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The main idea of this information is that the Flint water crisis was caused by the decision to switch the water source to the Flint River without proper treatment and corrosion control. This led to the contamination of the drinking water with lead, causing severe health issues for the residents. The crisis had significant financial, economic, and health impacts on the city, especially on children. Lessons learned from the crisis include the importance of ensuring proper water treatment and corrosion control, and the need for government officials to prioritize the well-being of the people they serve. Preventing such crises in the future requires adherence to federal and state protocols and putting the interests of the public first. Good morning and welcome to the U.S. Has Problems podcast where we discuss current issues within the U.S. We are so fortunate today to be able to welcome a very important figure in the U.S. government who is pretty hard to reach, may I add, but I'm so happy she was able to fit us into her busy schedule today, the wonderful Berkley Sharpe from the EPA's Office of Water. Let's give it up for her. Berkley, welcome to the podcast and thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for having me. I am always happy to talk about current water issues and I feel like education about these topics is the best way to spend my time, honestly. Well, let's just get right into it then. Our topic today is the Flint water crisis that Berkley has done countless hours of research and she has spent a bit of her time dealing with the issue herself. Yes, yes, I have indeed spent a scrutinous amount of time on the topic. Yeah, I mean, I feel like unlike some of the issues we've talked about on our podcast previously, most of our listeners have probably heard about this topic. I would say just because of how much media presence it got on its prime. Right, and you know, most issues like this do get swept under the rug and that has a lot to do with politics and media companies wanting to make money and I won't get too into that right now, but I do think as soon as a large population of a city gets affected by a health issue like this one, there is typically a large media coverage about it. Totally, definitely. Well, let's get into some questions because I have a few that I'm sure you've never gotten before. So to start, can you just give us some background on the Flint water crisis for those who haven't heard about this issue? Of course. So starting in 2012, Flint city officials wanted to look into saving some money by finding a different water source for the city. They had used the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department for almost 50 years, but they started to increase their annual rate. So officials came to the decision that they would build a new pipeline to the Karegnondi Water Authority, which would have the city saving an estimated $200 million over the span of 25 years. And this sounds great, but by doing this, they lost the Detroit's water system service completely. So they needed to find an interim source of water until their pipeline was finished. This is when the Flint River came in, and in April of 2014, the city changed the source of their drinking water to the Flint River, which ended up contaminating the drinking water with lead and acting as a severe public health issue for Flint's residents. Yeah, thank you so much for telling us a little bit about it. So why exactly did the city change their drinking water source? Great question. Like I said, it had a lot to do with economic instability. So in the 80s and 90s, Flint closed General Motors automobile manufacturing plants in the city. And this made the city struggle financially since this was a major industry for the area. And following that, in 2002, the Michigan governor, John Engler, declared a state of financial emergency. So a lot of other economically critical events occurred in the area. But fast forwarding a little bit to keep on track. In 2011, Governor Rick Snyder appointed the first series of emergency managers to run the city. And this is when the decision to switch to the Flint water supply from the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department came up as a cost-saving measure. So this plan was enacted in 2014. Wow. So it seems kind of crazy to me that the governor hired these emergency managers because they didn't report to the state instead of the city. Well, they actually reported to the state instead of the city. So it is crazy that they did that. And that's exactly why people view the hiring of these emergency managers as the main cause of the issue because they weren't elected. And they did not have the city's residents in mind because they reported directly to the Michigan State Treasury Department. That's what I thought. So, Berkley, I think now would be a great point for you to tell us a little bit about the science behind the crisis. A lot of our listeners don't really know about that and how exactly the water got so contaminated. Well, get ready because I do have a lot to say here. Oh, gosh. But to start really simply, because they switched the water supply, the water that was running through the pipes was different, obviously. And the water flowing through the pipes from the Flint River contained higher than average chloride levels. Chloride speeds up this process of corrosion. And when there are enough chloride