Stonewall Interview - APUSH

The Stonewall Uprising, corrected to be called an uprising instead of a riot, was a response to the discriminatory practices faced by the LGBTQ community for decades. The Stonewall Inn, owned by the Mafia, was a popular gay bar where police raids were common. On June 28th, 1969, a police raid sparked a six-day uprising. The first pride parade took place on the one-year anniversary of Stonewall. The uprising led to the creation of pride marches and increased visibility and acceptance of the LGBTQ community. However, there were issues of racism, cisnormativity, and exclusion within the queer community. The Stonewall Museum and Archives holds a vast collection of LGBTQ history. My name is Ashton Littleton and today I will be talking about the Stonewall Uprising and how it led to modern pride. So I say Stonewall Uprising because I was corrected by a person that I worked with on this. Their name is Ben Smith from the Stonewall Museum, their pronouns are they them. To use their words because they said it better than I could, uprising rather than riot because violence was first enacted by the police and society at large. They were resisting the discriminatory practices that LGBTQ people were facing for decades prior and was the catalyst. A riot is characterized by violence and no one was killed at the Stonewall Uprising nor was violence the goal of the uprising. They're fighting against the prejudice practice for arresting people based on their sexuality and saying no to hateful treatment although property damage did take place. It's important to know that the original Stonewall Inn was mafia owned which I will be talking about later and police raids were very common prior to the uprising resulting in several arrests just for being present or dancing with the same sex. That fateful night those in attendance said no more and the uprising lasted for several days. So for the continuation of this podcast I will try my best to refer to this as the Stonewall Uprising as I believe that is more correct than saying the Stonewall Riots. Now starting off with pure facts these were found from the History Channel as well as several other LGBTQ sites that confirmed what I found. In the 1960s gay bars became a popular space for people to express themselves but gay behavior was illegal so police tended to harass gay bars and clubs. By gay behavior was illegal I mean it was illegal to dance with the same sex, it was illegal to serve drinks to people who were publicly queer and it was illegal to cross dress which is what a lot of trans people do or did in that time to fully express themselves. Many gay bars were owned by the Mafia as was the Stonewall Inn, this was just because that was the easiest way for them to make money and it was technically illegal so not many people who weren't already criminals owned gay bars. A powerful crime family which allowed them to get away with selling illegal alcohol and letting gay people dance. They welcomed drag queens and homeless gay youth as well. Crime still occurred but corrupt cops tended to tip off the bars ahead of time. On June 28th police raided Stonewall and they were not tipped off. Police entered the bar, attacked patrons and arrested both employees and people they suspected of cross dressing. They checked if people were cross dressing by dragging them to the bathrooms and checking their sex. People waited outside the bar and anger rose as people watched the police aggressively manhandle patrons. One lesbian was hit over the head as she was arrested and yelled to the onlookers to act. This is believed to be the inciting act for the continued uprising. The police attempted to barricade inside the club but the barricade was broken several times and the club set on fire. The uprising continued for six more days. The first pride parade continued on the one year anniversary of Stonewall. The first considered pride chant was say it loud, gay is proud which has continued to this day to be a chant people use. The reminder day pickets were from July 4th, 1965 to July 4th, 1969. These were done before Stonewall outside of Independence Hall, Pennsylvania. They were fighting for equality, opportunity and dignity for queer people. The Christopher street liberation day was June 28th, 1970. This is in commemoration of the Stonewall and it was considered the first gay pride parade. The Christopher street liberation day umbrella committee was created and their aim was a massive march and a gay pride week from June 22nd to the 28th which would be the week before the anniversary of Stonewall. In 1971, other cities, states and countries began creating pride traditions. One of these would be New York and Stonewall, San Francisco, I can't think of any others off the top of my head but those were some of the more common ones and these continued from around June 1971 to present. I conducted several interviews with several different people about the intersectionality that came from the Stonewall uprising. I also interviewed them just on the general significance that they think the Stonewall uprising had on the queer community. From one person, Ben Smith, who I mentioned earlier, they said that regarding significance, the uprising was the boiling point that catalyzed the gay liberation movement and sent a message around the world that LGBTQ people will no longer stand for prejudice and violence against the community. It is important to know that there were many protests that took place years before the uprising such as sit-ins, which is where these people would go and drink alcohol regardless of the laws that were saying that it was illegal to serve alcohol to queer people. Sit-ins, which as we know from the civil rights era, were when people would go to sit-in diners and bars regardless of the discrimination that took place, as well as reminder day pickets in front of Independence Hall, which as I mentioned earlier, were pickets that served for equality, opportunity, and dignity. Most influential is that the uprising is what started all the pride marches and parades that still happen today. On the anniversary of the uprising, a Christopher