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The Wednesday Match Play podcast discusses golf fashion, player interviews, golf getaways, and reviews golf equipment like the Callaway Big Bertha driver. Email communication effectiveness is declining, with text messaging showing higher engagement rates. Member Text offers text marketing for golf clubs, boosting event attendance and member engagement. Cap Patrol is a system for fair play in golf, tracking 43 data points per player to ensure accurate handicaps. George Sterner explains its benefits and features on the podcast. Text and video resources on Capitol's website provide overviews and tutorials for clubs interested in implementing the system. Welcome to the Wednesday Match Play, your weekly connection to the biggest and best brands in golf. On this show you will learn more about the latest golf fashion trends, hear from LPGA and PGA Tour players, get advice on planning your next golf getaway, and much more. Broadcasting live from Palm Desert, California, now on the T, Rikki Potts. Dave got his hands on the new Callaway Big Bertha driver, but is this the driver for him? I don't think so, maybe the worst driver he's hit since he started shooting videos. There are a lot of reasons he doesn't like this driver, like the price. Have you hit this club? Dave is a fan of Callaway, but he really has nothing good to say about this club. Head over to Let'sPlayThrough.com to watch his full review. Studies show that email communication is becoming less and less effective. The average open rate is now around 25%. It's a major concern across clubs and businesses across the country. Now imagine if you had a 98% open rate, what would happen to your member and customer engagement? How many more attendees do you think would come to your events? Well it's possible, at least 98% possible. It's just not with email, it's with text messaging. I'm Justin Barrett, the founder of Member Text, and we are the leading text marketing platform for golf and country clubs, and our clients will be the first to tell you their membership reads their text messages. Our platform is simple to set up and easy to use. You can get a text message out to your members in seconds, and the results are phenomenal. I hear from clubs all the time about how their events are filling up faster than ever, how their member engagement has increased significantly since they started texting their members about specific interests that are important to them. If you'd like to include this tool in your marketing this year, check out membertext.net and schedule a free demo. We'll walk you through some incredible case studies on how clubs have revitalized their engagement with our platform. Again it's www.membertext.net or text club to 71441 to see how it works. Cap Patrol is a handicapped committee management and peer review system designed to promote fair and honest play for everyone. On this episode of the Wednesday Match Play podcast presented by Member Text, George Sterner gives us an overview of Cap Patrol, talks about the importance of collecting data, reviews all of the features and benefits of this app, and talks about 43 data points being tracked on each player. He also talks about the cost, their features in Golf Digest and Golf Magazine, and their pace of play technology. This is an educational conversation and an honor having George on this show. Let's tee off. George, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the Wednesday Match Play podcast presented by Member Text. Great to be here as well. Looking forward to the conversation. Well, I was just telling you before we started recording here that I am brand new to Cap Patrol. I've never used it. I hit balls just a little bit ago and you'd think I was new to the game of golf too because it was not a pretty sight after taking four months off, but we just started using Cap Patrol this season here at the Lake Country Club. What is it and how does it work? I've never heard of it. Just give me a 10,000 foot overview of what this is all about. Well, the overview is according to World Handicap System guidelines, all member clubs are charged with reviewing for peer review all of their players' handicap data. Obviously, with the dearth of data, with hundreds of players and thousands of rounds being played at most clubs, it's very difficult for a handicap committee to really review all of the data. What Cap Patrol does is it does that for them. It assembles all the data, runs it through an algorithm that I invented and gives the handicap committee the data they need to perform the peer review that the World Handicap System would like them to do. How long did that take you? Was that just something you sat down and figured out you wanted to do or that seems like quite the process to come up with the math to be able to make that happen? The origin of the idea was I belong to an old Donald Ross course in Ohio and the club came to me and asked me for my help for a few reasons. First one being I have a data analytics background in sports, so I understand how data can be used or applied to help or address an issue. Secondly, I've been a scratch player most of my whole life, so I understand what players do on and off the golf course. And lastly, I've held every position at our club from president