Senior Side Of The Street 3nov2024

Senior Line is a free national telephone service in Ireland for older people who want someone to talk to. They can call and chat with another older person who is part of the team. The service is open daily from 10 am to 10 pm. The program is sponsored by Forum Panamera. The transcript then goes on to talk about a radio program where John Staunton interviews Pat Lavery from Bunown. Pat talks about his childhood growing up in Bunown, going to school in Albrach and Clifton, and his love for sports. He also talks about his memories of national school, religion in Ireland, and his move to the United States. Would you like someone to talk to? Senior Line is Ireland's free national telephone service for older people. So if you feel like company today, phone us and talk to another older person who's part of our team. Free phone, 1800 80 45 91. That's 1800 80 45 91. Senior Line is open daily from 10 till 10 and we'd love to hear from you. This program is sponsored by Forum Panamera 09541116. www.forumpanamera.com Hello, good evening and you're very welcome to our Sunday evening programs here on Panamera Community Radio. We'll meet you this evening right through up until nine o'clock p.m. and I hope you can stay tuned with us for all of our programs. For this hour we have a lovely recording for you this evening and it's a program where John Staunton was in studio to have a chat with Pat Lavery from Bunown. In studio I have the pleasure of interviewing and talking casually to Pat Lavery, a native of, correct me if I'm wrong there Pat, back in Bunown I think? Bunown, yes. And I think our listeners on the radio here, we would know his brother Michael Lavery, who's a very good ballad singer, traditional singer and so Pat is home on holidays, Pat, are you? Yes. Do you come home often? I try to make it every year. Oh good man. Yeah. And is that for many years? For 40 years, anyway, 45. Yeah. So take me back, Pat, to your childhood growing up in the home in Bunown. Yes, I was born in Bunown and lived there until I was 16 when I immigrated to America. Went to school in Albrach, played sports at the national school level in Albrach and then I went to secondary school in Clifton for two years before I immigrated and I played sports for the secondary school also. Okay, so you were a sporty guy, your sport was big in your life. Yes, sport was. I'd like to go back now again to your childhood, to your national school. What can the numbers have been in Albrach school at that time, would you reckon? There probably was the whole school from infants all the way to eighth grade, there was probably maybe 25 kids. And two teachers? Two teachers, yes, right. We had a two-room school, one teacher in each room. And it was quite common in the day for maybe the boys, maybe the girls too, a lot of the boys anyway stopped after the primary set. I noticed there how you mentioned the eighth grade, like that was kind of sixth class, but people that were going to finish their education at national school level often were at school until about 14 and they did the primary set. Right, that was true. That was true. There wasn't many of the kids that I grew up with that went to secondary school after the national school. And have you happy memories of your national school? Was corporate punishment severe? Did you just take it? Corporate punishment was prevalent, that's for sure, but I still have happy memories of both the national school and secondary school. Lovely, yes. But that was about nine miles, was it, from Clifton? It's probably about maybe six or seven. Six or seven. Yes. But still a long way for a 14-year-old to go. How did you get to school in Clifton? I rode my bike. On a bus? Yes. Bad weather, good weather, all weather? Well, sometimes I would get a lift on bad weather from John King from Dunloughan who worked in the Dole office at that time and he would give me a ride on very bad weather. Okay. And did you like your time in secondary in Clifton? Oh, I enjoyed it a great deal, yes. At the time, Latin was big, was it? Latin was a requirement and in secondary school you had to be able to pass Latin to, I think we called it the mid-term test or something, but you had to pass Latin to proceed on to the next grade. Yes. And the triage, they called them big, the maths and the Irish. Yes, as a matter of fact, they had geography that was very good and they covered all maths and religion, of course. Oh, yes. And religion would be a big subject in national school too at the time. Yes, it was, right. And the priest would come to the national school maybe once a month or once every other month just to make sure that the kids were staying up to speed with their religion. And have you memories, going back to national school again, have you memories of making your First Holy Communion and Confirmation? I have surely memories of making my Confirmation, which was in Clifton. Confirmation at that time was not at the local Balconese church, it was in Clifton. So, I've got memories of that. I don't have great, my memory probably isn't that good to go back all the way for First Communion. Yes, but it was a really Catholic Ireland. Religion was very big and life was hard, but kind of simple, but religion was... Yes, I think religion, our faith, was in every aspect of society at that time because if you were working