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Podcast interview with mycologist Tess Lassman.
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Podcast interview with mycologist Tess Lassman.
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Tess Lassman is a mycologist based in Detroit who is passionate about studying fungi. She has dedicated half of her life to this field and has a formal education in microbiology. Tess's interest in mycology began after her first psilocybin experience, which solidified her connection with nature. Psilocybin mushrooms, also known as magic mushrooms, contain psychoactive compounds that can cross the blood-brain barrier and attach to serotonin receptors, enhancing mood, cognition, and perception. However, there is still a stigma around these organisms, and Tess believes that education is key to removing this stigma. She has even published a children's book called "The Very Merry Mushrooms" to educate young readers on the benefits of mushrooms. Tess explains that fungi and mushrooms are not interchangeable terms, as all mushrooms are fungi, but not all fungi are mushrooms. Mushrooms are the fruiting bodies of fungi, while the mycelium is the vegetative structure that exists underground. The Hey, it's Eddie Berlin, and today we're going to be interviewing an expert on one of the most forgotten and misunderstood organisms, fungi. Fungi, fungi, doesn't even matter. We'll get into things like what even is fungi, how does it work, what does it really even do, as well as what are magic mushrooms, and even how our expert is helping to save the city of Detroit with these fantastic organisms. Anyway, we're going to be talking to mycologist, founder of Fungi Freights, and avid fungi enjoyer, Tess Lassman. Hi, how are you? Good, how are you? I'm doing great. Thanks. Thanks. So just can you please take a moment to introduce yourself to all of our listeners and tell us about your background in mycology and like your educational journey and everything? Of course, I'm happy to. My name is Tess. I'm based out of Detroit, Michigan, and at this point in my life, I've dedicated about half of my life to studying fungi. I'm deeply passionate about these organisms. I have been for such a long time. My journey into mycology has been pretty interesting because most of it was self-taught or sought out. I've had many mentors on this ride as well as peers within the myco community that helped flourish this educational background in mycology. I do have formal education. There was like a point in time that I was like, I don't need a degree to, you know, solidify my intelligence. I had this rebellious nature come through at one point, but I ended up going back and getting a BS in microbiology from Wayne State University here in Detroit. And through that education, I realized the mainstream education barely scratched the surface of mycology. In my microbiology educational journey, most of it was focused on like pathogenic fungi at the university level. And I was like so much more curious beyond that. So that curiosity led me down a path of self-directed learning and exploration. So I went on a quest to deepen my understanding. I spent a lot of time in the woods. I spent a lot of time working with a mycologist out of the University of Michigan, Chris Wright, who is no longer with us. And, yeah, I kind of just took it upon myself to dive deeper into the world of mycology. And almost 10 years, over 10 years now, I, you know, started a few companies teaching and just trying to spread the word. Yeah, that's so awesome. That's great. So you talked about how it was halfway through your life. Was there a certain point or epiphany that you realized, like, this is just what you want to do? You know, it all kind of just comes together. There was an epiphany, absolutely. It was my first psilocybin experience in my early teens over 15 years ago now. And they just helped me so much. They really solidified that connection that I always felt in nature, the one that we all have. A lot of us, you know, are in tune with it, you know, some others not so much. And this journey really, you know, brought me to the realization that I want people to know, you know, about these fascinating organisms. I want people to love themselves, you know. So that's really, I think, the moment that I began, like, working for the mushrooms, you know, being a voice for the mushrooms. And everything kind of fell into place, you know, once I made that, you know, concrete decision. Yeah, I mean, psilocybin is obviously super awesome, so it has immense medical benefits. And do you think you can explain to us what it is, how it can help people and all that? Oh, yeah, we can we can dive down the rabbit hole a little bit when it comes to psilocybin containing mushrooms and in the compound itself. So I guess I'll just start with there's like more than two million species of fungi and about 200 of them contain psychoactive tryptamines, psilocybin being one of those tryptamines. So psilocybin mushrooms, also known as magic mushrooms, that's, you know, what more people, a lot of people refer to them as, they contain psychoactive compounds, psilocybin and psilocin. There's a few other alkaloids there, but we'll just talk about the main ones. And psilocybin, so psilocybin is the prodrug to psilocin. So once we ingest psilocybin, it then gets broken down as dephosphorylates into psilocin. And then that is able, that compound is able to cross the blood brain barrier and then it's pharmacologically active and it can attach to, it attaches to our 5-HT2A receptors. That's one of our serotonin receptors. And serotonin is really amazing, has many, many functions that enhances our mood, cognition, perception, sensory processing. So it can be very beneficial for us. You