Art in the Air is a weekly program that covers arts and arts events in Northwest Indiana and beyond. In this episode, they feature Dr. Rob Quick, a director and professor at W. Page Pitt School of Journalism and Mass Communications, who discusses his new book on radio, audio, and podcast production. They also highlight contemporary artist Dorothy Graydon's new exhibit and the 2024 season of Memorial Opera House. The Opera House is undergoing renovation to improve the lobby and seating, and they have a lineup of shows including The Little Mermaid, Beautiful: The Carole King Story, Young Frankenstein, and Scrooge. They are also looking for staff to assist with set design, lighting, and sound. They encourage volunteers to get involved and potentially be paid for their work. Overall, it's an exciting time for the arts in the area.
This week on Art in the Air features director and professor at W. Page Pitt School of Journalism and Mass Communications, Dr. Rob Quick, discussing his new book, Finding Your Voice, in radio, audio, and podcast production. Next, contemporary artist Dorothy Graydon's new exhibit at South Shore Arts through February 25th. Our spotlight's on Memorial Opera House's 2024 season with executive director Megan Stoner. Welcome. You're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM, WVLP 103.1 FM, our weekly program covering the arts and arts events throughout Northwest Indiana and beyond.
I'm Larry Breckner of New Perspectives Photography right alongside here with Esther Golden of The Nest in Michigan City. Aloha, everyone. We're your hosts for Art on the Air. Art on the Air is supported by an Indiana Arts Commission Arts Project Grant, South Shore Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. Art on the Air is heard every Sunday at 7 p.m. on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM, also streaming live at lakeshorepublicmedia.org, and is available on Lakeshore Public Media's website as a podcast.
Also heard on Friday at 11 a.m. and Monday at 5 p.m. on WVLP 103.1 FM, streaming live at WVLP.org, and Tuesdays at 4 p.m. on WDSO 88.3 FM. Our spotlight interviews are also heard Wednesdays on Lakeshore Public Media. Information about Art on the Air is available at our website, breck.com slash AOTA. That includes a complete show archive, spotlight interviews, plus our show is available on multiple podcast platforms, including NPR One. Please like us on Facebook, Art on the Air, WVLP, for information about upcoming shows and interviews.
We'd like to welcome back to Art on the Air Spotlight, the Executive Director of the Memorial Opera House, about their busy season coming up. They have a whole packed season of fun things coming, and so Megan Stoner, welcome back to Art on the Air Spotlight. Thank you, I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, it's nice to see you again. We're so glad to have you. Well, it looks like I'm previewing your season. Of course, you came out of a pretty busy December with concerts and White Christmas and everything like that, and of course, you just had some nice events going on with the Elton John Honky Cats you've just done, and the OK Mega Beatles, which are on all the time.
Tell us about the season you've got planned. Yeah, we have some really wonderful limelights with our youth theater programming. We have some of that coming up, and then we have five really amazing shows for you this year, musical shows. We open our season March 7th with The Little Mermaid, and it's going to be spectacular. We're going to have princesses visiting on Sundays. It's just going to be a really wonderful performance. We're very, very excited. And then in May, we're going to be doing beautiful The Carole King Story, and I can tell you, I've been listening to Carole King's albums kind of nonstop in preparation for this musical, and I cannot tell you how excited I am.
It's really a wonderful, wonderful show. It's a lot of fun, and it's music that's really well known. I mean, Carole King wrote some of the classics, I mean, just some of the greatest music of all time. It's called beautiful for a reason. It sure is. It will be something that, even if you're like, I'm not really sure I like musicals, go see it, because you'll know all the songs, and you'll just leave feeling wonderful. And then this summer, you're going to have to have me back, because I'm going to have a pretty big update about the summer that I cannot tell you yet.
You know, the Opera House is closed, because we're doing our big renovation, but we are going to be off-site, so it's going to be exciting. And then we will come back with a big grand opening with Young Frankenstein the musical, and we close the show with Scrooge the musical. What a perfect season. Oh, that's exciting. So tell us about what's going on with the renovation, so people know what's coming up. Absolutely. So the entryway to the theater is going to look a little different.
If you've ever been there, you know you go through a brick archway, and then you go into the doors. Well, the doors are going to be pushed out into that archway. So you'll just go right in, and we're going to have the whole lobby opened up, so it'll be a much more comfortable space when you come in. We're having all new seating put in, so it'll be a much more comfortable show. The seats are going to be a little bit wider, but, you know, we need that these days.
Yeah, and it's just going to be wonderfully updated, a beautiful space. We're going to be opening it up for all sorts of rentals and fun events, and I'm very excited for the community to come in and see what it's going to be. I'm beyond excited. That sounds great. So you've been there for, what, about not quite six months, maybe about four months? So are you getting into the groove of the job? I think I am. You know, I came on at the beginning of the busy season, so it's been basically just go, go, go, go, go from day one.
And so I've made it through that. I think I'm good to go. I really love it there. The people I work with are spectacular, and the patrons, just, oh my gosh. I love it. I love when everybody sort of, the show has ended, the lights come on, everybody kind of gets up and stretches, and as they're leaving, I get to hear them say things like, this was the greatest show I've ever seen on this stage, or you absolutely made our Christmas with this show, or this was so funny, we were glad we got to be a part of it.
