Rob

George Nieves

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TitleRob

AuthorGeorge Nieves

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Uploaded7 Apr 2024

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Okay. Are the lines wavy? A little bit wavy. Okay. Not at all. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Oh yeah, the lines got really big when I left. Yeah. Okay. Okay. In the Zoom. Yeah. I have the option. Yeah, share screen. It's right next to stop video. Yeah, share your screen so we can show you how to share your screen. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yep. Surprisingly often. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've reread the last chapter of My Favorite Thing is Monsters because I've heard that the book two is coming out in a month or two. Oh. Graphic novel published a couple of years ago now. I've never heard of the artist before. It's drawn in an unusual style. It looks like it was drawn on lined paper. They give you in school. And it's about a little girl who wants to be a monster because she thinks monsters are strong and indestructible and people leave them alone. Well, among other things, her mother is dying. Her brother is in trouble with the law. I'm trying to remember how I first heard of it. I don't actually own it and my wife got it from the library. I think she might have just seen it there and thought it looked interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's the title again? Yeah. Yes. That was my first issue of Journey into Mystery. Yes, I bought it off the stands for 12 cents. Yes. Yes. As a matter of fact, I am. I looked up the other day just to be sure because I wasn't sure. I was born before the Dodgers played their last season in Brooklyn. When I was born, there were 48 states. Lasers and satellites existed only in science fiction. I use laser printers now every day. How do I set my laser printer on stun? Yeah. Well, if plan A is using a phaser, let them stay with that. I'll be waiting a long time. Before I forget, though, if you're going to magic conventions or gatherings, as they would call them, I saw a card the other day. The license plate said MTG space B.I.Z. Do you think that's related? Yeah. MTG Magic the Gathering. Yeah. Hey. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing wrong with games. Yeah. Well, you can play trouble with her. Yeah. All right. Excellent. That reminds me of the other thing I read recently. I read. I suppose it's comics in a way. Elephant and Piggy. I read several elephant and piggy books. They are huge among beginning readers. It's basically one panel to a page, sometimes a two page spread. It's an elephant and a pig who are best friends. And it is. It is completely adorable. I had a smile on my face the whole time reading this omnibus book, a collection of five of their little storybooks. You want to mail me something, you're welcome to. Oh. It goes together. Yeah. Oh, OK. Yeah. Well, let's see. I started reading Marvel Comics and DC. When, in the last couple of months that John F. Kennedy was president. And after five to six years, I got into junior high school and spiraled into a deep depression and stopped. Yeah. Stop buying comics for a couple of years. And that. Toward the end of that period, as I was coming out of being depressed, I got interested in my comic book collection, see what I had, I reread them all. And that's when I realized that I could recognize the works of different artists by how they drew like, oh, this is Ditko. And I got back into comics really strongly about 1971. And so when Roy Thomas became editor of Marvel, I was. See, I was 72 and in 72. Later in the year, I turned 60, so I was 15 and a half then. Yeah. Sure. OK. OK. Yeah. Well. Historian. I've never actually written any comics history other than what I write on the board, but I'm interested in comics history. Yes. Comics history enthusiast. I met Roy Thomas a couple of times at conventions in the 70s. He can tell you about those conversations. And just the period when he was editor was the period when I was most focused in my life around Marvel Comics. That's the major part of my involvement. Let's see, I think I have sent him a few things over the years and gotten free issues of Alter Ego for that. Oh, you're welcome. So I. I showed him a secret message that an artist snuck into a comic that Roy had edited. Yes, let's save it all. So I mean, I was deeply into it. I bought basically everything Marvel put out except for Westerns and war comics, mostly from 1971, 72 to 1978 when I graduated from college. And a couple of weeks after graduating, I got married. And at that point, I stopped cold turkey and have never started again. Yeah. I'm not married. I'm not even married to her anymore, but I never got back to the regular buying Marvel Comics. I pick up odd