Scarlets Fever: There is much to discuss after the Glasgow game

In this episode of Scarlet's Fever, Lee G is joined by guest Ben Evans to discuss the Wales Women's rugby game against England. They acknowledge that England is a strong team and Wales showed improvement compared to last year, but still have work to do in terms of being more ruthless in the 22 and making the right choices. They also mention some stats from the game, including Wales edging the territory and England giving away more penalties. Overall, they find the game enjoyable to watch and look forward to the upcoming match against Ireland. They briefly mention Ireland's disappointing result against Italy and express their excitement for future games. They also mention that they will discuss the women's game more in the next episode. Lastly, they talk about community games, but Martin's spreadsheet is difficult to read. Welcome to Scarlet's Fever, the home of Suspense Central and Westerer is Besterer. Hello and welcome to this week's edition of Scarlet's Fever with me, Lee G, and in a change to the usual line-up, Martin has had an upgrade this week, so I've still got Cat Boy with me, evening Hugh. Good evening. Evening, and Martin has been upgraded, he's not going to like that way he comes back, is he? He's not going to like me saying that. We're joined this week by Ben Evans, good evening Ben. Charity boys, how you doing? Good man, good. So just kind of give everyone a flavour of who you are and why you love the Scarlets and all that kind of stuff, mate, just so they know you're genuine and all of that kind of stuff. No, I'm genuine. Well, my name's Ben Evans, as has been said. I'm an actor, stroke singer, stroke class clown. Yeah, followed the Scarlets all my life. I'm a Hendy boy, I was born in Carmarthen, but we moved to Hendy temporarily about 40 years ago, still there. And yeah, I remember going to Stradi Park and seeing the glory days. I was there, the Australia game, November 92, was that? Colin Stephens Day, that was, yeah, kind of one of my first experiences with the Scarlets, so I don't get much better than that. I probably peaked, very much like my acting and singing career, I probably peaked 30-odd years ago. But yeah, I mean, I still try and go and watch the boys as much as I can, and I lived in London for a long time, so Scarlets, at the time, were the only good story coming out of Welsh rugby at that time with our European games and stuff. So that's the only way I could give it back to the English, really. So thank you, Scarlets. See, I remember that Australia game, because I mitched off school that day. And I got home and I thought, all right, okay, this will be good. And I put the key in the door, and then I realised that my dad's work van was there. I'm like, oh shit, dad's taking the afternoon off work. So I sat there and watched the Australia game with dad, and we were both like, we won't tell mum, we won't tell mum, we'll just watch the game, we'll watch it, yeah. And another story, one more thing of mitching. When I was a youngster, so when I was under eight, and all the way through to under 12, I played at Bonnie Mine. So I'd gone up there to play, my uncle was kind of up there and coaching, so I went up to Bonnie Mine to play, and we won British Team of the Month. And as the Sun newspaper were running that competition, we hadn't lost in about three seasons. And we got to train against that famous Tenerife team. So at the time I was playing prop, and Colin Poggey, or Starkey, as they used to say, and I propped down against Dai Joseph, and Richard Fenton was on the other, yeah, it was brilliant. I think I went underneath through Tony Copsey's legs. And yeah, that's my claim to fame. I think quite a lot of people went underneath Tony Copsey, because he was massive, wasn't he? Cool. Okay, well, we've got loads of stuff to talk about this week. So just so everyone knows, Martin is sending himself in Devon. He's taken his whole brood for the week to Devon, which is one full train of about eight carriages. Martin's shipped them all off down to Devon. So yeah, he says he's enjoying it, but he's on WhatsApp an awful lot. You know, for somebody who's enjoying his holiday, he's on WhatsApp an awful lot. You're going to be in shit with the wife next week now when she finds out. So yeah, let's start with Wales Women. Let's start at the top and work our way down. So what did you make of it? I mean, we were all expecting a bit of a hammering on the weekend. And I mean, it wasn't that much of a hammering, but we got tanked. So what did you make of it? So Ben, as our guest, what did you make of the Wales Women game, mate? It's difficult, isn't it, to gauge any kind of game against, I suppose, England, France and New Zealand. Women are playing a different sport. They're so far ahead, aren't they? So it's difficult to gauge. But England are probably at the same level as they have been and consistent the last couple of years. So Wales 20 points better off than last year. So that's progression, I suppose. There were some good moments. They got in the 22 a bit. It was just about taking the chances, but it just seems to be that Welsh rugby line at the moment of progression and a work in progress. And that just seems to be it at the moment. But I think definitely green shoots of positivity. But it's probably more of a mentality thing than a player thing. I think it's just getting, becoming more ruthless in the 22 and making the right choices. But England are just, they can just step on the gas whenever they want to. I mean, they're probably the best team in the world, aren't they? And quite comfortably in there. So Hugh, what did you make of it, mate? Yeah, I didn't manage to catch the whole game, unfortunately, but some of the stats are OK. I will say that finding stats on the women's game is a bit of a nightmare. A lot of the normal sources that vital stats even for URC games are kind of lagging when it comes to cover the International Women's Games, which is really disappointing. Alex Callender, again, was outstanding. Obviously, a Briton player, so we love her. Top carrier, top tackler. So that's great. She was great against Scotland as well. Wales actually edged the territory, 51 to 49 percent, which you wouldn't normally expect. And it's got 12, 22 entries compared to England's 16. So still, obviously, England, like Ben said, could pretty much put the hammer down when they chose to and get some points on the boards. But yeah, managed to play in the right areas, do a lot of good things, but unfortunately not turn it into scoreboard. I wonder whether maybe there might have been some opportunities to kick it a bit more. We didn't give away too many penalties, gave away nine, which isn't the end of the world. England actually gave away 15. But you actually find that some of the top sides actually give away a lot of penalties at the moment. It's just where they do them and how they do it. They give away good penalties. We'll talk about that more when we get to the Scarlet scheme. Is that them competing more at the breakdown as well and maybe getting on, you know, they're not picking and choosing as much when to go, they're kind of competing at every breakdown and not afraid to kind of get pinged in certain areas? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I remember speaking about some, like the All Blacks when they were in their pomp, like whether it be Richard McCaw or Kieran Reid would get pinged early in games a lot, but that's because they were finding out where the line was with the referee and things. So it's the ref, not the law, you know? Yeah, exactly. And I think it's kind of, you know, when you're that street smart, you go, I'll give away a penalty here because if, say, you're in the corner by the touchline, it's like, well, they're not going to kick for posts from here. So we'll just, and we're comfortable defending the line out. So maybe that's a bit of it. I'll have to watch the game again. But Wales conceded 23 turnovers in this game, which is obviously anything north of 20 is a bit of a shocker, to be honest. Like we said, you know, definitely improvement, definitely on the scoreline. I forget it was away as well and last year was at home. Yeah, so it's just, we knew what to expect coming to this game. So I don't think anybody's disappointed or upset about it. It's just the reality of the gap of England in particular. I expect they'll do that to everybody except France in this tournament, to be honest. I think for me, it was actually quite enjoyable to watch. You know, even, I don't get to watch many women's games. So having it actually on the box and, you know, right smack bang in front of you made it much more accessible. And yeah, it was enjoyable to watch. Some of the, the amount of pressure that we put England under was, and you felt like, okay, yeah, we're building, we're building, there's a trike coming, turnover, 80 metres, two phases, trike. So there were bits like that, you're like, oh, that's good. But then we kept putting them back under pressure. So, yeah, you can kind of see that there's stuff coming there and it did genuinely get me kind of, you know, up and at it. You know, I wouldn't say I was throwing my slippers at the telly, the dogs weren't scared, the dogs were sitting on my lap, they weren't hiding. But yeah, it was definitely a good game to watch. So in my head now, when we play Ireland next, isn't it? Yeah. So I'm ticked in for that, I'm right, okay. Ireland had a very disappointing result against Italy as well. Yeah. I was pretty shocked with that. I thought that was probably, yeah, that was a big kind of shock. But it's only good for the game. I think you're right, I think that as a game, I'll definitely be, like you say, put that down to watch now, then I have to see the progression and stuff. After the Scotland game, not quite, but Wales-England, you know, you've got to watch Wales-England, haven't you? So that's a good arc and how to kind of go again, but yeah. Hmm. Okay, so we'll have more