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In episode 1, Olivia discusses iconic romantic comedy "When Harry Met Sally" and Kelly shares their distain for the divisive horror film "Mother!"
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In episode 1, Olivia discusses iconic romantic comedy "When Harry Met Sally" and Kelly shares their distain for the divisive horror film "Mother!"
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In episode 1, Olivia discusses iconic romantic comedy "When Harry Met Sally" and Kelly shares their distain for the divisive horror film "Mother!"
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Horror and rom-com both scar you, but in different ways. Hi, welcome to I'll Show You Mine, where two friends share their respective love for romantic comedies and horror. I am one of your hosts, Kelly, and I'm your other host, Olivia. Today's episode, our first episode, is When Harry Met Mother! We will be talking about When Harry Met Sally, iconic romantic comedy, and polarizing horror film, Mother! First, we're going to talk about When Harry Met Sally, then we'll get into all of that, and then we'll talk about Mother! This podcast came about because both of us love movies. We love romantic comedies and horror, but often it works out that the horror movies that I really love, I just have to show to Olivia, and most of my recommendations for romantic comedies and dramedies are from Olivia. So here, we're going to share those movies and how we feel about them, and maybe any important context about those films and their respective genres. Yeah, and I would say that one of the reasons that we thought it would be fun to pick When Harry Met Sally for our first episode is because, one, it's a very popular film in the genre, and two, you had never seen it, right? Right. I hadn't really watched a lot of Meg Ryan in general. Like, I just watched... Oh, no. Is it You Got Mail that we watched together that I hadn't seen before? The one you like? Okay. I'd only just saw that with you, and so I am not... I watched a lot of rom-coms, but there's some big ones that I definitely have missed. Mm-hmm. What did you know about the movie before you had watched it? The orgasm scene. Yeah. And Billy Crystal's sweater collection, because of the internet. People will edit together the picture of him squatting in that cream-colored sweater, and then them squatting in a cream-colored sweater. Yeah. That's beautiful. That's about it. Sweater weather. You'd seen it already, though, right? You'd seen it once? Yeah. I watched it in my late teens, early 20s. I was like, okay, this is supposed to be a great movie about romance. I thought that this was going to be one of those movies where I was going to really love this couple and be in love with this movie. And I'm pretty sure that my mom had been obsessed with it. I was like, oh, my God, it's so funny. And I had seen most Meg Ryan movies, especially any Meg Ryan movie that came out between 1990 and 2004, I've probably seen. And so I had just never seen this one. And I watched it, and I was incredibly disappointed. And I thought it was boring as fuck. And I remember thinking that the fake orgasm scene was funny, and that Meg Ryan is hot. And that was, I think, all that I remembered about that movie. So I was very interested about this movie to see if I still really hated it when I watched it, or if it was a little different. Yeah. Yeah, that's really all I know. And at the time of this recording, we watched it yesterday. And so I have thoughts. I have thoughts. Overall, the most glaring thing for me is that I think because of my age, I cannot hear Billy Crystal and not think of Monsters, Inc. Mike Wazowski. And so when he started, even in the opening, because the movie opens and it's, you know, it's one of those movies where they go in three different stages of life. It's supposed to be over, what, is it a decade, right? It's like 77 to- Yeah, I think it was like 12 years or something. Yeah. Oh, 12 years. Okay. And so it opens and like Billy Crystal is immediately firing off, just like talking a mile a minute. And my brain is just thinking Monsters, Inc. Like, it took me probably a good 10 minutes in to be like, this is not Monsters, Inc. Like, you have to focus. So that was the first thing that I noticed. I did love Meg Ryan's like sexy postal worker outfit. Oh, yeah. In the beginning, with the shorts. Absolutely. I loved it. Yeah. One of my first notes is Meg Ryan is fucking beautiful. And then three notes later, just can I pull off Meg Ryan's shorts from her first outfit? Like, I loved those shorts with like a cute pair of boots. Yes. Speaking of Meg Ryan, A plus to whoever gave her like 15 different hairstyles in this movie. It was like giving me like knocked up the sister in that movie, where like, every time you see her, she has a different hairstyle. And that one scene when Paul Rudd's crying, and he's like, or what's the face is crying with Paul Rudd. And he's like, and her hair looks different every day. She's so beautiful. That is how I felt watching Meg Ryan with all of her hairstyles. Not however, Billy Crystal and those bangs in the first scene. That, his little clip in bangs, I guess, to hide the fact that he was like 35 years old when they were shooting this movie. So they're like, oh, we'll make you look younger. We'll give you bangs and these painted on sideburns. Because you know, it's the 70s. And it's just like, damn, y'all did William dirty. Y'all did Billy dirty in that opening scene. Later he wasn't unattractive. So like, I will say my second note is Billy Crystal is not attractive. Like I was immediately just like, stop, stop making this happen. And then later on, I think the first time I noted that he was attractive was when he had like a little bit of like the beard going on. And I was like, okay, the beard, whatever. Maybe this works for me. Yeah, yeah. The sweaters really did it for me. I won't lie. The sweaters were good. Sometimes I wish I lived somewhere colder so that I could really incorporate more layers into my outfits without having a heat stroke. Yeah. And speaking of that opening scene from like the college, whatever, they were like, riding in the car together when he spits those fucking grapes out. What the fuck was that? I texted you immediately. I was just like, what is this scene? We are four minutes in and he's I felt like I was like clutching my pearls watching him like, do it. I'm like, who does this? Yeah. Just get seedless grapes. I mean, maybe they didn't have those in the 70s, but can you do something with your seeds? Just like spitting them out. Even the first one when he hits the window and he's like, I'll roll down the window. Yeah. And wash my whole car. Yeah. Lunatic. What's your problem? That was sick. And when you sent me that message, I hadn't quite, I hadn't started it yet. And I thought to myself, like, what do you mean by grapes? So somehow my brain just blocked that out. Like, don't worry. You don't need to remember the disgusting thing that he did with the grapes. Yeah. Yeah. I really felt like the first 20, I mean, the whole movie, but really the first 20 minutes, like you could tell where every romantic comedy post when Harry met Sally, they have pulled something from it. They have gotten inspiration from something in it. And I was just like overwhelmed almost with how much they had thrown at you just in that one vignette of them going home, I guess, for the holidays or dropping Billy Crystal off at wherever she dropped him. They were going up to their respective grad schools, I think. Right. He's moving to New York and then he's going to school too. I think they were going from Chicago to New York. Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right. I think this is still what I was hearing Mike Wazowski. And so I was like, they're riding in the car. But also his bangs were so distracting, but I wasn't distracted enough to not miss his line of humping and pumping. I'm sorry. Call the authorities. How dare you say that? Like, I was so. He's like humping and pumping. I'm like, hello. Like, don't. Ew. Yeah. And then he's like, you don't want to fuck like five minutes later. I'm like, you said humping and pumping. I'm not fucking you. I'm not humping and pumping you and your bangs. You'll end up like sucking them up inside you. You know what I mean? Like you sit on his face. You think his bangs would have tickled her forehead? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Also, I had to look this up before we got on here because I feel like the way they and so many movies do this, but I was like, how old are these two in real life? Like, how old is Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal? And they are 13 years apart. Meg Ryan is 62. Billy Crystal is 75. So how old were they when they made the movie? Well, the movie came out in 89. Okay. And so that's 25 years ago as of today. Because it's 2024 now. So he's in his 40s and she's in her 30s then? Yeah. Okay. Why did they need a man who was almost 50 to play someone going to grad school? Like, no wonder those bangs were having to do so much work. They were like, well, I guess 50-year-old Billy here is going to be a 22-year-old college student or whatever. And they have him hold that baseball bat. He's like, I'm youthful. I got a bat. I got bangs and a bat. I'm a young man. So there were a couple of lines in that opening part that did make me cackle. And one of them was Meg Ryan's whole little discussion about her day of the week panties. And when she said, and I quote, they don't make Sunday because of God. I laughed so hard when she said that. I also wrote the same note because I was like, what is this bit about the panties? And then it made me think about when we were like tweens. Remember Limited 2? I've had a vivid memory of going into a Limited 2 as a little fat kid, not being able to buy much stuff in there and seeing day of the week panties. And I was like, well, what would I need these for? And what happens if you don't wear them on the correct day? Yeah, especially in our little autistic brains as kids. And like our mom hands us underwear that's clean for today. We're like nine years old or something. And it's Wednesday and they hand you Monday. I would have had a meltdown. I was like, I can't wear Wednesday on Monday, mom. Do you want me to fucking die? Like, I can't do this. Exactly. So yeah, I just. Oh, no, you go, you go. It also, so the note that I have is that it made me think of that scene in X when Jenna, what's her face? Ortega. Yeah. When Jenna Ortega has her first little porn scene and she's wearing day of the week panties. Yes. And I was like, and then I thought to myself, I wonder if she was wearing Sunday. We've been funny for a little porn that they made. Yeah. And I love when rom-coms do this where they have like these little, okay. So the theme throughout Meg Ryan's whole thing is that she's a very intense orderer. She's a horrible customer to have in a restaurant or a