Hormozi & Daniel G Greatest Sales Interview

The individual being interviewed is a successful entrepreneur and author who has sold multiple companies. He learned sales through his experience owning gyms and running Facebook ads. He developed his sales skills by conducting in-person consultations and gained a lot of practice. He eventually scaled his sales team and trained them using a short script focused on handling objections. He believes that asking questions and letting the customer agree with themselves is more effective than making statements. He emphasizes the importance of closing the sale and not talking oneself out of it. So we are sitting down with an individual right now, massive entrepreneur, best-selling author of three books, exited seven companies, sold one of them for 46 and a half million, now is a managing partner with his amazing wife, Layla, of acquisitions.com, which you guys manage a portfolio of over $200 million? Yeah, right now we have 10 companies that do about $200 million a year. Wow, insane. So my audience watches, they know I don't collaborate with a lot of salespeople. Now, when I watch you, bro, your stuff, it makes so much sense, and it's so digestible. You'll hear a lot of sales trainers, and it all sounds the same. My first question is this, where the did you study sales, bro? Like, who was it from? Where did it start? Who did you study? Was it Brian Tracy? Where did you learn from? So really interesting. I actually only learned about the sales world after I'd already done 4,000 sales. And that was in gym launch? That was in my gyms. So I started as a brick and mortar gym owner. And so I remember the first time I was like, it's actually funny, because I graduated from college, and one of my dad's friends was like, hey, you should work at my office. He was a wealth manager. Yeah. And he was like, you'd work in sales. And I was like, I'm not a salesman. I'm an academic. You know, I'm a student. And he was like, all right, man, whatever. And so I ended up getting into fitness. And then as soon as I opened my doors, I was like, shoot, how am I going to get money? I was like, I got to get these strangers to give me money. And then I guess that's when I started realizing I had to sell. And so all of the sales that I learned was literally face-to-face, in person. So I was very fortunate that I learned how to run Facebook ads in 2013. So really, really early to Facebook ads. And so I was able to get leads really cheap. And so for basically like four or five years, I took 20 in-person consults a day. And so I got a lot of reps. And so what ended up happening is I started developing my team, is that I had more and more locations. And I closed at such a high percentage, also just because I got more reps than anybody else, that they would just start stacking. They'd stack like a week's worth of sales for me. And I would go to like Le Havre one day and do 25 sales. And then I would go to my La Mirada location, do 25 sales. Then I'd go to Huntington Beach, and I'd do another 25 sales. And so- And you weren't training at this time. You were just doing them. No, yeah, I was just selling. Yeah, just selling. Yeah, just selling. But you weren't like listening to sales training? No, I didn't even know that world existed. I didn't know what the whole world existed at all. I only found out about it when I wanted to scale my sales team. So I had six gyms. I sold those. And then I started doing gym turnarounds. So I started, because I was really good at marketing sales for the gyms. So I was like, man, I fill my gyms up so fast that I was like, I honestly just need gyms to fill up so I can do more sales. Right. And so then it was like, well, I'll just find empty gyms and say, hey, let me sit at the front door. I'll fill it up. And that way I had all this capacity I could sell into. And we would get 30 to 1 on our ad spend. And so I'd spend a grand, or I'd spend 10 grand and make a lot of money in 30 days. And so I would average about $100,000 in cash collected in 21 days of me just sitting at the front of a gym. And I did 33 turnarounds over two years, just basically doing that model. And so it was just like Alex with a fold-out table and pens and contracts. And I would just hold court. And I would set three appointments an hour or every 30 minutes. And two out of three would show. And sometimes three out of three would show. And sometimes one out of three would show. And I would just do the same pitch over and over and over again. And so I'm sure that once you start, you start breathing the script more than you start knowing it. And I think you start realizing how people work. And what was interesting is that the sales training that I had when I started doing the turnaround, because then I was like, you know what? If I can do one of these, if I had 10 guys, then we could do 10 turnarounds a month. I mean, that'd be crazy. And so I scaled the sales team up to eight guys at the time. And each of those guys was now taking 20 appointments a day at different gyms across the country. And the sales training that I had for those guys was like 60 minutes, the whole thing. Right. And it was because it wasn't like I was trying to sell sales training. I just needed them to close. And so it was just like when a person walks in the door, this is what you say. You say, hey, you want to see the world's shortest door? And then you walk into the gym and you turn around because they don't care about the tour anyways. Right. And they get a laugh. And then you're like, awesome. So what brought you in today? What's the thing you're struggling with? And so what happened is like right off the bat, if someone said something like, oh, you know, I just want to find out more information. I'm like, oh, you just opt in to lots of different stuff, getting information or trying to solve a problem. I was like, I'm assuming you're just not trying to get information for lots of things. They're like, oh, well, you know, I'm trying. The thing is, if you don't confront that, then later they're like, well, I just wanted to find out. But if you admit the problem, then it's like we can move forward in the sale. And so basically every one of the six or seven key questions that we had in the sale, it's like here are the four or five offshoots that people are going to throw at you that we need to make sure that we handle. Right. And when you mean offshoots, you mean objections. Yeah, exactly. Got it. And so I just want to make sure that people were handling those things because it's like we have had this one conversation more times than anyone else has. There is no way they should be able to say anything that we have not heard before. Right. So you have no excuse to be unprepared for anything that Susie says when she comes in the door. She's going to say she has to think about it. She's not sure if these workouts are right for her. What if it doesn't work for her body type? She has low thyroid. She has to talk to her husband. She has to look at a couple other gyms. She wants to have time to make the decision. She doesn't have the card she wants to use. It's a little bit too much. Like there's not that many things, right? There's not that many things that she's going to bring up. And so we just need to know how we can thoughtfully walk through that without seeming like hardcore sales. And so like my whole objective was to teach people to close, not to sell sales training. And so all the stuff that I've had that I talk about now is just the stuff that I use to train my team. And so right now, a lot of our sales trainings are actually very, very short. And most of the effort, like if we buy a company, so we just bought a company and we added a 40-person sales team from zero to 40 people in 90 days, taking basically ascension calls. So that company had an automated sales process on the front end selling like kind of an e-commerce thing. And I was like, man, if we just call those people and just sold them something else, it'd probably make us more money. And it did. And so the idea was like, okay, well, how do we look at the script? And then how do we just compress it and compress it and compress it and just make it as short as possible? And so we try to delete more than anything else that we possibly can, because at least in my belief, there's this tiny clip from Y Combinator where the founder of Basecamp talks about when he sold the shoes. You mind if I tell the story? Yeah, it's really cool. So he says, hey, when I sold shoes, the shoe reps from Wilson, it was a tennis store, Wilson and Nike or whatever would come and they'd say, hey, these are the new graphite bottom, rubber, extra light aerosol. And they tell him all the specs about the shoe. He's like, do you know how people actually buy shoes? He says, they come in, they put the shoe on, they walk back and forth for a little bit and then do this little bouncy thing. And then they kind of like look at their shoe in the mirror. And then they'd come to me and they'd ask me how much it was. And he's like, so all they really wanna know, is it comfortable? Does it look good? And can I afford it? Right. And that was it. And I found that for the most part in sales, like there's not a ton of things that actually drive the purchase. And most of the time, salespeople talk themselves out of sales rather than just closing. And we study this because we do a lot of analytics on the sales teams that we have across all the portfolios. I have this belief that every time you make a statement, you give something, you give the other person something to disagree with. And so you're like smoke if you just simply ask questions. Even when somebody has an objection, right? And they say, hey, you know, like I'll give you a gym example. It's like, well, are your trainers certified? I'd be like, well, what certification are you looking for? And then they'd be like, uh, because they don't know. They just think they have to ask the question to seem like an informed consumer. Correct. And so we're like, well, what would