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Talk: 19890329-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-coming_to_terms_with_the_nature_of_the_body-1564 Leandra Tejedor Start_time: 01:14:48 Display_question: Given my work in radiology, I often see people as skeletons, especially new people, and I find that difficult. Keyword_search: anatomy, breathing, x-ray, CIMC, Sri Lanka, Buddhism, samadhi, skeletons, attachment, aversion, impermanent, body, aging, freedom, wisdom, reaction Question_content: Questioner: I remember when I had my anatomy course, and after that… and I work in… I started with a group. And after that, I started to see just whole-body slide, on the view, white people. And I really tried. All my life I look at you or somebody else like an X ray. And when I started to meditate, and use this breath, I started to think, okay, maybe I can drop this, and maybe I will use breathing. When I will breathe and pay attention on my breathing, maybe it will go out when I look at somebody. But it doesn't work because I can breathe. I can be aware I'm breathing, et cetera. But my eyes still see your insides. Larry: Yes, I understand. Questioner: But it's really something. I want to see beauty. I see especially when I see a very attractive woman, or man, who likes to represent them with huge makeup. I think it's like comfort. I can see what it says. Larry: Are you ever attracted to anyone? Are you ever attracted to anyone? Questioner: Me? Larry: Yes, you. Questioner: Very rare. Larry: But you are. Questioner: Yes Larry: You see the problem traditionally…. for example, recently on a retreat that we had right here at CIMC, there was a woman from Sri Lanka. Of course, we'd been steeped in this in Buddhism, and had been practicing for quite a while, and she got into very, very deep states of Samadhi, on a retreat here. And what she started to see were skeletons. Now, this is an ancient thing. It's happened to me. I mean, it's not so unusual. I wasn't trying to see them, in my case, skulls. And she saw, this came up in an interview, and I said, well, how do you see me? She says, “I see as a skeleton, sitting there talking.” She saw herself, her husband did the retreat with her, same. She was visiting her children, and their little children, her grandchildren, she saw them as little skeletons. Wherever she went, she saw skeletons. Break_line: However, in her case, and here's the key, it's not having that image in and of itself that's good or bad, as the same, as seeing things as beautiful, is not in and itself as bad. Is this what this helped her do, was to loosen her attachment, so that there was more of a freedom, more of an inner freedom. When she understood, she started to understand, that she was going to die soon. She started to see, she learned in a staggering way, within two or three days, she went through the whole volumes, and in her case, it was very, very creative. And then there reached a point where it was no longer a positive. See, the point is not to become averse, to develop, I can't stand the body. That's another attachment, or I love the body, they're the same thing. It's an antidote, and it's designed to take you beyond both extremes, so that you're neither grasping onto the body, or have an aversion to it, but rather can experience a body, as a body. She finally got to that. Break_line Now, one way that she did it was, when she would get to skeletons, and had had enough, what was suggested, which is it's a very ancient, there's nothing much to it. You can either study the skeletons at that point as impermanent, so you apply wisdom to it. And something happens when you start to see that the skeletons themselves are impermanent, so that you're not overly victimized by it, because it sounds like you're being controlled by them. Or take two, or three deep breaths, right into the heart here, and often the imagery falls away. But in your case, the problem isn't the skeletons, it's your reaction to them. Break_line So, your practice should include awareness to how you react when you see that, because it's bothering you, right? So, you have to begin to see that when this comes up, that you get bothered by it, and little by little, as you are able to see the reaction to seeing skeletons, that will fall away. But you don't see skeletons 24 hours a day, do you? Questioner: No Larry: I didn't think so. Questioner: Just new people. Larry: Ah just new people. But as you get to know them, then what happened? They fill out. Questioner: I didn’t hear what you said. Larry: Oh, a body kind of springs up around it, grows up around the skeleton. When you get to know them Questioner: No, I just see the skeleton. Larry: How do you see yourself? Do you see yourself as a skeleton? Questioner: The same Larry: Does that help you? Questioner: (inaudible) Larry: Okay, well, you see, again, we're back, I think, to the same thing. You have to see your emotional reactions. Because if this is a defense, as sometimes it is, to experiencing another level of the body, the pain of the body, the aging of the body and so forth, then anything can be used to defend yourself. And I don't know if you're doing that. By the way, in general, awareness of the breath is considered, by and large, as the safest approach for most of us, and for laypeople, a lot more appropriate, than any of these contemplations, for obvious reasons. It's very benign. It doesn't have the problems. If you start to contemplate the unloveliness, or the fact that the body is going to die, that can lead to emotional problems. That's why it's often helpful to have a teacher. So, the breath is the safest. I would still continue working with the breath. End_time: 01:21:53
