This is a podcast episode discussing the power of personal branding with Phyllis Williams Trotter. The host mentions that they are doing a series on branding and that season 4 of their podcast has ended. They also thank LinkedIn for creating a separate category for podcasters and encourage listeners to sign in to their preferred audio platforms for analytics. The main topic of discussion is Phyllis's book on branding and the acronym C.O.D.E. They discuss the importance of being atypical, assertive, and authentic in personal branding. They also talk about the challenge of producing content and suggest pulling from your core message to create authentic content.
You Welcome guys, welcome to the brand identity design business podcast. I'm your host Jason We are currently doing a six-part miniseries with the one and only Phyllis Williams Trotter Because we have titled this series as the branding fuckery The aim of the series is to deep dive into the world of branding Specifically specifically Specifically personal brand Challenging conventional notion and I'm covering the secret of creating an authentic and impactful personal brand before we deep dive into Phyllis Williams Trotter's book Branding boundaries and bullshit and we are dissecting this book in this miniseries as you guys know just in case if you are new We have already done a part one of the series The links are under the event notes or the show notes depending upon when you check this audio, so Anyways, so before we move on I want to actually highlight a few things My my podcast season has already come to an end season 4 has ended a last couple of weeks I'm still doing the miniseries to keep the content going on because I have interesting topics to speak about Season 5 will officially open starting from January onwards January 2024 If any of you folks listening if you are interested in becoming a guest, you're welcome to join the guest waitlist Which I have just reach out to me.
I'll help you with the steps Number two, I want to personally thank LinkedIn because I had posted a suggestion over to LinkedIn the whole product development team I think last month about adding a separate category for podcasters I wanted them to have articles on around the podcasting category Now luckily, I don't know if it was just my post my requests or you know people in the community as a whole But they did create a separate category called podcasting and there are a lot of articles which are out there and I'm contributing those Articles so that I can help the community.
So shout out to LinkedIn for supporting me Because I want to actually dominate that category and I think this is going to be kick-ass for my growth The third thing which I want to highlight is that I have noticed around 70% of my listeners actually listen on the app without Signing in so I would highly encourage people who are listening from Spotify Apple or any other audio based broadcasting platforms out there Please sign in to those applications so that I get those analytics, you know I need to know the demographics what kind of application you're using gender age group What kind of retention rate I have on my content all these analytics does help me to produce quality content now Let's actually deep dive into our today's topic We're going to speak about the power of personal brand how to play the game right with the one and only Phyllis And she has been on my show previously.
We have spoken about a lot about a lot of interesting content and today We're going to further dissect the chapter of her book, which is C O D E which What is that Phyllis? Oh, what was that? I'm so sorry. I don't have the index Absolutely, absolutely the acronym for that is code and I have a few questions which I want to ask her about specifically Which deep dive into this a DNA thing the DNA code.
All right So before I do that, you know Phyllis I had a personal question because I do like the rebrand which you have done Shout out to those individuals. Can you would you like sharing the name of those individuals will help you with the rebrand? Oh my god, Vanya and Angela are my go-to people. Their company name is the shadow legacy They started out with client as clients But then I turned around and hired them and they did such an amazing job on the rebrand They did and they're also the same ones that did the graphics for the book as well.
So Hey, that's my go-to people Absolutely Absolutely, and as a designer myself, you know, I'm telling you they have really done some kick-ass job If you want to actually checked it out, please visit Phyllis Profile, you should be able to see see it. Okay. Shout out to those individuals Thank you so much for this lovely job and the book cover is also phenomenal. I really like it the thing which I want to ask you about Your profile and when looking at your cover art and and we had this conversation just a while back a few minutes back offline You say that where personal brands grow the fuck up and you have written your you know Tagline as atypical assertive and authentic.
I wanted you to just speak on that and tell me why did you choose those? Words as your tagline. What's the history behind it and And and and share us a little background and backstory about it. That would be really cool No problem, um Atypical that for me, especially when you're talking about personal branding or just branding in general We get so much information and we're so inundated and we follow people that do what we do That all we see is the saturation and that's what people always so saturated and crowded out here We got three seconds to make an impact and they get so caught up in that nonsense that they Refuse to actually try and be different.
It's like, okay, this is already working in the market So let me copy this thing which is typical if you're going to be atypical Then you're going to let some of your crazy shine through and that is an okay thing So to step out here and do a brand that is atypical Will help you to be assertive or you should be assertive because nobody else is going to hear you I don't care how crowded it is How noisy the industry is sweetie if you're assertive enough and I'm not talking about being pushy I'm not talking about being arrogant But if you're assertive enough to stand your ground and that's what your code is about if you stand your ground Then trust and believe people are not going to see you as the typical coach the typical creative the typical wordsmith You are not typical.
You're anything but so to step into that atypical realm of you being Authentically you which I've come to hate the word authentic now because Authenticity sweetie only thing authenticity is good for is for you And when people talk about being authentic they think that they have to just put their lives on display and put everything out there And that's not what authenticity is Authentic is like how can I be my best self to serve me? Yes The authenticity that is all up and through anything that you do it's about you it's personal The thing that you do probably most concerned about is how does it come across? Genuinely to your audience and a lot of people don't take that into consideration So a typical means like, you know what? You're not going to get the same shit for me that you got from somebody else Yes, we're in the same industry.
Yes, we do the same thing, but bitch, I'm different period. I'm atypical I'm assertive about my shit. So I'm gonna speak up and I'm gonna stand my ground You cannot tell me that you are a brand and expect me to agree. I do not agree I believe that you have some personality But I do not believe that you are a brand if you want to fight about it go fight by yourself I am NOT moving. I am assertive enough and I'm okay with everybody hating on me on that I'm cool And for me to be authentic is for me to stay true to myself because there's a black person who cold switch in corporate America Yeah, that shit don't fly no more So to be authentic is more about how I want to show up in the reputation I want to build so that I'm not out here trying to you know, what fake it to make it It is not my thing anymore.
I've had a corporate job Don't know Authenticity is all about me being me and that's it. That's all I need And we had this conversation last week also and you suggested the same thing and I totally agree I we see a lot of content which has been posted by people They display their entire life gets the stuff they do and all those, you know, fascinating things It does pull a lot of people but it's not putting the right people to you It's not really serving and really helping right? I Want to actually dissect this myth.