on down to handicap chairman, so I know what a delicate issue this is at clubs. What I did was I downloaded about 10 years of GIN, which is the USGA Handicap System data on all our players, about 10 years of tournament results from all of our events, as well as all the research I could find by the USGA and others. After working on it for about 14 months, I was able to create an algorithm that will monitor every player at the club. It will let you know how a player is playing to their index, if there is any data discrepancies against all the other norms that I've found in the data with all players. And it'll help the handicap committee know if a player is playing at their true ability or demonstrated ability and if their index matches that. Where are you based and how long have you been doing this, and do you have any others working for you here at Capitrol? Yes, I'm based in Cincinnati, Ohio. I was born and raised here. And I have nine people now working with me on this. And it's a passion, obviously, of mine. And I really just did it out of just my love of the game and wanting to help my club. And obviously, it's not a problem that is unique to my home club. And most all clubs have this issue to some extent. And even if they don't have the issue, being able to really monitor all players and being able to answer the question on the other side of the coin from players or members of the club, letting them know that they don't have a problem, it's just as important. It's just knowing if you have an issue and how to address it, as well as if you don't have an issue and being able to tell other players of the club that you're on top of it and you know that the club is in good shape when it comes to the peer review piece of the handicap system. Well, I've worked in a lot of clubs in my journey, and the club that I'm at now, I mean, we've got over 500 golf members that play golf on a regular basis, so this is important. It's almost obvious to me why a club would need this, but from your side, why does a club need Capitol? Well, I think that, you know, at least in the data that I have seen in working with all the clubs I work with currently, you know, it's a very small portion of players that are, you know, winning more than what our statistics, or as I like to say, are on the podium more than they statistically should be. And, you know, clubs just did not have an efficient way to monitor that. And also, doing it for the 98% of the club that is doing it the right way, and, you know, helping those clubs then, you know, in an objective and fair way, hold better events and more equitable events. So that's the main driver of what Capitol can do for a club, is it gives you that third party look using data, so it's much more difficult for a player to be upset, you know, that it's not a personal issue, it's every player at the club is going through the exact same process, and I think that's very helpful, you know, when you're dealing member to member. There is a three-minute summary video on your website. What am I going to learn from watching that? I mean, in three minutes, how am I going to get an overview if I don't know what Capitol is? And there's also a 20-minute tutorial for managing the Capitol platform. Can you talk me through both those videos and what I'm going to learn in the summary and how I can benefit from watching the 20-minute video? Yes, on my website, I have a three-minute overview video, which many clubs use to send out to all of their members when they first start the program as a general explanation of what they're trying to accomplish and why Capitol was needed. And the basic overview is, once again, the Handicap Committee's job is to make sure that the events at the club are held on an equitable basis along with, you know, the charge from the USGA and the World Handicap System to make sure that the players are peer-reviewed. So, in the three-minute video, it's a basic overview of why the club is doing it and how it generally works, which it, you know, focuses on players that are, as I once again like to say, on the podium more than they statistically should be. So that's what the short video will do. The longer version will obviously give a much more in-depth explanation of how the software works and what the program can do for a club. This highlights many of the features that, you know, golfers have known that they would like to monitor, but have never had the ability to do it before of Capitol. Capitol tracks 43, and that is a big number, different criteria on golfers. And I wish we did, but we don't have time to go over that full list. But what are some of the key things being tracked? So, the 43 data points that we follow on each player are really under five main categories. Those categories are the player's high and low index over the previous 12 rolling months. That gives the committee a very good feel for that player's ability as well as the volatility of their index. And it also compares that player's current index to their low. So, it tells the committee how poorly a player is playing off of their low. So, what it could mean, just looking at that data alone, it would show you that a player is playing, you know, has the ability to play much better than where they are currently. The second, I'll say, silo of data is home scores