Episode 2

Taylor Haley Carroll is an artist, curator, and academic who focuses on Black Joy as a form of activism. She organized a workshop exploring the concept of Black Joy and how it can be expressed through art. The workshop aimed to educate and inspire participants to create their own artwork. Taylor believes that art is a powerful tool for self-expression and can serve as a catalyst for nonverbal experiences, especially during traumatic times. She is currently working on an exhibition that invites artists to represent Black Joy and showcase the variety of ways it can be visualized. Taylor's artistic identity is influenced by her great-grandmother, who was generous, caring, and nurturing. She channels her grief through remembering her impact and strives to live in a way that would make her proud. So I am here with Taylor Haley Carroll. Hi, my name is Taylor Haley Carroll. I am originally from Houston. I moved up here to Denton to go to Texas Women's. I have my Bachelor's in General Studies with a concentration in Art and Business. I also am currently getting my Master's of Arts in Art History and Visual Culture with a concentration in Multicultural Women and Gender Studies. I am a curator who is focusing on their current exhibition of how Black Joy is Black Activism and just highlighting, you know, the beauty of Black Joydom and the power that it has in combating, you know, oppression and just providing space for these artists to share their stories with us. Awesome! Well I got to attend this workshop you speak of and that was kind of what inspired bringing you on as a guest today. So from my perspective, it was really cool because I just, you know, I got the flyer and I was like, I don't know what this means, but I want to show up. My friend is hosting it. I want to be there. And it was so cool to see just how many people came by, like, from all different departments. Like, not everybody in the room, like, identified as Black. So it was really cool to have that, like, diversity, that variety. And all of this is making art together. Basically, the workshop was to act as a launch pad for, like, well, what is Black Joy? Where does it come, where does this term come from? What does it mean? And how have other artists represented it in their work? Basically, it's very subjective, stuff like art, where Black Joy is about experiencing joy through the Black experience. And how that in itself can be a form of activism because, you know, taking care of yourself and experiencing happiness and joy is one of the best ways to strike down your oppressor because they only desire you to fail and they only desire you to not experience joy. I wanted it to be an enlightening experience. And there were some people who weren't, you know, part of the African diaspora and don't identify as Black. But I think it's important to educate the importance of joy, even in a general sense, to audiences because how that is a tool of political activism. And I use a lot of scholars' writings in addressing that, especially, like, Audre Lorde. She talks about how her restfulness and her self-care is a form of political activism. And I'm like, yeah, same. This is true. Audre Lorde says, Caring for myself is not self-indulgence. It is self-preservation, and that is an act of political warfare. So you did just kind of explain how that fits into your idea of Black Joy. You're an artist. You're an academic. You're an activist. What made you decide, like, we're going to look at Black Joy from an art of activism perspective, not just, like, something else? Yeah, you know, I have my strengths. I am an artist. I love creating art. I love observing and analyzing art. And, you know, art is a very accessible way for people to express themselves through different mediums, and that's kind of where I wanted the workshop to be. That's why I brought so many different ways to express themselves, like through collaging, painting, even just pencil and paper, there's a vast amount of possibilities that can happen through art. You get so many different representations of what Black Joy can look like. It's really important to have those multiple representations of Black Joy to really get a sense of what it can mean per person. So that it's just not this stagnant, like, oh, this is what it means and nothing else. It's an ever-evolving form, and I feel like art does the same thing where it keeps evolving over time. We actually talked about something in our classes the other day. It was around, like, trauma, but we were talking about how art serves as this catalyst for the nonverbal experiences going through, you know, especially the things we're going through currently politically. It is very traumatic. It is very scary. And it's not always easy to, you know, talk about it and express it verbally. And as someone who does keep a lot of their emotions close to them, art has always been this form where I can express myself freely and accurately, especially about how I'm feeling internally. That feeling of, I don't have the words, well, you don't need the words. Like, just go for it. Yeah, you know, and it's just so, and that's also very universal because across language barriers and across different experiences and locations, people really can