Javan Sebastion - Bonus Pod

In this episode of Scarlet's Fever, Lee G. interviews Javan Sebastian, a former Scarlet and current Edinburgh prop. Javan discusses his experience transitioning from Scarlet to Edinburgh, highlighting the welcoming culture and team mentality at Edinburgh. He also talks about the importance of fan support and how it boosts players' energy on the field. Javan shares his insights on the differences between club and international level rugby, particularly the increased professionalism and higher expectations. He also touches on the intricacies of scrummaging and mentions some challenging opponents he has faced. Welcome to Scarlet's Fever, the home of Suspense Central and Westerer is Besterer. Hello and welcome to a very special bonus edition of Scarlet's Fever with me, Lee G. Joining me as always Hugh and Big M. Good afternoon gentlemen, how are we? Good afternoon, I'm excited for this special episode. You can't just say hello can you? You can't just say, you just can't do a lot, you've always got to be a little something. It's a talking format Lee, for God's sake. Well it is a special episode today and it's very happy to introduce today's guest, ex-Scarlet, now current Edinburgh prop, a legend, Javan Sebastian. Afternoon Javan, how are things mate? Hiya guys, all right? Yeah, really good. Excellent, excellent. So you've got the Edinburgh top on already boys, it's just, it's like... Yeah, just a reminder, I'm not a Scarlet anymore. So how is life up in Edinburgh? Is it cold up there? Is it as cold as we all think it is? I don't think it's that cold, but if you ask my partner how cold it was, yeah, she'd say it was very cold, because every day I get too cold, too cold. And how's life treating you up there mate? Are you enjoying it? Yeah, it's great. I've been about for a better bunch of players to come to a club too, but it's been so welcoming. Yeah, I just think it's really good. The kids have settled in. Okay, on to the playing field now. Sitting in the URC, you've had one win, one loss in Europe so far. You've actually got a try against them, and I've got a video clip of that to put alongside this, so that'll be good. It's a cracking season. What's your take on it so far? Are you taking achievement? Are you taking expectations? I think we're just taking every game as it comes. With regards to the comp that we're in now, the tough games have come on. They were very difficult. Yeah, we took a lot of learning from that game and tried putting it forward into the URC season. We've come up with some good wins and good results for the season. Yeah, so Jevon, we're really interested to learn what the difference is, whether it's a cultures stuff or different approaches to training or what have you, that you've experienced, that you've gone from Scarlett to Edinburgh, maybe stuff you weren't expecting or something that's taken you by surprise perhaps? Just little things really. Obviously, a different culture, different group of boys, different coaching staff. One thing I'd take was coming to this club, everybody's welcoming. You go in every morning, you shake everyone's hand, you really engage with everyone, so you feel more of a team. Even from the academy boys right down to the S&C coach, you say morning to everybody. As a culture, I think that's where they've taken a step forward. That's nice. That's interesting, as we talk about building the team, because that's something that we've been obviously talking about in the Scarlett thing. How important is that to the performance that you put on the park? Totally, 100%. You can see that, well, I feel like playing with Edinburgh, everybody's got each other's backs. If one guy makes a mistake, it's not that guy's mistake, it's a whole team performance. As with Scarlett, I feel like it was more individuals, not to throw anyone under the bus or anything, but that's how I felt. It's good to be honest with these things, because that's how people learn, isn't it? Yes. We've spoken about the little differences between Edinburgh and Scarlett. Is there anything in particular that you miss from your time at the Scarlett? You were around for the club winning season and the semi-final in Heineken. What do you miss from the club? My time at Scarlett. The group of boys themselves, when I was there, they were so welcoming when I went there. It was quite similar to when I'm up here, just the group of players, individuals. We had a lift club every day to work. I miss that. I miss just hanging out with the boys, having a coffee, having a laugh, little things like that. Obviously, Scarlett have got a good fan base, so the crowd, when we're winning, really gets behind you. That was good. At the minute, being a Scarlett fan is quite difficult, and there are quite a few Scarlett fans who are getting on players' backs. As a player, when you run out on the pitch, how much of a difference does that make to you, knowing that the crowd have got your back? It's massive. When you go out and you hear the crowd behind you, even