versus away scores. Many times, players that, you know, do choose to, I'll say, manage their index, many times will turn in away scores much higher than home because a club has a difficult enough time tracking what a player is turning in and recording at home, much less when they're away. So, it tracks how a player turns in, plays at home versus away versus the norm at the club. As an example, at my club, it's like 3.5% worse away than we do at home. So, we get that norm at every club we work with, and we compare our players to that norm. We also compare them to other players at the club with the same ability, and players at other clubs with the same ability, and it gives a way to monitor a player who could be turning in away scores that are much higher than what they're turning in at home. The third silo of data is competition rounds. We'll grab a player's competition rounds over the previous 24 rolling months. Those competition rounds will give us an index of how a player plays in tournament golf versus how they play in casual play. As we find less than 2% of players will consistently play better in tournament rounds as they will in casual rounds, obviously, this is something we want to follow closely. The fourth set of data that we'll be looking at is we tie electronically to a club's key sheet. We will get fed to us who's playing with who and when. So, as an example, if four of us would play today, we get that fed electronically to us. We continue to check in-gen in the handicap system and make sure all four players have turned in a score for that round. We keep track of that by player who is and who isn't turning in scores to promote that. In fact, when we initially hook up key sheet systems to new customers, the average turned-in percentage for our customers is around 51%. After a year of being on the program, it jumps to about 86%. So, it's been very successful. The other part of what we do, once again, on the peer review side, if that same foursome is playing and we're checking to make sure they're turning in scores, what we also do the next day, we send a notification to all the four players in the group sharing with each player what everybody has turned in for a round score. So, you'll have a peer review and a testing of every round played at your club every day. And as I like to say, you know, if I shoot 73 today, it's highly unlikely I'm going to turn in something different than that knowing my three friends are going to see it tomorrow morning. And then the fifth set of data that we do look at is results from the events being played at the club. So, the club is recording who comes in the top five or if someone won their flight in their events. And we're obviously keeping track of that. There's been a lot of research done on the topic. And just one, you know, anecdotal piece of data, which is I find very interesting, over a two-year period playing in the normal amount of events, a player should not be able to come in more than first and fourth in two net events over a two-year period. Anything beyond that's not statistically reasonable. So, the algorithm is following this along with all the other data. And the outcome of that is what we have is what we call a cap score. And that cap score works much like a credit score. And every player at the club starts off at a cap score of 100. And they're gaining and losing points in all these 43 data points under these five areas. And once a player's cap score gets down to a certain level, the system will highlight those players for closer review of a reduction by the handicap committee. Speaking of handicaps, I'm playing in a match here in a few days. And my handicap, because I haven't played enough golf over the last 12 months to change said handicap, because the course that I was up prior to the Lakes Country Club closed for a renovation. And I didn't play much. And my handicap currently says 5.8. I'm probably playing to about a 12 or a 14. So, that should be a fun weekend. I hit some balls. Like I said, the first 10 or 12 were pretty much shanks. So, it's going to be a pretty fun weekend, speaking of handicaps. Great. But not as much fun for your partner or is it an individual event? So, I'm playing with our longtime director of golf, who is – he's a fantastic player. And he played today, actually, in the Pro Challenge and played with my boss. And I thought about 14-hole winning is going to shoot his age. I'm pretty sure that we're going to get – I don't know, because the two ladies that we're playing, I mean, 25 and 27 handicaps. So, we get – there's a lot of strokes being handed out here and a couple of shots to hold. But we're playing a format. I couldn't even tell you the name of the format. ParPoint, I think is what it's called. I've never played it before. But I don't know if you're familiar with that format. But it sounds fun. And it's not really stroke play. It is. But if I hit a ball out of bounds and my partner is in the middle of the fairway, I don't really care what I finish on that hole because he could potentially take the hole and I don't have to worry about it. And that's the reason, you know, I think that golf is one of the greatest games out there. It's, you know, you can get on a plane and go fly anywhere almost, or you can anywhere, get off the plane and find somebody or