Kay Interview

So speaking of the glass house, I know that you had mentioned, I don't remember what the fucking question was. Uh, something about reflections and Nova. No, I can figure it out. Okay. So speaking of glass, the glass house, it felt like a modern take on like the old Victorian haunted house. But I've got to assume, yeah I can do this. Hang on. Yep. I don't like reading all this, like my life depends on it. Oh, I was just going to give it a beat. Oh, I was trying to beat you to it. I know, I was like, I was just kidding. I'll grab it in the next shot. So speaking of glass houses, it felt like this like really modern take on like the old Victorian haunted mansion. That's so cool, but, you know, looking at it, like especially from like a filmmaking point of view, I've got to assume that there were challenges like reflections or like, you know, light angle incidences or things like that. Did you have any issues technically filming it? Yeah, hold it. To, again, your point, we were fearful of that from day one. That was the biggest concern is that how was this going to react to us? And the irony of irony, we only saw ourselves in one shot. After all that time, and you're talking about a hallway full of equipment, people, booms, you know, you name it. And in only one shot did we catch our reflection. And I don't know how that happened. It's just the angle of the camera, the lens, whenever it was working in our favor, it was just weird. Now, Joel Silver, he's the one who came up with the concept. It was completely his original idea because he, to his point and your point, he didn't want it to be an old haunted house. He wanted it to be something upscale, something nobody had ever seen before. And Joel has this huge appreciation for architecture. He's a huge architecture and designer fan. So he was really hot to do something completely different. And I think 13 Ghosts kind of delivered in that fashion. But it wasn't easy. It was easy to be sort of intimidated by it, certainly. So we just kind of made the best of it and turned it into kind of this little jewel box. Did you have to use safety glass throughout the entire set? Oh yeah, it was all safety glass. Did you have to use safety glass through the entire set? Now to your point, the safety glass, as you know, safety glass weighs a ton. So all of that safety glass, it was actually built on a steel superstructure. So we kind of built the entire set with literally a skyscraper architecture just to hold up all that safety glass. We couldn't do it with just normal set construction. We actually had to do heavy steel lifting, heavy steel welding. It was a serious, serious construction. And then we only had one set, so obviously we blew it up. And then we came back after the reset, and it became the downstairs of the place. And that was the second half of the production. Wow, that's so cool. Yeah, it was really... You know, you wonder, watching it, as a filmmaker and seeing it, how did they do that? Yeah, it was not easy. You should say that too. Unless you want me to just cut that and just go straight to him saying it was not easy. Yeah, exactly. Do you mind grabbing the charger for the computer? It's in the bedroom next to the bed, like on the floor. Is it in here? No, it's in the office. Watch, he's in there. He's just like sprawled out naked. I'm sorry. Oh my gosh. Of the bedroom? He said he was in the office. Yeah, he's in the office. I need something else to drink. I don't think I should have another Diet Coke. I feel like if we do 20 minutes... We're just also going to have to jump around a little bit and re-wake ourselves. If we just each say something short, opinions each, and then 20 minutes, then we should be good. I have a lot to talk about with this movie, though. Suck it, y'all. I did research. This is my jam. What were we doing? That's cheap. I think we spent all the money on the house. I think that's fun. So, 13 Ghosts is a favorite among physical media collectors due to all the special features, especially the origin stories behind each ghost. Was this something that was actually in your production bible that you used during filming, or was this a marketing thing that someone came up with after? Blue. Okay. I have to take it from you. Myself and so many people who... Okay, wait, let's do it one more time. To collect digital media. Physical media collectors. Physical media collectors. So, besides myself and so many other physical media collectors... Let me try it one more time, sorry. Because it's so for myself. Just zoom in on that face. Okay. So, for myself and so many other physical media collectors, the best part of the DVD is the backstory of all the 13 Ghosts and all the extra content. Was that backstory something that was part of your filming bible? Script bible, do I say? Production bible. Production bible, that's fine. Was that... Try it one more time. Okay. That was messy. I know. Fuck. I'm an insulter. So, for myself and so many other physical media collectors, one of the best parts of the DVD is all the behind the scenes, the extras, and especially the backstory of all 13 Ghosts. Well, 12. But, was that part of the production bible? Or, was that like marketing? Where did that come from? Yeah, kind of during the glory days of the Blu-ray. So, they had to come up with something. Luckily for us in our situation, we had done so much design work on the Ghosts. There was tons of artwork to form it with and to fill these things with. So, doing it and taking all the other stuff, that was kind of a no-brainer. And, the big question afterwards, and it has been for years, is like, how come you didn't do a series just on each