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The hosts of Let's Talk About It discuss their favorite moments from episodes 7 and 9. They talk about the background information revealed in episode 7 and the intense scenes in episode 9 involving torture and the consequences of the Empire's control. They also discuss the psychological tendencies of certain characters, such as Dedra's sociopathic tendencies. The hosts mention the Geneva Convention and compare the torture in the show to historical examples. They also mention the stalking dilemma with a character named Zero Karn. Welcome back to Let's Talk About It. I'm Ava. I'm Zach. I'm Ariana. And today we're going to be talking about and or episodes seven and nine. So Zach, which of the two is your favorite? I'm not gonna lie, it's hard. Episode nine is gotta be in my top three. I wouldn't say like seven wasn't good. It was decent. It gives some really decent background information like maybe some key information like why the resistance happened to attack Al Dhani, like maybe some secret motives, and what people thought in the ISB, why they would do this massive attack on the garrison, like how to how to influence the course of the whole series basically. Okay, and okay Zach, so what were your favorite moments in both episodes? I would say number seven, it was like the conversation between I think Luthan and his assistant, kind of like, actually no it wasn't between Luthan and his assistant, it was between Luthan and Mothma, kind of like him justifying like why the resistance can happen, what it could cause, like say like he said like with resistance it would cause them to kind of like rise up and try to get other people to rise up, but also give the Empire more reasons to assert their control more, like be stricter with the laws, maybe, I don't know if this is random, curfews, which I don't know why curfews, I see why curfews could be instated, but I don't know, maybe stricter punishments, and then Luthan kind of reminds Mothma like, hey you signed up for this, you knew what could go down, and now that it's gone down, you're in a position to like, yeah, there's no going back, you're stuck with us, and you could either die a lot, like just to quote, you can either die so many times under the Empire or die once trying to fight the Empire, I think that's what he said, I don't know when he said it, but I can guarantee you said it at least once. That's a good take, that's a good take, so what about episode 9, do you have a favorite scene from that episode? That one, it's kind of morbid, like from the way they like, how they got Bix to like, in the interrogation, like what they used was morbid, it was something like, I know it would cause mental harm, I have no idea what it was, but it was the advice to kind of like, I guess maybe, I don't know how they did it, but it was involving children screaming, it was like painful, I guess somehow, like it was that painful where she's dazed, it's gotta be messed up, and the doctor there that like, did the treatment, the torture method, he's like, yeah, multiple uses are not good, you will probably die, so let's just keep this quick, let's keep this smooth, and just give us the answer after like, one use, and then another one was like, when they fried the entire bridge, like up level 2, just because like, a couple guys messed up, and then the turning point for like, the shift manager, like beforehand Cassian was talking to him about, hey how do we escape, how many guards there are on this level, and the shift manager was just having none of it, he was like, nah, not my information to give, there's not, I know what you're trying to do, I'm not with it, I want to get out of here, like legitimately, sure I'd like to get out of here as soon as possible, but I'd like to live, so I'm gonna just leave it be, and then afterwards, like later in episode 9, I met an old guy who was like, really close to like, being released, because the shift he had was lower than normal, and you know, Adani, and just basically the Empire tripling or doubling the amount of shifts everyone has, the old man has a stroke, and they can't do anything to save him, because, and you get, the old man gets released, but not in the way he hoped, not anyone, so it's morbid, it's a good episode, but it's morbid. So can you take the torture that Bix endured, and kind of compare it to something that happened in, say, World War II, with the gas chambers maybe, do you think there's like some level of torture throughout the years that is equivalent to what Bix had? Now what, the torture Bix endured was more mechanical, it seems like, but the thought that came to my mind was kind of a medieval torture, you know, like the Spanish Inquisition, where there was a lot of those devices that were horrific in their own way. Yeah, I was, I was thinking like, how like, this was like before, like during the Empire, just like before the Empire was like destroyed, it won, and I kind of want to take that to like the aftermath of like the whole World War II spiel was done, after Germany was, the Nazi regime was done, it was, there's probably like small fragments left, but it was just done. See, the United Nations was like, kind of formed, like the Republic that was formed after the Empire, and with that came like, hey, this issue was horrible. World War II, a lot of terrible things happened, everyone, there was too many deaths, we need to try and prevent this, and if the, and there are other wars that happened that are on a smaller scale, but still kind of brutal, we need to mitigate the costs of war, and like, lessen these casualties that will be inflicted, and so what there was, they drafted up this thing, like, I don't know where, I think like, it was at Switzerland, it's called the Geneva Convention, and what the Geneva Convention does is like outline like, human rights, like the