run into someone and have a fair and equitable match. You know, because of the handicap system. And there is no other sport, you know, anywhere that has been able to do that. And, you know, that's what makes it so great. And so, you know, my main motivation was to, as I say, I love the game. And, you know, I was tired of people at clubs ruining events for the 98%. And, you know, that was my motivation for Capitol. And, you know, it's been a ton of fun. So how much does it cost? And can I get a free trial or do I have to commit a month or to a year? Yeah, the way it works is we give clubs a 60-day free trial. During that 60 days, they can, you know, we'll load all their actual data of their players. They can kick the tires to see if they like it. If they don't, they can cancel at any time at no cost or obligation at all. If they do decide to move on with the birdie package, which is the monitoring of players posting as well as the algorithm, it's $6 per player per year to a maximum cost of $3,600 if they have over 600 gym members. So it's a fairly economical, you know, pricing model. We have an app that goes with it as well. It has a ton of great and fun information, nothing accusatory in it. It's just there for fun. And, you know, the clubs really, really enjoy it. Par, birdie, eagle, I would pick 18 pars on Saturday if I could. Tell me more about the different packages being offered. Yeah, the par version of the program is just the monitoring of players posting scores or not. And we have reminders to post emails to automatically go out and, you know, the sharing of the peer review of what's being turned in to promote all players turning in all their scores and also turning in those scores accurately. And that's the par product. And the birdie product is that plus the algorithm of monitoring all the players and letting you know if players' data is out of line with what the norm is, if there could be a problem with that player's data or, you know, success in events. And then there's the eagle product, which is both that score posting, monitoring the algorithm, and then gamification. It does things like gives you odds on the players playing in events, you know, that are playing in an upcoming event. It'll give you the favorites in the event and things like that. And in fact, I ran it at a club as a test and the system was able to pick the winner and seven of the other top 10 players that ended up finishing in the event. That's pretty good testament to the algorithm that you've developed here. That's incredible. Yeah, it was great. It was fun. So, the app has been featured in Golf Digest, Golf Magazine. Are you out there looking for that exposure or did it just come to you based on what you've created? No, I think there's a, you know, I'd like to think there's a buzz in the industry from our current customers that people are hearing about it. We actually did our first survey of our customer base and over 90% of the current customers said that they would sign up for the program for another three years. So, it's been very well received. Everybody knows that there's an issue out there and they'd like to address and be part and they'd like to address and be part of the solution. And so, I think that some of the publications you mentioned and others are hearing about it and, you know, which is great. You said that you're a scratch player, which is just that's often good for you for doing and maybe giving some tips before Saturday's tee time. You're a good player. What's your home course and how much do you get to play? Well, my home course is Hyde Park Country Club in Cincinnati, Ohio. I get to play, you know, my normal, I play about 40 rounds a year. You know, I really enjoy practicing, to be perfectly frank, even more than I like playing. It's a little easier on the time constraints and I just love the process of, you know, almost like working with data of trying to find it, the dirge as Ben Hogan used to say. So, I really enjoy that quite a bit. You know, I did hear when I got into the golf part of the business that if you want to play the least amount of golf in your life, get into the golf business. And so, I think they're right. But I have had the opportunity to play some great golf courses, you know, with the connections and clubs that are on the program. And, you know, everybody in the industry is great and, you know, they're always very hospitable and, you know, asking if I'd like to play and come down. And so, it's been a ton of fun. So, what is the best course you've played to date? And what is one course you haven't played that sits atop your bucket list? I had the opportunity, you know, to play Pine Valley this year for the first time, which was, you know, a lot of fun. I got to take my son with me, which made it even better. So, you know, since I started Capitrol, that would probably be the first bucket list golf course that I had not played. I have played many of the top courses, you know, before that, but that was one that I had not ever played that, you know, was definitely up there. How many clubs are you currently working with? And who is your main point of contact with the club? Is it the director of golf, the head pro, the chair of the handicap committee? Yeah, we're monitoring 1,100 different clubs nationally. We now have about 20 