The Chamber of Trauma: Interpersonal Communication Podcast

The Chamber of Drama podcast explores the complexities of parent-child relationships, focusing on baggage from childhood and generational trauma. The hosts discuss identity gaps, childhood trauma, generational trauma, and cultural disparities. They use a case study to delve into the conflict between Mei, a first-generation American, and her father Ling. They highlight the importance of communication accommodation theory in understanding family dynamics and the role of accommodative communication in fostering healthy relationships. They also discuss the impact of non-accommodative communication on relational satisfaction and shared family identity. The hosts offer insights and practical tips for resolving conflicts in parent-child relationships affected by identity gaps and relational turbulence. Hey guys, welcome to the Chamber of Drama, where we're diving deep into the intricacies and relational turbulence of parent-child relationships. All about the baggage we all carry from childhood and even further back through generations. Those moments of trauma, big or small, can cast long shadows over how we relate to each other, adding another layer of complexity to the mix. But hey, we're not here to dwell on the challenges alone. In this podcast, we're all about finding those moments of connection, those breakthroughs in understanding, and those pathways to healing. We're bringing you real stories, expert insights, and plenty of conversations to unpack these issues and explore how we can bridge those gaps between generations. So grab your headphones and join us as we navigate the twists and turns of parent-child relationships, one conversation at a time. Let's get into this. So guys, I'm one of your hosts, Yasmeen, and my research is going to be focused on identity gaps between parents and children and how that causes relational turbulence. Hi, and I'm Rose, and today I will be focusing on childhood trauma. Howdy, I'm Finn, and my topic is generational trauma. Hi, I'm Allison. And I'm Ruby. Our focus for this podcast will be cultural disparities. Alright, so for this podcast, we're going to use a case study as a basis for all of our purposes. And so, in this case study, we dive deeper into the conflict between Mei, a 17-year-old high school senior and first-generation American of Chinese descent, and her father, Ling, who immigrated from China. It examines not only their cultural and generational differences regarding career choices, but also explores the role of generational trauma, childhood experiences, and identity gaps that complicate their interactions. The conflict arises sharply when Mei excitedly shares her acceptance into a prestigious fashion institute in New York City, expecting support. She is met instead with Ling's strong disapproval, rooted in her fears and past experiences. So, I'm going to start with my specialization, which is identity gaps between parents and children. So, we're going to talk about the theory of communication and accommodation, and also the topic of relational turbulence. And so, we can see here that there's a bit of turbulence between Lei and her father, and we see that there's an identity gap there. Lei is an American-born, and her father is an immigrant, so they share a lot of different values and a lot of different views of the world. Can you guys relate? I think we're all children of immigrant parents, right? So, I think we can all agree with that. And so, within the context of parent-child relationships, a lot of the literature aims to build on the rationale established by examining identity gaps and the current kind of research landscape. The literature on communication accommodation tactics within family dynamics reveals a growing interest in understanding the nuanced ways in which communication strategies influence family cohesion, conflict resolution, and managing expectations. So, a lot of the research is rooted in this communication accommodation theory, and explores from a lot of the existing research to highlight the role of cognitive expectancies and actual communicative behaviors in shaping communication outcomes. So, previous studies have demonstrated that the application of CAC, the short for communication accommodation theory, ranges from pleasant to unpleasant communication, and significantly impacts emotional experiences and evaluations of communicators in family settings. Family cohesion, a cornerstone of healthy relationships, is intricately linked to reciprocal pleasant behavior, and research suggests that when family members employ accommodative communications characterized by positive and supportive interactions, they contribute to a sense of togetherness and share of identity. So, have you guys ever kind of experienced that feeling of when you feel like your parents don't understand you, and you're just like, can you just try, you know? Yeah, we get that, like, a lot in my family, because, again, I'm not straight, I'm not cis, but my family is from Russia, so they don't bother usually. They're just kind of like, oh, that's my defective child, and that's my other defective child. Yeah, I feel the same way a lot of times. I find that, like, being an English major and a communication major, you know, it's not the typical, like, doctor, STEM vibe, you know? And immigrant parents kind of value that mostly. So, I can really relate to Leigh here, how she kind of wants to go to fashion school. It's kind of like when my parents ask, like, what are you studying? And I'm like, English, communication. They're like, what is that? You're learning how to speak English? I'm like, no, not quite. But, like, that's the thing. Like, I feel like often when parents don't really understand what you're doing, it's harder for them to be supportive, because they don't even have a clue or, like, a grasp of, like, what's going on. Same thing with mental health. If they don't have those problems, like, it's going to be so much harder for them. Like, for you, like, with your parents, like, they don't have any experience with that. So, I think for our parents, like, it might be harder to, like, completely understand, like, what we're saying. And I think, like, for us, it might be good to also understand, like, how can we help our parents to explain to them what we're doing so that they can give us the support that we actually need. Yeah, totally. I agree. I feel like there's a lot of that kind of, like, identity gap is a big problem between parents and children, because it's not only an age thing, it's kind of a background thing, where you come from, what do you know. A lot of that also comes in with, like, religion. You