statutes on war crimes, the example I'm going to be talking about right now, and so what it states, kind of like, it's like, they say somehow like, sections, or like, the broad defining of like, what war crimes are, was like, willful killing, and the ones that are very kind of prominent here are like, torture and human treatment, including biological experiments, willfully causing grief, suffering, or serious injury to body or health, and willfully depriving, actually, not taking the hostages, but I don't think number six is good, but actually kind of six, because like, episode eight, but we want to talk about right now, willfully depriving a prisoner of war or other protected person of the right of fair and unregulated trial, so our topic, and probably not what we're supposed to talk about, was episode eight, where, this was before, actually not episode eight, no, episode seven, where he gets a trial, but he just doesn't get the police case, almost like he was not protected by the rights of fair and regulated trial, just basically, yep, prison, have a nice day, goodbye, so with torture, it's basically numbers two and three, torturing and human treatment, obviously, that form of torture was horrendous, and probably would be a war crime if it was used, which it wasn't used in Nazi Germany, but if it was used, it would be considered a war crime, but since it was before, like, the UN, or the Geneva, wouldn't think that was a, would, tweak, alright, so, yeah, torture and human treatment, like, if the torture fits, it's not nice, if it was done before the Geneva Convention was ever instated, it would have been like a Geneva suggestion at the time, Geneva did know it was an option at the time, yeah, so with the Geneva Convention, one of the things is biological experiments, it seems to be that Bix's torture was definitely an experiment, they even said that in an episode, in the episode when they were doing it, that, um, the, the treatment of her was still experimental, but they were just gonna do it anyway, because that's what they wanted to do, I think, here's the thing, I think it was also used on the other guy, I don't know his name, or I don't remember it, but it was used on him, so I think it was a series of experiments, that, with this torture, with these methods that they carried out, it was kind of like a series of experiments and tests, like, hey, is this effective, and when they saw that it was effective, they're like, yeah, like you said. Definitely, definitely. So, on to my next question, so my next question for you, Zach, is, are some personality types prone to following violent or oppressive ideologies? Like, my thought was, Dedra, she seems to have psychopathic tendencies. I don't say psychopathic, but definitely, like, yeah, you're in my way, I'll gladly take you out, just so I can, it's kind of, if you're bumping the road, I'll gladly run you over, if so, easily, just like that, it's like a split decision, so I wouldn't say psychopath, but like, more like, you know those, like, ambitious villains that are, like, willing to do anything to take control, like, get this big batch of money, get this item over there, it's kind of like that, but like, I'm like, a low-key sense. Yeah, okay, so after looking it up, she has sociopathic tendencies, not psychopathic tendencies, and looking at the symptoms, it's lack empathy for others, impulse behavior, attempting to control others with threats or aggression, using intelligence, charm, or charisma to manipulate others, she tries to change her personality to be a little bit more friendly, she did that with Bix a little bit, not learning from mistakes or punishment, we haven't seen any of that yet, lying for personal gain, I can see her doing that, and then showing a tendency to physical violence or fights. Yeah, that last one is not there, but I could, the impulse behavior, not there, attempting to attempt to control others with threats or aggressions, that one I can see. Yeah, we can definitely see that throughout the episode. Do we want to talk about Zero Karn in episode 9? We can talk about him, I mean, it's an interesting dilemma that she has put herself in with that man, he is now stalking her because he's obsessed with her, it's freaky, it's odd, and you can kind of see her fear with it because she wasn't expecting that to happen. And she like, she's like, yeah, you come near me again, I will throw you into jail somewhere in like the outer rim, yeah, in the outer rim, it's like uncharted, like, they don't have much control there, but it's not a place you want to be, so that's a good thought, and Zero Karn, yeah, he's probably like seething, just like, damn it, why, give me a chance. He just wants the woman that he has, he's gonna say love, but an obsession with, to feel the same way about him, and that's not gonna happen. So, my next question is, is going more to the resistance and away from the imperial mess that's going on, how are radical movements built, and what allows them to kind of come about? Well, see, obviously with resistance movements, it could be a variety of things, it could be like, yeah, this government, I hate this government, let's just get rid of it, and this is prominent here, like, there have been resistance movements all over in the recent years, in like old times, like say, the Revolutionary War, there was a big rebellion that kind of like created the United States, all that stuff, and with Nazi Germany, it was more or less like trying to inconvenience them as much as possible. Just like, say, here, they tried to, they tried to, let's see here, this is a source I pulled up here, it says that like, they assisted like, Jews escaping from like, concentration camps, like in camps, just in any way, helping them escape like Nazi rule, and like, with like the Allies, and there were probably air battles going on, there were probably like, airmen