Street Gay Liberation Day march attracted thousands of people to commemorate the uprising and every year since we have pride marches. It is also because of this increased visibility and a show of solidarity that more people felt comfortable being openly queer, although it was still illegal to be LGBTQ and many people couldn't afford to be open due to the threat of losing jobs, housing, family, etc. So these events provided one of the only safe places for them to be themselves. There is strength in numbers. Another interview I conducted was with Corey Hanessy, who is the director of the Raleigh LGBTQ Center. They said that, although there have been many notable moments in history that define queer and trans existence today, Stonewall was the catalyst to pride as we know it. It started as a protest and a fight for others, especially police and governmental figures to treat LGBTQ plus people as human. We have come a long way, but some of the challenges we are dealing with now in 2024 are setting us back in the early days of the movement. I also asked these two about intersectionality in the queer community and how Stonewall had an impact on that. This is what Corey had to say. There's still a lot of racism and cis-normativity within the queer community. At that time, there were many trans and BIPOC people fighting alongside the white, cisgender gay men and lesbians. That true community connectedness didn't last long. Silveira Rivera, a prominent figure at Stonewall, dealt with hate and ignorance the years after the uprising. She was booed off stages, harassed, and discriminated against by people in her own communities just for her identity as a gender diverse person of color. These things still occur to so many, which is reflected in the number of trans women of color who are brutally murdered every year for just existing as their authentic selves. This is something that isn't very talked about, but I think it's important to mention in a podcast like this, because Stonewall was the moment where we had the most true interconnectedness, and it's important that we remember that as a community, because trans people in general and people of color in general in the LGBTQ community are not respected as much as they should be. And remembering Stonewall and remembering how they were there alongside white, cisgender people is so important, because they did just as much as everyone else did, if not more. I also asked this question to Ben Smith, and here is their response. There is no doubt that through the creation of Pride Marches Parade, solidarity was strengthened, and through that, an increased confidence in coming out and fighting for their rights. It is important to note, though, that this movement primarily consisted of white gay men. Many lesbians, and especially transgender people, including Marsha P. Johnson and Silveira Rivera, were intentionally excluded, even though they very much played important roles in queer liberation. Unfortunately, transgender people were considered by many in the community to be a detriment to the movement and were often excluded, as well as lesbians due to misogyny, let alone bisexuals, asexuals, intersex people, and so on that the gay male community didn't even realize existed or intentionally ignored. Unfortunately, this prejudice within the community is still taking place today, although I'm happy to say less so with each new generation. I think this specific one is very important because it mentions the misogyny with lesbians in the community in its early days. Because of the white gay men that were running this, a lot of them were still misogynistic, even though they were fighting for their own rights as well. So there was a lot of, oh, I can't be misogynistic because I'm queer type of behavior, if that makes sense. And so it's important to remember that lesbians also fought at the beginning against their own community. I also asked both interviewees how the places that they work impacted the local community and its LGBTQ culture. Here is Ben Smith's response. Stonewall National Museum and Archives is a bastion of our history and a physical representation of our resilience, joy, pain, successes, philosophies, et cetera. We were founded in 1973 as a small library in a college student's parent's garage. Today we now hold over 27,000 different titles in our library and approximately 6 million pages of history in the archives. Many people who visit the Stonewall National Museum, Archives, and Library for the first time are immediately impacted by seeing so much material from or about the community and gives many a hope and reassurance that progress has been made and continues to. Also, researchers using the archives synthesizes this history for the public to access and provides evidence of our struggles and our successes. For example, right now I have a researcher who has almost finished his book on LGBTQ bars in Florida from the 1960s to today and had to stop after he found over 1,000 different bars even though he could have kept going. This one book shows how prevalent we are even though many people would rather LGBTQ people never to exist or prefer us to stay in the closet or deny our existence prior to the uprising. We also have several traveling exhibits that can be licensed for display anywhere in the U.S., including an exhibition on how the Harlem Renaissance was just as queer as it was black. The Stonewall National Museum and Library provides a home to the community where people can see themselves reflected and know they are not alone. As for Corey, they said that, for the last several years, we have put on one of the biggest Pride events in North Carolina. It's a time for celebration of queer and trans identities, but we always take moments to remind attendees why we do what we do. Again, our activism in this space is focused on educating others on the history of our communities. I also asked Corey, how do you think that younger generations of queer people are aware of Stonewall and the impact it had on the queer community and our fight for equality even to this day? How do you think we can work to make the younger generations more aware