you, what would the certification accomplish for you? And so just literally asking questions about their objection usually would just sidestep the objection more times than not. Right. And so that's what I try and train the guys is like, if you say nothing, there's nothing anyone can disagree with you on. And we just, because they will only agree with themselves. We can't sell them. They have to agree. Like they have to say, you know what, this makes sense. And so we get them to say that by asking them the question. And that's pretty much the methodology that we've worked with. And, you know, I taught something that I called the closer framework for a very long time, because it's just simple and because people can learn it. And so like, we have a big chain of teeth whiting studios. I have to choose someone who makes $10 an hour to sell a thousand dollar thing and sell like many of them every day. So how do I do that? Like, that's the challenge that I like to take on. It's like, how can I make this process so easy? Because in my opinion, the higher ticket sales, most of the time sales training is very vague because the people who do the training, and I know we're going to talk about this. Don't know what they're doing at all. But I believe that if you can really systematize the process, anyone can sell. And they just follow kind of color by numbers. And so the closer framework is simply clarify why someone's there, label them with a problem that you can solve, overview their past experiences, sell the vacation, which I usually have as three main points. Almost every pitch I have is like, okay, you want this, this, and this. You want fitness, nutrition, accountability. You want the leads to be timely, exclusive, and whatever. So when you mean the vacation, it's like their dream. Yes, exactly. And that little story comes from a lot of times people sell the plane flight, not the vacation. They're like, you got to go through TSA. You got to bring your bags. And this is what we're going to do on the flight. And here's the check that's like, no, no, no. No one cares. They won't talk about Maui. We'll talk about the vacation. Let's talk about that. Sell the vacation. And then he is explaining their concerns and ours reinforce the decision. So that's the closer framework. That way, someone's like, okay, I'll do it. And then it's like, now, this was a great decision. Here are the next steps. And let's walk you through what it's going to be like to accomplish this. And let me tell you exactly what happens next. Because that's where people get cold feet. They back out. You get charged back. You get refunds, things like that. It's like, we need to have a clear handshake between the sale and whatever the next step they have to do. And it's just a smooth process. Right. And so we link those. Because I think the same way where you don't need the most craziest closing line to close somebody. Because I think it starts in the beginning. To me, I think you can fuck everything up within the first five seconds of the beginning. And when people have these, we were just on a show like 10 minutes ago. He's like, man, what's the secret closing line? And I never even thought of sales like that because I said at the end, I've never used some wicked closing line where I turn back to my guys in the office. I'm like, did you fucking do that line? And I'm like the in your face sales guy. You know, very, very outgoing. But I never had one line that closed somebody. And it's always been so easy towards the end because it's everything leading up to the sale where you shouldn't even try to attempt for the close unless you intuitively know that you have the close. I say that all the time. It's like lawyers don't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. Correct. I'm like, I don't ask for the close until I know they're going to say yes. And so I think that's where I do think some pattern recognition with sales, like you're like, I don't think they're there yet. You know what I mean? Like, what else are you concerned about? Like, what are you really worried about right now? And I think that's where like the asking genuine questions. And I think one of the things that I got from Layla is keeping the human first. I know that sounds kind of soft, but like actually having that as the frame because I genuinely believe the person who cares more about the prospect wins. And so like if they care, basically in that moment, if you care more about them than they do over the long term, you will be able to convince them because you actually are putting their needs first. And that also means that sometimes, and I tell my guys this, if you get to the end of the conversation, you really don't think it's the best thing for them to do, push away. Yeah, and that's a successful sale for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because my point, the end point of a sale for me is a decision, not a sale. That's how I see it. And that way my guys can win on every single conversation. I just want to get to a decision one way or another. You know, it's cool that you said that because I think ultimately too, like a salesperson, energy is important. Now, if you're trying, like imagine a salesperson that constantly trying to close and they can't close it and they're fighting and there's so much obscurity at the end of the night when they go to bed, that effs them up for the next day because then they just keep like, you know, they just keep getting shut down by customers and they don't know how to tell a customer, maybe it's not the right fit for you. They save their energy and then they feel like a freaking king on the next call because like, wow, I had the ability to just tell somebody no on a phone call, right? Now you said something that was important. There's two things. Number one, you said you truly believe that you could teach anybody sales because there's a framework. So you think salespeople don't have to be made, right? You can turn somebody into a great client, anybody. I think I genuinely, I do think- And why is that? Because you've seen so many different personalities win. I believe that anything can be trained. So that's like a human faith of mine. I do think it will take much longer for some people than others, to be clear. Like, I think you could take someone with Down syndrome and make a neurosurgeon. It would just take probably more resources than anyone is willing to do. And so basically, if you break down any skill, and so this is actually just because I'm excited to talk about training because it's something I like a lot. But the more skilled the individual, the bigger the instruction. So I just now, I'm a co-owner of a school. And so I said, listen, I'm gonna promote school. That's what I'm gonna do. That's the instruction. It's not like, hey, Alex, can you send emails? And this is how you send an email. Can you make content? And this is how you wanna write a hook. And this is, hey, and when you run ads, do you think, like, no, no, no. Like I can have one direction. So I'm gonna say, hey, can we start a company around this? Thinking of a vague directive, but I have all the sub skills so that I can say, yes, I can do that and I can execute on that. Underneath of that, it's like, okay, now you've got somebody who just understands content markets, somebody who understands sales, but at the very basic level, every skill has sub skills underneath of it. And so it's like, okay, turn on the phone, hit this button, then hit this button, like if you're going from the bottom up. And so it's really just, how much are you willing to train someone to get them to be proficient? And so I just believe that you can break down skills to that level so that anyone can do it. And it just comes down to the resources of the institution of whether or not it's worth investing in that particular person. That's how I see it. And so I do think that anyone, the thing is, is that if you're an individual salesperson or you're getting into sales, you are the institution making the investment. And I sure as hell hope that you believe that you're worth the long-term investment of learning the skill because it works with everything, right? And so if it takes you a year longer to become a top rep, who cares? That's how I see it. Like maybe some guys can do it in a month. It might take you two years. Again, who cares? Yeah, I think people come in with building blocks, meaning like if I were to come in and do a sale, I'm gonna succeed a lot quicker because of my building blocks. And it might not just be building blocks from sales. Sometimes you could see the building blocks from somebody saying, oh, okay, this person was in sports. That means they're gonna be a lot less emotional to when somebody says no, they come in with a bigger building blocks than maybe somebody that wasn't in sports. So you have to look at all those on learning curve. But two things, number one, when you said investing into people, so I'm gonna shift this now more into a leadership and training conversation for a second. Who do you decide? Because there's a lot of people that say, work with the people that are willing to learn, et cetera. If I'm a business owner, if I'm a sales leader, who do I decide to work with? Personally, me, I work with people that show up and they get results and they keep progressing and they constantly get results. I think some people defend people because sometimes the person's trying or they're a good person, whatever the case is. And I'm like, but are they fucking making shit happen? We work with people in the organization that makes stuff happen. Now it might not just be money, but are they progressing it? Are they getting more booked meetings? Is their contact going up, et cetera? So who do you decide as a leader to put your attention on when the sales team is so big? So I'll do two layers here. Got it. So when we, because we deal at the company level. And so the first thing I did, like when we scaled the 40 person sales team was go bring in an exceptional sales director. And