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The podcast "Books, Blackouts, and Brunch" discusses books, shares their experiences visiting bookstores, and talks about their thoughts on the "A Court of Thorns and Roses" series. They discuss guessing a riddle from the first book and their thoughts on certain characters and plot points. They also question whether some characters deserve redemption arcs. We are Books, Blackouts, and Brunch, where we talk shit about some books we're reading, we black out in some bookstores, and we may or may not have a memos or two in the process. Just a quick note before we get started that we recorded today's episode on January 26th, so we had no idea about the contents of Crescent City 3, which will be very obvious very soon. Should we get into it? Yes. All right. Oh my gosh. Let's go. Getting into the big stuff. There's Waterlogged and, uh, Well Loved. Kaylee has been through it. It's been through it. It was on a pontoon, um, a pontoon where all the best books are at. Yeah. Apparently, I need to get out on a pontoon with a book. I think we should rent one this summer. Oh, perfect. We can take all the mimosas we need. Yeah, we'll have brunch on the pontoon with some books. Live out our summer court fantasies on the pontoon in the middle of Lake Erie. Obsessed. I don't know if Lake Erie is going to meet, like, Adriana's level, but I don't think it will, but that's as close as we're going to get. Way to pretend. With enough mimosas, we can do anything. Oh, true, true. I think with enough mimosas, it will be a dream. It'll be like we are sailing across the bluest ocean in Mexico just on vacation. But alas, we're on Lake Erie. You know, if we can dream it, we can do it. All right, all right, let's get into it. Again, spoiler alert, we're about to discuss all of the A Court of Thorns and Roses series, maybe, if we stay on topic this time. What do we want to start with? Okay, I have a question for the two of you because I don't think we have ever actually talked about the riddle from book one. Oh, murder me. Because, okay, did you guys guess the riddle the first time it was in? No. I'm 100%. I was going to say, I don't think I did, but I'm 100% positive that I did the thing where I started to skim the riddle, and then I said, I don't care about this enough, and this is not important enough. And I don't know that, because you texted us, like, the riddle, it's like on our screenshot for the pod. And I read it, and I was like, I don't think I've ever read this in my entire life. To be fair, when I copied it over into our notes doc, I was like, was it really this long? I was like, I don't think I've ever heard this in my life. So I really think when I read this book, I like skimmed it. And I was like, it wasn't an immediate, like, instantaneous answer in my head. I probably didn't even read all of the words. And I was like, the answer is going to come up like either she's going to know it or she's not, I'm going to find out what the answer is. I'm not going to sit here and think about it. And so I just didn't. I was like, oh, well, well, I was a complete opposite. I like finished it immediately. I was like, oh, that's love. And then I was like, that's so obvious. It can't possibly be that. I mean, I feel like I read it. And I feel like perhaps I was like, well, it could be this. But it can't be that. And then I just read it. And then I kept reading it more. I read it too many times, I think, because I'm like, no, it's not that. And then I just overthought it. I think I was just dead set on like, I hate being wrong. So I wasn't even going to like to attempt. I wasn't even going to digest it. I was like, you can't be wrong if you don't guess the answer. So I was like, she'll figure it out. Because let's be honest, I was going to be offended if Sarah, an illiterate teenager, could not figure out the answer to this riddle. And I couldn't. That's really fair. I mean, I don't really count myself as getting it. And I'm a literate 26 year old. But you know, it's fine. It's fine. At least I don't have to fight a worm. So we all just to clarify, we did all see the worm from SpongeBob in our head. Yeah. So the worm, W-Y-R-M, is the worm, W-O-R-M, from SpongeBob. Yes. And that is precisely what I texted you to when I read that part. I'm pretty sure. I was working at the library and I was dying. I was like, that's the worm from SpongeBob. Oh, let's clarify. Meg has the best visual imagery. What? Who is Count Chocula? Is that the adder? Yeah. Which is so interesting that you called the adder. I thought it was a tour. I say a tour. Oh, I don't know why. I don't think it's right. Who's to say? The double P and the O? It is. I don't know. Something about that makes me feel like the... It's the a tour. It sounds also more ominous that way. Adder is like, are you saying ladder? Otter. Are you saying otter? I am. I'm from West Virginia, y'all. We're going to say adder. I hope you're not emphasizing your Gs where I'm from. Well, it's just, I don't know. It's also like capital A. Like, that's giving Count Chocula. Yeah. Okay. As I was typing up my