of their history? I don't think, and this is their response. I don't think many young people know much about Stonewall, unfortunately. This is why it's important that we keep talking about it and continue sharing stories. As a young person myself, I was never taught about the uprising or any of the events that took place after. Sometimes it's hard to convince others that knowing their history is important, but that's our job as leaders. Since topics on DEI are being stripped from schools and universities all over, there are very few places sharing this information. We have to continue advocacy by way of education. Later in this podcast, I will be interviewing several queer students on their awareness of Stonewall, as well as educating them to the best of my ability and asking them what impact they think it had from their perspective as a queer teen. Before I start sharing the interviews and commenting on those, I wanted to do a quick testimonial. As a queer person myself, a trans and ace teenager, I have been aware of Stonewall since I was in sixth grade or so, and I am very aware of the impact it had on me. I've been doing research on the people involved, as well as the event itself, for years now. I, throughout this project, as well as just telling people about the project, have been aware that a lot of people don't know their own history. They don't know the impact. They don't know the events. They don't know the names of the people who fought for them. It's not concerning, but I feel that if we don't remember our history, we're bound to repeat it, and especially with the events we've seen occurring lately, I'm scared it is repeating. I chose to do this podcast to inform the people around me, the people whose history this is, and people whose history this isn't, of the events and the struggle we've gone through. I, in doing this, am outing myself a little bit. Not that people didn't know already, but I think it's important that people know who I am and why I'm doing this, because it gives them someone to go to. It gives them someone to go to if they have questions. It gives them someone to go to to learn more and to find reliable sources. I don't do this to call attention to myself. I just do this to call attention to the issue. I am here with my first interviewee. Would you like to introduce yourself? Sure. My name is Laura Haag. I go by she, her pronouns. I am a stay-at-home parent. I do homeschooling. That's kind of my job. And then, in and around that, I do some safety work when it comes to local protests or just any events that might be, you know, dangerous or anything. Basically, I'm just a big mouth, and I read a lot of news and try to keep everybody informed with correct information so that they can make the best decisions for them in their activism life. What is your prior knowledge of the Stonewall Uprising, its causes, and the subsequent events relating to queer rights? Just whatever knowledge you have about that. So I've done a lot of reading, just kind of learning about it as I have gotten older. I have learned a lot about the approach up to it, why there were so many problems, why the police were targeting these specific clubs, the relationships of the mafia being able to keep the money and essentially using queer people needing the space and capitalizing on it, because capitalism, and the police were trying to get rid of people, the queer people, and they were being stopped by the mafia, and it just fueled the flame, and things eventually came to a head. And it's probably important to also highlight that while this one has a name, and it's famous, there were a lot of ones that led up to this one. This one just got the most attention, and, you know, so it's very important to think about how Stonewall, or name any other part of our history that has a name, right? There's a lot of stuff that happened to lead up to that, and it's not all problems. Sometimes the biggest events are the culmination of the work of everybody leading up to it. Yeah, this is just, so the next question I have is, how do you and your community acknowledge the effects of the Stonewall Uprising today through activism, remembrance, celebrations, anything along those lines? So Pride is, of course, the big one, that's the very short line that one can make. So it's really important in what I do, due to the fact that there's a rise of white supremacy and just all the haters, the antis, and, you know, this Pride came from, let's remember what our peers did, and they, you know, they made a statement, they finally pushed back enough to let their voices be heard, and so we should celebrate that. And unfortunately, we're kind of overcorrecting and going the other way now, and now it's more of a, we need this, because we need to carry on the message that was created back then. So, like, it's not so much of, oh, it's this great celebration, there's this underlying foundation of it that is, today, more than ever, do we need to have the numbers and have these places for those kids coming up to see that, no, we're still fighting, we're still fighting, and we're going to keep fighting. We're not going to give up on this, so, like, you, kids, coming up, we're making these safe spaces. So, it's a lot of the celebration, but it's also a lot of the, now more than ever, we need to be the loudest voice in the room to make sure that everybody knows that we're not going away, we're not, and to let the antis know that they're not pushing us out, and let the kids know that we're still doing the work, and we will continue for you. Yeah. You mentioned white supremacy earlier, and a few other things, so I wanted to ask what impact do you think Stonewall had on intersectionality, how we view BIPOC members of our community, how we view gender diverse members of our community, and their identity? Yeah, so, I've, in kind of dipping my foot into activism world, lots of those conversations are really, like, at the top of the list, because you, when you learn about the characters from the Stonewall uprising story, you start learning about how, you know, it's like, okay, we have this cast of people who took part and did