see a lot of that. So, notably, accommodative communication and encompassing religious-specific supportive communication and respect for divergent values is associated with increased relational satisfaction and shared family identity. So, conversely, non-accommodative communication forms, such as inappropriate self-disclosure, emphasizing divergent values, and giving unwanted advice are linked to decreased relational satisfaction and shared family identity. So, a lot of the times, when you're in a family, when there's kind of that accommodative behavior, it's going to be a lot more cohesive. You're going to have a much more, like, comfortable family structure, whereas where there's, like, a lot of butting heads and then not accommodating, you're going to have a lot more tension, a lot more turbulence. So, by applying that to the realm of family communication, the research contributes to a broader understanding of interpersonal dynamics, and it provides practical insight for families, educators, and professionals working in the field. And further, a study conducted by behavioral sciences sheds light on communication patterns and strategies employed in the context of parent-child relationships, particularly those affected by estrangement, which explores how individuals adjust their communication styles, interactions, and resonates with several accommodation tactics. So, in CIT, these strategies can be seen as ways individuals adapt to relational contexts, either by minimizing potential conflicts or respecting the estranged person's needs. In summary, the study provides insights into how communication accommodation tactics are employed in parent-child relationships affected by estrangement. The dynamics involve both verbal and nonverbal strategies, influenced by societal stereotypes and individuals' personal experiences contributing to the nuanced communication patterns within the family dynamics. So, let's go back to the case study here and kind of see what the possible outcomes can be. I think there's two here we can talk about with the identity gaps and the relational turbulence and the incorporation of the communication accommodation theory. I think we can see, in one instance, Mae's father might, you know, just say, I don't approve, you can't go, it doesn't make sense, it's not worth it, it doesn't, you know, it's not going to amount to anything, and that leaves a lot of turbulence. And so, I see here that if that happens, I think we can talk, we can see that, like, that would make Mae struggle with her identity as a first-generation American, caught between her Chinese heritage and her American socialization, and her choice of creative and less traditional career paths symbolizes her American influence of individualism and self-expression, conflicting with her father's Chinese values of community and stability. So, this gap is a source of a lot of ongoing tension, and as each interprets success and fulfillment through different cultural lenses. So, that talks a lot about kind of what your topic is with the cultural gap there. Yeah. What do you guys think could be some tips for resolution in this scenario? I honestly think, like, based on the articles that I read before, like, based on, like, the research they did to childhood trauma is that actually being supportive and understanding is far more important than the actual conversation itself. And this can be, like, really helpful to, like, boost, like, the self-esteem from, like, both the parent and, like, the child, because once they understand, like, also kind of like what I was saying before, how, like, once they understand, like, what you're going through, like, what you're talking about, it's easier for them to be supportive. Like, not only, like, I mean, yes, that's true, but, like, this research also shows that the way that you're being supportive is, like, more important than the way that you're going to, like, bring it to them, like, the way you're, like, actually going to, like, tell them. Yeah. And, like, give them the support that they need. And then, of course, everyone needs a different type of support. Like, some people have, like, a different language. Like, some people just want to be hold and just be able to cry about something. And, like, but I think for this case study, like, I think it's difficult because I think she needs to completely, like, explain to Leanne first, like, what it is that she's going to do before he can, like, provide her the support. I think that's more important. Yeah, no, that's what I was, like, also going to, like, say. Like, definitely, like, trying to have a conversation just about, like, what you, like, want to do and just, like, listen, like, to, like, what, like, Mae, like, wants to do. Like, that's, like, really important and all that because, like, from a parent's perspective, they can come out being, like, oh, like, why are you doing this? Like, why the heck are you not, you know, like, becoming a doctor or something like that because, like, that, like, happens a lot with, like, cultural, like, backgrounds and all that. So, like, definitely just, like, listening and, like, just, like, letting the person, like, vent to you just, like, about, like, what's going on and all that would definitely, like, help. You got to make sure it's a space that you create for this person to, like, express themselves though, like, a space for them to do so. Because, like, if you start getting combative with a person who needs help or who wants to try to explain something to you, you're not going to, you're not going to understand any of the information they're trying to, like, convey to you. You know, I don't know. I feel like it's kind of important to actually listen when you're in a space where you're supposed to be listening. Yeah, definitely. I totally agree. Patience and empathy. That's really important, you know, trying to see the world from the other person's perspective and understanding their motivations and fears. But that also takes time, you know. You have to resolve, like, deep-seated issues and you have to build understanding. That doesn't happen overnight. It requires patience, repeated efforts, and, you know, kind of a willingness to visit those, like, uncomfortable topics. So, there might be some turbulence going on, but if you put in that time and effort, you know, it's definitely resolvable. And, like, I think, like, if you put the effort in and, like, you acknowledge that, in the end, like, they all have the same goal. Like, her dad just wants her to succeed. She wants to succeed. Like, in the end, they both have, like, the same goal. And so I think, like, they might have to compromise, like, in the