identify with art pieces, and I think that's just really powerful. Yeah, and you mentioned, like, how it's not stagnant. I really appreciated that you designed this to be a workshop, not just come hear me lecture about how Black joy is Black activism. Like, I want you to produce your own artwork, and there's going to be an exhibition, right? Yeah. Tell us more about that. Well, the exhibition process has been a journey, but we, or we as in me, are finally doing the open call for artists, hopefully tomorrow. It invites artists to represent joy through the Black experience and asking those artists, what does this mean to you? How are you representing that? Is it something very interpersonal? Is it something maybe more culturally relatable that maybe a lot of your community can understand? Is it, you know, something funny and goofy? Is it something really serious? And I really want to highlight with this exhibition the variety of joys that can be expressed and experienced and how it can be visualized. I always feel like artists are like, oh, well, no one's going to understand. Like, there's going to be one other person who understands. You know, maybe not everyone, but sometimes just that one person who's like, I get this. You know, we take all these, like, theory classes, and a lot of it pops up in my everyday life. I tend to think it's like, oh, maybe I'm in school too much. But, you know, I am an artist, but I very rarely put my art out in exhibition because, honestly, I don't really make art for other people. I make art solely for my own needs and my own desires of, like, how I want to, you know, I'm having these feelings or I'm going through this right now, and I need to express it some way because I can't verbalize it. And it always makes me happy, of course, when people feel something from my art. But I'm always like, I'm so happy that you really enjoy it, but it's not for you. But I'm always happy, like, showing pictures to people, like on Instagram and stuff, even though I don't always put it in exhibitions because, you know, it can be an intimate experience. And it's very vulnerable for artists to, you know, share that piece. So I'm always really thankful when artists are like, oh, I have some art I'd like to share with you. Yeah, yeah, it's one of those, like, I mean, it's kind of depressing, but, like, when an artist will pass away, or a writer, like any type of artist, and you find all these things that they created, and you're like, why didn't you share this? Well, it wasn't for you, you know? Yeah, like, I think it was Ansel Dumas, and they were going through all of the documentations and artifacts that she had left behind, and she had all of these little doodles, and, like, fortune tellers, or, like, they're in the, like, I think it was Ansel, the Ansel Doodle Reader, where they kind of analyze the, her archive. But they kind of go through the process of looking at, like, just, just, like, little doodles she does, and the artwork she creates, and, you know, contextualizing that to her experiences and her writings. And I think it's just a beautiful way, because this, to me, is what being an artist is about. It doesn't always have to be this, like, you're making the Mona Lisa, or you're painting the Sistine Chapel, which is great, but sometimes it is just doing a little doodle, the little traces you leave behind for others to find. But it's always nice to be appreciated, especially when you're still around. Yeah, well, I was going to ask you how you would describe your artistic identity. So, like, in the beginning of the workshop, we talked about your great-grandmother, right? Juanita? Yeah, Juanita. Nino? Yes. We all called her Nino, and I didn't find out her name was Juanita until her funeral. Oh, my goodness. It was in her obituary, and I was like, Juanita? Who's that? And, you know, my family has a very, you know, non-normative tradition around death. We celebrate life. Which, you know, I shouldn't say non-normative. It's non-Western, if anything. Right. You know, the process of mourning, I think traditionally can be seen as very sorrow and, you know, grief-filled, which is, you know, people have to go through that grief process in their own way. And I've always, you know, found it in moments that I channel my grief more through remembering how much the people I love impacted my life and remaining integral to that. You know, my great-grandmother was always a very generous, charitable woman. She was always very outspoken and always very caring and nurturing. So I always tried to, you know, live that way. But, you know, there are moments where I'm like, I just wish she was around. There's so many things I wish I had asked her and questions I wish she could, you know, or stories I wish she could tell me. But, you know, in a way, going through life, I'm thinking, like, what would she do? What would she tell me from, like, what I do know about her? And she would tell me, like, you know, just keep on trying, just keep on pushing through and add what you need into your life. And I'm like, oh, she's alive. And I really loved how you incorporated that into the workshop. Like, this is someone who's inspired me and, like, showed me through their life what it means to, like, live