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Hey guys, welcome back to Women in Film, where we talk about just that, the role women play in the film industry, and how they're represented in the media. My name is Morgan. And I'm Haley. And we will be your hosts for this podcast episode. Today we will be reviewing and discussing a more modern adaptation of the story of Little Women, originally a novel written by Louisa May Alcott. The version that we are reviewing was released in 2019 by Greta Gerwig, a well-known director that also directed Barbie. Great movie. And Lady Bird, which are some other feminist films. Some of the actors that are in the film are Florence Pugh, Swartz, Ronan, Tisha, Ronan, for clarification, Emma Watson, Eliza Scanley, Scanlan, Haley can't pronounce things today. I'm sorry. They comprise the four lead roles. And then there's also Timothee Chalamet, but like... He just plays Lori. Yeah, he's not a little woman. He's not a little woman. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Also, some great older actors that are in the film, Bob Odenkirk, who people may know from various things, but also Better Call Saul, which is a spinoff of Breaking Bad. I love Bob Odenkirk, actually. I do. And Laura Dern, who plays Marmee, their mom, was in Jurassic Park. She was like the love interest of Alan Grant or whatever. And then there's also Meryl Streep, one of my favorite actresses of all time, who was in Mamma Mia, one of my favorite movies of all time. I love the cast of this movie. But for those who are not familiar with the story of Little Women, this movie follows a family of four sisters and basically just their wives, but centers mostly around the second eldest sister, Jo. She's trying to make her way as a female writer in New York in the 1860s, which is pretty unheard of, I would say, and is struggling to find her voice in the world and in her writing. So the story basically consists of two timelines. The first one is Jo in New York returning to Massachusetts after the second youngest sister, Beth, falls ill with scarlet fever again. And the second timeline is just their childhood during the Civil War alongside their close friend, Lori. Let's get into it. So, there's a lot to dissect in the movie Little Women. We could talk about it for way longer than we're going to today, but I thought I'd let Haley start by organizing some of the things that we're going to dissect today. Okay, so when I watched this film, I noticed that there are many themes present throughout it. In the title, Little Women, you can tell that there's going to be evident themes of feminism and sisterhood, and there are also some noticeable underlying themes of identity and the power of love. Yeah, I feel like all the themes kind of work. I feel like with Greta Gerwig movies especially, the themes all kind of work together in how they're shown because they're all interconnected, I would say, is probably the word I'm thinking of. The theme of sisterhood is deeply integrated in their identities, and it makes up the foundation of their identity basically, and that ties in as well with feminism because of just how they were raised around so many female, a lot of female presence and roles that they could look up to, especially Marmee and their sisters. And so a lot of different personalities came out of that, and I think having that safe environment of being who you want, being able to be creative and show your talents, like all the sisters had their separate talents and aspirations and everything, like Meg had her acting, and Jo had her writing obviously, and then Amy had painting, and Beth had her piano. They all got to grow up in this creative space, no one telling them how they're supposed to act. Well, not no one, but less influences telling them how they're supposed to act and how they're supposed to be as a woman, and it really, especially during their childhood, gave them a good base of identity and relationships with each other. And talking about their aspirations, there are a lot of stereotypes in the movie, wouldn't you say? I found that there were, specifically, in a speech that Jo gives near the end of the movie, I think it was one of, you said it was one of your favorite lines in the movie, right? Yeah. Yeah. It is also one of my favorites, and it basically points out the main stereotypes we see in the film. So basically she says, when she's talking about, it's after, spoiler alert for those who haven't seen the movie, it's after Beth dies, and she's talking about Laurie and how she hasn't, she rejected him before, because they were the two main love interests of the film, and she kind of rejected him all her life. But now she's talking with her mom, and she kind of regrets it. So that's when she says this, I just feel like women, they have minds and they have souls, as well as just hearts, and they've got ambition, and they've got talent, as well as just beauty, and I'm so sick of people saying that love is just all a woman's fit for. I'm so sick of it. I feel like it really shows how society, especially during that time period, was really pressuring and limiting women to what they could do and how they could act, and what they were allowed to want, because the whole movie, Joe and Laurie are best friends, but Laurie is in love with Joe, and she's never, I'm not really sure if I could say for certain that she didn't love him, but there's a good chance she maybe