Student Voices Ep1

The first episode of the Student Voices Podcast focuses on highlighting student perspectives on educational inequities. The Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity started the podcast in 2020 to address social injustices in education. Jackson Bryant, a senior at Cumberland International Early College High School, shares his passion for education and desire to become a producer and writer to expand the narrative and criteria for Black stories in media. He also discusses the disparities in academic and disciplinary issues among students of different races in his county. Black History Month is seen as an opportunity to celebrate and acknowledge the contributions of Black individuals who have been historically overlooked. Jackson believes that Black history should be taught year-round and integrated into all history courses. He finds inspiration in Tyler Perry, who has created opportunities for African American creatives in the entertainment industry. Welcome, Lifelong Learners, to the first episode of the Student Voices Podcast. We are so excited to have you join us in our purpose of highlighting student perspectives to co-create an equitable educational system. This podcast provides a platform for students across the state to share their perspectives on educational inequities in classrooms, schools, and districts, and their dreams of an equitable educational system. If you are new to the Student Voices or the Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity, we want to share a little history with you. The Dudley Flood Center is dedicated to eradicating educational inequities and started the Student Voices series in 2020 to demonstrate the capacity of students to discuss and provide on the social injustices facing our country and schools. To learn more about the Student Voices program or the Flood Center, please check out our website at floodcenter.org. I'm your host, Rafiki Kukoi, and we are joined today by Jackson Bryant, who will share their thoughts and perspectives. Jackson, please share a little bit about yourself. Hello, everyone. My name is Jackson Bryant. I am a senior at Cumberland International Early College High School in Fayetteville, North Carolina. A few things about myself, my free time, I enjoy playing tennis. I am on my school's speech and debate team, and I'm also involved in student government. And I just love talking about education, examining disparities, and hopefully contributing in some way to leveling those disparities and equaling the playing field. That's incredible, Jackson. I love to hear how involved you are. Do you have a favorite tennis player by chance? Do I have a favorite tennis player? I mean, of course, Serena and Venus are at the top of my list, but I like Nadal as well. Oh, yeah, you hit all the classics. I don't watch a ton of tennis, but I'm a huge fan. Do you happen to know what you might want to do after you graduate high school, or I guess not early college? Yes. After high school, I want to study cinema and media studies with the hopes of becoming a producer and a writer. For me, media is the most impressionable way to convey thoughts, to shape people's thinking, because it's something that we're doing subconsciously. When we're watching TV, we're not expecting to learn from it, but oftentimes we do. We've seen shows, especially shows like Grey's Anatomy, House of Cards, where they're talking about medicine and politics. We've seen recently where there have been waves of people on social media who have been inspired by those shows to follow those career paths. Growing up, I noticed that there was a single-sided narrative depicted of African Americans in media. It was oftentimes, you have to make it out of the ghetto or the hood by selling drugs or rapping. While those are very true and real stories for many African Americans, those aren't the only stories. I believe that we have to shift away from that narrative, and we have to be more inclusive of what our criteria is for a Black story. It's my hope and dream to expand that narrative and to expand that criteria. I am very passionate about politics, so I would love to make a Black political thriller or drama similar to House of Cards or Scandal, and really hone in on the intricacies of politics and how they affect qualities of life, because especially in today's time, politics plays such a crucial role in all of our lives. I don't think that we have had access to the information to understand how important politics are and how they affect us. I want my community to be as educated on politics as possible. That's my ultimate goal, to become a producer, expand the narrative, and hopefully educate. Let me tell you this, Jackson. We, our country, and our communities, we need you and your work. Personally, I would love to watch that television show. That sounds like an amazing concept. I'm surprised I actually haven't seen it done before. On that same note, I definitely relate to the experience you shared with feeling underrepresented in media. I remember the first time I watched Black Panther, I think I had descended. It was the first time I had seen West Africa, where my parents are from, portrayed in such a positive, powerful, and rich light in media. For the first time, I felt like I had seen a representation of myself on the big screen for the first time. Another instance, just this past summer, I watched Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse featuring Miles Morales, a smart, young, Black kid from New York City, doing things like Spider-Man. It's funny, actually, because Tyler Scambino actually really pushed the idea of Miles Morales on social media before this was ever a thing, and he received so much pushback. There's a great video by him