end or, like, talk and, like, see, like, what is it that he wants from her and, like, what does she really want. And, like, sometimes, like, just talking about it, like, will already, like, clear up so many things because we also have expectations of the other person that, like, expects from us. So, it's, like, I'll have this idea of, like, oh, my dad expects me to, like, study biology and, like, I came here to study biology and then I realized, oh, I'm not good at math at all. Like, biology is not for me. And so, communication major was always kind of, like, my parents were, like, I don't know, like, what are you going to do with that. And so, in the end, it was kind of, like, a compromise with my parents where I was, like, okay, like, I'll add communication, but I'll do, like, something else as well so that I don't just, sort of, like, in the end, just kind of, like. Find common ground. Yeah. Find a common ground, like, reach out, like, help each other be understanding and, like, just don't get, like, upset or, like. Yeah. Everyday I think. Yeah. I feel like the angrier you get, the less likely you are to. Yeah. Actually succeed in whatever your point you're trying to prove. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Because, like, ever been just kind of sitting there and, like, your parent comes in and starts screaming at you for, like, not washing the dishes or something? You don't want to wash the dishes after that. No, not at all. If anything, I just want to make them more dirty. Exactly. Like, it's not going to work out well for you if you're just sitting there yelling. Yeah. No, it is. So true. That's when the patient comes in, you know, and it's really hard for, like, our parents to be patient with us because. And, you know, it can be hard for us to be patient with them, too, because there's just a lot of, like, gaps in understanding the perspective of the world. So our parents are, like, you know, they're kind of older and they've seen so much and they've gone through so much and they think that, like, they think that, like, everything we do should be, like, for them, right? Sometimes they, like. Yeah. But then everything they do they think is for us, right? So it just kind of. So just, like, we have to make sure that we're all being patient with each other and it's really listening. So that was a lot of good points, guys. I like that. So I think that also ties in a lot with, Rose, your topic. And so let's hear a little bit about that. Yeah. So I already mentioned, like, some of it earlier, how, like, being supportive and understanding is way more important than, like, the conversation style. But I also looked at something else that I thought was very interesting was that the severity of the childhood trauma does not matter for stress response at all, which then affects the communication between, like, a child and a parent. And so this is, particularly for, like, college students, it's, like, really interesting because it means that even the smallest, like, trauma that we had in our childhood will already cause us to have a stress response to something that's, like, similar to that. And so I think it's, like, really important to understand, like, we all have trauma and, like, our bodies are always going to respond to something. And, like, how do I deal with that and how do I communicate that to other people and how do I communicate the support that I need from them. And so I think, like, looking at the case study, I definitely think that, like, because what you're also talking about, like, in relation with the culture and how, like, Leon came from a childhood where, like, it was really hard and, like, he moved to the U.S. and, like, he was trying to, like, he probably had, like, the American dream, like, he wanted to get a better life. And he, well, he might probably be scared that May is not being able to, like, become as successful as, like, his vision is just because of, like, his knowledge and his background. Yeah. Yeah. And so because May is, like, in a more stable household with money and she's already in the U.S., she doesn't share the same, like, kind of, like, motivation that they have. And she doesn't have the same fears that he has. That's so interesting, actually, because I had this conversation with my dad, like, yesterday. And he was talking about how we've been, like, protesting a lot for, like, Palestine. And he's just like, you know, our generation, we weren't born here, right? So we're basically second-class citizens. And so in that way, he feels like, he's like, our generation was too scared. We couldn't do it. And so he's like, your generation, you're not scared because you can do anything because you were, like, born here. So there's that difference in their, like, their statuses here in America as well because one's an immigrant, one's foreign. And so I think that also translates to, like, education. We feel that we're here already so we can kind of study whatever we want with kind of all that passion and feel safe enough to do that. But our parents did not feel that way. They came here and they had to hustle and they didn't have a safety net, you know? They were kind of, you know, a lot at risk in the country. They weren't always, like, safe or protected. So I feel like that also translates to that trauma of that, like, that fear-monger, you know? Like, her father is probably so scared of, like, her kind of failing or because he was so scared to fail. You know? I'm sure his parents told him, like, don't. You can't fail. If you're going to go to America, you better do something right, you know? And then he's probably going to put that in her, like, I didn't come to America so you could study fashion, you know? But she doesn't have that. But that will make trauma for her if he keeps saying that, like. And then she's going to build that trauma. So that's where generational trauma comes from, you know? His parents told him he has to study something that's valuable. I'm using quotations. Valuable in society. And then she's going to think that in her head and that's going to touch her life. And then you never know what in the future. She's telling her kids the same thing. And then, you know, it's just a cycle of trauma. It's so true. And it's so funny, right? Because, like, funny enough, I am the first person in my family to move to the U.S. Yeah. And my boyfriend also is. And so, like, we're now going to move in together. I'm like, I'm curious. So what trauma is it about? Everyone has their baggage. Yeah. But it's so true. We're going to open a chamber of trauma. Seriously. And this is so funny because, like, the things you're saying are so true. Like, literally right now