in a field, if somebody came to visit you, they would always say, God bless the work. When they came in, if you were doing work outside, especially if you were doing any type of, you know, growing vegetables or potatoes or whatever. Yes, yes, even in the indicators they say about a year and over, like that was part and parcel of Irish life. Right, well, where growing up in Benown or in that area that we called Northern Connemara, English surely was the, you know, the language that was spoken. There was very little Irish spoken in our area. And were you born on a small farm or were you fishermen people? Born on a small farm. There was nobody really in our family that was fishermen. We had lots of neighbours who were good fishermen, you know. And were you fairly self-sufficient in potatoes and vegetables? Yes, we were. That was one of the good things. And of course, people at that time shared products. If somebody had an abundance of one type of food supply, they would share it with other neighbours. You know, we had super good neighbours. We had on one side, we had Michael King and on the other side we had the Conroys, Michael Conroy and Anna-Marie Conroy. They were like excellent neighbours of ours in Benown. That was an island of big families. Yes, it was, correct. Very few families had less than, say, four or five kids. And have you any memories of killing a pig, raising a pig and killing a pig? Have you any memories of that? No. We never raised any animals to slaughter. The only thing that we would have that I can remember is, you know, a turkey, that we would kill a turkey or something at Christmas time for Christmas. And you would rear the turkey yourself? Yes. That's interesting. And a goose? We would kill a goose too for different times of the year. And Christmas was big because of the time to be able to just have better food and better drinks. Yes. Everybody would dress up their house for Christmas. Homes were decorated and even like the walkways coming to the houses or something would be redone. And holly with berries. Yes, that was a big part of Christmas. But in Clifton School then, you didn't find it too much of a transition from National School, did you? Had you many of your school friends that you have in your class? Did many of them go to secondary? Nobody from my class at the National School went to secondary school. I had a friend of mine who still, I believe, he lives in Dublin. I think Tommy King from Balacaneli. We were the only two from that area that went to secondary school. Yes. I think that would be a private thing too. I can understand the comment at the time. I know out here too very few boys especially went down to secondary. You mentioned earlier you had a great interest in sport. Was there sport in the school in Clifton, Douglas? Yes, we had the under-16 team in Clifton that we played against other... Gaelic football, right? Yes, Gaelic football, right. But in the National School it was big too because we played for a cup. They called it the Father Michael Cup. I don't think it's played any longer but it was Albrecht, Balacaneli, Calla and... Arslan. Arslan, yes. We played for that cup and we won the cup a few times too. Balacaneli had a good team also. And great local rivalry. Great football but great local rivalry I'd imagine. Absolutely, yes. Great rivalry, yes. Like today, secondary school in Clifton and back in the 1970s it was synonymous with rugby but it was Gaelic football in your time. There was no rugby. As a matter of fact I think at that time if you played soccer or rugby you would be barred from playing Gaelic football at some level. Yes, yes. So you completed two years in Clifton, secondary? Right, yes. And then was this a momentous move to go to the United States? What time, was it in the summer you went to? I went in May. May of 1963. And it was a major move but you know like school other than the fact that different classes that you could take you know teaching methods, they weren't that much different although you didn't have any corporal punishment in America. Yes. Now did you sense yourself, was there planning, did you hear your parents talking about this move? Did you hear this ongoing, was it worrying to you at the time or were you concerned about it or did it all happen kind of very fast? Well I wasn't really, looking back I don't think I was really that worried because I had my mother and some of my brothers living in America that I was going to. Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah. And he's... Right, right. And you went, how did you get to the States? I went by plane. As a matter of fact I can remember it was a Pan Am Boeing 707. Flew out of Shannon. And were you very excited about the plane journey itself or were you just fearful of it? I don't think I even thought about it very much because I don't think I had ever seen a plane up close until then. Yes, I know. Yeah. So then in the States you're too young to go work and you continue your education at second level. Right. I went to secondary school in America for two years. So in the States you just continued on, that was in September that you would have... The school would start in September, yeah. I got there in May, so in September the new school year would start. Do you have any memories of that first time in that school? Was there many Irish? Did you get in fairly