talking about this that if you look it up on YouTube, you can probably find it. But he just shares how he had all these angry comic book fans in his Twitter DMs talking about, you know, Spider-Man can never be Black, and you know why they were saying that? They're like, there are no smart Black kids in New York City who like science and to build things, and that's ridiculous. That's what happens when we don't see diverse media promoting narratives about Black children and Black youth in America who are just regular human beings. It's not always that demoralizing story pushed in the media. So I'm very, very excited to see the work that you're going to do, Jackson. Thank you so much for that passion and dedication. It's definitely going to make a lot of people around you better. And you're a part of Student Voices, correct? Yes. Could you talk to us a little bit about what you focused on for your Student Voices project? Yes. I talked about academic and behavioral disparities, behavioral discipline disparities in my county. And so each public school and system in North Carolina, they have on their website a annual report. You get to see the statistics for all the students who are competent or below average in the different subject areas. And so what I found was that there was a high, high disparity amongst Black and students of color against Asian and white. So we were far less college-ready when it came to the core subjects. We were over-represented in being below grade level. We were over-represented in disciplinary issues, so in-school and out-of-school suspensions. And that was across the board at many different high schools. Cumberland County is unique because my city in particular, we are about half and half, half Black, half white, and then a mixture of other races. And so our school system is the same. So we have actually more African-American students than we do white, but yet we are not represented well when it comes to academic excellence. We don't – even though we are – our population is greater, when it comes to academic performance, we aren't represented. Wow. Educational inequity is a huge issue, and it's really inspiring to hear about your project. Now, let's get into this. With Black History Month being a time for both reflection and celebration, what does the month of February mean to you personally, and how do you think it should be recognized in educational settings? For me, Black History Month is the opportunity to commemorate and acknowledge Black people who have contributed to society, but whose stories were suppressed or just simply not acknowledged. There have been so many historical figures who have made scientific, entertainment, mathematical contributions to society and the advancement of society, yet their stories remain untold. And so this month gives us the opportunity to research and find those figures and really acknowledge and celebrate their work, because many of them weren't celebrated while they were alive. So at least this gives us an opportunity to do so in their passing. I think that Black history should be taught in the classrooms, number one, year-round, because Black history is American history. We have made just as much contributions to the progression of American society as any other race. And so I don't think that our history being told should be limited to one month. I think it should be integrated in all history courses, because in every facet of our society, there has been a Black person that's contributed. And so I think that that is essential, making for sure that we are acknowledged year-round and that we are talking about the stories that previously weren't told. So, so, so important. And on that note, can you talk about any particular figures in Black history who have inspired you or influenced your educational journey? Yes. So I'm going to say Tyler Perry. And while he is not a historical figure, he is definitely making history while he's alive. We're seeing recently with the reprisal of the color purple, they really honed in on the disparities in the entertainment industry. And so as a community, as a culture, we are very prominent in the entertainment community, whether it's in film and television or music. We are just a dominant culture in American society. Yet that is not always reflected in the pay. There is a strong disparity in the payment between African Americans and whites, especially amongst African American women. And so it's not often that we're in positions of power to level that playing field. And Tyler Perry put himself in that position. He didn't wait for anyone to invite him to the table. He created his own table. And not only that, he invited his people to the table and ensured that the experience that they had was something that was equal to the experience that others have had in the entertainment industry. And so I think it is very powerful that he, despite all of the things that he had holding him back, especially in his childhood, he was able to achieve this incredible amount of success, but then also bring up other African American creatives and talented people and create this experience that they probably wouldn't have if it wasn't for him being in that position. Jax, I'm going to be honest there, man. Of all the names I was considering in my head, Tyler Perry was not one that came to mind. However, I think what you shared is so true, so thought provoking, and it really goes to underline the core concept of student voices, elevating the voices of students like you who can share their unique perspectives and really push new narratives out in the media. So I will say Tyler Perry is a great cinematographer. Do you have a favorite movie by him? So I was definitely too young to be watching this when I started watching, but