so identifying an exceptional sales director, because I think depending on who's listening, what they're looking for. An exceptional sales director is somebody who, in my opinion, is basically a sales operator. And so the best sales directors aren't even necessarily even selling because they have to basically sell the conviction of the whole team. They run the culture and the training of the sales team. And so they have to be somebody who genuinely cares about people. And they have to be willing to repeat themselves over and over and over again. And sometimes play therapists and get someone out of a cold streak and be willing to role play until their eyes bleed. Because that, in my opinion, is what makes an exceptional sales director. They have to understand how to train and motivate. Underneath of that, in terms of what reps are we gonna put more resources towards? For me, it's following the playbook. And so, and I think this is holding business owners and the people who are quote running things to a higher bar, which is, my entire objective, like our sales team is, you follow the script, period. Now, if you don't close and you follow the script, you have won in my eyes. And if you followed up based on the cadence that we have and you said the things you were supposed to do, you could close no one for a year and I would be fine with it. Because if everyone is having that happen, then I need to change the script. Got it, that's on me. And so my first objective with the sales team is adherence. Because then I have a controllable. The vast majority of sales teams have 10 guys selling 10 different ways. And that's why, for most businesses, it is about recruiting good sales people because they just give the directive, sell. And then they have a one-on-one once a week and say, hey, yeah, just build more rapport. Just get your energy up. And that doesn't help people. Whereas saying, your first five seconds of the call, you're introducing yourself poorly. This is the script, try it for me. Uh-huh, again. Raise your voice at the end and try it again. Okay, five more times. Great, next question. And so we want to draw one part of the script until they can breathe it. And then we move on to the next part. And for us, the one-on-ones serve as the training function. And so I don't know a better way to train. In my opinion, training comes down to shadowing in terms of game footage. Because I think the most expensive thing that someone can do as a business owner is waste leads on an inexperienced rep. It's bad for reputation because they botch things. It's super expensive because you lose the opportunity of making money. Everything sucks. And so I want them to train on as many old recordings as humanly possible. And so I want them to watch 60, 100 hours of footage, game tape of other guys doing great jobs selling so that they're thinking about the script in their subconscious, right? Got it. You show them the negatives on the scripts too, or no, just positives? I prefer to do positives. I want to train them on what to do. Love it, okay. Rather than necessarily what not to do. And so we focus there. Then when they do get on the calls, we only have them take half schedules, third schedules. Because we don't want them to quickly bomb the first day and then like, I have to deal with headspace stuff. You're going to take a couple calls and then we're going to review both the calls with the manager and they're going to go over, okay, and this is key. We say, let's watch it, pause. What do you think you could have done better? I'm not going to tell you. Because if I tell you, you're going to be like, this sucks. I'm like, because if I yell at you, you think I suck, right? And we do the same thing with the team. If the team's on the call and we do game tape as a team, which we do like once a week with the wholesale team, everyone, if the team comments, it's on what you did well. And then you get to comment what you could have done better. And then it's the manager's job on your one-on-one to then say, okay, Daniel, you needed to work on your rapport building. Or hey, you're really soft on the close here. Or hey, you're really struggling with the, I need more information part. So let's drill that. Okay, I need more information. When he said, oh, what's your main concern? Well, okay, now we can go into it, right? And so we want to drill in the most minute level what they need to say and then do it over and over and over again so they say the same words every time. And then what happens, like the performance of the team, once you get that culture, if someone comes in and tries to go, they're like, dude, this guy's not following the script. Like get this guy out of here, like a joker. And so that way we can control the variable so that we actually can have a sales system. And by doing that, we can really teach sales. That's how I like doing it. So basically you just try to get everybody better than always trying to switch up the process. Like every single step, get them better. Increase the percentage, get them better. When you look at training for somebody, for having a sales staff, when does somebody, because when we were talking about training and learning, again, back to me, I think somebody learns when their sales go up. So then I say, oh, the person's learning. So, or if it's not their sales, their conversations, their booked meetings are going up, et cetera. I'm like, the person's learning or something's changing in the person. So how do you look at training as a whole? When do you know training is effective? Because there's, I train teams and then I ask the leader and I say, okay, well, how many calls do you do of training a week? And because their sales have been stagnant. Well, we do a training call every single day. And then I step back and I say, well, maybe training's not fucking working what you're training them on. If the sales are staying plateau or they're dying, then training isn't working. Training indicates that sales have gone up or the results have almost changed inside of sales. So what, how does an effective training model look like in your eyes? So if we, I just want to use the word learning just for safety. I define learning as same condition, new behavior. And so that means same condition, the phone rings, new behavior, you use the right script or you say something different, right? Same condition, someone says, I have to think about it. New behavior, you say the right thing, right? Now, if you have same condition, same behavior, you did not learn, right? Or same condition, not ideal behavior, you still didn't learn. But, or you learned the wrong thing. Different, different discussion. Yes. And so from, is training working? We look at the percentages across the whole thing. Now you talked about as an organization, like one of the most underutilized aspects of increasing sales is increasing schedule rate, increasing close rate, increasing show rate. Like you can increase, you can make- Increasing schedule rate, like what percentage will leads you book? Yep. And then what percentage of leads show? Show up. Yes, huge. Like some of the, like you can get, I can make more money in most companies by fixing their show up rate than by increasing their close rate. What do you do to increase schedule show up rate? Like if you looked at an organization and their show up rate was 25%, right? And they're like, our closing sucks. And you say, wait, wait, pause. Where do you start with show up? Where do you start with that? Like what do you do with a, where their book meetings aren't showing up? So we owned a company called Allen, which was a scheduling software. So I got to see 4,000 appointments a day across all different industries. And so we got to test for absolute throughput. And we got to test every row. I had two data scientists who were looking at all these different things. So the number one lever on throughput in an organization is availability. As crazy as that sounds, we tested every single variable. It's number of actual time slots per day, seven days a week, which I find this hilarious because like obviously in the gym world, I would have gym owners being like, man, I can't close any of these leads. And I was like, all right, well, let me see your availability. They're like, oh, well, I take sales appointments from 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And I'm like, and if they can't make that time, I'm like, well, then they're not serious. I'm like, okay, well, how's that working for you? It's not. And so the thing is, is I tell the story about Layla. She was trying to get like her eyebrow something, whatever, whatever she was doing. And she was in L.A. And she called a spot and they were like, we have a time in a week. She's like, doesn't work. She called the next spot. We can see you in four hours. Called the next spot. And they're like, I can see you right now. She went there. It's just about convenience. And so the number of total time slots per day and the increment of the time slot. And so I'm just giving you the, like, I'll give you all the different parts. But this first one is number of total time slots, seven days a week. Then the next one is increments of time slots. So 15 minute time increments, for example, versus 60 minute time increments. It'll be more precise. And for whatever reason, at least in an internet world, we get higher schedule rates from internet bookings from that perspective. For shorter time slots. Yes. Got it. Now, the actual sales appointment can be 45 or 60 minutes. But the ability to start at 315. Got it. Or 305, whatever. The more intricate it can be. Like, if I have an appointment at 305, the likelihood the person is on time is way higher than three o'clock. Like, you know this from sales, right? Like, oh, 305? Like, oh, I gotta be there on time. It just, it signals detail, right? So the availability overall, the number of time slots per hour. The third one is, this is just a tip. We learned this one, is that you, dragging appointments up, boosts show up rates