time to talk about the women's game next week. I'm hoping that we can work some magic and find some guests to come on. But we will talk more about the Wales women game next week, because we've got a community game to talk about. And Martin has left me his list of community games. Now, normally, I do spreadsheets. Yeah, I do spreadsheets. That's what my job is. I do spreadsheets. And then Martin's done a spreadsheet and bugger me, I mean, come on, Mark. There's a reason why, you know, so at the start of the season, Martin was complaining that we were messing around with his spreadsheets and he couldn't find anything. So I opened Martin's spreadsheet about 10 minutes before we came on here. Bugger me. There's a reason why you can't read anything on there, Martin. It's because you can't bloody work out what's on there. So stuff on Martin's spreadsheet. So we'll go down and do all the community game properly. Okay, because I can kind of work out what's going on there. But I'm going to leave this stuff for Martin next week, because he can work out what to say. Martin loves a double community update. He loves it. And he can come in. He rubs his hand and he's like, right, okay, I'm back. I'm pumped. And he can do the double fixtures as well. And he said, as of last week, they were due to play this team. And now they've played this team. And now I can tell you the result of that. He can do it next week. He can bugger off and have tea while he's doing his community update. So things for Martin to do next week. Okay, so men's under 18s, Wales against England. I am confused about the under 18s Six Nations Festival, because you play like two games a day. There's something about that that I have not understood. I think that's the women's game because on the women's thing, he's got Wales against France and then Wales against Scotland. And then there's some names there, but he hasn't got the whole name. So I'm not going to insult anyone with going F Jones and P Morgan, because I don't know who they are. So I'm going to leave that to Martin for next week. And if he complains, tough, don't go on holiday with your family. His wife's going to be annoyed with me now as well. Yeah. So one game that was on telly last week was Newport v Wembley. Now we picked this up last week because this was huge for Clandevery and we were all expecting a fairly close game. 24-6 loss against Newport. I mean, Jeff Davis went down with what we suspect was a broken leg at the time. I haven't seen an update on it, but it looked quite nasty and that was quite early in the game. And then, yeah, we just didn't look like they were in it. I'll be honest. You watch the first 10 minutes and the scrum was like, it was like they were scrumming against children, absolutely shoving them backwards, like no one's business. You're thinking, oh, this could be a bit of a walk over here. And then there was a really good opportunity early on when the ball went back inside and it went to ground and the guy just drops it, it would have been a walk in. And then never really like scoring a try again. Newport are like the entertainers of the league. And they got a couple of breakaway tries. There was a tap and go in the first half. There was a breakaway, I don't think it was an intercept, but it was a race down the touchline by the winger in the second half. And then there was a pushover try from Amal and that was kind of it. So I don't think the scoreline necessarily reflected the game because it was squeaky, but it's just three moments that Newport got right. But I suspect this isn't the last time these two will play each other this season. They're not playing them in the cup, are they? Oh, you mean now in the playoffs. Sorry, yeah. I was wondering, I thought you were pissed for two minutes there, mate. I thought you were on something weird. Okay, so the other game in the premiership was when Quinns pulled off a 22-20 win against Pontypridd, which... They had taken 17 points. See, I just knew I wouldn't even need to say the name. It was just, there it is. But apparently he had a very good game, he was playing with Archie inside him as well. So yeah, that's all good for the future of the Scarlets. I expect to see those two together on the pitch before the end of the season. So, right, now this is where we get complicated, okay, because I'm on Martin's spreadsheet now. So this week against Fixtures, I've just got Carmarthen against Carmarthen Quinns, okay? So down into Championship West. So Narberth played Brecon and lost 25-20. Gutted should have been a win. Newcastle Emlyn lost 27-20 at home to Trebanos. Fixtures for this week, Ammanford host Brecon, Frangenich host Bonnermine. Oh, that's one for you, Ben. It's my Ben Evans derby. Well, third against fourth. I don't know if I'm being funny, we're all hoping that Frangenich give them a right tonking, because, yeah, Bonnermine is too far east. They're not really west, right? You know, they're kind of there, but they're not. I'll be supporting them that day, don't worry. And then we've got Newcastle Emlyn hosting Narberth again. Now, Narberth on the back of two weeks now, two losses in two weeks, which is not like them at all. Down into one west, so Kidwelly 41, Aberystwyth 27, Velen Boyle beat Hendy 21-13. Should we skip over that one, Ben? We'll move on. I would like to, but we have got a lot of... We played midweek against Dunavant in the cup, but a strong team out there. In hindsight, would you have gone light there and saved yourself for the weekend? We have got a lot of injuries. Best scrum in the league, but the injuries are kind of catching us out now, but still been, overall, pretty good season. Nobody likes losing to them on vol, do they? So, Whitland lost 50 points to Neil against Leicester Wanderers, which, yeah, at least they're the best of them. So, fixtures for this weekend, Burry Port host Kidwelly, Gysaiden host Aberystwyth, Gowerton host Velen Boyle and Whitland host Pontardyllwys. So, is there no game for Hendy this weekend, then? No, not this weekend, which would be quite good for us, I think, because we can get a bit of recoup and try and get a few bodies back. See, this is why Martin does it. Martin digests the fixture list and you can say to Martin, who was so-and-so playing on the second week of May, and he's like that, and then I've got to try and read what he's written. Um, okay. One West Central, uh, only team that we've got interested in is, uh, Brenham and lost 31-12 at home to Greenleaf, and they are playing Biltwells this weekend. Still, where do we go next? Hang on, I've got to work my way around Martin's spreadsheet, boys. Hang on a tick, because, mate, there we go. Hang on. Right, two West, so, Carmarthen Athletic lost 28-19 at home to Ticroise. Fishguard drew 22-all against Mumbles. Lampeter, Ammon United, was postponed. Milford beat Nant Garedig 19-12. Big shout-out to Milford, I'll tell you why in a minute. And Tenby beat Lougher 38-23, which is fantastic, because nobody likes Lougher. So, uh, yeah, Carmarthen into Ticroise on there, then, Ben. I'm guessing not too happy with that one, then, mate? Not really, but, well, yeah, I mean, it is what it is. It is what it is. Cool. So, yeah, Milford, so I'm going to give a big shout-out to Milford, because I've asked the favour of them this week. So, they used to have a big picture in the players' lounge, which used to be my dad, when he was playing, when he played Ebbw Vale in the quarterfinal of the Welsh Cup at some point in the 70s. And somebody said to me, oh, the picture's gone, the picture of my dad's gone. So, I messaged them, and I said, oh, any chance, if you're not leaving the picture up, can I have it? Because I haven't got any photos of my dad when he was playing. So, fearfully, they're having a look. They're going to see what they can find. They know where all the pictures have gone. So, yeah, if they can find it, or if anybody in Milford has got any photos of my dad when he was playing, then, by all means, yeah, give us a shout, because that would be great. So, fixtures for this weekend. So, that winner with Lachar puts Tenby back at second place in the table, I think now, which is why that game was important. So, fixtures for this weekend. Lampeter, who are now in third against Lachar in fourth. So, Lampeter can do one over Lachar. No one likes Lachar. That puts in a good position for Tenby going up as well. Milford host Amman United, St Clair's host Mumbles, Tenby host Fishguard, and Ticrois host Carmarthen Athletic. In three-USA, there are only two games. Aberaeron 22, Larn 26, and Pembroke lost 13-45 to Cardigan, which is an absolute joke for Pembroke, I'll be honest. Fixtures this weekend, then, Aberaeron host St David's, Haverford West host Larn, and Pembroke host Llanaboda. They're now, da, da, da, three-West B. Betis and Llandelo was postponed. Kev Nathan beat Flander B, 35-27. Furness beat Binya, 25-10, and Llangadog beat Trensaren 18-10 at home. Fixtures for this weekend, Llangadog host Llandeby on Wednesday night, Betis, who's host Trensaren, Kev Nathan host Furness, Tumble travel to Llandelo, Llandeby host New Dock Stard, and Tregaren host Binya. We're still not done, boys. We're still not done. There's stuff left. Bye, Lord Tumble. That'll be a good game. See, I don't know. See, this is where, Martin, this is where you might be handy, because you know more about those kind of stuff. Like, that's the shit Martin knows, see? Me and Hugh are sitting there most of the time, and Martin's going, so-and-so used to play for them, and now plays for them, and he coaches them, and he plays for them, and his mother does the tees for them. I'm missing out on the reasons the game was postponed. Like, the Scromafs misses his uncle's rabbit escapes, and the whole team was out searching for it. Like, something like that. That's the bits I'm missing. I've got two postponements, and we don't know what it is. My favourite ever postponement story from the histories of rugby is in the 1950s, Von had a game postponed because their origins was