Medea, Diary of a Mad Black Woman. That was his first installment of the series and first movie that he made. I watched it every weekend growing up, every weekend. And while the Medea series seems very trivial, if you really pay attention, there are so many life lessons that can be learned through those films. The character herself, she always provides lessons. You just have to really look for them. The movie overall, I like how the main character, Helen, she became lost in, I guess, this elevated lifestyle that her husband provided for her, and that became the center of her life. And so by losing that, she was able to establish what and who was really important. And I think that's such a great life lesson that anyone of any race can learn of knowing what is real and what we should value, because we often get caught up in the physical things that don't really matter. That's a very, very good takeaway from that movie, I'd say, although there are a lot. And this is just being incredibly funny. Now, transitioning from historical Black History Month figures to figures in your own life, reflecting on your own educational experience, is there a particular teacher, mentor, or educator who has inspired you or influenced your own educational journey? What message would you like to convey to them here and now to acknowledge the role they've played in your life? Yes, I would have to say my seventh grade math teacher was definitely the most impressionable teacher that I've had in my academic career. His ability to not only do his job by, of course, teaching me math, but also feed in and affirm me, that was just very important. He always talked about my potential and what he believed that I was capable of. And that, especially as a young kid, it's so important to have those positive affirmations. And so I was just, and still am, very, very thankful for his willingness to not only do his job, but go a step further by taking a genuine interest in me and the development of my success. He actually is the one who inspired me to start doing speech and debate. He started a debate team at our school. And now that's something that I have continued into high school. And that's been something that has allowed me to cultivate my skills, my public speaking skills, interacting with other people and networking. And so I just am so thankful for all the contributions that he's made to my life. And so if I could say anything to him, it would definitely be thank you. Thank you for making me feel seen and heard. Teachers don't get paid enough for what they do. They are some of the most important figures, yet we don't treat them like that. And so the fact that he was able to do his job, but then also speak into his students and care about them, I just think was very important. It's definitely been very impactful in my life. And when was the last time that you spoke to the teacher? It was in January of 2021. So it's been about three years, over three. Well, to me, it seems like sending him this podcast episode would be a great way to say thank you and reconnect with him. But just a big thank you to all the educators listening. You guys are so important, undervalued. And as you can hear here from Jackson and from me myself, the work that you do does not go unnoticed in your changing lives. That's great. That's a great story. Now, on the theme of the classroom, as we mentioned, there can be a lot of good in there, whether that's from a class you really enjoy, a professor you really enjoy. But fortunately, there's also a lot of bad that's being mixed in at the moment. A recent Pan America report found that 30% of the unique titles banned in the 2022-2023 school year were books about race, racism, or that featured characters of color. The majority of these book bans occurred in the South, down here. Have you seen similar conversations or challenges surrounding book choices or even diverse curricula in your school? And if so, what have your experiences with representation and literature been like in your English classroom? Fortunately, I have not encountered that. The North Carolina General Assembly definitely is a Republican-led legislature. And so that's the consistency that we're seeing in the South. But fortunately, we haven't encountered too much of that. So I haven't had a personal experience with that. So I can't really attest too much to that. Oh, good. Yeah. And I know, so I am a sophomore in college right now, but it wasn't too long ago that I was in high school. And I remember one of the first books I read by an author of color in school, it's not the first book, but it's Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi in my junior year of high school. It was a great book looking at the African legacies that have been passed on to generational African-Americans in the United States, in addition to the legacies that continue on in African culture over in Africa today. And I'm wondering, have you had any experiences with books where you felt connected to the characters because of their diverse background or shared life experiences? That is a great question. Well, this is a very interesting moment. But at the Color of Education, the keynote speaker, I forget the name of the author, he has, he's a comic book author. And one of the common themes that he likes to show in his books is the diversity within the Black community. And so oftentimes in literature, we are the Black stories associated with struggle. And so he wanted to kind of diverge away from that. And so his book, New Kid, I definitely resonated with the main character and a lot of the experiences that he had. And so I was just really grateful for that, for acknowledging that there is, I guess, a bit of a monolithic depiction of us in literature. And so his ability