So a lot of people I have heard them saying content in order to produce content You know, maybe Okay, so, you know what? Maybe I'm not able to phrase the thing right what I'm trying to say Yeah So, I mean a lot of people would assume that your life could be a good content to be shared with people and it's okay To share your life and what's happening in your life as a content because see you may run out of ideas every now and then Well, what the what the fuck would you post? If you run out of ideas like, you know What would you suggest to do in that case? Because see that the social media is demanding that you know, you keep posting you come up I mean at some point you would run out of ideas, right? So so how would you navigate? Dominate the space keep your thing going ensure that people remember you and all that fun stuff happens While you create authentic content, which does not have you how do how would this process would work out? Okay, and I know we're going to go back to this but in part of the book I talk about code to the core and so part of what your code does when we talk about contemplation objectives dedication and ethics Part of that helps you build your story of what the personal brand is about and so being able to have that you're able to pull content from that and Because we don't have the bandwidth to be content creators because trust to believe I am NOT a content creator But I can always pull something from my core message that says, you know Well, I can talk about this shit at least once a week I can then you're talking about it every day for the next year but because I'm not doing that I just need to pull enough to be able to To accommodate the bandwidth that I have and because part of putting content out requires editing if you cannot afford an editor Then don't sit up here and try to put out content every day because that is not your job That is not why you do what you do.
Your zone of genius genius is something else Yes, you have to market your business, but you are not a video editor. You're not an audio editor So trying to put out content on that level is draining you of all the energy that you can actually be putting into your craft So if you're if you're Trying to create some content because you have no fucking clue what to do sweetie. Maybe that's it Maybe you found something. You know what as a designer? I don't always have something to say to you So, how about I just tell you to have a good day and go live your best life and be done with it You don't have to show me your coffee in the morning.
You don't have to show me your walk to the park Yo dog, yo, yo is none of that is necessary But the only reason you have to post that content is because somebody told you oh content is king Content is not king content is for the platforms. That's why they want you to push content that makes them money. Not you So if you're looking for content ideas, and you know, you only you know, I only put out one good video a week So let me stick to that and because you're strategic about your shit you plan You can probably plan out 52 pieces of content.
It's like this is what there's gonna be and I'm done But if you get too excited then it's like, okay, well, I already got shit planned out Let me go ahead and push this into the month And now at the end of the year you have nothing else left to give Because you don't know how to go back to your core message and find more content You don't know how to go and read a newspaper and see what people are saying It's like I can't tap in on every personal branding conversation because most of them I disagree with a lot of them I disagree with and so you know what? I don't say shit I keep myself to my own self-page and so trying to find content that's relevant that I can agree with only people that I can honestly say that I have a vibe with as far as personal branding is concerned is Sasha fierce and Mamba mentality Cuz those two things though they have taken themselves out of the personal part of it and it's like, you know This is what I need to do to get the job done And so the content that comes from that when when Kobe wrote his book all of that shit was fire I don't even like basketball and I was needed in that book Sasha fears I can understand that because being on display the way beyond they is You know what? I'm not comfortable in this but I got to get the job done.
So I break out Sasha Let Sasha do her thing And so that that's how she made her content because she didn't rely on her life to be the content You can't be a fall in her business and neither can you be up in Kobe's business other than he went got mamba mentality when he had the whole Colorado break thing and In order to recover from that he had to set himself and separate himself This is what I need to do to go get the job done This is the content that I need to create to get the job done Putting out toast and toes is not content as far as your business is concerned And so if you want to brand out loud and you think your life is that fucking interesting This will be by all means do it.
I do not agree. Don't expect me to watch it I'm gonna probably be done with you in about a month or so But if you're constantly giving me value and I just want to support or trust and believe I'm going to stick around So running out of content ideas Yeah It's a thing because you have no core message to fall back on that says, you know Part of my core message is this but I was reading an article and it said let me tell you why I agree or disagree You know, I was at a concert and this tweaked my idea So this is why I agree or disagree because you can find content to go with your core message in here and everywhere If you're looking and you're paying attention and you're true to the game But if you do not know what your core message is, then you know what? Nothing inspires you to create content.
So you fall back on toast and toes. That's it My drop Let's have some applause let's have some Okay, let me ask you another thing, okay, and I really want to get into this questions But you know before that this is something really interesting Okay, tell me why do people engage? In those kind of content which people post about their private life and stuff like that Why do we as individuals would like post and engage and come what why because you know, if we don't do it The opposite person won't post it, right? I mean because they are getting a reaction.
That's why The person and the person feels in you know inclined to move to that direction, right? What do you what do you say about that? What do you think? Um, I think people have given up real relationships for an audience I think they rather put their lives on display than actually have a friend that they can turn to because a lot of people have Lost trust in society. They don't really trust anyone The client that I was on a call with before this I was talking to one of his staff members to get him on On-point with the brand that his boss is building and we were talking about his boss's Tendency to micromanage and so it's like if you can't trust Somebody to share these intimate things with and nobody's saying that you have to have a Physically intimate relationship with someone but if you don't have someone to share these moments with you know What let's turn into content Because it's the the story I shared last week about the person being on her cycle and all that kind of stuff Talking about she can now do it in peace.
If you were doing it in peace. We wouldn't know about it you would not have had to make a Three minute reel or not three minutes. I'd say it was like 30 seconds I was exaggerating But you wouldn't have to have a 30 second reel on why you need this peace and quiet and why you can do what you do Because I really do not care and I have actually muted that person because that was just too much And while I only quite my story of trying to be a mom to now being a grandmother That is something to be turned on by that because I had my whole days and that's what I call them But those whole days had to do with what the insecurities and different things that I had and It is not just me telling you a story about you know, what I was a big asshole back in the day There's a there was there was a whole mother vibe to it.
