Episode 6- A Man On A Mission | Former Airforce Officer Takes Flight into A New Endevour

Dan Bowen, a vice president and hospital administrator, shares his journey of transitioning from the military into the civilian sector. He emphasizes the importance of respecting the transition and preparing accordingly. He highlights the need for inclusive leadership, where team members are involved in decision-making and their opinions are valued. He also discusses the importance of vulnerability and asking for help when needed. Dan emphasizes the importance of resilience and the role it plays in leadership. He encourages leaders to be compassionate and empathetic, showing understanding and support to their team members. Welcome to Coachonomics Presents Podcast, a part of the ECS Network. I'm your host, Laura Perez-Ehrhardt. I'm a management consultant and executive coach, and I've been coaching and consulting executive leaders for over a couple of decades. My guest today is Dan Bowen. Dan is a vice president and hospital administrator for Health First Cape Canaveral Hospital in Brevard County, Florida. In this role, Dan leads all nursing, ancillary, and support service operations, as well as collaborates with senior integrated delivery network and medical staff leadership. In addition to his administrative role and responsibilities, Dan also serves as the operational executive for all Health First emergency services. In this role, Dan collaborates with executive director leaders, medical directors, IBM leadership on initiatives related to patient safety, quality, efficiencies, growth, and stewardship for Health First's four emergency departments. Prior to all this, Dan served in the U.S. Air Force for more than 20 years. Over 15 of those years as healthcare administrator and flight commander, leading the Air Force's largest medical logistics operations. First of all, Dan, thanks so much for your service. So I'm going to just dive right into this. You have a pretty impressive and extensive background, and I leaned back watching you carve a notable career path for yourself. But one of the most striking elements about the military is that I know they invest in developing their troops' leadership capabilities. And I see this as a huge advantage coming into the civilian lives. But I also, being a military wife myself, that making that transition from military into civilian territory is not a cakewalk. And I know that listeners are intrigued to hear about your journey and story of how you made that leap. First of all, Laura, thank you so much for having me. So it's great to see you again, you know, an old dear friend and colleague and someone who definitely helped me with that transition, which I can talk about in a little bit. But, you know, the comment about leadership in the military, I felt confident in myself as a leader from what I was taught, you know, through many great leaders and mentors during my Air Force career. Even though I was in healthcare in the Air Force, which is probably kind of close to being the most similar thing into the civilian sector, if you look at the grand scheme of things for military operations, there's still several differences. One thing that I did do is take that transition very seriously. When I made the decision to retire, I started a year out and really tried to build, you know, use the network that I had built over my career, not only in the Air Force, but through the American College of Healthcare Executives and the partners I've made through that. So I think the first thing for those out there who are thinking about the transition is understand that it is difficult. Respect that fact and prepare accordingly. And even during that time you have transitioned, you have to give yourself the grace to understand that there's going to be things you don't know and give yourself the time to learn those things and ask the right questions. Digging more into it, you know, as I started that year approach, luckily I met Laura at one of the local chapter ACHE events. Luckily we hit it off and, you know, I was at that time I had made my decision and I asked her just straight out, I mean, would you be willing to mentor me and help me through the process? And she graciously agreed and we started that relationship. So understanding what that would look like from assisting me with a resume that made it, you know, go from military speak to civilian speak, prepping me for interviews, even what to wear, you know, that's the one thing about those folks out there. I never had to worry about that for 20 years, getting up and what to wear every day. It was pretty much picked out for me, which made it easy. But understanding what that, you know, the look part of that is important as well. And even advice on negotiating salary and understanding my worth. So that was all a big part. But soon as you, you know, I was lucky enough to interview, get selected. I started out as the director of supply chain with Health First. But knowing my passion for being in hospital operations, I missed it dearly. So I did perform well. That's the big thing is bloom where you're planted, do a good job, build those relationships within the system. Even, you know, as I was in supply chain, a role in hospital operations of the director of operations at Palm Bay presented itself. And I had to have that difficult conversation with my VP, had to walk in the office after about 11 months in the role and say, you know, I love the opportunity. I love it here. But I have to be honest with you. This is something I'm passionate about and I love your support. And, you know, people surprise you every day. He was so supportive and he even made a comment that he knew this day was coming at some point. So obviously, you know, luckily I performed well by doing that and moving several projects forward. He supported my role, made a phone call and got me an interview. And I was selected. But it all is the same thing in every day. You go to a PCS, you go to a new assignment, you've got to hit the ground running, building relationships, performing