that probably got ejected from their planes, and now like, need a way to find their way back to like, Allied lines, they have those resistance movements, help them go back to those. Definitely, there's actually a movie around World War II era, I forget what it's called, but something like that happens, and it's kind of an interesting ordeal, but yeah, that's a good take. With resistance movements though, with, this is where it, like, obviously, there's finances that need to be involved, and I think these resistance movements were specifically funded by Britain, like, they were in contact with like, special operations with Britain, but like, with World War II, there's like, there's kind of like a divide, there's like, obviously with, there are two fronts, there's like the Eastern Front, like the Western Front, I guess, no, that would make three, doesn't matter, getting sidetracked. Basically, there's like, non-communist resistance movements, and like, communist resistance movements in the Eastern side, like, kind of like, more like, Soviet Union, or like, Poland, because, yeah, those resistance movements probably had different views on like, how to go about doing their business, and like, how to convince the others, like, to join their resistance movement, which, that makes things kind of complicated, back then, so, it doesn't matter, that's what I said, what do we got next? What is the price of resistance against the government, or against, you know, the people trying to control? Well, then, that's interesting, because, obviously, there are many costs of war, but resistance, it's even more so, because with some governments, there's obviously the elites, they're like, better off, and then they're like, people down there, like, you can choose to rebel, but, there's not going to be much left for you to take place, and obviously, there's going to be a lot of people dead, or a lot of people wounded, a lot of people ill, and then, after you're done, if the resistance does win, there's got to be a decision, which could be easy, it could be hard, which one, which part, which person, like, forms the government, who is going to help build up that government, and then, how is this government going to be built up? Institutions are going to be built up to support this government, and that there, is going to bring a lot of people out the woodwork, like, hey, I want to be in charge of this, I want to be in charge of that, I want to help with this, I want to help with that, I want this money, where's my cut? And, it's a lot of, like, political and financial, just, either way, the financial problems is going to be, before, like, the resistance wins the war, it's going to be, like, confusing and all that, but after, like, the war, it's going to be hard, but, like, it's not going to be, it's not going to be tidy, is what I'm trying to say. Definitely. So, for the last couple minutes, I would like you to choose a character from the show, and try to analyze the character a little bit, the symbolism for the characters, and everything like that. I kind of wanted to, like, go back to, like, prison camps. Not the prison, but the prison sector, like, Narkina 8, is what it's called, I think. Yeah, it's Narkina 8, never mind. So, basically, I think that took inspiration. It definitely took inspiration from, like, it kind of diffused between, like, forced labor camps, and concentration camps. See, with forced labor, they're, like, building, like, machines, or, like, parts for machines, so they can, like, boost their war effort, and they eat, and instead of, like, dying from starvation, they have a lot of food, except, like, it's that normal prison food, like, there's no flavor to it, it looks bland. It's almost like, I don't want to eat it just because I have pride in myself. I don't want to eat this bland, tasteless garbage. But they have awards in that system, like, the winner, like, they have, like, one has flavor, and the other, like, the one table with the best efficiency, they get, like, certain benefits, like, better food, tasty food, like, that food has taste. But the scene that I want to, where I want to just take to the concentration side was, like, the scene I mentioned before, where they just learned that, like, some men, like, almost all of Level 2, or all of Level 2 was just, like, fried, and when they mean fried, I mean, all of them just died, they just killed them straight up, and it was because, like, some mishaps or mistake caused by some man, and they're like, haha, you made a mistake. We don't take mistakes in this, in this, which, you just die now, and just, we'll replace you some other time. And Cassian, he kind of, he makes an allusion to this, like, he explains beforehand, like, while he's trying to, like, get information about how many guards on their level, he says, like, yeah, we're cheaper than droids, we can just be replaced, we can get killed off, we can get replaced, and if the replacements aren't good enough, they can be replaced as well. So that's what I like to look at. And that's, it's a kind of good meshing of the two, because, like, with camps, it was basically, like, after, like, the Empire took over, and, like, Germany took over, like, certain areas of, like, Eastern, Eastern Europe, they put camps in place to, like, help boost their war effort. And their Kenaids, at some point, they took it over, and they're using that to, like, boost their war effort, to make their parts for a mission, to provide weapons, air, aircraft, all of that, just, like, a cheap way to earn, to boost the war effort and get supplies, while also, if they need to, just eliminate the ones they either don't care for, or who actively want to get rid of. That was good. That was good. So that is currently all the time that we have on this episode. So that was, let's talk about it.
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