Helford eases European woes

The hosts discuss their weekend activities, including watching a rugby game between Stand Up North and Pontyclun Women. They talk about the performance of the teams and players, highlighting the quality of the game despite the weather conditions. They then move on to discuss Cardiff Rugby news, including the re-signing of Mackenzie Martin and the acquisition of the club by Helford Capital. They express optimism about the new ownership and discuss their priorities, such as improving the rugby pathway, training facilities, and redevelopment of Cardiff Arms Park. They also mention the importance of financial sustainability and building infrastructure before investing in marquee players. Hello and welcome to Cardiff Central Podcast. I'm back in the hot seat today. So, as ever, I'm Harley. And once again, I'm joined by Colin. How are you doing, buddy? Yeah, not too bad, not too bad at all. Unlike other pods in this brand, we normally don't drink, do we? But today I feel there's a good reason to drink, which I'm sure we'll mention in a couple of minutes. But yeah, I thought I'd start on the whatever I'm on, the Indian pale ale of some kind. Excellent show, yeah. And I know I shall in a minute, because I've got some Pepsi Max with a lime, just to get an extra bit of sling into my life. So before we go in, so it's a bit of a slower week for news and with the first team not playing this weekend. So we've got a little bit more time to talk about our weekend. So did you watch any live games of rugby in person? Yeah, I did. Not anything on top level. It was very high quality, despite the weather, which was I went down to watch Stand Up North against Pontyclean women and really good game. Pontyclean were on top in the first half, it seems. Sophie Peters in the centre, she was absolutely superb. A few people were noticing her and giving her a name check as she was playing. Pontyclean, I thought, looked the stronger side. It seemed to be that Stand Up North just couldn't get any dominance. And then they started to come into the game, their attack particularly, so the backs were quite clicking. And then the second half they managed to pull away, Stand Up North winning 19 points to 15 in the end, which, considering the conditions, was pretty compelling to score a couple of tries in the second half when it was full in storm or whichever the first storm of the weekend was. I lose track by now, but yeah, brilliant game of rugby, high quality. A number of players that were involved with Gwalior and Brick of Thunder, the likes of Charlie Mendy, for instance, playing for Pontyclean, so really good to see. And yeah, I can highly recommend going down to Hayley Park to watch Stand Up North, and that's a good show. Excellent answer. And as I said, I think there's quite a few famous Cardiff alum hailing from that area, but we won't go into that sort of thing. So first bit of news, shall we move on to the news? There's only two bits of news, one of them good, but not to the same scale as the other bit of news. So if we go first of all, and that is, Cardiff Rugby are terrible at releasing signing videos, but the good news is we've re-signed Mackenzie Martin, and even a very dodgy McDonald's reference isn't going to spoil that for me. No, it didn't spoil it for me, no, I'm joking. It's great news, isn't it? It's great news, and that's three of the four new caps, or uncapped players, sorry, I should say, in the Wales squad that have been signed the new longer term contracts, and how great news that is as well. The cynical side of me sees it and thinks, well, get them while they're not demanding higher paid contracts, but the practical matter of it is they are going to be commodities, and they are quality players, so let's be honest about it. So to get those three, and hopefully Evan can stay around for a while as well, it'd be great to see him have a long term future at the club. So yeah, can't speak highly enough, folks, of that bit of business to get Mackenzie alongside and win the longer term contracts. I'm sure Harley backs that as well. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, just the talents of them, I mean, regardless of the Wales aspirations, which, you know, it's always great to see our players being selected for national honours. Just knowing that, you know, these young promising players are choosing to stay with the Caps, at least during this formative time in their career, was, yes, it's quite nice because we get them a little bit cheaper than if you do what some people say, Scarlett said, where they'd let players go to Jersey and Cornish Pirates and then pay for them to come back as senior players. That seems like a false economy to me. So let's get them up, get them through their 25 Caps, and if they want to move away and earn big bucks, you know, great, but let's keep them when they're in this sort of prime, prime being moulded in a full carded way. And, you know, and then as long as we can keep the pathway going, which should be good. And I suppose, I said, we're going to, I feel like we're going to be rattling through tonight anyway. So, um, you know, going to the big, big news today. Do you want to take the lead on this one? Oh, yeah. Well, the big, big news today came out last night at a ridiculous time, to be honest, but that's the other thing to mention. But the Helford Capital have, well, their proposal to go through with Purchasing the Club has gone through. It went through with a 99.99% vote from the shareholders, which is, well, pretty comprehensive, to say the least. I want to know who that 0.01% is. But anyway, very comprehensive deal. And yeah, they purchased 84.55%. So obviously controlling stake in the club, in the region. Sorry. Brilliant news, obviously. It's been something that's been touted, expected, whatever word you want to use for a while. So to finally have it finalised and the statement coming in the last hour, really reiterates their pledge to help the region. And I think having spoken to people that know, I haven't spoken to them personally, but I've spoken to people that have spoken to them. They seem really dedicated to rugby, really dedicated to improving the Cardiff Arms Park and the rugby experience as well as the academy, etc. So that's something that can only be demanded. And hopefully, all that proves to be true and comes out in fruition because, yeah, lots of things need to be improved. We know that. And obviously, there's financial difficulties behind, but it's great to have a backer now after some brilliant years with the Thomas family and someone else to continue their legacy. Yeah, absolutely. And also, if Phil and Neil want to, you know, feel like they want a platform to share with the fans, they're more than welcome to come to this podcast any time they like, if they're listening. And if they're not, and you know Phil and Neil, feel free to point them in our direction and, you know, they can decide whether or not they want to in this space. It does go into, it does lead me into one of the few