well. Understanding those differences and respecting that and giving yourself the time to understand. It is such a key part. So those folks that are out there thinking about that transition, you can do it. Don't be afraid of it, but respect it and do the work up front to allow yourself that time to make that successful transition. I do recall when we did meet at one of the California health care leaders affiliation and asked for me to coach you and mentor you, knowing that you were preparing to make that transition into future leadership. Let's talk about vulnerability because I know that that's not an easy path. And I know that there has had to have been a lot of points of vulnerability for you. Can you talk a bit about that? Sure. The initial vulnerability is leaving something that's comfortable. You know you get a paycheck, you have the benefits, and you're there. It's to say, I'm going to give that up and risk because there's no guarantee. And here's the thing about folks in the military. People can say thank you for your service, but they don't owe you a job. So some people kind of assume that, well, I'm a veteran. I should just hand it over. They don't owe you that. So understand that everything has to be earned. So I was definitely nervous. I was nervous about, you know, once I hit retirement and have some terminal leave and the retirement kicks in, am I going to get employment? I had a friend who assumed he would get hired right away. And nine months later, he was still looking for a job. And he was a commander of one of the groups. And that's a very difficult thing to see. But in my mind and in my heart, that person didn't prepare. And they assumed a lot. And they didn't consider themselves vulnerable. So I think I used that vulnerability and a little bit of fear, because I had a family to provide for, to prepare vigorously and making sure I was overprepared for every step of the process. My resume was going to be what was going to be looked at as appropriate and solid and someone they wanted for their company. I was ready for interview questions. And interview questions are different. People don't understand. You have to study yourself. Like when they ask, a lot of these are behavioral questions. Tell me about a time. Tell me a story. So you have to go back and understand that. So to recall those things in an interview is difficult. So you have to write down some of those examples and prepare. But I felt really good. So the vulnerabilities I felt, I kind of helped those out by preparing really well. But that is a vulnerability. You're going for something that's very secure and safe to a high risk, knowing that nothing's guaranteed when you press that button and leave the military. So I think using that vulnerability was kind of a driver for me. And having someone, not only yourself, but I knew a recruiter from Sutter that kind of helped me out. I was asking questions to as well and other areas where I know I can lean on people. But preparation helps vulnerability, I would say. Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. But you know what's sticking with me right now is what you said a few minutes ago is respecting the transition and know that it's going to be difficult, right? And also understanding your worth. Even though, you know, you're talking about, you know, when people are in military and they expect that they're going to get hired in the civilian world right away. As a matter of fact, I mentioned this to you and you and I some time ago had this conversation way back in the day around helping that employer connect the dots, why you're the best fit candidate for that position and connecting the dots from your skills, your knowledge, your expertise. And experience coming from military world. How does that translate into the work that we need you to do today? That is really, really important for folks to know out there. But the vulnerability component is a big part in it. Nothing is for certain. And just because you expect that they're going to offer you a job, that's not going to happen and that's not reality. Thinking, you know, just about a challenge while you've been making this transition, you've been growing your leadership legs. What's a challenge and a failure that you face and what was the lesson learned? Great example of that for sure. So, as I talked about leaving supply chain and going to the director of operations role, one of the things about that hospital, it had a significant turnover of leadership. I was coming into that facility, you know, after, you know, a mass, somewhat of a mass exodus. So, a lot of things had to be done, a lot of work, a lot of relationships. I had a great partner, a great nursing leader that was there, but it was kind of the two of us running the entire place as they were continuing to build that leadership team again. As a kind of a get-or-done, you know, whatever-it-takes kind of person, like I was, I jumped in, I started talking to every department, every person, talking to associates, understanding what needed to be done. And so, you know, I'm moving the needle. I'm talking to people and getting everything where it needs to be. So, after about six months, my supervisor at the time sent out, you know, a kind of a 360 evaluation to some of the subordinates and peers in the hospital. I got, you know, a ton of positive feedback, you know, which was great. Like, he gets stuff done, he does this, he was very responsive, he follows through, all the things you want to be, right? I want to be that, one of my previous leaders in the military called me their fire-and-forget guy, which was one of the best compliments I ever received. It's like, I can tell you something and then I know it's going to get done. I forget about even asking you because I know it's going to get done. So, I fired him. I thought that was such a cool thing. And I took it to heart because I want to be that person. But some constructive feedback came back as well. You know, most of them liked that I get things done. Others felt a bit intimidated of the speed that I did