store. I don't know why they frame it as like a cute little quirk. Yeah, she's awful. But there's always these like one or two little facts about the person that the other person holds on to and remembers and thinks is so cute, quirky. I love when rom-coms do that because it's just like, you're pointing out that this person always wears a red ribbon in their hair. That means you're going to definitely reference the red ribbon at the end of the scene. I love it. It was like 10 things I hate about you. That was what I was thinking about in the end when he gave his speech and he's like, I love that you're cold when it's 71 degrees outside or something like that. And I was like, that's so, yeah, I love that. Didn't love that she responded to his, actually, I kind of liked speech, which is crying that she hated him. And I was like, I don't feel as horny right now. You just keep saying, I hate you. I put that in my notes too. I'm like, why does she hate you so much? I mean, it's just like, oh, I hate that. I love you. I also don't get that. I don't really relate to that. Yeah. Healing. So I was kind of just like, oh, it kind of took out the wind from the sails after. Yeah. She's like, I hate you, and I'm like, oh no. I was like, oh, do you want me to leave? I know. I know. I didn't really, I didn't enjoy that either. I wonder if the connection between rom-com and horror that I think about is like how you have talked about that you like horror because it's something that you can control in the sense of like, you can control being scared or like surprised or whatever. I feel like that about rom-coms. Like I generally could pick up on the tropes pretty early and be like, this is what's most likely going to happen. And I don't have to think about it. You know, like it all gets cleaned up at the end. Yeah. It often follows like specific little scripts or trajectories. It can be fun where you're like, oh, I bet this is going to be the final girl or, oh, person that's definitely going to be who that person ends up with. Like it can be fun following these kind of like things that we're used to. It's like, it's predictable in that way, which has been fun when something gets subverted because you're like, oh my goodness, I didn't expect that to happen. Definitely subversions happening in the old When Harry Met Sally, but that's okay. That's probably not what we expected from it. But something else I thought of early in the beginning was just like, just truly how annoying the trope is that this whole film centers around, right? The idea that like men and women can't be friends because they want to fuck, which is very heterosexual, very focused on people who want to fuck. You know, because like one of my questions was like, if these two people had been asexual, they basically been in a relationship for like a decade. Like, you know what I mean? Like they, like we see them have intimacy in so many ways that aren't sexual. And so I just, it was just so distracting to me. And probably because it's been in so many other movies that I was just like, I don't care about this like bullshit thing because it's like, no, what you're really saying is that it can be hard to be friends with somebody that you want to be more than friends with. Yes. That is relatable. If you want to fuck someone, it can be a little distracting to be sitting two inches from them and then like keep slapping their leg whenever, like, or your leg when they're laughing or something and you're like, you're so close to me. Like, yeah, sure. That is awkward. That's something anyone can experience of any gender with any gender. So yeah, I was just very distracted in the opening scene. I understand that's like, that's where a lot of those conventions come from is like a movie like this, but I was just like, very bored of it. And they came back to it so many times. Oh yeah. And just the constant, when she's like, no thanks, Harry. You know, like if me, I'm not having to try hard to not have sex with you. And he's just like, oh, okay. So anyways, you don't think about having sex at all? And it's just like, bro, like read the room. Yeah. Read the room, old man. Take out the clip on bangs and listen to what I'm saying. You're spitting seeds out into my car. I don't want you to penetrate me now. Like dating my friend. Yeah. Yeah. It was very weird. And then I fucking hated later on when she's like, do you want to have dinner with me? And it was so clear. It was so fucking clear from the way she said it and her body language that she was asking him on a date and he's like, oh, do you want to be friends with me? And then he made that quip, like you're the only attractive woman I've never wanted to have sex with or something like that. Not like the other girls. Uh, and I just was so bored with that. Like, and also like, if that would have been me, I would have been over it. I would have, I would have felt like, like insulted, you know, and I would have just been like, okay, thanks for continuously reminding me at this point in our friendship that you think I'm attractive, but you definitely don't want to fuck. Like you've said it enough times. I'm just going to go ahead and remove that as a possibility. Obviously you keep telling me so. Yeah. And is that all you think about? Is whether or not we're going to have sex? Apparently all they, all he thinks about is whether or not they're going to have sex and all the problems he says she has. Cause that's how so many of their conversations start. He's like, you know what your problem is? And I'm like, what about your problems, Harry? Yeah. Nobody asked you your opinion on what's wrong with me. And I have that guy that's just like, I know what your problem is. And it's like, my problem is that you're talking to me. Yeah. You are my problem currently. Yeah. Talking to me on a plane. Yeah. Although honestly, when his little head popped up from behind the scene, I laughed really hard. Yeah. That funny, like physical comedy timing. Yeah. To give him that. And so there were a couple of moments where I'm like, nah, this guy's pretty funny. But then he wouldn't start talking and I'd be like. Yes. And when he was being actually endearing and wasn't talking as much, um, I could see it. I could see it, I could see it, but yeah. Okay. So the first chunk is in 77. They have the, the car ride. The second half is five years later. So that's 82, ma'am. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So it's 82 and they run into each other. It's in an airport, right? Yeah. He sees her making out with a surprise, a guy that he knows. Cause like we think that, you know, oh, I just got a reminder that we have nine minutes left. That's okay. And so then we can switch. Um, so yeah, he runs into her at the airport and we're surprised to find out that he knows the guy she's making out with, the comb over guy. Yes. Yeah. And I, I did write in my notes at first, like, why would you pretend like you didn't know him at first? But then I really thought about it and I probably would have done the same thing. Wouldn't you? Yeah. I mean, you wouldn't be surprised. I think that for me, if he would have just said like, Sally, like, oh, is that you? Yes. Yes. But like, because he didn't acknowledge it, I think I would have been embarrassed to acknowledge it too. Like, oh, well, if this person doesn't remember me, I don't want to be weird and be like, Hey, I know you. And then be like, what? And I'll be like, nevermind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think part, it would be part pride for me of like, okay, if you don't remember me, I'm sure as shit, not gonna say that. I remember you and just the not great time that we had before. I really don't want to have to try to explain that once you leave. Like, once you leave and walk away, and I then turn to the guy making out with me, he's like, how do you know? I said, Billy, how do you know Harry? And he used to be like, well, he fucking exactly like she did. She's like, he came on to me during our car ride. It's just like, oh, yeah, hated it. Hated it. I don't even know. And I did not Billy Crystal was more attractive than come over guy. Yes. In my opinion. Yes. In my opinion, I agree. I was not in a coma over guy. The other the only other guy that she dated that I kind of thought was attractive was the guy she kissed at that party when she was trying to do the charades thing or whatever that whatever game she was playing. The guy that walks up and kisses her. So one quote that I did write down from the the that section of time was when she they're in the airplane and she realizes he's behind him and they're talking and he comes up to sit in her seat and he was like, oh, you said you're going to be a journalist. What do you do now? And she says, and I quote, I work at the news. So I work at the news. Exactly. One of my questions in my notes was what does Meg Ryan do? Because it is said what what Billy Crystal does over and over that he's like a political consultant. Yeah. Which is vague, but they do mention it multiple times. With her, I was like, what does she do? And then Daniel was like, well, I think she's a journalist. That's what it said she was going to school for. But like we had question marks at the end of what we were saying. Yeah, sure. And it's never mentioned again. Like all we know about Meg, at least all I remember about her character is that she is terrible to people in the customer service or restaurant industry, that she is very clumsy. And when she blows her nose, she throws the tissues over her shoulder. That's what I know about her. That is what I know about her. What else do we know about her? Well, later on in another time sequence, when they try to set their friends up on those about weird double date, we do find out that she apparently writes for The New Yorker. Oh, I totally missed that. It was like in the ruckus of them all going back and forth. It was right when Carrie Fisher realizes that she's into the other guy. Yes. And that he wrote that article that she just quoted from a magazine. Right. Yeah. I feel like I might have been a little checked out in that scene. Honestly, same. Same. Because it was bothering me how little they gave Carrie Fisher to work with. Like, they couldn't even give me an interesting storyline of her having an affair with a married guy. She just likes to fuck married guys. That was all that we knew about her. Like, for most of the character. I liked how her character ended up being later. I liked her and Meg Ryan's friendship a little bit more later. I thought it was kind of cute. And I liked the gay haircut Carrie Fisher had. Oh, yeah, definitely. That was a cute haircut. I liked it. For sure. I wanted her and Meg Ryan to get together. Now, that would have been a hit. I mean, as if this one flopped. It didn't flop. It made a shit ton of money. Yeah. But no, it could have been when Meg Ryan met Carrie Fisher instead. Something else that I just felt aesthetically about this movie was I loved the soundtrack. It was very romantic