like nobody's business. And so let's say you have an appointment that, you get a lead, you call them up, you qualify the lead and you say, hey, I see here that you've got an appointment on Thursday and today's Monday. Say, hey, I just had my four o'clock cancel. And so if you want, I can pull you up to four o'clock. And now sometimes if you have two more, like, let me introduce you to Sean. He's gonna be like, if you have a set or closer set up. But you can even self set to yourself. Like, I've got a four o'clock and now that I've talked to you, we're gonna, it's gonna be awesome. And they're like, oh, and same day, you know, same day show up rates are way higher than two, three, four days out. And so number of total time slots, increment of time slot, the proximity from when you talk to them to when you book the appointment. And then if at all possible, dragging that forward into the present, we try and do same day next day for all appointments, if at all possible. To cut the time frame down, that's why they show up. And the truth of the matter is just, like, I just tell people, it's like, people, salesperson always thinks like, oh, I'm the shit. I'm like, yeah, you think you're the shit, but then they got their son's basketball game and they just forgot about you after. So the more time, A, you give to people, they just forget shit, number one. It's your job to sell them, but it's their job to get the information and run. You know, the outer world doesn't sell your product. So they get more distracted the moment they go to the other world. It's why you're trying to shorten down the time frame, right? Now, what if somebody, so this is another big thing. Like, I have to answer this always as like the sales guy. Daniel, I booked an appointment with, I had an appointment with Janelle. I followed up with her. I made the video with her, da, da, da, and I still got ghosted. Now what happens when, you know, you have a client, you schedule a meeting with her at 4.15, they ghosted you. If you follow up one more time after they ghosted you, what have you guys found, maybe in terms of data or something that works when people don't show up to the meeting, you just scrap the lead, you hit it back up one more time. This will be fun for everybody. So I learned this from Sam Bakhtiar, who's the first person that I have. So I've mentored him. Oh, he was a wicked guy. Oh yeah, you knew Sam, right? Yeah, Sam was wicked, man. So when I moved to California because I wanted to get into gyms, I worked for minimum wage at Sam's gym for three months. No way. Yeah, and so, because I looked on the internet and I had a white collar job, making good money, and I quit that to work, you know, a minimum wage job at a gym. So my Persian father was horrified. But anyway, that's right. Yeah, and so I'll tell you exactly what I saw him do. He didn't teach me, but I learned it from him, is that, and it'll make sense. So Janelle is a personal training client and we're working out and she doesn't put her weights away. I'm a personal trainer. I got another meeting I gotta get to. What do I say? Do I say, hey Janelle, can you put your weights back? No, you're the trainer. You put the, like, that's a terrible, terrible frame, right? Now, I saw Sam do this and I applied it to every single sale my whole life afterwards. He said, Janelle, I know you ain't about to leave my gym without putting your weights back. And then she's like, oh, fine, Sam. I'll go put the weights back. And now it's fun. It's light. It's not accusatory at all, right? And so. I could see him saying this. The way you said it, I could see him saying it. That's how I learned. I learned it from him, right? His ghetto fabulous, like, work you get into. And he would do that when he wanted to say something that was harsh to somebody. And so I would be like, Janelle, no, I know you didn't just ghost me on this. I'm heartbroken over here. I've got this big bowl of tears. I was like, I don't know what to do with it. I was like, I'm on the edge of a building. And you know what? I'm just messing with you. I'm sure something came up. I was like, at the end of the day, I got this thing for you. I got the medium set aside. No worries. I'm sure something came up. Same time tomorrow at work. Uh-huh. I just go right back into the medium. Right. Just go right back in. And if she goes to me again, you know what? There's 100 other Janelles. And like, basically, what you just taught was setting the frame. I started direct sales when I was 14. I said, I would always set the frame where they would know how to treat me. So if I cold call somebody and I ask them how their day is, and then they ask me back, how's your day? I'm going to be like, shit, my day's fantastic. Every single person I talk to, your neighbor, it's so freaking nice. And they're so kind. And then, boom, they're like, well, now I can't treat Daniel like a piece of shit, right? So it's almost the same thing that you just did in follow up. You got to just make them feel like a human. Because people are people. They don't want to make you feel bad. It's like, we sometimes think prospects are bad people. But maybe they just forgot. Honestly, like, the biggest thing is people are busy. People have very low attention. And like, you have one thing, so does 100 other people. I just, I got rejected so many times. I just don't take it personally. I just really, I genuinely don't take it personally. Right. But I think that the frame that you said at the beginning, because I would also call leads that would opt in for internet leads, right? And so the very beginning, the frame, right? I had all these little, like, these tiny little things you do in the language where you say, hey, John. Pause. And he's like, hello? It's like, this is Alex. And he's thinking, he's like, who's Alex? I don't know. Like, what's his number, right? It's like, from Facebook, you signed up for the six week challenge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, on the internet. Yeah, yeah, I'm just, I'm a real person right across from 7-Eleven on X and Y. Yeah, yeah, how's it going today? Yeah, don't worry. I'm not, I'm not one of the crazies. I'm not, I'm not after you. I'm not in Nicaragua or whatever. And he's like, ha, ha, ha, ha. Like, okay, cool. Oh, so did you, did you hear about us from, I mean, I've messed the script up and done it forever. But so did you see us because of the ad? Or was it because you heard us on the local news best, best bootcamp? Or was it, you know, Oprah did a special on us. Was it one of those things? Now, if you have one award you've ever won in your entire life, even if your mom gave it to you, you'd be like, did you hear about us on internet's best bootcamps? And they're like, even if they haven't, they now are like, oh, this is one of the internet's best bootcamps. Right. And so they're like, oh, these guys are legit. Oh yeah, we won the best customer service award. Anyways, you probably don't care about that. So what, what can I help you with, man? What, what's, what's going on? Why, why'd you sign up for a weight loss thing? And then they're like, you know what? My wife's been bugging me. I'm not fitting into my name, my old suits. And I don't want to buy a new wardrobe. I'm like, all right, well, I guess we got two options. You can keep doing that or I got a four o'clock today. That work for you? And then, you know, we go from there. Right. And so like having that preface that you said, and I mean, I think, I mean, especially on phone tonality matters so much and I've sold a lot through humor and harder to teach. But like, I feel like I was able to ask very hard questions using that kind of Sam frame. Yeah. Where that like, where, you know, lady says, I got to talk to my husband. And I think decision maker is one of the hardest ones to overcome in general. Right. I mean, of the, of the obstacles, I prefer to talk to someone in power. But, and so the way that I would overcome that, I'd be like, what if your husband says no? It's like, well, I guess I wouldn't know. It's like, but what does that mean in five years? I mean, is it going to keep, I mean, how much have you, how much weight have you gained in the last five years? And they're like, what if it keeps going that way? And so I call it childlike curiosity where you're like, huh, that's wild. Fascinating. Tell me more about it. Like I'm never, so I call it like over overcoming the obstacles of dance, not a fight. It's seduction, not rape. Right. And so I want to, I want to dance. And so if they've, if we're in that, in the throes of that, I want them to feel zero aggression. And I want to, I want them to be like, wow, he's really curious. I'm like, well, well, what, what do you think of it? What are the variables that make the decision? And they're like, because they're like, oh, I got to think about it. I'm like, oh, what's your main concern? Let's do it together. Right. And so then, then, then, because I want that. And this is the thing. A lot of salespeople is they back away from the hard question they know they need to ask. And I don't want them to be deciding when they leave. I want them to make the decision in front of me. It's like, you're probably wondering if we're just full of shit and you know what? I'd be wondering that too. So how can I prove it to you? Right. Right. And then they have to come up with the criteria for me. Love that. And so I want them to tell me how to sell them. Yeah. Yeah. Like what's great. What would make you feel a hundred percent? And then they name it. Because the thing is, is this is the only time they've ever had this conversation. So the on the spot, they're going to think like two things. I'm like, oh, I can take care of that right here. Fair enough. That makes that make you feel better. Sure. All right. Let's talk it out. And then it's just, I mean, and obviously this takes reps. And because some people in the early days of sales, your adrenaline kicks in. You're like, I need to sell. I know as your teeth come out. And I love this term