easily? Yeah, I did. There was two students who came from Ireland and myself. Okay. But there was a lot of Irish American, you know, children of people who did come from Ireland who attended school. Maybe you were a bit of a hero in that people were, this was the real Mackay over from Ireland, you might be a bit of a star in the school. I never felt like a star. But there was surely the only thing that some of the teachers would ask you, they'd say, what part of Ireland did you come from? Because they knew by my accent probably that I was Irish. Yeah. But it was a pleasant experience going to school in the US. Lovely. And again, sport was big for you there. Sport was, yes, continued. Obviously, we didn't play Irish football, but I kicked extra points for the football team. Okay. Now, Pat, I should have asked you earlier, where did you go to in the States? Was it Boston, New York? No, actually, I went to a town in New Jersey, Morristown, New Jersey, which is about 14 or 15 miles away from New York City. And that's where I went to school, Morristown High, graduated from Morristown High School. Okay. And was that a nice district? Very nice. Yeah. Very nice. And it was a super area for people getting employment. And the Irish were looked at in very favorable terms in that area, like they were, I think, in most parts of the US. Yeah. And was the work mainly construction, was it? No. There was a lot of factories that built, even at that time, built high-tech equipment. And there was some construction work, but I would say that the majority of the Irish, they were either policemen, firemen, worked in fairly high-tech factories, and some worked in construction, but it wasn't a major part of their work. Okay. And the climate, was it much, was the summer very warm? Oh, God, yes. I used to caddy on the golf course, and it was tough. I remember, you know, like perspiring profusely, you know, walking with two golf bags on your shoulders. It was, but then again, it was offset by being able to make decent money, because at that time, you would get $10 for each bag for 18 holes, so that was a lot of money at that time. A lot of money, yeah. And the winters, were they very severe? Winters, we had snow almost every year, but they weren't bitterly cold, but we had snow just about every year. And I suppose that part of, they were set up for the snow, like a three-day snow here brings the country to a standstill, but they were set up for it. To some degree, yes, but not like it is today, but they were pretty well prepared. Would there ever be schools closed because of the snow? I can't ever remember schools being closed. So you finished then in that school, and you have nice happy memories of it, and you think the sport was a big factor there, but there was no corporate punishment, and so where did life take you then? When I got out of high school, I worked for some period of time, and I got a notice in the mail that the Army wanted to draft me into the Army because the Vietnam War was going on at that time, full blast. So I had a friend from high school that said that his uncle had been in the Air Force, and he asked me if I would want to go talk to the Air Force recruiter. So we did, and lo and behold, we signed up to go into the Air Force rather than go in the Army. So you were excused from going in the Army if you went into some other branch of the Armed Forces. And looking back now, that was a good move for you. It was a very good move, yeah. They gave us the opportunity to finish your education. You could go on to take college courses when you were in the Air Force, and I thought it was a very good opportunity, and of course then when we got out, we had the GI Bill to pay for college if you went back to school when you got out of the service, which I did. Which you did? Yeah. And did you have to go out to Vietnam on missions? No, the whole time I was in the Air Force, it was all stateside, the U.S. Okay. Yeah. And did you find that life interesting or challenging? You know, I enjoyed being in the Air Force too, but the biggest drawback was you were away from all your friends and your family members, you know, where I lived in New Jersey before I went in. Where were you based now? Were you far away? I was based about 2,000 miles away from the East Coast. One of the bases that I was at for the longest period of time was in South Dakota, in the U.S., the state of South Dakota. And ironically, that's where I met my wife that I'm still married to after all those years. Oh, good. And was that during these years that you met up? Yes, it was while I was in the Air Force and I met up with my wife, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But you also got a chance in that work, you must have got technical expertise and good engineering training. Right. I did. And after I finished school, when I got out, I went to work. I first worked for a pharmaceutical company, Siebel Geige as a pharmaceutical inspector, and I did that for a couple of years. And then I had a friend that worked in a Navy laboratory in Newport, Rhode Island, and we moved to Rhode Island and I went to work for the Navy there. I think I worked almost 42 years for the Navy in Newport. Oh, lovely. And your good wife had no problem leaving Dakota? No, she did not. Well, she lived in New Jersey with me for a short period of time, so moving to Newport, Rhode