notes, I kind of had a moment where I was like, what the fuck happened to Alice? Okay. You said Alice. This is when I said Alice. Oh my God. Oh, that's Alice. She was the tree bark lady. The tree bark lady that helps Farrah in the first book. Sent her back. Sent her under the mountain. She was like, here, go die. Wait. Oh. That had like the two nephews. Yeah, the two nephews in like the summer court. Was she like kicked out of summer court? I think she, I think Alice was kicked out of autumn court or like she fled. Yeah, I think she fled. I think it was a story of that. She was wherever, where was she? She was in spring court. She was in spring court. So she had taken refuge, I think, because... She was taking refuge there for sure. Yeah. I just don't remember where she came from. From, I think it was autumn. Yeah. I mean, if she's... She's tree bark. So autumn wouldn't be very friendly. I completely forgot about her. Do you think it was like a malicious intent? I don't think it was. No, I don't think she just really didn't know what was happening. My thing was more like, are we ever going to see her again? Yeah, like where did she go? She was a very prominent character in book one. Do we assume she died with the masses? It's either that. I would love to believe she left the spring court after helping Feyre get under the mountains. Yeah. So I'm just like, is she going to pop up at any point in a different court? Or is that just like the end of Atlas? I mean, that's a really good question because I forgot she existed. So she could have never, if she would have shown up again, chances are I would have been like, oh my god, a new character. But let's be honest, it is not unlike SAM to forget about characters. That's very true. There are characters in the Throne of Glass that you legitimately, they're just roaming the continent for three books and you don't know anything about them. Yeah. Well, I guess I'll learn that when I read them. Super cute. You'll literally forget they exist. I can't wait. Yeah, like Atlas. I'm just going to disappear. Kind of forgot about Tam Tam in the last book, to be honest with you. Tam Tam? Oh, in Silver Flames? Yeah, I just like, he was, is he present at all in Silver Flames? I don't think so. No. And I feel like the question at the end of my Silver Flames note, I posed the question with Silver Flames of do people deserve redemption arcs? Because the last scene with Tamlin at the end of Acolour is when Rhys visits him in the Spring Court. Did that happen in Acolour or did that happen in Silver Flames? But do you know the scene I'm talking about where like Rhys goes, like personal, or did that happen in Frosted Starlight? I don't know. All I can picture is Cassian going and sneezing. Like, oh, that was Frosted Starlight, wasn't it? Or was it Silver Flames? I read them both, like, back to back. So I can't remember. I do not remember. Yeah, Cass sneezing was either in Frosted Starlight or Silver Flames. Oh, no, I think the Cass sneezing was mentioned in Acolour as one reason that like, he doesn't like to go to the Spring Court. Oh. But he does, right? Right. It might have even come up in Akamaf when we first met him, because it was just like a thing that when he showed up in the Spring Court, he was sneezing. Because then he had to explain it to Nesta, because they ended up in the Spring Court, I think, in Silver Flames. Yeah. And they like, oh, because they were in the Urid, in that, like, swamp. Oh, the swamp. I was like, the what? O-O-R-I-D, the Urid. The swamp. The Urid. With, you got the mask? Yeah, the swamp. Did you say Urid? Urid. I'm imagining it sounding kind of Dutch, like Urid, like just like a long O, but I don't know. I could be really wrong about that. Okay, well. We'll have to listen to the audiobook. Apparently. Well, the scene I was thinking of is when Rhys goes to the Spring Court and visits Tamlin in the manor, because at this point Tamlin has, like, been left alone in there. Yeah. And when Rhys finds Tamlin, he is, there's a bunch of blood dripping off the table, because of the animal that he's going to feed and stuff. Okay, I know what you're talking about. And it definitely reads as though it's planting the seeds for Tamlin getting some sort of redemption arc. And so between that and all of Silver Flames, really, kind of just like, do people deserve redemption arcs? It's something Sarah Jane Moss likes doing. Yeah. Because it does happen in Throne of Glass. No spoilers since Meg hasn't read it, but. I wouldn't call that a redemption arc. What the fuck is the point of Tower of Dawn if not a redemption arc? I wouldn't call it a redemption arc. That is a hundred percent. But his level of betrayal is so different than Tamlin's level of betrayal. I a hundred percent agree. However, you cannot convince me that her intention, at least to start with, with writing that book, was not to give him a redemption arc. Maybe. But like, that's like, that's like. Did it end up being more? Yes. One said, you're a dumb bitch. Why would I be on your side? And one said, let me just feed our continent to the King of Hybrids. Neither of