just never let herself love him because of her personality and wanting to keep her independence, but because of the time that they were in and all that society had thought about women, she didn't think she could have her independence if she was also wanting to love, and that's a big reason, I think, why she rejected Laurie, which, honestly, I'm kind of happy about, because the love triangle, which we're going to talk about later, Haley's going to talk about later, between Laurie, Joe, and Amy, I never thought Laurie and Joe should be together, but that's another thing. Anyways, so, yeah, I think that just the stereotypes that they should only really, their only purpose is to serve men and to have children and to be a good wife and have a calm temperament and not show their emotions, not get angry, just, that's how they should live, that's really shown in Joe's character and how much she doesn't want that and how aggressively she rejects those notions in comparison to Meg, who does want all of that, which we're also going to talk about later, but, yeah, I think Joe mainly shows how she desperately, really, she can't live with those stereotypes around her and that's why she rejects not only love of Laurie, but love in general, because, you know, at that time, as I said, love, in her words, is all a woman is fit for, not writing, not having her own career, making her own money, being independent, like, that was just unheard of, so, her being raised the way she did, having her freedom and having her independence and now saying, okay, well, I'm at a point in my life where I do want to look at someone like that and I want to have, so later she does say, I care more to be loved, instead, when Marmee asks her if she loves Laurie, but she says she cares more to be loved, because loving is, for her, it symbolizes everything she will have taken away from her, if she, you know, gives into that life of, what's the word, like, domestic, domestic, I think is the word, I don't know, but, anyways, that's my, those are my thoughts on the stereotypes in little women. Do you agree? I agree. So, when talking about stereotypes, the one big thing that we mentioned was the stereotypes for women concerning love and how that should look, and I think, Haley, you had some notes on that, right? Yeah. So, I personally think that little women have a great amount of examples of how women are made to feel like they were only put on earth to love. Yeah. And as Marmee mentioned, this really affects their sense of identity, and Jo so badly wants to keep her independence that she denies all love, when in reality she can have both, and Meg gave up on her dream of acting in order to build a family, each of them prioritize the things that matter to them most, when there should be nothing holding them back from wanting to have them, both of them. Yeah, no, I get that. Another thing I personally did not like about the film was the love triangle between Jo, Amy, and Marmee. Oh, yeah. Despite the great feminist aspect of the story, they had to include a plot where the two female leads fight over a male character's affection. Yeah, and you have that one test that you do with movies where you see if there's two female characters that talk about anything except a man. It's kind of like that, I feel like, even though in this case it's two girls fighting over a man. Exactly. It's contradictory a little bit. Especially in the case of Jo's realized love for Lori at the end, despite her constant rejection in the past, they built up her character as a woman that doesn't feel the need for a romantic relationship, and then conclude into it at the end, by making her want him again. Yeah, I don't know if it has something to do with the fact that she's in a really emotional state because Matt died, or something like that, but I feel like even though it was trying to be more progressive, it still reverted back to the same old formula. Yeah, and it's also really problematic that the second Lori is officially rejected by Jo, he immediately moves on to Amy. Yeah. Amy's the second choice, and he just expects her to accept his love, despite her love for him being unreciprocated for all of these years, and she says that she's been stuck into Jo her whole life and everything, and she will not be the person he settles for just because he cannot have Jo. Dude, that's one of my favorite lines of the whole movie. I actually love that scene, because as much as, spoiler alert, they do end up getting married, it is at least trying to break away a little bit from that, being like, no, you showed who you wanted for so long, you can't just switch back and forth on a whim. And even though she shows off her self-worth, she still ends up shaving him. Yeah, exactly. I think she also shows, the character of Amy shows that really well, because as much as Meg, she says she's always known she was married rich, and the whole speech that she gives about marriage being an economic proposition is kind of showing that more progression in the sense of women can actually look at marriage for what it is, instead of thinking that it's this fairy tale where everything's going to come out okay, but they can look at it for what it is, which is that it's kind of their only way in the world, and I think Amy recognizes that, and even though she does want to be in a marriage with love. Well, I also thought it was important to recognize that a woman shouldn't be judged for