ions in the water supply, chemical complexes start forming with lead and other atoms. Chloride complexes are just soluble, allowing lead to get into the water. So the water from the Flint River was way more corrosive than the Detroit Water and Sewer Dispartment water. And there are a lot of other factors that can make water corrosive. But one of the main factors is a low pH, making it acidic. And we could also include high temperature, conductivity, dissolved oxygen, and some other ones. But this type of water made the lead more soluble from the pipes. And the chemistry of the new water was more corrosive, so it more readily got the lead out of the pipes. It's a known fact that this would happen when water supplies were switched. So it was not at all like a surprise because the water had a lower pH that would absorb more lead from the pipes than the previous water supply would. So sodium chloride, a.k.a. table salt, would get into the Flint River, usually from runoff, because it is a common de-icer on roads when it snows and the roads get icy. And there was also another factor, however, that was a major problem with the river water. Which was bacteria. And to treat this bacteria problem in the water, disinfectants such as chlorine are dumped into the water, which messes with the molecules of bacteria. And chlorine disinfectant, interestingly enough, can react with metals from corroding pipes and become different compounds that do not control bacteria at all. So all that happened from dumping a lot of chlorine was that more chlorine ions were in the water. And they were not disinfecting anything. So they were just speeding up the corrosion of the pipes. And Flint was trying to fly under the radar and ignore the issue by dumping in more chloride when people started getting sick from E. coli and fecal coliform bacteria. But the chlorine only made the pipes corrode more. So the extra chlorine reacting with the organic matter in the river formed disinfectant disinfection byproducts called trihalomethanes. And they added coagulant called ferric chloride that would react with the organic matter in the water to help filter them out. And this took care of the trihalomethanes, but guess what? What? It added more chlorine to the water. And you'd think a scientist team or something would have connected the dots by now and stopped putting chlorine in the water. But the bacteria levels just kept rising because the chlorine was not doing anything in terms of disinfecting. And this is where the legendary disease came from. And it came from bacteria in the water, which killed at least 12 people. And some speculate that it killed more because it's very hard to diagnose, so it's hard to know for sure. But I also wanted to add that humans have been using lead pipes to distribute water for hundreds of years. It's not like this was a rare occurrence of lead being used in water systems. However, starting in the 1920s, there started to be cases of humans developing health conditions from lead poisoning, which led to people not using lead pipes anymore. If they were building new homes and buildings. So even though this was the case, this was the case for most of the US, and the current times, there were still cities like Flint that used pipes of lead and iron. And the EPA enacted a lead and copper rule in 1991 that required strict monitoring of old lead pipes so that they're safe. But you might be thinking, how could lead pipes ever really be safe if so many people have been harmed from lead poisoning? Well, there are anti-corrosive metals such as orthophosphate that keeps lead from corroding by forming a compound that makes a protective coating on the inside of the pipe. And when this layer isn't there, electron-stealing chemicals, also known as oxidants, can react with lead, which leads to corrosivity from the lead dissolving into the water and therefore contaminating the water. And Flint did not add orthophosphate, so they did not add lead to lead pipes. They did not add orthophosphate, so they did not add anything actually at all that would be an anti-corrosion chemical. And so when they switched to the Flint water supply, there was nothing in the pipes that would be an anti-corrosion chemical. Wow, that was a lot of information. There's definitely a lot of history there, but thank you for telling us a little bit about it. So my question is, what is the problem? Is it the pipes or is it the water? Well, I'm not saying that the pipes had nothing to do with it, because they were half the problem. However, the water was not as corrosive in the previous water source, so the amount of lead that contaminates drinking water can be influenced by other factors other than corrosivity of water. For instance, like how warm the pipes are and the length of time that the water stays in the pipes. Also, I just wanted to mention that lead pipes are not the norm anymore. And kind of like I was saying earlier, like the older homes before the mid-80s might still have lead pipes, but the majority of homes now use either plastic PVC or PEX pipes or copper pipes. So the fact that the whole city was, well not the whole city, but majority of the city was still using lead pipes was a bit of a problem in itself. So the water supply was a major component in this case of lead contamination, because the previous water source, which again was the Detroit Water and Sewage Department, was treated for corrosion control with orthophosphate for over 20 years. So