their thing, but when you break it down, you really can look at one person, and when you start learning about their story, and leading up to Stonewall, where did they get, how did they get there? You know, you start learning about Marsha P. Johnson. Back then, like, a black woman, a black trans woman, was not even on anybody's list, like, that vocabulary didn't even exist, so it's like, when you think about growing up as a black person, in that city, in that town, and then adding in the fact that there were no safe spaces, there were no places for them to be themselves, explore this, there were no books, and even if there were books, as a black person, they probably didn't have access to those, right? So, that's where you start getting those overlapping, this is how, this is my story, and I'm a black woman, I'm a black man, I'm a black gay man, I like to do, you know, everybody paints, other people paint, I do drag, like, that's my art, that's what I like, and not having all of those, like, we're privileged as a white, cis, hetero person to just have things, like, just available to us, and so when you start thinking about people in poverty, people who are, you know, in a housing crisis, people of BIPOC, and it's, when you sit down at the table with these people, and look at all of those faces, and we all say, let's, you know, introduce ourselves, it's immediate how many little layers and intersections you see, and it's like, Stonewall, as a flame point in history, like, has all of that, and it's just like, all of it can go back to that, and it just really, kind of, not to sugarcoat it, but it's, it's kind of nice, when you look at all those intersections, and look at Stonewall, there's a lot of parallels, the reason they were able to pull off Stonewall, is because all of those intersections came together, and said, let's get some stuff done, and it happened, and so that is, you know, one of those connections you can, kind of, pull with you forward from history. And I think it's what I have planned, is, do you think that younger generations of queer people are aware of Stonewall, and the impact it had on the queer community, and our fight to equality, even to this day? How do you think we can work to make younger generations more aware of that? Um, so I think in the homeschool crowd that I am with, I do think that a lot of the kids know about it. Um, that being said, um, I fear that not enough are hearing the story at all, let alone, even if it's just, you should go look this up, it's, you know, you should go learn about it. But it's, it worries me, um, because it is, it had such an impact on so many changes that have happened over the decades, and to let it kind of get buried and lost in the background, um, is just a recipe for disaster, bad things. Um, but at the same time, I feel like kids not knowing about it, from my generation, you know, we're only one generation apart, from my generation, us not knowing about it, or even like, oh, it's something that happened in the past, um, to your generation, I feel like there has been so much progress, and you, you know, even if you're in some place that maybe is very bubbled, and doesn't, I'm not gonna talk about that, um, you have access to so much more, like, you know, not to be that old person, but back in my day, you know, we couldn't get on the internet when somebody was on the phone, like, we had all these, you know, obstacles, and you don't have as many now, um, so that is, I think is a good thing, um, and I also, I think it's also very important that you learn about it, because it's, it's not done, you know, the work is not done, um, I still go out in public with my gay AF purse, with all my pins, and my earrings, and my, you know, what a beautiful day to respect somebody's pronouns t-shirt, and I wonder, who's gonna say something, who's gonna, you know, and I think it's very important, because the work is not done, so it's important that, not just learn, oh, this is the thing that happened, but why it happened, what happened because of it, what changed, what still needs to change, and I think it's, it's, it's a way to connect the moms, and dads, and the kids, and the parents, and the nieces, and nephews, because it was, it's our history, too, so it's a way to, to connect, and be able to say, yes, like, maybe it took me until my 30s to realize my sexuality, and my gender identification, and, but at least I can be here, and I can learn with you, um, and Stonewall is definitely one of those key, like, must-read books that you, that you really have to connect to, because it's gonna take all of us, not just, you know, the older generations or the younger generations, it's gonna take all of us, so it's very important that you learn about it, and then learn that the work is not done. I am now here with my second interviewee. Would you guys like to go ahead and introduce yourselves? So, yeah, hi, y'all. My name is Natalie Watson. I use they, them pronouns. Professionally, I am the acting executive director of the LGBTQ Center of Durham. I've been working in nonprofits off and on since 2014, either working, volunteering, or being a part of boards. Outside of work, I am a professional drag king, and I go by the name of Dustin underscore Reams, but anyways, so yeah, I am a drag king outside of work, and then I work as the acting executive director at the center, and I'm actually originally from Durham. I was not born here, but I'm from Durham, and North Carolina is home for me, so thank you for reaching out and asking to do this. I'm really excited. Of course, of course. Now I have to follow that amazing act up. Hi, my name is Rafi Pernsley. I use he, they pronouns. In my professional, I guess, I was gonna say moonlighting, but now it's all the time career, I go by Stormy Day. I am a local drag queen from Durham, North Carolina. The first lie that I will tell you is that I am born and raised in Durham. The second lie is my faith, but I always say that I'm a joy monger. I produce events, both for entertainment, but also educational value as well. I lead a series called Science with Stormy, which takes place in person and on