It's just a really remarkable experience. I love it. I saw some posts on Facebook that you were looking for staffing, like designers, scenic designers, so tell us a little about that search. Yeah, so each of our productions, we contract out different people to do directing, choreography, designing sets, designing lighting, and so we hire those positions. They're hired for one show at a time, and we are always looking for people to come and help us design our sets, to get our lighting just right for those really spectacular moments that you look for on stage, all of our sound things.
We do have a wonderful tech director, but it's really hard to do microphones, and sound, and set, and he's one person, and he needs some backup, so what we're looking for is some really lovely backup for our very talented staff, and so it's a really great opportunity, and even if people aren't sure they know exactly what it is, you know, what is a set designer? I encourage you to come volunteer, check it out, and then, you know, work on a couple shows, and the next thing you know, we'll be paying you.
Well, and it's always good to get paid, and everything like that, so ... We're excited, but you know, it's at least something. It sounds like you've got a lot going on there, and you're kind of into the job, and we definitely will have you back as we get further along. You can update us on what's going on with the renovation and everything like that, so anyway, why don't we wrap up and tell us, again, recap what shows, show dates, and how to get in touch with the Memorial Opera House, how to find them online.
Absolutely, so you can find us online at memorialoperahouse.com, and we're opening March 7th with The Little Mermaid. We go into beautiful The Carole King Story in May, and then this fall, we have Young Frankenstein, the musical, and we're going to close our season with Scrooge, and we're very excited, and we look forward to seeing you all in our seats. Well, we appreciate you coming on Out of the Air Spotlight. This is Megan Soner, the new executive director, still kind of new, breaking in the whole place, and we have renovations going on that they're excited to show.
Great show season coming up, and we're going to have her back, of course, to bring us more updates on that. Megan, thank you so much for coming on Out of the Air Spotlight. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for the update. Out of the Air Spotlight and the complete one-hour program on Lakeshore Public Media is brought to you by Macaulay Real Estate in Valparaiso, Oval Patrician Senior Broker. And as a reminder, if you'd like to have your event on Out of the Air Spotlight or have a longer feature interview, email us at aotaatbrech.com.
That's aotaatbrech, B-R-E-C-H dot com. This is Pledge Week for your public radio station, and Art on the Air encourages our loyal listeners to support this station by making a monthly sustaining pledge so we may continue to bring you this great program. This is Peter Marks, retired theater critic of the Washington Post, and you're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM and WVLP, 103.1 FM. We would like to welcome Dr. Rob Quick to Art on the Air.
Rob is a leading authority in the field of audio production and the founder of the global event College Radio Day and co-founder of World College Radio Day, which began in 2011. He is also a professor and director of the W. Page Pitts School of Journalism and Mass Communications at Marshall University, West Virginia. His debut book is Finding Your Voice in Radio, Audio, and Podcast Production. It empowers aspiring audio creators. Thank you for joining us on Art on the Air.
Aloha and welcome, Rob. It's very nice to meet you. Esther and Larry, thank you ever so much for having me. Well, we're glad to have you, and of course this is what we do, too, but we thought it'd be interesting to share with our audience. We take a broad definition of art with our show, but we also want to find out more about our guests and your origin story, which from what I can glean from the book is very interesting, but I would like to ask how you got from where you were to where you are now.
So tell us all about yourself. Thanks, Larry. So you can tell from my accent that I'm obviously not originally from America, and right now I'm in West Virginia working at Marshall, and I've just moved from New York, so I've still got my New York plate. So when I stop and get gas, some people often say, well, hey, are you from New York? And I say, well, yes, I am. And then they say, well, hang on, that isn't a New York accent.
And then I say, well, this is a long story. And so it does go back to I was born in England and raised there, and I guess I first dabbled because I'm into audio and radio, and I first dabbled in England at that time. They didn't have anything like college radio, which would have been a first step. So the very first experience I got of doing any kind of radio was working at hospital radio. They don't have a college radio station, so hospital radio is what they do have.
And it was downstairs in the basement of this hospital, Haddonbrook's Radio. So if you could handle the occasional dead body going past on its way to the morgue, you know, if you could handle that, then you were cut out for going down there and doing radio. And from there I really got smitten with the idea of creating radio programming. I went to Oxford University, and at that time there was no college radio anywhere. Well, they had a few closed-circuit stations, but no FM stations.
So I was part of a group that founded the first ever FM college radio station in the history of the UK at Oxford, and we launched it. So upon then, I was sort of off to the races, but that was really how it began. And we got the license in the UK, and we launched it in 1997, and really changed my life, I'd say. I mean, that's like the early days, Larry. So Rob, what about, you said, what was that first idea for programming that you had when you became intrigued with radio? Well, I think the power of radio, which remains obviously to this day, is the idea that you can connect with that listener, that it's a very unique, intimate medium.
Yeah, I think my question was, I think I'm meaning more like, did you have an idea of what you wanted to say at first on radio? No, I think I didn't. I think I thought I had an idea of what radio was all about because of what I listened to. And I thought, I imagined that you go in there, you play songs, and you try and be a personality. And I think, looking back now, this is, I think, still to this day, what a lot of my students do, is that they're not really sort of being themselves, they feel that immediately from day one, they've got to be sort of performative, to a certain extent, they've got to be larger than life, they've got to be this personality.