Ghost? Right? I've gotten word that Sony is going to be doing just that. They're going to be doing the 13 Ghosts series. It's examining each Ghost as an episode. Wow. Yeah. Wow. It's saying, Miss, Miss, you need to calm down. It's a little late. He's got a heart attack. There was a weird reaction. There was a, what? Are you going to come back for that at all? Okay. Should we ask him that? Yeah. Should we put that in there? Okay. I mean, he doesn't really, he says no. Oh. Should we just skip that? Yeah. Skip it. I know, but I'm just, I'm supposed to do the episode. It isn't so bad. We can cut to that. Yeah. That's perfect. So you can cast anybody you want to. And Matthew still looks like Matthew. Wow. So you can make him still a ghost. And he can be like, there can be sidekicks walking around the desk. So there's a ghost everywhere, yeah? It seems like it's right itself. A couple guys in Sony are doing that from what I hear. Oh, that's cool. It's the first I've heard of that. Yeah. I actually saw it on one of, just like a news feed. And I was like, what? Yeah. Yeah. Seems really kind of fun. I mean, I hope it happens. Yeah, me too. Me too. That's so serious. Speaking of the ghost, could you tell us about creating their looks and anything you did directing those performances? So I'll just say, like, that is awesome. I'm so excited to hear that. And then you take that from me. Oh, do you want me to take, can I like pull it from you? Yeah. Or do you want to hand it to me? Okay. You can, like, grab my hand and do this then. No, why? Because we're fighting over the phone. I'll take it as you're saying it. You're like, no. Okay. I'm going to say, like, that's so exciting to hear. And then you can take it. Oh, just grab my hand and move me over. Yeah. It was speaking of the ghost, what was the question? Speaking of the ghost. Speaking of the ghost. Can you talk about what it was like designing them? Designing their look and directing their performances. Okay. Which she also gives a non-answer to, but that's fine. So we should skip it? No. Okay. There's something there. Okay. Oh, that is so awesome to hear. Speaking of the ghost, can you tell us a little bit about the design process? And I already forgot the last part. Directing the performances. Okay. Okay. Oh, my God. That is so awesome to hear. Speaking of the ghost, can you tell us a little more about the design process and the directing that went into it? Directing the performances. Yeah, directing their performance. I don't know why I said that. Okay. You're a scare actor. You get it. I know. Oh, my God. That is so exciting. I am so happy to hear this. Speaking of the ghost, can you tell us a little more about the design process and the direction? Oh, my God. Why do I keep fucking that up? And directing the actors. Directing the actors. Directing their performance. Directing the fucking performances. One more time and I got it. I am faceless. Okay. Okay. Okay. Oh, my God. I am so excited to hear that. Like, you don't even know the ghost. They're my favorite part of this. Speaking of the ghost, can you tell us a little more about the design process and directing their performances? Yeah. They were one-liners on the script, so you kind of just had this blank page to work with for the most part. We kept looking for source material that served as inspiration for the ghost. So when you were wandering through this glass house, you would see something and go, like, well, wait a minute. Isn't that, for example, there's the African-American ghost with all the nails in it, for example. And we found part of it, it's a West African tribe that makes these sculptures that have nails in them. And it was like, oh, we've got to put that in the house somewhere. So they came all sort of from some source of inspiration to a certain degree, I guess. And again, the rest was just imagination. What was your thought process for creating the actual horror scenes? Because, you know, jump-scare scenes and death scenes are hard to direct. How did you approach that? Do you want to take that one? Whoever. Have you had one recently? Yeah. I think I did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to take that one? Whoever. Have you had one recently? Yeah. I think I asked about the TV show. Okay. Well, I'm going to take it from you. Okay. So when approaching these jump-scare and horror scenes, those aren't easy to direct. Was there anything you did specifically in mind when you, how did you approach them? That's all you have to say is how did you approach them. Yeah. That was good when you grabbed the cord. So in directing the actual horror and jump-scare scenes, how did you approach creating those? Because those are the hardest things to direct in a horror movie. What was your thought process there? Again, not being well-schooled in that stuff, I kind of had to trust other people to say, that's scary because, you know, you're on set, you do it, nobody's frightened of anything. So you kind of have to go through, understand the editorial process to get to the prank, and make sure you cover all your bases. And then do the redirect when the actual moment comes. And then you also have to have something beyond that that kind of helps pay it off. So we looked at every single one of them and just tried to come up with enough there. The problem that I had with the whole thing is that I never felt scared enough. And so I was never sure it was working. So we just kind of found Indiana. Yeah, I mean, and it's interesting you say that because I've seen so many movies over the years that have tried to emulate what you did. And, you know, there's a movie that came out this last week called