things here and there. But so. Comics of the 60s and 70s are are the comics I know. Yeah. Yeah. Not that I can think of, but. I'll speak up when I if something occurs to me. OK. Yeah. Ha ha ha. OK. Rob Allen. Oh, thank you for having me. It's great to be here. Well, expansion, more comics, more genres, more sizes and shapes of comics. They were they were trying a lot of new things and. It started a little before Roy became editor in chief, but he really. Not just new series, new genres, new characters and new artists and writers he brought in or a lot of people got into the industry. So lots of good things continued and got better and lots of new things started. I was enjoying it. I was. I loved all of this stuff. I, of course, been in the 60s. I read Spider-Man and Fantastic Four and Avengers and Tales of Suspense and Astonish. But when I came back into comics after my brief hiatus in 1971 and suddenly there's Conan the Barbarian and. Kirby is gone and now they're launching new things. And just looking at what was going on the month before Roy became editor and. Kazar has taken over Astonishing Tales and the Defenders is launched. They. Ghostwriter, the first ghostwriter story, Warlock. It was those came up when when Stan, the last few months that Stan was editor and Owen Bill Everett's return to Submariner, which was so fantastically well done. I just blew me away. What Bill Everett was doing in Submariner when he came back to it with issue number 50. Yes, I did. Well, a kid at this point in May 1972, I was 15 and a half. So I'm not sure how connected I was to comics fandom, but I certainly read everything there was in the bullpen bulletins and the letters pages. So and even if I hadn't just looking at the artwork, I was really getting into different artists and their styles. And Everett was really, really unique. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Well. Well. Well. Well, he. No. No, not. And. And. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He wrote Avengers for a long time. He wrote X-Men. Those are the big ones that stick in my memory. I know he was for his own leisure reading. He was a science fiction fan, but he was aware of sword and sorcery literature and took a look and he was enough of a comics professional to realize this stuff would work really well in comics. So he's the one who initiated Marvel getting into sword and sorcery and licensing Conan. They tried licensing some other character first, but then they discovered that the rights to Conan weren't as expensive as they thought they were going to be. Nobody. I mean, Conan was published in a second rate pulp magazine in the 1930s and the number of people left to remember them were dwindling. And that's okay. Oh, Roy had a good run with gene colon on Dr. Strange in the 60s, and including the ill-advised mask version of Dr. Strange. That didn't last long. But other than that, it looked pretty good. I don't know. Well, right. Well. Oops. Well, yes, it was. It was literally magic. Well, he supposedly in the story. wanted to have his kind of superheroish activities, separate from his private life, as it were, because, you know, he had a well known home in Greenwich Village. And having everyone in the natural and supernatural universe know who he was and where to find him seemed dangerous. He wanted to be a little more anonymous as his sorcerer role. I don't think they called him sorcerer. That happened later, I think. Okay, I might be mixing it up. Yeah, somebody will fill us in, I'm sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's probably what went away. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Oh, yes. Okay. Hmm. Well, by the time of the X-Men issues with Neil Adams. God, those were real standouts. The stories and the art together, like, wow, this team is something great. And maybe. But it was a lot more interesting. Uh huh. Oh, no, it's okay. We're doing this together. And then that was see the X-Men issues with Neil were before I dropped out for a while. And then he started Conan with Barry Smith. And, and, and then in the early years of Conan were the same years, he was writing the Kree Skrull War. Yeah, and, you know, I've, I've said before that if Marvel were run like DC, the Skrulls would have appeared once and never been mentioned again. That's the way DC did things. But in Marvel, they kept things around and develop them and made them more and more interesting. And the Kree Skrull War was like, wow, of course, they've got these star spanning races that why wouldn't they run into each other? They've both been here on Earth. What a great idea. That's right. Yeah. Uh huh. Uh huh. Yeah, and that's, that's really what Roy did. I could actually agree that he didn't revolutionize things, but he built on what was there. And he built really well on what was there and made it bigger and better and greater wherever he could. So. They only had one editor then, so he was the editor. Yeah. Well. Yeah, there wasn't any other editor to eventually they had assistant editors, but Stan actually did stop writing before Roy became editor. Trying to find out about how many images. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. But, yes, he was. Well, well Martin Goodman used to look at covers to didn't he. So, yeah. But, well, now looking at the, the array of artists and writers, and when Roy took over. John Romita was still drawing Spider Man and Sal Buscema were starting their incredible run on Captain America. Rich Buckler had just joined the Marvel Universe. Let's see, they were doing Conan and Cull by the Severins, and the one that is forgotten now Gulliver Jones. Oh, he was in Creatures on the Loose was an adaptation, an adaptation of a another like very early 20th century novel. A supposedly on Mars, but of course not the same Mars as Burroughs. But, and who was drawing that these days. Well, Wayne Boren was drawing it but yeah, he was Superman, yes. Daredevil by Gene Colan, Fantastic Four, Anthor, John Buscema, Hulk by Herb Trimpey, Iron Man by George Tuska, and this is like the classic lineup of for all of these guys. They launched an Ant-Man series. Ant-Man had been gone for years. Mike Frederick and Herb Trimpey launched Ant-Man. They relaunched Doctor Strange with people like Barry Smith and Frank Brunner doing art. They launched Marvel team up with Gil Kane drawing it. Red Wolf with Sid Shores was around from the 40s. Of course I mentioned Bill Everett and Submariner. Tomb of Dracula started up with Gene Colan, and the Werewolf by Mike Plough. And when I picture those characters in my head, those are the artists I see drawing them. Pretty close to it, yeah. They're just all classics here. Well. Yeah. Roy was a good editor and let his artists and writers pretty much do what they wanted to do. Once again, as long as it didn't piss off himself or Stan. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But for editor. Well. Yeah. Jim shooter gets credit for stabilizing Marvel but I think a lot of that credit actually goes to Archie Goodwin who preceded him. Roy had a pretty high percentage of success with the stuff where he just said, here, here's a book that nobody cares about go do something. There's a pretty high percentage of success with those. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And even things that didn't last a long time. Were either very good or some cases very interesting. While they lasted. Looking at the next month that Roy was editor. Second issue of defenders. The, the first color issue of man thing in the book called fear. The second issue of Doc Savage Doc Savage had been reprinted in paperback, and was a lot of paperbacks were sold in the same stores the comics were sold in back then. My, my usual rounds back then, leaving high school, go up to the stationary store in one corner, and buy the comics that they had and go around the corner to the tobacconist, who had not only comics but also the science fiction digest. And then over to the third store that had comics and paperback books, and so I didn't actually buy Doc Savage paperbacks there but I certainly saw them. I bought Conan paperbacks around the same time that I started buying Conan comics. The Camp and Carter ones. Yeah. They see what other things that started up right then. Yeah, did they start yet I don't know when they started. Yeah. But, I mean, hero for hire launched, just before Roy became editor. And then, then they had a Western and interracial Western called gun hawks. So, oh yeah, so it's a white guy and a black guy. For the, for the first half. Not exactly. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Well, well, yeah, it had to do with him being editor because he could make the decisions. Now, of what to write. Yeah, he was. Yeah. Well, no, it implies that he put out good comics. Keep it going. It was a Western gun hawks. So that, yeah, and that, that was like the first new Western in a while, with, with new output I mean they had, they were reprinting old Wyatt Earp stories and they had something called Western gunfighters, but on the Mighty Marvel Western. So, they were going into the Western genre, and they actually started some new horror anthology color comics that combined new stories with reprints, a new version of Journey into Mystery and Chamber of Chills and Crypt of Shadows all started out, having new stories in the front and reprints in the back. That was earlier, that was earlier. Yeah. No, he was, he was. Another new genre he got into in the second month was the first issue of Jungle Action, with the reprints from the 50s. You know, there hadn't been jungle comics for a long time. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And it passes the comics code. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do just about anything. Right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even younger punks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Couldn't have stayed away from conventions for very long, because I talked to him at a couple of conventions in the 70s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Speaking, that reminds me, continuing looking through the months, the first few months that Roy was editor, the very next month after the one we talked about last, they introduced three different issues with female protagonists in three different genres. Yeah. Yes. Hello. No. Yeah. How do you become a professional? You get professional by having an experience. No, they did not do that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. How do you know that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Moving on. The next month, we have more debuts. They've had success with Dracula. They had success with The Werewolf. So they launched Frankenstein with Mike Plough drawing it. He was really on a roll then. And the other thing they launched that same month was, oh yeah, the comics code change made it possible. Yes. But creativity was, you know, yeah, if you, if they did it well, it would succeed. They also launched War is Hell, which is a really unusual war book. I guess it started out as reprints, but eventually got a I think Tony Isabella did that, come to think of it. Well, Combat Kelly, he wasn't in that one. Yeah, they started reprinting Nick Fury, Agent of Shield. They were still reprinting the monster stories from the early 60s. And for fans back then, they saw these Monster of the Month stories as kind of cheesy kids entertainment, that the really good stuff was the pre-code horror stories, like EC did. I'm hoping to see those someday. Yeah. Well, I don't know if it was those looks. Well, Yeah. Well, we have our own Supernatural thrillers started adapting classic literature and first issue, It by Theodore Sturgeon. Second issue, The Invisible Man. Yeah, that. Let's see. No, let's see. Invisible. Yeah, he did. But The Invisible Man was one of the first things drawn by Val Mayeric, another new creator that Roy brought in. Mm hmm. Yeah. Oh, this is. Oh, you know who started working for Marvel around this time? Ross Andrew. He did the first few issues of Doc Savage before he took over Spider-Man. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Stanley said to Steve Ditko, I want a spider themed character who's a teenager. And Ross was Ditko. So who created it. Well. Yeah. Well. I remember we had some discussion about the creation of Deathlock. Yeah, it was it was Rich Buckler's character and story. And Doug Munch was assigned to flesh it out and do the dialogue. So did he co-create the character? Well. Yeah. Well, you said there was. Well, Ramita probably designed the costume. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you mentioned a few minutes ago that this doesn't happen in other businesses, but in some ways it kind of does. My grandfather was a chemical engineer. He worked for Colgate-Palmolive. And in about 1946 or 47, they wanted to get into the powdered cleanser business. There were a lot of new houses being built right after World War Two. They all had porcelain sinks. People needed powdered cleanser now. So my grandfather got the assignment and he created a formula that worked well and was easy to make. And the marketing department named it Ajax. Yeah. So did he create Ajax? Well, he got an assignment from his employer. He didn't name it. He didn't do anything else. But the product that was in the package was a formula that he created. Well, he was, I don't know what kind of a team he might have led at the time, but he was a chemical engineer in the R&D department. Yeah. Yep, yep, it's there. I can't find Ajax in the stores around here. I don't know what the distribution... Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. It was. Yeah, I'm looking right now at the cover of issue 24, The Song of Red Sonja, which has got to be one of the greatest single issues ever published. What Ryan Barry Smith did there was just electric and different from anything that any other, certainly any other company was doing. I think Gold Key, of all people, had some kind of a sword and sorcery series going at the time. But Gold Key was like completely off my radar. I was buying and reading Marvel and DC and some Charlton and Warren and Skywalt, but not Gold Key. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah, Kona. And it had to have been popular because pretty soon afterward, you had Kull. And, of course, Gulliver Jones didn't last all that long, and he was replaced in Creatures on the Loose by Thongor, Lynn Carter's character, who also didn't last very long. But there was a little Easter egg, I guess, in a Thongor story that I should tell you about soon. So, yeah, Conan, he really put the character back on the map, the cultural map, and the paperback books at the same time. And, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's okay. Yeah, it was a little different in the 70s when they see Marvel house ads, and they would have the usual suspects. They'd show the Captain America and Spider-Man and the Hulk and the Thing. And then suddenly you also had Conan and Dracula. It's like, wait a minute, there's something different here. Did they eventually decide that Dracula actually does exist in the Marvel Universe with all the superheroes? I think they did. Yeah. Yeah, but... Oh, no. I don't know. Yeah. And the art that they got there, Barry Smith turned into this incredible stylist. And this is, I guess, the era when, in my head as a fan, I was seeing a lot of the superhero stories were kind of generic Marvel superhero art. And some of the books, the artists were really distinct stylists who were not trying to do generic superhero art. And Barry Smith was definitely one of them. And, you know, Mike Plough, as I mentioned, was another one. And you're not going to mistake his stuff for anybody else. Yeah. Yes, yes. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And then along with that, with Barry Smith, the Severin siblings on Kull, that was absolutely incredible work. It sold for a while. It didn't last. Oh, well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He somehow hooked up with Neil Adams, and Neil helped him get established in the US comics industry. And in a panel in Creatures on the Loose, number 29, there is a message written backwards in Spanish at the bottom of the panel that says, Esta viñeta se la dedico a Neil. This panel I dedicate to Neil. And Roy was the official editor of that book, and he didn't, never saw that. He didn't know about it. Yeah. Well, but I saw it. I noticed it in 1974. And in, what was it, like 2008, I think, Roy came up to the Emerald City Convention in Seattle, and Kurt and I went there, and I showed it to him. And he said, wow, that's really cool. And he mentioned at the time that Stan had really discouraged that kind of thing. He didn't like those secret messages from the artists putting in there. But Roy thought it was kind of fun. So he wasn't unhappy that it had happened. And he asked me to send him a scan of it, which I did, and he printed it in Alter Ego. But that same conversation was when Kurt was there and was starting to get nervous and waffled about whether or not he should talk to Roy about his Collector's Guide to Earth Two. And I just said, hey, my friend Kurt here has a project that I think you'll be interested in. And the rest of there is history. So that was a great time, that convention. Emerald City has gotten enormous since then. And of course, I haven't been since the pandemic, but that was... Well, it can come out for one of the smaller ones. There's a Portland Convention, there's a Tacoma Convention. They're not as unpleasantly overwhelming as Emerald City has become. Here's a... So they say. Yeah. In the black, yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking. Oh, goodness. Wow. That is insane. Yeah. Okay. I'm still looking through month by month, the stuff that Roy edited. And in the very same month, a couple of things came out. The debut of Kill Raven and War of the Worlds. The very first Marvel black and white magazine, Dracula Lives. Well, not the first. There was a Savage Tales one shot a few years earlier that didn't go anywhere. But the one that really started the new wave of them, Dracula Lives, came out. And the first issue of their in-house fanzine, Boom! Friends of Old Marvel. They... Yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I'm not going to miss that. Yep. There was Foom for Marvel. There was Amazing World of DC Comics. And there was the Charlton Bullseye. There were three companies that had in-house fanzines like that. Yeah, there was a... Oh, and also the same month, the first issue of Worlds Unknown, adapting science fiction stories and genuine science fiction stories. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I still have everything. No, they did. They were involved. And Nick Cuddy was a presence in the conventions that I went to in New York. And so, yes, they were definitely. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, Worlds Unknown, adapting genuine science fiction stories was something that they hadn't done before. People wrote their own science fiction stories and comics, but adapting actually well-known stories that science fiction fans would recognize. And no, no, this was a color comic first. But, yes, that was like the sequel. It was like the sequel was the magazine. In the following month, we're up to March of 73, Marvel launched a prose fiction magazine. It only lasted two issues, but it was the same size and shape as the science fiction digest magazines that were on the stands that I was buying at the time. Analog, Fantasy and Science Fiction, Galaxy, Worlds of If, Amazing Science Fiction, and Fantastic Stories. Marvel's one was called The Haunt of Horror. Yeah, that was and that was the same month as the first issue of Monsters Unleashed, the black and white magazine. And the adaptation of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in Supernatural Thrillers. So, and that's about the time when, yeah, Marv Wolfman and Gene Colan started collaborating on Tomb of Dracula. So, it's just great. Oh, and by the way, and this is, oh, that was also the month that Gwen Stacy died. Yeah, and at this point, John Buscema takes over Conan after Barry Smith takes off for Parts Unknown. So, and there's, oh, the Black Panther series starts in Jungle Action, the following month there. Oh, they also, they were also putting out a weird magazine of still pictures from horror movies with funny captions added. Yeah. Well, no, Famous Monsters had actual articles about, this was just a series of basically what we would call now memes. They would take an existing picture and put new words on it. Hmm. Ah. Yeah. And then Tales of the Zombie came out. Yeah, Tales of the Zombie. Yes, that, yeah, that's, that's a good one. Yeah. And then Tales of the Zombie came out. Yeah, Tales of the, yes, that, yeah, that's, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's only one editor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is the era when Englehart was writing Avengers, the Celestial Madonna stories. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that somewhere before. Yeah. Yeah, why not. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And. Yeah. Oh. Just kind of fell into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We, we see the beginning of Vampire Tales magazine, the debut of the Living Mummy. That series didn't last all that long but, and they're still publishing. Yeah. Well, you know, Billy Graham is starting to draw Luke Cage. Yeah. Yeah. And they've got reprint books like crazy, of course, but Warlock is still going on in its original run. You know, the cat and Shanna and all are still, still running. It's getting into 73. The middle of 73. They started doing annuals again. They hadn't done any in a while. I don't know. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Well, when Kirby did come back to, when Kirby did come back to Marvel, it was announced at the one of the two conventions that Marvel itself sponsored. And it was, I think of the first day at the middle of the day was on the schedule it said it was a keynote address by Stan Lee. And I was there in the room. It's a room full, a room full of true believers facing front. And, yeah. And as, as it got closer to the beginning of the scheduled time, it was like a wave after wave of information would spread across the room. First wave was fairly quiet. It says, oh, Stan's right here. He's outside the door. Stan's right here. He's about to come in. Like, oh, there's somebody with Stan. There's somebody here with Stan. There's something going on here. And then the next wave, it's Kirby. Kirby's here. Kirby is here with Stan. Kirby's here. And then the next wave was, he's coming back. He's coming back to Marvel. Kirby's coming back. Kirby is coming back. Oh, God, that was an amazing moment. If only his actual return had gone as well as that introduction did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And the next day at the convention, they had their costume contest, and they somehow corralled Kirby to be one of the judges. And the way they had it set up, the judges were on one end of the stage, and the contestants would enter on the other end of the staircase and kind of parade in front of the audience and over toward the judges and then off. And, like, about the third contestant was dressed as the Thing. And he just bounded on stage, ignored the audience, ignored everybody, made a beeline over to Kirby, and shook his hand. And when Kirby shook hands with the Thing, everybody in the place with a camera took a picture. And if you remember what flashbulbs were, the flashbulbs was just enough to blind you. Yeah, that was another amazing moment to be in. Yeah. I'm in 73. Well, I'm scrolling as fast as I can. Uh... I know, it's late. It's way... It is way too late. Savage Tales, they revived a black-and-white magazine for Conan, which evolved... It evolved into Savage Sword. The next month, they did their Mad Magazine imitation crazy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The first Savage Tales, the one before Roy was editor. That's OK. The... Yeah. Oh, the next same month as that was Brother Voodoo. Another not exactly classic. I believe so. We'll probably get there, yeah. What? Oh, yeah. Yeah, Starlin takes over Captain Marvel and turns him into something really interesting for a change. The green and white? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the revival of the Sub-Mariner with the sort of vest and the... Oh, the revival of the Sub-Mariner with the sort of vest and tights instead of just the speedo. With the little wings? Yeah, with the little wings. Yeah, the weird wonder tales where they started reprinting the Dr. Droon stories, the ones that preceded Fantastic Four. Mm-hmm. Ah, the beloved by many people It series by Tony Isabella and Dick Ayers, debuted September of 73. Let's see, September of 73 would have been the first month of my senior year of high school. Which, if you do the math, I sure was. All the way through college for me, man. If you do the math, you'll figure out that my 50-year high school reunion is coming up later this year. Yeah. Son of Satan. That starts out. Oh, and here's an issue of Special Marvel Edition featuring someone's hands. The hands of Shang-Chi, Master of Kung Fu. Yeah, there we go. Yes. Now, Master of Kung Fu, it reminds me of a line that my father liked for some reason. He said, many men smoke, but Fu men chew. E-I-E-I-O. Ah. Okay, yeah. I'm looking at things on sale on October of 73. Yeah, looks like nothing is brand new. Oh, the first issue of Man-Thing. Dr. Strange is still in Marvel Premiere. No, not yet. They changed the title of the monster Frankenstein to Frankenstein Monster. They put it under F instead of M, I guess. Oh, there's a debut of a guy with a skull on his chest. The Punisher in Spider-Man. Yeah. Yes, well, some people say he still is. Then in November, we get the beginning of the Morbius series. And when did they get to the giant size stuff? Was that 74? I don't know. Oh, it's somewhere around here, December 73. In the beginning, in the 60s, Martin Goodman had all these publishing company names. And all of his comics, if you look at the indicia, the actual publishing company was some completely different name. But by the end of the 60s, when they got their own distribution in-house, they changed it. And they all said published by Marvel Comics Group. And suddenly, around the end of 73, some of the black and white magazines started saying published by Cadence Comics Publications, Inc. And at a convention shortly thereafter, I happened to be talking with Roy Thomas. And being the geek that I am, I asked him, who is Cadence Comics Publications? And he told me that this was a Canadian subsidiary that they set up to try to alleviate the problems they were having with the paper shortage. The paper shortage was a big, big deal in late 73, early 74. And they could not get enough paper to print the comics they wanted. And apparently, Canada had more paper available. So they set up a company in Canada to buy paper to print on. So that was one of my other encounters with Roy Thomas. I'm not sure if that's the same time, but it was either that time or one other. I happened to run into him in a convention hallway. And I quickly rifled through the comics I'd purchased that day. And I picked out the Hulk issue with a character called The Glob, which he had written, and asked him to sign that one. And he was genuinely pleased that I'd chosen that one. He was proud of that issue. Kazar graduates to his own book. He's still got Son of Satan, and Doctor Strange, and Dracula. Yeah. Oh. Ah, OK. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the other thing they started around that time was Marvel 2 and 1, the Thing series. Yeah. Oh, Cull changes from the Conqueror to the Destroyer. Yes. Yeah. And Mike Plude did some good work there. But somehow the magic that the Severns had was gone at that point. Too bad. Oh, Luke Cage changes his name to Power Man. Yeah, I guess we have to wrap this up. This was such a great era for comics. There it is. Giant Size. The Giant Size line starts with a giant. There it is. Giant Size. The Giant Size line starts coming out in February of 1974. And that was the first attempt in a few years to really change the physical format of comics and get somewhat a larger and slightly more expensive package. And it lasted a couple of years, but ultimately failed. But they really gave it a big push. Mm hmm. Yep. Mm hmm. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. 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Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Yeah. I. Mm. Yes. Yeah. I hope so. And I was. There's also the question of the sales figures being almost completely inaccurate because of affidavit return fraud. Yeah. Nobody knew how many they were selling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. We need to wrap up. Yeah. Okay. Oh, thanks. Oh, it was fun. Yep.