So that was me, you know, I was just a young kid playing songs and trying to, you know, entertain people, if you will. Dialing back, what early influences do you have, like in radio and listening yourself? You know, of course, I think most people are familiar with BBC, I know, you'll maybe laugh at this, I was a BBC listener, by short, via shortwave for a long part of my life before you became readily available over like our NPR stations.
But what was your early radio taste? And, you know, obviously, that spurned your interest. Tell us about that. Yeah, absolutely. So going up in the UK, you said you had two choices, really, you had the BBC, which is this huge, monolithic institution that blankets the UK and then the world with the World Service. And I listened to Radio One, and then of course, you had local commercial radio stations, and then towards the end of my stay there, national commercial radio stations like Virgin Radio.
But for me, the BBC, the local BBC stations like BBC Radio Cambridgeshire were pretty amazing. I remember getting in trouble because my parents were very worried about me, because I was listening to radio, and I should be doing homework and leaving at night, I'd be like listening under the blankets, under the covers, to my little portable radio set, and sort of enthralled with this wondrous medium, that even I might my bed in darkness could hear this voice.
And I knew the studio for local BBC station was down the road, really, like 10 minutes away. And I just was like someone right now staying up late, and they're talking to me, they're doing this for me for the listener. And that for me, just the wonder of that, that that sort of idea that I could hear someone real time in the same city as me, I've always been a fan of local radio, rather than national radio, because of that sense of being connected to what's going on around.
But yeah, so those early memories, I think really resonated with me. So lovely. So you got continue your journey into education, you studied at Oxford, and then I guess what I'm curious, like, what brought you to the States? So okay, so when I was at Oxford, I, I had a girlfriend, and she was from America. And basically, my wife is originally from Kansas, we had a romance at Oxford. And then, at the end, after graduating, we did get married, actually.
And we lived for a while in America, and I was really homesick. And then we lived in London for a little bit. And I was doing radio, they're producing stuff, freelance for the for the BBC. And then we got home, my wife got homesick for America. And we moved out to live in Chicago originally, which is where I began at this university called St. David University as director of student media and went into this sort of this place where the radio station was was run down and the newspaper was actually pretty good newspaper, but the university solicited Well, good luck, see what you can do.
And students were kind of demoralized. And this is actually what I've noticed is this is a similar situation I've encountered actually in many places now where important as it is student media often is underfunded, underappreciated, undersupported. But so we started out in Chicago in 2002. But that's why I'm here. My wife is American, which is why I'm here to this day. Excellent. Well, and that's something that even though you're on the edge of it, you're in a number three media market DMA, that's pretty impressive.
So to be part of that, I mean, we're, we're in a situation with our station here, Lakeshore Public Media is, and recently, we just upgraded to five kilowatts. And so we're actually well into terrestrial wise into Chicago, but part of that. So well, excellent. And then your move from the Chicago area where what happened there? Right. So then after a while, and don't get me wrong, it was really very successful, what we did at St. Xavier and the station was WXCV.
And we ended up winning. I didn't know sometimes ignorance is wonderful. So I entered us into the Silver Dome Awards, the Illinois Broadcasting Association. Apparently, college stations don't do that. That's for the professionals. But I thought I didn't know. So I put us in for best public affairs program. You know, we didn't win first place, but we came second, and this is against the majors. And for best public affairs program in the third place was WGN.
And they their budget, I can tell you, our budget was 10,000 years, theirs was millions. But that's what I knew that college radio, and community radio space as well is, is pretty good. It can sometimes compete with the big names, the big stations, because it covers stories and creates content that they don't, perhaps, and has its finger on a different pulse that is really tied to the local community, and will cover stories and create programming that other stations will not.
So that, for me, was the movie moment when we beat WGN. And people were like, wow, what did you just do? This tiny little station, you shouldn't even be in these awards. And then after that, I went to William Patterson University, and the same story, entering a station that they said, you've got two years to turn it around. Otherwise, we might just shut it down. And we were like, what? This is in New Jersey, you know, 30 minutes from Manhattan, number one media market.
And being general manager of that station and teaching there, being a professor. And for me, the thrill always has been is sort of awakening a sense of purpose, a sense of enthusiasm, and just waking the students up to the possibilities as to what they could do. So, you know, again, I moved here to West Virginia just last year, because I did 16 years at William Patterson. But in that time, we won all these awards. But the big thing for us was winning the two Marconi awards for best non-commercial station.
And then they created a new category of best college radio station. But the non-commercial stations, we were up against all stations, including, obviously, NPR and community radio stations. And it was the same thing, again, is that we went going into a situation where it seemed that it was almost without hope. And we had an engineer at the time. And he said, I've been through five or six general managers, good luck, we'll see how long you last.
And there was a sense of like, there should have been a there should have been a sign on the door, abandon hope all ye who enter. But at the same time, what I sort of discovered was, the students have a lot to say, they are genuinely passionate, if you can find that way, and you can encourage them, and you can find a way to unlock the door to them communicating. And that's what I think we did do when we were in New York, New Jersey.
Now I'm obviously here, running the School of Journalism and Communication with this legendary radio station WMUL. So that really is hopefully haven't bored your listeners. But that is my my journey. But what's fueled that journey is the realization that everybody, if they want to have the motivation is capable of producing quite remarkable content, and in this case, audio content. So Rob, during that timeframe, Chicago to New York, is that did had you started writing the book, or had it come into your mind that, you know, I'm having some successes and some great successes.
