Podcast RED FLAGS Pt 1

The transcription is a conversation from the Wisdom Workshop podcast discussing red flags in relationships. The hosts talk about how red flags can be subjective, signaling caution rather than immediate rejection. They mention the importance of context, self-awareness, and grace in dealing with red flags. They share personal experiences and emphasize the need to evaluate red flags in relationships through a biblical perspective. The hosts also discuss the tendency to quickly dissociate from relationships and the importance of recognizing, addressing, and learning from red flags for personal growth. Welcome to the Wisdom Workshop, the show that brings you timeless truth you need for everyday life. Join our host, Stephanie Oliver, for a fresh perspective from God's Word on the topics that matter. Whether you're facing cultural confusion, financial pressure, relationship challenges, or just trying to grow in your faith, you're in the right place. Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong. And those with knowledge grow stronger through faith. î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong. And those with knowledge grow stronger through faith.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î Proverbs 24 says, ìThe wise are mightier than the strong.î It is Wisdom Workshop podcast time and we have our professional counselor team member who is Nicole Turner. If you missed Episode 5 and was not able to hear the great wisdom that she has, go back and listen to it once you finish listening to this one. So I just want to welcome you today and I'm so glad that we get to sit and talk about a subject that I think is really pertinent and something we all want to hear more about. So hello, Nicole. Hello, everybody. I'm excited to be back here on the Wisdom Workshop podcast. Oh, we're glad you're here. So today we are talking about red flags. I'd like to go as far as we can really discussing what they are, what they look like. We've talked about this briefly before and you bring up some really good points about just clarity on what is a red flag, what does that really mean. And so when you hear the word red flag, what does it mean to you and then what do you think it means just in general? Yeah. So the term red flag can be subjective, honestly, simply because a red flag to me might be different than a red flag to somebody else. But overall, in general, I like to think of a red flag less of a stop sign and more of a caution sign. It means, whoa, whoa, whoa, something's going on here. I noticed a behavior or a trait or a situation in my spouse and my friend and my family that is not necessarily beneficial to the growth and development of this relationship. That's good. I think red flags exist not just in romantic relationships, but they are things that we can watch for in family and friendships and in other community environments that we're in. But before I dive into this, the different types, I do think it's important to clarify what a red flag really is. So initially, I think the whole idea of red flags, it stems from sports, right? If you're watching a football game and a red flag goes up, it's like a foul. And it means we got to pause the game and renegotiate whatever just happened and then make amends or involve a consequence. And I just wonder if we've gotten away culturally from that context of it, because now it feels like red flags are just reasons to reject people. It plays a lot into the whole cancel culture, and I really think it undermines what grace looks like or should look like in relationships. What do you think about that? No, I absolutely think that that's true, right? And yes, it initiated with sports, but also I think of like a double red flag at an ocean or a beach. Oh, yeah. Right? Like, it's this idea of stop, don't go near, it's dangerous. And I think a lot of the times, too, when we think of red flag, social media, I feel like has kind of extended this cancel culture situation that red flags have come into. But if we look at it biologically, it might be our body's sign to say that there's danger and we need to employ defense mechanisms, which could be that I'm done, I'm stepping away, I'm not going near this. And it's because of that feeling of unsafe or insecurity or a fear there. That's good. So one of the things I think about are just how in some sports, you know, this idea of red flags just brings me to mind of the fact that it's not an opportunity for abandonment or to end the game, it's let's renegotiate the play, let's figure out what just happened. If it's legal or not, if it's something that we need to have a consequence for. And I think we've lost all of that, though. I really do. I feel like people are more concerned with self-preservation than they are with loving others as they love themselves. That's what I feel. So I think our discussion today, one of the things I would love to hear are about times when you maybe realized that there were red flags in a particular relationship, how you dealt with it. Did it mean that you left the relationship or did it just change how you interacted with that person, what that felt like? Anything you want to share with us that might help somebody who feels like they're always running into red flags with people. It's hard to think of one off the top of my head. But as you were speaking, the first thing that came to my mind is actually something that I share with a lot of young couples, especially engaged couples or couples that are early on in their marriage. And it's the night that I threw a stainless steel cup at my husband's head at midnight. Now, that's probably a red flag from him to me, right? He's probably like, who in the world did I just marry? But at the end of the day, some things that I noticed was like, we are not getting along well. I felt like in those moments, he was constantly picking at me, constantly picking at me, like, do this better, do that better. And it was out of a place of stress. But that's context that I think is super important when it comes to, oh my gosh, I just saw this red flag in somebody, what do I do? Before leaving, let's assess the context. Where and in what situation is going on in that person right now? What are they walking through? What are they experiencing? What just happened on their job or what hard conversation did they just have to just get out of that created maybe a contemptuous environment or created a situation where you saw maybe more of an unhealthy part of them that they have yet to identify and heal through? Right. So that's my question now or what it tries to be anyway. I don't always handle myself the way that I'm supposed to, but most