wanting to marry either, so women today are often criticized for choosing a married life over a woman's powering, independent life, and it felt like Joe constantly judged Meg, sort of, for choosing love over her dream career path, and Meg values love above all else, but she chose love over riches and acting. Although the man she falls for is not wealthy, she still picks him, and she's judged by En Marche for doing this. It feels like women are just judged for whatever they choose to do, no matter what it is, especially when it comes to men in love. Yeah, and by other women as well. It's such a deep-rooted thing in society to just criticize women at every turn, that it's become within our own gender, too. It's more so now, especially in modern times, girls are more judgmental of girls than anyone else, and women. It was my take on that. I think an amazing quote that encapsulates how it's okay for women to have different aspirations when it comes to that, is when Meg tells Joe that just because their dreams are different than Joe's, it doesn't mean they're unimportant. They're all equally important in each perception, feeling towards love is valid. I really like that quote, because I feel like it shows how they were really raised in an environment where they could choose how they wanted to live their lives, instead of being told either this is good, that you're marrying, and that you are only choosing love, and that you're taking care of kids, and this is your only role, or you can't have love because you're independent, whereas the March family kind of grew up knowing that they could have both if they wanted. One last thing about whole love expectations. Another thing, at the beginning of the film, Joe turns in one of her stories to a publisher, and he tells her that if the main character is a girl, make sure she and Mary were dead by the end. Either way. That was interesting. Also, because of the fact that the movie literally ends, spoiler again, if anyone hasn't seen it, that Joe, Amy, and Meg are married and then they all end up in one of those categories, with the exception of Joe also, and then that's dead. And then Joe wants to be married anyways by the end. I feel like it gives off that vibe of they definitely do get married. It's kind of contradictory, and we're going to talk later about more problematic elements about it. Talking about love expectations and what that means for women in this society, I feel like there's also a lot of toxic masculinity as well as toxic femininity that can be looked at in the different gender roles. The most obvious element for me, I would say, is probably looking at how men always have to provide. That's something that's mentioned a lot, especially in, I already mentioned this, but in Amy's speech about when she marries, it's her kids, I'm paraphrasing here, but her kids will belong to the man, and all her money will belong to the man, and all the land and everything, which is kind of just, we know that's just how it was historically at that time. But also, the fact that their dad, in Little Women, who is a loving character, played by Bob Odenkirk, who I mentioned, I really like as an actor, which I think, Hayley, you should watch more movies in a minute, but yeah, he is a loving character, and he's not a bad guy, but he is the one fighting in the war, and I think Jo even said at one point, let me pull up the quote, I think she even said at one point that, yeah, she says she wants to fight in the war. She's disappointed about being a girl. She's like, I can't get over my disappointment of being a girl, and so obviously, they're showing how it was during the time that women weren't fighting in the war, but in terms of looking at it analytically for their feminism aspect, they did have that progressive character again, breaking the stereotype saying, and the toxic femininity mindset that women aren't supposed to fight, or express their emotions. I feel like there's really rigid rules in this movie, and just in reality of what emotions men and women are allowed to express, like specifically for men, obviously that they can't show sadness or vulnerability, which we know is true in reality, as well as the story, but for women, I think it's more shown that they can't, they mostly just can't express themselves at all, and specifically with, like, if they're ever angry. Like the scene when Jo is mad at Amy because she burns her book, and then they go on the river, her and Lori, Jo and Lori go on the river skating, but it's not fully, I think it's like not fully frozen in the middle, so they have to stay around the edges, and she doesn't tell that to Amy, who follows them, and then Amy falls in the lake. And then when she's talking about it with Marmee, she says she can barely control it sometimes, which does make sense, considering how much men and women think that we should keep all our anger and non-happy emotions inside. And also, like, with Marmee, she says that, like, she says it, and then Jo's like, oh, I had no idea that you're always angry all the time. Yeah. And that just shows, like, she's always hiding it, and she does it so well, because, like, women have learned to hide their emotions. Yeah, that, well, like when she says I'm angry nearly every day of my life. Yeah. Yeah. I really like that quote. I feel like it's, like, it's a short sentence, but yeah, like you said, it shows how well we learn to, like, just internalize it, because