Island, was kind of, you know, was less traffic and less city in Rhode Island. And all those years you kept in good contact with Pelicanelium and Benalumon? Every, I don't think I ever missed an all-Island football final or Hurling final, at least on the radio at that time, but I came back to a lot of Hurling finals since I emigrated. Regardless of the goal we were playing or not. Correct, right, yeah. And would you make that as a holiday in a few weeks at home? Yeah, right. I would blend that into maybe two or three weeks back here. And over them, I suppose you were coming so often that maybe it was a gradual change. You must have seen, were you conscious of how your own Benalumon, Pelicanelium, Connemara Island was changing? Yes. Some years there'd be more changes, some decades there'd be more changes. Yeah, I think the biggest thing I've seen changes was we have more cars than bicycles now. And we have excellent housing. And of course you've got all of the housing now have indoor plumbing and you've got electricity. So that's a big, big improvement. And you've got better schooling and better access to schooling, I think. And of course also better medical care because I remember when I was just a young kid we had one dentist in Clifton, Milan that used to come on Saturday and if you had a toothache, they'd pull the tooth and hopefully you didn't get infected. Funnily enough, as a child I have memories of that dentist in Milan coming to our house. For us it was kind of a clinic for the neighbours. And there was a pull on teeth, you never heard of a tooth being filled? No. But I think it's good for younger listeners especially like, you know, young people think that there was always electricity, there was always lovely toilet bathrooms but neither of us are that ancient old. And you remember a Pelicanelium or Connemara Island when we had no electricity? Oh, absolutely. Electricity actually came to Benown and the surrounding areas in 1959. That's when electricity came there. And it wasn't even mandatory that everybody have electricity installed in their house. It was a voluntary thing. If you wanted to have electricity, you got it. And there was people that didn't sign up to get electricity. We had a terrible fight to get electricity because some of our neighbours didn't want it. And we didn't get electricity until the early 70s. It came into the village, it wasn't as highly populated. Yeah, but I think all the changes that I see in the surrounding area, and as a matter of fact in the whole country really, have all been positive. There are negative things, you know, that goes along too but they're fairly minor I think. Yes. So, the lovely houses now you see dotted, maybe too many some people would say, especially in coastal communities like Dalekenele and Benown. Right. I think the biggest thing is, that I hear people talk about is, you have a lot of holiday houses where there's nobody in the house except maybe a month during the summer time. Yes, that is a big problem. Vacant houses. And I've got some of my friends who grew up in the Dalekenele area said that even when they wanted to come back and build houses that a lot of times the administrative hoops that they had to go through sometimes was greater than, or it appeared it was greater than some of the people who moved in from other countries. Yeah, yeah, you hear that. Now, when you'd be home on the annual summer holidays or September holidays for the Highlands, would there often be other immigrants home from London that you grew up with in Dalekenele? Oh yes, there was, yeah. And sometimes you might meet people you hadn't seen for years maybe. That is correct, yes. Some of the people that I went to school with in Albrach or in the secondary school in Clifton I would meet up with, you know, when I came back. And it became less and less though through the years. Yeah. Today like our picture of Dalekenele is famous for it's called Mariponies Were there much ponies in Dalekenele in your youth? Oh yes, there was. As a matter of fact, our next door neighbour, Michael Conroy, he was the person in the village that had the stallion, the Connemara pony stallion. And he also had some nice Connemara mares. And just there was like an abundance of horses even in the 60s there. Some horses used for work and for gathering seaweed and some show animals. They would be the same horses as you would see in Clifton at the Connemara pony show. Oh interesting, yeah. Because now there are kind of show animals all the time. But these were working ponies. Yes, there was. And you still have the famous horse names and like the McNamara's, the Kings and all these heads. That is right. Head ponies and this. Yes, and I think that tradition carried on for a lot of years. Yes, and have you experienced with horses? Did you like horses? We had a very nice mare. We had a nice black mare, Connemara pony. And even at my age, she was so quiet that you could use her for different things. There was such great interaction as well between the horse owner and the ponies. Yes, and the horses always got treated much better than the donkeys. Yes. You know, the poor donkeys, they never really got treated very well. But the horses always did. They got better. They always had respect. Yes, it's interesting you say that now because the donkey was a poor relation to the pony. Yes, that's right. And did you ever do any horse riding or jockey as a young lad or anything like that? I did one time at the Connemara races on the beach in Albrach. I rode a mare for Martin Lee from Dunloughan. And at that time, it wasn't unusual for the same horse to run multiple races. Okay. So I think we ran two races and he was thrilled because we came in second in a race and we came in third in a race. So it was like we didn't win any. And you weren't thrown off? No, no. So back in the city, you had kind of permanent work and you liked your work. You had a nice job. You enjoyed it. Correct, yes. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been there for those number of years. Yes, yes. And your sport, I'm going back to now again, like in the States, had you experienced in with the big Irish communities of New York and Connemara Gales or any of these, did you ever? Yes, I played football for Connemara Gales. Not steady all the time because I was in the Air Force and when I'd come back on leave, I would play in New York for the Gales. And we also had a local New Jersey team called the Elizabeth Gales that I'd play football for there if there was no games for Connemara Gales in New York at that time. And then, of course, the years caught up with me when Connemara Gales had excellent football in the 80s and I was probably a little bit over the hill for playing very competitive sports at that time. Yes, but you had no bother, I think you're a bit humble, you had no bother getting your place even though you'd only drift back from your work and you'd always get on the team. Right, right. What was your favourite position, were you? Oh, I'd play like in the half-forward line. Okay. Yes. Did you get to know the Salmon family up here in Wynneville, Jackie? Did you know Jackie Salmon? I knew Jackie well. As a matter of fact, the last time that I was back here, or no, not last time, before that, I went to see him when he lived in Wynneville. Mike Wallace also came from the Wynneville area. He was the manager of the Connemara Gales for a good lot of years. But of course, Jackie Salmon, we all know he was a very highly thought of man who became the chairperson for all of the GAA for the New York area. Yes, very good. And do you think that sport connection was a great help to young immigrants going over and a great link to home? Magnificently, right. Because you met up with people your own age category, both boys and girls. Yeah. And so it built a community of, you know, Irish culture within the larger culture of the state that you lived in. Yeah. And with that, then, you'd be in venues where there would be traditional music and sing-song and dances like at home. Yes. Yeah, we had the Bronx in New York was an extension, actually. I thought of always Connemara because there was so many pubs and music in that area there. And where we lived, actually, in New Jersey, in Morristown, New Jersey, we had a couple of nice Irish pubs. Then in Newark, New Jersey, we had a couple of dance halls and pubs. And of course, lots of Irish music in those areas also. Yeah. And that was a part of your life, like that was an interest to you, that keeping in touch with this link to Ireland was important to you, was it? It sure was. I don't think I'd ever given up my, you know, my Irish cultural faith. Yeah, yeah. That was, you know, it's common when you talk to immigrants, how important this link to home was and proud to be Irish and proud of what it entails. Yeah. Now, I've just done a little bit of research on you. Well, of course, I know your brother Michael well and I associate him with a fantastic, traditional, no-nonsense ballad singer, as I call him, and love to hear him singing. Don't hear him that much nowadays. But I believe, I think you might sing a song yourself, but more so, I believe you have been always doing a bit of writing. Yeah, that's true. Correct. I've written some poems and that has always kind of tickled my interest to write poems, primarily about where we grew up and the Connemara area. I know Patrick Cavanaugh wrote some of his best poems when he left the little farm in Monaghan and when he came to Dublin, when he was in Monaghan, he looked on the drudgery of the small farm, but now in Dublin, he looked back with a kind of romantic view of Monaghan and he wrote some of his best poems from Dublin. Were you now, you might feel the little farm at home kind of curtailing you a bit, but now looking back on it, would that kind of spur you to write about where you're a bit nostalgic in your writing about? Yeah, I think when you look back, you've seen what people worked at, what they valued, and sometimes the great skill levels they had, although we may not have looked at at that time, like the skill levels were very high, but like skill levels for boating or, you know, working the sea was very high skill levels. And the traditional things are those skill levels were handed down from one generation to another. I also look back and say that although the older people didn't have a lot of formal education, they were brilliant people. They had a lot of education they learned through hard knocks. So, those are the things really. Yeah, I'm glad you say that because I am always concerned that myself, like my own followers, the neighbours, they take such pride, and the opposite was also true if you messed it up, in cutting