So to now Try and find something That I can just keep to myself. There's a whole lot of things that I will never share I don't share my husband and my daughter. I tell people I don't even share my chocolate. So It's a thing for me there are some things within your business and your brand that you get to be selfish about for some reason we now live in a Society where they think they need to know everything because everybody likes Looking at a train wreck We I see so much violence in the videos and different things that are put out that I am truly disturbed it hurts my heart and It's we rather look at that because we find the the everyday life boring and mundane So we don't put down our devices we scroll through all this shit so people figure they have to make more of this shit I'm not for that life.
I'm not for that that type of business So for me, it's like sweetie go find a friend go make a friend get your ass out the house Go do something instead of telling us when you're on your cycle you and your man and in all these Intimate details of what y'all do together That is not content for your business If you want to create content and you want to be a content creator then make that a different stream Make it somewhere else.
Do not put it next to where you're making money over here because they do not go together Unless you hook on some kind And you trying to brand That is so that is so true And that is so authentically correct and I think that's what it is find a friend, you know I think it's one of the best advice you can hear on this show Please follow Phyllis and while you follow Phyllis, I have also listed Details links to her book which you can purchase The hard copy as well as the e-book click on the three dots go to event notes You should be able to find it if you're checking out the replay of this specific live show You should be able to find it on the show notes And if you're listening to us live guys, I highly appreciate you coming and listening to our bullshit for such a long time Okay, do click the share button and share this with as many people as possible Now I want to actually get into the book Okay, so let's start with code and we're gonna go with the first acronym which is contemplating what is right for you Okay, so in your book again branding boundaries on bullshit.
So you mentioned contemplation is a process of self reflection and introspection My question is how can someone engage in this process and What specific strategies or tools or advice? You recommend that can help individuals to understand their personal brand DNA kind of a long windy question, but I hope that Yeah Contemplation I tell people contemplation is an action and because of how we do business these days Especially if you're a business of one You have to figure out how does this work in your life brand and business? And so in order to do that, you are not going to find the answer from somebody who has already made their money You have to sit down and figure this thing out for yourself Because whatever you do in your business impacts your life and it impacts your brand Whatever you do in your brand impacts your life and it impacts your business So there has to be this cohesiveness and this alignment across the board Which is why cold switching is no longer a thing or shouldn't be I'm not saying I have to like everything that's out there But I at least give myself the opportunity to respect it You know what? You can't ask me to like it accept it or tolerate it But I can't respect it and that's just by my own code of ethics But when you're trying to contemplate what is right for your life brand and business, sweetie You got to sit down.
You got to take some peace and quiet You got to turn off all the shit and listen to yourself And if you don't know how to do that Then you don't know how to shut out the world and everyone opinion matters to you more than your own And if you're choosing to have that opinion that that someone said or what they said I should do this and they said I should Do that. Oh, well now there's human design.
And yes, I know I'm a projector or something I forget what time but they take in human design But all of these different things are just more shit on top of more shit instead of sitting down and saying what do I want Why do I want it? And where do I want it? If this is only for my life, then what does it mean for my brain if I keep all this shit to myself? What does it mean for my business if I have this great gift talent and ability and I don't monetize it What does it mean over here? And so to understand those things you have to sit in and it may not come to you for months Until you actually say, you know This is I'm bringing this out and because contemplation is an ongoing thing and because personal brands are allowed to mature You get to sit in it when you need to when you feel like stuff is happening and pivots are coming sweetie sit your ass down and figure it out and it's a level of mindfulness and I'm not going to call it meditation or Affirmations or anything like that because there has to be some intention behind it If you're intentionally trying to figure out like where do I fit in this industry? I'm looking at all these people that made all this money Where do I fit in this industry? because the thing that that I tell you not to do because in in Champion knows about when we when we study brand strategy.
They tell you about Quantitative and qualitative analysis and this is based on competition Okay in my world there is no competition but there are Alternatives there are alternatives to me. You don't have to take me But you need to find the best alternative because I'm not trying to chase you down and take money out of nobody's pocket I want my own money. I want my own clients. I want my own audience So I'm an alternative to somebody that you know, I don't stop don't stop.
So soft. Tell me give me the real shit So that will come to me versus somebody's like, oh, well, I'm going to baby me baby and cuddle you and do all the things The thing about it when you're contemplating be intentional and if you're that person that you know I talked to myself on occasion. I saw people you see me talking to myself. Don't worry. I'm in a staff meeting. It's okay. It's okay But if you're the person that talks to yourself instead of right because you're not a writer Then sweetie record your conversation to yourself and if you happen to answer there is nothing crazy about that because you're trying to figure some shit out and People act like oh was she talking to her? No That's not a crazy thing Because sometimes you have to hear stuff in your own ears to see how stupid you sound when you say you can't do the shit That you know you can do But if you say it out loud, it's like, you know what? I'm gonna go out here and I'm gonna be by top five of this industry and this particular thing because I know that And it's like, okay, but why do I want to be top five? Because the people I want to impact on they need to hear this message.
This message needs to change this This this industry needs to change it Why does it need to change because people are being harmed by you think until you can't ask yourself why anymore? You have not fully got to the bottom of why you actually want to do what you do where you want to do So being intentional and sitting in your shit is a thing And then once you write it down and record it or whatever reflect on it and say is this really true for me Is this really what's going on? And if it is then baby take action Go speak up.
Go back to I said be assertive stand ten toes down in your shit and Understand that you have sat in this long enough to figure out this is right for you So when the experts come and say well, you're doing it wrong. No, you're doing it wrong Be bold enough to say that shit Because what's right for you is not right for me and what's right for my client is not right I get to stand in this So that's what contemplation is about is breaking it all the way down to like, you know What let's get deep with it and let me talk to myself for a minute because there are too many voices in my head Because Google and YouTube and tick-tock and everybody Got two cents on what I do and the truth of the matter is sweetie.
They don't have a nickel in this quarter This whole quarter belongs to you and to take the advice Sweetie, you take advice with a grain of salt even with my clients to take in what I give them Sweetie, if it does not fit, so what you don't need away Instead of trying to make it fit and trying to force it into something that is not happening Because it's not right for you Me cussing all the damn time.