this type of joy. Yeah. Yeah, and I guess I read In Search of Our Mother's Garden, because you mentioned that. Yeah. Alice Walker talks about in one of her essays how, like, she doesn't feel like there were any models for her with her art, with writing specifically, because Black artists and writers, like, weren't presented in her formal education. Like, they weren't discussed as, like, high art to model in the first place. And so she had to seek them out and learn from them on her own. How do you feel like your experience has been in academia? Because, like, we know that, you know, really inspired you, like, in your personal life, like, you as an individual growing up, but when it comes to, like, the academic side of it, do you feel like your experience is similar to Alice Walker, or, like, you've kind of been exposed more to things? Academically speaking, I am, I feel like a sponge. I'm absorbing all this information about all these brilliant, amazing people, and I want to consume more and more and more, and yet there's not enough. I'm always like, there has to be more. Like, I love all the people I'm learning about now, and I'm sure that I'm still only scratching the surface, but, you know, the disparity is still very evident in the scholars and the artists and the writers that get recognition for their work, and the ones that don't. Academically, I've always strived to go seeking them out, and whether it's, like, a small article they did, like, 20 years ago, or if it's just this little book that they just had on their shelf, or, you know, to really try to get outside of my comfort zone, because my comfort zone is what has been programmed into me by a society, which is to not look outside the mainstream, to not look outside the lens of what you're told there is. Yeah. Exactly. Honestly, the disparity between specifically, like, Black women artists who are, like, you know, visual artists or writers or what have you, the disparity of recognition, not even existence, they exist, but it's just the disparity of recognition that they get compared to their counterparts is staggering. So, you know, that's also kind of one of my goals is to bring them to the light, because they deserve that platform just as much. Yeah, absolutely. So talking about the importance of having a community and collective strength as a way to keep going when it comes to, like, the activism side of things, can you tell me, slash, us, about, like, what your community is like and the ways that they give you strength? Yeah. I grew up in a very, very Black community. I grew up in Third Ward, Houston. But I also grew up very matriarchally. I grew up around a lot of women. I went to an all-girls high school. I was already kind of saturated in the brilliance that Black women can provide and exist and continue to do. And that was the kind of community I felt most comfortable in. You know, I always found it. You know, it's this very unique, intrinsic thing. You might also identify, but, you know, if you're in a room and it's mostly white people and you're looking around and you see one other person, you're my new best friend. Yeah, that, like, we're absolutely going to sit next to each other. Yeah, and we're going to get, we know nothing about each other. We're probably from different parts of the world, but we have this interconnectedness, this high vibe. Yeah, I remember being in high school and someone asked me, like, why do all the Black girls always sit together? And I didn't have an answer at the time, but the more I thought about it, it was like, well, because we're all having, like, she's been asked that same question. Like, point blank, we already both relate because you're questioning, like, I didn't ask you why all the white girls sit together. Yeah. Like, so we already have this level of understanding. There's things that we don't have to explain to her. Obviously, our lives are different and we're going to learn from each other, but, like, we can come to the table already feeling a sense of, like, similarity. I hate to make this parallel, but, you know, it's kind of this semi-trauma vibe. Kind of, yeah. Like, we have experiences that, like, we would have to explain to someone else. Yeah. Where we don't have to explain them to each other. But I feel like the same goes for joy. Like, you know, certain communities don't have that joy of a cookout. Yeah. And some communities don't have that joy of, you know, finding a hair product that finally works for you. Yes. And sharing it with everyone you know. Exactly. So that we all can use it together. Yeah. You know, having those recognized experiences that happen diasporically. You know, I'm a southern black woman from Houston. If I met someone from New York, I'm sure, like, we would have different experiences even growing up and, like, maybe culturally. But we, I feel like we have this recognition of that diasporic experience. Like, we've come a long ways. Yes. And even though you and this other person would be able to see the differences in each other, the outside world is going to view you as the same. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And then, you know, us being like, well, it doesn't really matter what they say because we're going to be happy, you know, and we could be happy with each other in our community. Yeah. We're all driven towards that goal. And that, like, openness of, like, everyone is welcome to share in this joy, but, like, I'm not going to let you take it away from me. Exactly. Yeah. I feel like you've already seen this workshop that we did impacting other people. Like, pre-exhibition, how do you feel like it's making a difference? Sometimes it just takes a reminder of, like, how important taking just, like, 10, 15, 30 minutes to do something that makes you happy is impactful. And to, you know, even just re-educate yourself about an experience that, you know, obviously, if you're not Black, you're never going to understand the Black experience. But being willing to learn and accept and listen to, like, that this is a genuine experience that people have. And, you know, I've gotten a lot of, you know, response back, people saying, thank you, like, this is so educational. Like, I'm, like, they're relearning how to experience joy. And, you know, it's not something innate in our society to learn how to be happy. Yeah. If anything, they kind of try to tell you don't learn how to be happy. Yeah. You got to work harder, how to be more successful. And, like, you know, I'm down for the hustle, but I'm not down for really hustle culture. Mm-hmm. I think it's really a way of guiding us towards what I feel like should be life's goal, which is to be happy. Yeah. To be joyous and to, you know, if possible, bring joy onto others. I was just happy that I was able to contribute to that experience and provide an opportunity for people to experience joy. And by doing so, I felt joyous. Mm-hmm. And, you know, it's just a beautiful cycle. Yeah. It was really cool to see how just organically, like, all of us being in that space led to people making plans, like, outside of the workshop to continue creating art and, like, regularly getting together and doing this in their own time. Like, you created an environment where we could all come together and experience this, and then it naturally, like, you didn't have to say, hey, guys, now we're going to plan to meet every Friday and, like, continue doing this. It just happened. It creates a catalyst, and, you know, it sprouts new communities. Mm-hmm. People wanting to learn more about themselves, about each other. You were mentioning, you know, the groups that sprout up, and one of them is the collage group. There were a lot of people doing collages, and I was really surprised, but I was very happy. I was like, oh, my gosh, I didn't know everyone was so into collaging. You know, it was so informative for me as well. The person leading the workshop, like, wow, I didn't know that this was something people enjoyed so much. And other people realizing, like, I didn't know I enjoyed this so much. Yes. And by doing so, they're like, we're going to do this more because we want to experience this joy more often. And I was like, oh, yes. Yeah, it was beautiful to see. It was, and that's how I'm like, this is successful. Like, if you could measure success in terms of joy, this is successful. The joy meter off the charts. Yeah, yeah. Part of our focus in having these conversations, like we're doing right now through this podcast, is to discuss emotional fatigue related to activism and social justice, and then how joy can be a source of resilience. So when we talked before, you mentioned prioritizing your rest. Yeah. Can you talk a bit more about how you do this and, like, what way you've seen it have an impact in your own life? It's hard. You know, like I said, like, our society doesn't really give us a lot of opportunities to prioritize rest. You know, we, like, we both work full-time jobs. We both go to school basically full-time. And we have things outside of school and work that we prioritize in our lives. And, you know, where does that leave room for just, you know, having moments to experience joy? You know, part of the exhibition wanting to have these various representations of joy also go into the various ways you can experience joy. Like, for me, I love cooking. And it's something that my great-grandmother passed down to me is the love of cooking and the providing of sustenance to other people and how it's always filled me up with joy. And it's always filled me up with the memories of my great-grandmother. And how I'm like, I don't have time to cook. I don't have time to do that. Which, you know, that's why. Sometimes I try to do things, but then I realize I've got a month without cooking anything. Yeah. And, like, I feel so distant and disconnected from my great-grandmother and I feel so disconnected from my community because I haven't cooked anything for them. I haven't cooked anything for myself. I feel like my body hasn't been nourished and sustained. Right. And it's kind of this process. You have to figure out what brings you joy to a point where it can sustain you. Mm-hmm. And it can be almost anything. You know, maybe it's reading a book. Maybe it's taking a bubble bath. It can be even just laying your grass. You don't know how many times I've just laid in some grass. Or hugged a tree. Or hugged a tree. Yeah. Yeah. Or hugged a tree. And, you know, it doesn't have to be conventional. It doesn't