as they were on the barracks of a paratrooper regiment, and a war broke out, and all the paratroopers had to go off and fight in the war, so the game was postponed. Well, a long time ago, my granddad used to live in St David's, and half of the St David's team were lifeboat crew, and literally in the middle of a game, I think they were getting tanked anyway, but half-time, the call goes off, and like 10 players just went like that, and the referees going like, ready to start the second half, and everyone's just legging it, and like, jumped onto somebody's cars, and somebody's... I bet you someone lodged a complaint with the WRU. They need to exclude you from the league for that. Yeah, I see. So, let's go, where are we, 5 West Central, Cwmgrach beat Panter Funon 53-24, Folbey beat Pen-y-bank 23-9, fixtures for this weekend, Panter Funon are hosting Ponty Yeats, and then we're down into youth cup matches, and all of this kind of stuff, so I'm going to apologise to all of our youth boys, because Martin does know all the youth stuff, and who's doing what, and he's got all of your fixtures on there, guys, but we'll do it next week, because, well, I need to film next week's show for one, because there's no Scarless game to review next week, but yeah, Martin will do you justice, whereas I will just kind of read stuff off, and I won't have a clue who's doing what. Okay, so, yeah, there's like 30, 40 odd lines of stuff, and it goes over to the... Jesus Christ, Martin, this is why he needs a holiday, because he spends all of his life working out who's playing who, in which round of this, we've got youth trophies, youth cup, youth bowl, youth plate, that's a big one for next week, boys, trust me on that one, right, we've escaped on that one, we'll leave that to Martin next week. So, let's have a little chat about, first of all, let's discuss the news from last week, the announcement that came up. So, have you got any announcement in front of you, Huw? I have, it was a bugger to find it, I've had to go on the Scarlet's website to find it, and as we know on this podcast, if you have to find yourself on the Scarlet's website, it's not a good start, right, but I found it eventually. Right, I won't read the whole thing, because it's long, but it's interestingly portrayed as Simon Mudrach is the one putting this out, so it's very much this is Simon coming out and saying this is how it's going to be, it's how it's portrayed. So, basically, what's happening is, the Scarlet's are going to recruit a new rugby performance director to work alongside Dwayne Peel and support him, we'll talk a bit more about what we actually expect that to mean in real terms in a second. Rugby general manager John Daniels will lead operations of Scarlet's managing director, which we understand may be a form of a promotion, a kick upstairs. We have reached out to the Scarlet's for clarification on all of this, by the way, and we're waiting to hear back. A new head of development pathway is to be appointed, and we'll maybe briefly touch on that first, because I think that's the quickest to talk about, and Phil Morgan was chief operating officer and is now chief financial officer. So, apparently, he's a chartered accountant, and he's going to be focusing purely on the money side of things. So, there's a big, long statement. Simon has also done an interview with Steph Thomas, who is the Scarlet's plant at Wales Online. And, yeah, so, big news, a lot of people have had a lot to say about this. There's a clip on YouTube of Simon actually talking about it and explaining it. If anybody wants to see that, it's on the Scarlet's YouTube. It was also posted in full on Twitter. So, where do we want to start? So, we'll start with the pathway and development manager. So, a lot of people, Sneddon is the guy who people have in their minds. So, it seems that they want him to focus on coaching, and the admin side of it is more what this person will be looking at. I thought you were going to start with the fact that the social media team had actually found a way of making a video. I thought that was going to be your first dig. Just as an aside, there is a clip from the Barbarians game in this video that looks very good. It's very well shot. They had cameras there. Ben, that's a very sore spot for me that that Barbarians game wasn't streamed or televised in any way. But we know that there was cameras there because we've seen clips from it. But anyway, that's not the point this week. That was like two months ago. I know. You know what, though? That is absolutely spot on. If that doesn't sum up what the Scarlet's are about lately. I mean, that was huge. I spoke to Rory Lawson, who was head of Barbarians communications and stuff. They were pushing for it. Supposedly it was the Scarlet's that were blocking it off. We played Exeter in a friendly. It wasn't streamed. Exeter played the army in a friendly, the British army in a friendly. That was streamed. Yeah. Say no more. Anyway, the social media team found a video and took it. It was a really high quality. Yeah. So, Ben, what do you make of it, mate, as a neutral? I mean, is there much wrong with the pathway? Because we're bringing young players through. I don't think that's ever been an issue, has it? There's young boys coming through. Probably the standout players of this year have been the young boys stepping up, especially, you know, Toby Lewis and Eddie's coming through. Joe Roberts has been fantastic in the last two seasons. So, I don't think that is. So, if, you know, it's more about the admin and it takes pressure off that one person, the overriding factor seems to be one person doing a lot of jobs that's not in their remit, including, you know, doing steel and these people. So, if that's getting addressed now, great, but it's still going to take a lot of time to, one, find the people, then to put them into the position and then to clarify and then to get, you know, cohesion with the other kind of units of work and workers. And it's, again, a kind of slow build. It's a little bit both in the stable door when the horse has gone, you know what I mean? It's one of those, it's a little bit late, is it? Yeah, I mean, you're right with the amount of players that do come through the academy and we do have a phenomenal amount of players that come through the scarlets, as you can see by how many of them fill other Welsh teams. And I think that's... And I think that's an Ospreys. Yeah, well, Hardy's off and, is it Steph Thomas is off to the Ospreys as well? Anyway, so, yeah, so, you know, we certainly bring players through and we just can't hold on to them. So, it's more about looking at that pathway. So, I recorded a rap before we came on there as well and spoke about it a little bit on there. And, you know, there's a lot of stuff going around about culture at the minute. And if I tell you, so my boy was involved in the academy last year, in the 18s last year. And for one of the games, you know, so bear in mind, this is Scarlet under 18s, right? So, they announced the team on a Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon when they were playing on the Wednesday or whatever. And, you know, five or six of the boys just went, no, I don't want to play. And they walked away from Scarlet under 18s. That's where the culture was last year. Yeah. And you could see that that was the year before as well. It was there the year before. This year, you can see something has changed. We're standing in charge, something has changed. So, whatever's changed needs to be changed through the academy, through the performance centres and all that kind of stuff. The five performance centres that they've spoken about, Mudra specifically mentioned that. So, it looks like they are taking on board that stuff needs to change. And I think there was probably a little bit of complacency of sitting back and going, you know, look how many players we've developed, look how good we are, look at us, we're amazing. And then ignoring the fact that so many players are walking away and other players are going to other regions and we're not getting a benefit of developing them. So, yeah, I mean, the name that's been thrown around is Gareth Williams. Yeah. Now, I forgot his name for a second, but I knew he was our former defence coach. So, I thought while I'm on Scarlet's website, I wonder if they've updated the coach's defence page. And no, they haven't. So, his name's still on there. So, I've been able to remember what it is. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds about right, actually, to be honest. But he's rumoured to be, so he used to work with Wellesley in the 20s, he knows the system, he knows what's going on. So, yeah. And when he was moved aside from his defensive duties, it did say in that press release that he has been offered a role in the academy. And I think Simon has said in the press release that of the two roles that they're recruiting, one is penciled in and one is they're just going to market now. So, I think it seems like Gareth Williams to this head of development role, head of pathway role is, it's in Gareth Williams' hands of whether he wants the job or not, is really between the lines. I think that is his forte as well, isn't it? I think that's what he specialises in. But would you want to come back to a team that, and an organisation that quite literally chucked you under the bus? Yeah, there's a lot of stuff there that we don't know enough of. And this has always been the case with Scars, they're almost afraid to tell us what's going on. And I think that was the case with Babs, it just kind of happened and then there was an announcement, a bit like this. And we were told that this was a much bigger announcement than what actually came out. We were given hints and tips and we were told about half an hour before this came out that there was going to be an announcement and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then this came up because we whipped up social media. I went, oh, this is it, this is what we've been