It's right for me It's not right for some of my clients and I get that and they get that But it's like, okay, but what is right for you? Are you a technical person? Do you need to draw it all the big words because it makes you feel important Why do you need to feel important because the things that people don't know sweetie? I am certified as a live brand and business coach actually So when I talk about live brand and business is because I know all of that shit is connected And you need to figure out how is all of this going to be impacted because your life Actually impacts everyone around you friends families co-workers collaborators partners ambassadors all of it So when you're doing all of this and all of the alignment and all those different touch points that it hits There needs to be alignment for you.
And this is why I talk about personal branding I don't tell you to take that shit personally, but you got to put you first. You cannot put your clients first You cannot put the business first. You got to put you first and sit down and contemplate what is right for me Did that get you enough an answer? That gave me a lot of answers And thank you so much for doing that I love the explanation so I'm really grateful Alright, so let's actually deep dive a little more further about contemplation What do you think are some of the common obstacles of fear that Individuals may encounter when engaging in these deep self-reflection and how can they overcome these things? Um, I would say the biggest obstacle is time and it's not that they don't have the time It's that that they say they don't have the time they won't take the time to actually sit down and figure some stuff out for themselves and That's why you see people constantly asking the question, especially in Business, how much should I charge instead of saying to myself? How much do I really need to make? And then understanding what the progression is for that amount of finances that you need Because you don't even know the difference between accounting and financials So, how are you going to understand what's right for you and how much you need to make? If your situation is such that you need to make a hundred thousand dollars in three months, baby Trust and believe that is not realistic.
It is not going to happen But if you understand it's like okay to start digging myself out of this financial hole and to hang on to my business This is what I need to do you don't want to sit down and take the time to do that when you know that there are certain things that you need and In in figuring it out Sweetheart nobody can answer those questions with you But you won't take the time and then the other obstacle is that we fear the truth Because if we get truthful, then we start digging at scabs and shit that don't even need to be uncovered Because facing the truth is not about trying to say.
Oh, well, I'm bad at this and I'm bad at that No, if you do an actual SWOT analysis of your life, this is what I'm good at. This is what I'm bad at this is the threat and these are the opportunities and If you look at it more strategically It's like yes, this is my weakness so either once I get to this level I need to hire or I need to not make this a part of my business and To face that truth because we want to believe that.
Oh, I can sell all my shit is for everybody. Everybody should know No, they shouldn't it's just not a possibility Facing the fear that somebody's going to tell you no Yeah, it's gonna happen no is an okay word and it's a fucking complete sentence no Because you also didn't just say no to people who want to throw money at you When when I got out of my old business There are people who want to buy big mrs.
Barbecue. I said no So for one I could not trust that you would treat my business my old business the same way that I was So I said no But not enough people actually sit down to figure out what is my actual exit strategy because I Can name? Oh my goodness the number of people who start a business they get in and don't know how they how they're going to get Out. It's Astronomical it's crazy There needs to be an exit strategy, but you don't want to sit down and think about that because it's like oh well I'm planning my divorce before I get married.
No, it's not it's faking reality and It's like in being your own worst critic, it's not going to help you You're not criticizing yourself. You're just facing some hard truths And if you can face the hard truth, then trust and believe nobody can try and use them as a weapon Which a weapon towards you? So if somebody comes along doing the same industry to all your so-and-so game is weak, you know But you are so fucking right, but you're killing it.
So you're going over there and I'm gonna go over here mind your business You know, so those are the things is blaming blaming Time on your problem blaming time on contemplation I'm sorry Saying you don't have enough time when actually you do and I'm not talking about the worrying that keeps you up at night of why? I don't have any new clients. I have no new money coming in. I'm not talking about worry I'm talking about just sitting in it and actually facing the truth and Know that you know what with the uncertainty all the shit that you're uncertain about You've already overcome all some of those certainties and we tend to forget that so you didn't get to be the age that you are But hey not having any obstacle You overcame all of those So that was I'm just gonna leave it at those because there's others but I'm gonna leave it right there Absolutely.
Absolutely. I love what you shared, you know Take the time fix those things find out what would be an ideal solution and Sort it out rather than procrastinating and not doing anything about it. It makes total sense Now on your in your book. You also state that Contemplation is not solely for the benefit of the individual but also the target audience Okay, would you mind? Elaborating on that that what role would this play in terms of the brand's growth and success how this would work? When I think about the target audience I'm thinking about people that I actually want to work with not just people who have money to work with me And so when you contemplate who you're attracted to in return It hits difference because if you decide like my business model is that I don't want to do one too many I want to do one to a few that's my own personal preference So in being that selective in who I work with I have to sit down and figure out Okay, you're attracted to me, but I don't like you.
So is my message coming across wrong? Am I saying the wrong thing to the wrong people? So figuring those kind of things out is Like, okay, maybe I need to concentrate my efforts over here because evidently you guys aren't hearing me And this is why I want to hear me. I had it when I was younger I had a thing for pretty boys with long hair. Oh my god Just a whole lot of what's going on.
And so but I was concentrating my efforts in the wrong area But when you when you find the right type of person that you want to be attracted to you And I'm not saying it's your wish list person You're not going to get a hundred percent of what you want But if you can get most of what you want Then that hits different for you and how your you can be of service Because even though you put yourself first in your personal brand Once you've figured all this shit out after you sat in it for a minute now You can go be your best self to your best people The people who are willing to pay you not try to negotiate with you not try to run on you The people that see value in the work that you offer.
So being able to do that and having that genuine approach That genuine approach is what attracts them Because I'm not going to sit here and sugarcoat and do all the things people that are attracted to me are probably people that most folks won't think that are attracted to me and it's because they want to be able to to say what they want to say within their own business and it's it Saddens me. I'll put it that way.
It saddens me that people think they have to police themselves within their own business So the other part is the adaptability of it all being able to adapt this circumstance Circumstances and so forth when you're out here talking to an audience Because how you talk to an audience based on one of your speaker points versus another speaker point is different Me being the only black speaker in a room full of white folks. It might sit different.
So it's that adaptability me being around All of the hood folks that I know and there's that adaptability and while I do not Do not condone code switching sweetie. I do I embrace respect and adaptability So you can adapt to the audience That you're with at the time and not have to switch up everything every time you open your mouth Everything has to switch because you're creating an inconsistent message and persona then that's not a good thing But because like I said going back to personal brands having the ability to mature They also have to be able to adapt to change Because you might have a product or service that you know what your audience is aging out Your audience is growing older with you.