have to be like this. If your joy is skydiving, listen, I'll seal those nose. That makes you happy. That makes you happy. There's no one right way. If you don't know the way, try different ways. You know, they're all out there and they're all different. It can be really hard to make time for those things, but it's so crucial. We don't have a lot of time on this earth and, you know, we don't always have the luxury of having joy provided to us. So sometimes it's dependent on us to just take it. And take those opportunities to be joyous. Another author that Riley and I have been talking about lately is Tricia Hersey with her book Rest is Resistance. And she says, rest is a form of resistance because it disrupts and pushes back against capitalism and white supremacy. So in her work, she calls attention to time spent resting as a way to reclaim rest that was denied to our ancestors and to envision and dream of new futures. So I feel like from my perspective, there is a lot of Tricia Hersey's alternative activism that aligns with your philosophy. But if you want to put it in your own words, art as activism connected to rest as resistance. Yeah. You know, I've been seeing on TikTok this whole movement. I think it happened on like April 11th or something. And it was I think it happened on April 5th where everyone was going to march but black people were like, I'm going to sit down. Okay. Because we've been marching, man. We've been marching. And now it's time for us to sit, not sit in complacence and not sit in negligence, but to sit and rest in resistance because our rest is crucial. We deserve rest. We were talking about the storing of trauma within the body in the physical physicality, you know, how it physically impacts you and how generational trauma isn't, it is, you know, part of how like how your mom, how your grandparents were raised, how your mom was raised, how you were raised, but also the actual trauma, how it was stored in the body and how that genetically is passed down and how you have to go through that process of healing your body over and over again to get to a point where, you know, even just accomplishing the ability to rest, I feel like is an achievement because I feel like even when I'm resting, with my air quotes, you're not really resting. I'm still stressing. I'm still thinking like, you're not doing what you need to be doing. I'm like, why am I thinking that I don't deserve this? Why am I thinking that I don't deserve like 20 minutes of just sitting down and doing nothing? Yeah, it's that, like, I think Riley and I talked about this when we talked last week, like, this idea that your time belongs to someone else and it's not you. It's like you don't deserve to use it the way that you want. You don't get to spend it how you want because someone else owns it. And it's like, now I'm taking it back. This is mine. My, you know, my great-grandmother, she lived for a very, very long time. She lived, she was like, I can't remember how old she was actually, but I always remember, you know, every time I see her, she was always working. She was always up and doing something. She liked it. She liked being up and physical and stuff. I was always like, don't you want to sit and rest? She's like, you know, it's hard for me to rest because it was always heartbreaking because I was like, you deserve to rest. Like she, it wasn't necessarily she didn't want to. She's just like, I don't know how, right? You know, it wasn't, it wasn't a luxury afforded to her. And, you know, you need to eat, you need to sleep. And I knew, like it always came from a place that like, she would desire those things for herself. And I'm always very adamant about that with my friends. I'm like, you need to eat, you need to sit, you need to rest. And like, when people come into my house, I'm like, don't stand, you're stressing me out. You need to relax. The idea of like the caregiver needs to be cared for also. And, you know, sometimes it's, I don't always remember the priority for a little bit. But it's always important to remember the absolute truth that like you deserve rest, you deserve joy. You shouldn't be destroying your body. Absolutely. I mean, there's a place for like, like rest buddies, you know, like you're, you forget you need to take a second. Someone can be like, hey, I'm your accountability partner, not to get stuff done, but to take a break. That's how I am with my, with my best friend. We're always like, you know, we watch one episode, we gab, we just take a little minute and it recharges us like instantly. And then we have, we call them rat days. Yeah. We're just right inside and we're like, we're, we're the laziest and the most wetness and we just self-indulge. But here's the thing, we paint those things to be such negative, like, like scourge or the earth, like it's morally wrong. It's morally wrong to be lazy. And, you know, it's not, you should never be neglectful of your, of yourself and your needs and things like that. But it's one thing to be neglectful. If it's one thing to just, you know, sit and listen to your body and your body be like, hey, like I need a day. I need a mental health day. I need, I need, you know, a break from the hustle. Listen, your body has got to stick with you