movies my mom watched while I was a kid and trying to learn what romance was. I even made a note just that this soundtrack feels like Meg Ryan. It felt like Sleepless in Seattle. It felt like You've Got Mail. I was like, this music is Meg Ryan. Just Meg Ryan being played through these instruments. And I really liked that. It made me feel really romantic, even when I didn't like the people that were talking to each other. Yeah. I also, let's see. Yeah, I just kept putting in my notes how much like how abrasive he was, where he just kept feeling the need to tell her whether or not he wanted to like fuck her, and then whether or not he thinks she wants to fuck him, and whether or not he thinks she has a problem. And it was like, every time they had a conversation at some point, I would just be like, what is your problem? Like, do you want us to argue right now? Are you trying to fight with me? Yeah. Agreed. It was like, we've talked about this. We've all been out with those couples and including people in our family where it just seems like their form of communication is to bicker. Yeah. And it's just like, it's exhausting after a while. It's like, are y'all doing a bit? Like, is this how you talk when it's just the two of you at home? No one else is around. It's just constant. Yeah. Yeah. That is exactly how it felt sometimes. Even when they were, when it skips time again, and they're on the phone, like, I'm assuming every night. That's kind of the way that they shot those scenes. Yeah. Because when she had that one date, she was like, I thought we were telling you because we've been spending so much time together. But yeah, I was definitely getting the vibe that like, they talked together before bed. Yeah. And it's just like, they were constantly like, it seemed like honestly, the phone times were a little bit more like slower than the baby whenever he's not in front of her. The abrasiveness isn't like, yeah, it felt like they were able to have like, yeah, like softer conversations when they were on the phone. I liked the conversations on the phone. I thought that part, that whole part where they're, they've both gone through the breakup. I thought when he gets divorced. Yes. Okay. I definitely liked him post divorce. He was a little brutal. I like him sad. I like him sad. I liked that he was like a little broody. And I honestly, I liked that they made her kind of ambivalent about her breakup at first. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, because I feel like that is so often how people do feel sometimes, whether they even have the reaction like Ryan had later or not, but just feeling of like, not relief necessarily, but just like, oh, okay. You can start to move on from something. Yeah. Yeah. And there can be like an energizing feeling to new starts, even if you're also sad about something. Yeah. We saw her going to like a fun little class and she's like, I went to bed early. I'm doing this. I'm doing that. I'm buying flowers. Like she's just doing stuff. And like, I liked that though. He was very resentful of it. Yeah. He was like, why aren't you depressed? Like I'm depressed, which I guess maybe some people watched that when it came out and thought that they were showing Meg Ryan as like the other end of not processing a breakup of like, you're doing all the things and not like, as they like to say, sitting in it. Versus Billy Crystal might be sitting in it too much. I definitely have that vibe where we're supposed to think that these two people balance each other out or something. Yeah. But I definitely, like you said, I read it as like Meg Ryan is like moving on and feels indifferent about all of it, but it's just like, I'm going to do stuff that I like to do. One of the scenes I also liked, I also just liked watching them like exist together. So I liked when they were like putting up a rug and they were just going for walks together. Oh, speaking of which, Billy Crystal walks normal. And then when he... What was he doing with his little hips? What was happening? I have no idea because the other guy was power walking with him. Yeah. And he was not walking like that. And in the next scene, the two men are still walking, but now not wearing spandex and Billy Crystal is walking like he has been the whole time. I was like, what are these little like jazz hips you're doing? Like he's just swinging his little hips around as he's walking. And I started cackling. I was like, what is that? Yeah. That scene really did make me cackle. Absolutely. Absolutely. There were definitely some cringe scenes, don't get me wrong, but one of the biggest cringe scenes for me was the weird karaoke they did in that store. I can't imagine working there. When that happened. Okay. So you remember that I worked at Hastings and for anyone who doesn't know what a Hastings is, it's basically like a bookstore plus a comic store plus a video store kind of all wrapped up together. Right. So it's just like a general entertainment store. It went out of business. Anyways. So I used to work there and I, during that scene, put in my notes, like in all caps, I would fucking hate if they were in Hastings because they would want to fuck with everything. They're the ones that would walk up and give me some vague ass description of a book or a movie to try to seem cool to their friend and expect me to know what it is. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. And I just feel like a staff person would have walked up to them like real fucking quick and been like, um, no, we're not doing this. Like there are actual karaoke bars you can go to. Because like, it didn't seem like, okay, you know how like, I don't know if they still do this, but like used to in like Best Buy and places like that, you could walk in and there'd be like a video game console set up and they'd have some game, some new game. And so you could sit there and kind of fuck around with it for a few minutes. It didn't feel like that kind of thing. And I think it was, it was probably just so you could click through and see what songs it had. Not that you could fully do karaoke in the middle of this like radio shack at 3 p.m. Yeah. Yeah. That is definitely one of the things I both love and hate about rom-coms is that they will have couples doing the, the most ridiculous, uh, like, almost like disrespectful at times things. Totally. We're supposed to find them like quirky. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was very strange. It was weird. Um, I also speaking of singing later on. So just, this is, this is skipping ahead just a little bit, but just because it has to do with singing, like after they have slept together and Meg Ryan isn't talking to him and stuff like that, whenever he sings into her machine. Okay. Like, so you were like holding her hostage via her machine right now. Like I'm just imagining being in my own house and having to hear this man that I don't want to talk to just shouting into my answering machine. Cause he knows that I'll have to pick up and hang up to make it stop. Yeah. Yeah. It gave me big swingers vibes when he's leaving those weird. And like you as the audience are like, no, stop it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I also was trying to imagine this film, not just like coming out today, but like the technology. So like it would be the equivalent of someone either texting you a bunch or like leaving you those, like, you know, we'll do audio messages back and forth sometimes, like constantly leaving you audio messages. And it's just like, it feels so much more, I don't know, personal with the voicemails. Cause like you had to physically come home and like push the button and like check everything. And you couldn't always, you could skip voicemails, but. Yeah. You have no control over what's about to start playing. Like you can walk in your house and all of a sudden this ex that you don't want to talk to, his voice is projected across your apartment. Like you have to do something, you got to click a button, you have to turn it off, whatever. Especially if like they're still leaving the message. And then, yeah, when she answered, he's like, oh, sorry, I thought you weren't here. And it's like, yeah, but you kind of thought she probably was there. That's why you're singing. You want her to answer. You are literally answering her. Yeah. And so overall, like the whole movie, now that we've watched it once and twice respectively, would you rewatch it? Yes. I do think it's watchable. I do. I feel kind of bad because when I rented it, it was like $4 and something, and it was also $4 and something to buy it. And I said, fuck no. And I only rented it like a bitch. And now I'm like, huh, I probably could put that on the background. Yeah. Like there were moments I really liked. There were a couple of really funny lines. Like, I'm going to be 40. I mean, someday. Years. And it's like lines like that. I loved whenever, because like, I wasn't sure at first why she was upset after they had sex. Because like, he has to leave for work. I don't understand why that had to be awkward. But I understand after a while, once she said, I'm not your consolation prize of like, she felt like he was treating her like he treats people maybe he doesn't feel things for. And so I think that for her, she felt like their relationship had just gone backwards because he didn't want to keep hanging out with her. He wanted to leave. And also, what is your problem? You need to go to a therapist. Why is it that having sex with someone makes you not want to spend time with them? You usually are on the phone with her till you fall asleep. Yeah. What did you feel? That you boohooed about your ex-wife for God knows how long. Yeah. And how you didn't want to sleep on her side of the bed, but you don't want to cuddle Meg Ryan. Weird. Anyways, so I thought their sex scene was hot. I liked the afterwards her line of I'm not your consolation prize. Like, damn, that was a good fucking line. Like, you can tell this was written by a woman because like that line, like, dang, it was good. Yeah. And then I already told you this off camera, but I really loved when he was like running to the party. Okay. The music was swelling. I was doing a lot of things. I was like, oh my God, run after her. She was feeling embarrassed at the party. I was like, oh, that was really, that really worked for me. And like his little speech and stuff. I was like, damn, kiss him Meg Ryan. Fuck. Weirdly, the speech didn't work for me, but it worked for me when she was sad and crying. And like when they, you know what I mean? Like, he was like tender with her then. Oh yeah. Before they had sex. Yeah. That was definitely one of their best scenes together. Cause like I literally gasped every time he gave her that quick little like peck and I was like, oh my God. Oh my God. Like I was like, yeah, I was getting aroused. Like I was really into that scene. And, um, we've talked about this before, but there is something about crying sometimes that has overlap with horniness. And