So now how do you adapt to that? Do you want to go back and get a younger audience? Do you have the ability is that is the younger audience even attracted to you? And I tell people all the time. I don't want to work with Millennials because I think I have my own personal Reason for that, but I choose not to work my Yeah Exceptional and like I'm not talking about them being exceptional people but an exceptional connection between me and them So if I'm able to adapt to this person or they're able to adapt because they got an old soul or whatever Then we can get down But for me to go back and say I want to go back in it.
No, I'm going with their age that I'm with Because I'm better able to understand I'm better able to cope. I'm better able to not have to argue every freaking point So I adapt and then like say the final piece is being realistic about the audience that you have If you know that you're attracting an audience that only has $97 and you're trying to offer them a $1,000 thing Sweetie, you're not being realistic. And if you're continuing to try and put out the same message Knowing that there's this mix match this mismatch of I got a $97 client and I got a thousand dollar product Are you not pushing out the message that this is a thousand dollar product and it's not the price tag It is the value of what you offer if they don't see the thousand dollar value then you're going to continue this to attract So being realistic about what is out there and how you contemplate this for yourself is I'm ghetto country.
And while some people think that folks won't pay me thousands of dollars There are folks that pay me thousands of dollars and they are so not ghetto country So being realistic about your shit is like, you know I don't have to listen to everybody that has something to say on my two cents Absolutely, absolutely. I totally totally agree with what you said Adaptability and be realistic and people should see value in what you bring to the table I remember a few days back actually Chris posted a video about do not justify Your work.
What do you have to say about that? How would you approach things? Would you look at it differently or would you agree with Chris? No, I totally agree with that because a lot of times The people that don't see the value will contact you because they're price shopping And so now they're asking you questions trying to make you justify why you charge what you charge And usually it's someone who's in the same industry and they will turn around and use your justifications as their own justifications When there's no justification necessary if your brand and your marketing are on point It's like well, why do you charge so much or why does this cost this? Sweetie, it's the price that I chose because this is the level of game that I'm bringing here So but can you explain more? What do you need me to explain that you can't afford it? So I'm like, I'm not understanding the question because you you contacted me.
I did not come out here chasing you Someone is reaching out to you So if someone is reaching out to you Why are you asking me to justify my price? What what kind of clarity are you looking for? Are you trying to find the value? Maybe it's not valuable to you. So maybe you're asking the wrong question But for me to try and justify you need to explain why that no, I don't I really don't That's me trying to explain while i'm about I do not know It's the number I chose And because I said this is the value of this particular thing It is what it is But again realizing that when somebody comes at you when they're asking you to justify Is because they don't see the value so you can either take the time to Give them the value But you do not justify because justification now comes to a point where people start to discount their shit And you should not discount for anyone.
I tell people I don't discount for strangers I'll discount for my clients on a heartbeat But I don't discount strange because I don't know you like that because I might not like you that way But I also will not justify Because if I have people already paying me for for what I do and they're paying me Well, why do I need to justify for you when you're the one that picked up send me an email call me or whatever It's not a thing.
It is not a thing if you're price shopping. I am not in the price shopping business Thank you and have a great day I I totally agree with you and I was really cool I was really cool. Let me ask you a lot of businesses may require you to do cold calling and reach out to prospects And if you keep that situation in mind And if they were to ask you a question about price Would the same logic would apply there? You're talking about being a salesperson Sales people I think sales people are charismatic.
I really do the right the good ones are they're very charismatic And they could sell ice or eskimo seriously um, so the the thing is not about the price because they Are able to understand they understand people well enough and they know who they're selling to They know their audience well enough to know their conversion rate It's like okay. I need a hundred people like this and i'm probably going to convert about 60 of them And because they know these things they know the conversation to have and they know how to talk to that crowd So if you're talking about this has nothing to do with personal branding sweetie, this is a conversation Now if you had a salesperson who's known as the king of the king of sales Then the king of sales is his personal brand and because now he can show all of the value behind being the king of sales People are more likely to hide to buy from him than they would the queen of sales because you know Her story is only half as good Her game is only half as good and i'm sorry I had to go from the king to the queen.
It was just a thing don't don't take it personal But it's knowing that that you can make that transition of I have to go out here and I have to cold call Then if you know one of the things I talk about is two-word branding and how you can use it for networking the way I use this like, you know, I'm the ghetto country brand mother, but for this event, you can call me phyllis What do you want to know? And most people are taken aback that it starts the conversation Whereas the salesperson they might jump right in with the product or the service or whatever because they know why you got there And so they already have answers to the question or the objections Of why people shouldn't buy I know what you're thinking.
You're thinking that this costs too much I know what you're thinking. You're thinking why can you why do you you need to have this in your life? They already have all the answers to the objections Most people won't sit down and figure out what the objections are because they don't know their audience so It's knowing that if you're on the hunt, which is usually what sales people are they're on the hunt They are not farmers. They are not trappers.
And if you guys know that whole sales process Sales people aren't they're they're they're known for the hunt And they know they're praying they know the sick gazelle in the crowd That they can count on And so forth versus like I said, if you're a trapper, that's what you got to put out You just got to put out that honey trap and I don't mean that in a sexual way But you have to put out that honey trap and if you're a farmer Then you have to be good to your existing clients because your referrals most of your business comes from referral And so to be able to continue to nurture existing relationships, even though those clients no longer need you You still have to keep that ground fertile because that's where most of your clients come from So it's understanding that dynamic of yourself as well and how you're going to get clients and where you're going to get them from If you know that your yourself is 60 referral and 40 hunt Then how do you play that game? Are you even a hunter because if you're not a hunter, then you might be in the wrong business So that's my thing on that Absolutely.
Absolutely. I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that No problem And and you know, let me ask you phyllis. Who is your favorite rapper? Oh my god, I am so old school. I don't know. None of this new shit out here. Oh my goodness I'm telling i'm probably a big public enemy fan. I seriously I like hardcore shit that has a message behind it and a little bit of It's not even a little bit a whole lot of smart ass in it.