a bag of turf. How clean did you leave the bank? Right, right. Did you drain the bag? Yeah, to a computer expert today, who thinks there's no skill to this. But I see them cutting here with a scythe. Yes. Like, they would seem to take the hard work out of it with a knaft, like with, you know... Sharpening the scythe blade. Yeah, the sound of it. Is that the theme of your philosophical poems, do you think? I think I look back, like I wrote a poem about the fishermen, which is more contemporary, but I also wrote a poem just about Dune Hill, about how you could view the countryside when you were up on Dune Hill. And I also wrote a poem about the road to Roundstone, because lots of the old people were... I would overhear them talk about how it was haunted in different places, so I kind of took advantage of what I learned from those old folks, to put it into words. Would it be a nice time, if you feel comfortably about this, maybe recite one of your poems for us? I'll do that. So now, Father is getting ready and deciding which of his poems he's going to recite for us, it might be a good time to take a bit of music. What Fath has chosen for us is the local Balconesian men, the Connolly's, and you have an interesting bit of information and story to tell us about these great musicians. Michael Connolly and Paul, his brother, they both came from Paul Reeve County, Galway. They both immigrated to the U.S. in the 60's, and they lived in Watertown, Massachusetts. Both were very good musicians, good accordion players, both of them, and fortunately Mike had a terrible accident. He worked in a leather factory, and he through an accident had to have both hands amputated. That didn't slow him down though with his Irish traditional music. He became very proficient on a harmonica, and was able to hold that harmonica with his artificial hands. So with great sadness I say that Mike passed away about five or six years ago now, and his brother Paul played the accordion very well also. Paul is not in great health now, lives in Watertown, Mass, Massachusetts, but they will be sorely missed from the Irish dance halls and places where Irish music is played in the U.S. And such great resilience, and to come back from that is amazing. But we have the pleasure, I think, as John O'Malley has arraigned it, versus Indus Music, of listening to the Connollys now, back from Polar Reef up there, back to Indum Laham, and so you're in for a treat. I hope you enjoy it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . So now, that was beautiful music there from the Connollys, as Pat talked us about, and the terrible accident, and how they still kept going. So you have decided on one of your poems Pat, that you think you would like to say for us. Yes, I have. The poem is about Dunhill, the hill that's closest to our house in Benown, and I was reminiscent about growing up beside Dunhill, and the great views that you had from that mountain. So, it goes like this. We climbed Dunhill so long ago, on Sunday it was all the go, and our best clothes, and without a care, we viewed all round, such beauty rare. In springtime, fir bushes were in bloom, the ocean sounds sang out a tune, the hawks they circled up above, and lakes below, I'll always love. The view from there, I can't explain, surrounded by history and fame, Marconi station within view, and Alcock and Brown just to name a few. Now gazing out upon this land, Blake's castle there below me stand, and to the west, Slinehead I see, no other place I'd rather be. Lovely Pat, just touching. I can even visualise you writing this, and it's so much from your heart, and you could feel that emotion when you're reading it there. Would it take you long to write that now? No, I think any of the things that I've written, I don't think it's taken me long to write them. It's taken me a while to get going to do it. And to know what you have to say. So you might have decided, I'm going to write a poem about Dunhill. Yes. But it might take a while for it to take place. To formulate the idea as to because and the points that you want to make about, you know, that writing. So Pat, to get the poem then down and structured, I know we have a lot of listeners that are interested in writing poetry and short stories and things, but would you say then that you had this idea for your poem as something you must do, but is it that you get into the right frame of mind? That's really it, right. You have to be in the right frame of mind to be able to sit down and be able to formulate your thoughts and be able to do it in a way that kind of makes sense. And you have no real, I'll have you control over when this might happen. You just kind of know, I have a good, today is the day to get this down. Well, in my job I used to do a fair amount of traveling throughout the US and even outside the US, and some of the things that I've written was when I'm on board a plane, going somewhere, or coming home. And your writing was a great piece of mind. Oh yeah. I think it's satisfying when you can when it's complete, and obviously you do some edits after, you know, like you put your initial thoughts in. It's just lovely descriptive writing. It's very visual. You know, I can see down here when you're saying it, there's plenty of love in your presence. But it's lovely descriptive, lovely colourful, you know, simple and complicated