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Fostering growth: The transformative influence of mentorship and collaboration on small businesses
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Lauren and Sri discuss their backgrounds in the construction industry and the importance of networking and mentorship. They highlight the challenges faced by small businesses, such as signing exclusivity agreements, and the need for clients to support and value their services. They also emphasize the benefits of collaboration and learning from each other. Hi, and good morning, Sri. Thank you for taking the time to do this podcast. So, I wanted to start off... Yeah, good afternoon. I guess the civic standard time is my morning. Well, I wanted to start off and give a little bit of history about my background and how I got into the industry. So, I majored in civil engineering at Bradley University, and I took my first job with Lendlease out of Chicago. And they have the reputation of letting kids build high-rises, which is what they let me do. They basically trained me a lot, gave me a manual, and said, here, go run this. And they stuck me with a bunch of seasoned people that kept me from getting into too much trouble. And during the 2008 recession, I moved to Los Angeles to work on the Tom Bradley International Terminal. And while I was there, I was working for Walsh Construction. I had a great experience working for Walsh Construction. I noticed that there was a market, specifically in aviation, to sort of repeat over and over and over again how to get all these organizations, whether they're airlines, concessions, contractors, give them the recipe for success in aviation. Because a lot of these companies, I noticed, were very successful operating on the street, per se, but they would struggle with the red tape in aviation. So I decided, based on the support, too, of the state of California being friendly to notifying and recognizing women-owned businesses, that I thought there might be something there, that there could be some set-aside work, that we could actually provide a scalable business. And so 10 years later, here we are. And I guess Sri and I met, just to touch on that before he gets going. So we've been trying, I've been trying to make a better effort networking. We're trying to grow, and we are growing. And so we met a couple years ago at the ACC conference in Napa. And that'll be a memorable point in time. Yeah. Do you remember the bomb cyclone that came? I do, yeah. Yep. Water just up to our knees in the conference sessions. Yeah. And we were at this beautiful, sprawling, all-outdoor Silverado Resort, and the rain was flying horizontally. It's called a bomb cyclone. And they only had, like, six umbrellas. You remember that? You could borrow an umbrella from the front desk, but there were only, like, six of them. Yeah. Yes, I do. So I guess – go ahead, Sri. I've talked enough about myself. I'm already getting bored. Well, I'm surprised you just casually dropped it in there and didn't make a big deal about it. But congratulations, this year being your 10-year anniversary, is kind of a big deal. I think the listeners are all applauding along with me. To introduce myself, I'm Sri. I'm with Connico. I got my start – oh, my God, a lifetime ago. Twelve years now? Twelve years ago, graduated from Michigan State University, civil engineering. I knew I wanted to go into something a little different, so I went to a concentration in construction management. What that led to was me being kind of – excuse me – contacted by Connico. They said, hey, would you like to come work for us? I said, I've never heard of you. No thanks. Click. They called me back, thankfully, and I got my feet wet on some projects at the Detroit airport. Spent the next decade running around doing on-site construction management type stuff on airfields. And in that same way, really got the opportunity, just like you, Lauren, to learn from other people. You know, it wasn't just learning inside my company. I got to see all kinds of different people from different companies run construction projects. I got to see good ways to do it. I got to see not-so-good ways to do it. But it was awesome to be stuck around, like you said, with all those seasoned folks and see how the ropes work. I also did get to learn a lot from people inside my company. And when the time came, the owner and founder, Connie, trusted me to keep the company running in her stead. So we're approaching our 34th year in business now and just running right along with the industry as it grows and changes. So I think we'll talk about a couple of those things, too, today. You know, one of the funny things is I was like, what conference was it that we met at? And, you know, I'm heavily involved in ACC, and involvement in that organization and organizations like it is so important, especially to find mentors that are outside your company. And I think, you know, often companies make a big deal of an internal mentorship program. But when you look outside your company, there are opportunities for learning, especially because that's a third-party perspective. You know, you're getting somebody who's not influenced by the culture at