clubs internationally. It's starting to spread outside of the U.S. But the main point of contact in most instances is the golf professional, director of golf, golf professional. But many times also, members will hear about it from other clubs members talking about how they're on the program now and things like that. And it'll bubble up from the membership to the golf professional or the handicap committee. And they, at times, follow up. But, you know, I'd say at least 80% of the time, it comes from the golf professional or director of golf is my initial contact. But when we do get on the phone to start talking about the program and explaining it and how it all works and so on, the most golf professionals will include the handicap chairman or handicap committee to listen to the overview of the product as well, because obviously, you know, they're quite involved in that as, you know, in administering the program and so on. What sort of support do you offer? Let's say that I'm using this app and it goes down, and there's some things that I think that might make it better, easier for me as the operator. What kind of support do you offer? You know, as I said, we do have a support team of customer service folks and so on, that, you know, we try and get back to everybody the same day. But usually within a day, you know, the one thing I've really tried to focus on since, you know, we have grown so much over the first couple of years is I've really tried to keep as much of that in my own hands. You know, answering questions, talking to the clubs, answering their, you know, what's the processes and procedures that work best at most clubs and so on. So, I really try to keep my time as free as I can, that I can handle most of those calls. But obviously, with as many as we're getting to, that's difficult. But I do have a great team, you know, of customer service reps that are helping quite a bit on that. And we're also creating a lot of content. You know, one-minute videos that will be all over the site that people can click on. And it's me explaining what each of the data points means or how to run a report or what to look for. You know, imparting as much of that knowledge I'm learning from all of the clubs and all of the committees, you know, and sharing those protocols with other and new clubs that are on the program. Four hours and 10 minutes is our pace. And pay-per-play seems to be an issue of every club in the world. And I see that you have pay-per-play tracking coming soon. When can we expect that? And how will that work? Yeah, we've got a new version of the back office system coming out before the end of the year. It's got about 75 enhancements included in it. You know, things like guest tracking. So, when you're having a member guest, you can also run an analysis of the guests that are coming in to play. You know, things like that. We're also coming out with a new app in the first quarter of 2023. As part of that, we're looking at adding the pace of play. It's a pretty simple process. You know, we get said, as I mentioned earlier, from the teams, who's playing with who and what time they play. Obviously, you can geolocate players that are using the app and know that they're walking off the 18th green and things like that. So, we can keep tracking. And you can also, you know, deduce players that aren't on the app and things like that. If you knew they took off, you know, 10 minutes after a group that just finished and the other group behind them just finished, you can assume that they're in the middle of those two groups, you know, and figure out pace of play. But once again, you know, all the stuff in the app is just there for fun. And we're adding a lot of fun games and things like that, leaderboards that you can create with all the data that we have. So, let's say an operator is listening to this and they want to learn more and get started. What's the timeline from, yes, let's learn more about this and activate this in our club from the time that they make contact until the time that it's being utilized with their facility. What's that timeline look like? Yeah, most clubs that I talked to, you know, initial conversation of explaining, it's about a 20-minute overview of the program that I go through with them and answer their questions. I then send them a copy of the agreement showing the free trial. And most clubs from the day that they sign the agreement to start the trial, they're up and running within about 10 days. And when I say that, when they're up and running, that means up and running with all the historical data as well. So, literally that 10th day when we give them their first report, that report is if they've been on the system for years because we're grabbing so much data going back, it's ready to use day one. Golf is a simple game that has become too complicated and too expensive. But it doesn't have to be. With a modern, inclusive, and refreshing approach to the game, Styx offers award-winning Unisex clubs with a minimalist design, available in five lengths, three flexes, and two colors, including their signature all-black woods, irons, wedges, and putter. More importantly, Styx can get you out the door with a 9, 11, or full 14-piece set for the same price as a driver from some of the biggest brands in golf. Learn more by visiting