things. Sometimes I pushed too hard and I didn't include the team, like some of the people on the team, which, you know, I really took to heart. And it helped me understand part of my job is not to have all the answers. Part of my job is not to make all the decisions. Part of my job is to facilitate conversation and look around the room sometimes and understand there might be people who want to say something but don't feel, you know, that they can step in. And I need to, and that's what I've done since I've got that feedback. It's looking around and, Laura, I didn't hear from you. I know you have some, you know, your experience. I want to understand, like, what you feel we should be doing in this situation or how can your department assist. Understand, like, getting things done and moving the needle, if you don't include everybody and you don't really make it a we did this, a team did this. And it's not like I was looking for all the praise and glory. It's just I knew things had to be done. But if someone didn't give me that feedback at that time, it could have been 6, 12, 18 months of still doing that, thinking I was being successful but not really empowering and bringing in that team atmosphere. So I really took that to heart. And I, to this day, every time I go into a room, if I'm leading a meeting or whatever, I always make sure that everybody gets a chance to provide feedback. You know, they are valued in the organization. And I try to make it to where, like, the decision is coming from the table. It's not me. I mean, the great idea is out there somewhere. If you hire the good people, smart people, the idea is, the answer is in the room all the time. And I search for that answer. So that was really a great feedback. I'm so appreciative to that team for those folks that were honest with that. And I appreciate it. I talked about it. I talked about it in general because it's anonymous. The feedback's anonymous. But I said, thank you so much for all the feedback. And I'm going to do better. And I want you to call me on it when I'm not. Excellent. That's the best example I can think of. I think that's an awesome example. So what I heard you say is for those who are in leadership roles or are planning to become, you know, the future leaders and become future ready is make sure that you're inclusive. Make sure that you make your team members a part of the process. That's what I'm hearing you say. I'm also hearing you say is lean into them. Ask them questions. And I like that you did describe that it's not the leader's job to have all the answers. That is not realistic. What is realistic is you surround yourself with a team of highly knowledgeable folks that do have the answers. And it's a leader's job to lean into their teams to find those answers. And, Dan, this makes you a really good servant leader, but also a humble leader. And you know that it's not your job to have all the answers. It's your job to lead them. It's also letting them participate and have feedback, being able to voice their concerns, their opinions, their feedback. So as everybody is working on achieving the same goal, there's more harmony. There's more alignment and synergy. Right? Absolutely. So as a leader, how do you manage resiliency and how do you work through that as you bounce back from what you learned through this 360, which could have been catastrophic if that did not happen earlier? Absolutely. So first of all, your question about resiliency, you know, obviously my time in the military and the Air Force helped me with that core competency for sure. And that took many forms. You know, when you're deployed, you know, my six and a half months in Afghanistan, you know, it's a very hostile environment. You're working a lot of hours. You're tired. The stuff you're seeing in there, you do so much good, but the harm you see is a mental, emotional strain as well. So that resiliency, not just within yourself, but knowing when you need to talk to someone and lean on others. Resiliency to me is a team sport. Yes, I can be resilient, but part of that resiliency is knowing when you need help and when to ask for it. And it's okay to do that. Being vulnerable as a leader, telling a story like I've told that story to my entire team about getting that feedback. I want them to understand that it's okay to show that you're not always perfect. It's okay to show that I had to reach out for help. Because that's what you want. You don't want someone to drown and us not knowing about it, right? Get to the point where you're slightly struggling and you immediately go to one of your peers or ask for that help. We're all human. Give yourself the grace to fail. Fail fast, get back on the horse and keep going. And if you're never taking a risk or making a decision and you never fail that way, you're really failing the organization because you're keeping it stagnant. So part of as a leader is taking some risk. Targeted risk, but understand that not everything's 100%. You might try something that didn't work. Okay, regroup, tweak it, or try something totally different. It's okay to tell that story to your team too. And I think it's endearing. When I have my, you know, I've had bosses tell these stories and just been like, wow. I had no idea that she went through that. Because, you know, she's up there being the commander and everything's perfect and I'm this leader. But to understand as a human aspect to this and whether it's struggling in your personal life or having a failure at work, that resiliency that you display, you can also give people the power to understand when they see someone struggling and step in proactively. And team up to provide that resiliency and support. So that's something I will continue to have in my life, to be there to support others because it's needed. I mean, in healthcare, you've seen the last couple of years and what's it been. I mean, if we didn't learn resiliency through COVID, you know, I'm not sure what we learned. But it was some of the most emotionally draining, sad, busy, all the changes and the rules and regulations