to recognize that and then take actionable steps to kind of go away from that, I really appreciate it. Very, very well said, Jackson. I'll add that his name was Jerry Craft. He's an incredible author. And we were very lucky to have him as one of our keynote speakers at the Color of Education. I also see some parallels between what you described and liking with Jerry's work and Tyler Perry's work. It's so important to highlight that, as you said so eloquently, the Black experience is not a monolith and that there's so much diversity within our race and culture. And so it's really important to promote diverse narratives in the media. And that's how we need to continue to put people of color in those roles that are sharing stories about people from different backgrounds and experiences. Thank you for sharing. Now, in 2024, we're seeing over half of the global population vote for the first time in a very long time, if not in history. In light of this being an election year for the United States, the topics of civil rights and activism gain even more prominence and urgency. What have you learned about the significance of the civil rights movements and activism within the context of our current political landscape? I've realized that a lot of the things that we have, well, that our ancestors and those that have come before us have fought for, especially during the civil rights movement, um, when it wasn't that long ago. And a lot of the things that they were fighting for are things that we have to fight for today. They just have, the presentation of them has changed, but they're a lot of the same things. And so we're seeing a lot of issues with like voters rights and how we can, how lawmakers are trying to suppress the Black vote. That is something that, you know, civil rights leaders fought tirelessly for to make sure that Black people were able to vote and it was accessible for them. We're seeing some of the same things with education. Like you said, they're banning books nationwide, but especially here in the South. And that's something that we fought, that our people fought for, for our history to be told, especially in literature. And so I think it's very interesting and disheartening that some of the same things that were happening in the 1960s that people, quite frankly, died for are some of the same issues that we're fighting for today. Yes, history definitely repeats itself. And people don't take the time to listen and act on those historical lessons so that we don't see these same cycles of oppression continue. You mentioned several things ranging from voters rights to education and really for our history to be told in literature. How do you see these lessons inspiring you or shaping your actions and aspirations, especially in a time when your voice and participation are more important than ever? Everything that's going on in our climate today definitely tells me that we can't afford to rest and we can't afford to get comfortable because unfortunately we live in a society where there will always be, I'm not saying the entire country, but there will always be a group of people who will try to suppress us. And so it is our duty as people of color to fight against that and to ensure that we are leveling the playing field, not just for ourselves, but those that come after us. Because we have people that came before us who broke glass walls, who leveled the playing field. And so we have to continue that and pass that on by making sure that we try to promote equality for the generations that will come after us. And it's difficult because we're trying to level the playing field, but then we're taking steps back at the same time. So it's difficult to try to promote equality when you're trying to fight for what you already have. And so it's just, it's an endless fight. But everything that's going on lets me know that I have to, because if I don't, then the freedoms that others that came before me secured, people that come after me might not have them if I don't step up and do what I need to do. I have a lot of thoughts on that. First of all, let me tell you, you've got a job coming up in preaching, educating, anything of public speaking, really. I really liked when you said, we can't afford to rest. We can't afford to get comfortable. That's a bar. That's a huge bar. And it's, we really are standing on the shoulders of giants that have come before us. And it's so important that we don't pull the ladder up behind us. We've seen in higher education attacks on practices such as affirmative action. We've had our own legislators and justices pull up the ladders that helped them in their journey that was supposed to help promote equity. And then now they're using it to oppress people of color that are coming to follow. And it's actions like that, as you said, that forced us to take steps backwards. We're trying so hard to climb forward. But again, as you said, I'm going to restate it because it was that good. We can't afford to rest. We can't afford to get comfortable. So it's so important to keep it persistent. And the words you shared were so inspiring. As we're in an election year, again, are you learning anything about the civil rights movement and activism in school right now? Or even just in the media? How does it inspire you? I am not taking high school courses at this moment. I'm an early college student. So I'm not taking a political science or history class. I'm not really focused on the social aspects of education and academia. But definitely in the media. Definitely learning about some of the pivotal points that we've had in our history. And then once again, how I said before, how history is repeating itself. But I do acknowledge the shift that's happening. So we're seeing a lot of organizations