them knew what the fuck they were doing or talking about. So. Yeah. I think the difference would be. Are you a Tamlin sympathizer? No, and that's my problem is I don't want him to get a redemption arc. And I feel like that's what we're going to get at some point. I feel like the only way to really get like a true Tamlin redemption arc, though, is to get like almost an entire book in his perspective like they did Silver Flames. Because I think a big part of Nesta's redemption is that it's in her perspective. And like, you're hearing her innermost thoughts of like her actively trying to like be better and like why she's acting the way she is. And like, even when she doesn't know why she's acting the way she is. But see, I saw somebody had said something that was like, if you don't like Silver Flames, like if you still hate Nesta after Silver Flames, it's because you've had to deal with a Nesta. But if you if you understand Nesta after Silver Flames, it's because you were a Nesta. And like, I don't know that I'm either one of those people. But I actively hated her character development. Even in Silver Flames? Yeah. Really? Interesting. I like just something about I, it could be that like the timeline in Silver Flames was just so dramatically short, that like, it made everything seem just really like wonky. The book itself was so long, but the timeline was so short that. Yeah, but I just like, I yeah, hot take on the unpopular opinion. Like, I hated Nesta at the beginning. I hate Nesta at the end. Cassian is my favorite character in the whole series. And I hate like it burns my soul that he is like, I love Nesta because I'm like, you could have done better. I wasn't completely sold on Nesta by the end of Silver Flames. I did have a moment with her. And it's when she and Cassian go to the mountain when they flee, after Nesta has told Feyre the situation with the baby. And Rhys is just like, get that girl. And Rhys tells Cassian to get Nesta the fuck out of there. When they finally do talk while they're on the mountain, that scene, I only have three pages tabbed in that entire book, because I didn't super care for that book, to be totally honest, that scene is tabbed. It's one of my tabbed ones, because the way that Nesta finally was able to vocalize her feelings and perspective, I did relate to. I found myself relating to a lot of what ends up being four Nesta coping habits that she developed. And so in that moment, I softened toward her because I recognized maybe you inherently are not a bad, malicious person who is selfish and has ill will towards everyone around you. But you just don't know how to express yourself any different way. And I think Nesta having that self-realization in that moment was really powerful. But it wasn't enough for me to fully be on her side yet. Yeah, I guess I don't hate her. And it's not like there weren't moments that were relatable. She definitely became humanized in Silver Flames versus just being the demonic older sister. But I was not endeared to her character in any way. I feel like we tried so hard, like, oh, the house is giving her smutty books. We're all relating. We're all going to be besties. And I was just like, I'm over it. I'm over it. That's fascinating. Yeah, she was not doing it for me. Although, if we're being fair, Silver Flames in general did not do it for me. Same. I was mad when I finished that book. I mean, I could have done more at the end if there was more after the coming together of everyone. But like you, Eileen, I loved the scene on the mountain with Cassian. Because I do think there's a very big truth. And once you can voice those feelings that are eating away at you, I feel like that's really, really helpful. And so I think it could be taken by—I mean, it was taken by me like that and other readers perhaps, that once you're able to talk to someone about something like that, it does help. So it could tie into talking about something that's really, really hard. And then you're like, oh, there's no way anyone else can understand this. Which is, I think, how she was feeling most of the book, was like, I'm literally evil. I'm awful. No one will understand why I'm feeling like this. And she felt like she had no reason to feel like that. Well, it was that and I don't think anybody else realized that her demeanor was in large part because of the amount of self-hatred she had. Yes. Yeah, exactly. It was so much self-loathing that it was almost like she didn't know what to do with it. Her body didn't know what to do with it. And I think in that way, I do sympathize a bit with her because of that. Because it's like, yeah, if you hate yourself that much, how else are you going to act? Exactly. How else are you supposed to interact with all these people who are so loving and like themselves? I think that was the biggest thing for me, was understanding the way that she sees herself and the way that every other person in that book sees themselves is so different. And even if Cassian was like, oh, I've had to kill people and do all these things. But him doing that was not like, he's a warrior. He obviously was going to