for a long time. This is true. And you got to stick with it for a long time. And if you want to, if you want to do it for a long time, you better listen to it. Yeah. Y'all both need to make it to the finish line together. Exactly. In tandem the whole time. Three-legged race. You and you. Yeah. So what does art as activism mean to you? And then like, in what ways can you see it showing up in your life right now? Ooh, okay. We talk about this a lot in our classes. And it's, it's, you know, as much as we do talk about it, it's kind of hard to pin down in so many words. But basically, art is the vessel for activism. And it's, you know, it's the, it's the vessel for activism. And it serves us as means of representation for so many different groups. And the ability to be expressed in so many different ways and so many different methods of material and venue and capacity, the ability for people to engage with it. And it becomes, you know, also it becomes universal language across the world. You know, those who experience oppression or injustice see these acts and see this representation and then themselves feel empowered to resist and perform activism. And, you know, for me, I'm always like, I can't do anything. Like, what am I going to do? Like, I'm just a normal person. But every activist is just a normal person. Like, no one, no one is special. No one is more special than anybody else. Right. We're all just normal people trying to get through the day. But to be an artist, you know, and to have this opportunity to impact your community and to make change is very special. You get to be a conduit for your community. And your community gets to surround and be around this movement with you and contribute. To me, it's always been this really beautiful experience. It's a human experience, really, because, you know, I've always felt like humanity is dependent on art. It's dependent on representation. Art is, has the ability to be abstracted and, you know, expanded and micro to so many different degrees and fluctuate with the fluidity of being human. And, I just love, I just love it. That's why I think it's one of the most diverse and one of the most impactful ways to engage in activism. Because we, we can all be artists. Absolutely. Yeah, and I think, you know, art has so many different definitions. Like, reading Alice Walker, she was talking about artists really often and I was like, wait a minute. She's talking about writers, too. Yeah. Like, it's not an exclusive term. It's, like, inherently an inclusive idea. To be an artist, you're, you kind of already take this place as a rebel. Yeah. You know, my, even my family, who was very encouraging me, you know, very encouraging of me becoming an artist. Because they knew I had something to say. But sometimes they would be like, are you sure you want to do this? Like, you're not going to make any money. And I'm like, it's not about making money. It's about expressing myself. Which, in itself, is like, already going against the patriarchy and hustle culture because I'm not here for money. I'm not here for capitalism. Yes. Say it again for the people in the back. I'm here. I'm doing this for me. I'm doing this for the girls. I'm doing this for my community. And already being in this kind of rebel community, like, being an artist, however that takes form, you can get this voice inside of you saying, like, I need to express this. I need to say this. And I think that's one of the reasons I, you know, desire to be a curator. Even though I am an artist who keeps a lot of their art close to themselves, my message with that art is still powerful. And my goal with wanting to be a curator is to help artists who are like, I need to get this out there. I'm like, I'm going to do that for you. I'm going to help you because I see your vision. I see your message. And it needs to be heard. Absolutely. Yeah. What advice would you give to someone struggling with activism burnout? You know, being an activist, you get a lot of burnout because you're always advocating for yourself, for communities who deserve human and civil rights, emotionally, physically. It's exhausting on all levels because you're literally trying to live. The struggle of trying to live in itself sounds so, so ridiculous. And yet, here we are. And I think it's important to realize that you are also part of that community. You know? You are in a long fight against the system that is deeply ingrained. And to continue on advocating and continue to being an activist, you have to be an activist and advocate for yourself. Which sometimes means, like, I still support you. And I am still here for you. But I need to sit. I need to sleep. I need to eat. And I'm always, you know, there's lots of discussion in the terms of, like, what is really activism? And who isn't really an activist? And, you know, it takes so many different forms. Like, there are people who proclaim to be activists but do not act. You know? They will say, I support these things, but in their actions do no actual acting. And I would say, you're not really an activist. But I wouldn't say that because you need rest and you need to sit and be within yourself that you're not an activist. I think you're an activist if your intentions are true, if your