I'm so stressed. I'm in between visas. I can't leave the country right now because I won't be able to come back here if I don't find a job. Are they going to deport me? Like, you never know. I think, like, I also compensated. Like, you're saying, like, I did three majors and, like, I'm on the rowing team. Like, just, like, a crazy life. And the only thing I told myself was, like, I need to compensate. Like, I need to make sure that my resume will be the best resume if I apply somewhere because I need a visa and I need to pay for that. Yeah. Do you feel like that came from your parents? No, because my parents, I don't think my parents were very, they were, at first they were kind of like, oh, you can do whatever you want. And because of, like, rowing, I didn't really do too well in school. And then they were kind of like, oh, if you're going to go to the US, like, I dropped, like, some school levels. Like, there's a whole different system going on. I dropped some. And my parents were like, you have one chance. America is the only chance you have. If you don't, like, get your degree, we're going to have a real big problem. And so I think that, especially the first few years, like, put a lot of, like, pressure on me to take, like, I always took winter classes, always took summer classes. And as a result, I was able to finish, like, almost a semester early if I wanted to, because I was so, like, focused on it. So I think once I was able to relax more, I'm more relaxed. Yeah. I definitely think that the generational trauma is, like, you need to be very aware of it. And I think maybe my boyfriend and I will be able to stop it. You think so? Yeah. You know it. I think if you're aware. You might, like, pass it on to your kids. I think it will always be there. But I think if you're more aware of it, you're able to make the, like, adjustments that might make it just slightly less. Yeah. And if they can do it slightly less to their kids, like, the trauma will hopefully reduce it. Maybe you can tell us more about how that works. Oh, so the specific subsection of generational trauma I was talking about focused a lot on, like, the Holocaust and, like, big scary moments in, like, history that would fuck up an entire generation really easily. So there's this thing called post-memory, right? It's, like, the memory of a memory that you don't have. Let's say you started off in this, like, wonderful place and all of a sudden something terrible happens there. It's not your memory that something terrible has happened there. It's more like the memory of your parent who was there, like, your grandparent who was there. And it just kind of lingers, this post-memory, this concept of something that had happened at one point. It just sticks with you. And it can go one of two ways, right? You can either become embittered where you're sitting there and you're becoming increasingly more, like, angry and bitter about this thing that happened to your family. Yeah. Or you can actually talk about it and you can break the cycle. You don't have to just sit there this entire time and go, oh, no, this horrible thing happened and now my mom acts like this and it's all my mom's fault. Like, no. No. You can actually talk to them and be like, hey, I don't like when you do this thing. I understand why you are doing this thing, but it hurts me. And with luck, they will listen. Yeah. Open communication. You need to have that. Yeah. I feel like we keep going back to, like, patience and open communication. Yeah. Literally. And then, you know, another thing you can always do if it's, like, really bad and it's, you know, a cycle and your mother can be... There's a lot of cases where, like, the parents are narcissistic, you know? And they just don't listen. You can go to, like, professional help. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You know, trauma therapy can be very beneficial, especially for addressing, like, deep-seated traumas and bridging, like, that communication gap a lot of parents and children have. And, you know, therapists specialize in multicultural issues or generational traumas. They can also be tailored to, like, their specific needs. Yeah. But you can also do individual therapy. If you go into a group setting who parents aren't really kind of accommodating, they don't want to... They just don't want to even acknowledge it, you can go into your own individual therapy, you know? Professional therapy might be necessary for one or both parties to work through their individual issues related to their identity, their trauma, their stress, whatever it is. And you can kind of work through it on your own as well. And that's a long process, but it's very beneficial. And, you know, absolutely. Without therapy, I doubt that I would still be living with my family. I'm going to be so for real. It's helped you? Yeah, absolutely. Because my dad's end of the family and my mom's end of the family were both heavily impacted by the Holocaust. My mom just happened to live in a town with a lot of Jewish people in it, so they attacked her family as well. And my dad is Jewish, so a lot of his family members were just straight-up wiped out, like, hunted down like dogs. So a good, like, chunk of my childhood has consisted of this post-memory, this constant reminder that, oh yeah, hey, a whole bunch of people in your family are dead, you will never meet them again, a whole bunch of people that you could have known, that you could have been close with, you're never going to be close to because the Holocaust scattered them or because they're just gone. And unlike a lot of people whose family members will get very, like, closed off about the subject, they'll be like, oh, this horrible thing happened, let's not talk about it, not right now. But my family was very open about it and was very communicative. So when it came to, like, let's say me asking, hey, who's this person in this old family photo? Instead of going, uh-uh-uh, we don't talk about Jimmy, they kind of pulled up and they were like, okay, this is Uncle Jimmy. Uncle Jimmy was, like, the best person ever, this is all the things that Uncle Jimmy was really good at, but Uncle Jimmy died. And this sort of open communication really helped me, but at the same time, there's still this level of trauma that stuck with especially my dad because he was unfortunately a Jewish guy in the Soviet Union. And the Soviet Union did not take kindly to Jews. He spent a lot of his childhood getting, like, severely bullied and stuff like that, so he takes a lot of pride in his Jewish identity, which has led to a bit of a rift between my father and I, because he's taken, in my opinion, he's taking too much pride in