waiting for, here we go. And people would go like, go on, tell us. I go, no, no, no, I can't, I can't, I can't. And they go, yeah, go on, tell us, otherwise you're going to look a complete dick, aren't you? The announcement came out and people were tagging us and going, is this it? Is this what you're on about? And I was a bit like, I'm going to go live in a cave. I'm going to delete my Twitter account. It wasn't what we were, we were expecting the name of the director of coaching, the director of rugby to be announced. And it's a name that we've been talking about for ages on here, Simon Easterby. We know that people have been trying to persuade him to come back. We know that there's, you know, we know that he wants to move back to Wales. And then there's a whole load of stuff that gets thrown in the middle of the air with Andy Farrell taking the Lions. We don't know where that leaves Easterby. Does he stay with Ireland? Does he now get a chance to manage an international side? You're not going to go, okay, I'll come back to Scarlets. I'll give it another, you know, 12, 18 months. Does he get the chance to go with the Lions? And now you're going to say, oh no, I can't go to the Lions. I'm going to go and be director of rugby at the Scarlets. Do we think it is a matter of when, not if? Well, I think this is the confusing bit is if he says, you know, I've got to stay with Ireland now. I'm going to manage Ireland for the next 12 months. Do we wait 12 months and then say, okay, come back? Or, you know, if he says, I'm going to be with the Lions for the last 18 months, you know, it's, um, it depends. It may not even be, used to be, my understanding was that he used to be assigned before, ready to come after the, the world cup, but he had a clause in there that said if he got offered an extension by Ireland, then he was allowed to take that and turn this one down. And that's why nothing was announced. Um, but it's all muddied. Isn't it? That if you do, with Easterby, it is less of a gamble, isn't it? He knows the club, he knows the league, he knows it's going to be an easier bedded in period. And let's not be, you know, let's not be naive and not think that he would be on some kind of consultancy role while still working for the Lions and Ireland, putting stuff in progress, putting stuff in the mix and then coming back and seeing that, you know, the frustrating bit again, is, is that it got, like I said, we've asked Scarlett's for, you know, what, what are the details? I think a lot of this depends on the details, you know, what is John Daniels going to do? Um, you know, how is he going to be involved in signing players and all that kind of stuff? Probably Cubby is taking over the manager's role. You know, we would, that was announced last week, uh, as well. Um, so apparently Cubby's taking the manager's role and he'll integrate the manager's role with player recruitment and development alongside the director of rugby. We need the details, you know, and this is one of the bits that Scarlett's continually shoot themselves in the foot, that this could have been a good announcement. This could have been a great... When we had the coaching announcement and they said like, and now Jarrod Payne's going to be coaching defence, but he's still coaching attack and the backs and, uh, and Dwayne Peel is also catching it, coaching, uh, attacking defence and the backs. Right. So everyone's doing everything then. Um, in the interview that Simon did with Steph Thomas, um, he did say that the performance, that it's again, a bit similar to Rob's evidence. They want Dwayne Peel to be the coach on the pitch, you know, with the cones and the whistle in his mouth and things. And that's not what the performance director would be doing. They did use the word culture when talking about the new performance director, there'll be responsible for driving culture at the Scarletts. And he also said that the performance director would have a heavy input into team selection, first 15 selection, which is interesting. And that's Simon who said that. So, you know, to shoot from the hip a bit, is this new person going to be Dwayne Peel's boss and Peel's essentially going to be the attacks coach? Yeah. Sounds like it. From where you're reading between the lines, that's what it sounds like. But then last season when we bought in, um, Lee Blackett, yeah. Lee Blackett. Blackett, yeah. I was thinking Dane Black on it. When we bought Blackett in, you know, taking some of that pressure off Dwayne actually really improved what we were doing. And by all accounts, a lot of that was just because, you know, it was, Lee just kind of took some of that pressure off him. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, okay, I'll deal with all the shitty bits. You just go and do the fun bit. On a human level, Dwayne must dread doing interviews and press conferences and things at the moment. I know it's his job and he's getting paid to do it and stuff, but it must be like at the end of the game when he has to go stand in front of the microphone, he must have been like, yeah, I don't think he does himself any favours. And I don't think what's coming from above is doing him any favours. Like you said, there's no transparency. It's the same kind of line is rolled out that discipline wasn't good enough, a thing wasn't good enough, a culture. It's the same things. I think, unfortunately, he's probably taking, because he is the face of this, he's taking the brunt of it. But I don't think anybody in the Scarlets organisation are really helping themselves. Didn't you imagine him coming out one week and going, fucking referee was useless. Honest to Christ. Did you see that? And I was like, I'm forward pass by a mile. What was he doing? Maybe he wants to do that. Maybe just go full Razzy and just go like, yeah. Have you seen the clips of Razzy doing the bollock in the Springboks at like halftime? It's class, isn't it? It's absolute class. Liars, you promised me. You promised me you'd do it. You don't know whether you want to kiss him or punch him in any area. Oh God, the latest clip, he gets, I won't do the accent. He gets, he's got a whiteboard. He's carrying the whiteboard from the back of the room to the front of the room. He goes, right boys, prepare for some honesty. And he puts the whiteboard down and like, Jesus Christ. And all these Springbok double World Cup winners are just sat there like that. Yes, sir. No, sir. Well, I tell you, right, the first game I, when I went up to seniors, so when I was in university, right, I went to a team that was based in Cardiff, wasn't the main Cardiff team. It was highly rumoured, this is in the amateur days, that highly rumoured that this team was paying players quite well, right? Mainly because they were in division five and they'd just recruited two Welsh internationals who'd left Newport and come to play for them. So I'm 19, I'm sitting there and I'm going, oh yeah, you know, I'm going to have you boys, I'm going to show you what's what. And before training, we got hauled into the training room, right? So not even like, hello, this is Lee, he's come to join us, none of that stuff. This was, right, what the hell was that last Saturday? That was ridiculous. We only won by 40 points, that should have been 100. Are we not paying you enough? He got a wad of cash out of his pocket, went plump and throws it and there's all this money floating around in the air and I go like, holy shit. This is how they do it in the big pocket, you know? You're practising that all the Sunday at me, if you don't put it on, you're going to go dead. Don't be a cash boy, get cash out, right? You know, when you're just sitting there and you're going like, oh, this is like watching telly, this is great, this is amazing. So maybe that is what we need. Maybe we need Dwayne to come out and show a bit of passion. Do you know what I mean? We need a little bit of that. The soft, well, I wouldn't say softly, softly. I think that's maybe, that's being a bit too harsh, but I think this all in it together stuff is, it's not worked so far as it may be, it needs a little Marine Yoy rant and a bit of a siege mentality, even if he, you know what I mean? Somebody needs to be kind of the enemy to pull us all together and have that siege mentality, us versus them, and right, let's back down the hatches. What's there to lose? Because at the moment he's losing credibility, the players are losing credibility, it's turning very toxic, as you boys can probably see on the social media side of things. With everything Scarlett at the moment, it just seems to be reactive. I think in general, Welsh rugby just seems to be reactive instead of forcing the issue, thinking outside the box and going, right, let's get in front of it before it starts the damage. I think we just react to stuff like this whole coaching set of changing, everything in the execs changing. Well, surely we could have seen this happening at the end of last season and started to put some things in motion. We knew that Dwayne was struggling with this all-encompassing director of rugby and contracts and coaching and this and that. Yeah, because he was going bad. He was going to be head coach at Cardiff, wasn't he? And then the Scarletts kind of had to offer him something better to get him in, even though he was always going to go to the Scarletts. He was due to go to Cardiff as a backs coach and then Dye Young... And work for Dye Young. Yeah, Dye Young turned out to be a little bit ranty and a little bit naughty, not in a good way. So he left and it was like, right, okay, does Dwayne now step up to that role? And then while they were umming and ahhing about that, we went, aye, aye, how do you fancy this one? And of course, it was an easy decision for him to come to us. But I'm going to make an offer now, right? Genuine offer to the Scarletts, right? So you know those, you see it on the football ones where like Michael Sheen goes into the changing rooms beforehand and does one of those, come on boys, follow me, follow me onto