commission breath. It's like you start having commission breath. Right. And then everyone goes on defensive because you sound like you're selling. And so I've always, I even like my team knows this. Like I cock my head and I do childlike curiosity. So I even have a mental cue. It's like, huh. And that's whenever I want to get like offensive. I always go, huh. And that it deflates it. Like it really just, I'm like that. And then it gives me a second. I'm like, huh. Well, what if. Well, let's play it out. So if you didn't have the money to do this and you spent the money, what would happen? And they're like, why wouldn't be able to afford groceries? And I was like, well, I guess the weight loss problem will solve itself then. No. Right. And then you get the, and they're like, oh, it's like, no, let's play it out. Well, I mean, you're not, have you ever bought something? You've ever been like, man, that was a lot, but you're still here, right? You're not homeless. Okay. So how important is this to you? Right. And so we can, and like, you can sidestep these things. I think with a lot of tone and being able to your body language, the way you just did it, you can sit in the pocket. I want to be able to sit in that spot where people are uncomfortable, but make them feel comfortable so that they can actually be honest with me. And then to your point of like, what's the one zinger. Honestly, I haven't had it. Like, right. I want it. Sure. Let's get back. And I like to do the big zoom out. And so like, if I feel like I'm on this weird mouse, like, you know, you're like in Pluto and you're like, what's going on here? Right. You're like, Hey, let's zoom out. You're trying to lose weight. We sell weight loss. Let's get in the way here. Right. And then they're like, I just don't know if it's actually going to work. And I'm like, that makes sense. That makes you like every other person who signed up and then was successful. Because if you know what, if you didn't think that, I'd be worried about you. Because if you thought 100 percent, then I think you'd have false expectations. Be a lot of work. Right. And then all of a sudden, it's like you're confirming their suspicions rather than trying to battle them. And so I think a lot of people try and like invalidate what someone's feeling about the decision rather than actually leaning in. Because it's kind of like Eminem when he in the rap battles, where he owns all of his negatives. It's like, I want to, I want to say, yeah, yeah, you're right. This is super expensive. It's going to be really hard. You should still do it. Yeah, right. Because then it's like all of those things that they want to give his obstacles. I agree with and then still say, that's a great reason to buy. I threw myself under the bus first. Now you can't show me. Right. Sure. Person on the other end almost expects, especially when they know it's a salesperson. They expect a certain pattern from a salesperson, meaning you're the salesperson, Alex, and I'm Daniel, the prospect. And I say, yeah, you know, I just don't have the money right now. My pattern is now once I tell you this, I'm thinking for you to be competitive, for you to argue with me and be like, well, that's the exact reason why I should buy it. Do it right now. And like, right. To pressure me. I'm expecting that pattern response. I tell people, I'm like, whenever somebody gives you an objection, do the opposite of what they think you're about to respond to. Like they expect you to combat with them. You know, be argumentative. Try to close the deal right away. Smile. Like just give them a smile. Laugh. Be like, yeah, no problem. Even just like wave it off. You would do it. That's not even a worry. Don't even worry about it. Drop their shoulders. Because now they're like, wait, wait, wait. Salesperson malfunctioned in my head. This person was supposed to argue with me. And now they're not arguing with me. They're almost like agreeing with me. They're acknowledging it right now. And they're on my side. This is weird. You can't disagree with someone who asks you a question. It's like the number one thing when you're in that high pressure situation is I want to make no statements. I don't want to do any commands that I don't know in any statements because there's nothing they can disagree with me on. So if someone says, you know, I don't have the money. And sure, we could say, well, it's about resourcefulness, not resources. We can go through all these things. But when I really get down to it, I'm like, oh, man, that's tough. So what right now are other priorities for you? Because I want to make it work for you. But if it doesn't work, it's fine. But because at the end of the day, you're going to have X amount of dollars, right? OK. And you're going to vote with your dollars about the things that you care about. That makes sense, right? OK, cool. So the question is, what are you voting for that matters more to you? And if it's like, I've got to pay rent. And my wife, we've got a baby on the way. I get it, dude. I get it. Maybe this isn't a priority right now. Maybe it will be in the future. But the question is, how long do you want to not be able to get the things that you want in your life when you really want them? How long do you want that to be a problem in your life? That's if I was selling a sales training. Sure, sure, sure. And so then it's like, but now I'm back to question asking, right? And so rather than being like, to your point, well, that's the perfect. And I think the tone matters so much. This is why role playing is so important. Because if someone has said this to me 100 times and I know exactly what I'm going to say to respond, I don't have adrenaline because I start saying the words before I'm even thinking. Because I can be present, not trying to remember what I'm going to say. I can be looking at the person. Right. And that's the whole, like Layla's whole frame of like human first. Like if I actually really cared about this person, how would I talk to them? Like if it were my mother and she really did want to lose weight and she really didn't. And she said, I don't have the money. I'd be like, well, what else are you spending money on? Like, I mean, to be clear, is this important to you? Because if it's not like, I'll stop right now. I don't want you to do something you don't want to do. I like to set that frame overall. And I'm like, you can even like, you do it subconsciously. I'm leaning back. I'm doing this. Right. It's like, hey, I'm not. I'm exiting. Yeah. And so I mean, I told it, we have a lot of little isms, but like we always want to sell from our back foot. I never want to be leaned in. I was going to be like, if you want it, I'm here. And so it's like, what else are you considering? Like, where else are you allocating? I get it. Because like, and if you need to, that's where there's key stories. So like, if there's ever something that I like to have in my holster, it's a story of someone just like them that just walked out the door. Right. Right. It's like, you remind me of Susan. She actually came in a couple months ago. We had almost an identical conversation. She could be your sister. And we got to this point in the conversation where she actually was struggling with this. And so I was like, how important is this to you? And she was like, it's really important. And I was like, well, you're a single mom and you got four kids. I was like, I get it. And I was like, well, what can we do? And she was like, I think I'm going to start driving Uber. I was like, are you sure? I was like, it's going to be you alone at night. And she's like, this is important to me. Like, I'll make it work. And you know, the kids, like, well, I'll just, I won't go out to dinner one night a week. I'll make it work. And I was like, OK, you sure? And she was like, yeah. And you know what? Susan's down 60 pounds in the last six months that she made that decision. And the thing is, it's like, what do you want to be? And then she's like, I'm at 200. I'm like, what do you want to be at? She's like, my high school. I'm like, if that happened, would it be worth it? And then she's like, yeah. And I'm like, well, the question is, what do we need to do to make it happen? You know, like, and then all of a sudden, they're back in. Right, we're back in. And so I just, I hardcore believe that you overcome objections simply by asking the question of what they were intending. I think a really good belief for salespeople is that if you don't close a sale, it means you didn't understand the prospect enough. Because if you literally knew every single thing about a prospect, you were God and you knew every single thing that had ever happened to that person, you could close them. And so simply having the frame of curiosity, which is probably the number one thing I teach our guys, is like, you have to genuinely be curious. And so it's like, like, that's why the first question is, what brought you in to clarify why they're here? Yeah. Right. And like, what have you struggled with? Why did that suck? Okay, that's good for me to know. What else have you done? Okay, what are the things that, you know, we just walk our way through this. Yeah. And that's what I try to get us out of any combat. There's a movie with Mel Gibson. It's called What a Woman Wants, right? Yeah, right. And I always tell salespeople, I said, imagine you were like Mel Gibson. He gets shocked and he's in the minds of every single lady. Every single lady's like, oh, he smells like this. Oh, I don't like the way he's kissing me like this. That's sales. You want to understand what your prospect is going through because then sales become so freaking easy, right? But when you try to like, that's why I said, it's like you want to understand people and then servicing them is a no brainer. Let's get back into this. So you, so we were talking about teaching. I know because I can talk to you about sales all day. I can go four hours here. But you were talking about teaching and learning, right? Sales. So you said