listeners questions we've had over that sort of dripped in over the weekend. Apologies, I haven't got the name to it, but they're talking about what do you think their priorities are? And I feel like we've discussed this at length when the news first broke, but I mean, to me, it's got to be about on the rugby side is securing what is already good. So our path, you know, in Phil and Neil's statement, they said about how they want to secure and improve the fact that, you know, we are the second largest pathway, you know, we have the second largest number of players tuning through at the international level, compared to, you know, second only to Leinster. I feel like that, at least in Europe, I don't, I said I think South Africans have something to say about that. But, you know, yeah, so I think we need to make sure these pathways are good, trying to strengthen links with the likes of Cardiff Uni, Cardiff Met, Uni South Wales. There will be talks about bridging with Clifton College and the likes of Ulster Harpery, so academy prospects who wanted to go and do their studying up in those institutions could and still stay contracted to us. So I think that's got to be a first. They're not, you know, making sure we've got top end training facilities. So the, is it the foundation of the Pentwyn leisure centre? Yeah, so make sure they, you know, that is as good as anything. So basically, we're giving our players no excuses on that end. And then I think the final thing, which is, you know, they're very big on trying to make Cardiff a more sustainable club. So it's not, so they're not relying on having to constantly put money in, is, you know, redeveloping Cardiff Arms Park. Now, I think as part of this thing, Cardiff Athletic Club have gotten some more heritage shares, I think. Now, I don't know how they work. I think we'll have to get someone like Lynn on the podcast again. Hopefully she can help explain that sort of thing. But from my understanding is they get veto rights on certain things like having Cardiff, you know, what colours we play in, you know, Cardiff has to be in the team name and things like that. But if that helps get the redevelopment through so we can actually have it, one is a fantastic place for people to go and experience rugby, but also to be used on non-rugby days. Then, you know, those are the days where we're going to generate income that we don't necessarily, you know, we wouldn't otherwise. And I think, you know, and that's what's going to help us when we can start bringing up our salary cap. Then we can start bringing in big names or staying in the higher internationals. I think, you know, there were other questions about, oh, you know, well, you know, would they be willing to put in for these marquee players? I think it's the wrong time now. I think now is consolidate what we have, then build. There's a problem when you go Galacticos, it doesn't always work. If you look at the likes of Bristol and Racing 92 and Toulon, fantastic, huge, huge many players, and then nothing really happens. Well, I think Toulon would argue about the three Champions Cups, but, you know, at the same time, I think, I think I do see a point that there needs, it's the infrastructure that needs to come first. And it's that development of, that improvement of what is already there, which is clearly a working pathway. As we've spoken about the consistency of seeing four in-cap players in the Wales squad, along with seven other players in that squad that are quite based to have, have a better pathway, a better system going through, better training facilities. I do think that needs to come in. I think that's important. Having, you know, seen, seen, seen what's there. And I think that needs to be developed on and improved upon. And then hopefully the redevelopment of CAP to some extent, sort of something, some improvements there. Well, everyone knows there needs to be improvements there, but I understand that's a bit more of a difficulty situation with its proximity to not only town, but the principality stadium. So, yeah, obviously those are huge things that need to be looked at. And then I think you're looking at, once those infrastructure things are in place and improved upon, you've hopefully by then established a better team. And therefore you can bring in your marquee players that will want to join the club. And perhaps it will just be the military offer that you can offer them that will be tempting them. It'll be the offer of playing at a high quality team with a number of youngsters and well, players like Mackenzie Martin, who'd be two, three years down the line and better for it. And in a position where they're playing international rugby, we can reach out. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I said, I think, I feel like there's not really much more to say that we haven't already said in the past. And, you know, we can keep going over this in layers, but either way, this is, you know, another promising layer. At times it's been frustrating, but overall it's been actually quite an encouraging season for us this season. We're often interpreted as being negative, but I think of the four regions, obviously performances on the pitch is a bit of offspring, especially after the brilliant result on the weekend. But I think all the positivity that's going around Cardiff is brilliant and it's all future positivity as well. It's not necessarily a one-track season, you know, yes, Thomas has gone, but keeping the likes of Mann, Mackenzie Martin and Winnett, hopefully Brady as well. That's brilliant news. And then you've got the purchase, then you've got possibly redevelopment. They're all building blocks for a future, which is what this season has to be. And we've seen that on the pitch. Hopefully we can see it elsewhere as well. So, yeah, it's just really positive to talk about it. And yeah, I agree that I normally be the negative one and I may be going into the negative later on in this pod, but at least we can talk about a few positives at the start as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it's just, you know, a nice little thing to get you through the last of January blues. You mentioned Wales squad. So one thing that did slip when I said we've got four Bloom Blacks playing in the Wales under-20 squad. So Harry Wilde, Lucas de la Rua and I've forgotten the other two because I'm really bad at this. Yes, likewise, I will. I'll do a quick Google to see if I can find it. Yeah, you should do that. But either way, I mean, all right, it's not as many as for the Wales squad. And, you know, but it's encouraging that we do have, you know, we are continuing to pump these players through. Yeah, and whilst you're doing that, I'm trying to think of other points to make. One thing on Harry Wilde is I'm hearing a lot about him and I would like to see a bit more of him. That's a small point, but I've heard a lot of how promising a prospect he is. So I'm very excited by the prospect of seeing him in an under-20 jersey. I'd like to see a bit more of him around