coming through. So if you didn't, you know, lock arms, you know, with your team and get everybody through it together, you know, it became a very difficult situation. So proud to be on the other side. And I'm not perfect and I still look for that way to get better in that realm and support others along that journey. Yeah. And having, you know, through your example and for you being a model, I think that it also helps you as a leader to build a resilient team, right? They're seeing you, it's like, wow, he's not perfect. He's our leader, but he's not perfect. He does have his flaws. And I'm sure that they respect that. And that's what helps a lot of these organizational leaders build resilient teams is because when things fall apart, when mass exodus, when you first started in this role, and learning how to pivot and learning how to lean into that resiliency to start building a new foundation to get people back on board, that's a lot of work. And it's never a one and done. But what I've heard you say is fail, fail fast, learn from those lessons. And I also heard, which I really like, is that you said, don't be afraid to ask for feedback. And I think that and that's where I'm talking about, you know, eating humble pie or being humble is that you never be afraid of asking for feedback. Yeah. See what'll stick. You know, you talk about your own failures or your own setbacks. But I also hear some compassion in there. So as a senior leader, how important is it for you to demonstrate compassion and empathy? I mean, I think it's paramount, to be honest with you. I mean, you don't have to step on people's toes or put them down to make yourself look better. Right. Whether it's, you know, you're talking to patients and families, associates, colleagues, senior leaders. Compassion and empathy says a lot about your character. You know, I try to look for those opportunities to show people the compassion, empathy, or mentor my team to view things from the other person's perspective. Even if it's, you know, sometimes people get in their silos in the hospital. Right. They understand what their department does, but they have a hard time understanding what the other one does. So, you know, one of the things that we like to do is have our team shadow in other departments and understand what they do. So if I'm in the emergency room, I send something to the lab and the lab takes, you know, 45 minutes to get the result in. The concept could be, what are they doing there? Are they taking breaks? Are they lazy? But for someone from the ED to go into the lab and watch the operations of what it takes when that sample comes in and to get accurate, timely results, it's amazing the empathy and compassion you have for your teammate in the hospital. Everybody has difficulties, whether it's within operations, within what's going on at home, per se. Like, there's a great empathy video that Cleveland Clinic put out, and I think everybody that I know has seen that. And it's, you know, there's no words in the video. It's just kind of like these thought bubbles of people walking through the hospital where it'll say, just found out my husband has cancer or just found out so-and-so died. So you don't know what someone is battling internally, no matter where you see them. So if you start from a place of compassion and empathy, you know, and understand, and then if you have that viewpoint, that's when you can see, and we talked about that resilience, you can almost see something in someone. If you get to know them very well and you create that very close team environment across the hospital, you can see that and where someone could use some help. But just in general, starting with a place from compassion and empathy, understanding everyone has, you know, operational barriers or things happening in their personal life, it just sets the tone to be, to give some grace and understanding and ask why or ask some more probing questions. And not just go into accusation mode or someone's failing automatically or think I'm the worst of someone. You know, that's something that, you know, I really tried to learn as I went from that get-or-done, no excuses kind of thing we talked about in my transition. That's part of that. That empathy and compassion is part of that. And so, you know, going from, you know, the Air Force core values and seeing the values of health first, which is eye care, integrity, compassion, accountability, respect, and excellence. When I first looked at those, I went right into, I looked at integrity, I looked at excellence, right, respect for leadership. What really triggered me and as I started looking into those, it was the compassion. Where do I need to do better in these values? Not just which one of these values speaks to me the most or you're going to go to your comfort zone. I do everything right. I get it on time. I want to be excellent. That's what I want to be. Or I have integrity. I always do things right when no one's looking. But to me, I kind of gravitated to the compassion piece. Can I be more compassionate? Can I be better in that realm? Can I give people the benefit of the doubt? Can I find the best in people and give them the ability to shine? So I think that just was really one of those things that I needed to work on the most. So it's very important to me to continue that. And then as I coach and mentor my leaders is to tell them how important that piece is. And it creates a better culture overall. If everybody's thinking about the other person and what that is, it just creates a culture of everybody has a value. We understand where they're coming from. And it's a culture of support. You know, I really like that kind of a major focus of yours. What that does, what that tells me, Dan, and just listening to you, what comes to my mind is when someone takes the time and someone truly comes forward with a sense of compassion and empathy, it breaks barriers. The analogy or the story that you said that, you know, when one of your team members goes into the lab or the pharmacy to see how something's broken down, they see