kill people. But the scene that I had to take a little rest was the one I sent you guys a page of. It was her conversation with Amran at the very end. Yeah. That, I was sitting there on the couch, tears welled up. And I was like, all right, I'm going to read that. Her relationship with Amran is a special relationship, I think. I think my biggest gripe with the book is that that breakthrough happened so late in the book. And we did not get enough time with her after having that breakthrough. And maybe that's like what my big problem was, was like, you gave me so much time to hate her and be annoyed with her. And it's like other book series that we've talked about recently that like, you're rehashing the same thing over and over again for the whole book. Like, no names mentioned. Do you know who you are? Yeah, everybody knows who I am. And I haven't read it. But yeah, I just felt like we were rehashing that like, Nessa's a bitch, Nessa's a bitch. And at the same time, we're rehashing Nessa hates herself, Nessa hates herself, Nessa hates herself. I'm like, okay, can we like, resolve something in some capacity, like, instead of just introducing more and more shit? Yeah. Yeah. It took so long to get there. And then I didn't like, my beef with the ending was the ending of the book. And like, maybe she's setting us up for like, the rest of the series. But like, the whole ending section was like, Aris. And like, like the like, trick dagger scenario and Aris and all of that. I like I was like, I genuinely do not know what the point of this is. Yeah, we have like a whole separate, like, if you were drawing a plot diagram, we have now diverged like a metaverse within the same thing. Like what is happening? I was like, I don't know what's going on anymore. And it was like, SJM is known for the last 100 pages of her books being crazy shit shows. Yeah. I felt like Silver Flame, it just wasn't done well. No, it was like, normally, I feel like she's chaos, but chaos in a very controlled, very planned, very methodical, like you can draw a line from the chaos. It all comes together. And this one, I felt like we just kept getting more chaos. Yeah, yeah. And no resolution. Yeah, I do feel like if the Amran conversation have happened, so let's say, because they went on to the mountain. And then the conversation with Amran happened, I think. Or was it the opposite way around? I think it. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I think it was Mountain and then... Because then it was like, right before the whole thing with Feyre happened. Yes. Which I think if that had happened, so it's like the mountain thing had happened a little earlier, that would've been great. Because then it was the mountain thing, which I think was great. Very lovely team building, sisterhood situation. Love that group. Are you talking about the right? Yeah, wait. Are you talking about a different mountain thing than what I was talking about? Because her being on the mountain with Cass is different from when they went back to the right. No, I'm talking about the right. Well, no, the mountain thing, like, with the girlies. Okay, the right. The right. The mountain thing with the girlies. Yeah, that is what we're calling it. From the mountain cabin trip and they got kidnapped and thrown in the woods with no weaponry. But I think it showed their resilience and I think it was a very good showcasing of how close they had become and how Nesta had grown and being able to show care and love for other people, which I think in turn helped her. She sacrificed for other people and Nesta had never sacrificed before that. When you look at it from a character development standpoint, which I've never thought of it like that. That's a very valid argument. You're like, I guess so. Are we in Hailey's mind? I think we might be. No, it makes sense now as like a plot development device, like a character development device. Yeah. However, them winning the right, dumbest thing I've ever heard. Well, I mean, they trained for like a month. You're telling me these bad boys that trained their whole entire fucking lives lost to three girls that have been training for a month? But you have to remember that the bad boys are still boys and they're kind of dumb. I was about to say that. I was about to say that. I was about to say they are men. They're men. What's the trending audio right now? I would say it's like, I mean, a boy could do it. Yes. Yeah. So I get like, what is the audio? It's something relating to like, if a guy can do it, like, why can't I? Yeah. And it's like, these, the Illyrians are still men. And I think they're all like, they are so gung ho about like, killing people and getting to that, that they probably didn't realize that there were three girlies who had just like, trained their asses off. Which is true. Like, we need to, we need to realize the unrealistic expectation we have just created. She could not do a sit up. And then like, we're like a month later. Yeah. Yeah. That's something else. Let me tell you. I don't know how girlie couldn't do a sit up, but she could do 10,000 stairs. But she also, just