them at Styx.golf or at StyxGolfGear on all social media platforms. Where can folks at home learn more about Capitol? Well, you know, the best is our website at www.capitol.com. You can watch some videos. There's a full-length video explaining the complete program. You can schedule an appointment to talk to me. You know, if someone at your club would like to learn more about it or your golf professional, if you pass this information along to them or handicapped chairman or anything like that, you can schedule that appointment on my website. But it gives a great overview, we feel, on the website and how it goes. But it's always better to obviously get on the phone and answer particular questions because, you know, each club is unique in, you know, their culture and how they want to handle things. And I can help with that a little bit by sharing what other clubs have done. Are you involved with anything like the PGA Show or the PGA itself as an organization, the CMAA? Are you involved with any of these other outside organizations to help spread the word? I mean, I could totally see this being shared with club managers within the golden state chapter of CMAA here in California, let alone in the nationwide organization. Yes, I work with PGA Magazine has a program called the PGA Ambassador Program. And, you know, I'm a sponsor of the PGA Ambassador Program, which is a group of 800 golf courses around the country that share, you know, best practices and things like that. And they've been great and it's been extremely helpful. And then I work with some PGA sections as well that have been very helpful. You know, it's really word of mouth. We've not really done any advertising to speak of at all. And, you know, just continue to get more and more calls every day. And it's been a lot of fun. Well, I actually sit on the education committee for the golden state chapter of CMAA. And we do a lot of education. I'm talking weekly or biweekly webinars. And I think that this is something that may need to be at least introduced to the managing director. And I'm happy to do that. And I think that from a CMAA perspective, I mean, that's only club managers and people from the private club world. And I think that that would be a key target demographic for you. And I'd be happy to make that introduction as time goes by, if you think there'll be value. Maybe even you doing potentially a webinar with the golden state chapter. Absolutely. You know, I've done that before. It's been extremely helpful and successful on getting the word out to clubs and, you know, clubs starting the program. And, you know, as I have kiddingly but always say, I can come out as well as long as there's a few holes played before the event. I'm more than willing to show up in person as well. Well, we do the majority of our education via Zoom. But if you want to like take your camera out to the course and play your own course, that'd be fine too. There you go. There you go. We have talked about a lot. This time is flying by. I don't think we just started. We've been talking for half an hour. And this is incredible. But what else haven't we talked about? Tell me more about Capitol. What are some of the things that I haven't mentioned thus far? You know, I think the only thing that we really haven't talked about is, you know, the future product of what's going on. And, you know, the real focus of what I want to add from here forward on the system that the golf professional and handicap committees are using is I'm really trying to focus and help the committees run their handicap committee in a consistent manner in block step with what the United States Golf Association and the World Handicap System would like them to do. You know, that's the real void, I think, of what I'm trying to fill is, you know, all of these golf courses and clubs all want to do the right thing. And they have great, you know, people volunteering for these positions on the handicap committee or golf committees. But, you know, there's not a lot of material out there on how to, you know, set up a committee and actually run the committee and letters and education and things like that that have all been put together in a piece of software. United States Golf Association and their handicap guidelines is a ridiculously helpful guideline to, you know, to get things going. But, you know, the implementation of that sometimes can be a lot for, you know, a volunteer. So what I'm trying to do is really, you know, get a protocol or a system in place that, you know, if a committee changes, you know, leaders from one year to the next, it's still run the same way in a consistent manner, which is what, you know, the players want as well. So on that end of things, I'm really excited about all the stuff we're adding to help handicap committees. And then on the app side of things, just the dearth of data that's out there that is so much fun, you know, the initial version of the app, people have really had a lot of fun with, you know, it's once again just geared for enjoyment and not to call anybody out or anything like that. There's no data in there that's doing that. It's just fun data and fun games and things like that. And like I was saying, you know, favorites and events and things like that to just kind of, you know, as I say, have fun with your