of the time I try to take a step back and go, what is the context of this and where is this coming from? So that's kind of like there are two sides to what you just talked about. So there's recognizing your own red flags. And then there's also how do I deal with other people's red flags? I think if I can stress anything for listeners, but also I try to remember this for myself because I have typically been the person that dissociates quickly. I am very much like, oh, this isn't working. Goodbye. We don't have to labor the fact that this doesn't work. And I was never that way with my husband and my marriage, but I was definitely that way in friendships. I definitely felt like that often in work environments. I don't have to be here. I used to feel like, okay, I have some skills and I have the capacity to find a job somewhere else. But as I matured, I started to realize, okay, not everything that is considered a red flag is a reason to let go or to abandon or to jump ship. And so that in itself was kind of a hard space for me because I do think it was rooted in self-preservation. I think it was rooted in fear and anxiety, being hurt by other people and deciding that's never going to happen again. So probably some pride in there. But I think it created in me this inability to relate to people out of the goodness and the grace of God. And it pushed me to a place of like, well, how are they acting? I've read Matthew where it says, you're going to know people by their fruit and their behavior is their fruit. But I don't know. I just think as I matured, this whole idea of red flags became less important to me. And grace and understanding and healthy boundaries and self-awareness, all those things became really important. I think too, just kind of jumping off of what you were just talking about, how you kind of recognize the red flags and then you're like, no, I'm out. I'm not doing this. I think about the people who don't recognize the red flags until after the relationship has ended for one reason or another. And then they have to go back and process, how did I miss this? Why did I miss this? And really, why was this such a big deal that caused such a risk? That's something that I've had to do in my own walk with friendships, people that I thought were maybe around for the long haul that weren't. And at the end of the day, I have to go back and recognize like, what did I miss? And why couldn't I work through that? Why couldn't this relationship stand the test of time through that potential red flag? Another thing I think that comes to mind that's important, when we think about what it means once we do recognize a red flag, either post or during a friendship, relationship or context, is as a believer really understanding, okay, there is a problem. What do I do? And for me, I've grown into sort of an evaluative process that really sits in the scriptures. So I think about Galatians 5, and I say to myself, what does it say that can help me deal with what I don't like about other people? And then I think about Colossians, I think it's the third chapter, it might be the ninth, that can help me deal with what I don't like, or what doesn't work, or even what injures me in other people. And so the first one was Galatians 5.16, it says, so I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Now, the rest of that scripture talks about how we won't be enslaved, or we won't be obligated to the nature of the flesh, but we'll do what the Lord desires and to recognize this fight. But he starts this recognition process with let the Holy Spirit guide your life. And so when I start to recognize things aren't good in someone else, or even myself, my first thing is to say, okay, where's the Holy Spirit at work in this? Where is the presence of God meeting me in this? Where is he in the midst of this? And sometimes if you can't find him, that is an opportunity to say, okay, this red flag is showing up, because I need to depart this situation, or I don't need to be a part of it. But then there's a scripture in Colossians that says, make allowance for each other's fault. So then I have to go back and say, is this a fault? Or is this a work of the flesh that they're continuing to choose, and create boundaries and do things based on that. And even that process is informed by the Holy Spirit's guidance and leadership. So I guess that was a long way around the bush to say, you got to have a process that you approach failures and faults in the flesh of other people, so that you don't end up like I did, living out of trust wounds. Or you don't disconnect in valuable environments, because you don't know what to do with other people's issues. Yeah. So I don't know where that lands for you. Yeah. No, I was just thinking that, in addition, and kind of in tangent, if you will, with seeking and being led by the Holy Spirit, is also allowing Him to reveal your wounds. And what is this touching for me? What is this poking on that might be something that I have to talk to somebody about? Might be a hurt or a trauma or something that I didn't even realize impacted me greater than what it actually did, that is creating this reaction between me and this other person that is unhealthy, really. And it can go both ways, whether it's the red flag in myself, or whether it's the red flag in the other person. Why is this hitting me so hard? And I think that is the counselor perspective, if you will. The counseling side of this is, you don't have to have these big, enormous traumas to have something hit you the way that it does. And part of allowing the Holy Spirit to work through you is being self-aware to a point of, what are those buttons? And why is it being hit? And how can I work through that, both in myself and in this relationship? So what do you do when you realize that this has to end? Like you've seen the red flag, or maybe they trigger all your red flags, and you've resolved, this is toxic, and if I don't get out, this is going to kill me, or it's not going to lead me where I need to go. Yeah, so I think that's a really big question, right? And it's important to break this up. And that my first response, unless you get a direct word from the Lord, my first response would be, let's try out some boundaries. Let's set some things up. Let's work through some things. Let's maybe have a conversation with this person in a healthy way about what's going on. Now, this doesn't work in abusive situations. If it is abusive, run. Get out, right? Okay, I'm going to interrupt you. How do you know if something's abusive, or if it's just toxic, or if it's... Toxic is one of those words, right? Oh, okay. Well, help us out. Toxic is one of those words. We