the Cardiff rugby system. Matty Young and Cody Stone are the other two. Both backs. So, yeah, those two to mention, obviously, as well as de la Rua and Wilde. But, yeah, obviously, we know what de la Rua can do, both at the under-20s level and the Cardiff rugby level as he's proved really, really well in the last couple of months. But he's one to look out for. Another name to mention is Edmund Woods, who's with Cardiff Met. Obviously, not quite with the Blue and Blacks, but one name to mention for the future, hopefully. As we mentioned about those pathways earlier, about having stronger connections with Cardiff Met and Cardiff Uni. Yeah, absolutely. And just want to put our condolences out to Roy Woodman for the injury he's sustained, which means he's unfortunately kept and that's been passed to his Dragons teammate Harry Ekerman. Yeah, it's just always shit because I thought he's been playing really well, well for the Dragons. I'd say probably the only player who's come close to the sort of Alex Mann's format in the Six Jersey, of the worst qualified Sixers anyway. Yeah, I'd possibly sign him as Reece Davis, but whether or not he's a natural Six or just playing there. I don't like it. I know Gav from Dragons League would be banging on that drum as well. Leave second rows in the second row. I thought I'd mention it, but I knew it was going to come down like a ton of bricks. But yeah, Woodman's been superb this season. It was very enjoyable to do the part of Yesterday, however, although we don't want to see anyone get injured, to do it with Yesterday, who's been banging the Harry Ekerman drum for about two years. So he was rather smug at seeing a player who's been banging the drum up getting the opportunity to be captain, which is brilliant to see. And his form, especially for the region now, has been brilliant, considering he's had some brilliant years with Newport in the past as well. So another pathway for them that's great to hear about. Yeah, that's it. That's all I did. I do like to, as much as I like to take the piss out of the other three, you know, I do like to also help raise us all up when we've got players doing particularly well. Yeah. Yeah, that's the majority of the news. The other bit of news probably to mention is the EDC situation, which... Yeah, it's an odd one. So I'll give a bit of backstory, which is obviously the EDC is the elite development competition, which is meant to be a new competition set up with eight to 10 teams, semi-replacing the Indigo Premiership. It's a focus on those players between the ages of 20 to 25, having those players and developing them to become regional and internationals. You know, the player they constantly talked about was the Jack Morgan being lost from the regional game going back to Aberavon and coming back and having that pathway for those players who perhaps don't make it initially at regional level, get dropped down and then come back. Initially, it was a sign on process and the majority of the clubs signed up, but Cardiff, Ponty and Merthyr didn't sign up. Steph Thomas from Wales Online, who, well, you've had him on The Wrap, haven't you? We've had him on the Welsh podcast as well, did a piece yesterday, I believe, about how Cardiff and Ponty had signed up for the EDC, had put a late bid in to try and sign up for it. Ponty have now denied that in, I think, the last 24 hours. They put out a statement online, just a short, sharp statement saying that they haven't put a late bid in and Cardiff haven't yet commented on it. It's all a bit of a mess. The initial statement from all three was around the lines of they were worried about the salary caps and the salary issues that they would have with going into the EDC. I think the obvious concern is, do you miss out on the opportunity if you don't take part and what is your venue situation? But, yes, it's all a bit of a mess now, isn't it, Ali? Yeah, I mean, the other one that they were worried about is because the EDC would be a much more condensed format. They'd be losing games and home games. I mean, that's a topic that's always on the minds of most rugby fans, although I feel like we've got to accept that. We're only going to get to a certain level of home games again with just how congested the whole calendar is and things, which is why it's always great with places like Cardiff rugby season ticket. You get the rags games for free and you get the age-grey games tacked on. Well, most of them tacked on to season ticket. I think they had a triple header for the girls under 18s cap and that was £3 to watch three games of rugby, which is fuck all. I probably barely, you know, the people who'd have gone there probably didn't pay for the referees' expenses, but it's an odd one. I mean, I get what you're saying. I mean, I feel like we keep trying to do something along these lines. So a couple of years ago, we had the regional A teams, which didn't quite work because they had like three games at the start of the season, three games in the autumn and then I remember the game later on and it never really worked. And, you know, I had the regional select 15s before that, which we used in the Anglo-Welsh and the British and Irish league, the old British and Irish league. I almost feel like it would have been better off if we had just separate entities so that these long-standing clubs could just carry on the premiership and they just stay on their thing. And then maybe they have a development side that is based, and you know, you do a grander share type of thing. And, you know, even if you did call them Ponty, say for the Cup two cards, one, they just went, well, we'll have a Ponty at the one. And then you've got the Rags, which can't, I think, use as a de facto team of that sort of style anyway. Yeah, I mean, if we're not in the EDC, then that sort of takes it, you know, would that affect your, more so like the Wales side of things, as opposed to coming up to Cardiff, because I feel like their pathway, they just carry on doing the same thing. And then the question is, is would the quality of the EDC end up getting much better than the premiership? And then at that point, then is it, you know, are we going to see a much bigger jump for these players, for these Cardiff players coming from the Rags up? And I said, it's just all a mess. I think the clarity and the communications around this from all parties has been really poor. Because it took, it took too long to announce who's going to be on the panel, which they still haven't, they've just announced it on the panel. No one specified what the actual criteria are for the eligibility of these clubs. The only one we know about is that they're supposed to be working on a budget of £300,000. But they're not saying if the WRU are going to front up some of that money, if that's coming from the regional sides themselves, or, or, you know, if the clubs themselves are going to have to stump it up, and I think that was one of the biggest fears of the three Cardiff regional teams. So I was at the announcement of, of the EDC initially, and