the pitch. This is what it's here for. Those bastards are having it today and we're giving it to them. I'm going to offer to do one of them. Just cause, just cause I fancy it. That's a very reasonable fee, I'm sure. Yeah, do you know what? I'd settle for a couple of pints. I'd settle for a couple of beer tokens and just giving it. But do you know what, we need somebody, whether it's a player, whether it's a supporter or somebody... Can I be super honest about something? Go on. I'm quite disappointed in neither Foxy nor Shero for being that person. Yeah, and if they are, it ain't working, you know, but they need something else. You've got to think that Ken's got a bollocking in him. You've got to think that he can shake the foundations if he wanted to. Yeah, especially, just his face every now and again. You look at his face and you're never sure if he's happy or angry or sad or whatever, you know, he's just got that like face of rock, you know. And you might need somebody to go, right, okay, I think changing captains every other week isn't helping us because we haven't got somebody to go follow me into battle, you know. I'm the number one. I mean, this is what I do. This is, I'm here now and you follow me. I'd make Alex Drake captain at this rate. Yeah, just because he's having a storming season and yeah. Like Alex Drake, like don't you? You do, you're a, you like him. He is, he's nine out of ten every single week. There's a man crush there, definitely. Top carrier, top tackler. I am, I am first companion of hashtag justice for Alex every time he doesn't get to play Scotland. I'm like, what is, what is wrong with you people? I think, I know we'll get onto the game in a bit, but is Lousie trying to do that by putting a big one on somebody or is that a frustration thing? Because it's a bit, I can under, you know, I'm a big Man United fan and, you know, Roy Keane used to say, go smash into somebody, do something, you know. It's easy, it's a terrible smashing. It's a bit, a bit late if you try to do it there. Is that a kind of, you know, is that a kind of follow me to that? I've had enough, I'm pissed off, so I'm just going to smash somebody and get out of here. But Scott Quinnell, Scott Quinnell is renowned for it, you know, get him in for a couple, you know, you've got to take your moments. Maybe that, that, that, that exact moment maybe is not the one I would have picked if he'd have done it. I don't know, another time I would have been all right with it. Yeah, yeah, that's what I, that's what I'm kind of, because I can see it from kind of both angles, so I'm not sure exactly. I probably think it's probably the last that I've just been like frustration, but, you know, the Tongan boys, they will, you know, how they rev themselves up is to be physical, you know, but yeah, yeah, it's, like I said, it's all very reactive and seems to be a lot of moving pieces around the board without actually solving any problems at the moment, if it's coaching staff or in the exec box or even players, you know, eight changes, 10 changes, who's your halfbacks, who's your back row, like we don't know. Well, I actually got, I got directly asked what the, how many changes we're making game at the moment, and because I'm me, of course I track it, so I'll tell you now. There's a spreadsheet somewhere with it. Oh yes, oh yes. So actually, this is the fewest changes we've made to the 15 in the last five games, just seven, just seven, less than half the team. Now, to be fair, just to be fair, the pack that was picked was the one that we wanted, because we did a big selection debate on the last pause, and that eight that they picked is exactly the one we want it to be picked. It's not going to complain about that, but so seven changes this game, 11 changes last game, nine changes the game before that, 10 changes the game before that, nine changes the game before that. And by the way, it's not like all the injuries that we've had, we got, they picked up injuries early in the season. They've been missing for a long time. So it's not like the dragons get like three injuries a game. We're not getting that, like players like Ben Williams and Archie Hughes and Charlie Titcom are fit and available. It's not getting picked, or when they are picked, they're then out of the team again next week. So that's, yeah, so that's a frustrating thing. We've gone... You don't change after, like your back three, I wouldn't even know who's the, like the back three, your winger and fullbacks. Who would you say, yeah? Winger's not a clue. I've got no idea who he is. Convy on the bench, you're like, I think, you know, Convy as a finisher, I'm very much, I think he's a bit like a rooney where he needs to play and play and play and play and get in his stride. Whereas with a Steph, I think he can come in and out a bit and, and he just does his thing, doesn't he? He can make four mistakes and then score worldly. So you can, but I just, I just don't understand. How do you expect to build a style of playing and develop players if they're not... They're constantly rotating. It's not consistency, it's not consistency. Yeah, so fullback has changed six games in a row. So it's Lloyd, Nicholas, McNichol, Nicholas, Lloyd, Nicholas. You've pushed a button now, Ben, yeah? You realise that you've opened Pandora's box and... Scrum half has changed seven games in a row. I'm starting Scrum half. And again, it's the same two or three players. It's just a different one each week. You know, that's the, that's the thing. Well, again, we kind of, if you look at the Ospreys, they've been, and Cardiff to an extent, they've been pretty consistent in their... Would you like to know exactly how consistent? In selection, go on then, go on then, Ben. Oh, sorry. That was a perfect link, wasn't it? Yeah, so Cardiff made a lot of changes a week just gone, but they had all their internationals back, obviously. But they've been making like three changes per game, two changes per game. Ospreys are the most consistent in selection. They've made seven changes like us last week, but that's the most they've made in nine weeks, nine games. So they've made like two, three, four, four, seven, four, six, seven. So you just know that there's a spreadsheet. It's no matter what question you ask you, there's a spreadsheet for it. And it's just a matter of time. The punchline is that Ben is exactly correct. Yeah. All of that is to say that Ben is right. Now there'll be a spreadsheet. It's just that Ben Thomas has played himself into form because they've stuck with him and they've gone, look, you're going to play more schemes. So, you know what I mean? He's playing with that bit more freedom. And I think, you know, I don't think he started the season particularly well, but he's just coming to form now because he's played and played and played. And, you know, it's happening for a minute. Yeah. We're talking about playing Wales 12. So, yeah. Let's move on swiftly from that one. So let's move on to the game on Saturday, Hugh. So three word thoughts. Okay. We do on social media and we know that it's not great at the minute, but the three word thoughts on Saturday were about as negative as I think they've been. The biggest response that we've got. So like on Facebook, I mean, there's some people are negative every week anyway. Yeah. And there's some one person who left a paragraph completely missing the point. Yeah. Oh, my God. I mean, one guy did say Eddie James. Good. So that was positive. Yeah. I mean, there's no real point reading any of these out, to be honest. They're all essentially the same of not happy. And of course, you go on to Twitter and see what all the Cardiff and Ospreys fans thought about it. Don't quite fancy doing that. I put my phone down. Yeah. I put the tweet out and then I went, I'm just going to put my phone down. Just I'm not even going to look at the reply, in all honesty. And then I looked at them on Sunday morning and I thought, it's Easter. I can't be after this. I'm just going to leave it there. I did genuinely forget that it was Easter weekend because I go, oh, I'll do this. So I do all my usual stuff on a Sunday. And then my wife's like, it's Easter. Just leave the rugby stuff alone. It's Easter. I had to go do gardening instead. But yeah, I think sometimes you've just got to do that with social media and just go, do you know what? Everyone's got that kind of feeling. OK, things ain't great. The phrase you're looking for is opinions are like arseholes. Everybody's got one. Yeah. And more than ever, full of shit. That's what it is. Yeah. And you don't want it in your face. So it was just one of those times. The bit that people need to remember, yeah, is that we all care. We've all got this, you know, we all feel emotional about it. And that's why we do what we do. But there's always a person on the end of that comment. You know, there's a person the other end of that time. Every time somebody turns around and says, Dwayne Peel was shit. Yeah. No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that, you know, that's what people have said. Dwayne Peel was shit. So, you know, there's Dwayne, there's his family, there's, you know, the extended family, there's friends and all of that kind of stuff. But, you know, he might have a duck's back. It might be water running off and he might go, yeah, I care. But you don't know. You just don't know what that person is going through. You don't know what their family are going through. You don't know what. So when people are putting these comments, just have a bit of common sense, you know. And there's a way of framing it differently to what some people do. You know, Dwayne needs to. You've got to be open too. If you're going to put something online that, say, you know, is contentious. So I'm happy to debate with anybody. Debate, isn't it? Like, I hear both sides of the story and they go, don't I still agree with you? But yeah, I can see where you're coming from with this and that. But no, no, it's this way. No, no. I mean, you can't speak to anybody