friends. That's what the app is about. I'm extremely excited about the next version. It's being built right now and, you know, really excited about how it's come out. And can't wait to get that, you know, out to the market in the spring. So that's what's really, you know, most exciting for me is to continue to add and help the handicap committee and add some fun for players at the clubs as well. Who is in your dream foursome and where are you playing? And you've mentioned a name of a club that I don't normally put on this list, that you can't pick, Pine Valley. But Pine Valley and Augusta, you can't choose those. But who's in your dream foursome? And besides those two, where are you playing? Well, it's kind of funny you say that because I played with my father, you know, at Augusta and I played with my son at Pine Valley. And so my dream foursome would be my father, my son and Bobby Jones. And we would play at St. Andrews. And Bobby Jones, just because, you know, obviously, you know, everything he did for the game early on and how he played it. But I would love to, I've always loved, you know, reading about the older great players. And I would love to see how today's equipment, today's technology, where we play from or where we would play from, you know, in the days he played. You know, what that really would be like, you know, seeing, you know, him shoot 65 at Marion or something like that. I would just love to see how that, how that happened. And I'd love to see how my game and, you know, very, very small sense stacked up to, you know, some of the greats. Where is the best place for folks listening at home to learn more about cat patrol? Yeah, I think, you know, I'm talking to clubs about it that are on the program, you know, to really see how it's been implemented, but going also to, you know, the website, you know, it's got a great, a great amount of information. I think you can really get a good feel for how it can help and how it operates in a fair and equitable manner. So I'm Tiger's biggest fan. We haven't talked about him much. And this is a multi-part question. And the more I ask this question, the longer the question gets. So bear with me as I ask it. But first question, do you think he breaks Jack's record? If not, does it even matter? If he does, where does he break it? And as it relates to his legacy, what means more, the wins or the majors? Well, if I could take those in order, no, he will not break Jack's record. You know, number one, you know, as I like to point out as a data person, everybody's, well, he's at 15 and Jack's at 18. Well, that's 80% of the way. So I don't think he's got another 20% in him to win another three majors. You know, I was extremely surprised he won it in 19, but, you know, as most people were, but I don't think there's any way he's got three more majors in him. Does it matter? No, I don't think it matters. But I also, you know, don't think it means that he's not the best player of all time. You know, I'm partial to Jack being the best player of all time because not only, you know, you know, my humble opinion were the 18 majors, but the 30 plus top three finishes, as well as the, you know, the great players he played against at the time, the Watson's and Trevino's and Steve's and excuse me, and Raymond Floyd's and so on in the world. I understand that the depth of the tour is much, much deeper today than it was back then. But there were some great players back then that Jack had to beat, you know, to win those 18 majors. So, you know, I've always been partial to Jack being the greatest player of all time, but it's not like it's not close. That's for sure. Now, you said the most impactful player of all time. You know, I think Tiger's definitely there and maybe Arnie's even second. You know, but, you know, he's been great for the game, obviously, since 97 and bursting on the scene at Augusta National. Do you think that the wins record, if you were to get, I guess that's kind of a, I need to separate that. So you have now inspired me to separate that into another question as a part of the closing questions here. But he's tied for the wins record. Do you think he gets one more of those? And right, wrong or indifferent, if he does, do you think the wins record would mean more than the majors? You know, in my mind, I know he's tied at 82 with Sammy, but I really think he has the wins record and the way I look at it. Obviously, the 82 that Sam had, you know, when you really look at the detail of those, some of those, you know, with nowhere near stacked up to the depth of the tournament, the dominance that Tiger had, you know, over that time frame. But, you know, I don't think that the wins, you know, outweigh the majors, just because there was a different era back then. I think that Jack, you know, did not play as full of schedule. I don't know this for a fact, but, you know, was not as focused on those, you know, with the family and everything he had going. So, you know, I think Tiger is definitely the greatest winner of all time. So that's the proper way to put it. But I think that Jack still is, in my mind, the best player of all time, just because of that dominance of the top three. I think it's a difference. And also, he's got the 18. So I give Tiger the win record already, even though he's tied with Sam. But