Tarot, which very, very much wanted to be 13 ghosts. And, you know, they did, instead of, you know, the dark, I can't even say what the word, the Zodiac, the dark Zodiac, they did a tarot card. And, you know, each character came to life, and they didn't nail it. And, you know, 23 years later, and you're still the best at doing that, so that's got to feel cool. No, that doesn't need to be there. I don't think that's... I appreciate the compliment. I never felt like we kind of nailed it altruistically. I came from a visual effects background, and I kept... Yeah, we can just include this part in something. Yeah. Me too. Yeah, it's like a lot of me type music. It's like, you're so cool! Can you play this at, like, a faster speed? No, I don't think I can. I can try. I'm sure I can, actually. The second film... And I don't think the second film is as successful, frankly. I mean, I've read extensively about, you know, all the trouble you had with, you know, the scripts and... Especially with 9-11 and, you know, all of the hurdles you had to jump through. And even still, I mean, I know that Ghost Ship isn't the movie you wanted to make, but it's still... I mean, that opening sequence, I know you've heard it a million times, it's still looked at as one of the best, you know, openings in the history of horror. Like, you have a place in, like, cinematic history. Yeah, so cool. I gotta tell my grandchildren that, don't I? Aww. Just get around Grandpa, and he's got a bunch of people in it. Out on the bounds one night, you know? But, you know, I mean, like, I know it's easy to, like, self-appreciate it, but, like, you... The architecture of that scene, the way you compose those shots, that's what makes that scene great. It's not just schlocky gore. It's just really well done. Is that a pause? I think that... I think we can include the... We don't need to rewind, but we can include the Grandpa part. If we say, like... If you pause, and then... Like, and then he says that, and then pause and then laugh into the next... I don't know. What do you want me to do? Oh, he doesn't... So, basically, the first part of it, we were, like... I think we... So we have to do a different segue from, like, it's not the movie you wanted to make, because we're not going to include the part of him saying, like, 13 Ghosts didn't work. I'm sorry, it didn't work. But we can say... Your next movie... Your next movie, Ghost Ship, basically solidified as... The next movie, Ghost Ship, solidified as... What did he leave off when it was the last thing that he said? I mean, still... I mean, I know that Ghost Ship isn't the movie you wanted to make. He basically said 13 Ghost Ship... That Ghost Ship didn't work. So we're not including that? No, we're not including that. One of the best, you know... So just say... In the history of horror, like... Just say that... Oh, shit, what did I do? Yeah, you could say that, then he does the grandpa thing and just laugh into the question, if you remember it. You know... Like, I know that Ghost Ship... You had a lot of hurdles that you were jumping through, and I know in the end, it wasn't the movie that you had set out to make, but... You composed one of the best opening themes in the history of horror. Like, you have solidified a place in cinematic history with one theme. So you think you can say... Yeah. You know, it... The original script was so much more... Pause. Do we want all of this stuff where he bitches about Ghost Ship? No, I mean, we're not going to include all of it, but we can talk... I can just have the grandpa part. Yeah. If you don't think this is relevant or interesting... I mean, it's just him bitching about wanting to make a fucking adventure movie. No, we shouldn't include that. We can have it in the full-length one, but we don't need that. If there's anything that, like a sentence he says... I am interested in hearing this. Well... I know that's not the thought process when something hasn't gone your way, but, I mean, at least you got to make it, and at least there's something in it that people really resonate with. Yeah. And you're absolutely... So, on your website, I was reading your artist statement, and there's something that resonated with me. You talk about story versus image and the art between the brush strokes, and I guess I find that interesting because you could look at 13 Goats and it could have been this schlocky Halloween release movie that is easily forgettable, but what gives it its longevity is this sort of subtext for grief and this vulnerable performance from Tony Shalhoub, and I'm wondering how much of that was on the page, and how much of that was created just by you and Tony working together? You know, I think... Yeah, that was a good question. On your website, you have an artist statement where you talk about image... And the brush stroke. No, image versus story and finding the art between the brush strokes, and it really resonated with me because 13 Goats could have been this cheesy Halloween release, it was a Halloween release movie, but instead, it's this really great subtext for grief, and that's really found in the subtlety of Tony Shalhoub's performance. Was that something that you and him worked out with together for this movie? Do you want to say the first part and then I'll say the second part? Yeah. That makes more sense for you to talk about the website? Yeah. And then... Also, we can do it like this. Right. So you say the first part and then I'll say the schlocky Halloween part. But I won't say schlocky because that's a funny word. It'd be a cheesy Halloween film, and then the rest of it was... 13 Goats could have been this cheesy Halloween film, but