IndianWGSS

Aloe is joined by Dane Shipman, a junior at Colby College, to discuss the Civil Rights Movement and the Black Panthers' influence on African Americans' rights in the US. They also touch on the Dalits in India and Martin Luther King Jr.'s advocacy for their rights. They discuss the differences in approaches, with MLK advocating for peaceful methods and the Black Panthers resorting to more militant tactics. They also mention the influence of the British in India and the impact of Christianity on the Dalits. They discuss the parallels between civil rights movements in different countries and the struggle for basic human rights. Hello, my name is Aloe and you are listening to A Chat with Aloe. Today I will be joined by Dane Shipman. He is a junior here at Colby College and he is a CS major. The articles that I will be referring to today are The Black Panther Party as well as My Trip to the Land of Gandhi by Martin Luther King Jr. Okay, hi Dane. Thank you so much for coming onto my podcast. Today we are going to be speaking a little bit about the Dalits in India and actually how Martin Luther King went over to India and kind of advocated for the same rights that was going on in the United States during the Civil Rights Movement and what was happening with the Dalits which were the lower caste in India and how they were also advocating for their own rights. But I was just going to ask, what do you really know about what happened with the Civil Rights Movement, more centralized towards the Black Panthers and the influence that they had with the rights of African Americans in the United States? Yes, absolutely. When it comes to the Civil Rights Movement, especially when it comes to looking at the Black Panthers and then MLK, it often actually separates at a certain point just because of factors like MLK's non-violent approach versus the Black Panthers' more militant approach to civil rights. Generally, when we think about Martin Luther King, a lot of that stuff is peaceful, political, and economic boycotts, but with the Black Panthers it was kind of harnessing this idea of Black power and Black solidarity, and that was more of an aggressive movement. I mean, to the point in the fact that it's known that the FBI assassinated the leaders of the Black Panthers movement just because of the fact that it was kind of a very populist elite that I guess Black people had in terms of their civil rights. I wouldn't necessarily know which one was more effective. Obviously, we both know that. We talk a lot more about MLK's approach versus the Black Panthers' movement. But, yeah, I don't know a whole lot, actually, about how it went down in the United States. But I do know, and I think I'll be drawing on a lot of what I know about the Black Panthers' movement in Israel, which was framed off of the Black Panthers' movement in the U.S. So it just seems like, I mean, across the world, MLK's approach to civil rights and the Black Panthers' approach to civil rights seems to kind of be found in places where civil rights is questioned, not just in America, but in Israel and in India. Yeah. Drawing back to the article, I do see what you were saying, how MLK had more peaceful approaches. Like, he went into India with the pastor mentality. The article specifically mentions, like, pastor finds in India a strong bond. And it kind of just, like, also reflects what you were saying. It was more peaceful. And it's just like what was happening in India, much as we live with the Dalits. Like, there was a lot of brutality that was caused to them. Or, like, they were put in systems where they were made to struggle. Or, like, they were kept at lower jobs. And their justification to hire caste people were like, oh, because you're doing these low-class jobs, you must therefore stay in a lower caste. Right. And it was something that didn't even come down to, like, race, but necessarily, like, just the attitude of because you're different in caste-wise, which I find very interesting because I feel like in the United States, like, it was very much, like, race-divided. Yeah. But in India, like, everyone's the same race and there's still a divide, which is very interesting. Yeah. No, I agree. I think, like, it's interesting because I think also, like, a lot of these places, like, outside the U.S., like, when it comes to segregation and, like, more things that we consider to be race-based, it's actually supported more in depth through, like, an economic infrastructure or something that, like, isn't race-based. And I don't know, like, case-wise how that occurs, but I imagine that it seems like a lot of, like, I mean, I'm going to say the British have a lot to do with these things. Yeah. But they've had a lot of time to perfect how they kind of divide and segregate people based on hierarchy. And it seems like the U.S. kind of found out it doesn't really work that well for race, but it's really effective when