that just goes, no. Well, what's the point of putting it on then? If you didn't want any comment to either, you know, question you or just say, well, what do you think about that then? Well, it's just so easy to put a comment and go, well, I'm right. I've got 15 likes. It's the easiest thing in the world. But you've got to be open to a bit of, you know, a bit of a debate and to see it from the other perspective. Like you say, you know, there is somebody on the end of it. I've had, believe it or not, bad reviews. You know, it happens. You just send them a poo in the post and move on. Right, so let's talk about the game then. So Hugh, have you actually got any magic numbers for us from the Glasgow game? No. No. Okay. I decided that I wasn't going to spend any money on the broadcast for that game. Alex Craig was the top carrier and top tackler again. That's where we'll go. So we've got a positive. We've got a positive stat that's about with Alex Craig at a good game. So I think we should special, you know, show the 150 caps for Kieran Hardy. I mean, that's an achievement. Especially just before he goes. Yeah, especially because he's just moving to the off break. I thought that could have turned a bit nasty and a bit toxic. But, you know, it seemed to be a good evasion and stuff. I think, you know, that could have easily have gone tits up. It's a bit awkward when you've got to do the interview for it. So what does getting 100 caps for the Scouts mean to you, Kieran? Oh, I've always wanted to. Nothing means more to me than playing for the... Yeah. The wrath from a sinking ship. Yeah. So what did you think about the game? Ben, what did you make of the game on Saturday? Was there anything positive we can pull out of that game? I would love to say yes, but I don't think there is. I just, I would love to see a style. Do you see a blueprint of what we're trying to do? Do you see a thing of, okay, yeah, I can see where we're going with something. I don't know if we're an attacking team. I don't know if we're like a counter-attack team. I don't know if we're a territory team. We are not a territory team. I can tell you that. Like my biggest takeaway from it was, and I know, you know, Dan Jones coming on, probably coming on and trying to make too much of a difference too early. You know, you're trying to force it because you've been on the bench. You know, Charlie Tickham as a stormer, should he have come on? You know, what was there to lose by him gaining some experience and being on the bench for that game at home and having a crack? Would we be any worse off? We'd probably be better off in the long run. Yeah, we are the Charlie Tickham fan club on this part. And this is something that we've said many times is, here he is dragging Carmarthen Quinns to yet another win at a weekend. They don't win without him. And here we are. How does a fly half get yellow carded in a penalty try for a Moorland infringement? Yeah, I thought that was pretty ridiculous, but it just struck me as something that, again, it was like a system failure, more so than a player failure. I know that sounds a bit convoluted, but it just seemed like, oh, well, nobody's going in there. So I better do it. In this game, we were in defence, we were blitzing like absolute madmen, which we haven't done all season. We haven't done all season, yeah. Now, we know that Jared has gone to be the defence coach now. So is Jared like, OK, we're a blitzing team now? If so, this is plan C of the season so far. For people keeping track, right, before the weekend is 15 games. So on average, a plan at the Scarletts lasts five games, and then we come up with a new one. I don't think you can be a blitzing defensive box he's playing. Well, no. I think that's the hard bit. You have to base your structure, you have to base your systems on the players that you've got, and if those players are capable of playing that system. The two kind of work hand in hand. You select players that work with your system, but you put a system in place according to the players that you've got. Yeah, Foxy. Somebody said it's a shame that this will be the memory of Foxy, rather than the 10, 15 years of fantastic, amazing Iron Man in New Zealand's British Lions, where he's in danger of kind of erasing little bits of those memories. They must have coached that defensive structure all week. So, I don't understand, you know, has he come in last minute? We knew that Joe Roberts was injured, so... Wasn't it? I was to play Fox, so why have we gone to that? It's just... But again, like you're saying with that, it's your personnel. Now, when we signed Johan Lloyd, we obviously signed him as a 10, right? Because we had Johnny Mac and Tom Rogers play fullback and stuff like that. So, okay, I kind of get it, but we've got three 10s, if you're taking Charlie up to the equation as well. You've got Sam Costello, Johan Lloyd and Dan Jones, who are three totally different 10s. So, how would you... Yeah, it's just totally, totally different. The Johan Lloyd is a fly half experiment and needs to have time called on it now. There was a moment in the first half where we actually turned over a line, we stole a line out, probably because he did it, to be honest. And it went back, Johan Lloyd calls for it, it goes to him, and he's thinking, ooh, clear it. Johan Lloyd's kick meters are actually really good, it's something that's underrated about him, which is why he associates it with playing fullback. So, he's in his own in goal area, he's just taken it from a well-defended five-meter line out, and he starts to have a run, and he gets tackled on his own try line, panics, offloads it to Ryan Elias, and all Ryan Elias can do is ground it in his own in-ball area, and it's a five-meter scrum to Glasgow. It's the Atoge twick and play again, it's the exact play, practically. But, look, I think there's a top, top-class player in there, I really do. I think he has got something that can't be coached. But, looking at it, I think that they tried then to go, Costello's a really good player, so try and play like Sam, so he's not playing his natural game, so he's second-guessing, and then we go down by a couple of scores, and then he tries to play off the cuff like he did the Scotland game, and it will probably work out, but one in three, one in four, the modern game is not that, it doesn't work like that anymore. I see that him and Costello, and him at fullback, and two receivers then, you've got two tens on the pitch, I think that's a great way, if you haven't got a football in 12, like the Johnny Williams or Eddie, it's good to have two first receivers on the pitch, Costello's intelligent enough to go second receiver, but that doesn't seem to happen either when Lloyd plays fullback, so what's the point of giving him time in the ten jersey then, if he's not going to do stuff that a ten would do from fullback? I think this is what we're missing as a team, as a club, as a region, it is just that blueprint that goes, like you say, when Pivac came in, Pivac put a system in place that didn't work for the first four or five games, but you could see, and he fronted up, and I remember he gave an interview, and somebody said, we're making breaks, and we're throwing these offloads, but they're not going to hand, and Pivac said, no, but at the start of the season, we weren't making the breaks, and now we're making the breaks, and now we are offloading, and in three or four games, those will start going to hand. No, it's unpredictable. Yeah, and it was like, this is my plan, this is how we're going to play the game, we're going to turn the ball over quickly, and then we're going to do this, and then everyone's going to run at the same player. We don't seem to have that, we're doing, we don't seem to have, and I would love him to just go, all right, do you know what, this is how we're going to do it, even if he puts his hand up, and he goes, do you know what, what we've been doing so far isn't working, I haven't been strong enough, so this is what we're going to do, you know, and I'm treating this as warm-up games for next season, so this is how we're going to play the game. To implement that with nine games to go, and then to get the boys up to the level at pre-season, not to implement something new against Stoppage, I mean, I think this is where we went, I mean, we were unlucky to get the kind of South Africa first up and that, and you want to, you know, get your game, but if we don't do it now, then when do we do it, you know, when do we... There's the story that one of the excuses that's been brought out is, oh, this season is all about building and developing, and I'm like, well, why are we playing Foxeat, and why, if Kieran Hardy's off, why is he starting, and if Wynne Jones is apparently off... Like you say, if we are, then Charlie Tipton should be coming off the bench then. Well, on the bench, we had Gareth Davies on the bench, he didn't come on, so what's going on there? And again, Ryan Conville was on the bench, didn't come on. Yeah, that's correct. Now, again, I make the point always, I don't get why you'd have a winger on the bench anyway, what are they supposed to fix? Unless it's just pure injury cover. Yeah, but the whole thing is, you know, Johan Nicolaas is a solid club player, but he's a centre, he's not a winger, he's not a fullback, he's a centre. 