the supply was safe, you know, in terms of water corrosivity while running through lead pipes. However, when the city switched to the Flint Water Treatment Plant, the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, which we will later discuss probably had plenty of problems, it didn't implement corrosion control in the proper way. And honestly, they didn't implement anything at all. Wow, okay. So when did the city start noticing the contamination problem? So it took a few months after the April 2012 switch for the residents to start complaining about the smell and color of the water. And then a few more months for E. coli and total chloroform bacteria to start being detected. But this prompted the city to tell its residents to start boiling their water. And they increased chlorine levels in the water as well. But as you could tell, probably figure that once the city started telling its residents to start boiling water, it kind of started a panic. And a lot of legal action was started taking place in early 2015 because Flint was found to be in violation of the Safe Drinking Water Act. Due to the level of disinfection in the byproducts, also known as total trihalomethanes, like we were talking about before. And they can cause cancer and other health problems in humans. But trihalomethanes are caused by the extra chlorine reacting with some of the organic chemicals from river water. And basically, like I had already said, Flint was trying hard to ignore the problem simply by dumping more chlorine under the radar. In February of 2015, there started to be high levels of lead in homes and lead contents of 104 parts per billion were showing up when the EPA's limit for lead in drinking water was 15 parts per billion. And that's just really scary stuff. That's way over the legal limit. And it was in April that the EPA was notified that the Flint water treatment plant did not have corrosion control treatments in place. So to add on to the sketchy actions from Flint officials, they left out two samples from the reports on lead levels from the city so that they would stay within the federally mandated levels. And in September, lead levels in children were found to be elevating. And a study from the local Hurley Medical Center found that 2.1 percent of children age 5 and under compared to 4 percent after the switch. So it's like double. And this definitely got civilians riled up about the matter. And eventually, in October, the city switched back to Detroit water supply. However, the damage had been done. And in December, lead levels. And in December, newly elected Mayor Karen Lieber declared a state of emergency over the lead levels. And in January, Governor Rick Snyder declared a state of emergency in Genesee County. And then two weeks later, President Obama declared a state of emergency, mostly in regards just to help federally fund the crisis. And the EPA eventually stepped in and issued an emergency order for the crisis at the end of January. But at this point, let's just say the officials were in deep trouble and having to testify in front of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. So I'm guessing that the answer is yes. But I just want to ask, did anyone in particular get blamed for this crisis? So a lot of the blame was put on Governor Snyder, since he was the governor at the time, obviously. And he tried really hard to spread the blame to local, state, and federal levels as well. And he laid out an action plan that would replace the city's 8,000 lead service lines to mostly copper pipes. And he tried to increase school resources and replace public water fixtures and provided support for children under six years old who had elevated lead levels. But I mean, to be honest, he was not looking too good to the public. And the first of many criminal charges that were dealt out were to three officials. Two were state, and one was the city employee. And that was followed by a lawsuit filed against two big companies. And one was a water quality consultant that the city used. And the other was a firm that helped operate the water treatment plant using the Flint River. In July of 2016, six officials, all state employees, were filed for criminal charges. And all in all, the people who were charged and the companies who were sued just turned out to be one messy snowball effect of people blaming someone else for something that cannot ever really depend on one party, obviously. Definitely sounds a little bit messy there. But what were some of the impacts from the crisis? There were so many impacts. And there still are so many effects that are happening today and probably will happen over all these residents' lifetimes. But I mean, it's really hard to just name a few. But I can start with the impact it had financially, not even just on the city itself, but nationally as well. So the federal government allocated taxpayer dollars to help this crisis. And the crisis cost the state of Michigan over $350 million, and a majority of which was spent on replacing the lead pipes to copper pipes. But the state of Michigan also put together a settlement fund for the victims of the crisis, which turned out to be about $600 million, 80% of which was given to children because they were the most affected. That's awesome. That's really great. Really, I'll get into that a little bit later. But the children was the saddest part of this crisis. That sounds like it, definitely. So I'm glad they got some compensation