your company. Maybe they're not part of the politics, and you can ask them some sensitive questions. You can ask them about advancement. So, you know, I think one thing that you and I are doing, Lauren, is we're not trying to reinvent the wheel. You know, if you've got something that you want to find out or I have a question about how does business run or what is the strategy we're using to tackle something, we'll talk about that, right? Rather than us trying to figure it out on our own and just using the resources inside our company, we're partnering. I think, too, you know, when we sat down and we kind of operate in similar spheres, right? I could have said, oh, WMG, that's a competitor for us. Just take the business card and put it in the trash when I get home. Although I've had a lot of people do that to me over the years, we have the opportunity to really establish a connection, get on some calls, learn from each other, and see each other as partners. You know, even though we're playing in the same sandbox, we don't view each other as competitors when it comes to learning, when it comes to a business environment. Right. I mean, I remember some of our first conversations. So we set up, we were meeting about every other month. We had a standing meeting. We need to get that back on. We did that for a year. But I remember one of our first conversations that I found so much value. So there was a couple things that I was struggling with, and I felt like I did not have anyone else to talk to about it with. So there was a large pursuit coming out at the airport, and there was 11 general contractors going after it. And a couple of the general contractors decided to pursue it early, and they asked us to sign an exclusivity agreement. And we did. And I regretted it so much because after we signed the exclusivity agreement, the bid terms changed, and I decided that I wasn't going to back out on the contractor. But what happened was a bunch of other contractors came forward and wanted to partner, and we lost out on that opportunity as a small business. The team that we were with was not successful. Now, in the end, we did end up getting a contract, but instead of just running 100 meters, we had to basically run a marathon with lots of shins to get it. So I remember, Sri, we were talking about how sort of just getting support from each other that, I mean, my opinion is that us as small businesses should not be signing exclusivity agreements. Yeah. Yeah, and I – you feel all these pressure, or I do, okay? I felt pressure. This is – they want us. We're special to them. Their team is special. But at the end of the day, with a company like ours, where we're providing support services and we don't have the primary profile on the resume, when we have a one-in-11 shot and even our team is not the deciding factor, it really hurts us. So I felt supported by you. We aren't signing those agreements anymore. Yeah, and I think it's incumbent on both our clients, you know, any client who really values your firm or our firm or any DBE and really values the services they provide and really wants to see them succeed, would not ask them to sign an exclusivity commitment. And there are times where we do it, you know, if we really do have a long relationship with somebody or if it's a very specific niche pursuit, we will sometimes make those commitments. But it's also incumbent on owners because what we're seeing is sometimes the owners will come out and say, hey, even subs on this project, you know, we're going to release three RFQs. You're required to only participate in one. You can't participate in multiple. Same thing, and we see this in states from the East Coast to the West Coast and have even over the past year, later they'll come out and say, wait a minute, wait a minute. We've gotten too many questions. What we really mean is if you're a sub, you can be on multiple teams. What that does is especially subs that have niches like you have or like we have, the people are able to get those people on their team. They're able to fill that gap. And if a sub is only on one team out of 11, who on the other 11 is going to do the work? Yeah. Well, I just appreciated that you were willing, like you said, we were willing to talk to each other because there are a lot of companies that see that we have construction management services and that's what they do. Because I did try with a couple other small businesses to have the same dialogue because I thought, well, this is wonderful, we can do it. We had one meeting and it was extremely awkward and they didn't want to set up more. I don't know if I made it awkward, but I certainly felt that they felt it was awkward. And we were just at a CMA golf outing. We were a TVOX sponsor. And we've got this big banner that says construction management professionals, EBE, WBE, everything. And my joke was we got a lot of handicaps, but golf isn't one of them. So people would say, like, what do you mean? I was trying to imply that, you know, I can hang, but I don't have a golf handicap, like what the scoring would be. But anyway, there was a large firm that was like, we aren't going to talk to you. We do the same thing. And I said, wait a minute, how many