that happened late August. And the talk was then that it was going to be a period of applying between September and December. Now, privately, I've had conversations with people about certain clubs not making it, surprise clubs not making it, on the ground of their, their facilities weren't good enough, and things like that, and that that was going to be part of it. That performance wasn't going to be factored in, was an interesting one. There was going to be two clubs per region, plus a club in North Wales, which obviously is going to be RGC. So you then have RGC plus two, plus two, plus two, plus two, and another, possibly. The situation with Cardiff has made things more difficult. I think the situation with what's going on in Newport as well is difficult. So, you know, who do you take from the Dragons region? Do you take Pontypool, who are up and comers and would feel a bit frustrated having worked so hard to get back up into the top level of Welsh Premiership, to not be then part of this new competition would be frustrated. I think there are lots of questions still to answer. It seems to be, you know, six months down the line. I think the communication has been made to some extent to the clubs that perhaps haven't been as open as it should have been, in my opinion, because I think not putting that criteria out clearly, not showing the panel, not, you know, extending the time period and things like that, it's all become a bit messy, and a bit messier than I think it should have been. If you want to regenerate the game, perhaps don't declare it on the eve of the start of the season is another point to make. I think there are lots of points that were not the smartest, but hopefully things will get smoothed out and things can be agreed upon, because at the moment, if you take those three clubs out, we'll see what happens with Cardiff, obviously, in the rags. But if you take those three clubs out, then it's a bit difficult to work out who those 10 teams are going to be. Yeah, I mean, it goes back to that problem that, you know, came up in the latest WRU report. One of the big issues is communication. And here we go. There's an issue with communication again. I'm not saying it's just the WRU. I used to work at the University of Exeter. They had a report where it said one of the biggest failures is communication. And they were really crap with the communication of the results of this report. That report. So I mean, it is a big company thing. Yeah, but it is frustrating. I said, I think until we hear a bit more about it, it's all a bit. He said, she said that until we get some nice confirmed statements in WRU or something involved. Yeah. Oh, sorry, go on. I was going to say about the positives from the weekend, which was only one, which was the Cardiff one, the right one on the weekend. Quite convincingly so as well against Neek, who obviously had a bit of a bounce back, but they won 35-17 down at the null. Bridgend took the win against Pontypridd in the Celtic Warriors derby, which was obviously a very touching moment for them. Obviously, they were paying tribute to JPR Williams after his passing two weeks ago and a number of his ex-players or fellow ex-players were there and a brilliant game. I think Pontypridd were very close to getting the victory there, but unfortunately just missed a few kicks at the end and Bridgend took it 15 points to 13. But yeah, unfortunately also Mercer couldn't play because of a frozen pitch at Pontypridd. Those were the weekend games in the Indigo Proud. All right, so I suppose we best took the elephant room. So we are officially out of Europe now, to no one's real surprise. So we lost 48-26 to Racing 92 in the Disco Dome with the weird kickoff time. Well, probably the kickoff time everyone wants that bit caught by three, but it just feels wrong for the venue. What are your overall thoughts on the game? Oh, it's difficult. Difficult to sum it up really simply. My initial... I don't want to say threw it away because that simplifies it a little bit too much. But I think my main feeling is if you work so hard to keep the score down for 20-12 at half-time, which Cardiff did, brilliantly so, and it has been a habit of Cardiff conceding last-minute tries at the end of the first half or points at the end of the first half, look at how that costs you, don't then throw it away with three cheap tries in the first 10 minutes of the second half. And that is my... I can't get away from that. Yes, it's negative, I know. We'll talk about the positives later in the game at the start of the game. But those tries are too cheap, too easy. Starting off with, you do something that Cardiff don't really do, which is play from their own half, play from their own 22, lose the ball. Reece Carradine does brilliantly to save the situation and takes out the goalposts in doing so, which you haven't seen doing the round on Twitter, please do. Then Thomas Williams needs to find touch. It's a really simple, brilliant bit of skill from Taddev to keep it in and then beat a couple of defenders to score. But that needs to be off the park. Likewise, then switching off when there's a penalty in midfield, everyone sort of honeypots in, draws the defence in and then it's easy to spread the ball out to Christian Wey who performs a bit of magic and Tom Foulery does make a kipper out of... That's what I was saying, but does an amazing, brilliant kipper in the corner and with some quick wink. And then turning the ball over for the third try. It was just too easy. That was my frustration, is you watch that game back as I did. So I sort of watched the first half and then I was driving and then had to go back and watch the second half. I was going back to the tries initially. Each one of those tries starts with Cardiff in possession and it was just a bit frustrating. I think that's the word for the season, isn't it? Frustrating at that point, but there are so many positives around that. It was just, I felt maybe seeing an opportunity gone daily was a bit strong because I think that team probably were the strongest side and would have won that regardless, but still it was too simple to give away. It is one of those really weird ones because for me, they scored three, was it? They scored two tries in the first, in like the last 20 minutes and then another three in the third. So it's only a half hour block really where we got blown away. Yeah. And you know, as I said, the one thing I thought that killed us in the Harrowpins game was conceding that last minute try and we thought, right, we've stopped it. Great. We can kill that firing and get on. And then it just, and then we let in that soft try and then it was like we were too shell-shocked until about the 51st, 56th minute and then we went, oh, hang on, no, wait a minute, we've got to defend. And actually we only let one more in from there. Yeah. You know, we scored two decent wins ourselves. Yeah. I mean, I thought when ball was going to hand, the attack looked really good. I said, you know, I'm going to carry on banging the