somebody comes in with a condition. They know, they know something. The behavior changes. And then what? Then are the results supposed to go up if the behavior changes? Is that what you mean? If we have the right activities that we're telling them to do. Correct. Because we have that right, then outputs will occur. Like we will increase output, period. And our whole goal is adherence. Is that when this happens, you do this. When this happens, you do this. Which means you have to think out way more. And this is what I think most sales leaders, most business owners don't do. Is they just have three guys and they're like, yeah, Dan closes at 35 percent. Johnny's at 20. And Sam's at 10. And he's really struggling. And they all follow different scripts. And the thing is that the owner doesn't know anything about it. Right. They're not close enough to it. And all three of their calls, all of them, even amongst themselves sound different. Right. And so if you have no process, you can't improve anything. Like literally, it's just shouting into the wind. There's no point. Because if you say, hey, guys, we're going to do this, they're already not following it. Right, right, right, right. And so our whole objective, if we're going to take over a sales team, is everyone follows the script. And if it blows, it's on me. You guys can close nothing and I will guarantee your pay. Right. You can close nothing as long as you follow. Yes. And then together, we will do this. And then the whole team rises. Love it. That's how I like to do it. Because then also, I mean, I like team incentives rather than individuals. I want people to be, I want it to be us versus them, not me versus John. Got it. I want them to help each other out. Got it. Because if you're feeling if you're competing against someone on the leaderboard in order to get the big jackpot at the end of the month, then I want you to fail. Like, it's my incentive. Like, I have zero incentive for you to get better. So say that when you said you like team incentives, I want you to talk about it. I know I have a lot of sales leaders listening. What's a way to influence output in a sales team the right way where people keep working and there's competition, whatever the case is? And I think there's a lot of ways to do this. Right. To be really clear. So I'm just saying what we're doing is we like to have a pot that if everybody hits over this, then everybody gets it. Love it. Right. But now everybody's like, shoot, Johnny's low. Johnny, let's drill. Let's drill. Let's drill. And then we can all get paid. Right. And then that way, again, it's us versus them. I want our enemy to not be in the ranks. I want them to be outside. Let's put those guys out of business. Those guys are ripping off customers. They're doing a terrible job. Let's outsell them because we want to make sure that every prospect who's in their pipeline comes to our business because they're going to get robbed over there. Got it. Like, that's what I want. I want the team to be together. Yeah. I don't want us to be I want us to be in the trenches side by side, not against each other. Yeah. And that was I mean, took me a long time because if you look at some of my older stuff, I was like, cutthroat. You know what I mean? I was like, everybody has to kill each other. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I think I've shifted that over time because now we have bigger and bigger teams. We make more money. And I think it's it creates a much better culture. You think competition is healthy within a sales team? Like, do you think to what extent? Alex, bro, are you competitive? Forget the money. Like, do you love winning? Sure. You love winning, right? Do you have my phone? Yeah. You don't like losing to people. It's not even the money aspect. So just win. You guys can see this, right? Just win. Yeah, I love this. I love this because like everything else I can follow that forces you to be the best. That's it. Just win. I think every salesperson should just want to be the best. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I think that comes in the recruiting. It's like, I want to bring killers in and I want to have a culture of killers. How do you know who's a killer? Is there identifiers like a recruiting philosophy of who's the killer? Like, who's that? Ah, that guy has it in him. Is there a story that they tell you? I have an 18-year-old who's on the team right now, on my team. 18. And he emailed every single person in my company and reached out to them and had a personalized cover letter for every single person about why he would be an excellent add-on to our sales team. And the day he turned 18, he officially applied. And then I was like, how's this kid not going to be here? He beats me into the office. Right. He's here at six. He leaves at six and he does this seven days a week. And I'm like, dude, you should take the day off. And he's like, he's here. He's here to win. And so when you have that culture, all the other guys are like, shit, I've got to step my game up. And the thing is, the hardest part, this is my belief on this, is that the first three to five hires that you have for sales are so important because they solidify the culture. And I define culture as the series of rules, spoken or unspoken, in an organization. So this is how we behave. If this, then that. These are the rules that we have. If it's Saturday, we still show up. That's a rule. If a prospect, if we get a lead, we always do the steps of lead nurture. What do you mean you didn't? You didn't understand? What do you mean you didn't? You just chose not to? I don't think he's going to be here, man. Just immediately. Right. And then they start black sheeping. They police themselves because they're like, it's an honor to be on this team. Correct. And I want that culture, honestly, on all the teams of the company that we have. But sales, because we're talking about sales, sales team six, man, you are the best of the best to be here. And I think that's part of where brand stuff starts to come into play, where like, this will be like, acquisition.com will be on your resume and you can get a job wherever you want after that. Right. Right. And so they know, especially if they come on Alex's sales team, that people will be like, what are all the secrets? But the secrets are all the fundamentals. And I'm such a big advocate of this. It's like, there is no such thing as, quote, advanced sales. It's advanced sales. People literally never don't do the basics. Right. It's the consistency of doing the basics. And the way, so we have isms, but like simple scales, fancy fails. That's one of our little internal isms. And so like, in order to have a sales system, the reason we delete so much is because we can only pay attention to a handful of things, like just from the attention of the team, the attention of the manager. And so we just want to make sure that the things that we are focusing on, that everyone does always, all the time, every day, are the things that matter. And that's it. And so it's like, did you follow the script? Did you follow up? Did you work the lead? Did you make the offer if they were qualified? That's it. Right. And then we can see the metrics across the whole team. And if something's off, we know what the, like, we can usually quickly identify what the problem is. But I love a team where everyone's performing very, very high. And people get a ramp up, but like, you get a couple of weeks. But like, after that, if you're not, because we know this system works. And so if you're, if it isn't working for you, you are not working. You don't try to say, oh, this is just our top 10%. Another 90% should suck. No, no, you're saying it should be the opposite. But the 90, 80% should be the standard of people doing it right. And then 20% is like, you have some time to fucking catch up, but this is the standard of winning right here. Right. If you know how to properly train. And I think, I just think the vast majority of people don't know how to train. I just think, I think it's 95% of organizations don't know how to train anything. And so they basically just roll a dice when they hire somebody and they have no idea whether to judge if somebody is a good salesperson or not. And they throw them in. And if they close, they say, awesome, this guy's a good salesperson, which means he had all the building blocks already, which means it had nothing to do with you. Right. And your sales system is you gave them a PDF and you said, please learn the script. And then they kind of disregard it because they have an experience that might have been better. They might be better at sales than you are. But unless, like the worst thing that can happen for us, for example, not the worst thing, but like if someone comes in, he's like, I'm an absolute hardcore, whatever, closer, maybe he does have a really high closing rate. But if you come into our system, I prefer to be like the Patriots. Like we have a system. This is what we run here. This is how we do things. And if you come in, you go off script, you're not going to work here. That's all it is. Now, there's 100 other companies that will take you and you can go mess up their sales teams, but you're not going to mess up mine. Right. If that guy's a team player and he says, I will do your script. I have a handful of suggestions that I want to do. I'd be like, replicate before you iterate. That's one of my rules. I love it. If you can meet everyone else's standards, then you can tell me your suggestion. Yeah. And so if they do that, then they say, I think if we change this question, I think it would frame things. That'd be like, awesome. You change it. I'm going to keep the rest of the team the same. And if your close rate's higher, I'll put it's team wide. And that's how we iterate. So we'll still keep the whole, because you have to test it. I mean, I always like to test things and scale scripts and whatever. And so it's like, we're still going to keep the block of the team the same because we know the system