like, I don't know if that's like our brains trying to make us feel better. I don't really know what's happening in my body, but it happens. And so, yeah, getting her little pecks while she was crying. I was like, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Even when they did that little peck on New Year's backpack, you know, even that one, it was like, I know just like imagine though, like your, your lips have never touched this person. Obviously they're both attracted to each other. And then all of a sudden you just have that quick little peck. Like, yeah, man, I should've known I was a little ace baby, even as a teen. Cause like that kind of shit, which I can't, I don't dip too, too often into like the period piece ones, you know, where it's like Jane Austen and they just like touch fingertips and that's yeah. After a while, like, can you at least like, just like once or twice, give me something like, I don't, I don't really care what it is, but I need something. Y'all can't just keep like doing longing glances. Yeah. Even in holes, like in the beginning, I know we're going on a tangent, you can edit this out. But like in the beginning of holes, when they're just like doing, he's just doing tasks for her. I love that. We just saw, you know, whatever he's like, oh, I can fix that. And they're just like together, like, Oh yeah. I know that this movie, this was a rough one to show you whenever we watched, you've got mail. And I'm like, damn, this movie is weird. But like the things I, one of the things I liked about it though, are the scenes where you just the same thing. You just see them existing. They're shopping together. They're taking walks together. They're just spending time together. And then they have those little glances and you're like, but yeah, same after an hour and a half of watching that. I'm like, if you guys don't kiss, I am glad that we got to have that. It happened earlier than I thought when they slept together. I didn't think that I didn't remember that they had slept together and then all that conflict happened. Truly. I didn't remember 97% of this movie. Most of it was a full surprise for me. I am responding like I've never seen this beside Daniel. Who's like, yep, that's what happens in this scene. But like, yeah, I don't even know what I was saying. I got all flustered. But yeah, I definitely think that they have like some good chemistry in some scenes. And yeah, I really liked the scenes where they were just like existing together. And I liked the scenes when they would eat together, except obviously when Meg Bryan was ordering her food. Okay, even we're not going to talk about the orgasm scene because every I'm sure there are people who talk about it constantly. However, what the fuck is she doing with her sandwich in that scene? Okay, yeah, I saw that. It looked like she was putting it together herself. So do you think she asked for all of it separate and she put it together? Or did she take it apart, maybe take something out and put it back together? It looked like she took it almost looked like, you know, how club sandwiches have the bread in the middle and the bread on the top. It looked like she took two pieces of bread and was taking all of the meat off of the big giant sandwich to make a tiny sandwich with meat. Like the whole time they're talking, that's all I'm watching is do this weird bit with her sandwich. I didn't notice it until towards the end. Towards the end, I saw her kind of put it all back together. And I think she asked for so many things on the side, that there was an element of her, you know, engineering her own sandwich. But I yeah, I was very confused by that. I don't know if that was just like Meg Bryan improving and was like, this bitch is going to have some things with food. Or if it's like in the script of like, you're going to put that sandwich together and then take it apart and put it back together. Yeah, yeah. So before I get into the behind the scenes things that I was going to tell you, because that's part of what I'll show you mine is that I will share, I guess, facts I find on the internet about the rom-com and you will do the same with the horror. But before we do that, I think you should explain the ranking system that you have decided for us. Sure. So while I was watching these two movies back to back having a really unhinged marathon of films, which both feature a relationship that I was not sure if I liked. One of them was very bad. But anyways, I thought it would be fun to rank them out of five things that are specific to each one. So I can go ahead and share my ranking for When Harry Met Sally, I would give it 2.5 out of 5 orgasms. I yeah, obviously, the orgasm scene is very fun. And just the way that they talk about like sex sometimes in the movie was fun. Other times I found very annoying. So yeah, I feel like it's, you know, I just right down the middle, I think that I definitely liked the movie way more than I did when I first watched it. Probably because there was so much hype that when I watched it, I kind of felt like let down. But this time, I was like, okay, like I did enjoy parts of it. And then there were just so many parts that I was like, I just don't like how you guys talk about relationships. It's very annoying and confusing. So yeah, 2.5 out of 5 orgasms. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'll go three out of five orgasms just because how many like tropes are in there and how many themes are in the movie that it's just like, oh, it's good. And I can imagine like you said, because the soundtrack is so good. It's a movie you can put on a background and like do the dishes. You know, it's one of those like, I definitely have some rom-coms that are cringed to the max, but I like to play them in the background or I'll just rewatch. Like the rewatch ability isn't to actually watch them. It's just to be able to use as like sound essentially. So yes, I would say three out of five. I did like it more than I thought I would. And there, of course, were scenes where it was just, oh, but I think where it's so saturated too on social media as well. It almost made me feel a little bit more sentimental to it, even though I'd never seen it, if that makes sense, you know, like there's so much about it on it. And obviously, again, Billy Crystal and Meg Ryan, we know them in other things. And so it's easy to be like, oh, I already like you two. So yeah, three out of five. Are you ready for some, according to goodhousekeeping.com, some facts about this? Yeah. The only things I know about this movie, besides the movie itself, are pretty much that, yeah, Nora Ephron wrote it, Rob Reiner directed it, and that the cute scenes with the couples are real stories, not the real people, real stories. Yeah. I know nothing else. Yeah. And of course, you know, I like to watch sitcoms in general. And so Rob Reiner's dad, Carl, made The Dick Van Dyke Show, which, it's an old sitcom. Barrett and Tyler Moore's show that spanned off of that is way better. But anyways, okay. So Tom Hanks was originally offered the role of Harry. Oh, well, obviously, I would have liked that more. And apparently, Molly Ringwald almost played Sally. Oh. Which, that age gap is absurd. Yeah. How would that have worked? And again, allegedly, allegedly, we don't know. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. But still. I don't know. That's weird. This one says the inspiration for the movie came from the writer and director's friendship. Oh. Oh. Did y'all fuck? It just says that they would have candid discussions about men and women, which inspired their material for the characters. And it's like, did y'all fuck? Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Yeah. Let's see. Oh, okay. Well, that's interesting. So apparently, Meg Ryan came up with the idea for the orgasm scene. I love that. Speaking of that scene, the line at the end where the woman says, I'll have what she's having, that is Rob Reiner's mom. So his mom was on set that day, unless it was preemptively planned. She just came to see her son at work. She's so proud of him. And he said, hey, mom, do you want to come sit in this shot and say this special little quip about coming? Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Let's see. Let's see. That's hilarious and weird. Apparently, the telephone scene where they just slept together and they called their two friends who were also married, that took 61 times to get it right because of the coordination of the four of them. What is this? The shining? I know. I was like, there's no way. No. Also, that scene was very silly because the whole time I just kept saying all four of you can hear all four of you. You can't make me believe that that could... No. All of you can hear all of you. Exactly. And do we have a script? Can we just... Anyways. Oh, I think you'll like this one. So apparently, Billy Crystal improvised a lot of the New Year's Eve scene. And he specifically came up with, I love the way your nose crinkles. And when you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible. Well. Well, I get why co-stars suck because that would be very confusing. I mean, yeah. Especially if my nose doesn't de-crinkle. What if she is cold when it's 71 degrees? That's what I'm saying. See, this gives me like 51st Dates and Wedding Singer vibes where both times Adam Sandler did not show Drew Barrymore the songs beforehand. And so both of the big song moments in Wedding Singer and 51st Dates, he's really singing her those songs. And so those are her real reactions for crying a little bit. And they always say they never fucked. And I'm just like, whatever, that's weird. Because yeah, it's like if someone gives me this kind of almost customized little speech about why they like me, especially how many takes did it take? Was he saying this to her 12 times in a row? And then afterwards, it's like, anyways, and you're just like, Billy. And what if he improvised every single one that was different? Vampire Bill. If you're going to listen to this podcast, whoever's out there listening to this podcast besides the two of us, you're going to have to know that we're going to make a lot of references to things. We're going to make weird sounds. A lot of the references are probably going to be true blood related. So prepare yourself. Here's a tidbit that you're going to hate. The scene where he eats the grapes wasn't in the script. Fucking psycho. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. So basically he did that because I want to say it's because he came up with it because maybe he'd seen someone do that before and thought it was gross. But what if it's just something he does and thought it'd be funny if his character did it? So that's just probably what he's like on set. Then he's walking around spitting grape seeds out. Yeah, he said that. What if I just I could just be spitting them out the window? It gives him like an abruptness. I would say it makes him disgusting, but sure. The guy who Meg Ryan is making out with in the airport, the co-owner, co-owner, the co-over guy is is Gerald Ford's son. The president? Yes. Huh. Which one was Gerald Ford? Was he the one that died in office or he took over for someone else who died? Listen, I don't remember. No, he took over after JFK. Got it. There's that, I remember nothing about him. Jackie, I was like, I'm going to wear the outfit I wore when my husband died. Because it was like hours later that I was like, all right. It's really important to her. Can you get on the plane? Wearing his brains in every room she was in that day. Yeah. I mean, nothing against her. I don't know what I would do. I'd probably do something fucked up too. You know, I haven't been in jail in that box. I know you do. Okay. All right. A couple more. And then we're going to switch to Mother. Mother. So apparently both Rob Reiner and Nora Ephron hid a Easter egg in the film for their next project. So the scene where Billy Crystal is reading a book, he's reading Misery, which was Rob Reiner's next project. No, I thought he was reading Misery, but I didn't make that connection. Yeah. And actually Nora Ephron got inspiration for her next film from this film because the scene where they're shooting in the bookstores, that's where she got the inspiration for You Got Mail. Wow. Yeah. And apparently you can, the house or the apartment that Carrie Fisher's living in when she gets married, you can live in that. It's like a real place. It's not a set. It's an actual apartment. You can also sit at the table that Harry and Sally met at. It was a real place. Oh my God, it's Cat's. It's Cat's Deli in New York City. The only reference I have for that is the Keith Eats the Menu episode where he eats everything at Cat's. Yeah. And then we already know that they were based off of real couples. Harry Connick Jr. earned his first Grammy for his work on the soundtrack, which I just thought was interesting. It's a good one. Like I said, it made me feel romantic as hell. This movie was very fall. I think this movie would feel really good to watch in the middle of September. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Apparently when they premiered this in London, Princess Diana came. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You make something and one of the most beloved people of all time comes to see it. Yeah. So I just, I've always loved looking up like random things about rom-coms, whether it's the people who made it or stuff behind the scenes or whatever. And so yeah, I thought those were some fun little tidbits that we're going to get it. Oh, you can say that is beautiful. Yes. So that's what Harry Met Sally. Three out of five, 2.5 out of five for you. I will certainly be rewatching it again, but like you said, I think it might be a fall movie. I think once it starts to get crisp next year or next year, this year, because it's the new year. Oh fuck, you're right. I know. Then I'll rewatch it and see how I feel about it. Yeah. I could see myself watching it every now and then. I think when it comes to like the Meg Ryan rom-coms, I don't think that it's better for me than You've Got Mail or Sleepless in Seattle, probably because I watched that so much as a kid, but I will say I would rank it. This isn't a rom-com, but I did like a lot of the kid and made you watch it. I would rank it higher than, fuck, what's it called? Nicolas Cage is an Angel. Definitely not a rom-com. I know it's not a rom-com, but it's also a romance that I watched way too much as a kid. I was obsessed with that movie as a kid. The first thing I saw Nicolas Cage in, which made the rest of his career really confusing when you start out as a somber angel, as opposed to the guy he plays and everything else anyways. But I think that of Meg Ryan movies, yeah, I liked it. So I, like we already said, mostly just paired Mother with this because it is another movie that just like one of us really wanted to talk about, right? So this is a movie that I can't wait to get my thoughts off my chest about it. I hate it so much. Mother is a film that came out in 2017, directed by Darren Aronofsky, written by Darren Aronofsky, produced by a bunch of dudes and someone named Jennifer Maidloff. It doesn't matter what the names are. You can Google it if you need. And it is a movie that I really viscerally hated the first time I watched it so much so I immediately watched it again because I was just like, what the fuck just happened? And then I have since watched it a few more times and I'm always so taken aback when a man tells me that he likes this movie and I'm just like, cool, get away from me. I've only ever met one person who's not a dude who likes this movie and that's fine. For that one person, she can have a pass. But everyone else, I don't, if you like it, I don't understand why. And so we're going to get into it. So we had both already seen this movie. Like I said, I hated it. I mostly watched it because before I even watched it, I knew it was very divisive that some people were like, whoa, this is art. And those people think that about everything that Darren Aronofsky has made. And there were other people who were like, this is fucking disgusting. And so I was like, well, I guess I need to find out how I feel about it. So tell me how you felt about this movie before we watched it yesterday. Well, speaking of you should never trust a man who likes this movie, I was introduced to this movie by an ex of mine that I dated a couple years ago. Just like the movie, the man was trash. So that was really my only viewpoint into it. And I'll be honest, I do watch horror, but horror is not something that I seek out. So a lot of times when I don't like a horror movie, it's not always because it's a bad horror movie. It's because I don't watch them. So I really had no understanding. I didn't know what the fuck was happening in the film, the first walks, walks through. And then I turned to you after and I was just like, huh, that was a really bad movie. Like, I don't know what was going on, but I hated it. That was really my only concept of it. And of course, whoever again, whoever's out there listening to this before you date someone, the first interaction you have with them, have them pick out a movie that they think is a good movie for you to watch. And if that movie gives you the ick, that's a pretty good representation of what the rest of the situation is going to be like with this person. Okay. Just as my own experience, take that for what you will. I'm sure there are people who've been out with me and were like, this girl seemed really chill until we went back to her place and she turned on fucking true blood and I had to get out of there. Like, I'm sure that there's somebody walking around thinking that, but I should have known. Yeah. Watching that with you, by the way, you were there when we watched it. Cause I was so taken aback that this fuck was like, because, okay. So I remember that the movie was mentioned. I don't remember if it was because one of us had said it or like, we were like looking for movies and thought, whatever it got brought up. And at the same time, he said, I love that movie. And I said, I fucking hate that movie. And we both just looked at each other and we're like, huh. And I I'm so embarrassed now, but I got like, I felt weird about it then. Like, well, maybe I should give it another shot. Why didn't I like it? And, um, whatever, that's the patriarchy. And so I was like, let's watch it again. Maybe I just like a joke. And so we watched it and I'm just like, wow, I still fucking hate that movie. Um, yeah. So, um, some people think this movie's really good and, um, you know, there's that, um, I find this movie, uh, punishing to watch. Um, every moment of this movie makes me want to rip my skin off. Um, so Darren Aronofsky, I, I honestly, I'm just going to go ahead and say them up front because I don't really have a lot of behind the scenes stuff because most of it, it's, I don't know, there's nothing's really sticking out to me other than a couple of things that I think are funny or notable. And so, um, one of those is that he wrote this in five days. It shows. It shows. It sure does. Um, he wrote this in five days, said it just sort of fell out of him. And then, um, Jennifer Lawrence, um, who, you know, stars as mommy in this movie, um, started dating Darren Aronofsky, uh, while filming this, uh, they somehow hit it off making the most viscerally awful movie that I can imagine. Um, just as far as the way it makes my body feel to look at it. Um, and what has to happen to her body over the course of this film. So they started dating. Um, and then, uh, later that someone asked her, like, I think it was like six years after the movie was made. Um, cause they broke up shortly after the movie came out because LOL, it has bad reviews. And a lot of people were like, this movie makes no sense. There was a review I saw online. I can't remember exactly what it said, but it was something to the effect of this movie is like, like the, the, the horrible thing is just the movie itself. Like it's just, this movie is like nothing. It's just, it's just a horrible experience. Like that's basically it. But anyway, so someone asked her like, Hey, you were there. Did you get it? And she's like, well, I was fucking the director. And I would say like four out of 10 understood. And she made this comment. If you don't understand a movie, I really recommend fucking the director. Hilarious. And so she says that she didn't understand it when she read the script, but that she got the cliff notes from fucking Darren Aronofsky. Oh my God. And, um, yeah, I'm, I tried to find it. I'm pretty sure that I saw an interview of her where she said that it was really stressful making it. Um, but that perhaps is not true. I was trying to find it. Um, I felt like it was something I had watched of her is where she was just kind of like, yeah, that was stressful. But I mean, you also see that a lot with people who are in horror. Some people have talked about how it is when you're trying, like when you're putting your body in that situation, sometimes it's hard for your body to tell the difference. Right. So like if you're having to scream like that over and over and over and make yourself cry, like that does take a toll on you. Right. Like Sarah Paulson talked about that with American Horror Story. Um, and Tony Collette said that it was, you know, very jarring and like, like, like draining rather, uh, making hereditary. Um, and so, yeah, so that's, that's definitely a thing in horror is that like it's actors have to put their body through a lot, um, whether it's like that or like Alien where Ridley Scott made the walls closer together throughout the filming of the movie so that the walls were literally closing in on them as they filmed to make them seem more anxious. Um, so it's kind of like a wild genre. So I understand that going into it. Um, I just think it's fascinating that this man who I think is like, uh, I'm trying to remember how many years apart