drums or having Kerry and Tamani on the pitch together as long as possible, because that gives us go forward. Because if one's just gone into contact, the other one's ready to go and we've got the big, powerful carrier there. Ben Thomas at 12 just gives us some extra dimensions attack, which I think, you know, I think because he's that different player and he's more of a playmaker to Hullahalla, it does allow De Beers to be a bit more aggressive and carry a little bit more and that helps, you know, but then we can still keep shape. And again, that gives our midfield a lot more direction. I thought Alex Mann hadn't had a fantastic game until he went off. Actually, I thought our bench was overall was fantastic. I thought it worked really well. Kudos to his carry after sending a post off for HIA to, you know, putting in a decent 72-minute shift. He probably should have gone on about five minutes earlier, I think. I think you could start to see there was a right towards that last sort of 65, 70 minute, you could see he was really struggling. But I get it because you've got Rhys Barrett on the bench, he's only really played Bragg's level and that's a sign of where we are. You know, this time next season, I think Rhys Barrett comes on a bit earlier and we probably don't concede that last try. We certainly don't concede the scrum penalty to get that last try. Yeah, Tamani was unbelievable when he came on. It was a shame it was at the expense of Big Nick. My word, we have got to keep him. It's interesting you say that because a couple of weeks ago, I do remember sort of thinking it's almost inevitable that he's not going to stay. Oh no, I think I agree. He probably isn't. But God, it was just the turnovers he was getting. They've just reminded me so many times of Big Nick Williams where it's like, we need a moment and he just sort of comes, pilfers the ball, clean turnover and then we're up. And I think it is something we do as great as our sevens are. I think other than Thomas Shinn, most of them hold for the penalty as opposed to the clean turnover. I know I was saying this a bit occasionally, but I do think although we don't get many penalties that way, it helps because we're actually getting true transition ball because you get a really nice clean presentation. And because Tamani is so long, he almost forms that long route for you and the ball's away. I thought the defence overall, apart from that sort of half hour gap, I thought was mostly a lot better. So keeping that line and the line out was a hundred percent, but still a little bit wobbly. So it wasn't clean. They were very quick to sack Rory Thornton, but at least we were getting the platform, which is something we haven't had in a lot of other games. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, the bench was superb and Ben Thomas, he's starting to look like a proper player. Starting to look like, actually I correct that, starting to look like the player that he looked like two or three seasons ago. He came on the scene, looked like he was going to be a big prospect, had a little bit of an iffy spell, which is understandable for a young player. And he's come back stronger for it and he's clearly revelling in this, I don't want to say freedom, but the trust that Matt Sherwitt's putting in him. I think he looks like he could be, well in it for the long haul for Cardiff and could play it for a long time, which is great to see. Yeah. I think that there was so many positives from this European campaign. So when we're talking about Cardiff being knocked out and that it was inevitable, but I think a lot of people saw Cardiff being with big boys and I don't think that was the case. I don't think, you know, the Toulouse result was not great. Let's be honest about it. It was a bit of a humbling to say the least, but the performance wasn't actually as bad as perhaps the scoreline suggests. Again, cheap tries given away, but that was one thing. The Bath performance, that should have been a win. I think that's the frustration and that's the hindsight, is it should have been a win from the position they were in. Harlequin's, yeah. We've done a lot of stuff, I think for me. The second half performance has arrived up, the first half in the game, last minute try that I don't think should have been, but that's by the by. And then a performance against Ratting where at times Cardiff were as good, if not better than Ratting, but gave away cheap tries. I think it's, there's clearly the, we can see the chutes of a great team there. There is the chutes of a great team. It's just getting rid of the daft errors and I do think some of them are schoolboy and that's the frustration that you look at, you know, switching off from a penalty in midfield, that's a schoolboy error. That's a mistake where you go, come on lads, you know better than this. But I think there's other bits of the game where there needs to be a bit more streetwise, a bit more understanding of how to win at this level. But that'll come and when it does, it's going to be a good team and an exciting team to watch. Yeah, absolutely. As I said, it's nice when we agree on things. Yeah, it's nice when we can be positive, but yeah, I think, yeah, shame they're out of Europe, but as you say about, you know, to lose Harlequins and things of that, but look at how Harlequins handle Ulster as well. So, yeah, no, no, no. I'll just talk about some of the players we, you know, some of the players, you know, we have, because obviously it's Champions Cup, it's the elite of rugby, you know. You've got two, like the English side are on more than us, but probably not going to match. But you look at some of the players, so you've got Tia Khalisi, two-time Boxing captain, Will Rowlands, Wales international, probably our best player in the last three seasons. Finn Russell, who, you know, everyone thinks is amazing, Trevor Nierkane, you know, a World Cup winning prop. You've got Alex Dombrantz, you know, Marcus Smith, Dupont, Tommy Ramos, you know, Alexis Chirubai, Rohan Telhissi. Like, you know, a veritable who's who of the people who, you know, quite often are on the level of making World 15 of the year or the Six Nations 15 of the year. You know, and it's not to say we don't have quality and star players, there's just a lot of them are injured at times as well. You know, like, you know, our biggest, our two biggest players, you know, in terms of, like, brands are most recognisable, Saluki Salahatu and Josh Adams haven't, you know, Salahatu's been injured all season, Josh Adams barely played. Yeah, through injury, you know, and that, you know, that's the level we're at, you know, we can see where we need to go. And it's quite, for me, it was quite good seeing, apart from probably Toulouse game, I didn't feel we were too far below, too far below, like the Queen's game, I feel was just more of a write-off performance where we just, everything went wrong. That was it. It was just, yeah, ignore this. I thought against Racing, you know, for the most part, we were toe-to-toe, for