And is that when you started writing? Esther, that's an excellent point, because I think it was a series of realizations. And I think, and I say this, in a way not to sort of criticize anyone who teaches audio and radio. But I think the way that we have been teaching radio and audio in the classroom has not been the best way, can I put it like that, I don't want to be too critical. Because what we do is we sit these kids down, and I teach, you know, 1520 kids in a class, audio and radio production podcasting now.
And it has been the model is here's the syllabus, here's the equipment, here's what you need to do. And very quickly, they're sort of the students are thrown in, you know, they find themselves in front of a microphone, which can be quite an intimidating situation to be in anyway. And they've been told to hit, you know, here we are now entertain us, go ahead and create audio content. And I just realized that the big realization what my book is about is that actually, that's too much pressure to begin.
I sent you my book, I realized that most of us just have two modes, really, we'd have develop and deliver. And, you know, a lot of students normally get involved with college radio or community radio, or they do a podcast or perhaps an internship, and they're immediately developing content, they're immediately developing material, and then they're delivering it, right. So then they're broadcasting it on the air. And that can be great. Don't get me wrong, that can be great, because I'm a big advocate of college radio is, you know, it is performative, it's audience centered, it's, you're doing those things in public, and you're sharing your voice and you're sharing your content.
And if you do it professionally, then you're getting getting paid to do that. And you're, you're, you know, you're delivering content, and you're getting paid as a job. But the flip side to that is, you know, the other side of that is, you're having to meet audience expectations, any mistakes you make might be shared publicly. And, and, and if you get particularly if you get a job in media, that is certainly a now a life of obligation, with to a certain extent, perhaps limited creativity, working on things that you might not be particularly happy about, and certainly have pressure to deliver.
So the realization was there so that there's got to be another stage here, because that's too much too soon. And when I say to the students in the beginning of the semester, how many of you want to do radio and audio? And, you know, professionally, let's consider it as a career, you know, one or one or two, will put their hands up thinking why is such a small, small number. Whereas if we take a different approach by the end of semester, if I say he wants to consider doing this professionally, if we've approached this the right way, and we presented this the right way, then you're going to get four or five, six, maybe more hands going up, because they will be excited to create audio.
And that's when I realized there was a key missing stage. The difference in your book is that it kind of tells story wise, success stories, and you share that, but you also, it's not a technical book. And I think what you were trying to say is that the a lot of teaching this type of thing, whether it's in broadcasting is like, well, this is what you do with this, this is the equipment, without talking about what's what you need to do to develop the content.
I mean, I like your four D's discover, developer, deliver and decoder. And of course, you have your other one real, where you have that, that whole development. And you know, tell us about that what real is in terms of audio content. Yes, so as you're right, so the missing stage was discoverer. And that is doing the work when you discover that basically, you're creating content for yourself, not for an audience. And that's a crucial, crucial thing.
Because there's this great book that I read by Srinivas Rao, who wrote a book called an audience of one reclaiming creativity, creativity for its own sake. And in that he writes, when we seek approval from others, when we start creating for an audience, we feel compelled to suddenly start pleasing them. We dedicate our efforts to making the opinions of others towards this favorable. And that that's the key thing is that when the students were doing no discoverable, they weren't discovering who they are, learning about who they are, what they have to say, what do they believe in the exercises in the book all about that, you know, what are your earliest childhood memories, who had the biggest influence on you, who taught you right from wrong? What are you know, where do you come from? What do you believe tell about your and what I was doing exercises with the students.
And again, you're right, you're absolutely right. And that that Larry, the importance here is not about equipment. In fact, I say in the book, which is almost heresy. And in order to start creating content, you just need a smartphone and a coffee mug. And people might say, why coffee mug? Well, there's your mic stand. And just make sure there's nothing in it. But if you do this, if you go from discovering you do this work, and it's not for the audience, then when you become a developer, when you start creating content for an audience, it's you're going to have that much more to say, because you've done the work in knowing who you are, you've got the solid foundation of self identity.
And I argue that and then if the final stage course is decoded that often we create content, we don't go back to it, we don't under don't listen to it. And because students say it's just horrible listening to it. Well, let's understand why did it work? Why did it not work? And so when when you go back to something, sometimes you can discover and what was what didn't work. And I and I made the argument in the book.
And it's a little bit hard to grasp. But you kind of know it if someone's been through this process, and they know who they are, they're in touch with who that who they are themselves. And then the audio that they're going to create is relatable, engaging, authentic and liberating the sense of genuine authenticity to what they are producing on the air that can only come from someone who's done the necessary work on themselves to find out what who they are, what they believe and without that students go into jobs or they get involved immediately, sometimes can suffer from imposter syndrome.
Like I don't deserve this. I don't know really who I am. I know who I am in this role. And certainly I've had students who've done radio programs and podcasts, who say, wow, sometimes we just run out of things to say we have a half hour podcast that is excruciating, you know, seconds feel like minutes, minutes feel like hours, where you've got nothing to say. And the microphone is in front of you. If you don't know who you are, there is just this incredible pressure and the sort of excruciating sense of what we do.
So that's why the book encourages you to play with abandon, make audio, be creative, make artistic audio. Don't think about a documentary or news bulletin or even an interview. Go out there, one of the early exercises, you just go out into your neighborhood and record different sounds without voices. The sounds of the local park of cars rushing by, just put together a montage, just creatively play with abandon and experiment with what you can do just to understand the range.