when you're tired, fatigued or you feel low energy, the crowd making noise and cheering your team on really gives you a burst of energy. It does pick players up. The fans of Scarlett have got to stick by them. Eventually, wins will start coming, but it makes a massive difference, especially up in Edinburgh. No matter if we win or lose, the crowd is pretty loud and it keeps the boys going. So, Javan, you're Scottish international now. What was your biggest takeaway? What surprised you the most about going from club level to international level? What was the biggest difference for you? A lot more running, I'll tell you that. I don't know. The professionalism of it all is day and night. It's like semi-pros. You train up on a Tuesday and Thursday and you play. The level of professionalism has got to show. When you're with the club, it's like the things you don't get seen. You're working hard in the gym, you're doing extras on the field, you're putting your hand up for selection, not just to your club coaches but to international coaches as well. Do you enjoy that level? Is the expectation higher? Is that enjoyable? Yes, it is. It drives you. Having a taste of international level makes you want more and especially when it's a young family you're trying to provide for. It really motivates you to give more. I remember when Samson Lee first went to international rugby, he talked about how his first experience of an international scrum with the opposition pack and then international second rows behind him, he felt like he was going to break in half. Was it that much of a step up for you? Or were you like, no, I feel like I can hold my own in this environment? Yes and no. It is a step up from semi-pro and then it's another step up to playing professional rugby. I wouldn't say it's too much of a jump from professional to then playing international. Especially if you've had a few scrums in a professional career, you kind of build yourself up for it. You could say it was more technical international than it is professional. Obviously, when we as casual fans watch the international games or the professional games, the scrum is often a big talking point. For you as a professional prop, what would you say is one thing that a casual fan can look out for at a scrum? If you were saying, watch out for this at this scrum and you'll get an idea of who's on top, what's going on? I'd never blame a tight head, tighter than ever. It's a tough one because guys have got to paint good pictures when loose heads have got weird angles to work with. It's all a bit of a mess. Both packs are scrimmaging legally. When you've got two packs that want to scrimmage legally, most of them don't tend to go down. But when one is trying to play funny buggers, then it can go either way. I can't give points on what to watch out for. I would say if they both look quite steady, then they're both doing a good job. So who's the worst team to scrummage against? Who plays funny buggers the most? I'd like to say Osprey. Good man, there we go. Funny buggers, we like to take corners and try to have different angles in the scrum. And have a bit of a hit-and-chase mentality. But it's not just the Osprey. Any team that you come up against, like teams I've been involved in, if you feel like you're on the back foot, then you have to change something to try to get the upper hand. I've always wanted to ask an international prop list. Say you're at the end of a half or the end of a game, and there's a scrum, and you're in the lead, and you know a couple of resets here, the clock will go dead and we can kick it out. Do you think you could... Yeah, I can do you three resets here, no worries. Do you think you could do that? You mean legally? Without getting penalised. On our ball or their ball, sorry. Your own ball. No, I don't think so. Not with the refs these days. They're pretty hot on scrums these days. I'd say two, three seasons ago, maybe you could get away with it. But not now, because the refs have classes and stuff, what they lock out for in scrums. So I don't think now, these days, you wouldn't be able to know. See, I told you Hugh wasn't a prop. I told you Hugh didn't have a clue what was going on in the scrum. He just looks at it and he goes, there's a whole bunch of boys having a hug. This is cute, because there's loads of people like me who've got no idea what they're on about. All you've got to do is join the club and have a go yourself. Most people in the scrum haven't got a clue what's going on in a scrum anyway. Profs and hookers know what's going on and that's about it. Not even the back. I can agree with that. So Jervan, you are potentially borderline one of the top international tightheads in the UK, potentially even worldwide at the minute. Who would you say is the toughest loose head you've ever come up against? Oh God. Like I said, this season it's been a Clement loose head. He was really good. Not too sure how to pronounce his name, so don't ask me. While I was growing up, Wyn Jones was obviously in