there. Right. But in terms of the economic effects on Flint, a lot of people would say that the two main effects were the values of homes declined greatly, and local businesses were hurt as well. It's estimated that Flint's housing stock has fallen by about $550 million, which is crazy because Flint's housing market and their local economy in general was already struggling before the water crisis. And I also add that Flint's drinking water was not technically declared lead-free until January 24, 2017. So technically, from 2014 to 2017, the water was contaminated. And Flint is not a very large city, and it had already been experiencing some economic trouble in the past before the crisis. So the crisis itself did not help at all in terms of tourism or drawing people to come with there. But the health impacts due to lead poisoning were and are a huge deal because of the crisis. Twelve people died from Legionnaires' disease and affected a total of 87 people. And Legionnaires' is a type of pneumonia that's caused by a specific type of bacteria that can be ingested from bacteria-contaminated water. And the effects of lead poisoning on reproductive health are often talked about because fertility rates in Flint dropped by about 12% and fetal deaths rose by 58% since April 2014. And also, children, like I was saying, were the main victims of the crisis because the lead poisoning is just known to harm children developmentally. So that can mean, you know, learning delays, hyperactivity, emotional agitation, skin rashes, and other symptoms. And these health effects cannot obviously be scientifically linked to the drinking water and the crisis itself, but they're definitely being associated with the issue. Oh, sure. That had some effect on it. Yeah. And especially, like, with the spike that after the crisis, like, it's definitely associated with it. Right. It's pretty evident. And the people of Flint are still experiencing health defects from lead poisoning. These effects can last a lifetime, and they probably will. But the one thing that's not talked about as often is the mental health effects that the water crisis had on people. During the crisis, tens of thousands of children and adults in Flint developed high blood levels, which put them at greater risk for cognitive deficits, mental health problems, and other health problems they don't have in life. So the real kicker, I would say, is the amount of time that these negative effects are going to last for these residents of Flint. This is just so devastating to hear. It's truly hard. Well, we are almost running out of time, so I wanted to end on a question. What do you think we've learned from this crisis, and how do you think these hazardous events can be avoided or prevented in the future? I really love that question, because I think it's very important to not just dwell on all the harm and destruction, but also take into account the lessons learned through the crisis itself. It was a horrible, horrible thing that happened to these people and the city, and they probably won't recover for so long. But I think it's important to point out what we have learned and how this can be prevented. First and foremost, I think it really opened the federal government's eyes on issues involving clean water. So clean drinking water, obviously, is a luxury, and that's something that not every country has, and the U.S. is a nation that considers clean drinking water a right to all. Which, I mean, is awesome, but when the health of civilians is threatened and the government is to blame, attention is drawn to the issue, and one way or another, action will be taken. I would also say that it's a wake-up call to local and state governments to be sure that proper caution is taken with following federal and state protocol so that there are no slip-ups. If the Flint River water was being properly treated, and if there were steps taken to protect pipes with an anti-corrosive agent, then the crisis could have been avoided. And it's also a lesson for officials to make sure that they have the people's interest in mind first. I mean, the governor of the city hired emergency city managers who made the economic decision to switch the water supply, even though they knew that the new water would be too corrosive and would more readily take up lead from the pipes. So this obviously was thinking in terms of money and not in the health of the city's residents. Overall, it was a water crisis that got a wide amount of coverage and let people know that even though we live in the United States of America, that does not mean that we are protected from human health crises like lead poisoning from drinking water. And I hope that in the future, we can work to make sure that every city is taking proper measures and following exact regulations so that all U.S. citizens can have access to clean water so that health issues like this one can be avoided. I mean, I hope so, too. I think that was such a great note to end on. And I just want to thank you so, so much for coming in today and talking to us about this. I think this crisis was an important one to highlight, especially for our listeners. And I hope everyone listening learned something today about a serious water issue that happened in the U.S. Thanks for having me. I really enjoy educating on topics like these so that everybody can understand the importance of clean water. All right. Well, I hope everyone has a fantabulous day and you tune in next week. Bye, y'all.