altogether. It's just well crafted and well done there. So, Pat, we're going to get another, a second poem for you, and what poem have you chosen for us this time? By the way, listeners, I'm talking here, my name is John Stanton, and I'm talking to Pat Lavery, from Benang, back in Ballycanilia, and Pat is home from the States, and he's reading some of the poems he has written. So, you have a second poem now for us, Pat. Would you just introduce us and the thoughts behind it, and why you wrote it? The name of the poem is The Fisherman, and I wanted to write a poem about the contemporary fishermen today, the things that they have to worry about, and what they have to do today to get ready to go fishing, that was not even thought about when I was growing up a fisherman at that time. The only thing they worried about at that time was, was their boat leaking, did they have oars, were they in good shape, and a few people had outboard motors at that time, but there was very, few other things that they worried about. So, the poem I'm going to read for you is talking about contemporary fishermen today. This poem is called The Fisherman. Another dreary morning in the village of Benown, looking for my cell phone before I head to town. Getting the groceries before I go to sea, another day of fishing, that's the life for me. Now the sun is peeking through the clouds as I climb Patney's Hill, my mind is on the ocean, I hope it's calm and still. When I pass by the two-mile bridge, I'm happy as can be, my thoughts are with the night before and the girl from Inishnee. Now it's time to check the motor and the gear I'll use today. I've learned many years ago the ocean doesn't play. My car is ready to take me on my way, another day of fishing, the bills I have to pay. This life upon the ocean I've known for many years. The fog and rough seas without second thoughts or fears. Hauling pots and fishing nets has made me what I am, wouldn't have it any other way, because I'm a fisherman. You know, it's so from your heart and writing about it, you said you weren't a fisher family yourself, but you can see you're steeped in that culture, that you're close to the sea with neighbours, and it's a salute, I think we're always proud here in Kilmarnock to salute the fishermen, the men that go to sea, it's putting their life in danger and, you know, man against the rough ocean, especially back there by Slidehead. That's for sure. So Pat, we're conscious of the time, but I'll take you back again to that island, I'm kind of fascinated by it, that you grew up in, an island without electricity, and along winter nights are coming in now, so how would it be spent back in your area before it's in the early 60s? Well, especially in the winter time, the big thing was there was two homes that we would go to play cards, and the card game was 25. You could play for anything from a sheep, to turkeys, to geese, you know, that was the things that would come up occasionally. But we would go there anyway just to play for pennies a lot of times. And were they nines? Yeah, if you were playing partners, you'd have nine. Right. So the houses that I played cards at the most was Patrick Burke's in the village of Benown, and also Brian King's in the village of Benown. Brian and Petey King, they were super people. And of course Burke's, Patrick Burke and his wife, her name was Bridget, but we always call her the hero. She was a superwoman, she could do anything. And she was a great card player. And a lot of times if she played a card that beat her husband, he'd be looking at her, you know, very seriously, like, why did you do that? You know. But it was fun. It was the main fun that we had, you know, in the winter time. And we walked to the homes. There was no such thing as even riding bikes to their houses, because they were close enough that we could walk. And was there anything like that was common in Claymore in our house? We had no electricity, there was no card games in our house like that. Maybe we didn't have the hero, but there was a lot of card games. But was there anything you look back on that was unique to that area? Had you any kind of different, was there anything different you remember from your childhood that people used to do to have fun and pass the time? I think card playing was the major thing. I think... Were there any characters like back there that did kind of different things? Oh, yeah. Actually, I remember there was a couple of characters that used to play cards with us. One time there was one of them that played a goose that didn't exist, and of course he was hoping that it was somebody that he knew that would win the goose. Anyway, it was somebody else that won the goose that wasn't a good friend of his, so he was asking saying, hey, are you going to play the goose again? Right. And of course the person said, no, no, no. He said, I'm keeping the goose. And of course, he was in a real pickle, because there was no goose. Okay. There was another tradition that used to take place, was actually before my time, but I've heard many people talk about it, was my grand-uncle, Valentine Lavery, or Val Lavery, he had a home in Le Harden, and people would go there and play cards, and they would actually hold court on things that was going on in the neighborhood if there was some issue, they would hold court and he was the judge. He might