1996-07_05 Vipassana Retreat, Part 5 of 8 - Q&A 5

Talk: 19960705-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-vipassana_retreat_part_5_of_8-43309 Start_time: 00:54:14 Display_question: Can you say more about clarity and mindfulness? Keyword_search: clarity, mindfulness, concept, example, pinch, depression, intelligent, simple minded, feel, pleasant, unpleasant, neutral, mindfulness, preconceptual, subtle, dramatic, fatigue, violin, verbal, daily, feeling, conscious, training, life, energy, Buddha Question_content: Questioner: I’d like if you could say a bit more about two concepts that you use a lot, both how you recognize the states when you achieve them. Larry: Which states? Questioner: I'll tell you in a second. And also, give examples from your life that might illustrate. One is clarity. And the other is mindfulness. Larry: Okay, I'll start with… To me, they're pretty, they’re the same. Can you pinch yourself right now, hard? Can you feel it? Questioner: Yep. Larry: Can you really feel it? Questioner: Yep. Larry: You just answered both. Did you feel it as you're doing it? You were mindful of the, what does it feel like? Is it pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral? Questioner: It’s slightly unpleasant. Larry: There you go. Look. Okay. That's what it is. You just did it. Questioner: But that doesn’t… maybe if I think about it, it’ll help. Larry: What's there to think about? Thinking about it takes you further away. That's the problem. Too much thinking. Really. Questioner: That's exactly what I'm trying to get my hands about. How to understand a state, not something as concrete and physical and small as being pinched, but the kind of thing we've been talking about… Larry: Like depression. Questioner: Like depression. Or, simply, when you're doing breathing, the calm exercise, you feel very calm… <inaudible> Larry: You’re too intelligent for me. This is for simple minded people, this practice. Okay, but go ahead. Questioner: <inaudible> Larry: Okay. It's not different in principle. Okay, I'll give you a verbal sense of what mindfulness is. Mindfulness is, first of all, it's preconceptual. It has nothing to do with any concepts. Does that make sense? Questioner: Yep. Larry: It's not an idea. It has nothing whatsoever to do with thought. You can be mindful of thought, but that's not thinking, that's mindful. What we're normally doing is thinking. In a moment that you turn to the thinking and are aware of it—admittedly, it's a more subtle energy than the pinch. That's why I picked a simple thing. But it's the same principle. When the mind gets really clear, you can hear your own mind thinking. Does that help? Break_line: Now with depression. Depression is not only a subtle energy—some of it's not so subtle; it's quite dramatic. But where is it? Now, some of that's in the body. That would be similar to the pinching, where you could feel fatigue that was mentioned, or tightness around the heart or the heartbeat has changed, the pulse has changed, et cetera. But also, depression is a mind state. If you go into a doctor's office and they say, “how have you been lately?” and you say,“I've been depressed,” how could you tell the doctor that, a psychiatrist, let's say, or any physician or a family member, you had to know that you felt that way in order to report it. Do you see what I'm? So that, in some, we're all mindful to some degree, all that the Buddha has done is… As human beings, we have this unique ability to be conscious of our life as we live our life out. And we're all living out our life, but we have the ability, and that can be enhanced with training, to live our life out consciously. As we live, we can be really sensitive to what the livingness is all about. It can be felt. Break_line: So, to some degree, you already have mindfulness. Now we're purifying it so that, let's say, depression comes or fear or even gradations of silence, which will be even more subtle and more to, I think, in the back of your question, the mind can get very, very still. In fact, that's the direction the practice goes in. It becomes very still and very spacious. And, as you learn to live in that stillness, you'll see that stillness is highly charged with life. It's a very subtle, it's the most subtle and refined form of life energy. And you can feel the gradations of it. I think the Buddha listed something like twenty six or—don't hold me to the number—different gradations of silence that can be actually known by mindfulness. Break_line: So, mindfulness is non conceptual. Mindfulness only happens in the present moment. That's the only time it can ever happen. Mindfulness is not for or against anything. It has no investment or bias whatsoever. It knows. The job of mindfulness is the knowing. Like a mirror. Okay, now you have that mirror. I have that mirror. Did you hear a bird chirp at all? Did you ever hear a bird chirp? I mean, like today when we were listening? Questioner: Yes. Larry: Okay, you did it. What more do you want? Now. Questioner: (inaudible) Sometimes I find myself thinking about how my feet are feeling on the earth. Other times, I just feel it. Larry: Yes. Questioner: And I guess my question pursue it is, since I tend to think highly verbally, how do I bring mindfulness to my daily life? How do I take this pure feeling? Larry: What pure feeling? You're getting me confused. What do you mean by pure feeling? Questioner: The sense, as you were saying, that… Larry: Okay. Questioner: Different pressures on my feet that talk about different surfaces that they're stepping down on. Larry: Yes. Questioner: That's there and then disappears… <inaudible> Larry: Yes. Questioner: How do I do it? Larry: Yes. Look, let's say a child starts playing the violin at a very early age, and they love it, but their music is not much, but they're really just squeaking away. And then forty years later, they're in Carnegie Hall. They were still playing the violin. That came out of practice, refinement. It's no different than anything else. But what we're refining is our life. We're refining ourselves. Instead of a musical instrument or a particular art form or a craft, what we're doing, so that awareness that you want, you said, “How can I bring it into daily life?” You can't bring it into… What you have to do is continue this practice wherever you are. And the degree to which you do that, it becomes stronger, it becomes more refined, like anything else: like sport, a martial art, a dance. You tell me. It's not different in principle. So, the refinement comes from the engagement, the interest, the application, and it gets clearer and clearer. Sure. Yeah. Okay. End_time: 01:01:48