Well, do you think or feel that their initial hesitation when you posed the radio question to them was live radio versus now pre-recorded? Because it's, you know, vastly different. Absolutely. And this is the thing, again, I'm a huge advocate of college radio, having found a college radio day. And I do believe that the college radio is fantastic, but that's why I think if you're already doing something like college radio, you've got to do the discoverer work alongside.
It would be preferable if you did it before you get involved in those things. But I do think we perhaps, students perhaps have in their mind what they have to do and they don't understand there are so many different ways you can create audio content, not just a podcast, but I think experimental audio, soundscapes and artistic audio is obviously just as valid as traditional things like what we're doing right now, like this podcast and radio show.
So I think the students need to be, they just need to have their minds opened to understand what the possibilities are and to get excited by those possibilities. And I want to say student, I don't just mean students, I mean anyone, anyone of any age who says, well, I might want to try and create a podcast, I might want to try and do something. But even if they don't, even if they don't produce content for any audience, there's real value, meaningful value in terms of finding your voice and what that means, discovering who you are, knowing what you believe and what you have to say.
There's a lot of value in going through the exercises in the book and understanding that this is very, very good for your own self-development, let alone for an audience. Right. Artistic expression in any form. Completely. So important. Yeah. And while the book is obviously written as a textbook for a classroom, I believe that anyone that's interested in doing, and audio becomes part of production of everything, you know, in lots of presentational situations that may not be broadcast or live as a podcast.
And of course, I use a saying all the time, and I do this when I pledge, I'm sure you're familiar with Studs Terkel. And I say this during pledge drive, but I also say it otherwise, is with radio, you're talking to one person. And then, of course, the line I use after that is, I'm talking to you right now, make a pledge and everything. But also Vince Scully said something very interesting is that radio, unlike visual media, is like an associate.
So you'd be painting the garage or doing something else. And it's kind of like an associate with you. So radio does have that part there. So, you know, I want to ask you, and we only have a couple minutes left about the future of terrestrial radio. There's been some challenges in all the way around. I just think I told you about before the broadcast about in Chicago, the conglomerate there is filing for Chapter 11 and everything.
What do you see the future of with all the competing ways to get audio content? You know, it's an excellent question, isn't it? I still believe that a station's mission has, you have to be fiercely local, and you have to serve your listeners where they are, meet them where they're at, talk about what they're doing. When I first had my first ever professional gig in commercial radio in the UK, I would go to the local cafe every morning and listen in, sort of eavesdrop to, in the greasy spoon cafe to what people were talking about, the, you know, the issues of the day.
And I do think that podcasting is, of course, a form of radio owes its existence to radio. I think there has to be a strong affiliation as much as possible. And there needs to be this feeling again, capture the audience excitement that you need to listen to this because you're going to hear things that are going to be so interesting and so important and so relevant to you that you're not going to want to, you're not going to want to miss out that feeling of missing out.
We need to sort of recommit ourselves to engaging with issues that really matter to our audience. So that means being in touch with who they are and what they, what they want, what they believe, their worldview, and connecting in that way. And then college radio is the same thing. College radio needs to continue doing that. But I think as long as we are creating content that is relevant and well put together, there will always be an audience, you know, radio has gone through struggles, but it's not going to die.
It's not going to die. It's still the most listened to medium in the country. So I know it's been through some tough times, but it's still very, very, very much alive. We want to give you a chance to let people know how they can find out about you and find about your book. Yep. So you can go to robquick.com. The book is finding a voice for radio, audio, podcast production available everywhere books are sold. Well, we appreciate you coming on out in the air, sharing your audio and radio journey with our audience.
And that's Rob quick. And again, the book is finding your voice in radio, audio and podcast production. Thank you so much for coming on out of the air. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. It was so interesting. Art of the year listeners, do you have a suggestion for a possible guest on our show? Whether it's an artist, musician, author, gallery, theater, concert, or some other artistic endeavor that you are aware of, or a topic of interest to our listeners, email us at aotaatbrek.com.
That's aotaatbrek.com. This is Hannah Hammond-Hageman of Chesterton Art Center, and you're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM and WVLP 103.1 FM. We are happy to welcome back Dorothy Graydon to Art on the Air. Dorothy is a contemporary artist whose art is inspired by ancient visions, prehistoric art of the Americas. Her mission is to bring awareness of these amazing places and to promote preservation and protection of ancestral lands on this continent, most of which are considered sacred to Native Americans.
She also enjoys a different landscape and is an enthusiastic scuba diver. That environment also features prominently in her art. Thank you for joining us on Art on the Air. Aloha and welcome, Dorothy. It's so great to see you again. Thank you. Thank you both. It's good to be here again. It is, and the last time we had her on was November 16th of 2018, and you can hear that actually on our website. And we did repeat it, I think, in 2020 when COVID first started, and we didn't have a show to do because the studio was closed.
But, and of course, I know Dorothy too from the area artists and things like that. But welcome back to the show. And we just want to catch up with you and have our audience do that. But maybe to do that, because people probably haven't heard that show, we like to hear your origin story. I always like to see how you got from where you were to where you are now. So tell us all about your journey growing up, where you grew up and everything like that.