what other option do we have? Because, like, you know, men are always telling us to calm down, men are always telling us to, like, not overreact, even though we're just reacting. Like, it's just our reactions. They just don't look like that of a man, because we're different. And it's not in a bad way. I think there's definitely, the movie definitely shows how, how, like, constricting it is for us. But another character that shows the toxic masculinity and femininity is Aunt March. Yeah. She always is talking about how the men have to be the providers, and how the women should marry rich all the time. And when she's in France, there's even, sorry, there's one part where she even says, like, these Frenchmen couldn't even lift a hairbrush. Yeah. They have to be, like, super strong and magical. And I'm pretty sure she, like, makes fun of Glory multiple times. Oh, probably. Yeah. She never approved of Glory. I do think it was, they probably, like, in terms of, like, their choices for the movie, it was probably for, like, comic release, because Aunt March did have, like, funny lines. But, like, it does kind of show how, like, ingrained it is in, especially, like, women of that time who were older, obviously, like, lived even further in the patriarchal society, that, you know, they had this one vision of what a man should be, as much as men had that one vision of what a woman should be, and there was no changing it, and if you went outside it, you weren't a man or you weren't a woman. So, yeah, there's definitely a lot of toxicity to look at and analyze. So, another major aspect in Little Women is social class and classism. Yes. There are huge differences in the way that the less fortunate live and the rich, like, in reality. Mm-hmm. And there are classes that range from Glory and Aunt March to The Homes. And to start with, like, the top of hierarchy, Glory and Aunt March are literally loaded and living in mansions. Yeah, they're living life. They're having a good time. They're given, like, pretty much anything material that they could possibly ask for. And why I say material? Well, Glory can't really have Joe. Oh. That was one of his greatest questions. Damn. You didn't know that. Wow. Um. Sean Fireman. This is why he was, like, so distraught after that rejection, because he can't, like, imagine finally not getting something. That he wanted. That he wanted. Yeah. And that's why I'm, like, really happy that Amy sort of called him out for his selfish and immature behavior. Yeah. She was definitely one of the only people that did that. Yeah. And Aunt March is, like, completely embellished in the idea of marrying rich, like we talked about. Mm-hmm. And she criticizes Meg. And she made it seem like they were being selfish for not wanting her life because, like, they have to provide for their family. Mm-hmm. And she tells Meg that she ruined her entire life by marrying, um, the man that she did. Yeah. And to be honest, Meg also, like, did experience struggle and difficulty because she did marry. Mm-hmm. And there were many instances where she wasn't able to afford things that her friends could. Like, she and her husband were in constant stress about their financial situation. Yeah. And she tells her husband that she tries to be content, but it's hard, and that she's tired of being poor. And... I got so mad when I watched that scene. Yeah. Like, he can't really help. Like, he's trying. Yeah. I think she just kind of loses her, like, she loses sight of things sometimes, which is not bad. Yeah. And, like, he explains how he's being sorry for, like, not being able to provide her with the things that she wants. I thought that was really sad. That is sad. And it's a great example of, like, the difference between, like, happiness with wealth and being poor. And I'm not saying, like, the rich can't be sad and the poor can't be happy, but it's difficult to be happy when your financial situation often determines if you're going to survive or die. Yeah. It's difficult to like the hormones. Yeah. Now, if we, like, disregard the disapproval of Meg's lifestyle and choices, and we, like, move aside from that, Amy is also judged for, like, wanting the complete opposite. Yeah. Amy goes to France in hopes of finding a rich husband, and it's clear that all of her sisters sort of view her more poorly because of this. Mm-hmm. And I think it's important to discuss this when talking about classism in Little Women. Mm-hmm. In France, like, Amy finds Lori, and then they begin, like, hanging out and stuff, and then one day he, like, oversteps and expresses how he feels that she's, like, selfish for marrying Fred Juan for his money. Yeah. And we talked about this quote before, but I'm just going to go into more detail with it. And, like, Amy's response to this, I feel, is significant and strong, and I really think that it shows how classism and womanhood, like, align in the past especially. Mm-hmm. She says, I have always wanted to, I have always known I would marry rich. Mm-hmm. Why should I be ashamed of that? I am just a woman, and as a woman, there's no way for me to make my own money, and if I had my own money, then that money would belong to my husband the moment we got married, and if we had children, they would not be, they would be his, not mine. So don't sit there and tell me that marriage is not an economic proposition when it is. Barge. Exactly. I love that speech. No one gives Amy enough