social media in forms of both activities and interactive science lessons, where I teach about how everything is science, and science is everything, to bring the fun, joy, colorful, sim point of view to science. As well, I'm a drag reader and ambassador for National Drag Queen Story Hour, and I love to read for kids. Come on, baby. Shots and kisses. Amazing. I'm very glad to have both of you on here. So, I mean, I might as well get right into it. What is your prior knowledge of the Stonewall Uprising, its causes, and the subsequent events relating to queer women? I'm smiling because this is such a Stormy question, because Stormy does drag and activism, like, presentations. So, I'm going to give my little bit, and then Stormy can give you the entire history and how Stonewall actually influenced her drag name. So, yeah, I actually started learning more about Stonewall back around 2015-ish, 2016-ish. I can't remember when they were getting ready to put out the Stonewall movie, or people had heard about it. And at that time, I was volunteering at the LGBT Center of Raleigh, and I believe there was a documentary that was shown that we had a chance to actually get to learn more information, and then I was in my 20s. So, it's not something I learned. Even at y'all's age, it was something I didn't learn until I was in my 20s, and understood what exactly was happening to the LGBTQ community in the 60s, and they were not allowing us to have public spaces. We were not allowed to congregate and just be around each other. And so, it was the 60s. It doesn't make it right. And there was a lot of raids, and learning more about it was also during a time when I became more involved in activism circles and activism work, and learning more about the history of activism in North Carolina. And so, to know that gay people said, you know what? Enough is enough. We're going to fight back. Because they were being discriminated against. And because of Stonewall, we have pride. But I definitely, I'm excited to hear Stormy answer this question. No, thank you, Dustin. I do. Excuse me, I have to say Dustin. Natalie. I'm in drag family mode. Yeah. So, the Stonewall Inn is one of the earliest, it's not the earliest, but one of the more popular known insurrections of LGBTQ Americans fighting for their rights. Happened in 1969 in New York at the Stonewall Inn. They originally, it was a racket that bars at the time had, because as Natalie pointed out, LGBTQ people did not have space. They were very unlikely to own space, or at least in enough numbers that people could gather. And so, they depended on straight bar owners who were willing to invite LGBTQ patrons in, usually because they could charge them astronomical prices and take advantage of them. And what they would do is they had to deal with the cops. And they would pay the cops off, or the cops would pay them off to allow them to raid their bars, which they know they were actively promoting to LGBTQ people, creating essentially a trap to arrest LGBTQ people. And they would predominantly arrest them on laws of expression, which is why Pride is such a big time about expression as well, is because the original laws that most people would have been arrested under were about dress. Predominantly assigned female at birth people, or at the time female bodied people, I don't know what they would have thought, but wearing pants and slacks and shirts. And yeah, so, and then because of the fighting back and people getting arrested, those who did not get arrested would march every night, was it Thursday? Every Thursday night for a year. So, once a week, every Thursday, would march on that portion of New York in honor of the people who had got arrested. And that's why we now march in honor of that, because of the marching. Bam. And the timing of that. I actually hadn't heard about the marches on Thursday. That wasn't something I saw in my research. So, thank you for bringing that up. I can point you to a lot of really lovely children. How did Stonewall influence your name? Oh, well, my name is based on Storm the character, but Storm A is a drag performer, a drag king, who is from New Orleans, a black performer who was at the Stonewall Inn. And I like it because it's kind of like everyone talks about how drag kings are not looked at. And the conversation has always been that Marsha P. Johnson, a trans black woman who was also a drag performer, was there and she threw the first shoe. That's what they used to say in my day. But then ever since the movie, now they say the brick is the more literal term. But then we know that Storm A was actually there at the Stonewall Inn when the fighting started happening. And as we know, it would have been assigned female at birth people or female body, whatever people, who would have been leading. And drag queens, or drag kings, would have been leading the fighting. Bam. Sorry. So, next question. How do you and your community acknowledge the effects of the Stonewall uprising today through activism, remembrance, celebration, anything like that? So, there's pride. There's all different types of prides, excuse me, prides having all different cities across the world that honors Stonewall. And I think that's the thing that a lot of people don't realize that these pride parades started because of Stonewall. People said, we're going to show up in a public place and we're going to march for our rights and we're going to continue to do this every year. And so, Stonewall has had an international impact. It also, I think, helped spur the LGBTQ rights movement that was occurring alongside the civil rights movement, alongside the women's rights movement. Like all these movements were happening at the same time. Because, you know, culture in America at that time, people were fighting back. The Vietnam War had just started. And, you know, the 60s into the 70s was a huge cultural revolution for the world and people's opinions. The traditional families, the nuclear families, those types of things, people were, you know, challenging those ideas and saying, I don't have to love that way. I don't have to have a family that way. And it's okay. And it's