it. He's like, you should probably marry someone Jewish, and I'm sitting there like, I don't want to be genetically tested if I ever decide to have children. Because, again, a lot of, there's this issue with specifically the Ashkenazi Jewish population, there's, like, two subsections of Jew, and Ashkenazi is the most popular one, that's, like, the biggest one. But even though it's the biggest one, it's also got a huge problem with people who are Jewish want to typically keep the religion going, so they will marry other Jewish people. That's all fine and dandy, except it keeps going, and it leads to a lot of, like, genetic defects and stuff in the children, because, obviously, if you keep breeding with the same population, you get, like, a lot of genetic problems, I think. But, yeah, no. As a result of, like, generational trauma, my dad is very, he's very particular about certain things in life, like, he wants me to be Jewish the same way that he's Jewish, and stuff like that, and it's just not going to, we thankfully sat down and had a chat about it, I went out, I got therapy for myself, he went out, he got on anxiety medication, we're both fine now, but, like, way in the past, things were not great. Things were not great at all, because he had this memory of being, like, bullied and shit like that, and he tried to instill this same level of fear of others in my life that just doesn't exist. Do you feel like that might lead to, like, are you planning on breaking that cycle, or do you feel like it's just implemented in you so much that you might just have to, like, continue it? I feel like I'm going to do my best to break it, but I can't guarantee, given that my mental health is not great, I can't guarantee that I'll be able to break the cycle as effectively as I want to. Like, I live in this constant state of, what if I'm not doing enough? So, I just hope that that's not imprinted on, if I ever choose to have kids, like, any kids, or, like, any adopted children, or any shit like that. Well, do you think it's important to note that I think every single person on this earth has some type of childhood trauma? Absolutely. Because I think it's nearly impossible. Yeah, you can't, you're not doing a job as a parent if you haven't fucked up your kid at least a little bit. Exactly. Like, if you raised your kid without problems, that means you've sheltered them to a point that's absolutely unhinged and insane, and you should probably take your child to a therapist. Yeah, but that's probably also a trauma, because they don't even know how to function with other people at this point. Yeah. Yeah, you've heard stories like Mama's Boys, you know? Yeah, yeah. Mama's Boys and Daddy's Girls are people who just chill with their one parent and are, like, you know, helicopter-parented in their, like, late 30s. Like, at their wedding, it's more like their mom's wedding than anything else. That's so true, but I think that's one of those things where it's, like, so important to, like, have, like, the resources to, like, educate people and be, like, so that, like, parents know how to literally help parents. Yeah. Because I think, like, of course, like, they always have, like, the books of, like, parenting for dummies and stuff like that, and I always laugh about it when I see it, but in reality it's, like, it's actually really helpful. I think it actually will help a lot of, like, parents. Yeah. Especially parents who come from, like, other cultures, because if you learn the parenting styles of one culture and you're used to it, you will inflict the same generational traumas that people in that culture tend to inflict. Yeah, that makes sense. Like, if you're going to traumatize your kid, at least traumatize them in the same way that other people traumatize their kids in the local area. Yeah. You have to know who to help you. At least some of them will know what to do. Yeah. But you know, the topic of, like, relational turbulence with, like, religious trauma is very prevalent, and a lot of people deal with that. Oh, absolutely. So actually one of the articles I used for my research was literally based on identity gaps and relational vulgarity in interfaith family relationships. And I'm not saying you're not interfaith, but you still feel that gap between your parents. Oh, I sort of am, because, like, my mom's Christian and my dad's Jewish, which makes me half-Jewish, but the wrong half-Jewish. So I'm not technically Jewish enough for Jews, but I'm not Christian enough for Christians. So I'm sitting there in the in-between, just kind of like... Do you identify with both? Not really. I more of identify with wanting to... My religious beliefs are very funny in the sense that if there is a single god, I will fight him. If there are multiple gods, I will fight the lead god. No, it's... That's my favorite joke to make, but in all seriousness, though, I find the existence of a god about as comforting as the existence of man-eating tigers. Okay. Like, I appreciate it, but also there's a sort of cosmic horror about a being that knows when you are sleeping, when you're awake, everything you do has all this buoyancy. Santa Claus and God are the same thing. What? Santa Claus is God. Exactly. Yeah. But, like, a lot of my research, what I was talking about was, like, the accommodation in the family, how you might kind of navigate those differences. So parents of children might adopt their communication styles by emphasizing or distancing themselves from these, like, stereotypes. Like, if your father kind of expects you to marry a Jewish man, that's kind of like a, okay, maybe we don't need to hone in on that. You know? Like, we can be cohesive in a more general, broader sense. We don't have to be super strict with it, and you don't have to follow societal expectations either. And in addition to that, another identified communication strategy could be, like, avoiding these family-related topics, that physical distance, that's kind of like an avoidance strategy. But it could be necessary in certain families where the turbulence can get really, really disruptive. You know? Yeah. So that's kind of the nonverbal tactic, where you just kind of avoid it, and you just kind of separate. And that happens a lot, you know, where, like, you just don't talk that much, you kind of live far from each other, because you really can't find that, like, common ground with your family. And it happens. That's where estrangement comes through, you know? Yeah. But, yeah, these are all great topics, I think, you know, what we said. Therapy's always an option. Just, if there's, because you can't always have that, like, open conversation. It's not always available. You're