works. And we'll change this one thing for you. And then we'll see if it works better. And if it doesn't, and most times there's just no change. In which case, get back on the script. Got it. Would you advise, I talk to sometimes small business owners and they just launched a program. Hey, Dan, I just launched a program on school. I need a salesperson now. So I need a salesperson. I need somebody on the calendars. And sometimes I advise, maybe you want to hire in threes. And the reason why I like doing that is because I don't like blaming positively or negatively. If Emil comes to my organization and he's up, just like you said, I can't really blame Emil because I'm like, is it the script? What's wrong? Is he lazy? X, Y, Z. But if I hire Emil, Bri and Sam and everybody's fucking up, I might have a problem. Sure. Right. Or, you know, I could say, well, you know, this guy's winning and both of you guys aren't winning. And he came in with no experience. I like to always just hire in a batch instead of just hiring one. Let's transfer into school for a second. So we just, we're publicly launching. It's our sales role play because I believe in sale. My brand is world-class closers. So I either say you're a world-class closer, you're a world-class winger. When somebody tells you something, your objection response changes every single time and you're just freaking winging it. Right. I think role play is so important. Now, when you see LeBron James take a game seven winning shot, he's done it a million times in the gym. He makes it seem so freaking easy. Just like you said, you don't want to practice, you know, on your leads. You don't want to burn your lead. So we just opened up something called our world-class closer sales role play. So I have role play with these individuals every single week over Zoom, me personally doing it for like 30 minutes, every single part of the script. Right. So, and it's for every single industry. And now we're hosting it. We decided to host it on school. And when we soft launched it to our community, what I realized is number one, the engagement's phenomenal. Through school, the engagement's amazing already. And there's only a couple hundred people right now inside of the platform. Why do you feel like school has the success it does right now? What's a key indicator why people love school right now? I like to use the analogy of a hundred golden babies, no silver bullets. And so it's a lot of little details and it's hundreds and hundreds of little details of trying to make it just that much better. And so even I was talking to Sam, who is the co-founder, and he was talking to me about like the live light for like, if someone's got a little green icon next to them, he's like, well, it sounds simple, right? You say, okay, well, if they're online, make it green. He's like, but what if someone's online on their phone and then they turn it off and then they're on their desktop? What if they're using multiple browsers? What if they have a tab? They have the tab up, but they're not on that tab. How long do I give them before I go from green to not green, right? And then he's like, because the thing is, if I turn it off too fast, then people are going to feel like they're having a conversation, then it's over, but the person's still paying attention. They're switching back and forth. But if I have it too long, then they're going to be messaging me like, hey, where are you? Right. And so that's just like one iota of an example of all the details that exist within school to make it better. But the whole development team came from a gaming background. And so they came from Riot Games. And so they know how to gamify things in a way that makes it fun. And so one of the big missions of school is to make business online fun and easy. And so the whole concept of building a community for fun and profit, right, is that we want to take all the friction out. And so the reason that most people can't get started online, for example, is that like tech is that no one can do technology. It's like, OK, well, what if we just took all of that barrier away and just made it easy? And then within the communities, if we know that people in our communities can engage way more, then they're going to stay longer, refer more friends. And so the people who own the communities just make more money because the platform itself will make you the money. Now, that's on the microcosm level. On the macro level, there are many communities on school. And so it allows people to search for whatever they want to learn. And that's what I'm super passionate about, which is to make real business education accessible for everyone. School is to make education accessible for everyone. So whether you want to teach watercolor or you want to put your downline on there or your sales org or whatever it is in that place and you want to teach them in a systematized way, it's one of the best ways to do it. Because if you put it in a, let's say, a white labeled whatever, it's going to be dead. And that's the problem. There's no activity. There's no life. And so inside school, there's so much activity because it's been so gamified for engagement that that's why you're seeing the engagement that you are. And I can't take credit for that. That's the dev team. That's Sam. That's just amazing at product. I just saw the stats because I came in as a business guy. And I was like, what are the growth? What are the referral rates? And the thing was growing with zero marketing, I'll just say a lot, every single month and for years. And so as soon as I saw that, I was like, this is a fucking product. And so that's why I wrote a massive check and then became a co-owner. There's creators on here watching right now. So aside from the salespeople, what do you feel creates a very solid community? Like if you could boil it down to two to three things, what's a strong community in your eyes? So communities approximate access. So they're fractionalized access. Whoever owns the community, people are getting a very small slice of them for usually a much lower price than they would normally charge for like one on one. Got it. In person. That's the absolute extreme. You training somebody one on one on how to sell versus one to many in a remote setting be the absolute opposite. And so it's a fractionalized version of that. So how do we approximate access? So one is having a very simple value prop for the community, which it's about value per second rather than seconds of value. And so a lot of people want to build communities and say like, I'm going to stuff so much stuff in there. But then the number one reason people cancel communities is overwhelmed. And so that was a big finding for us. And so we're like, oh, OK. So it's actually about paring things down because fundamentally people usually buy for one or two reasons. And as long as the value proposition that we have for the community just meets that one thing, then they're like, oh, I got it. And so more people want to be like, oh, I'm consuming this. Whereas let's say you offer 100 things and they use one. Even if I had the same price for 100 things and I only gave one thing and somebody uses one of one versus one of 100, they will feel like they're getting way less value if they use one out of 100 things. Right. Because they feel like they're not using it. And so we found that it's actually about making fewer things better inside the community that people actually will consume because everybody already has all the information they need at their fingertips. Everybody has Google. So there's no lack of information. It's about curating the information and focusing on how do I compress it and make it the most digestible as humanly possible for those people from an information perspective. From the access side, so I said there's two things from the information side. From the access side, it's what are the ways that have the closest approximation to you. And so I think like weekly call and maybe like one big thing. Like that's what we're doing at school because we've looked at the data. It's like I do one call a week inside of the community for school. And one day a month, I do eight hours of full training with the top community owners who won that month. That's what's inside. That's it. And that way they can stay up to date with it. They're like, no, I didn't miss anything. I watched the video. And once a month, I do a Saturday and I binge it. But because what we've had for a minute was we had three calls a week. Basically, we took the top winners. We interviewed all of them. We asked them all these questions. We put all of those in. And we're like, we're just over delivering with value. But people were like, I'm getting behind. I can't keep up with all this stuff. And so it's like, OK, what are the fewest things they absolutely need to be successful and give nothing else? Not because we can't, but because they can't handle it. Right. And that was a big finding for us. And so it's about having fewer better things that even one of the things on its own is like, that alone is worth it. Right. And so just the calls with Alex is worth it. Just the calls a day alone is worth it. The one eight-hour thing a month, my god, people pay $50,000, $100,000 a year for masterminds. And this guy's making more than those guys. And he's just giving it away. Right. That alone would be worth it. And so we want the few bullets of value in and of themselves to be worth far in excess of the price that even if they only use that one thing, it'd be worth it. But we don't want to have a list that's this long. Right. We want to have a couple of core things that are the main reasons someone buy. Are the shoes comfortable? Do they look good? And are they affordable? Smart. Yeah. And that's the idea. So it's smaller things, higher usage. Make sure people are not getting intimidated by our deals. How recently did you just partner up with school? So January 9th is when we announced it, I think. You partnered up with them, right? That's when we announced it. What's