the world through somebody else's lens. They see the process. So when they take the time to understand what someone else is going through, what's going on in their world, just gives them a different perspective of the person's process or what they're going through in life, whether it's related to work or on a personal level. Or on a personal realm. Right. And I've seen for myself as I've been in these larger organizations, whether it's health care, biotech or high tech, when compassion is being displayed and demonstrated, it breaks down some pretty major walls. I love it. Thank you. What piece of advice for those listeners out there right now that are young professionals or even those that are more seasoned but are aspiring or even still growing their leadership legs? What piece of advice, relevant advice, would you share with our listeners today? That's a great that's a great question. So, you know, there's several things that I would that I would share for sure. Number one, relationships, relationships, relationships. You know, that needs to be a focus, whether that's across the organization, understanding like who to go to and make those connections with our medical staff, having those conversations with physicians. That's a skill that I've learned since I've been in the civilian sector. I spent a lot of time with our medical staff and our medical staff leaders. That creates an environment where you're that person that people want to reach out to. They know they can pick up the phone. They know they can, you know, they can call Dan. He's going to be willing to assist. He'll be there for them. And he's going to help. He's going to get the right people at the table to help. Be a good partner and a team player. That is such a big deal. And understanding that, like I said, we've talked about this quite a bit already tonight. It's not just about you. Get the right team and the answer is always going to be in the room. Be willing to take on more. You know, the old adage of no good deed goes unpunished. That's a good that's a very good thing, right? If you're doing well and someone says, I think he or she is ready to take on more or here's something interesting, be willing to go out of your comfort zone to do something like that. You know, when I first came in and I was running hospitals, the first service line they gave me was orthopedics. And so I had to jump into a surgical service line, have conversations with surgeons, have cool different projects like, you know, whether it was like our total joint spend or what it was like for block time and then look at strategy for growth and hiring new. You know, when they first brought that to me, it was like, wow, I don't know anything about that. But I'm like, well, how cool is that? I guess I get to learn it. And so then they gave me the emergency departments. Same thing. Let's go. Like, let me just dig into it and get to know it. Now I'm having the time of my life. I got really good people in there who want to make positive change. Those are the big things for me is when you look for those opportunities to grow, understand what you don't know, but be flexible and willing to do those different things. I think that's such a good thing to have is that willingness to learn, ability to be open to all these different things. It starts from building those relationships. You can't do anything until you do your current job well. I tell everybody, bloom where you're planted. Get in there, do a good job. And I tell you what, you know, from my growth, going from supply chain to director of operations, 18 months later, they brought me into an office and said, we want you to run the hospital. So I ran the hospital the best way I knew how. Learning, growing, understanding what I don't know, be willing to learn and listening to people and driving positive change. And they came and said, hey, would you be willing to run another hospital while we work on a transition of a leader? So I ran two hospitals on two different occasions for about eight months one time and seven months another time. So they allowed me to branch out and have leadership responsibility over two of the four hospitals on two different occasions. We want you to take over the ED. No one's going to come to you unless you're doing your current job really well and someone that's a partner. So whenever we give feedback to leaders, and we've done these in like talent reviews, looking at managers and directors for next steps, there's always been two things that'll hold someone back. Number one, you're siloed. You only care about your department or your stuff. You reach out for help to help your task and your objectives, but then you're not a partner and you don't reach out and collaborate across the departments. So always be a collaborative leader. Always reach out to other leaders within the hospital to create that collaborative environment. And number two is your ability to accept feedback. The ones who can't take the feedback or get really upset or negative as someone's trying to coach them, that is seen as a clear identifier that someone's not ready for the next step. So it's a gift. Accept it. Accept it graciously and use that opportunity as a springboard to be a better leader. So don't be in a silo and graciously accept feedback and use it to make positive change. Yeah, great advice. What I see at times is people too eager too soon and make that leap and they fail. What you had mentioned earlier is how folks do get eager and instead of staying put in a position while they continue to grow those legs, whatever that is, and learn the job and do the job well before they take that leap. It can be disastrous. I'm just going to summarize what you said is take the time to build those meaningful relationships. You said relationship, relationship, relationship. But if you're going to do it, do it well and make it meaningful. Make sure that you know who your go-to people are when you're building those relationships. Be that go-to person and partner. That is so huge because if you're going to be a part of a team, even