remember, when she couldn't do a sit up, she was also just like, drinking however much every night, and like, not doing a goddamn thing. And then she shows up and does this. I'm like, you know, you do it, girl. I'm all for it. I'm all for the character development. But I do think if that at all, if like, the right had happened, the conversation with Amran had all happened a little earlier in the book, and then the birth had happened. I think that was also like a very big, like, sacrificial thing that she did. Like, she did sacrifice her magic, essentially, for her sister, because she saw like, how much it was going to impact, like, everybody. So it was not only- Okay, but I'm going to be a Nesta hater here. Let's hear it. She let her sister hunt in the woods alone as a teenager and be single handedly responsible for their family's food and well being for how many years? And then she's like, I mean, I guess I'll save your life. I'll give up a little bit of magic that you sort of gave me to save your life. But can I counter that and say that she had already been aware of the fact that that was fucked up, like, way in the beginning of the book? But being aware of it, I feel like that makes it worse. She's aware that it's fucked up, but she did nothing about it. No, but she was like, I can't go back and fix it now. It was done. And that's what she kept telling Cass about. She's like, I let her do that. Yeah. And I will never forgive myself for it. So she's already self-loathing herself. Yeah, so her saving Sarah then isn't even sacrificial. It's more self-beneficial. If I return this favor now, we have equalized. I don't think it's a return of a favor. I think it's that she saw how much it would impact everyone's lives and how much it would impact hers. And then she realized how important she is to her. Because I think she had seen, this is my sister. And I think after she hurt her, by telling her about the whole the babe thing, I think she realized how much she cared about her. Because I think there is a thing that happens. I don't know. I've done it to my brother, where I've told him how mad I am. And there was at one point, we swam together. And there was one day we had this huge fight. And I told him that I didn't look up to him anymore. And I felt awful. Because I knew that it was a deep cut. And it wasn't even true. I was just mad. And I was 14. I was pissed off. Remember that in book one, after Tamlin takes Feyre, Nesta knew something was up. Like the glamour didn't work on Nesta. She rode the horse all the way to the wall to try to find her sister. I mean, I'm not saying that Nesta didn't love Feyre. I'm just saying that calling Nesta saving her life at the end of the book sacrificial seems a little extra. I don't think that she was sacrificing herself. But I think there was a part of her that she sacrificed her magic, which had helped people. She had known that it could do these crazy things. In terms of, she could have probably won a war with that magic. And she gave it all up, and whatever future needs of it, because she wanted to save her. Wasn't it her magic? I thought those extra powers came from because she had the trove items. It was just the cauldron. It was her magic. Because remember, she could also imbue her magic into the sword, like Ataraxia. She could make shit. I don't know how to feel about the fact that her first sacrifice was with Squid and Emery, and not her family. I don't know if that makes me feel like the sacrifice for Feyre was more meaningful, or not. Or do they have to be compared? Fair point. Because I think she did consider them both sisters. In the book, they reference each other as sisters. And I think maybe she sees them on an equal, even though obviously a family connection can be, but doesn't always have to be, as strong as a friendship connection. But I think she kind of went through a lot with the two of them. Maybe a better question then is, would Nesta have sacrificed her magic to save Feyre, had she not already had to make some sort of sacrifice with Gwyn and Emery? I don't know. But I feel like Gwyn and Emery are like, her relationship with Gwyn and Emery is like a parallel of her relationship with Feyre and Elaine. So Gwyn and Emery is like, the sisterhood she could have had with her sisters, had she been a good person. I've never thought of it that way. And it's like, what could be, or what could have been. And then she has her family relationship. It makes it more moving. Thank you. I think both show her growth. I think to me, her sacrificing for Feyre isn't sacrificial in a sense that it's so much just her forgiving herself and paying back the debt of like, this was a situation that I put myself in. That's true. Versus because she realized, I can't actively sacrifice for people that are in my life. And so now she's like, oh, well, we're going to mark this as making up for lost time. This is what we should have been doing for each other kind of thing. I want to try moving us on to talking about some theories. I'm going to go back to the earlier question of like, do people deserve redemption arcs? Because for me, that