Oh, all that. Oh, all the way back, way back. Okay. I grew up in Gary, Indiana, on 8th and Tennessee Street. And it was a lovely street because it was multicultural. We had people living there from all over. So I was introduced to many different kinds of foods, and many different kinds of cultures just living on Tennessee Street. And one of the things I really liked to do was go up and down the alleys and collect boards.
And I would bring the boards home and paint and paint on the boards. That was what I did when I was little. And my older brother, who's 11 years older than I am, he would always say, Oh, I just love your art. And he'd give me like 20 cents and put the art up in the house somewhere. So I guess I started doing art a long time ago. And then when I was in elementary school, the teachers always had me do their bulletin boards.
They'd say, Okay, let's, you know, do something nice on the bulletin board. So that's kind of how it got started. Very sweet beginnings. So your brother was supportive, but so were there a lot of art supplies in the household? It sounds like maybe the whole household was supportive of creativity. Well, it was. My mother was an artist, and she didn't sell her work or anything. She just did a lot of art, did a lot of oil painting.
And so we had, we had lots of paints in the house all the time. All the time. Okay. And so in school, you were doing bulletin boards. And did you have any someone in school like art teachers or anything that really saw your talent and guided you with that? No, it was, it was all independent. We didn't really have art classes when I was in school. They would just give us a piece of paper and some crayons and say do something, you know, that kind of thing.
Yeah, same for me. We didn't have our classes. I think I remember my first art class. My first real art class was seventh grade, maybe when there was an actual and then it was it wasn't like there is now there wasn't ceramics, there wasn't it was primarily drawing, I think. Just crayons and paper, pretty much. Pretty much. One of my favorite things was to color the whole the whole paper with all these wild colors and then do the black crayon on top of it.
I still like working in black. I love working in black. So I really want to know about and I'm probably jumping way ahead probably. But I've always been fascinated that you're a scuba diver. So is that a family sport? No, not at all. I learned how to swim at Emerson High School when I was about six years old. And I've just been swimming ever since. And I, I love the ocean. I never I didn't see the ocean till I was 10 years old.
But I don't know what happened was my daughter turned 18 and I just said, okay, let's let's go take scuba diving lessons. And so my daughter and my husband and I took lessons here in Valparaiso. And our first trip was in Cozumel. And we did our open water certification in Cozumel. And it's just like, it's so wonderful to jump off that boat and take your first breath underwater. And it's like, I'm breathing under the water. This is amazing.
So that's, that's the most that's a very exciting part of scuba diving. That transition is such a mental one too. I find like whenever I snorkel to that first initial switching environment is, it's sort of a difficult transition for me. I mean, because it has to, I have to go through this whole mental process. Yeah, I get that. It's otherworldly. It's almost surreal. You know, when you get when you get totally immersed down there and you start seeing all the creatures that live there and the coral and the colors are just any color you could possibly think of.
That's what you see are all the colors. And time and space just sort of disappears. You know, yeah. That's probably where divers get into trouble. You lose time and you don't pay attention to how much air you've got left because you get lost in that world. It's like, oh my gosh. So. Absolutely. Yeah. So let's dial back. You go through school and what made you, what'd you do post-graduation from high school? You know, did you make a decision right away to go to art or did you have something else in mind? No, actually, because of our family situation, my father had died.
I needed to get through college as quickly as possible. And so I, and to get out and get a really good, just a job right away. So I, I got a degree in teaching and then I went immediately into, I graduated in three and a half years and then immediately went into teaching. And what was your subject? Was it art? Elementary education. Elementary education. I gather the little children's unto me. It's a different thing than secondary.
And my favorite subject, of course, was art. I have art classes. How many years did you do that? Take art classes? No, no. How many years did you teach? Oh, teaching. Oh dear. About 25 years. I taught for about 25 years. Okay. And then? And it's really fun teaching kindergarten because they're so creative. You know, I just would throw a bunch of papers and junk on the tables and say, create something wonderful. And they do. They're, they're not afraid to do that when they're that age.
Especially when you add tape. I'm like kindergarteners always love tape. Tape is very important. In fact, we, I, I asked the parents to send boxes to school and, and masking tape. So the kids would get on the bus with these gigantic structures that they made and painted. And I had one mother, I had one mother tell me, she said, would you please stop making the box, the box structures? Because my, my whole family room is full of my daughter's boxes.
They made all kinds of interesting things with the boxes. So after 25 years and probably even overlapping that, did you study any art formally or just kind of developed it on your own? And then the second part of that question is what made you discover the kind of art that you do in out West, the hieroglyphs and things like that? Um, let's see. I took, I did not get a degree in art. Um, I took many, many classes at universities at VU.
I took art classes. Um, I had private lessons, um, in, in this area with Conrad Justel. Um, I had private lessons in Indianapolis. I've taken classes at, uh, Museum of Contemporary Art in Chicago. Um, so. What type of classes, Dorothy, are they mostly drawing, painting? Painting, lots of painting, um, drawing, uh, marble, different kinds of marbling, like suminagashi, the Japanese marbling, uh, clay classes. Uh, yeah, things, I just, you name it. I took all kinds of classes.