they are. Um, it's over 15 years apart, I think. Like it's like, there's quite an age gap. And so this like fucking old man directing Jennifer Lawrence in such a violent role where her nipples are like the other main character of the movie. Oh yeah. There's even a line in the movie where Ed Harris says to Javier Bardem, like, that's your wife. I thought that was your daughter. And it's just like, huh, interesting. Darren looks right over at her old man boyfriend. It's whatever. Like, you know, if you want to fuck this older guy for a while, like, you know, good for you, I guess. Um, but it's just like, it's just interesting when it also kind of reflects in the movie that there's this really unhealthy, abusive, gaslighting, violent relationship that also has this like massive age gap where one of them sees the other as a muse. And you're just like, yeah, Darren. Yeah. Like, is that why this took you five days? Right. Because you, you were just like, so excited to tell this story, which is funny because Javier Bardem in the movie also, his, his, his book finally sort of spilled out of him. Um, very first thing I wrote down Javier Bardem, hot, hot. I felt so weird about him the whole movie, but he is hot. Yeah. Um, I mean, yeah, I don't have like, really, I wrote down more questions than thoughts. Um, but I think that while I'm assuming he was doing some kind of weird Jesus God, um, we need to take care of the planet metaphor with this movie. That was just strange. I felt like there were a lot of moments where, when he ramped up in the movie where I think he could have explored as a horror film, the feeling and the mental load of being a woman in a relationship with a man. Because, yeah. Oh, go ahead. No, I was going to say, I love that you said that earlier. I said that I know one person who's not a dude who likes this movie. That's why she likes the movie is yes. She thinks it is a really good depiction of gaslighting and emotional abuse by a partner. Um, and that's why she likes the movie. And I was like, that's how you get a pass. Yeah. And like there, I mean, I remember from watching it the first time and obviously when you see the fucking scene with the brothers and like all that whole thing, you, you start to realize, okay. And of course his whole visual elements of like, you know, scorched earth. And then he finds this news and it like becomes life again. Um, if he wouldn't have done those types of weird, like almost biblical references, and instead would have really dug into, this is a super exaggerated, fantastical version of what it is like when you are not listened to by your partner, you are expected to handle the mental load of everything because like these people are just coming in your house and you're expected to go get the linens, make some tea, clean up after them, let them do laundry in your house. Like all of these things that I think some people could have watched parts of that movie and been like, oh, this is, because I even wrote at one point, this is my nightmare. Like just this feeling of everyone else around you is acting like this is perfectly fine. Even once she has the baby and he's like, they just want to see him. And it's like, you have taken everything. Yeah. Like, and I just know so well, whenever she's like, you took everything for her and she's like, I gave you everything. And like, yeah, like that really did, especially like, um, for anyone who wants to learn more about the unfair distribution of emotional and domestic labor, watch Fair Play, a really great documentary on Hulu. And, um, that was one of the things I thought about, um, because this is the first time I've rewatched this movie since watching that documentary. And so I do think that part, that part is interesting, right? Like she's trying to keep everything clean. And she also has to anticipate how her baby of an old man, husband is going to feel about everything. Cause he's so fucking sensitive and broody. I put that in all caps so many times. Why are you brooding so hard? Like shut the fuck up already. Like you are in this amazing house. This woman is just taking care of you all the time. And if you haven't written the word, what the fuck have you been doing for the like six months to a year they've lived here? Like what are you just sitting on your ass all day? And then she just keeps making you these extravagant meals and then has to host random creepy guests. So you can go for a hike with a stranger. Like, yeah, the, and their sex scene was weird. And I'm going to put sex in quotation marks. Um, and the fact that like, okay, again, I don't know Darren Aronofsky. So I don't know what his actual thought process or intention was with this movie. But the fact that you, that you have Javier Bardem like redoing this process over and over and over again means that again, this man is not learning from his mistakes. And so he's just putting the next version of this woman through the same shit over and over again. And it's like, are you trying to make a God reference? Cause this has now been lost. And it again feels like you're just making a long horror film metaphor about what it must feel like to be a heterosexual cisgender woman. Yeah. Like with a man. Um, yeah. It felt like he was doing too many things at once that he needed to, he needed to settle on what it was he wanted this movie to be about. Like, I think that he wanted to make two different movies and then he just bloop merged them together and it made it really ineffective. Yeah. The only other thing I had really about the movie is more, it's not about the movie. It's just a weird fact about Darren Aronofsky. So there's this, there's this scene where, and of course, when I mentioned this off camera to Kelly, Kelly thought I was saying a different fact about Darren Aronofsky that they will share themselves. That has nothing to do with my fact. Um, so there's this scene of course, where you see that, uh, like all the earth has been scorched or whatever. And once she comes alive, everything turns green and lush again. Okay. So right now in 2024, technically 2023, uh, Darren Aronofsky directed this short film about the environment that is being shown at the Las Vegas sphere. And if you don't know what that is, you should definitely Google what it is, but it is literally a giant circle in the middle of Las Vegas. They make it look like an eyeball sometimes and it's the best nightmare. It's the worst thing I've ever seen. Yes. And I follow a comedian on YouTube named Eddie Burback, who went and watched that film to do like a video about it. And he said, it's just kind of ironic that you had to pay hundreds of dollars to go sit in this probably not very great for the environment dome to watch a, and he said it a short film, like 20, like a short film that probably costs a lot of money to make about the environment. And it's just like, that's, that's, that just feels like such a perfect description of what I imagined Darren Aronofsky is like as a, as a human, you know, like he's making the films about the environment to yell at people about how we should recycle while he's having it shown for $200 a pop. It's probably a fucking private jet. Like, yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's really the only last like thought or anything I have is just like, interesting. And it is such a bummer because if I remember correct, he directed Black Swan and I loved that movie. Still, I mean, I haven't watched it in a couple of years, but like when it first came out, I remember watching it as a teen, the young adult was like, Oh yeah, this is good. Like it's, it's weird and it's good. And so to go from that to this, I'm just like, okay. Yeah. Black Swan is the only movie of Darren Aronofsky that I like. I'm not going to watch that one. I'm not punishing myself. He basically ripped it off of another film anyway. What is the really bummer one? It's got Jennifer Connelly in it. Requiem for a Dream. Yeah. I'm not watching that. I know. And there's something else I'm going to look up really fast what it's called because I hate that I can't remember. But he basically ripped that off. Requiem for a Dream ripoff. Boom. The movie is almost identical to another film called Perfect Blue. Um, some people say that it is a, um, tribute, but the Perfect Blue creator, Satoshi, says it's not. So because he said that, that means it's not. Um, so one of the films that, you know, people think is such this beautiful artistic film, even the visual shots that are iconic from Requiem for a Dream are taken directly out of the cinematography of Perfect Blue. Wow. So hate that. And then, um, I, um, we're not even going to get into it. Um, but The Whale is one of the worst films that has ever been made. If you want to hear a really great discussion about that, you should go to the podcast Girls Guts Jallo, where Annie Rose Malamud, one of my favorite podcasts, has a really great discussion with a podcast guest. I believe their name is Caleb Luna about, um, fat phobia and the demasculization of men in fat roles. And it's a really excellent podcast. There's also a really great article by Roxane Gay, um, that talks about the punishing experience of watching that film. It's called The Cruel Spectacle of the Whale, and it's by Roxane Gay. And so, um, you can get into it there, um, but it's bad. And then, um, the, let's see, um, I think he also made that one, what's it called? The Fountain or something. It's one of the dumbest movies I've ever seen. It was one of my ex-boyfriend's favorite movie, and he showed it to me, and it was one of the hardest experiences of my life not telling him the entire time I watched that movie that it was the dumbest fucking thing I'd ever seen. Um, I hated that movie. It's such a weird movie. It's like Hugh Jackman just, like, screaming at his wife for having cancer. Like, he's so mad that he can't figure out a way to, to, like, fix everything. And there's literally a scene of him throwing everything off his desk while she's in the room because he's so angry, and all she wants is for him just to talk to her. Yeah. Anyway, so I want to go ahead and tell you my fun fact about Darren Aronofsky before I get into some of the thoughts that I had about the film. And just, I'm just going to give a very brief overview of what this, what this movie is allegedly trying to say, um, and why I've always had such a problem with it. But first, a really funny fact. Have you ever noticed anything about how Darren Aronofsky dresses? Anything that sticks out to you? I don't know if I could point that man out in a lineup if I had a gun to my head. Okay. So do you remember those tiny little scarves that we used to wear when we were 15 that provided no warmth, but we wrapped them around our neck a few times and they were very thin? Yes. Cool. So he wears those all the time. He wears a lot of scarves. Um, why do you, why do you think he would wear a lot of scarves? Is it a weird sex thing? No. Oh. It's got to be something douchebaggery. Like it has to, I can't think of