employees do you have? They're like 3,000. I said, we are a perfect sub for you. We will never be able to compete with you. And the guy looked at me, and you could see the wheels turning. And so then finally he gave his business card. Now I've followed up, he hasn't called me back. So maybe he meant what he said at first blush. But I thought, how do we change the mindset, you guys? I mean, you need us, we need you. We provide niche. Connico provides niche services. And we share in the same arena. I mean, another one of the conversations we had, Cherie, and I'm curious to also revisit your perspective on this, is it is no question right now everybody is so concerned about resources, the volume of work, and there is insufficient resources. You know, what I was even thinking about when I mentioned, if you're on one team, who are the other teams going to use? You know, if there are 10 other teams, who are they going to have that's going to do this kind of niche work? And just like you're saying, we're hearing even the companies that do have 3,000 people don't have enough people to fill all the seats. And so how could they possibly go to another firm and say, no, thank you, we don't need any support? Those are two absolutely antithetical messages. Well, I'm watching for the first time Ted Lasso, and there is this part about be curious. Do you know, if you haven't watched Ted Lasso, there's a situation where he's throwing the darts in the bar with his boss's ex-husband. Awkward situation. Just like us meeting with small businesses, right? And it's a little bit awkward. And the whole message was he starts shooting the dart with his right hand and he's failing. So then there's this wager about, well, if I win, you don't get to go to any more of my boss's games and sit in the box because they're estranged in the marriage. And his message was, you need to be curious. He's left-handed, Ted Lasso is left-handed and he grew up shooting darts every day of the week and he just crushes the ex-husband. So I think the message is you and I were curious. I mean, we've been curious. And the other people are not curious. And you're just sort of cutting yourself off from an opportunity to be successful by not being curious. I like that analogy. I've had evenings like that myself, but I'm not left-handed. And I did not grow up playing darts. So the story doesn't have as many happy endings in my case. But there is the idea that a lot of these firms that we talk to, sometimes they don't even explore what we can offer. You know, they say, well, we've got the cost estimation, you know, they say, well, we've got the cost estimating side covered. We have like 13 other services that maybe you need help with. In addition to rounding out your team, using our resume and our past project experience, most likely at that airport, using our team's resume and their long history of work specifically in aviation, you know, when we talk about niche, we don't just mean, you know, we're a little firm that does construction management or cost estimating or scheduling. It's the fact that we also specialize in the disciplines that we work in. And so without sitting down and having that conversation, finding out what services we offer, a lot of times they're missing out on an opportunity to round out their team. Right. I think, too, there's, well, it's just like a human element to this, right? It's very important that, you know, people kind of joke that aviation is a small world, small community. You never know when you're going to be talking with somebody and, you know, you say, hey, thanks, I'll call you. And you never call them back. And then later you find out the person who you never call back is the new CEO at one of the airports you want to work at. And now you've got to go have a conversation with this individual in order to build a book of work there. With aviation being a small world and small community, it's kind of like you never know who your next boss is going to be. And so why not be nice to everyone? Why not at least give those follow-ups? And if you have the conversation, you have that curiosity, and it turns out that you lose the bet, right? Maybe you're on a team and it doesn't work out. Maybe you discover your company's values or histories or objectives don't align. But at the very least, you pursued the opportunity. Right. I think also just to sort of close our resourcing challenges, we've had a lot of conversations about being small businesses and the concern that we're going to lose our valuable team members to other firms. And I sort of just wanted to talk about how we've both agreed that small businesses can provide a much more well-rounded experience than larger firms. I mean, you guys, when I started this podcast, I said I worked for Walsh Construction and I worked for LendLease. I mean, these are the billion-dollar revenue annually construction company. They are huge. They had a process for everything, and you sort of just got slotted into doing that same process over and over again. I started at LendLease with a peer. She went to work on Trump Tower because it was the glitzy glam right on Wacker Drive. And she was managing doors, frames, and hardware for four years. Well, four