know, there's a lot of things that go along with it, increased brain connectivity. It has the ability to connect certain pathways in our brain that don't usually connect. I like to explain it to people like, you know, a lot of times we take like the same route home. And it's just like, you know, this default, you know, mode that we get into and it's just, you just kind of like do it. And when you take psilocybin, it's like taking the long way home, the back route, you know, going down roads like that you've never gone before. And in that sense, it really helps you to think in different ways. So as well as increasing neuroplasticity. So really awesome stuff that it does, you know, for us. Yeah, and that's only one of many, many, many benefits of these amazing forms of life. And but the sad thing is that there's just such a stigma around them. So like, how can we, especially with the magic mushrooms, quote unquote, and how can we like help remove this stigma and how can we really let the population know how important these organisms really are? Yeah, that's a very good point. There is a microphobia that that definitely exists today. Although, you know, our ancestors have had significant relationships with mushrooms throughout time, we've somehow lost that connection. And it is very important to revive it. I think through education, like honestly, educating people about the importance of mushrooms is most important. You know, a lot of this stigma and this phobia comes from lack of education or misinformation. The war on drugs had a terrible effect on mushrooms and other psychedelics. And I think really educating the community is most important, especially at, you know, the younger level. I actually just published a book, a children's book called The Very Merry Mushrooms. And it's just this cute little tale of, you know, just three mushroom characters that kind of educate children on the benefits of mushrooms. So things like that, you know, just trying to get as much education and information out there as possible. Yeah, that's super awesome. So speaking of education, how can we, in educating our audience, so can you tell them like what exactly fungi are, what are the mushrooms, which are the fruiting bodies of fungi and like how they reproduce? Oh, of course. Yeah, we can break it down a little bit and just, you know, define some of these terms. So I like to talk about fungi and mushrooms and how these words aren't like, shouldn't be exchanged with each other. More so, all mushrooms are fungi, but not all fungi are mushrooms. So when we say mushrooms, we're actually referring to the fruiting body that is like the apple on a tree. It's the reproductive part of the organism. So there are some fungi that don't produce fruiting bodies that we don't even see with the naked eye. So just that's a little tidbit of basic information on these organisms. And the spores are like the seeds. So that they house the genetic material that eventually get dispersed towards the end of the life cycle of this mushroom to carry on its existence. And the most important that, you know, the part of the mushroom that we don't see is the mycelium. That's the vegetative structure, the root-like structure of these organisms, and it exists underground. And it's absolutely amazing. It's tenacious. It's really, really good at what it does. It travels. It absorbs nutrients. It shares nutrients and forms really amazing relationships with other life on Earth. Yeah, so those relationships are super, super important and are possibly the reason for life itself, some people would say. So can you explain a couple basic relationships that this mycelium has and how it works on a basic level? Of course. So the reason being, and I am a firm believer of it being mycelium or fungi and mycelium being the root cause of, you know, terrestrial life on Earth and all life on Earth. Actually, the reason being, it is able to break down like very calcareous rock. So, you know, people predict that, scientists predict that it has broken down the bedrock of Earth, the crust of Earth, really early on in time and created soil. And that was, you know, where we were able to inhabit, you know, organisms, multicellular organisms were able to inhabit it. So mycorrhizal relationships are these symbiotic associations between fungi and roots of plants. Fungi obtain their nutrients in three different ways, parasitically, symbiotically, that's the mycorrhizal relationships, and saprophytically. So when we talk about these symbiotic associations, we're talking about mycorrhizal relationships, and that is a mutual beneficial partnership and it's very crucial for the health and functioning of many plant species and ecosystems. So a little bit how that happens is the mycelium will interact with the root system of these plants. And because mushrooms don't photosynthesize, they're not really able to make carbohydrates from those sugars. So in exchange for carbs and sugars from the plant, the mycelium will aid that plant in further nutrients like minerals from that bedrock. They're often able to penetrate further within the Earth than plant and tree roots, so they can bring up those minerals from that calcareous bedrock and share it with the plants. They're also really wonderful at traveling, so they can bring water from further depths and further out and share that with those plants and trees. Yeah, that's all fascinating and I'm sure everyone will appreciate knowing that. So just for a tidbit of information, are we walking over the mycelium every step we take? Is that how abundant it is? I would say so, absolutely. It is so prevalent and so abundant. It's ubiquitous in nature. So yeah, every step you take, just about. Yeah, that's crazy. Obviously, there's areas where fungi aren't as prevalent, but I