credit, because I feel like she's definitely the smartest for thinking that way. Yes. She even says she's wise early. Yeah. Did she say that at one point? Probably. And, like, I remember when Joe comes back when Beth gets scarlet fever again, and she's like, Amy always has a way of getting out of the hard parts of life, and, like, she probably has the most pressure on her, because Aunt March is saying that she needs to save her family. Mm-hmm. And so she's immediately, like, mapping out a plan of, like, okay, I'm going to marry rich, and I'm going to provide, and then, like, yeah. And then during this time period, there was really no way for women to make money on their own, and yet they're expected to care for, like, children, family, and stuff, and are often considered, like, a failure if they can't. Yeah, and it's not even, like, yeah. It's not their fault. It's theirs. And despite their, like, assigned role as, like, the children's caretakers, those very children are not even considered their own. Like, they're... Yeah, exactly. They were inside of their bodies at one point, but they're not theirs. Why shouldn't they marry for wealth, considering everything they have online, like, for them? Yeah. And why are women expected to make so many sacrifices when, like, men don't have to do that? Yeah, exactly. I mean, I guess they fight in the war, which is a sacrifice, but who's to say women can't? Yeah, why can't they fight in the war? Exactly. Marrying a poor man does not bring the benefits that marrying a rich one does for them, and it's unfair to have all these expectations for women while giving them almost impossible ways to uphold them. And if anything, Amy is the opposite of selfish, like you were saying. Like, she knows her family's struggles, and she wants to provide for them and improve their quality of life. Yeah. So is she willing to give up on true love, which I'm sure she clearly wanted, on her family's behalf? And honestly, I think it's kind of hypocritical that Laurie, if anyone, judges Amy when he has no clue what it's like to struggle financially. Exactly. And I feel like no one realizes that Amy probably gets the least support from her family in terms of her passion. Like, everyone is always supporting Jo and saying how great she is in her writing, and no one is telling Amy that, you know, like, you're such a good... I never hear it in the movie, personally. You're such a good artist. So she's... I feel like she's, like, isolated a lot of the time. She really is, like, a good artist. She is. I remember in the scenes, like, with the paintings where she looks over and it's, like, different. I'm like, that one's worse, bro. Like, that's bad. That's not that much worse. Hers is like a baby. It's like a picture. Yeah, she says, I'm a middling talent or something. I'm like, girl, you need more... You need better support around you. Oh, yeah. I know. Okay. So on the other end of the spectrum of Laurie, there's the Hummels, right? Yes. And they're a poor family that consists of a mother and her six children, and they live in a crumbling shed and are on the edge of death most of the time. Yeah. In the 1800s, like, getting sick was deadly. And it doesn't help that they were forced to live in such a germ-ridden house due to their social class. And this ties into what I was talking about earlier. Like, the family doesn't have a father, and how the mother is expected to provide for such a large family without any means of making money on her own. Yeah. So that's why they're in such struggle. And in comparison to the Hummels, it sometimes kind of felt self-centered with, like, the Marches when they complained about their finances. Yeah. Because they're, like, middle class. And I don't know about you, but their table looked pretty full on Christmas. Yeah, it literally did. And I guess that they gave it away, but they were like, ugh. And then when they had to help out the Hummels, like, when the father got injured, and Beth was the only one being like, guys, are we going to go help that, like, poor, sick family? They're like, um, we will. And he had so many answers. He has a problem. Yeah, they're definitely not, like, the most innocent people in that movie. Or, like, they're not on that big, like, moral high ground. But anyway. Little Women, I think, portrays the three social classes, specifically in the 1800s. I think they did it, like, pretty well. With Laurie and Aunt March representing the higher, the Marches did middle, and then the Hummels lower. And I think that when talking about girls' struggles, it's also really important to talk about sisterhood. Oh, yeah. How do you feel about sisterhood in this story? I feel like it is, I might have mentioned this already, but, like, it really ties into all the other themes, like, especially identity. Like, their sisterhood is such, like, a foundational part of them. And, I hope foundational is a word, man. And, um, I, they would not, none of them would be the people who they are without growing up with so many female influences around them, and, like, growing up with their sisters. Like, they're all so different, but also have so many similar traits. And, like, it taught them a lot about themselves, especially, like, how to understand people better, and how to understand conflict, and how to, yeah, and how to understand, you know, like, the fact that people can have different aspirations than you, and it's okay. Especially