It's like even with with um nwa Those are my that's the kind of rap I like and because it has such a strong message to it at the time Because it has such a strong message to it at the time that it was being put out so i'm gonna go with public enemy And i'm gonna go to do so it would be It would be method man or ice cube. Oh god. Yes. Yeah. I'm a big fan of ice cube.
I'm a big fan of dr Yeah, the thing is phyllis, you know the interesting part and I I know we are going a little off topic Uh, when I tell people I love hip-hop They find it really strange because I look like my profile picture looks like, you know, i'm into instrumental classic music Meditative shit, you know when I tell them like, you know, yeah, I listen to gangster rap and those kind of stuff They find it hilarious.
They're like, you know, holy shit You are into this But anyway So, you know guys, you know if you listen to this conversation all the 10 individuals out there You are welcome to raise your hand and come up and ask phyllis questions If you don't do so i'm going to continue the interview by asking phyllis some more questions, which I have Uh jotted down. So this is the time if you'd like to come up If you don't have a question, you can at least come up and say hi to phyllis.
We don't mind that too Kezia, I don't buy it Do not hesitate kezia angelica natalie carol brian mike kevin tracy Okay, angelica is joining Anna Anna and usman anybody Angelica, welcome. Thank you so much for joining this conversation. Would you like to contribute or would you like to comment on anything? Or would you like to say hi? I want to do a combo platter I want to say hello and I um, and I love uh, the realness Uh and being yourself in the room, uh phyllis and and jason um so that the authenticity the word that you don't like but But it's okay.
It's okay, but you show it by by being real and um just a few things because i'm on i'm on a few different platforms and and um You were talking earlier about content and And how linkedin is is different from those different From those other platforms. So my question is should should I spend time on those other platforms or um Or should I just focus on linkedin And and just target on The audience I have here on linkedin Thank you so much No problem.
Oh, by the way, where are you from too? I just wanted to know believe it or not. I was born and raised in la I was born raised in red in la been there for 50 plus years before I left and moved to oregon And now i'm in texas, but my mama named from texas. That's where my mama from So I have that whole southern thing not the southern drawl, but I got the southern roots But as far as content, um, one of the things that I talk about in the book is communication and your communication style Says everything about how you want to present to the world and I see that you're a podcaster in the video in an interviewer So to to be on multiple platforms It depends on like do you have the bandwidth or the money to pay an editor to to put you out on all of those platforms? Because if it's going to stretch you too thin Then maybe you already get good on this one If you're already on linkedin then maybe you add another as you want to grow But if it's going to take like I said It's going to take you too much out of your zone of genius of doing what you do Then I would stick to the platform where you are But then also trying to funnel people off of this platform and into your email list and I know you guys have heard this before because LinkedIn can get a hair if they ask and kick you off like they kick me off And because you've built up an audience here and you haven't nurtured on your on your website Or if you have a website or your mailing list, then they don't know where else to find you So using that to funnel people more to your website than going from from platform to platform to platform Especially if you're putting out the exact same content on each one Then I wouldn't say you necessarily have to be on those If you're just spreading the word and making sure everybody hears the same message I would just say don't put it all out at the same time If you put it out on linkedin this week, then maybe put it out on instagram next week Give it some time to breathe and do its thing.
Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense, thank you so much for for sharing that gem with me no problem, no problem Angelica, that was a beautiful question. You're welcome to ask one more if you like or maybe a few more Um Let's see. Well, I I was earlier I was in a room about finding your target audience Okay. So how how would you suggest? How would you suggest um, because I do so many different things and I think that's i'm a nature I got a lot of niches Because I've been told you gotta narrow it down baby you gotta narrow it down so i'm like Okay.
Well, i've been really loving the podcast thing like like my friend here. Uh, jason Mm-hmm, but I also i'm a film editor as well and and I and I also um, I I have a children's book out and um, i'm learning about ai so What do you suggest for someone that has these various niches? You know what, um I will find a way to bind them together So if the does the children's book have anything to do with the video or the podcasting? Um Well, I do have podcasts on on parenting Okay, so then that's how you find the book.
Okay, and you said what what is it that you do with video you do editing? I do I I film and I edit with video So i'm going to tell you something. I told someone he was one of my first interviews and he does a similar thing What you can do is you can specialize in doing. Um, say like documentary work for people who? Need audio and video and so part of what you ask them as a podcaster It's like we're going to set up your interview video that you can sit on your website to attract more people and do all those Things and especially if you're a parent we can tie that in because we can talk about my book your book and all those things So it's being able to find a way to tie those niches together And this is one of the things I talk about my clients being shiny object chasers because they have all the things and they want To do all the things they want to be multi-hyphenated But the thing that you need to do is try to minimize those hyphens to put them into a package That that covers all of it.
So being that podcaster who also does film it's like, you know what I can create this thing This package for you where we can have something sit on your site That shows your interview skills because it might be part of their one sheet or their speaker reel Or whatever so we can do that. We'll i'll edit it for you And then we'll kind of bring the book in because you're a parent So you can you can find a way to tie them all together It's just about connecting those dots and not necessarily trying to figure out how to separate and niche into all of them Does that make sense? You're a genius my friend And if they decide to you know convert the book to a movie and you know the editing skills to make the movie also Mm-hmm and that's another thing what he just said it's like you can use your book as um, One of the things that you talk about when you're doing like if you're going to turn your book like take my book for instance Then you mention your book You're constantly mentioning your book like while this is a children's book We're speaking to an adult for this particular reason and is doing this particular thing So if I was going to turn this into some sort of animation or if I was going to market this because part of your business Is you have to market so let's say i'm marketing my children's book for instance And I know it's not relevant to podcasting and all that stuff, but we still need to understand marketing So we're going to break it down on the children's level using my children's book You see what I mean? You can bring it in there Yes, I love it and I love the idea of making a movie I was thinking of making an animation out of it, but Since I don't really know that I don't I I haven't learned that quite yet.