outside of your team, make sure that you show up with relevant information and you're sharing connections or you're bringing folks together as you've done, Dan, is extremely powerful. People will respect you and they will lean into you more. They will see you as a source. So also I heard you say is be willing to go outside of your comfort zone. And I know some people just lose their breath or they just become overwhelmed with the thought of taking that leap. And I know it can be scary. But so, Dan, it's okay to be afraid, right? Absolutely. Yeah, it's okay to be nervous. And motivate you. Absolutely. And then finally, the one thing, another thing that you said is always be a collaborative leader. Demonstrate that collaboration and take feedback as a guest. Talk to those trusted advisors or if you have a coach, you know, that can say, hey, you can turn this around. Let's talk about how to turn this around, that negative into a positive. And there's a couple of other things, too. As far as, you know, lessons I've learned, it's kind of influenced my style. You know, we talked about those previously, but there's also a few more as I kind of work through, you know, coming into this organization. Stakeholder management is a skill, right? Understanding who needs to be at the table. Absolutely. So you're good at that when you develop those relationships. So, okay, this is a project involving A, B and C. Oh, that's going to touch this part of the organization, so I need to contact this person. That's going to touch this department, so they need to be at the table. There's nothing worse than going through a project, creating a process, and a key component is left out. So, number one, you really didn't get the process right if someone didn't have a chance to provide feedback and it impacts them. And how are they going to feel? Do they feel valued that you didn't think about them and their department through this process that clearly impacts them? So, being able to ask those questions. Who are we missing? This is who I think should be at the table. Who's not at the table? Perfect. Thank you for that feedback. So glad you mentioned that. Relationships, relationships, relationships we talked about. Some people only focus on the vertical. Who they report to and who's under their purview. Those horizontal, your peers across the organization is just as important. Some people just focus on who can get them somewhere or, you know, what that might be. But your peers across the organization are just as important. They're the ones you're going to reach out there to do the work. So, you've got to build that horizontally, not just vertically. And the ability to tailor your leadership style to the individual. It's not cookie cutter. I've had directors that I've hired that needed a little bit more direction and they wanted to kind of understand stuff before they put themselves out there. But I've had ones that said, I'd love to just let me go. Let me go shadow in the department, talk to people, understand and watch their process, and then come to you with questions. I think both are fine. You know, so whatever you need as a leader that I can make you better. So, tailor that to who that is. Figure out what they need at the very beginning. What kind of recognitions are they like? What kind of, they need that constant feedback. What kind of, do they want to be able to get, you know, open door policy? Whatever that looks like. But understand everybody's different and you've got to tailor yourself to them to help them, you know, blossom in their role. Yeah, absolutely. Situation leadership. Big arm nut. Yeah. If you wrote a letter to your younger self today, what advice would you give? What a great question. One of the things is my younger self. So, as a young kid, I was very into athletics and I struggled with academics. And so it was always that, am I smart enough to do things? Do I have it? Or am I just this kind of this dumb jock going up? So, I always had to work five times as hard to do things when it came to academics. So, what I would say is you have a lot to offer in this world. Don't be afraid to go after what you want. Even though you may struggle in certain areas to include academics, you do have those natural leadership abilities. Get the most out of people. I was a captain of my teams in high school. And so I really didn't equate that to, like, actually being a leader until I looked back on those times. And to bring people in and coach them and motivate them and, you know, provide recognition and be that captain. So, I had those skills from early on. And, you know, continue to look for opportunities to join teams, to be a team member first, understand what it's like to do that role, and then lead teams to drive positive change. Opportunities in your life will present themselves to you that are outside of your comfort zone. Graciously accept those opportunities because they're going to make you better. Look for those leaders that you'd like to emulate and don't be afraid to ask them to mentor you. Most of them will graciously accept that, but it is an agreement on two parties of what those roles are going to be. In addition, make it a priority to nourish those relationships that make you and the people around you better. And that includes at work and at home. And finally, listen to your gut. You don't always do things right, but you will always do the right thing. I liked it. Thank you, Dan, so much. This time has passed too quickly. I hope that I know that our listeners out there are finding this information and your insights extremely valuable. So, thanks again for your time, Dan, and all the best. Thank you for the opportunity. It was a pleasure. Take care, Laura. We've reached the end of our podcast, and we hope the insights set sparks of inspiration. If you like what you've learned, share my podcast with your friends. You can also find me on my LinkedIn under Laura Perez Earhart or my website at Tiffany Consulting Solutions. Much gratitude and appreciation to my listeners. Until next time, be well and stay safe.