his prime. I'm not saying he's not in his prime anymore, but he was a really, really strong loose head to scrummage against. Who else? Piers Schumann at Edinburgh, really strong. I'm with him now, that's all right. He looks good since his haircut, doesn't he? I prefer him with the short hair. Yeah, he looks a bit harder, doesn't he? Haircuts is a bit of a thing for us, because it's the amount of you boys that are playing now that have got haircuts that would have just not been allowed back in my day when we were playing. There'd have been so many fines after the game, you'd have just gone, that's going. But you boys get away with it. Yeah, there's some dodgy haircuts about him. Even I've got one, I've got a rat's tail, but that was just because of lockdown. I grew my hair in lockdown and I just decided to keep something. I wasn't going to say, I'm sure you've got a rat's tail, but you've still got it. Yeah, I've still got it. It's something to remember Covid. I think that's where the haircuts, the dodgy haircut started. It was during Covid and boys just bored and cutting their hair, yeah, and just decided to keep it. Tom Francis has always had a dodgy haircut. Yeah, yeah. You can let anybody tell them to take their foot, come on. We were at the Scarletts when Steph Evans decided to have his monstrosity of a haircut. Yeah, and even when we had that half mullet, like one side of it was done, but the other side wasn't. I'm sure he still has a mullet and a rat's tail. I'm not too sure. He does. We talk about it every week. It's good that we've got an international prop on and we're talking about haircuts. Not the best one to talk to about haircuts, saying I need a haircut now. So, talk to me about growing up and playing the game. What was your journey like? When was the first time you touched a ball and who influenced you and all that kind of stuff? My main influence was, I would say, Anthony Maynard probably. I don't know if you guys know Jack Maynard and Scott Maynard. They played semi-pro for Sunderbury. Yeah, yeah. So, their dad, he used to take me training and obviously my mum and that didn't really see like a career in rugby, so they tended not to take me training. So, I jumped in with Jack and Scott and they used to drag me along to training and down at the athletic. When you're coming up through the ranks and all of that, at what point did you go, do you know what, being a pro is a real opportunity here? I think I was quite young. It was like district level, I'd say. So, our district was run by Roy Burgett. Yeah, he still runs it now. He pulled me aside for a chat one day and he just sat me down and he was like, look, you've got the talent. I'm a professional rugby player. You keep your head down and work hard. So, yeah, I think from then I really thought, yeah, maybe I'll give it a go. It's surprising as a coach how influential your words can be on a player, just especially at that formative age where somebody just says, do you know what son, you could really go for something here, isn't it? Yeah, it gives you a massive confidence boost, especially at that age. Coaches like Roy, who's been around, he's a British and Irish lion. If he sees potential in you, then surely he can't be that wrong. Hmm. And he's still doing it now, isn't he? He's still pulling players aside and going, son, yeah, you could do this. So, when you've gone through that level then and you get into kind of the Scarlets level, what was that first contract? What was that signing, that first contract? Talk us through all of that bit where you go from, do you know what, I'm a normal player, I'm, were you with the Quinns or were you with Sandobry? Yeah, I was with the Quinns. So, I've been playing there a few, no, yeah, I was with the Quinns. I signed the academy contract first with the Scarlets. So, again, Jack and Scott's dad, Anthony, took me in to sign my first contract, actually, because my mum wasn't able to take me. So, he came along, he sat down with me and Kev George and yeah, we signed it there. And I was in the academy for, I think, three and a half, three, four years, maybe. Then I was released the year Josh Adams was released. Are you in the same kind of year? Yeah, so I was in the academy with, so it was me, Josh Adams, Ryan Elias, Josh Helps, so that kind of year. Yeah. So, being released then and then coming back, how do you motivate yourself to go from, you know, just because being released is a, it's an awful kind of thing to happen, but what goes through your head to get yourself back to where you are now? It was quite tough, actually, because I got released from the Scarlets and then I got picked up by Glasgow Warriors back in 2016. I went there for a year and then I was like, oh, maybe, yeah, I can give this and go. And then I found out my ex-partner was pregnant with my eldest child. So, I decided to pack up and go back to Wales from Glasgow. And then, so, I worked in Castle Albuchery for a good old few months and I was like, oh, God, I can't be doing this. So, yeah, I