not always able to access that. So, personal therapy, group therapy. Yeah, and they can, like, ask the right questions to, like, help you, like, kind of, like, analyze what's going on. Like, help you realize, like, how you can improve. Like, they won't necessarily give you the answers, but they will help you find the answers. Yeah, definitely. So, like, I took therapy, like, for the first time, like, I got into it, because I have, like, a really tough friendship breakup and everything. And, like, my therapist was going, like, deep down into, like, asking such good questions. And I'm like, my parents could, like, never, but it's, like, so important to have, like, a therapist, like, in our life. Like, even though we think that we don't need help, it's, like, good to have one, like, in life in general, because, like, you never know, like, where, like, life's going to, like, take you and all. Yeah, absolutely. It's like having someone judge you, but in a positive way. Yeah. You know, they're not just sitting there going, oh, I don't like your hair. No, they're sitting there, they're going, honey, maybe we shouldn't cut our hair in the middle of the night during a mental breakdown. Yeah, I don't think that's a great idea. But, yeah, I feel like it's also important, if you are seeking, like, professional help, to find a therapist you can kind of be comfortable enough with to talk about the uncomfortable stuff. Like, my experience in therapy didn't go so well. Well, first off, my first one was a man. That's, like, not the best, because I was trying to explain things to him, and he just couldn't get it. He just was, like, it just wasn't vibing, and I feel like I felt, by the end of my sessions, I was just, like, mm, no, this isn't working. So then I had to change to a woman. And what happened was, this was, like, a fairly young woman, she was white, she was born in America, and she really couldn't understand the kind of, like, generational trauma, the kind of cultural trauma. She really just couldn't kind of feel that and, like, help me. So, again, I was just, like, I feel like I'm talking, and I'm not really getting the feedback I wanted. And she did her best. But, so then, when I went to go find another therapist, I was definitely looking for someone who could be maybe an immigrant, maybe a child of immigrants, maybe Muslim, maybe definitely a woman. But that was actually, like, something very important. Someone who can kind of understand you. Yeah, someone who can relate to you. Yeah, who can really know where you're coming from, you know? So, but I think that's really helpful. And I think that the best example of that is when you have, like, a friend or a sister or someone who you know, but, like, you don't want to talk to them about important things in your life, right? Because you don't know where that goes. You don't know, because when you tell someone one thing, it becomes public knowledge. So that's why it's good to find therapists, but you need to find someone who can fill that slot, you know? So that can be difficult. But if you're ever, you know, pursuing that or looking for a therapist, definitely find someone you're going to be comfortable with to talk about these things. It's hard. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But, I mean, cultural disparity, that's a really important topic. So let's hear about that. Yeah, totally. So, like, with a lot of, like, cultural, like, backgrounds, like, there's a lot of, like, lack of trust, mental health issues going on. And even with, like, Asian, like, cultural backgrounds, like, it tends to, like, add a lot. And, like, something that I found is that, like, low parental expectations could indicate lack of supportive structure in the family, which may lead to externalizing problems. And, like, that can, like, literally be with, like, school, with jobs, like, even, like, careers and all that. Yeah, I think one of the important two causes is because Chinese parents, they usually put their words, it depends on their parents. Like, if they are successful by themselves, others will say to them, like, even you are successful, but your children is not successful, so you are not a successful person. Yeah. Even though this person, she or him is not very successful, but they educate the successful children, and others will say to them, like, you are successful because you have successful children, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, they would put more expectations on their children. Yeah. Definitely with, like, school, like, even with, like, siblings and all that, if you, like, have, like, kind of, like, an older sibling or stuff, and, like, your older sibling is doing, like, really well in, like, school and all that, they, like, your parents, like, expect you to, like, work as hard as they can to, like, get to, like, a prestigious university, get, like, the grades that you need to become, like, a doctor or something. And that can lead to a lot of, like, mental health problems with, like, the kids and all that, which is, like, a problem that's, like, even, like, going on, like, now and all that. Yeah. Even though they're, most of the schools in Chinese, they have the list of the scores, and they will tell their parents, so, your child, this test grade is the first one or the last one, something like that, and other children and their parents also know their grades, so. Yeah. Yeah. Like, literally, like, I even remember, like, getting, like, compared a lot to, like, my cousins and all that, like, no, literally, like, parents, like, literally my aunts and uncles would just literally brag about how, like, well their child's doing. They're, like, oh, I got into this university, I'm, like, studying this, and, like, they're maintaining, like, a 4.0 GPA and all that, and then I'm just here, like, yeah, that's great and all, like, he's talking about it, and, like. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't know, like, it's just, like, a lot to, like, process, like, especially, like, hearing them, it's, like, really hard, like, to, like, hear that. Like, have any of you, like, experienced that? Yeah, I've definitely experienced that. Mom would literally come to me and be, like, you know, like, whatever, she would talk about her friends, like, her daughter is studying, like, business or something, whatever, in Washington, D.C., and I'd be, like, that's great, and then she'd be, like, what are you studying? Because she wanted me to give her kind of, like, a tagline, so she could, like, tell her friends, so I was, like, I'm telling your friends that I'm studying English and communication, and they'd be, like, what is English? I'm, like, Mom, do you just, it's just, like, she wanted to be able to say something to make it sound cool, you know, to make it sound, like, nice. Yeah. So, like, when I was in the pharmacy school, she loved it. She was, like, yeah, I guess he's in pharmacy, I guess he's, like, doing pharmacy, it sounds For them, better. They put more value on that. And then Ashley was, like, oh, I don't know, I don't want to say that. I'm just, like, okay, don't. I mean, yeah. You could always do what my parents did, and so for a very long time in my life, my family was convinced that I'd become some sort of writer, so every time I was around, they'd be, like, this is my child, the writer. Yeah. Even though I had, I'd never written anything outside of for an assignment. Okay. And I got, like, compliments from teachers, and they were, like, this is what my kid's going to do now. Yeah. No, I feel the same way. I feel like I, like, you try to, like, make things sound good for them because they want to feel that pride, and they want to, you know, show their friends, and the thing is, all their friends are also, you know, immigrants, right? So they all have that same mentality of, like, what can I flex? What's the strongest flex here? How can I make my kids proud? How can I make my kids proud? Because I feel like they feel as if they couldn't accomplish it themselves, they want to live my character through us, you know? That cultural gap of, like, we talked about before, like, they felt that pressure to just do whatever, like, the easiest route to comfort, whereas we feel like, because we're here and we're safe, we feel that we have that, like, that availability to go and explore, maybe try different things, and not go to the given route that's already been taken, you know? So they just don't want to understand that. But that's where that, like, communication comes in, where you can talk about that and kind of explore those cultural gaps. And instead of building that trauma, like, I'm sure, Ruby, I'm sure you felt that, like, trauma of that pressure from your parents to be, like, getting good grades, you know? And honestly, I feel like, I feel like I probably won't even break that cycle. Like, I feel like it's been me so hard to, like, value grace, value success in academic success. Like, that academic pressure is really hard. Oh, yeah, no, that's totally true. And actually, according to, like, one of, like, my articles, like, not being able to fulfill high levels of parental academic expectations by performing poorly in school, and, like, can lead to, like, parental, like, child conflict, anxiety, depression. It can even lead to, like, a sense of failure and all that. And that's, like, a lot for, like, just to, like, sit with and all that. And, like, it's, like, really hard, especially, like, seeing people, like, go through that. Like, I've seen, like, some of my other cousins, like, go through that and all that. Like, it's, like, really hard and everything. And, like, it leads to, like, a lot of, like, you know, like, depression, anxiety. Yeah. And I think it also relates to, like, one of the articles that I was talking about where it's, like, even the smallest amount of trauma can already, like, trigger, like, a trauma response. Like, no matter how big it is. Yeah, definitely, definitely. And I think in the cultural part, I found an article, it's why are Chinese mothers more controlling than American mothers. And I think one point is sometimes Chinese parents, they treat their children not as an individual person. Sometimes, like, pets, like, if you want to go outside to play, if you want to do something, okay, sit down, give me your hand, turn around. You should make me happy and satisfied first. Then I may do something for you. Or sometimes I think I do these things because I love you, but you should be obeying, listening. If you are not following the rules, you are not a good boy or girl or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting, the idea of, like, parents don't see you as your own person. They see you as an extension of themselves. Exactly. That's the sort of thing that's really common in Russian households as well. Because, again, Russia is this big continent of just people who are kind of stuck in the past, I want to say. Like, it's still common, like, relatively common for people to dress up really nice to go to, like, the grocery store. Just for the sake of it. Like, I appreciate those vibes, but I'm just, like, that's so much. Yeah. You don't need to go to college, you know. Yeah. I think it's hard a lot of the times where they don't understand that, like, I know this isn't true for you too, but, like, we were born in America. You know? Like, we're American. I wish I was. But, like, that being said is that, like, they've come here. I've heard this argument so many times where they're like, you moved here so your kids could be born here, but you don't want your kids to be American. You know? They want to keep that culture, which I think culture is so important and you should definitely keep that. But also acknowledge that. Sorry. Okay. I think it's also important to acknowledge that, like, there will be influence from American culture as well. So you're not 100% going to be like them because they were raised so differently. They were raised on different values. They were born in a different country. We're born here. You're going to have that gap. You can't. You can't. You can't. But they're going to always be there. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Like, probably, like, their parents just, like, raised them in a different way. Yeah. And, like, their parents, like, expected them to, like, do, like, so much. Yeah. And then our parents, like, are putting, like, the same, like, way that their parents, like, treated, like, like them. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Oh, I was just going to say that, like, my family, given that they're not big fans of the Soviet Union and that's why they left, they're actively trying to ditch their old culture. So they're diving so hard into the American dream. Really? It's kind of becoming detrimental, if that makes sense. Like, they're going, USA, USA. In reality, we do not scream USA, USA while wearing red, white, and blue. Like, no, no. So they're trying to adapt. They're doing their best to adapt to America, but they still have Russian values, if that makes sense. Yeah. I wonder what language do they speak to each other at home when no one else is there. At home, it's Russian, but they speak English for just about every other thing. So unless it's literally just the two of them alone or it's the two of them and some relatives, it's usually English. Do they speak Russian to you and your siblings? They did teach us Russian, but the only reason they did that is so that we can talk to our family members. Oh, that's nice. Well, that's nice, because they're not expressing like we were talking about before. I mean, they're doing the opposite, but I think at least they're giving it to you a little bit. Like, you still have the language. I want to say they still, you know, when I was younger, I had some severe mental health problems, and they just straight up ignored it because they're like, there's nothing wrong with my American child. Americans don't have mental health problems. Immigrants don't believe in mental illness. It's not a thing. These are my red, white, and blue kids. Neither of them have any issues whatsoever. They are perfect. And yeah, essentially, it was just absolute chaos for kid me trying to get help. I really like how you said cultural families don't really go to therapy that much, because that is actually kind of true. I got into therapy very late and all that, and I just realized, man, I could have done this so much earlier and really got the help that I needed and all that. And even my mom and dad thinks this day, like, oh, I don't need therapy and all that. But then my parents are like, my mom especially, she would just vent to me about what's going on with her friends and all that. And I'm like, you should really go to therapy. I think all my parents could use therapy. It would be so helpful. You know, I didn't tell anyone when I wanted to start therapy. I did it secretly. I did the day that no one knew that I did it. In order to get any help whatsoever, it had to go through the school. It took me reaching a breaking point in high school for them to even consider therapy. They're like, okay, this one's definitely broken. I don't know how. It's not my fault. Let's maybe take it to therapy, perhaps. Do you have resentment towards them? A little bit, but it's more of like, it's not resentment towards them as they are. It's more like resentment towards what their culture has made them. Generational trauma. Yes, generational trauma. There you go. All right, that brings us to a great circle. Yeah. That really rounded off for us. So let's just visit back to our case study with May and her father, Ling. And let's just see kind of how we can resolve their problem. What could they do to understand each other better? Yeah, so we talked about a lot of good, we had some good suggestions. And let's just see what else we could do. So we talked about open and honest communication. We talked about counseling and therapy. We talked about patience and empathy. Another thing we could talk about is kind of encouraging that community of cultures to share in that. So like we said, here we see May and her father, Ling, are really struggling with their differences in their cultural upbringings. So we can kind of see in a certain scenario where they might participate in like cultural activities together where they can share their heritage. And it will kind of bond to them, you know, and they'll kind of understand each other better through that. Yeah, I think that's really smart. I think it will make them connect a little bit more and like also more willing to understand each other and help each other. Yeah, willingness is very important. Yeah. Totally. And I think just another thing, we've been regularly reassessing the situation. I think with this type of situation, the main conflict is, of course, you know, May wanting to go to fashion school. But that's definitely rooted in that like generational trauma and that cultural and identity gap. So here we see May struggles with her identity as a first generation American caught between her Chinese heritage and her American socialization. As we said, you know, I feel that a lot as me being like American born and my parents are not. You feel that gap, definitely. But so her choice of a creative and less traditional career path, it symbolizes her American influence and her kind of wanting to be more self-expressive. But it conflicts with her father's more Chinese values of, you know, community and stability and that value of like that doctoral high STEM education, you know. So this gap is a source of a lot of tension. And I hope that, you know, they figure it out. But, yeah. And then you can talk on the childhood impact and family dynamics. Oh, yeah. So with the childhood impact and family dynamics, excuse me, Ling's traumatic childhood and the hardships of his early life in America often lead him to overprotect May, fearing that any deviation from a safe path might lead to suffering. May, however, raised is a more stable and open environment, perceives these fears as controlling, not understanding the full extent of her father's past pains. So, yeah. What would you guys like to say? Yeah, I think that definitely, you know, like he's being overprotective. He's coming from a good place. Like Jennifer said before, they both have, like Rose, you said, they have the same goals, right? They both want May to succeed. They want her to do well. And he has a different view of what is success, and so does she. So they need to navigate that and break that generational trauma. Absolutely. And the father in this case study's response is heavily influenced by his traumatic experiences during his youth in China, where instability and upheaval were pretty common. His migration journey out of the way is a struggle shaping a world view where security is paramount. He's more interested in security than he is, you know, enjoyment of that. His trauma manifests in his parenting, where he, again, prioritizes his financial security over personal fulfillment, which kind of screws with May a little bit. I mean, it would screw with anybody, I'd say, if they put money over your happiness. That's so true. My parents are the same. They value financial security over life, pleasure, enjoyment, you know. They don't understand, like, passion jobs. They're, like, following your passion. They're, like, why aren't you a doctor? That's it. So, yeah. I'm lucky that my family's a little more, like, sure about certain job things. Because, like, they're more along the lines of, yeah. Yeah. So, everyone, let's wrap up on today's journey into the chamber of trauma. Thank you all for joining us. And I hope today's episode brought you some insights and maybe even sparked a little, you know, hope for mending those intricate ties of, you know, trauma. Keep reflecting, keep connecting, and most importantly, keep healing. Take care, and see you next time on the Chamber of Trauma, where we continue to turn tough talks into transformative conversations. Bye!