it became... But instead, it's like a subtext for... Wait. But what makes it real is the subtext... Of grief. Of grief. Okay. That's found in Tony Shalhoub's performance. Okay, and that really comes through from Tony Shalhoub's performance. Yeah. Was that something... Did that come from you and him working together? Yeah. Okay. So, you know, you know, on your... Oh, I shouldn't say that. So, on your website, you say something that I found really interesting. Um... Fuck. Um... Let's go there. So... So, on your website, you say something that I found really interesting. You wrote in your artist statement this thing about, you know, story versus image and finding the art between the brush strokes. And, you know, that really resonated with me. Just do it one more time from the top, but we should have the phone like this so we can just say it. Okay. So, you say something like... Fuck. Like, um... It's okay. So, you say something on your website that I found really interesting. In your artist statement, you talk about story versus image and finding art between the brush strokes. And that really resonated with me because... I don't know how you want to... Just say... You can just say that really resonated with me as an artist. Well, because it goes into... Like, because he taught... What his artist statement says means subtext. And then he put subtext into a horror movie. Okay. Well, you can just say and that really resonated with me. And then I'll keep going. Okay. You say something I found very interesting on your website. You talk about story versus image and finding art between the brush strokes. And that really resonated with me. Yeah. I mean, 13 Ghosts could have been this, like, cheesy Halloween movie. But instead, it has a subtext of grief that I think really comes through from Tony Shalhoub's performance. Was that something that... That came from working with him? Like, that came from you two working together? It was more just... Just discovering it on set and just discovering the sincerity of the people involved. You know? Even on the ghosts themselves, the people that were portraying the ghosts, there was this sense that... This is... A man loses his wife in the opening title. You know? You get that right away so you know what this film is saddled with emotionally. And you can't just walk away from that. And so, I think everybody just said, hey, that's what this story is actually about. It's about somebody, to your point, dealing with their grief and then finding somebody who's actually so diabolical to take advantage of that. Deserves to die the way that, you know, he dies at the end. But don't ever lose the heart of the man who suffered the grief to begin with because if you do that and you dump that off to the side, it becomes, you know, just people running around screaming. And I think everybody kind of finally just sort of said, this is more than just running around and screaming story. And that's what we kind of actually salvaged from it. And I don't think Joel was ready for that. When they, when they, when the studio saw, you know, the initial cut, what was their reaction to that? Wait, did they have a response to that? Yeah. Okay. Do you want to take it? Oh, sure. When the studio saw the first cut, what was their reaction? When the studio saw the... When the studio saw the... One more time. When the studio saw the first cut, what was their reaction to it? Did you have the final cut on it or... Oh, should I say that whole thing? Or does that not matter? He said something and you missed it. I did not. I'm not happy if... The final, final cut was pretty close to... The studio saw, you know, the initial cut. What was their reaction to that? I don't know. I wasn't invited. How fucking nuts is that? Okay. So... Yeah, let's react to that. Yeah. Oh, okay. That is crazy. Yeah. So, he just says, I wasn't invited. What?! And then it was, did you get final cut? Oh, yeah. What?! Did you get final cut? Did you have final cut on it or... No, no. I did not. I had my cut. The eventual, the final, final cut was pretty close to our cut because we didn't shoot a lot of other stuff. But Joel had his editor come in and chop away at things and I wasn't a fan of that guy because he came up with storylines that just wasn't fucking there. And you kind of go like, you're ruining it. You're actually, you're disassembling the spirit of this piece. You're not helping. You're just trying to make a difference. So, don't. Stop. Fuck it off, will you please? So, luckily, luckily Joel thought through what it was too and was like, nah, we don't need to go that route. We don't need to go down those roads. But, yeah, that's the way that Joel worked. You know, you kind of did the work. Gave it to him and he gave you a check and he said, thank you, I'll see you later. That's kind of what happened. So, you know, 23 years later and, like, I mean, I'm not sure where you are and I know that you've retired and you have other mediums of art that you pursue now, but like, Thirteen Ghosts is more popular than ever. I mean, like, it's become like a global cult classic. I know. I was reminded of this being at some screening last year. You don't want to say that. Yeah, because it goes into like a personal anecdote kind of thing. Oh, yeah. So, 23 So, 23 years later and, you know, I'm not sure how aware you are, but Thirteen Ghosts is more popular than ever. Like, it is a bonafide cult classic at this point. Yeah, my husband and I were there. Yeah, my husband and I were there. It was sold out. I'm a terrible actor. It was sold out. Do you want to say it one more time? It was sold out. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.