because of Stonewall and because of the pride and because of that and bringing more attention to there are LGBTQ people. We exist. We have families. We have lives. We deserve happiness. Stonewall, because of Stonewall, we were able to bring that to the forefront. And, you know, it kind of sucks because we're still fighting for it today. But it is what it is. And I don't mean that flippantly. I mean, like, we're going to keep fighting. And we will keep fighting for our rights. And specifically in our community, we honor Marsha P. Johnson. And, oh, my gosh, Sylvia Rivera, there you go. Marsha P. Johnson, who was a Black trans woman who was also a drag performer, and Sylvia Rivera, who was also a Latinx trans woman who was also a performer. They helped spearhead a lot of the activism that was happening. A lot of the rights that we have right now are because of people on the margins who fought and put their lives on the line. And, like, that's what occurred. People, there are people who died to fight for these rights. We don't have to get into it, but there was an incident that occurred in New Orleans that speaks to how important space is for the LGBT community and how people would give us the space, but the worst spaces they could find. And we would make them our homes. But it didn't mean that they had emergency exits. It didn't mean that they always had running water. It didn't mean that they had the same thing. So there's a lot of there's been a number of tragedies that have happened in queer spaces because we've had to resort to wherever we can go. So I think Stonewall also brought some light to that. And things still happen, but I think Stonewall brought some light to that as well. But, yes, we honor Sylvia Rivera. We honor Marsha P. Johnson at our Pride, at Durham Pride that the LGBTQ Center of Durham puts on, as well as using quotes, as well as I just specifically I see people coming back to words that Marsha and Sylvia shared. The notion of give them their flowers is in regards to giving black trans women their flowers while they're alive and honoring people while they're alive. And that's something else that I would say Stonewall has left us with is like we need to honor people while they're here. Yeah. Yeah. All that. Yeah. I mean, to highlight what Natalie said, there are still LGBTQ people. We are going through what people somewhat similar or maybe honestly exactly the same. We're losing black trans women every day, trans children, period. So, yeah, that there are struggles that still reflect what our ancestors, our queer ancestors are going through. Like when they say like the median age of a queer person is like mid to 30s to late early 40s. Like that's the median age. That's like 20 years shorter than the average, maybe 30 years shorter than the average human straight people. And we eat a lot of chocolate. So, yeah, chocolate supposed to be really good. They have a lot of anti-oxidant stuff. And you know, you know, LGBT people have a sweet tooth. But to say that there are still battles that we regret. Story hours are being protested currently. People are losing space every single day. We don't own access to land. LGBTQ people like, you know, in the South, we really don't have queer neighborhoods. That's something that we would see in bigger cities that had established queer communities. In the South, we really never had a chance to build those communities because of the ways that which queer people have been, I mean, if anything, a unified hate between many sides. That queer people are disliked by a lot of people. And a lot of people can agree on the removal, erasure, or, you know, death of our people. You mentioned the women's rights movements and the civil rights movements that were going on along with this. So, that brings me to one of my other questions. What impact do you think Stonewall have on intersectionality in the queer community? And how do we view BIPOC members, gender diverse members, and their identity? Because a lot. I mean, what I said earlier, when I mean unified hate, a lot of different cultural groups can agree that LGBTQ-ness is not a part of their ways in which they see the reality of the world, usually because of the basis of religion, but also just because a lot of people do not believe in the existence, or even the struggle. Like, they can believe that we exist, but they don't believe it's that hard for us. I think, one, because of that intersectionality conversation, being Black and in the South, as a queer person, is a much different experience from the rest of the country, because of the fact that the South has had to deal with so much politically indoctrinated, culturally sanctioned division. And that definitely doubles down for queer community. Like, Black people don't have a space, or Black people are being rounded up and housed up, and then you're supposed to be queer and Black, or queer and white, and, you know, get along, get together. I mean, even in the Stonewall movement, and the Pride marches and protests after that, we saw gays and lesbians really fighting against trans people, and trying to erase the trans narrative from the Pride movements, and LGBT cross-dressers as well, drag queens as well, were banned very early on in a lot of Pride marches, because it was seen as inappropriate for children, or salacious, and it was because of people trying to, in the community, wanting to do with respectability politics, and, you know, gently blend into the cultural norms, which is confusing when you think about the entirety of the social justice movement. It's about, like, you know, I'm Black and I'm proud. We're going to be, you know, we are women, hear us roar, and too big of numbers to be ignored. Y'all are all preaching for being visible as you are, how you show up every day, but when we do the same thing, we are wrong and incorrect for it. And then we still see this, you know, Natalie will also tell you as the director, we see this in, you know, the non-profit, for-profit world, people taking from community and, you know, valuing respectability politics over true activism and community work. And I want to say, you know, this