That's something I gotta you can hire people to do it Yeah, or that could be part of your content journey, it's like you want to make sure that you understand Animation better before you go hire someone because the thing is most people I mean I have noticed this and i'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you back there. No, go ahead. Go ahead. I'm thinking most most entrepreneurs or people Like angelica or myself, you know, we try to do everything sometimes we want to Be the editor we want to get into video.
We want to do design Strategy everything, you know, and sometimes, you know, it becomes a clusterfuck Uh in the end because you don't you're not good at anything And you half-ass all these skill set What do you what do you think about that? You know, should she get into that like, you know, let's take an example and put that into context and perspective. What do you think? Um, I think it's a great to have and because being a being a jack-of-all-trades is not going to hurt you But what you can say is like, you know I tried to do this thing and it was just not for me because sometimes you can bring other skills to your brand set But if it's a skill that you don't like at least now, you know, i'm gonna go out and hire for this It's like now you will never catch me doing my own book covers anymore because I suck at And it's time consuming it's time consuming and so forth So if you know that your time will be better spent doing something else, but it's like I had to know this for myself first Then it's then you don't publicize it you can put it out like like I said if you're one of those people that brand out loud and put all your business in the street and talk about your life is Like i'm studying animation to find out if I want to bring this skill set to my clients And so you talk about the journey of this whole thing and then if you decide it's not you know What i've been there done that animation is not for me And so but now I understand the journey of an animator And I can now I can figure out how to help them with podcasting and video though Because I understand the process that they have to go through I understand some of the pain points so that I can help them talk to their clients about the pain points So now you have a new skill, even though you don't use it You know how to address it with the business that you still have existing Does that help uh, jason? Absolutely.
Absolutely. It does. I love it That is really kick-ass if anybody else is interested in asking questions or contributing to this conversation, please do not I want to bring her ass up here. Yeah, Kezia, please please And while we are waiting for Kezia, I wanted to ask you this question about uh the next uh excerpt I think that's how you spell it Uh from your book about objectives objectives will guide you and I think you know, this will help a lot of listeners so specifically what I like to ask is that How does being a trend setter rather than being a trend follower? impact your personal and business brand success Um, first of all, I don't believe in trends.
I know that they are a thing i'm not saying that they're not I don't believe in trends for me because trying to stay on trend means that at some point this is going to die And I have to learn something new. I believe more in people being a classic Um, they're classic clothes, you you know You have that one piece of classic clothing that goes with everything that never goes out of style Everybody and their moms since who can remember way back when? Jeans and a crisp white shirt can pull off that look in any era.
So there's a thing to being a classic So when you're talking about objectives You want to go for objectives that make you that classic? And it's like you just never go out of style in that particular thing one because you started it And when you I think if you look at marty neumeyer He talks about the ladders on the wrong wall and all of that kind of stuff Who's to say it's the wrong wall? Maybe it's the right wall for you if you're the only person at the top of that ladder So you become the classic in that era? One of the books i'm reading right now is positioning and so how you position yourself positions you as a classic So nobody can knock you off that rung even if they tried because you were the one that started it So it's not that you're necessarily a trendsetter.
It's like sweetie. I'm the originator of the game You cannot do this better than me because like you say if we go to objectives I always make sure i'm on top of my game And if you go back to to to thinking back when dudes were so-called mac daddies and all that kind of stuff my dad My dad was an old school mac. He could oh my god the women that he got i'm like, how are they just dumb? But he he was always on top of his game well into his 70s Dude would walk up to a chick with no problem.
His game was always on point So he was a classic og And he could still pull a woman at 70. My my um But my younger sister is 22 years younger than me. My dad Got her mom. He was in his 50s and she was in her 30s And he always stayed like that So his game it was a classic move that he had developed over years that women fell for So when you're talking about doing something that that keeps you in mind of being a translator I mean trendsetter I would go more for being a classic than a trendsetter because everyone is going to look to you as the originator And say nope.
That's not what she meant. Nope. That's not what he said You know what? Let's go back and ask the ask the original. Let's go back and ask the og So I think that's more of what I what I prefer my clients to do be the og And part of being the og comes from your personal brand because if you mix it up to the culture that you want to create No one can duplicate that culture Even if they try to pull in the same archetypes the same vibe the same they cannot do it And because everybody will see them for the fraud that they are So that's what I would say about trendsetting.
Don't be a trendsetter. Just be be new to the game be the originator And then be that classic Stay classic don't end up bullshitting people. Eventually. They'll figure it out They'll figure it out high quality advice there, you know 100% I totally agree I want to say hi to heather my lovely friend who is down there in the audience Thank you. Heather's a classic. Yeah, heather is a classic Who else is classic like kezia looks classic Why am I saying crazy because I want to say classy Kezia is saucy classic That's what I was trying to say But yeah she is saucy classic because one of the things I appreciate about her and Because I met her when she was kind of new to the game and she wanted to help with people Uh with modest clothing lines and by modest she means cover your shit up and I get that And I I love that that that whole vibe Um, I also like cleavage.
So I don't know i'm kind of contradictory in that one So One of the things is that She she's still classic. She's too. She's she's still true to that game of being modest when she dresses and how she comes across And so she is a true classic in my eyes So her being able to to kind of bring that because she does writing identity now, sweetie being that classic within writing identity I think her personal brand comes across And making sure that people understand that you know What you cannot push me if I thought that if i'm gonna be modest i'm gonna be all the way modest I'm gonna be this version of modest but don't get it twisted because I still got a fucking attitude I am still saucy as hell.
So but she's that saucy sweetie and that makes her a classic So that would be my thing. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely when I actually saw Kezia's posts about verbal identity I was like this is pretty kick-ass And I found it really cool because I never thought of it that way so that was really exciting and I really loved her content She posted on instagram and other platforms, which was really dope Anyways, you know, let's actually move on.
I I want to ask you maybe one more question about objectives And we'll probably wrap things up before I do that. I want to ask angelica angelica. Do you follow rap? Do you have a favorite rapper? Do I follow what rap music rap music rap music do you have a favorite? I I still listen. Uh-huh Okay, do you what do you well? I just i'm gonna tell you i'm old i'm pretty old school. She's a classic Yes, okay I like snoop dogg because he's girl.