Plus I did a lot on my own, you know, with weaving and, and like the macrame kinds of things. Um, so yeah, I've taken many, many classes. I took a Chinese calligraphy class at VU and just, just, uh, on and off different kinds of classes. It's really interesting because you can feel all of that in your work. So like all these experiences have gone into your work. They really have. Yeah. You can clearly always see, like when you post something out there, I can, you can instantly just know that it's your work.
You have a distinctive style, even though they're all, the, the pieces are different. You can say, oh, I, that's Dorothy's work. You can, you can use, you've developed that where you can do that. So what drew you to, um, like the Out West and, uh, all the things that you do incorporate into your thing with, uh, that. My sister was living in Houston for 20 years and I'd go out to visit her. And then, and then what we started to do was go farther West and, um, we started visiting, uh, the Anasazi, well, it's not Anasazi, it's Histatsinam sites.
And, uh, and all the different, uh, ancestral homes that are out there. And I started seeing the carvings on the wall and I thought, oh my gosh, these are wonderful. It kind of reminded me of Moreau or Paul Klee. And, uh, also kind of reminded me of the kindergartners that I was teaching at the time, even though they're much more sophisticated than, uh, kindergarten things. But, uh, I, I just started looking at them and, and some were painted, which are pictographs.
Some are, are, are text or carved, and those would be petroglyphs. And I was just totally fascinated by them. And just every time I go out West, we would go and visit sites. So we visited sites in Texas and Arizona and New Mexico and every, every state up there, Utah. And then it was really funny because I was really excited about these things. And then I took one trip up into Wyoming to the Wind River area and saw the creepiest petroglyphs that I had ever seen.
And, and they were, they were spooky and scary and they were up where they have the hot springs up in the mountains. And we were 10,000 feet up and I just got chills looking at these petroglyphs. And, and then we talked to some people that were at a resort, um, across the lake and there were petroglyphs there too. And I was asking them about the petroglyphs and they, and I said, do you ever go down and see them at night to see if they look different? And they said, Oh no, we never go down there at night.
They said, there's so many weird sounds that come from those things at night that we just avoid, we just avoid them at night. And that just got me more interested in them actually. And so I came home from that trip and thought, you know what? I have to start drawing these things. So I had a lot of photographs that I took of these petroglyphs and I guess the Shoshone Indians used these boulders for their own mythology, even though they came to this, they went to that area much later.
These, these things were carved, that were carved were maybe 8,000 years old. And so I started drawing them and I started drawing like small drawings of, of them, but embellishing and changing and just use them as examples for, for the creepiness that I wanted to put on paper. You're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM on WVLP 103.1 FM. So can you describe what you mean? Is it, was it heavily patterned? Was it animal? Was it human-based? What, what were the, what was the running themes, I guess? Okay.
Well, some of them look like, like birds, kind of like birds, because up to 10,000 feet, you see a lot of birds, like eagles and owls and things like that. So the power supposedly in the petroglyphs came from the animals that lived up there. And so most, most of them just look like, they don't look like people or animals. They just look like creatures, have more of a creature look. If you go to my website and go to the black and white gallery, you'll see the ones that I, that I started with, just the black and white.
I know that's the first work that I saw was the black and white. And that's why I wanted to have you on today too, because from those early, from those early beginnings that I saw, boy, it's in a whole new place now. But you know, all those weird creatures still come out, you know. Yes, they do. They're in me somehow. And even if I try and do something else, it always turns into whatever it looks like, one of my paintings.
Right now I'm working on layers of, layers of painting where, you know, you have the, the bottom of the paper is one color and then, and then the next color comes above it and then all the way to the top with different patterns on each layer. And it's, and I think that that comes from seeing all the layers that I, that I saw, say in the Grand Canyon or all the rocks and the rock walls. And so there's so many different layers.
So I'm kind of getting into the layer thing right now, which is pretty exciting. So how do you, how do you approach the whole process of, how does it come into fruition? So are, you know, can you be reading a book and all of a sudden you have an idea? Is it when you sit in front of the paper? Just, just how does it come about? Well, it comes about from the, like a lot of the photographs that I've taken in the past in the past are in me.
And so they get transformed and they end up on paper. And also when I travel, you know, like when I was in, down by the Rio Grande last year, there were, I saw layers, layers of strata of the rocks. So there was like a black layer and then a red layer and a brown layer and a white layer. And so I started really thinking about the layers that are there. Plus the layers of the art, you know, like something that was carved 12,000 years ago, and then somebody 8,000 years ago put something on top of that.
And then 2000 years ago, somebody put something on top of that. And then I started thinking about the ocean and all the layers of the ocean. Like some animals live at the, at the very surface, and then some live two feet down and some stay in 30 feet down. And then you get way down to the bottom and you see different creatures in different layers. And so it's, it's just really exciting to see that. And so now everything I look at is layers.
I look at the forest, you know, with the ground and the bushes and the trees and the sky. And so I'm, I'm really excited about that right now. I know. And that's the shift in your work that I, you know, called you about, because you can, I mean, it is, it's like very dense, and it's, it's so beautiful to visually go through it as well. Yeah, it's really, it's really exciting. Yeah, it is exciting. And then the other inspiration comes from travel, because I try to travel to places that have prehistoric images.
And last year, I was in South Korea, and there's this town called Gyeongju there. And they have mound, they have, they have, they have burial mounds in the city that are as long as a football field. And some of them are open, so you can go inside and see the layers of how they buried the king, kind of like Egypt. And so you can see how the first layer is, you know, wood, and then the next layer is rocks.