like, I don't know. What is it? I'm so happy. Okay. So Darren Aronofsky, famous intelligent man director, wears scarves all the time because he says that the neck is the most vulnerable place on his body and he must protect it. From what? From what? I don't know. Uh, the elements, I guess. I don't know if he means like to not get a cold or if he means he's trying to keep someone from slitting his throat. But I think like a $2 fashion scarf is gonna protect him from a blade. I'm gonna pull up the exact quote. Or a bullet. Because I believe that I said that almost verbatim. It's fascinating. Like, you should have just said something else. You should have said, I don't know, I've always liked scarves. Quote, because the weakness of my body is my throat. Whenever I get a cold, it starts in my throat. So it's purely a band-aid. So yeah, he says he just wears scarves because it keeps him healthy. And he just like, literally, I'm just gonna put this up to the camera so you can see this picture of him always wearing scarves. You see that? This man's always wearing scarves. He, this article by GQ, by the way, is titled, the only thing more unsettling than mother is Darren Aronofsky and all of these scarves. So good one. And yeah, so he, I just can't take anything that this fucking man says seriously. Oh, that article is written by Lisa Corsillo. So whoever you are, Liza, I'm sorry, that's a disease. That's definitely Liza. Good one. So anyways, so this man who really has to wear scarves so that he doesn't have a cold that kills him, made this movie, like I said, he wrote it in five days. And the movie is very polarizing. The basic interpretations of this movie is one, a big Bible allegory. So obviously, Darren Aronofsky, whose name in the film is simply him, kind of like, you know, how like he and him or how you refer to God in the Bible, it's always capitalized, whatever. It was like that in subtitles too. J-Law is mommy, aka mother, exclamation point, because men love mommy. And then, you know, their guests that arrive are basically Adam and Eve. Michelle Pfeiffer is flooding it up in this house and is giving her naughty knowledge to J-Law, who it's like, who she's supposed to be. And that's one of the things that pisses me off, like we were talking about earlier, like, is he trying to say that J-Law is womanhood or the earth? Because those two are different things. Like, it's very confusing, because sometimes it feels like that J-Law does represent like, kind of like womanhood, like under patriarchy, right? Like that one man calls her like a fucking cunt or whatever, because she doesn't want to sleep with him. People don't listen to her. They gaslight her. They're physically violent to her. She is assaulted by her own husband. Like, you know, so it's like, we see all these different abuses that she experiences, but also she's like Mother Earth or whatever. And so then the sons are Cain and Abel. And then everyone afterwards, you know, is either like a zealot or you have Kristen Wiig playing a truly haunting role. She is called the Herald. Also, that one guy who grabbed her and inspected her teeth, the two men that were talking about her body and whether or not it was tainted, the subtitles referred to them as whoremongers. I saw that on the subtitles, too. And I was like, what the fuck? Excuse me. So I guess he created, we see God create religion, which also to me was confusing, because like, even the Christians don't say that God wrote the Bible. It's all the men that he told to write it, allegedly. So like, that also was weird to me that it's like, so God had to fuck Earth so he could like, write religion? Very confusing, because it's like, anyways, I'm not, I don't know much about the Christian mythology, but I do know, they don't ever mention God fucking Earth. So yeah. Yeah. So the other thing is that in this film, we see that she's intimately connected to the house. And this was interesting to me, because like, it kind of seemed like her like, house heart, which was very much giving monster house. Did you watch that movie when we were teens or kids? No animated movie. It's the one where they're like, it's her uvula. And they're like, it's a girl house. And then I mean, it gave me yellow wallpaper vibes were like, the wallpapers like talking to her. Oh, for sure. Yeah. It's just like, you're crazy. I'm gonna lock you in the attic. Yeah. In Monster House, this guy's wife literally like is a house like she like becomes like this house. So like, literally, the house like is her body. And there's like parts that look like organs. So that's why I made me think of it. This was a movie that my when my brother was little, it came out, I was just young enough. He was just old enough. We watched it all the time. But anyways, so like, we see this kind of like big heart thing in the house that I guess is her. And so it kind of seems it both seems like when when violence occurs from people outside of the home and the house is physically damaged that the heart gets smaller. But it also kind of seems like whenever she is hurt emotionally, the house seems damaged. So like, it's also like the pain she's feeling. And again, that could have gone somewhere that could have been interesting. It was also giving me like giving tree vibes like at the end where she was like, no, like all that's left of her is this her little heart rock. And so like, he takes that or whatever. So and the other thing too, is that, you know, Adam and Eve are the ones that accidentally break it, right? So they fuck it up. They're the ones that they break that little rock. And it's like, maybe put it in a case. I don't know that's like, yeah, why are you showing everybody? The other thing is that I so I suppose with that make her baby, Jesus, this is the thing that was confusing me with the religious allegory. Again, with my understanding of these stories. Earth didn't birth Jesus, like God didn't fuck the earth to make baby Jesus, right? Like she's not Mary unless she is. And then it's like, it kind of makes sense because she has the baby, which she then sacrifices, like allegedly God did with babies with well with 33 year old Jesus. And then they also then eat the baby. So they're eating the body of Christ because they're eating ritualistic way. So I'm like, okay, it's just like a making like kind of Catholic references. But it just also because and then she's like weeping for her lost child, like that famous painting of Mary or whatever. So like, I just felt it felt like if someone like me that only has a spotty understanding of Christianity was told to make a Christian horror movie. And I was like, I'll do my best. I kind of know about these characters. Yeah. Yeah, it definitely felt like he was like rampant up to go a couple places and then was like, better not. And then just like, like he didn't finish any of the thoughts. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It was very weird. And then like when all the crazy war stuff started happening, then it's like, okay, it's part of this some kind of narrative about what happened to humanity, because at first, everyone wanted to share, and then everything got all aggressive. And then there's like literal war happening. And then that people are labeled revolutionaries. And they're also shown as being just as violent as the other people. And I'm like, I see you moderate, I see what you're doing. And so like, it was just very weird. And then the last piece is if she is Earth, and there's also honestly, an ecofascist storyline happening, the idea that humans are this virus, this poison on Earth, and the Earth wants to destroy us, or destroy certain groups of people, right? Like that's, that's, that's ecofascism. And so especially in times of COVID, which we're still in, where, you know, there were people who were like, oh, you know, like, like those stories right after COVID happened, where they were like, less people are traveling, these rivers are cleaner, which those stories were like bogus. And like, stuff like that, there were like, people who had that kind of narrative, like, well, maybe, or like, maybe humanity, like has to, some of us have to die or something, because there's too many of us on Earth. And often, it's accepted that the people who die are people who are poor, or who aren't white, or who aren't in, like Western countries. And so I think this story, if you're taking it the environment route, makes it seem like that Earth inherently is destroyed by humanity, as opposed to capitalism, or like Western, like, countries and how they have impacted the Earth. Because like, the way a corporation impacts the Earth is a lot different than one individual, right? Like, you know, it's not that just human beings are a virus on Earth, like, what? No, we're from here. Yeah, like, we're part of the Earth's ecosystem. Yeah, it definitely was a swing and a big old fat mess. I did not enjoy it. And not even in the sense of like, oh my god, it was so scary. I hated it. But like, I did not enjoy it. It was not good. It does not have rewatchability for me. No, no, because like, when it ends, you're just like, God, okay. Like, yeah, sure. Constantly checking to see how much longer the movie was. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. One of the other things is that I also, so going back to like, how this movie could have actually said something or been effective, was the way that I felt like the movie was showing us examples of times that survivors are expected to forgive abusers. And so like, she like, he's constantly just like, oh, like, don't worry that this happened. Or don't worry that this has happened. Like, he's telling her all the time that like, she has to be very like, forgiving. And so I felt like that, that really rang true to me, as far as like, the kind of things of all this stuff geared towards survivors was like, we have to like, forgive. And it's like, actually, you don't, that's not necessary at all. So yeah, I did. I did like that. Not like, but like, I felt like that it was interesting, the times that we got to see her upset, because like, you could tell that, like, she also didn't think that was okay. But like, she's just expected to be okay with this. So like, I liked that. However, with her trying to communicate that things aren't okay. One of my least favorite parts of this movie are how many times Jennifer Lawrence says, no, stop it. What are you doing? Quit that. Like, 75% of her dialogue is like, her just saying various kinds of, oh, stop it. Like, and after a while, it was really hard to hear. It makes sense that it took him five days to write it, because there's no fucking dialogue in it. It's like, he relied so heavily on the visual aspects of it and the like, the timing of things and the honestly, the sounds like, you know what I mean? Like the audio of the movie that it didn't matter that nobody frickin said anything for God knows how long and when they do, it's not they're not saying things. Or if someone's saying a bunch of stuff real