notion of intersectionality, while there were people who had it, I mean, it really wasn't a thing that was a part of society's, I was going to say nomenclature, it's society's words. It wasn't a part of societal words until the last 10 years. And so Audre Lorde was one of the first people, a Black lesbian, may she rest in peace, in the 70s who brought these, the ideas of intersectionality together and said, hey, because they were, while she was a Black lesbian, she was also very involved in the women's rights movement. And the women's rights movement had some very deep racial divisions. There was also some very deep divisions between straight women and lesbians. They wanted to distance, the feminist movement in the 70s wanted to distance itself as hard as it could from the idea that they were lesbians because they were feminists. But Audre Lorde was the first to say, hey, Black women, poor women, Latin women, disabled women, all are affected differently. It's pretty weird that happened at the same time. Yeah. They're all impacted differently and more than white women. And we have got to say this, because if we're going to have a women's movement, it's got, and they didn't even, I don't even know necessarily if the word was intersectional, but they were like, we have got to round this out. You cannot sit here and say you're fighting for the rights of women when in actuality, you won't even like have a conversation with a Black woman. You won't even have a conversation with a woman who might be an immigrant and doesn't speak English. Like, no. So Audre Lorde brought that to the attention and there was many scholars after that as well. And the intersectionality piece was really something that came to the forefront in the 2000s and moving up. And it was nice, but it also got to the point where people started confusing what intersectionality meant. And this is just kind of an aside. It's just been interesting watching the ebb and flow of culture and the ebb and flow of society's reaction to things that occur, how we went from huge diversity, equity, inclusion movements to now we're not allowed to have diversity, equity, inclusion, which is wild when you think about the concept of intersectionality. Everything is intersectional. Everything is intersectional. And removing that will not remove the fact that there is still discrimination. There's still oppression. It means something. Me being a Black queer trans person in the South is a much different experience than being a Black person, than being an Indigenous queer two-spirit person. Like, it is different. And folks need to leave room for that. But it also goes to speak to there are divisions within the LGBTQ community that kind of go down racial lines because of a lack of understanding of intersectionality. It means that just because you're LGBTQ or part of a marginalized group does not mean you can't marginalize other people. It doesn't mean that if you're gay and white, you can't be racist. And there are issues that we've dealt with, we are continuously dealing with in the LGBTQ community along racial lines, along gender lines. There are folks who think the T shouldn't be an LGBT. The T helps build movement. So this is kind of like cyclical answering all of your questions. But it's all one big thing, right? The push for like using the term BIPOC, Black Indigenous person of color, using people of color and acknowledging that there are more than white folks. There are more than Black folks. There are a wide variety. So I do want to name that those things have improved and those things. And we do now have even more language to express ourselves. And I think that's huge. But yeah, we've been struggling and fighting to have intersectionality and to have people really understand us since the dawn of time. But in terms of these movements since the 60s and 70s, and we still sometimes come up against stuff. Yeah. The last question I have, unless y'all want to just keep going, but the last question I have prepared is, do you think that younger generations of queer people are aware of so little of the impact it had on the queer community and our fight for equality even to this day? And how do you think we can work to make younger generations more aware of their history? Aware is a really good word. I think it denotes being like you notice it, your senses are picking up on it somehow, but you are not focused on it. And so then I'm like, well, yes, I do think this generation is aware of Stonewall. Like we know that we march to commemorate. Like we know that pride is a celebration of queerness and that there's probably a history behind it. Like at the base level, I think like you asked, but also then I'm also like, what age? Because the whole point that I think we, one of these battles that we've always fought is the disconnect intergenerationally between LGBTQ peoples is the fact that LGBTQ people usually aren't birthing the next generation. Like they don't have direct contact with the next generation of queer people. Like they don't have direct contact with the next generation of queer people because queer people don't make queer people. Straight people make queer people. And so even from the beginning, like, you know, Harvey Milk and what was, I was going to call her Shonda Rhimes. What was that name of that woman that Harvey Milk was fighting? It was Shonda something. I cannot remember. Anyway, that's what it's called. Adida said, not Shonda nothing. Our friends are. But what to say is that villainizing LGBTQ people against children and making it seem like children cannot be queer has been one of those through lines from all of the movements. And so I think in this generation, we have seen that really double down as the focus is that we are not supposed to interact with young people or young people can't be queer or all of those things mixed together. And that is something that, you know, we really have to be diligent about as LGBTQ people is to share, even with me, share with people who my former share with people who are, you know, coming up behind me. We really must connect across generational lines. And, you know, some of that is