actions are integral, and your attempts are genuine. They don't have to be grand ventures of, you know, rallying thousands and hundreds of people in the streets. And, you know, and that's a great form of activism. It can also just be painting something or writing something and then sharing it with people. And then there's people rallying around that. Right. You know? Absolutely. Yeah. So, in Search of Our Mother's Gardens, it was originally published in 1983, but the version that I read had an author's note from Alice Walker from 2023. And it provided more context to the work. Like, it defined womanism. And in this letter to the reader, she says, womanist is to feminist as purple is to lavender. And I remember you asking Liz about this. And I remember, like, little, like, antennas. I was like, what is that? That sounds cool. Like, I want to know more about that. But, so, knowing that you were talking about this, like, three months ago, as someone who is well-versed on this topic, like, what does that quote mean to you? I... Let me tell you this. I love Alice Walker. I love this piece of her. You know, be a feminist. To be a womanist and to be a feminist are not mutually exclusive. Like, you don't have to be one or the other. Okay. You can be both. More often than not, you are both. And you might not know it. Mm-hmm. To be a feminist, for better or not, you focus on the rights of all. And to be a womanist, to be a womanist, you amplify that more to be sustaining in the, really, the growth of humanity, I feel like, of how it is for me. They go in tandem. To be a womanist is really to look out for the benefit of humanity. And it sounds so, it sounds so, I don't know, evangelist or maybe, like, like, superhero-ish to say it like that. But that's what it feels like to me. And, oh, yeah. Yeah. I was really happy that you read it. Yeah. My interpretation is kind of like, woman is to feminist, purple is to lavender. Like, purple is a deeper color than lavender. And so it's like, it has, like, something more robust. Yeah. And to me, it's like that robustness comes from, like, the introspection and, like, the internal, how do you feel? Yeah. Um, you know, I've read a lot of Alice Walker's work and I've been including a lot of her writings in, like, my academic writing. And also, like, Toni Morrison and Bell Hooks. Yes. Ugh! All these women, the way they just express themselves through words. Like, one day, myself, maybe. I'll get close. You can do it! I'm reaching. Alice Walker would say, like, yes, you can do it. Thanks. I think, you know, we go through these waves of feminism and feminism is important and it should be talked about and it should be advocated for. But we are losing the main message of what we're trying to say with feminism. And womanism puts that, hmm, to it. Yeah. We are here for all. We are trying to support the rights of humans, the rights of everyone, because everyone deserves to be happy. Mm-hmm. You know, she also points out, like, I think womanism is, you know, singing and dancing and eating. Yes. Yes. This is what it is. This is what it is to be alive. This is what it is to experience life. And people don't get to do that. People don't get to eat. They don't get to sing. They don't get to dance because of oppressive government, because of tyrannical rule. We need to be driven to prevent that, combat it, in our own ways. And I think it's just a beautiful way of realizing what we're fighting for, of being... There is importance of looking at it as a political venture, because it is. Mm-hmm. But to put it on a human level, a humanitarian level of we are here working so people can be happy and live their lives for the rights to their own bodies, for the rights to leave their homes and not be afraid. Mm-hmm. And, you know, presently our government is working very hard to make us fear it. Right. And it's working. Yes. Unfortunately. And, you know, I think in our activism we have to make sure that we make spaces where we can feel safe and heard and realize that we're not alone, because that's the tactic. Mm-hmm. Make you feel isolated. Make you feel like you're hopeless and that there is no joy left in the world. You might as well give up. Exactly. Yeah. And it's really hard. You know, with the burnout, you want to give up. You're like, I've been trying so hard and we've been working so hard and look where we are. And, you know, maybe those moments of rest can be those moments where you're like, this is what I'm fighting for. I'm fighting so people can have these moments to rest. I'm fighting because there's people out there who are fighting consistently over and over and over again and never get to rest. You know, while I rest now, they fight for me. While they rest, I fight for them. Mm-hmm. It's this tandem. It's this cycle that we go through. And I'm hoping, you know, in the grand scheme, that my exhibition provides some modicum of joy. And even that, you know, to me will be the biggest achievement because it's a combatant of what I know our oppressors will hate. And I live to make them, I live to make them angry. I live to make them upset. Absolutely. Because, you know, if me being happy makes them upset, then I am going to be ecstatic. Ha ha ha! © transcript Emily Beynon