Bath, as you said, we should have won, maybe in another word, you know, another game would have won. But the fact that we, you know, we're toe-to-toe and in the league where, you know, in the league we haven't, you know, we've picked, we've either won or we've picked the bonus points. Unfortunately, it's more of losing bonus points than winning. But the other big positive for me in the Racing games, we got a try score and bonus point, which is only our third this season, or third or fourth this season. Weirdly though, fourth highest tries in the RC, which just shows how skew that Dragons game was. But in a lot of games, we've been three tries, well, we've just not quite got that fourth. And I'm hoping that with the Racing game as well, it's hopefully going to be the start, the end of this trend where we're unbelievable for the first half round and then it tails off. So, you know, if we can keep, you know, if we can keep getting closer and closer to that 80 minute performance, but still playing the way we want to play, then, you know, I think that there are going to be a lot of teams that will struggle to beat with us. Yeah. And I think you speak of all those great players. And I think if you're looking at a Teddy Williams, for instance, if you're looking at an Alex Mann, I don't think they've looked out of their depth. I think, I thought Will Rollins was superb on the weekend as a buyer, which is great for Wales and anyone, you know, looking forward to seeing him in the Six Nations and maybe, maybe did show where Teddy can improve a bit more in just offering himself maybe a bit more as that first carrier, a little bit, that's maybe something that can work on. But I thought, you know, as well, Cam when he's played has been brilliant in Europe, haven't looked out of his depth. De Bia, I think, has stepped up in Europe at another level in the majority of his games. I think he's performed at a higher level perhaps than I've seen in some of the UFC games, particularly against Bath, where he was superb, but he was also very good against Toulouse. And Ben Thomas as well, is another way to mention. So it's not, it's not like these players are getting blown out of the water or are looking like fish out of water, for instance, at the level that's above them. I think as a collective team, perhaps it was a step too far, but I don't think it was a step too far for individuals, which once everything clicks, I think will be a good thing. Yeah, absolutely. One name that I didn't mention when we were talking about the game, I thought Jacob Beetham was unbelievable at 15 again. So, you know, if we can keep both him and Cam, that battle's just going to be fun for the next, so much fun for the next few years. Or if we're going to see Beetham a bit more at 12 as well. On our bench option, you know, it's, you know, it's great to have one player who's, you know, brilliant in the spot, but having a second player who's constantly pushing him is just going to make it better, you know. I think one of the greatest things we've had over the past couple of years is Thomas and Lloyd, back when they were at Nine Jersey. And, you know, although Thomas cemented himself as the main starter, there were games where you'd flip around and you'd have Lloyd, particularly like when you go to like the, like, wild areas of certain Galway and stuff, you know, you can just use Lloyd Williams to just kick us out of trouble. And then Thomas comes on last 10, 15 minutes of that moment of magic you need. Yeah, yeah, completely agree. I think, I think Pam is definitely the guy in the box. So you'd expect that from a guy when he's competing against a guy who's missed a year of rugby. So, yeah, I think, I think Jacob needs a run of games somewhere. And if you can get two or three games, that'd be great because in a weird way, it may be the best thing, well, not in a weird way, but I think Pam getting selected for Wales may be one of the best things that happens to Jacob in that he gets that opportunity to play week in, week out, play three or four games straight off the bat and get used to playing in this, in this high level, because I think he's still missing that a little bit. That's my thing on Jacob, but he looks, he's one hell of a physical specimen to be playing at full back, you know, the size of him, he's got a boot on him. I know when he kicked one out in the full against Rassing, but he does have a good boot on him and he can goal kick as well. Something I didn't know until a couple of weeks ago when I went down to watch Cardiff, which was him warm up and goal kick in the, in the warm up. So hopefully we'll see that in the future as well. Yeah, I mean, let's be fair, us Cardiff fans know better than anyone, you can never have too many goal kickers. Oh, that is painful. You never know. It's still too soon. It's still too soon to talk about. It will always be too soon. Um, yes. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's really exciting. I think this is one thing where, you know, you know, care for what you wish for with the whole not having games doing international windows, because obviously we're not going to be, we won't be in action now until the 17th of February when we host Connex, which again, I want everyone, let's keep going. It's always a great game against Connex. You know, it's always a nice open game. We've got a really good home record against them. And I think, you know, the crowd is a big part of that. And I think, you know, if we can nail that down, so I'm going to be pushing this every week now, is get them to catch the Connex. So I said, you know, probably have a go, you know, so Beaton will probably get the nod at 15 for that one. And then on the game in sort of March where I believe we're away to Glasgow, 3rd of March. I can double check that. You see, there is a 3rd of March, or it's the Glasgow, either that March rest week or the, or it's the first one straight out of the Six Nations when we're not going to have our, we're probably not going to have our international, so three games. 