women. So, that's what I think about it. So, obviously, this series, this podcast, talks about women in film, and that's, like, our main focus. But, I do think it's important to recognize different roles in film, especially race and people within the LGBTQ community. True, a woman, right? Oh, my God. And, um, yeah, sorry. And, looking at Little Women, there's definitely no LGBTQ or, and people other than white people. No, and that's definitely not the reality. Like, there were definitely people of color, like, back then, obviously. For sure. But, they're definitely not shown, I could understand if that was just a choice they made, because, obviously, they're focusing on these four characters, and they're not, and, yeah, and in the original story, none of them are, they're all white. So, like, that would make sense if they were going for authenticity of the story. But, I don't think it means that you need to omit the presence of black people at all. And, um, so, obviously, that can, that I find it a bit problematic, that there's just none whatsoever, not even, like, in passing. I mean, I suppose they might not have been of equal, you know, talking about class, of equal, like, position to white people at that time, but, um, it would have been interesting to kind of see that element incorporated in this adaptation. And, yeah. It's kind of like a lot of, like, white feminism and stuff like that. Like, it doesn't talk about people of color. Yeah, white savior. Yeah, like, black women and their experience, which I suppose you could do just, like, a movie about, but, you know, it doesn't hurt if you're doing this movie about female representation if you also include this, because this doesn't include the entire female experience. Yeah. Which can be a bit problematic, I would say. Of course, there's no LGBTQ, but I imagine at that time there was probably no talk of it whatsoever, because even in the 1950s, 40s, 50s, it was still, like, not, I don't know if it was, like, actually illegal, but I remember watching a movie about the Second World War in, it's called The Imitation Game. Have you seen it? No, I haven't seen it. It has been a big cover badge. It's one of my favorite movies. But in it, he's the guy that makes the first computer. Yeah. He's gay, and when they find out, they make him, like, go to trial, and, like, either, like, he gets put in jail, or they put on, like, put him on hormonal therapy. So, like, even, anyways, I got sidetracked, but even at that time, like, way in the future, it was very much frowned upon, so I feel like even back then, you probably wouldn't have heard about it at all. Yeah. So I guess that kind of makes sense, but at the same time, doesn't mean you have to, like, not include it. Yeah. If you're going for... And it's, like, a modern adaptation of the book. Exactly. Alteration. Yeah. And I don't think it would have, like, taken away from the story at all. Yeah. And, obviously, I think the most problematic thing about the movie is the ending, because I liked the ending. It rounded the story nicely. I'm sure it was, like, true to the book, which is what they were going for, but it's so hypocritical. It's so, like, all of them either end up married or dead, just like the editor said. And I thought, for once, like, they would just have a movie where maybe Joe... Maybe they could have had, like, Joe just opening up to the idea of love, maybe, like, not actually finding someone freaking immediately. And, yeah. I know you feel the same way, I think. It's just... Yeah. I feel like they could have... They could have looked at that a bit with more detail and, like, seen... Oh, like, I don't think altering the ending would have been the worst thing. They could have even, like, just had them on good terms as friends and then, like, kind of left it open-ended, but, like, you kind of know that they might get together. Like, even that is just... I don't know. Maybe it is true to her character. I don't think it's true to her character. Joe, specifically. But... So, as you guys know, every episode, we do three separate ratings. The movie in general, the movie in terms of women in film, and then the movie with... concerning, like, problematic elements that it has. How diverse. How... Yeah, the diversity within it. So, the first... I... Overall rating, I'm going to say probably 9 out of 10. Yeah, I really liked the movie. I'd probably give it around, like, an 8 out of 10, too. So did I. I think it stayed true to the story and the acting was phenomenal. Great actors. They were... They are great actors. It's a stacked cast, I would say. Feminism Ring. I don't know. I don't know about this one. It doesn't mean that it's, like, people of color again. Like, women of color. So there's that, but it does, like... It does... No, yeah, it's definitely more progressive. But also the ending as well. So it's like... I'm going to give it... I'm going to give it an 8. I'd give it, like, a 7 or an 8. 7 or an 8. Yeah. And then, in terms of diversity, let's give it a 0. Like, a 0. Yeah. But... But, like, overall. Like, overall. Obviously, it's a good movie, but... Yeah, it is a good movie. And not every movie needs to include every single element to make it, like, super progressive. Because it is a progressive film. But just because we like to criticize it like that. Well, guys, it was great having you here. We hope you had a great time listening to Women in Film. And we'll see you next time.