who are acknowledging Black History Month at a different, at a heightened level. They're acknowledging some of the history makers who weren't previously acknowledged. And so I think that's very inspiring to see all these global organizations, whether it's on their Instagram or on their website, acknowledging Black History Month, not just acknowledging it, but also spreading information and knowledge. Because that's how we grow, is by learning. And so I really appreciate that. Absolutely. You see in these Black Banning campaigns, what they're targeting is information. They're targeting knowledge, because knowledge is power. Knowledge is what moves and shapes people to take action against historical and current inequities. So as you said, it's really, really important to see these organizations pushing out current information to make sure that people are educated to take the next steps in promoting equity. Given the educational landscape at the time, what advice would you give younger students listening right now about navigating the school system as a student of color? I can tell from talking to you and just the way that you speak, you've done that very, very successfully. Thank you. The advice that I would give any student, but especially a student of color, is to stay true to your convictions. Stay true to your convictions. If you feel as though you're being taught a watered-down version of something, if you feel like you're not being treated equally, you have to stick up for yourself. Because there's something that my mom always tells me, people treat you the way you allow them to. And so if we settle for a treatment, then that's something that we will always receive. But if you stick up for yourself, and while it may be incredibly frightening and incredibly unfair that we have to do this, that we have to have these conversations, it must be done. So I would just encourage them to just stay true to their convictions, even when it's frightening to do so, always do it. Because what you do impacts yourself, but it also impacts others around you. So for instance, if you have an encounter with a teacher who maybe is treating you unfairly, if you stand up to that teacher, if you report that teacher, that's not just affecting your interaction with them, it's affecting that teacher's interaction with all the students of color. It's showing them that this is not okay, and this is not something that we'll settle for. And so I would just say that's the most important thing, just staying true to the things that you feel are right. Again, we've got to get you on your own talk show. And I really love that quote by your mother, too. I see it runs in the family. People do speak to you a way that you allow them to do so. So it's so important to nip these accidents in the bud as we see them. It is unfair, as you stated, for us to have to take on that additional burden, but that work is so important, again, and clearing barriers for people that are going to follow us. And I just want to close this out with a reference to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and a question for you. Dr. King delivered his iconic I Have a Dream speech on August 28, 1963, painting a vision of equality and justice that continues to inspire generations. As we approach the 100th anniversary of that momentous day in 2063, now just 39 years away, it invites us to dream about the future, particularly in the realm of education, which was so close to Dr. King's heart. With that historical milestone in mind, I'd love to hear about your vision for the future of our classrooms. If we were to achieve the educational equity that visionaries like King aspire to, what does your dream classroom look like in 2063? What would be different? What would be the same? Thinking of this question, I'm reminded of a quote spoken by, I believe, a member of a tribe in Africa, and the member said, history is told from the conqueror's perspective, meaning that whoever was in power, whoever ended up victorious, often is the one who gets to tell the history. And so in the future, I would like to see history told from, I guess, a true perspective, one that adequately represents what really happened from both sides. And so I've encountered so many times where I thought I knew the truth about something, but then I've taken a higher level course. I found out that that's not what happened at all. And this was told from a isolated situation from people who came in, conquered a land, and then they went and told the history to a way that benefits them. And so I think that's incredibly dangerous because it diminishes reality, it diminishes the truth. And then it's disrespectful to the people who are on the opposite side of that story. And so a lot of the times, we were on the opposite side of that story, and our story weren't truly told. And so I believe that America is just as much our country as it is theirs. And so I believe that our history should be told just as much as it is theirs. And so I don't think that we should learn about historical Black figures just in February. I think we need to learn about it all the time. I think we need to learn about some of the pivotal moments in history that we contributed to. I think we need to hear about those from our perspectives as well. There needs to be a level playing field because we have contributed just as much to the success of this country, but yet that's not acknowledged 365 year round. That's incredible. Yeah. That reminds me, actually, of last month at a New Hampshire town hall, Nikki Haley refused to actually make mention of slavery when asked to name the cause of the Civil War. She was the former governor of South Carolina, a state where I used to live. She actually lived in my town. And I know