next for you inside of the business? Where are you looking to take school? We want to go all the way. We want to have a place where people can learn whatever they want to learn and teach whatever they want to teach and do it inside of a community. And part of the reason that school even began was because Sam had a big coaching business called Consulting.com. And he saw that people would buy the training. They would log in. They'd watch two or three videos. And then they'd spend the rest of their time in the Facebook group. But the Facebook group sucked. It's like they would get sucked off. They'd have ads from competitors. The posts didn't have any reach. So you have to have a support team to manage the fact that no one could get their questions answered because no one would see the questions. And there's no gamification and all these other things. And so he was like, is there a way that I can put the courses, the schedule for the classes, the actual community itself? Can I put leaderboards in place? Can I gamify it so that when someone adds more value to the community, they get rankings? And what that does is it encourages people to actually provide value. So this is one of the most ingenious things is that because you get points for engagement, for your long-term status, you are incentivized to make good quality posts. Correct. And so that makes the – it lifts the overall quality of the community. And so one of the big benefits of being a community owner is that it's kind of like hosting a big party. It's not really about who hosts the party. It's about how good the people at the party are. And so if you curate the right atmosphere, like you don't need to be the coolest guy. You just have the right people in the room. And so one of the other cool things, probably my favorite feature of school, is like I probably write like one long-form post in there probably two, three times a month. Like I'm like, you know what? I'm seeing this common question. Like let's crush it. And so I'll write a really thought-out post. And that can actually go into the curriculum. And so you can write the post, see that it works really well, and then you can just tag it and associate it with like a course or curriculum. Because a lot of people – and we found this out too – a lot of people just prefer to read as much as there's lots of video stuff. Sometimes video seems long. You're like, I'd rather just read the post. Yeah. And people are more well-thought-out. Like when people make videos, they just ramble and blah, blah, blah. But like when you write, you tend to be a little bit more concise with your language. And so – but you can also use that from your community. So if John makes an amazing post on how to follow up with a ghosted lead, you can just tag that into follow-up. And then underneath of the video, you've got John's post too. Right. And so these things don't disappear anymore. The best things you can turn into artifacts that crystallize and stay there forever. So you can immortalize things. And I think that the best content that I've had, like in gym launch when we had the community of gym owners, like some of the best content that was there wasn't from me. It was from the gyms. And I just had to lose it. And then I'd have to like take it, and then I'd have to like make a video on it and put it. And then it would like lose its value. But if you could see that post with all the engagement and the questions being answered underneath, it makes for a much more engaging education overall. Right. And so that's one of the – I mean, we do that right now in the school community, like in the school games. If someone figures out like, hey, I'm running ads in the ads section, like Evelyn made a great post on how she's running and what she's doing, we just put it right over. I didn't have to do it. Sam didn't have to do it. And so you kind of crowdsource the value itself. And so those things alone, it's like you provide your role playing. You do one big training per month that's really valuable. Right. And you curate a community that already has all the incentives built in place to provide the most valuable posts. And then you put those things in to the area where they can be immortalized. And people get incentives to make amazing stuff because they get points and they raise in status. Yeah, we've seen it right away. Like people – like it's encouraging great behavior. Right. Just like you said, like everybody's going to show up to the Gatsby party and everybody's going to look great. Right. Gatsby doesn't even have to show up. Everybody just looks good at the Gatsby party. It's the same thing that's happening inside of our community. People, you're encouraging valuable behavior to as well. There's like in some communities, you will see people, you know, talk shit and there's hate, et cetera. We've seen none of it. We've seen none of it. Like, I don't know why it might come. Sure, this is part of the Internet, et cetera. But everybody just like came together as family. And it was like Sally was helping John within like a matter of an hour. And these two people I know were completely disconnected. Guy's like, man, how would you do this? And then everybody's answering on the post, oh, this is what I would do with this prospect, et cetera. And it made my life easier as a creator. And people have to understand it's like because you can only do so much. I'm like, oh, fuck. 18 people just answered. I just liked it. I said, good answer. Yeah. That's it. Oh, right. I like excellent breakdown. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the crazy thing about this is that putting all the incentives in place is what actually takes like a long time to build that kind of built-in incentive that people behave the way you want to. But even the look and the feel of school is purposely like fun. You know, it's light. And so it'd be weird if there was like this long troll post because it's like it almost feels like it sticks out, right? But to your point, the whole point for creators is we want to make it the most leverage for a creator to be able to host a community. And if you have thousands and thousands of members, you can't answer everyone's question. And one of the problems with Facebook, for example, is that if you make a post or one of your customers makes a post, no one sees it because it reaches like 5% of people. And if it's not a good post, it just disappears into the ether. And so one of our super users has tens and tens of thousands of members in her community who are saying, I pay $400,000 a year in support just because no one gets questions answered on Facebook because it's dead because no one actually sees the posts. And she's like, in school, I could cut $400,000 a year out of my payroll because every post gets 100% reach. And when I post, everyone sees it, like 100% see it. And you can notify everyone also via email that you made a post. And we limit it so that you can only do that once every three days as a creator. So you don't spam your audience. And that way, when they do see an email, they're like, oh, it must be worth it. And so we've been able to test these cadences that like once every three days, the sweet spot, we're like, you make something that's really valuable. Like, hey, I did this breakdown post. You should check it out. And you notify it because you're an admin. You can do that. And then everyone sees it. For anybody to sign up, it's school, like in my community. For anybody to sign up, it's school.com. Yeah, Flash Games. Flash Games. Yeah, because in the games, we have a couple of fun things. I think it's a 14-day trial. I take calls once a week. We have an eight-hour dump that I do once a month of like huge in-depth training on all the best community owners and what they're doing to reduce churn, how they're pricing, how they're acquiring customers, what are they doing to make content, run ads, do outreach. Do phone sales. Some of them doing direct to the about page. How they're optimizing their about page to increase conversions. All that kind of stuff, like the in-depth tactics. And then there's just the community that's awesome. And I have a step-by-step training, too. If like you're starting from zero to one and starting. Is that paid or free? It's free for the first 14 days. So I can get into games for free for the first 14 days and cancel if I want to cancel. Yeah. Got it. Yeah, I like to make it back of foot. So I would get access. If I were to access games right now, I would get access to all the content in the past too as well. Yeah. I can use up everything. Got it. So the one stick for the big eight hour unlocks, they unlock when you get three members into your group. Ah, love it. Into your group, you said? Yeah, into your community. Because to join the school games, you have to be a school community owner. That's how it works. So you start a community and in the school games, they teach you how to run community. That's the school games. Right, right, right, right, right. If you were like, I want to learn whatever, then you search in discovery and just find whatever groups you want. So if you're going into Daniel's group for sales, then you type Daniel and you'd have sales and then you'd be up there and then they'd join. So people are going to the basketball community. They're going to the watercolor community. They're going to the sales community. They're going to all these different communities. And the nice thing is that when, I mean, this is where the compounding effect happens is that if Susie has a watercoloring and John has basketball and you have sales, when Susie brings watercolor person in, they also see your stuff. And so the traffic and the way that the algorithm works is that the best communities rise in the rankings. And so we will feed the best communities ourselves with the mountain of traffic that we have. Right. And there's free community. So it's free on the opt-in and it's free on the communities in the back end. That's what we get. Anyways, dude, thank you so much. Thank you.