because we don't have an older generation. Like we do have to name the impact of the HIV AIDS epidemic that is still in existence today. It just does not affect it. It actually affects black women and black people, I think, are the highest rates right now. But anyways, you know, we don't have elders. We lost a lot of people who would have been our elders. And so there are folks, there are LGBTQ people who are in their, like, 40s and 50s who need to know, can I be this and older? Because they don't see that representation. But it's nice to have seen that the younger generation is at least seeing people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. There's trans folks now who are in their 70s. They're able to see them if they're on, like, social media. They're able to see them, you know, in interviews and that type of thing. And so that's a nice change. That's something completely different from when I was a kid. Like, I learned about trans people because of a talk show. And there were folks who were on the Geraldo Rivera talk show in, like, 1989, 90. I know. Well, to be fair, it was, like, 90, 91. I was old enough to be watching it. So I don't necessarily know if the younger generation is aware of Stonewall because of the things that are being done to stop history being taught. And, like, period. Folks are trying to control what history is being shared, which is wild because it happens. It happens. There's proof. And I think with all the technology and while it's a lot to have access to things 24-7, because we do have access to things 24-7, more people are pushing back. More people are saying, yeah, just because you told me I can't read about that doesn't mean that this person didn't exist. So that is something that I'm seeing from the younger generation. I'm seeing the younger generation fight back and say, we might not know everything, but we do want to learn things. I mean, it's not that you reach out to us to do this, right? Like, that says a lot, that you care enough to learn about Stonewall, share this information with your classmates, and then continue on as an adult more aware and having a lens that maybe other people weren't able to have because you took that time. And so that's what I've seen from the younger generation is when they do get that option, when they do get that chance, they will ask those questions. They will be like, can you show me? And so it's wild to think that folks really, they really are trying to keep LGBTQ people away from children. Like, we weren't LGBTQ kids. I knew from an early age, but you don't have to. Not everybody does. Like, LGBTQ people exist. We've existed forever. And so trying to erase the history that exists is a wild, wild notion because the internet does exist. And while there are a lot of half-truths on the internet, you'd be surprised what you can find. And so I always challenge folks, think outside the box, be willing to go to different places and learn outside of your school, outside of your community. Don't wait until college. Now, if you have to, and because you're a parent, whatever. And yeah, fine, wait until college. But yeah, go to some cultural fairs. The Triangle area has a lot, the Triangle and adjacent areas within an hour outside of the Triangle has a lot of opportunities for folks to be involved in cultural things that are free. Tomorrow, there's a, well, on May 19th, there's a powwow at the Dick's, Dick's Park. Sorry. I just, I'm excited. I'm excited about how much- Even by May 19th. I know they're not. I know. So FYI, look out for the Dick's Powwow next year in 2025. Yeah. And there's a queer indigenous black person who helps run that. That's huge. That's so awesome. So yeah, like, keep hope alive. Who said that? John B. Cochran. No, it was one of those, it wasn't John B. Cochran. Keep hope alive. But like, you know, the world's on fire. So you got to find the joy where you can and find your people and find your community and know that like, you know, your life is worth living. Everyone's life is worth living. Don't discriminate and don't oppress and then live your best life. Those are my parting words to the youth. Good, good, good advice to those who live by, I guess. So I think that is all the questions I have prepared. Is there anything else you guys want to say, want to talk about? The LGBTQ Center of Durham has a youth center and we have drop-in hours Wednesdays from 5 to 7. So if folks are interested, the LGBT Center of Raleigh also has a, not intense, pretty robust youth programming. So if you're interested in getting involved in that type of stuff, just reach out to either the Raleigh or Durham centers. June 22nd is OutRaleigh Pride. Pittsboro Pride is June 1st. June 8th is Apex Pride. Yeah, I think I've plugged everything at this point. But yeah, also enjoy the weather, y'all. There's going to be a lot of things outside to do. So get, look, 15 minutes of sun every day on your face and your hands. Okay, now I'm done. All right, well. I guess wear sunscreen. Sunscreen is important. I am Pam, why do you need sunscreen? Wear sunscreen and a moisturizer, you know. It's wonderful to meet y'all. Yes, thank you so much, Ashton. Interviewee who is remaining anonymous. Nice to be here with you. Hi, thanks for having me here. So for my first question, what is your prior knowledge of Stonewall, its causes, and its subsequent events leading to Square Pride? So I don't really know much about Stonewall. I know that it was a riot for the LGBTQ plus community. And I was involved at a gay bar with police involved. But other than that, I do not know much. Awesome. So do you think that the people that around you, the people that you know, and just youth in general, do you think that they know about Stonewall and how it has impacted? Um, I know, because my family, they're pretty, they don't have positive views on the LGBTQ community. Plus, they aren't aren't from America. So they wouldn't know much about American history as other people would like it for if you ask someone else in the classroom, they might answer better. But for me, not a lot of people would know about Stonewall if you ask someone around me.