appoint somebody as being the solicitor for the person making the case, but he had the ultimate authority as to how the case was decided. God. And that was popular back then, fun. Yeah, that was... And would it be based on some real instance, or was it all fiction? No, it would be based on some real instance, yeah. Okay. And do you think was it a kind of practice of the day in the real court, maybe not? I don't know if it was or not, but there was a lot of cases settled by that court. Oh, yeah, see, well, people would sort out their differences to it. Yeah? Yeah. You always knew that you lost, though, if the person wouldn't show up for the next week, you know, for the session the next week that was going on. That was definitely a unique practice, anyway. Oh, yeah. Was that on in the winter nights too? Maybe after the card game? Well, they might spend the whole night with the court system. You know, there might be multiple cases. So, yeah. And would you know there was a night of court coming up now? I'm not really sure, I can't really speak to that, but I do know that they had there was lots of unique individuals that would go there, and many of them weren't great friends with each other, but because it was my old granduncle's house, and he had a way of getting people together, they would go to his house. And would you recall nights like that then in the States? In your quiet time or quiet moments, would you often relive these times? Yeah, I would. I would think about it sometimes. Like, for example, my granduncle, he was a pretty good poet. He wrote some songs, and he also wrote some poetry, and for his time, he was kind of the local solicitor for the people. If they had an issue on something, they would ask him to write a letter to somebody for them. So, that tradition, by the time that I was old enough to go playing cards and stuff like this, had kind of died out. So, it's very, very interesting. I've never heard that before. Like, I'm interested, it was functional. Hence, many an argument gets after that. Oh, yeah. And, of course, at that time, there was lots of characters, you know, and that was their... Yeah, I think there's another program, Pat, in use that we'll get you back again. Would it be unfair to ask you to... I know the library tradition of singing. Could we go out on a song, if you feel up to it? We can. And it's a song that I wrote, as a matter of fact, so I'm hoping that I remember all the words. Go for it. It lies west of Clifton Town, its beauty is abound. It's got lakes and rivers that run wild and free. It's got culture, it's got pride, and heather on the mountainside. It's this place that we call lovely Arismore. Where the gentle heather grows, and the big turf fires aglow. Where the rivers flow down gently to the sea. Where they play the cards at night, and they dance till broad daylight. It's this place that we call lovely Arismore. Oh, Doon Hill, you are so fair, but patch cottages are rare, and horse racing is not what it used to be. But the northern lights are bright for to guide you home at night. In this place that we call lovely Arismore. Where the gentle heather grows, and the big turf fires aglow. Where the rivers flow down gently to the sea. Where they play the cards at night, and they dance till broad daylight. It's this place that we call lovely Arismore. Where swinehead lights up the sea, and they sell the famine wheat. Where they walk to mass before the break of dawn. In their boats they face the surf, on the bogs they cut the turf. In this place that we call lovely Arismore. Where the gentle heather grows, and the big turf fires aglow. Where the rivers flow down gently to the sea. Where they play the cards at night, and they dance till broad daylight. It's this place that we call lovely Arismore. Now it's got people worldwide, but most of them reside in Boston, Chicago, or L.A. But they got a mighty pride for that rugged mountainside. For this place that we call lovely Arismore. Where the gentle heather grows, and the big turf fires aglow. Where the rivers flow down gently to the sea. Where they play the cards at night, and they dance till broad daylight. It's this place that we call lovely Arismore. This place that we call lovely Arismore. That library genius, just beautiful, not easy thing, but a song with all them verses in it, and just beautiful self-composition. We're just blessed to have you, Pat, and thanks a million for taking the time to come into us here on Kilimanjaro Community Radio, and have a lovely trip back home with Michael and your family, and a safe journey back to the States. You have been just a joy, it's like social history talking to you, a poet, songwriter, singer, and just a lovely account of days gone by and life in the States, and the interest in life you have in the Navy, and we're just it's our pleasure to have you, Pat, recorded here on Kilimanjaro Community Radio, so thanks again. Thank you very much, I enjoyed it immensely. Thanks for the opportunity. Would you like someone to talk to? SeniorLine is Ireland's free national telephone service for older people. So if you feel like company today, phone us and talk to another older person who's part of our team. Free phone, 1800 80 45 91. That's 1800 80 45 91. SeniorLine is open daily from 10 to 10, and we'd love to hear from you. 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