12 and 13, I think, I think he can do a job at both, which is quite rare in the modern game, but he's not a winger or a fullback, definitely not. And now Tom Rodgers is now, we said this last week, he's between two stools now, because he's playing out on the wing, but the more I watch him... I thought we were making him into a fullback. Yeah, and Gatland has said, you know, I know Gatland's not necessarily the most popular man on this podcast, but Gatland has said that he sees Tom Rodgers as a fullback. But then where do you put Johan Lloyd? You've then got somebody like Johan Lloyd, who's got, I think he's number two or number three in the URC for meters game. Yeah, but that's because he runs everything. Yeah, but do you know what I mean? A fullback, I'd settle for that, a fullback, you know. You know, I kind of, do you remember in the 2013 Lions tour where James O'Connor was playing 10 for Australia, and then he spent the rest of his career on the wing? Like, I've got a feeling like, we'll look back at when Johan Lloyd started a test match for Wales at 10, and we'll look and just go, he must have been in at 10, because I don't think his future is at 10. And I'm not, he gives his all every week, and he clearly got an eye injury in this game and stuff as well. So I'm not faulting his effort, and like exactly as Ben said, he's massively talented, but I just don't see him as a 10. I've seen him play wing, to be fair, I've seen him have games at wing, and I think that could, you know, it can, again, if we're playing into something that's designed, if he's going to start every week at 15 or 14, I've seen him play 13 for Bristol. You know, you can build something where you've got more footballers on the park, let's say, you know, where you are going a bit positional, you defend in positions, but you don't attack. It doesn't matter what numbers on your back to attack. If you're coming in first receiver, and you know, and Costello's coming in second receiver with a bit more time, then I could see the logic in it, but like I say, we're not playing that kind of game. So it's strange. I think Tom Rogers has definitely been one of the players that, I know, I know he struggles with injury and stuff, but he needed a run of games. He needed to be playing week in, week out, like you say, at full back. I think the thing is now, right, we've got in our, in between now and the end of the season, we play the Dragons, the Sharks and Zebra. Yeah, so the three teams that are all around us at the bottom. And then I think we've got Ulster, we've got Edinburgh next, then yeah, Edinburgh and Ulster are the other two teams that we play. Yeah, both of them are not having great seasons and great runs at the minute. So you target those three games now at the end of the season. Yeah, you target them and you go, those are the three games that we absolutely have to do something in. Out of those three games, I want 2.99 wins. You know, these are what we have to do. And you end up with six wins through the season. Okay. Maybe not so bad. Same as we got last year. Yeah. And then maybe pick up a couple of losing bonus points. But you have to be in a place where you go, right, for these six games or whatever, we've got less now, right? These are the players that are going to, this is the bulk of the team. Yeah, these are my teams. And this is the team that's going to go forward to next year. And this is the team that I'm going to have. And I might make one or two changes here and there, but come hell or high water, this is what I'm going to do. And you've got to commit to it. And I think that this is the only bit, but I don't want to say the only bit where I've criticised Peel because this is the bit where I think that he can do more for himself is where he can say, right, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And he has a conversation with supporters in the new found camera, in the social media team have got a camera that works. They sit down with Dwayne Peel. And, you know, we've said before, the invitation is permanently open. If somebody wants to come and have a chat with us, we'll snap their hands off. But grab hold of the social media team, have a sit down and go, do you know what, this is what the rest of the season is going to look like. This is what these games are going to look like. You're not going to give away a massive amount to the opposition and they're going to go, oh, yeah, right. Yeah. Okay. Didn't think of that, you know, but you're going to come in. Yeah. That opposition don't know anymore. So I don't think you can surprise. But what you can do is you can say to supporters, you know what, thank you for all of it so far. I get your frustration. I get where you're coming from. I'm just going to tell you where we're at and I'm going to tell you what the rest of the season is going to look like. And I'm going to tell you why. And then hopefully this is what we'll do over summer. And then we'll come into next season, pre-season. We're going to play the team that's going to start. We're going to treat it as pre-season. So we're hitting game one. Pre-season game against Leicester, by the way. Announced. Yeah. Yeah. But do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But we need to change the format of what we're doing now. We need to, Dwayne Peel needs to do himself a favour and come forward and start talking to fans. Because fans aren't sitting there wanting to hate him. They want to love him, you know? Here's a question for you. If Dwayne wasn't a Scarlet's legend, would he still be in the job? No. But I think there's examples in the Scarlet's all over the place of they are Scarlet's. And that's what's happening. And they've given Dwayne, when we had John Daniels on, Dwayne has been given carte blanche basically to bring in whoever he likes, whether that's assistant coaches or players. So, yeah. We just need to use it better. But what I'm saying is, yeah, is we've got two weeks off now, haven't we? We've got no game for two weeks, which makes next week's podcast really interesting. With no game to review and no game to preview. Martin is going to be in his element. There's going to be a two-hour Youth Cup special. So, Llangenech under-11s are playing. What you thought of, obviously, the Treviso game, everybody was very happy with the right, the left, the two sevens in the back row. With Teddy and Dan Davis, it didn't quite go the same this week, did it? What do you think of that going forward? I think Teddy's been fantastic all season. I think he's one of our players of the season. I think it can, I think it can work. Like we spoke about when we won the title, we had Barkley and Cubby, who are our sevens playing in the back row. So, I think it could work. I don't know if those are the two I would choose to do. I feel like Teddy is, like he's small for a seven, he's really small for a six, even if he is actually playing as a seven. So, I don't know. It'd be interesting when Plumtree's back available. Yeah, I think my view on it is I've always kind of loved that. I do, you know, I love that Australia, Corkock and Hooper seven, six, I love that. I don't think it works with Fafita at eight, because Fafita is a bit, you know, a kind of three-spitter. He's not your quintessential eight desirer. Like you say, a Scott Quinnell or a, you know, picking up the ball, a foul, that's how you know what you're going to get, where then you can use the two right and left. I don't think, whereas if you had a Calama Forney, though, that would work really well, I think. But again, we're playing a system that doesn't work with the players that we've got. You know what I mean? If Fafita was up in the second row, then I think with a ball-carrying eight, those two could really do some damage. See, I've always preferred Fafita in the second row, but Fafita and Lousey in the second row. If you're a big, hefty second row, and I think the only reason he's not is because Alex Craig is having an outstanding season. But if you're looking across and you're you're going, right, I've got Lousey that plays like he's playing basketball for the Harlem Globetrotters. And, you know, he's got his hands on the ball and he makes it look like a P. And he's handing people off and all this kind of stuff. And then you've got Fafita that's outpacing wingers and full-backs from his own 22. And, Christ, I'm a big, heavy second row and that's who I've got to outsmart. I've got to play better than them today. Do you know what I mean? That puts you really on your back foot. And I just, I don't know, there's frustration again about chopping and changing and this, that and the other and not having a clear blueprint about what we're doing. But I think we've got the players. I think we've got the coaches. I just think we're all running around like headless chickens at the minute, just going, oh, you do this and you do this and you do this and you do this. It's almost like you get to the start of the game and you've got to check and make sure you've got 15 players on the pitch. Do you know what I mean? I'm willing to bet there's somebody whose job it is to make sure we've got 15 players on the pitch just in case, because we really not that organised before. And that's how it feels at the minute, you know? Yeah. This squad, if you look at the squad or, you know, the 15 that we're putting out, like you said, that pack was the chosen pack. That's probably our strongest pack that was available, right? To be fourth, that squad's not a 14th in this league. Yeah, I agree. It's not knowing me. I think hard if we'd have half our players. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, but, you know, I'm looking here, penalties conceded, 147 penalties, worst in the league. Scrub offences, 24th, 16th in the league. Those are, you know, those are fundamentals. How do you give a set piece? How are you giving that many away a set piece? Well, that's where I kind of, in this specific game, where, like, Peel wasn't the main reason in this game, because you got in like the second minute when Tom Rogers is taking someone out here, like, Dwayne hasn't gone, hey, Tom, here's an idea. And, you know, Glasgow got some of the best 22 efficiency of any club in Europe. And it's like, hang on, here's an idea. Let's give away a yellow card and give them just easy access into our 22. If you look at most of the penalties that we gave away in this game, most of them were offside because we were blitzing for the first time. And the players were still trying to figure out when do I start running? And like, that's why you need a preseason to learn these things. But then you've got things like Lousey taking risks at Rucks in our own 22 and getting paid for it. And I'm like, be a bit aware, we're not playing the Dragons or Zebra, we're playing Glasgow. But that's because he doesn't trust the defence to blitz. Yeah. So he's always confident if they're going to go over in the corner, so they might just go for the three. Yeah. And that's why it's confidence that all my players around me are going to do what they need to do. And when that prop takes the ball and is running at the player to my right, that player to my right is going to put that prop down and I can jack on. It's having that confidence that I don't need to go in and support that tackle. I don't need to make another tackle. I can wait for him to hit the floor and then be first in. And that's confidence, you know. But against this specific opposition, it would probably been better to let them play a bit more. Because if you look at the tries we conceded, there's a wide ball of advantage on the wing that Tom Rogers would have been covering if he'd been on the pitch. And there was three driving walls, one which I think was, again, another advantage of a driving wall that had been brought down. And one at the end of the scrum, which was just diabolical. So where we'd probably given up by then. So it's just kind of... Glasgow, would you like some help? Here, we'll give you a lift to our five metre line and then you can take it from there. Okay. Trivia for you, who started number eight in the first game of the season? Ben Williams. Ben Williams. Yeah, who's in South Africa. Yeah. Hasn't played a game at number eight since. No. But he's one of those players that is going to be amazing. He's going to be great. He needs a bit of bulk to play in number eight. Yeah, I'm not... No, no, we're not great at that. The point is, yeah. Because we love Ben Williams. Yeah. Yeah. Was there ever been a bad cladding on the bench last week? Yeah. I'm just picking availables for personal wear. All right, James. I just wanted to ask one question, just away from the pitch. And obviously, like I said, I do a lot of work at Saracens and I've done a bit at Bristol and Gloucester. What do we think of the matchday experience? I've seen a few people having a go at Scarlet supporters saying that there's no atmosphere down there and people aren't coming out because they're losing. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Do you think people are getting value for money and that's maybe why they're... It's not just the team. Do you think that, like we've talked about, the Scarlets aren't the most visible of associations. Do you think that a three million loss... We don't use our stadium for anything else other than rugby. Surely there's got to be some way of making money from... There was a Brussie Cat Dolls gig booked there before Covid and then that got cancelled and then we haven't done anything since. I did speak to somebody down there. There's been a few inquiries, but they're not getting back to plan with the management because we're not sure when we're really in the pitch and we don't know when the season finishes and we don't know what our fixtures are. They're not going to hang around, are they? No. And you need to book that stuff 12, 18 months, two years in advance, don't you? That's profitable and we don't use it. Well, you know, the WRU say to Team Wales, sorry, Taylor Swift's here this week. You're going to have to play in tickets. With so much money, you'll have to play in... Yeah, but that's because they roll out tickets for a box. There's all the WRU boys sitting there going, hey, I got myself some Taylor Swift tickets. That's what that is. They're all Swifties. They're all Swifties. Yeah. What do you think of the match they experienced? When I went there earlier this season, it was on the game against Cardiff, which is the same day as the Barbaras game. So I watched the Barbaras game in the barn. And they have said, I think Simon in his interview again said they want to make more use of the barn for supporters and making money out of it as well, which is obviously very understandable. So I went there, had a drink there, then went into this ground, met Helen from the Supporters Trust, got a dragon painted on my face, went to the shop. That needs to change. I think this won't be news to any people who work at the Scarlett's who might be listening. Everybody hates the shop, and especially when you're saying there's horrid Castor kits for £90. I knew the kit was going to come up. When I was a kid and going to Stradley Park, even if there wasn't a game on, you would go and you would go to the shop. That was like the best thing. If it was my birthday or before Christmas, Phil Davies would be in the shop. You'd think, you know what I mean? You'd see, you know, Phil Davies would be around. You know what I mean? It was amazing, the experience. You've got to remember, as I said before, my United fan and going up to United, going to the club shop, that was such a massive thing. But like you say, it's just much I didn't get. I didn't notice that when I was actually there for the game, I didn't notice the match day experience being particularly poor. I mean, I've been to Twickenham a few times to see whether it's the Prem Final or Friendlies and Twickenham is just like seats over there. And then that's the sum of it. They don't even do a fire display or anything like a proper international team. And you look at Saris versus Harlequins at Tottenham. Wow. How much must they have paid those 61,000 people to turn up, honestly? Yeah, but I still think if we'd made a £3 million loss this year, and after what we did the year before, surely it's worth having to punch up some extra stuff for the £400,000 and then maybe you'll make a bit back. What we need is, and Hugh will agree with me, we need drums in the stadium. Yeah, we need to get the boys online with us, right? And we need to do a little practice session. So when we go to the game, everybody knows what's happening. And if they don't know what happened, they go, you know what, I have a little of you on YouTube. Yeah. And it goes. Yeah. All right. Yeah. And you've got nobody going. No, no, no. You wait till the end. No, no. From the top. Five, six, seven, eight. But do you know what I mean? We need to bring that atmosphere there. And as fans, we can do that. We don't need the club to do that. We can do that. We've got that. I definitely think there's scope to try a few things. I just think, again, in Welsh rugby in general, it's all, well, we've always done it this way, so we'll continue to do it this way. And unfortunately, as we're starting to find out, we need to think we can't do it the same way as other unions and stuff. We haven't got the budget, the people. We need to think outside the box a bit more and look at things because we can't do it like England and France do it. Yeah. Just on the money thing, so the loss of, so just to touch on that briefly, changing the subject a bit. So a lot of people got very excited about this. First thing to say all rugby clubs lose money, like millions of pounds. Like if people think that like the French teams are making millions upon millions. No, they're not. Most of the French teams have got sugar daddy owners who are just piling millions and millions and millions into them. All teams in England have lost money, several million this season. I think the year that we won the league, when the books were announced, there was two clubs in the whole of Europe that made a profit and it was us and Exeter. And now look where Exeter are now and things. So if you think the Irish are making money, they're getting handouts from their government left, right and centre. I mean, their tax system as well. I'm not saying about losing money. Yeah. But what makes, what is to double your loss, to double your loss in 12 months. That is a significant change. Yeah. Also, we lost a million pounds more than the other regions. They all lost two million. And I suspect that's probably the downside of having our own stadium. Because obviously Ospreys and Cardiff, yes, they don't generate the extra revenue from Swansea.com and the Almspark, but at the same time, they don't carry the risk either. So where is that asset to make a million? Exactly. Right, gents, we are nearing the end. So Ben, at the end of every pod, I say end of every pod, most pods, when I remember, we have a little Lee's Dad's Jokes. Now, I've left, as you might notice, I'm in a different room tonight, and I've left the joke cards in the other room. However, never fear, because I've got my dad joke book with me. So you get to choose now, right? When you say stop, and then I'll stop on a page and then I'll read a joke card from that page. Ben, you get to choose. Ben, very, very important. You must say stop before he starts flicking because there's a time delay on the, on the wi-fi. So many times... I'll do it slowly. You're just angry because you get crap jokes. All right, so Ben, when you're ready, and... Stop. Ah, lovely, right, okay. So, what do you call a hen who counts her eggs? She would be a Mathma Chicken. I like that one. That's a solid six out of ten, that one. Yeah, absolutely. Which is better than most of them, I will be fair. Well, one being a passable joke and ten being the worst thing. Yeah, yeah. Right, Hugh, go on. Stop. All right, okay. What do you call a fish with four eyes? A fish. Because that works with, what do you call a fish with no eyes? Yeah, that one actually, that one actually works. Right, gents, thank you for your time. Ben, I hope you've enjoyed your evening with us. It's been good to have you. Pleasure. Excellent. So, next week, Martin will be back. Enjoy your rugby, ladies and gents, in between now and then. And, yeah, we'll see you again then. All the very best. Toodle-pits. Cheers. Double. We hope you enjoyed the show. Please subscribe, rate and review wherever you listen to us, as it really helps us spread the word. You can find us on all the usual social media channels or email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. And remember, whatever the question, rugby is always the answer.