years later, I had done four projects and I was a project manager. And so the point of my story is the projects were so much smaller, but with a small business, you can get a well-rounded exposure. You don't get slotted into one facet, and that's what we really offer. And we hope that our employees aren't seeking bigger is better necessarily. What do you think, Sri? Well, it's funny you bring that up. You know, when I was coming up in the ranks, a lot of companies asked my bosses, Dave and Connie, they said, aren't you afraid you're going to lose him by sending him to these conferences and he's moderating panels? Don't you think somebody's going to steal him? And they were like, we run a bigger chance of losing him if we don't give him these opportunities. And at many large firms, you know, there's a wait list for who goes to conferences, and you've got to be at a certain level before you can speak. And, you know, at a small firm, you really get to prove yourself for what you're worth, which is cool. Well, yeah, you just got an award, 40, under 40, aviation. ENR, yeah, yep. Yeah. For the Midwest region. For the Midwest region. And to your point, I think if you would have been at a much larger firm, you wouldn't have been able to get that exposure. I mean, congratulations on that award. That's a huge, huge award for someone so young. But, yeah, I think Connico giving you those opportunities, like you're a walking example of what small businesses can do. Yeah, that was critical for us, and thank you. You know, we kind of, in the interview process, we believe that it's not just assessing is the candidate a right fit for the company. We ask the candidate to assess if our company is the right fit for them. And in that, one of the things that I tell them, you know, some people in their work, they want to be able to do stuff outside of work. You know, there might be certain things they're looking for in a workplace. Somebody, you know, they might want to have an after work softball league, right? Our whole company is not big enough to make a softball league. And so there are some things that big companies can offer that we cannot. On the flip side of that, though, there are many things that we can offer as a small company that big companies cannot. We don't have that red tape. We have these opportunities. We'll get you training. We'll get you learning. We'll get you classes, certifications, webinars, conference experience, industry exposure. Small companies can do that. And I think this ties, frankly, into a bigger point, which is that so many times people say the word small business and already they're thinking lesser. Small, you know, even just in our language often means less. And then, too, I was going to apologize, but I'm not going to apologize because this is just a small soapbox. But the federal program calls small businesses disadvantaged. It's in the name of the program. And to even imagine that to have a business run by someone who's female or a minority or a veteran as a disadvantage is absolutely insane. It's almost what we found is getting these diverse perspectives, bringing new ideas to the table, getting different voices in the room is actually an advantage. And, you know, it's almost like it's almost a differentiator business enterprise, you know, as a DD. It's not a disadvantage. And so small, we think of it as lesser, but small doesn't mean disadvantaged. And I'm sure you guys experience that same thing. Well, yeah. I guess it's difficult every time I have to say that we're a disadvantaged business. As a selling point, I hate saying it. I try to come up with cute words and tease it a little bit. But, yeah, I don't like it. I don't think – I think that if we thought about it as a disadvantage, all that means is that initially it's been harder for us to succeed. That's why we got classified, because we're small, we're minority, and you don't normally see that. And so those are the people that I would want on my team. Like those are the people that passed up way more adversity and survived it. I would trust in them a lot. Yeah. Those are the people who have just been hacking away at it for 10 years, relentlessly, right? Yeah. And I know originally when we met, we met right after – I think it was 2021, right after the start of COVID and things were changing. So we basically went to the situation where people were working remote, and then there was a mass exodus. There was a great resignation. And so now when I'm on the weekends and I'm talking to friends in other industries, they're all being asked to go back into the office five days a week, and they are panicking. And they now have come full circle, and they're saying, we don't know what we're going to do because we've adjusted to this life. And I remember Bradley, the FAA director, he's like, you guys, we need to retain talent. We need to start at the elementary school. There's not going to be enough people. So we're moving offices. We're moving into a bigger office, a nicer office. We're excited. But what we're doing is something really interesting, and I'm curious on how it's going to work. So we're asking people to come to the office three days a week, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And