guess you could say that it's not always directly right there underneath you, but on a grand scale, yeah, we could say it. Yeah, I was doing a little bit of research myself on just how resilient they are and I found out that they're living in the cooling water of Chernobyl. Is that true? Can you confirm that? Yeah, there's fungus growing on the walls of Chernobyl, actually, utilizing radioactive material as a food source. So it's not so much remediating, but it is thriving off of radioactive material, which is really fascinating. Yeah, I mean, that's so crazy. I mean, I'm sure I could go on and talk about this all day with you, but I want to get into some of your ventures and some of your projects. So you have a project called Fungi Freights, which is using repurposed shipping containers to help educate the community of Detroit about fungi. So can you explain a little bit about what exactly you're doing? Of course. Yeah, I'd love to talk about Fungi Freights. This is just a thought that came to me one day and it came to fruition, which I'm really stoked about. So this is a community restoration project. We were able to acquire seven vacant lots from the Detroit Land Bank. This was through a land-based project proposal. So now this area serves as a community green space. We teach our neighbors in the community about mycology, biodiversity, soil health. We're firm believers in natural restoration. Detroit itself is a great example of how natural restoration can occur, especially within an inner city, like the concrete jungle. You really get to see, because of all the vacancy within Detroit, unfortunately, there is a silver lining that nature does prevail and it's able to come back. And you can see all these little pockets of where this occurs and the biodiversity goes up, the soil health goes up. It's really cool. So yeah, we have our first shipping container there on the property. And this container serves as a learning center, a mushroom grow operation. People in the community can see firsthand how a mushroom farm operates. Our future endeavor is to equip these freight containers with the necessities to grow mushrooms for food security and economic growth and place them in different marginalized communities. So we have some places that we're discussing right now. So yeah, we hope to just, you know, pop up everywhere. Yeah, I mean, that's amazing work. And as a member of the Metro Detroit and community member, how can someone like me or in the area help get involved and kind of make your dream come true? Oh, I appreciate that question. Thank you so much. You know, it takes a village. It's really, really important to have the community by your side and volunteers and people that believe in the project. So yeah, we're always open to help and just curious people. So I guess the best way is to check out our website, www.fungiefreights.com. You can email me through there. I do have a workshop set up for this year. And yeah, I guess just coming out and seeing what we're all about. Yeah, awesome. I'll make sure to tell everyone, make hopefully people listen and link everything for you so that we can get some involvement. And then I have just like a fun question to end it. Do you have a favorite species of fungi or mushroom or yeah? Oh, I get this question like all the time. And I can never answer it because I obviously I love all fungi. There's just so many cool ones. But I will throw out, let's see, I'll throw out like a really cool one that I find to be really awesome. It's actually the world's fastest creature. So that's a plus. It's Pelobus crystallinus. And this is a manure dwelling fungus. It's a pretty small fungus. You'll have to look it up just so you can see how this actually occurs. So this, the spores are ingested usually by like plant eaters. And then it goes through that digestive tract. It actually needs that root to germinate. So it's a manure dwelling fungus. So eventually when it does myceliae and then grow, it produces these little like liquid filled sacs. And this actually acts as like a tiny cannon and its spores are ejected and accelerate at like 20,000 Gs. So it's pretty wild. I think you can look up a video of it like slowed down. But it's just like these tiny little sacs that like sporulate at 20,000 Gs. So that's a pretty wild mushroom I like to talk about. Yeah, that's crazy. And then lastly, like what else does the world need to know about like fungi? Good question. A lot. So which leaves me to say that there is so much yet to discover. And I think that's a really fun thing to share with people because there's so much opportunity. You know, in a world where like we have like knowledge at our fingertips, literally like, you know, just Googling everything right there on your phone or whatever. There's just so much to discover still in the world of fungi. And it's so interesting. It's so cool. It allows you to just really explore and discover something new. So yeah, I'd like to just say that, that there's, you know, we've only scratched the surface. There's so much to explore and it's a great opportunity for anyone to get involved and yeah, teach us something. Yeah, well, thank you so much. I had such a fun time talking to you. I hope everyone enjoys and just thank you for coming on. Of course. Thank you for having me. Yeah, of course. To continue learning about fungi and Tessa's journey with fungi freights, or if you're even in the area to volunteer, check out her website at fungiferaits.net, her Instagram at fungiferaits, and also her book, The Very Merry Mushroom. So yeah, there you have it. Fungi are extremely important from the trees and plants you see all around you to your toast in the morning, or even a beer with dinner. You can thank fungi for that.
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