And so, and then, and then I'm hoping, and so all of a sudden, all these mounds started showing up in my art. And I didn't realize it until I looked at the picture that the mounds were coming from this, from Gyeongju, which was pretty, which was pretty cool, actually, to see that it's, when I see something, it kind of filters through me and comes out on the paper. So your exhibit at South Shore and, and that'll be going on in February, is it going to be a retrospective? Or it is, is it primarily this new work? A lot of it is new work.
The layers just started about three months ago, so I don't have a lot of layers. But I do have some mounds in there. But most of the work is fairly new, which I would say within the past two years. Now, I noticed in your biography, that some of your photographs have also been published in the, in the journal Quest. And has been also your, some of your work has been like in Russia and things. So tell us a little bit about that.
Well, Quest doesn't exist anymore. But I did have some, some of my photographs published in Quest when it was around. And, and what was the other one? Well, and also that you've, your things have been presented, I think, in what, Russia and other places, Moscow. You gave a lecture there, didn't you? Yeah, I gave a lecture in, in Moscow and one in, in Innsbruck, Austria. And, and then I give, I give talks all around this area too.
I gave one at Paul Henry Gallery, Paul Henry's Gallery in Hammond. And I gave one on February 12th at the Performing Arts Center in Munster, because my show is up there right now. Right. And it's until February 25th. Sure. Is there any art that you have not explored that you want to? Like if you say, oh, gee, I've done this, I've done this. And, you know, you're now in this new layer thing. But is there something like, gee, I'd really like to do something else? Is there been something like that you want to be challenged by? Yeah, I'm really interested in wax.
I'd like to do something with cold wax or hot wax with layers of, more layers, of using, using wax with, with color, wax with colors. So you can see through the wax to the colors that are underneath. That's really what I'd like to get into right now. And I'm also doing a lot with sand right now, because I hike with a Hopi woman. And she gives me sand from the, from the reservation, because she loves my art.
And so she gives me brown sand and white sand. So I've been doing a lot of work with the sand. And the sand is amazing, because it actually influences what goes on the paper, because the sand moves the paint in different ways. And there's some details I cannot get because the sand is there. So I have to adjust my art to the sand. So the sand actually leads the painting. And my friend said, she's, she has seen a couple of my sand paintings.
And she said that, that the ancestors are, are within me and leading me into the painting, which I thought was a real compliment. It's like the Tibetan sand painting that they do, the Buddhist monks do. I don't know if you've seen ever, they do that, do this intricate thing. And then after it's all done, they blow it away. They do, they put it in the river. Well, mine's a little too hard to put in the river.
But, but it's, it's a lot of fun. I love working with the sand. It's one of my favorite things to do. Wax, I'd love to do some. I need to watch some YouTube videos or something. In our last moment here, we want people to find out how they can find out about you online. Social media and your exhibits running through the 25th at Atrium Gallery, South Shore Arts and the Center for the Performing Arts. But how can they find you online and get in touch with you? Well, I have a website, which is DorothyGradin.com.
And I also am on Facebook and Instagram under my own name, Dorothy Gradin, or Dorothy Gradin Artist sometimes too. Very good. Well, we appreciate coming back on the show after several years that we see each other at events out there. So that's Dorothy Gradin. Her new exhibition is somewhere in time at the Atrium Gallery, South Shore Arts, the Center for the Performing Arts. And you can still get your 20 paintings that are there all the way through February 25th.
And so thank you so much for coming on Art on the Air. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you both. We'd like to thank our guests this week on Art on the Air, our weekly program covering the arts and arts events throughout Northwest Indiana and beyond. Art on the Air is heard Sunday at 7pm on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM, also streaming live at LakeshorePublicMedia.org and is available on Lakeshore Public Media's website as a podcast.
Art on the Air is also heard Friday at 11am and Monday at 5pm on WVLP, 103.1 FM, streaming live at WVLP.org. If you have a smart speaker like Amazon Alexa, Google Assistant, or Apple Siri, just tell it to play Art on the Air to hear the latest episode. Our spotlight interviews are heard every Wednesday on Lakeshore Public Media. Thanks to Tom Maloney, Vice President of Radio Operation for Lakeshore Public Media, and Greg Kovach, WVLP's Station Manager.
Our theme music is by Billy Foster with a vocal by Renee Foster. Art on the Air is supported by the Indiana Arts Commission Arts Project Grant, South Shore Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. We'd like to thank our current underwriters for Lakeshore Public Media, Macaulay Real Estate and Valparaiso, Olga Patrician, Senior Broker, and for WVLP, Walt Redinger of Paragon Investments. So we may continue to bring you Art on the Air, we rely on you, our listeners and underwriters, for ongoing financial support.
If you're looking to support Art on the Air, we have information on our website at breck.com slash aota, where you can find out how to become a supporter or underwriter of our program in whatever amount you are able. And like I say every week, don't give till it hurts, give till it feels good, and you'll feel so good about supporting Art on the Air. If you're interested in being a guest or send us information about your arts, arts-related event or exhibit, please email us at aota at breck.com, that's aota at breck, b-r-e-c-h dot com, or contact us through our Facebook page.
Your hosts were Larry Breckner and Esther Golden, and we invite you back next week for another episode of Art on the Air. Aloha, everyone. Have a splendid week.