poses the question of like, we got Silver Flames mostly from the perspective of Nesta. What does that mean for other characters like us, like Elaine? I love the theory that Mor is out gallivanting and being a villain in the background. I love, we don't know, we don't have any idea what Mor's out doing. That's so true. She's like, oh, I'm out here making some diplomatic relationships. I've never thought of it that way. With who? I've never considered the fact that she could be doing some shady shit while she's out there. She could be doing whatever the hell she wants. She could be jumping worlds. We don't know what Mor's doing. You don't think Rhys would be like going into her mind? No, I think Rhys trusts her implicitly. Yeah. Rhys is like, I will unleash Mor on the battlefield should my first and second fall. That's true. And he's not going to go on her mind. And she's played the political game her whole life. You think she can't come back and be like, oh, yeah, so-and-so, we're on the verge of this treaty. I don't know that it's valid. And I don't know that I'm necessarily for Mor being the villain, but I love it as a theory. Well, you brought up that point, though, where what the overall ACOTAR story is lacking right now is the clear villain. Yeah, no one knows who the villain is. Because now we're giving Tamlin a redemption arc. So he's not the villain. Highburn is obviously the villain. But like- He died. He died. And then we have this mysterious Koshai with a princess. Right. But like, where's Mor been? Yeah. But we have Koshai and Briellan. Well, Briellan died. She died. For the record, Meg had to clarify who Briellan was for me three times in the past week because I kept thinking- And here I completely forgot that she had been killed. I didn't know she existed. No, that was all. That was like the craziest bit was when Nesta got so mad because Briellan came to the right when they were like at the top, where she had taken down Emery's cousin. And Cass was like there. And she thought he was going to hug her. And then he basically was like, I'm going to rip your heart out. I was like, oh my god. Yes, that was good advice. And then Briellan just said, kill. Like, that was fucking crazy. And then Briellan was like, kill. But Cassian, being the smart fairy man that he is, no. So he used the blade and pretended to stab himself and acted like he killed himself because she never said like, kill who? So he could then take the kill command and not do it to himself, but then do it to her. But I'm pretty sure he had whipped around and done something to Briellan and then Nesta got a hold of her and literally like burnt her to a fucking crisp. Like, she like incinerated her into like- Were there flames? Were there flames? Or did she- Is that what he's talking about? Let me- Were there flames or did she like disintegrate? Because that could mean something different, I feel like. Oh shit. I can see if I can find the page. I'm also just picturing a vacuum cleaner. While Meg looks that up, other villain theories. How do we feel about Elaine being the villain? I have mixed feelings about this one because we don't actually- I guess for the same argument, like, we don't know what Elaine's up to. Like, we never know where- Moore's off doing something somewhere. We know that, and I feel like that gives her more ability. And Elaine is, for the most part, was just like in her room, so we at least know her location. But like, her like affinity for like scribing and like the divination type scenarios, like, I feel like put her at like a mental risk of connecting with some power. It's either that or she knows more than she's letting on. Yeah, or she's the passive villain. Maybe she just like knows everything and it's just like letting things right out. She's like, yeah, I'll do you. Good luck with that. I love that you trust this person. I don't know how I feel about it either. I do find it interesting that how little we have gotten about Elaine. Yeah, we don't have any- We really don't get anything for her. Can I say really interesting info here? I, this whole time, pretty much thought Elaine was younger because she seems like a little baby rabbit. Like, that's what she seems like to me. Yeah. I didn't know she was older. Yeah, she's the middle sister. Yep, didn't know she was older than Farrah. I think Farrah should be the middle sister, personally. It fits her personality, because I think I knew- It does. I think I knew logically that Elaine was the middle, and I remember reading that. She has a middle drawer, like I remember all of that. Yeah. But like, behavior-wise, yeah, Farrah's the middle child. If Farrah's giving middle child energy- Yep. Yeah, Elaine's giving youngest child energy. And it would make more sense if Farrah was out in the woods. Yep. Yeah. Like, who, who? What mom would harshest on her. Yeah, that's always middle child. Yep. That's middle child energy right there. Although, I did find the quote. Do you want me to read part of it? I can skip around. "...against a crown's hold, against a grasping briallen, he chose to drive the knife into his own heart. Kill, she