you can do it through an economic system where people can unite on the fact that they look different. Yeah. Adding on to what you said about the British, the British actually had a very strong influence in India because the British came to, like, south of India, and they influenced a lot of Christianity influences because, for the most part, India is more Hindu-based. And more of the Christians, like, they didn't necessarily follow, like, not only the most, like, religious aspects, but also, like, culture-wise, like, with being Christian, like, they eat beef. An example for, like, this is, like, the Brahmins. There's, like, an area in India where they are primarily Christians, but because of the Braves that came. So you were very spot-on with that aspect. Oh, I also do want to touch on, just real quick, how you were saying about the Black Panthers, how, like, they resorted to more violence. There's this article that I also will be referring to, like, the Black Panther Party. And they basically just, like, list out of, like, honestly just basic human rights of, like, they want freedom. They want all Black people. They said, we want all Black people brought to trial and tied to court. Like, just fighting for just essentially equal rights, fighting for housing, education, peace, employment. And it's very interesting how we can see the, honestly, just parallelism between what's happening in the United States and these are the same thing that the Dalits in India were also fighting for, is basic human rights. And I'm not sure which one was more effective, like you said, like, resorting to violence or resorting to peaceful, but it's still a struggle that they still continue to fight, like, even now in India. Yeah, yeah. And I also wonder, you mentioned about Christianity. Was it, like, that in India they were, because of the British, they were Christians? Yes. So, like, there's, like, this, not that they were first, like, shelled out, but they were, like, oh, for a bag of rice. So, like, there's kind of this, like, notion of, like, oh, you only resorted to Christianity so you could get a bag of rice. And it just, like, continues through generations, like, oh, like, once, you know, you're born into your family, and, like, that's just a religion that you follow. Right. But, like, you can resort to different things, but because it's built into your family, you're built with those customs and values, like, you essentially just follow it through generations and generations. But, yes, most of India is primarily Hindu, and when the British came, like, they were spreading their beliefs, and saying, like, this is right, this is wrong, and because we're, like, because, like, of all sorts of skin color, like, we are right, you're wrong. And they would give Indians a bag of rice if they converted. And so they're often, like, referring to, like, you know, quote-unquote, like, sellout, like, you only resorted to Christianity because of, like, a bag of rice. Right. Mm-hmm. That's, like, interesting. That could be a good thing. Right. I think, like, I don't know, like, the religious breakdown within the U.S., but people that, like, either showed, like, how false it is. I mean, I've been a sinner since the birth of MLK, but, like, as a Christian, I think MLK had a big following of people that... As a pastor. Yeah, as a pastor, had, like, this following of people that believed in more Western-based approaches to religion. Right. And I think the Black Panthers and people like Malcolm X sort of very much into where they were Muslim, and they were, like, exploring Islam as a religion. So, like, the difference between Western religions and Eastern religions might play a factor in determining, like, what the approach is to, you know, gaining civil rights. I think what you're saying, like, that, you know, in India, the mode to work for civil rights was the same kind of fashion as it was on the island, and we also have the fact that in India, the British passed down this idea of Christianity, and it seems like Western religions value this, like, nonviolent approach. Oh, 100%. Like... Westernized version of, like, high fear of rape, but not aggressively, and then everything else is, like... Yeah. It's just that now that, like, I'm kind of thinking about what you said about, like, the Black Panthers, and, like, especially, like, Malcolm X was, like, a very open Muslim. Right. Like, Muslims in India are, like, so frowned upon. Yes. There was this, like, this path that they took out, and, like, it's crazy, like, borderline of a war, and, like, for sure, a feud between the two of, like, the classes, like, religion, and, you know, like, the other, because India was, like, pro-Hinduism, and, like... Right. But, yes, I want to thank you so much, Dean, for joining me on my podcast. You have been listening to A Chat with Alo. Thank you. Songs, credits go to the perfect corporate podcast intro by Lunderstorm.