I still think it's going to be hard for him to, you know, to get off that 82, you know. You know, your legs are extremely important in the golf swing. And the injuries he's had are, you know, are serious, to say the least. And, you know, it's hard to win on the PGA Tour. I know he's Tiger. But, you know, coming back at whatever he is now, 46, 47, and that leg injury, it would be almost as big as him winning at Augusta in 2019, just winning a regular tour event, in my opinion. Well, I don't care what he does from here. Just stop driving a car. You would think of all the trouble he's gotten into. Hire someone to do it. Take an Uber. It's not like you don't have the money. His life trajectory would be quite a bit different without two car accidents, right? What's next for Cap Patrol? What's the immediate future look like for you in the back? You know, just, you know, continue to focus on, you know, my customers and, you know, listen to them, really. You know, they're the ones on the ground that are really living it day to day and seeing how to make it better. And that's been the most fun for me. I really feel like it's a collaborative effort because, you know, those clubs and those golf professionals, you know, want to solve the issue as badly as, quote, I do or even other players at the club. So, you know, it's just been so much fun. I don't know the direction they're going to take, but, you know, it's continually improving and also education for the membership of, you know, why the handicap system is as great as it is and why we need to monitor it. And, you know, improve on it, you know, at the local level to make sure people are, you know, understand most likely score and understand why we post scores and the education piece of it as well. So, you know, I'm really excited to see where that takes us every time. I think we've got it kind of figured out. You know, we learned quite a few new things that we can add to help clubs and then, as I said, have fun with the app as well. In golf, the 19th hole is a slang term for a bar or a restaurant on or near the golf course, very often in the clubhouse itself. What is your favorite 19th hole and what are you drinking? Well, I'm only a beer guy. So, in my whole life, I've only had beer. So, but if I have to pick a spot to the 19th hole of all 19 holes in my mind, you know, a close second would be the pub at Pebble Beach. But, you know, above that, I would have to say the SWAT room at Oakmont. You know, just because of the history and the view of the golf course out the entrance, you know, it's hard to beat. But when you walk into that SWAT room at Oakmont, you know, with all the history and, you know, it's unbelievable. I'll tell a quick funny story. You know, Oakmont called and they were one of the first people that called after hearing about it and asked me to come up and meet with the committee at the club to talk about the program. And they asked me to come up on a Monday and I think it was in April. So, it was before it was busy and obviously the course is closed on Mondays. And I was a definite yes. It's only a five-hour drive to Pittsburgh from Cincinnati. And I wanted to go just to go see the facility and the history and the trophies and everything else. And I had the meeting and I was lucky enough to be able to stay there that night at the club. And I told the guard that he and I were the only ones at the club. I said, I'm going to go in and walk around the club. I promised I'm not doing anything but admiring everything there. I must have walked around by myself at night on a Monday night with the club closed for close to three hours, just reading and looking at everything. And it's just, you know, for an old golfer like me, it was pretty special. That is incredible. What a story. Did you get to play the course too or no? I have. I have been able to play the golf course and play in the SWAT actually as well. Which is, you know, they record the result of every SWAT in the book in the SWAT room. And Arnold Palmer's in there. And pretty much every golfer you've ever heard of is played in the SWAT Wednesday event or weekly event. And so it was great to be able to add my name to the history there. The decades are a long time from now. If someone wants to see my name that I played in it, it's all there. It's a pretty special tradition. Stuff like that is what makes this game the greatest game ever played. And that's so neat. And thank you so much for coming on this show. I mean, I feel like we just started talking. We've been talking for 45 minutes. But I enjoyed learning more about you and more about Capitol. I'm excited to use it this season here in the desert. And I look forward to seeing how our members use it as well, because we've got a very active membership with just a ton of activity on our golf course with 27 holes. And I look forward to seeing the features that you add over time. But please stay in touch. And I can't wait to see where you go from here. Well, great. I really appreciate this time. I always enjoy talking about it. And thanks for giving me a venue to do that. I always have fun. That puts this installment of the Wednesday Match Play podcast in the books. But we'll be back next week for another exciting episode of the show.
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