2nd of March at home to Leinster. Oh, cool. So we've got two Irish, both Irish home games. Well, it's really, this is where the format and the rugby calendar really annoys me. Because imagine now we didn't have Europe. If we had Europe and we put it, say, we put the whole thing after the Six Nations, we've got those four weeks in January. All right, maybe keep the 3rd for that one. Or they're thinking, if you've got the two weeks before Christmas, and then four weeks in January, that's another six games, that takes us up to 15, so we'd only have three games of the season left, of the regular season URC. Then you have the Six Nations. And then you could have that, you'd have Europe, then your last three games. And then you've got a run, at least you've got a constant run, because I think that's one thing a lot of people complain about is, when you get to this half the season, your home games are so sporadic anyway. So we've only got nine, but they're dispersed amongst, so you know, I think we've got four in this spot, but there's four games dispersed amongst nine URC games. Plus you've got the weeks of Europe knockouts, plus the Six Nations, and you're just like, so those four games get diluted into about four months. I get your point, but there's so many issues with the Rugby calendar, I can't get started. I think this season's a bit weirder as well, with World Cup etc. But yeah, until we can sort of get it all, that's it, I mean, New Zealand fans don't realise how lucky they've got it, because they've got their big pro competition. So you know, you've got the five Super Rugby sides, they play that, then the All Blacks then go, all the ones who are good enough to be in the All Blacks, or Maori All Blacks, they then go off and they'll play, they'll have their summer tournaments, warm-ups, then they have the Rugby Championship, then they have the Autumn to finish off. In the meantime then, any Super Rugby player who doesn't go into the All Blacks goes down into a Provincial League, so it's split to ages. It's the reason I think that system works, because imagine now, Cardiff basically only have to pay for the URC and Europe, and then those players went off, and then you split in between. So then, the premiership then are getting URC level players filtered through, and then you've got an extra thing there whilst the internationals are going on. So you're not going to have clashes, you're not going to be missing. Players who become your best players are playing because the internationals are away. I mean, that's kind of the whole idea of the EDC isn't it, to play in those four weeks in November and the fixations. The fact that we have, you know, Cardiff don't play now until mid-Feb, then it's March, and then there'll be spread gaps around, because we've got European knock-outs, which, well, unfortunately they're not part of this, but, I mean, I don't think you should ever hedge your season on taking bets on knock-out rugby. Not now, no. Yeah, it's that. I am planning to go to Conor, if I'm not working, which isn't a bad way of saying things, but yeah, I'm hoping to go down to see Cardiff against Conor, so definitely fill the gap, and hopefully a great game there, and then Leinster in a couple of weeks, and we know what Cardiff can do against Leinster at home, which is exciting to see. I was going to mention something about hoping to keep Bullock by half, but I feel like it's touching wood too much, so I'm hoping everyone stays fit for the Conor game, because I don't want to see another situation where we're trying to draft in different players to play Bullock by half again. As I said, all off by half, Dino Stabia. Yeah, I mean, from all accounts, Arbol's been playing pretty well for the Rags, so he's at least getting regular game time, and going back to my frustration, I would like to have, whether it's a Harry Wald or whatever, I mean, at some point I do feel like Sharratt's got to go, you know what, Stabia's as bedded into this system as it's going to get. The season's right, let's get the number two guy in, because, you know, it was a bit of a scare when Stabia was injured earlier on this month. I really don't want to be thinking, oh, fuck, who have we got? Yeah, I do agree. You know, you see it in American football where you bring in your second quarterback just to have a few snaps with the ball and that sort of thing. I think that would be, not that I've just started watching American football since Louis moved over, but it'd be nice to see your second ten, whoever that'd be, be it Ben Thomas, be it Arbol, be it Harry Wald even having a bit of a go at the ten jersey. I think that's something that I've spoken about for a while, but on the flip side of that, I don't think Sharratt's had many opportunities where he can say I can rest Stabia, and that would be his thing to say, is that they've never been at a point, apart from Toulouse and Tarlequins, where they're out of the game and he can rest Stabia without risking a loss that they could have possibly turned around. So, yeah, that's the flip side of that. I said to me, I think it just depends on when we get to, you know, what point do we say the season's effectively over? Because really, if you're not top eight, it doesn't really matter. You're playing time to get rugby. That's a crap shoot. Now, if you get teams, I still don't know how we've ended up with so many inter-URC ties in the Challenge Cup. That baffled me. And the fact that we had three Welsh teams in the Challenge Cup and not a single one of them tied with an English team seems really weird to me. But I don't like the scheduling. Looking at it though, I am seeing the possibility of 20 to 25 points at the end of the season. You know, Connacht is a winnable game. That's a possible five-pointer. Leinster at home kind of have won in the past. So you want to say there's a possibility of nine points, even though Leinster are a strong side. Then you're going away to Glasgow, which is going to be tough. You're going away to Manchester, but this kind of side has shown that they don't turn over easily and quite often get losing bonus points, even if they lose. So they'd be hopeful of that. You're then going away to Ulster as well. So, yeah, but Ulster haven't been consistent this season, neither have Manchester. So both of those, you think there's a chance of getting something. Then Edinburgh at home, and then you've got the trip to South Africa before Osprey's at home. I think all those home games are winnable. So I'd like to think that Cardiff still have aspirations at the top eight. It's unlikely, severely unlikely. So maybe see where we are at after the end of the Ireland fixtures and the end of those. That'll be my saying. But then do you want to shove a young 10 into playing out in Glasgow, Ulster and Manchester or South Africa? Not really. So it's two ways of looking at it, isn't it? I think the thing to me is you're looking at 10 wins. So it's 10 wins and bonus points to get into the top eight realistically. We're on three, and we've got nine games left, and two of those are South Africa. That's where I start going, right? We've got four away games, or five away games, and it's like two of them in South Africa. Our one home games judgment day, which we won last year, I don't think the picture's going to be anywhere near as bad as it was at Regen, because of the deluge. So I think the massive pack won't be as much of a factor. This is just me where we show that you are actually the optimistic one of the two of us. I think it's unlikely, massively unlikely. I'm just saying don't say no yet, is what I'm saying. Don't call the season off yet. But I think it's very unlikely. I think Austries are probably the favourites of the Welsh regions, and they've got a tough run in. So I think it's going to be hard for both Clive and Austries to get into the top eight, and hopefully one does. Just because it'd be really nice to prove a point in that sense, but also to get in that top eight would be brilliant for the future of Welsh rugby in next