fast, it doesn't make any fucking sense. Like everything that those two characters, I have to remind myself how they're actually referred to. I kept thinking in my head is like, Adam and Eve. Okay, yeah, man and woman. That's who they are. Which also is confusing, because I'm like, are they supposed to represent all men and women? Like, do you mean man, woman? Or do you mean a man and a woman? I hated how he named the characters. I'm like, whatever. I get that like, sometimes I like that. Like, I love Fleabag. And I like that like, there are many characters that most characters really don't have names. And it's very interesting, especially because, you know, she took that from like a theater route, right? Like it makes sense. But in this case, it's just annoying. So like, so there were multiple times where like, almost everything that like woman or man said made absolutely no sense. Like it was they were just saying things at Jennifer Lawrence. I'm like, what, what, what? And so like, it was very disorienting. And I mean, that's probably the point, right? Like you're, you're probably they probably want you to feel disoriented by this movie. And I did. But yeah, it was just very frustrating. The house being destroyed was also stressing me out. I just kept putting in my notes, like all caps. I was like, this house is a fucking mess. And then I was like, why are you putting wet laundry on the floor? Like, like when she just like was thrown? What are you doing? Like, why are you just throwing that on the floor? No, I did not understand a lot of the choices that were made of like, do you think humans do this? Like, do you think an actual human person? With even I mean, even if you were pissed off at someone and took their wet laundry out, for example, you would put it on top of the washer. Yeah, it made no sense. Like the amount of times that J. Law is fucking barefoot in this house is foul to me, especially when she's cleaning up glass. She's cleaning up that weird sludge. There are a lot of shots of words. I was like, is this a Quentin Tarantino movie? Like, it was excessive. And the fact that she's wearing like gloves and you know, like trying to be really, you know, intense about the cleanliness is using a mop from 1947. Yeah. And in a fucking paint bucket, barefoot, cleaning up oozing liquid from her floorboards. And I'm just like, why did they make that look like a vagina? Why they made that look like a bloody vagina? It's art. It's art. Like I hated the flussy, the floor pussy. Hashtag flussy. It was it was horrible. I hated the weird slit in the floor. Did not appreciate that. It was weird. I just kept putting in my notes. I hate this movie. I hate this movie. I hate this movie. I also noted every time either of my dogs got stressed while I was watching this movie multiple times. My older dog was walking in circles in the living room whining. And then my other dog was taking a nap and part of the way through the movie, she sat all the way up and was staring at the TV. So I woke up one of my babies and stressed out the other. Yeah, this movie is a nightmare. At one point in my notes, I just put J-law doth protest. Because this bitch would not stop being like, quit it. Quit. It's like Mark Wahlberg in The Happening where he just keeps going, what? No. What? No. He does it over and over the whole movie. What? No. If you go to CinemaSins and watch their Happening video, there's a count at the end where it's a count of how many times he had said that. Also, what was in the toilet that whined? What was that? I don't know. And like squirted. It did squirt. Yeah. Yeah. We just don't ever go back to that. No. There's just something that looks like a bloody organ in the toilet and just went like squeak. It was like a little, it was like a little squid. Yeah. Yeah. And like, was it in distress? Or was it just being like, hey, I don't know. Did it come from the man's body? Or, I'm just going to Google mother what was in the toilet and just like see if someone thought about that. But yeah, I don't know what that was supposed to be. What's your rating for this? Zero out of five unbraced sinks. Love it. Same. Zero out of five. I did love the scene where Stevie from Schitt's Creek is the one that broke the sink. Oh my God. I thought that was her. I was just like, there's no way that's her. Okay. So here, I just Googled it and it says that he has a mysterious cut on his side. The next day she finds a bloody something blocking the toilet. Erin Aronofsky has revealed it was indeed a rib. So is it like, because women have the rib of Adam or whatever? Oh my God. I fucking hate it. I hate it. Too many men have made movies. I wish she would have just been like, it's up for you to decide. Like don't, that would have been better than whatever that was. There's also the thing with the mysterious yellow liquid, the like gold stuff. Yeah. The internet says that some people think it means knowledge, that it means temptation or destruction. But again, she's not humanity though. She's earth, right? Yeah. And she consumed it to make that ringing stop. You know what I mean? Like every time she would start to feel sick, she would drink it. So, okay. Oh, the internet also says that that crystal could have been the apple. I don't think that makes sense. I think it's her heart. I think it's her heart from the time she died before. Did you also catch that it's a different mother each time? It's different at the beginning and the end. Yeah. So that's interesting. Oh, and the other thing, one last thing that just makes the whole thing not make sense that Daniel had pointed out was like towards the end, he just goes, the earth doesn't restart. He's like, what? Because it's like this typical thing. It's like, so are you saying that there's some kind of time situation going on where creation and destruction is constantly happening or something? I don't know. Man, you should really watch The Fountain so that you can see how weird Darren Aronofsky is with stuff that involves time. It's one of the worst movies I've ever seen. But it's like, I think maybe he might've been trying to do something interesting with time. He didn't. But I think maybe that's what he wanted to do. As I said to you earlier, off camera, I do think that of these two things that we watched, one of them was a film and one of them was, I don't know, like a film school project that no one should have ever seen. Yeah, absolutely. I hated it from start to finish. There was nothing about it that I was like, I could watch that again. And I don't want him to make any more cinemas. Same. I have no interest in anything else that this man could ever say or do. I want him and his family to disappear. He is one of my enemies. We have beef. If you're listening to this, I'm not impressed. Yeah. You had a good day when Black Swan happened. Okay. Yeah. So the only other thing that I wanted to say is that, so both of these films have scenes that I hate that involve people who are trying to force you into really intimate conversations too fast. I don't like that shit. Like when you have a kid, why not? Who doesn't want to fuck? And I'm just like, hello? Yeah. Real forced familiarity. Yes. That is the term I was trying to remember. So there's forced familiarity. The same thing with Harry and Sally in the car in the beginning of the movie where he's just like, so, and I'm just like, can you get out of my face? Stop asking me weird questions. I'm just giving you a ride. It's not like we've been drinking together. We met at a bar and we've been drinking for three hours and then they're just like, what's your deepest fear? Whatever. That happens. But this was weird. I also think that both films hinge on extremely traditional ideas about gender and hetero relationships. I say hetero because they seem to think those are the only ones. And so it's very much of like, man do this, woman do this. Like, oh, you know how they are. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. I hate every romantic relationship in both movies. Every single one that you see in some way, I'm just like, I don't think y'all should be together. And then finally, I think that both films, like you had said earlier with when Harry met Sally, both films contain a lot of tropes of the genre. So you listed some of the ones of romantic comedies, like the How We Met stories. We talked about girls are like this, boys are like this. It's an enemy to lover story, wrong timing, and then sexual and platonic can't exist at the same time. So those are all big tropes in the genre. And then in horror, we have a spooky house. We have husband never listens to the wife. Dangerous situations from being too polite. We don't need to let the strangers in, okay? I'm thinking of like the movie Funny Games. Like what can happen if you are a little too polite to strangers? And then a woman's body as a site of extreme violence. And I don't say that as like a blanket statement of like always bad. I think that there are a lot of really great movies that also include violence that women experience. Women experience violence. But in this case, it just kind of felt like a man being like, how much violence could I place on this person's body that I am actually dating right now? Yeah, I definitely felt like both movies were a little too long. If I'm being honest, a little too long. Yeah. And especially, which is weird, because when Harry met Sally is only 96 minutes, but it still felt a little too long. It felt like hours. Yeah. And I think, and honestly, the way that they both felt too long was because when Harry met Sally had so much dialogue, and Mother had not enough dialogue, in my opinion. And I also feel like the between the two films, people who love both of those films are very intense about those films. And they will let you fucking know that you are incorrect, that you don't have a direct context, that you're thinking about it in today's lens, and not when it was made, blah, blah, blah, this is art. You just don't get it. They're just so smart. Yes. So I think those are really my big things with both films that you hadn't already mentioned. Okay, well, I will say I had more fun than I thought I would watching when Harry met Sally. And I had just as bad of a time as I thought I would watching Mother. So episode one has been accomplished when Harry met Mother. And so we're going to continue doing this every week. Olivia is going to bring us a romantic comedy. I'm going to bring us a horror movie. Some of them are going to have fun little connections, and some of them both have Kate Hudson in it, you know. So like, we will explore lots of different horror movies and romantic comedies. Next week, we will be doing an episode called Brethren. And it is about She's a Man, iconic film starring Amanda Bynes, and the more recent horror film called Men, that is also a rather divisive horror film. So we're going to get into that next week. And that was us this week on I'll Show You Mine. Bye.
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