we're offering a flex schedule, which means we all need to be in the office from 10 to 3 p.m. But I don't care. We don't care if you start early and leave at 3. We don't care if you start at 10 and leave at 3. And we just sent out the memorandum. I was concerned we'd get a lot of pushback from employees that have had a full-time assignment, but we're actually not. And so I'm hoping that we're at an elevated position compared to our other jobs people might be seeking, because all of our friends and all of our peers are back in the office five days a week. Yeah. We do that same Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, anchor day type thing. We've never had prescriptive hours anyway, and we're working right now on kind of looking at that same idea. Should we set collaboration hours so that people can set aside other time for work or for personal stuff? So I'm very interested to hear how that goes. I think this is one of the cool areas where generally businesses would not share this strategy with each other, especially if they're competitors. And we touched on this early on in the episode, but the ability for me to learn from you or you to ask me questions, there's almost an inter-firm mentorship there. I mentioned the importance of going outside your firm to learn, get new ideas and things like that. And it's really cool that at our level with where we are in the industry and our beliefs and our philosophies, we can put competition aside and say, okay, we're going to learn from each other. We're going to see what challenges they have and how they solve their problems. We're going to see what ideas we can implement. Maybe we try something and it doesn't work, and you guys learn a lesson along the way. So there are so many advantages to that mentorship relationship. Well, I did have another example of a large firm that's followed me personally throughout my whole career. It's owned by Ann Cotter, Cotter Consulting in Chicago. They're a 100-person firm. And they had asked us to be a sub on some projects. Her and I met on the Bradley University Advisory Board, and she has always just been so positive, introducing me to new contacts, new items. And fast forward after we've been in business 10 years, for the first time ever, I'm proud to report that we are going in on a small prime and her firm is going to subcontract to us. So the situation is reversed, and she's just always given us a chance and followed me and always been there for me. And I know that that was a very mature and professional step. I probably met her 20 years ago. That's a huge deal for you all. Yeah, I think so. I mean, she just was not afraid. I don't recall what her business was 20 years ago when we met, but she could have just said, this is another potential DBE in my DBE umbrella, and she did it. So that's our example of a large firm. And then there's another small firm that we get some of the same collaboration with, and I'd like to continue this. I mean, I think, like you said, like you started the conversation was everyone thinks it's within the companies, but we don't have a small business owners. We don't have an opportunity for evaluation and metrics if we don't go outside of our organization to really get a truth check. Because it's difficult inside of an organization to not just think, well, of course we think we're doing the right things. We're not collectively sitting at our desks every day and trying to say, we're not going to do our best today. That's not what's happening. We just don't have any metrics. If Sri weren't willing to share what Connico is doing, how would we know how we can be better? How would we know? Well, I think a lot of times there's this ethos that it's up to these big firms to support DBEs. The big firms got to put DBEs on their team. The big firms got to hand out work. But DBEs need to support DBEs. Small businesses need to support small businesses. We're in this together, and I think the situation you're describing and the relationship that our firms have developed is an awesome indication of how small firms can help each other out. You know, just because we're competitors doesn't mean we can't be partners as well. So, you know, I'm really excited to see where we take things from here, and I'm excited to get our monthly or bi-monthly meetups back on the calendar as well. Same, because if you recall, I've got a great employee and she wants to relocate to your neck of the woods, and I would like you to consider hiring her. I would love for her to go work for you guys towards the end of the year. And she wants to relocate. I know, I know. So we appreciate it. We appreciate all the things that small businesses do to help each other out. I appreciate all the mentorship and guidance you've given me over the years. And now that I remember that we met in Napa during that cyclone, I'm always going to be thinking about that. I know. And I appreciate you as well. And I appreciate you taking the time. And hopefully this would encourage other firms to just be curious. In a safe environment, just be curious how we can all improve. All right. Well, I think that brings us to our conclusion.
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