season. Yeah, I think Austries are quite lucky in the fact that they don't have that many of the Welsh squad because of injuries, and they're all due to come back over these big games. So that might actually swing in their favour. Maybe, maybe. As Hugh Griffin, the massive negatives person, was pointing out that Austries have only played two games outside of Wales in the URC so far this season. Is that a nice counter to this? Well, we've only played one. I think that's just because he's trying to make himself feel better about the Scarlets, and they're horrid fixtures at the start of the season. I think we've done Cardiff and European stuff to death. Maybe we'll try and find an ultra-positive Cardiff fan to come and give their take on it next week, because again, it'll only be six nations really to talk about. So as I said, the first team aren't playing this week, so do you want to talk about the upcoming fixtures of Cardiff Interest? Yeah, Indigo Prem fixtures. You've got Cardiff at home to Bridgend. That's a 2.30 kick-off at Cardiff Arms Park. Also, Pontypridd are at home at the same time to Pontypool. Merthyr don't play this weekend, but we had a little bit of discussion pre-pod about that Cardiff fixture being at Cardiff Arms Park at half two, because Wallier Lightning were supposed to be playing at half one on Saturday, but that's been moved to Sunday. They're playing at home to Edinburgh at the Cardiff Arms Park on Sunday, and they're in a great position, being second in the table. Hopefully they can continue their good form, one, two of their first three, so hopefully they can get a third win and possibly secure a place in those knockout stages. Brifton, on the other hand, are away at the Wolfhounds who are top of the table, and that's a 7.30 kick-off, still looking for their first win. That'll be a tough fixture for Brifton Thunder to get that first win for certain, but hopefully they can manage it out in Ireland. Those are the main fixtures. Obviously, Cardiff are still in a situation where they are fourth in the table in the Indigo Prem. They are, I think, five or six points now ahead of their nearest rivals, which are Pontypool. So that is really good to see, with the hope of getting that top four. Yeah, six points ahead of Pontypool, hope of getting that top four. Pontypridd are further four points back, just ahead of Merthyr. So all three Cardiff region teams have a good chance of getting that top four, although it is going to be a bit of a battle between all three of them, I think, to get that final place, alongside the likes of Sandovery, Evervale, and probably Newport. So that's our Premiership update. Just a reminder that the Rags home games are on the Cardiff season ticket, so if you do find, if you are missing a fixture, please feel free to join them. The Gwalior Lightning games, unfortunately, because they're not officially Cardiff, don't come under that. But, you know, either way, still go down and support it, because the Lightning have been playing some absolutely wonderful rugby at the moment. You know, currently second in the Celtic Challenge table, as far as I'm aware. So that's, you know, they're in a good stead to be in the top end of the nockets. So that kind of, I don't know the exact format. When we get close to the actual final stop, we'll have a talk about it more. Yeah, yeah, there is a knockout stage, but yeah, I think most people are a bit confused about how it's going to work out. But yeah, they look in a good situation, if they can get a win this weekend, especially. I said to me, it looks like it's basically the top two teams will play, the top two teams, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, they play a double aggregate. And then whoever wins on aggregate, because at least that's what it looks like to me, but it might be something completely different. Yeah, I'm a little bit biased, so I'll leave it to your expert opinion. But yeah, I'll see how it turns out in a couple of weeks. I wouldn't go and call any of my opinions expert. So we're nearly coming to the end now, because, you know, the Austrians got some bloke called Lance on tonight. So they've asked us to make way, because, you know, they need an extra half hour to do their hair and makeup. Yeah, there's some bloke called Lance. I'm going to imply that it's another Lance, but I won't do that for libel reasons. I'm trying to think of any other famous Lancers, and the only one I can think of is not, because I don't want to compare him to. Yeah, so look, Lance Bradley, new CEO, is joining Osprey Diary in possibly the worst kept secret we've been holding within the pod. So, you know, that's David Buttriss, Simon Mudrach, Lance Bradley, no one. Antony, the communications manager for Osprey, you know, so on. If Dickie, if Richard Holland or Alan, if either of you two want to come on and voice your opinions and correct anything you've heard out in the media, again, you're more than welcome to come and speak to us. And then all I want to do is just another shameless begging of, if you're enjoying the podcast, please review, leave likes, comments. It all helps us. Watch us on YouTube, because that helps, and subscribe to the YouTube channel, which is RAP Podcast, which annoys me because it's podcast, podcast, but Lee tells me to shut up every time I bring it up. And obviously, you can follow us on at Cardiff underscore Central on X. We're also on Facebook under Cardiff Central Podcast. And we don't have an official thing on Blue Sky, but I'm on there at Harley.worthy. So, you know, if you want to get in touch with me, in touch with us on there, feel free to message. If you are going to message us through Facebook or Twitter, if you message the pod channel directly, because it just means both of us can see a lot quicker and easier. Any other messages you want to get out there for Colin? Any pieces that have been coming? No. We've got the blog for the RAP, is probably the other thing to mention, is that we're starting up that, and there's a few ideas in the works. I've got a couple of them with Yes, then, that we're thinking about doing. But yeah, nothing for me to plug as yet. Yeah, still in the various stages of deciding what I want to do with the rest of my life. So, we'll see how that goes. Yeah, it's always a fun part of your life. So, all it leaves me to say is to thank you all for listening, and then I'd like to thank my co-host, Colin, as ever, for putting up with me and pushing the buttons. That is my job, yeah, pushing the buttons and putting up with you. Yeah, I deserve a pay rise for that second part, I think. Yeah, you can get a 100% pay rise. Right, so, that's all. So, until next week, ta-ra. Thank you for listening to the Cardiff Central Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Please subscribe, rate and review wherever you listen to us, as it really helps spread the word. You can find us on all usual social media channels, or email us on welshregionalrugbypod at gmail.com. And remember, whatever they question is, rugby is always the answer.