You better say that He's got the rap down and he's got the personality he's just too funny He's got the rap down and he's got the personality he's just too funny, you know, but he's real, you know, yeah I don't know california's, uh speaking today. There you go. There you go He's a classic as well because I don't care what he steps into even stepping into martha stewart's kitchen Dude is still gonna smoke his joint and do his weed thing.
He is not trying to change for anyone And I love that. He is a classic And while I've seen other rappers kind of morph like ice cube Ice cube reminds me of my first boyfriend who was a drug dealer and all that kind of stuff but he's turned into this this this like Not necessarily gangster dad, but his gangster has really mellowed down whereas Snoop snoop is still snoop. It's like i'm the d-o-double-g for real And so in my mind, he is a true classic that is hung on.
He's pivoted He's he's he's doing other things, but his classic snoop dog Is always true to the game him and his cripple. He's like you are not going to change me Definitely i'm there for you angelica. Yes I totally agree. I totally totally agree All right. So one last question, you know before we actually wrap things up, so I want to again, you know highlight, uh Get into this objective thing So my question is how can clear objectives? Serve as like a benchmark for measuring progress and helping individuals like myself and others make informed and Calculative decisions about their brand their personal brand You know objectives are they're trackable, but they should not be confused with goals Goals are for your business But objectives are for you because like I say if you're going to continue in that maturing mode of your personal brand There are certain objectives that you're going to set that you're going to set And that and it's kind of combined with the ethical part of you.
It's like how do I stay true to this game? How do I always make sure that this is what I want to do? And within this particular thing and this is why I say it's all connected the objectives the dedication and the ethics It all comes together because if i'm going to be ethical about it and i'm dedicated to it means it's as easy as breathing Then the objective is you know, what the objective is to have this impact continuously I want to see the ripple effect from it, even if i'm no longer in the industry So then what do I do continuously to make sure that this ripple effect continues? So even though i've gotten out of the game Now I support people who are in the game who are continuing the ripple effect because I this is my objective to make sure that This change happens How do I advocate for it? How do I how do I be assertive about it? And so when you're when you're contemplating objectives, it's like okay I i'm watching statistics because if I look at something statistically and the data is saying that you know what within this neighborhood There's a 20 increase in this thing or if over here There's a five percent decline then if i'm staying true to the game i'ma go over here and i'ma raise that five percent to ten percent So there are objectives that you set within what you're doing that you're a constantly a work in progress on So while objectives never actually actually have an expiration date There are things that you can check to benchmark.
Where do I need to be most effective? Where do I need to show up to make sure that this change and this impact is happening? To let people know that you know what this is what i'm all about Do I have the t-shirt the mug the pen is the bumper sticker on my car? Am I doing all the things to make sure that this can this objective? Is constantly in in my forefront to make me help better decisions of where I need to show up and how the audience that i'm Attracting am I going to collaborate with you because you have a lot of followers? Or because i'm true to this game because the objective is to stay true to the game So if you're asking me because you like my message and it's like, oh, well, I can give you exposure Y'all don't fall for the exposure shit.
Oh my god, but that's a whole nother conversation but if you're going to collaborate with someone just because they have a bunch of followers And it's going to take you outside of your zone of genius and the reputation that you've built It's hard from that. Is it really worth it? If you've decided that you know what my objective is to be effective over here But because you offer me a thousand dollars to go over there i'ma forsake What I said I was all about now you're ruining your reputation and that is not something you want to do So you set objectives that you can stay dedicated to and that's where the dedication piece comes in and I know what? We're not going to go off on that road because we're already over But like I said all of us connect and this is why I say this is your dna code And this is part of where your story comes from your core message Because this is how you're going to stay true to the game and your reputation is going to be built on this Because how you position your personal brand within the architecture of the overall brand Is a thing and you're positioning yourself within the industry the marketplace the the region or whatever of where you are All of this stuff gets to tie together with a personal brand and this is why I talk about Personal branding being strategic not just fucking showing up because you're the owner Not just fucking showing up just because you're the founder that is hilarious phyllis, thank you so much for sharing that that is super cool And people who are listening we're going to be cutting down this conversation so that we keep the excitement going on.
Honestly We are doing this short one-hour series And catch us next week so i'm going to do this show every week wednesday at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time And we're going to continue this series. We're going to speak more about personal brands And and i'm glad we were able to cover so many things within this short stipulated period of time Yeah, yeah, and and you you are a rock star phyllis and I appreciate all the uh, all the insights and Wealth of information which you share every time you're on my show and I think it all it hooks people I mean all those 9 to 11 listeners whom you see are the same people who've been listening to our crap in the past 16 minutes So shout out to those all those individuals.
Love you for Consistently staying here and helping us if you have not followed phyllis, please do that If you're not followed me, please do us only follow us if you find us authentically Real and and you really want to connect with us at a personal level and it makes sense You are not going to find any pictures of us on social media Uh, you know those kind of things it will be just pure content, right phyllis There you go Stick to what what we have originally agreed on.
So anyways guys, you know, I I thank you so much for listening to this conversation Tune us next week. We're going to be covering the remainder of chat excerpts about dedication And i'm going to speak about ethics and eventually we will get into uh the camp to the core Yes and to the core yeah those things and and that would be the chapter two of of phyllis book how communication goes both ways uh audience of your personal brand uh marketing for maximum attraction And why positioning has to be set sit in pretty sit Let's sit in pretty sitting pretty.
Yeah. Yeah All right. I really like the lingo in your book. I wish you would do a rap video where those blinks have your cigar And you know what? You know what? I want to ask you to actually name the song as code switch That would be fucking cool, you know, i'm just saying like have those nice game as thrown Now you want me to rap you are so I mean we have angelica here. She's into video.
I think she can help us out, you know, get a video done angelica, would you? Yeah I think it would be a lot of fun It just makes me think of when you're a creative soul You just think about another project you keep on putting yourself on another project Yeah, once again I I want to thank you thank you all my listeners Thank you so much for listening to this conversation You guys have a lovely morning afternoon evening wherever you're in the world.
Please. Take care of yourself. Stay in touch And tune us next week as you and thank you once again phyllis for making this conversation amazing You