that that narrative was also pushed out of my school system. Slavery was mentioned mildly as a cause of the Civil War, but it was something that was often whitewashed and overlooked. Looking at Nikki Haley's example, it's clear that these misconceptions are dangerous and they're continuing to be weaponized in our political and educational system. I know you alluded to having taken basic courses and being taught whitewashed histories, then taking advanced courses later and finding out the real truth. Something similar actually happened to me in the classroom this past fall. I was taking an English class, English, Medicine, Literature, and Culture, a professor throughout Pillow over at UNC, and we were studying, quote unquote, the father of gynecology, J. Marion Sims. He had a statue erected in New York City for decades, honoring his research in the field of gynecology. However, what he really did was experiment on Black women who were his slaves, and he used no anesthetics. These experiments were very, very painful, dehumanizing, and they did nothing to actually benefit the Black women themselves, only the people to follow. It's very devastating today to see attacks on women's health and to see these continued disparities in access to care disproportionately impacting Black Americans. So, what we're seeing again and again and again are Black bodies used for the benefit of white America and the way that those legacies continue to hurt us today. So, that's why it's so important to make sure our classrooms keep us educated on the real stories, because we cannot continue to glorify and spread these false narratives from the past that highlight the pressures other than demanding equity and justice from the foundations to the effects that are still felt today. Yes, I definitely agree. Going back to your excerpt about Nikki Haley, I think we're at a time in history where a lot of things are becoming known. So, a lot of the, I guess, dark secrets of the past that were suppressed are coming to light. And so, I think certain people are threatened by that. They're threatened by their image being, I guess, changed by society based off the things that have happened in the past. And I can understand that to an extent, because no one wants to be perceived negatively. And so, it's difficult to do that, you know, when you have such a difficult past, especially in this country. But at the same time, if we don't acknowledge the things that have happened in the past, if we don't acknowledge these dirty, dark secrets, there's no way to learn and grow from them. I don't believe in holding people accountable to something that they didn't do, because at the end of the day, they can't help what their ancestors did. But I believe that they're at fault if they don't have a willingness to learn about it and then grow from it so that they don't repeat those same actions. Yep, it's so important to make sure that we learn from history, not ignore it just because it's painful. I think that's a thing that's very prevalent in the minds and the words of the many people who are attacking what they deem critical race theory, when really they were attacking the idea that America was inherently unjust from its founding. Something I want to bring to attention is the Leandro case in the North Carolina Supreme Court right now. In 1994, the Supreme Court in North Carolina originally took up this case. The case ruled that all students in North Carolina have the constitutional right to a sound basic education. Unfortunately, that's being challenged right now in the courts. Again, it's happened many times, but funding from the government and support from the government is so important in making sure that schools have the resources to close those educational inequities you discussed. But I also want to say that it goes farther than just funding. We have equity frameworks from all levels of the school process, looking at policies such as tracking, looking at what students are being challenged and pushed to take the honors classes, to take the AP classes, looking at bias in teachers. You talked about behavioral disparities. You talked about discipline disparity rates, defense disparity rates. That's all stuff that can be tackled at the bias level as well. So we're going to definitely need a multidimensional solution. But again, it's so, so inspiring to hear about young people like you who are bringing attention to these issues while you're actually encountering them. So kudos to you, Jackson. And that brings us to the end of our very first episode of the Student Voices podcast. I'm your host, Rukimi Kukuri, and thank you so much to our listeners for tuning in. We want to thank our guest, Jackson Bryant, for his insightful contributions and for sharing his personal experiences with us all today. We'd also like to thank the Sandra Conway Foundation and the Burroughs Welcome Fund for supporting the work of the Dudley Flood Center for Educational Equity and Opportunity. We are also excited to share that we are looking for a theme song for this podcast and want students to help us create it. If you are a K-12 student who would like to learn how you can share your talent by creating a theme song for this podcast, please visit our website, floodcenter.org slash student-voices slash. To our listeners, we hope today's conversation has sparked your curiosity and inspired you to think about the changes you'd like to see in our educational environments. Remember, your voice matters, and it's through conversations like these that we can begin to shape a more inclusive and representative future. Please join us for the next episode, where we'll continue to explore themes that push educational equity forward and bring light to the voices that need to be heard.