had said, but had not specified who. And as the sun broke over the horizon, as Cassian's knife plunged for his chest, Nesta erupted with the force of the cauldron. There was nothing in Nesta's head but screaming, nothing in her heart but love and hatred and fury as she let go of everything inside her and the entire world exploded. The bang of her magic was a beast with no name. Avalanches cascaded down the cliffs and sea- She called it avalanches? "...trees bent and ruptured in the wake of the power that shattered from her. Distant seas drew back from their shores, then raced in waves toward them again. Glasses shook and shattered in Velaris, books tumbled off the shelves-" In Velaris? "...in Helion's thousand libraries, and the remnants of a run-down cottage in the human lands crumbled into a pile of rubble." Which, I didn't catch that when I was reading this at first. That's their house. Oh my- I feel like that has to have crossover implications. I mean- There has to be. We already know it does from the previews. At least, somewhat. Oh, really? Meg and I are not on the full Crescent City train, so Eileen's dying because we can't- I know. I'm enjoying it, though. You guys have read the, like, previews, though. I think, Kaylee, you sent it in one of our chats, because it was one of the- Oh, like, one of the releases on Instagram? I thought you meant, like, the prologue- No, no, no. I haven't read the prologue or first chapter. I refuse to until I have the books. Fair. But yeah, in the previews for Crescent City 3, it's Bryce, Nesta, and Az. Yeah. And so that, to me, says, I don't know, I think, Nesta sacrificed some of her power, not all of it. So I think whatever's left is consequential enough for what's happening. I'm excited. Also, can we just talk about, Cassian was, like, wholeheartedly stabbing himself in the heart. We gotta keep going, right? Yeah, I can finish this bit. But I just, crazy that's their house. I didn't realize that. I didn't realize that either. But all Nesta saw was Briellan. All she saw was the slack-jawed crone as Nesta leaped upon her, throwing her frail body to the rocky ground. All she knew was screaming as she clutched Briellan's face, the crown glowing blindingly white, and roared her fury to the mountains, to the stars, to the dark places between them. Gnarled hands turned young. Aligned face became beautiful and lovely. White hair darkened to raven black. But Nesta bellowed and bellowed, letting her magic rage. Unleashing every ember. Erasing the queen beneath her from existence. The young hands turned to ash. The pretty face dissolved into nothing. The dark hair withered into dust. Until all that was left of the queen was the crown on the ground. But there wasn't actually fire. There was embers. She un-aged her. Yeah, that's really interesting. Oh yeah, and then he, uh, it's like she took the cauldron's power back. Oh, he said you unmade her. Oh, okay. Because she was made, so like, she has the ability to unmake things. Make and unmake things. DVD though, because of whatever she sacrificed. Yeah, so she could make and unmake things. Don't even look at her like that. I need something, because I feel like I know where you're going, but I'm not there. The horn! The horn. We need to move on before the crescent's viral. I will say. Meg has not read Crescent City. Yeah. To be fair, I haven't read the second one, and so I could be way the hell off. To be fair, I read the second one, and don't remember a lick of it. Except for the final fucking sentence. I'm on page 160-something. Oh, you're still on the worst. You're still on the bad. You're still on the me texting Aileen. I'm like, I want out of this book. Oh, honestly, I'm enjoying myself. I'm so glad. I don't know why. I've enjoyed it a lot. Yeah, I really like it. I like what we can get into on another episode. Last villain series. Asgrief. Oh, okay. I like As is a villain better than Reese. I feel like As is better motivation. I have notes on this. Oh, on Reese and Helen? Are you ready? Well, not that like I think he's a villain, but just like generally some thoughts. I wrote down just like... Oh, that's a lot of notes. That's a lot of notes. There's just like two bullet points. They're kind of sent to me. They're lengthy. I just have Reese evil question mark. I don't think he truly is, especially after seeing how he reacted during Feyre's labor, and how he then completely forgave Nesta for everything and allowed her in, like showed her his appreciation for like saving her. And I think then like kind of accepted her as the like sister-ish figure, like family member that she is, but he didn't really want her to be in the beginning. And I do think like there is the fan theory that Reese is like controlling everyone's minds because he did say he's like, oh, I could like literally control all of you and no one would ever know. But I think in his heart of hearts, I don't think he's truly like an evil character. I think he has his like close circle. I think he has the ability to do that. Like I think he could be evil if he really, really wanted to be. But in the case of him