just tried after that and then, obviously, I got a shot back at the Scarlets after playing a season with the Quins and I thought, yeah, this is the turning point now. I really got to put my foot down and that's when I signed a professional contract and it's been that culture since then. That's fantastic, because we know there's a lot of young boys out there that listen to this and when they hear a pro talking about this is, you know, it's not all, it's not a straight line, is it? It's not a straight, you know, I go here, I pick up a ball and then five years later I'm playing for the Scarlets. It's a lot of work, it's a lot of ups and downs, there's a lot of rejection and all that kind of stuff, isn't there? Oh, yeah. You've got to be prepared for somebody to actually tell you no or sometimes say, look, you're not good enough to play or, you know what, go away and do this, do this and then maybe in a year or two you'll be ready. You've got to take that on the chin and learn to adapt and develop and try to come back stronger. Hmm, absolutely. So, talking about coming back stronger then, next week is Edinburgh-Scarlet or Scarlet-Edinburgh stand with us, isn't it? On Friday night, I think it is. So, your thoughts, anticipation for that game then? I've been looking forward to that game since it got announced. I was hoping to play in it but I'm out injured at the moment so it was a bit cutting. It'll be interesting to see how Edinburgh get on with the Scarlets because, obviously, last year when I was at the Scarlets, that was a good win for us boys against Edinburgh. So, hopefully, now being with Edinburgh we can turn them tight and get a win for Edinburgh. And are you planning on travelling down and catching up with a few old friends or are you going to watch from a distance and keep your head down? I'm going to try and watch from a distance. I think I was down over Christmas, caught up with a few mates, down to see some family, some of my partner's family. So, yeah, I think I'm going to train, keep training, keep trying my best to put my hand up for a six-nation selection. Just keep training hard and watch from a distance. And keep your heads down because you know what the Scarlets supporters could be like for the opposition as well. I'm sure if you did come down you'd have a very warm welcome because you're very popular with a lot of supporters, particularly the commanding boys. You're a bit of a... well, they're your fan boys, put it that way. There's a lot of commanding big fans. So, Mark, Hugh, have you got anything before we finish up? I've got one and I don't mind if you want to cut this or whatever, but you went with Scotland in 21 and, you know, I have always said that you were slightly underappreciated when you were with the Scarlets and I have got no doubt in my mind if you didn't have a Scotland cap you would have been in South Africa with Wales in 2022. Do you have any regrets in choosing Scotland and not leaving that open for Wales? No, not really, no. Scotland's ranked, I don't know, where are we? Fifth in the world, is it? I think it's sixth since the World Cup because England have slooped their way back up to sixth. Yeah, somewhere around there, but look, I had a sit down with, I can't remember who it was, but they spoke about me playing for Wales and I think Wayne was in charge at that point of Wales and Wayne basically said to me, you're quite far down the peck in order if the chance were to ever come. So that made my mind up from then, like, as soon as I got that call for Scotland I had no doubt that I was going to jump straight on it because they seemed something in me that, obviously, the Welsh coach at the time didn't, so yeah, no regrets for me. Another era for the Pivock era. Cool. Huw, have you got anything before we round up? I've gotten all my stupid questions in, so I'm happy now. Have you worked out how to be a prop yet, Huw? No, but I don't think I ever will. I don't think that's challenged. It'll take you years, mate. I still don't even know. Fantastic. Well, Jay, thank you for your time today, mate. It's been a real pleasure. It's been a pleasure having a chat with you. If you ever are down in the area, give us a shout, because Martin's very generous with buying ex-players beer behind the bar, aren't you, Martin? Isn't that right? No comment. Fantastic. Well, mate, we wish you all the best for the rest of the season and all the best for international squad selection next week, because fingers crossed on that one for you. Thank you for your time today, mate. You've been absolutely superb, and yeah, all the very best. Thanks very much. All the best, big boys. Thank you for listening to the Scarlett's Fever podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Please subscribe, rate and review wherever you listen to us, as it really helps us spread the word. You can find us on all the usual social media channels or email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. And remember, whatever the question, rugby is always the answer.