trusting Aerith with that blade and like trusting Feyre to make decisions and kind of creating those alliances, I don't see him being evil personally. I just don't know what his end game would be. What's the point of being evil and running under the mountain separate or running like the human city separate from Velaris and pretending like if you are truly the bad guy, why keep a beautiful city? Expand your influence. What if his end game is to take control over everything? But nobody knows about Velaris. Like his public image is that he's the villain. So like what is him being the villain actually? This is me playing devil's advocate because I don't think that race is evil either. But I'm like, okay. And then also like, I don't know that he actually does have that much power because unless he's playing into Amaranth, like playing with Amaranth, like he was genuinely trapped and miserable in being her whore. So like if he could just control everyone around him like that. I think he has the power because in Aquaward during the battle scene, he missed like I think it's like a third or a quarter. Yeah, like that's true. And I think Amaranth had blocked like some portion of his power and he still had a lot of it. I don't think it's a question of whether or not he has the power to do so. I think to your point, it's what would his motivation be. I also would love to know if he could actually control Amaranth. Oh, yeah. I want more on Amaranth. We all, girl, we all want more on Amaranth. So I'm just like, who is she? We think she's linked to Crescent City. Oh my God. I mean, that would make so much sense. I feel like you know who she's giving vibes of? Jezebel. I don't know why. Her and Jezebel seem like they could be besties. Did we ever figure out more about Jezebel and spoke to? I'm not saying shit. Anyway. I can't say a word. I also enjoyed to hear that Az is actually the villain that he's like kind of like. I don't think I've seen that one. You haven't seen that one? Because his shadows and like they're like, oh, well, he has kind of a lot of villain motivation and he's so quiet. And also while we're talking about Az being a bad guy, the Az characterization that we get and what the chapter that I mentioned earlier that we have not located. It's so different from every other characterization of Az that we ever get. To be fair, we don't get that much Az. Everybody has built Az to be their favorite and we don't have very much of him at all. Yeah. But the chapter in question, I don't know if you've read it because we were talking about it earlier. I don't think I have. I think I thought it was in the winter one, like the Frost and Charming. But maybe it's in. It's in Silver Flame. It's in Silver Flame. It's this chapter where they're exchanging. It's Christmas. It's a Christmas present though, isn't it? It is, yeah. And he basically gets in this argument with Reese because he's like, there are three of them and there are three of us. And why did the two brothers get the two sisters but I can't get Elaine? And it's literally like, she should be mine. I should have her. I deserve this. Like, fuck you. And then he re-gifts the gift. Yeah. And then he re-gifts the gift that he was getting to Elaine to Gwen. Oh my god, wait. I want to read this. And it's online. I can find it. Him and Reese get into it. Like, it's kind of like a big argument. Reese basically pulls his trump card. It's like, I am High King of the Night Court. Like, shut up. Like, no, that's not how you view this. Yeah. And I think it's crazy that we get that characterization and everybody is like, he's just such a sweetheart. And I'm like, no, he's not. First of all, he's your High Lord's torture chamber artist. Like, he's in that shit. Yeah. And then you get that characterization and we're like, oh yes, Az cannot be the villain. Az is our sweetheart. We love Az. And I'm like, we don't know anything about this guy. So I have a problem with the characterization of the bonus chapter. And it's that, in my opinion, it does not match any other characterization that we get for Az in any of the other books. Specifically, like, a lot of his interactions with Sarah or about Elaine, I'm just like, the two don't match. And like, I was trying to decide when I read it, if it's like, he is just lonely and frustrated or if it's this like, kind of like, meant to be eye-opening. Like, this is the Az behind closed doors. Yeah, because it really could go either way. Because we get a very, like, picture front of Az and Reese has been friends with Az for 500 years. So like, and he didn't seem super shocked by it, you know? Like, and he pulled that trump card rather fast and was like, shut up. So I'm like, is this really what's happening behind closed doors that we're not seeing? Right. Special thanks for this episode goes to our friend Dave, who taught us everything we know about how to record a podcast. Also, thanks to Chris and Ben for providing the mimosas while we recorded. And a final shout out to Sarah J Maas for writing these books. Be sure to follow at booksblackoutsandbrunchpod on Instagram and share with your friends.