like to say something is toxic, when in reality, it's just a difficult circumstance. Or we're just offended. Or we're just offended. Not everything is toxic, but abuse really is, if we're looking at the physical abuse, the sexual abuse, obviously, get out of those relationships, right? That is clearly abuse. But I believe your question is centered around emotional abuse. And how do we define what that is? Well, it's the same setup. It's the same setup. It's the little breadcrumbs. It's the I love you's, just to get you back on my side. But then we're yelling, and screaming, and arguing, and you're so stupid, you're never going to amount to anything. I can't believe I married you, or I can't believe I'm friends with you. Or I had you, or like... Or I had you, yeah, absolutely. But then it's, I'm going to flip around real quick, and go, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean that. You know, I love you. It's all the justifications, right? So it's the same abusive cycle. It's just with words, instead of actions. That I think is an important distinction. Those types of situations, flee, get out, run. Because as much as you think you are going to save that person, you are not capable of saving someone who is an emotionally abusive person. So that's like, to me, a warning to say, when you're in an environment, so I think of abuse as like circumstances that are relational, that bring you out of safety. Like whether it's emotional safety, or physical safety. But when you recognize that there's a pattern of that, or maybe in some cases, you don't realize it's a pattern, but it's happened. And you're not safe, that you need to exercise the courage. I'm just trying to clarify what you're saying. Exercise the courage to say, okay, this is not only a red flag, this is an exit sign. Yes. Yeah, I think the big word here is pattern, right? Because I can have what I perceive as an emotionally unsafe conversation, but then come back later, where we're both calmed down, and we reach a resolution. So I want to ask you about that, though, because I think about patterns. But then I think about myself, I'm not going to sit for a pattern if you hit me. Well, that's different. Remember, I said physical abuse, or sexual abuse is completely different. Immediate. Immediate exit strategy, like we're out of there. Why is emotional abuse given more tolerance? I think that's a good question. And I think people are just wrapped up in the emotions of this person. Sometimes I'll have clients that come in, and I'm like, yep, this is an emotionally abusive cycle. And it's this, it's one of two things, normally, it's I love them so much. I love this person so much that I can't bear to put in a boundary or I can't bear to make them upset. Or it's the guilt and the shame of how did I let myself get into this situation? I think you bring up some really important stuff. Okay. I know we don't have hours. But when I what I'm hearing you say, and I think it's really speaking to me just about other conversations I've had, when you're in a situation, because I've seen friendships that are emotionally abusive. Absolutely. But when you're in a situation where there is a, especially with emotional abuse, it is okay to sit long enough to recognize if there is a pattern. Absolutely. What makes that okay in emotional abuse and not physical or sexual abuse is the capacity for self-deception, for the enemy to exploit our thoughts and our mind and ideas in ways that don't happen in physical abuse. I think, I think there are some of those things come alongside physical abuse. But once you are physically endangered, absolutely, your life is at stake. So I get that. I don't know if that's what you're saying. Yeah, no, you're right on track there. I see it a lot. Like I do. You bring up guilt and shame. All of those are tools of the enemy to get us in a place of deception about what's really happening. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. You know, and I think part of that too, is going back to scripture, right? The enemy likes to take scripture and twist it just enough where it sounds right. So in those situations too, I think it's very possible that the enemy is whispering, you know, you can't drop that friendship. You know, that's not the Christian thing to do. Remember scripture says this, be led of the spirit, make allowances for their flaws. Well, what do we do in that situation? Right? So I think the enemy can really twist that and, and turn something to where you're inviting an abuse cycle or inviting a relationship that should have been gone a while ago. Mm hmm. That, that brings me back to this idea of flaws or flesh. Mm hmm. I feel like, see, I'm, I'm growing in this too, because I find that when people have flaws, I am more tolerant unless I can find it in that list of works of the flesh, in Galatians 519, because I do, I think those are demonically instigated. I think the enemy tries to come in and he exploits our points of pain and flaws are like unintentional. I think of flaws as like unintentional habits, or, or, or character traits that aren't mature. Things that with time should get better. Absolutely. And there's no, there's no nefarious intent behind it. But I think of the flesh, and I'm like, oh, we don't have time for this. You can't be honest, you're, you're lustful. You can't be true and faithful, you're idolatrous, meaning that you pursue things without regard to how it impacts other people. All of these things, I mean, this to me, these to me are the biblical red flags. And just like later on, I think the fruit of the spirit are the green flags, so to speak. Those are the ones that if I need to see some of these for us to stay in covenant or stay in relationship or even in friendship, if I can't find any of these, I got a problem. Well, let's think about this for from a non-biblical perspective for a second. If you go to any person who does say they don't believe in Christ, they don't subscribe to Christianity, they're going to say very similar things. If you ask them the question, how do you know that? How do you trust somebody? What does that look like? They're going to list, well, they're trustworthy or they're honest, or they're, they love me, right? So like fruit to the spirit, how do you know that something's a red flag? Well, they'll likely list a lot of those things that are listed in Revelation 5. So the Lord is just so good in that way that he integrates new human behavior. He did. He did. So yeah, I mean, it's true. It's not just biblical red flags. Those are red flags. Well, well, we're going to take a short break and go to our wisdom when, and I will continue this conversation with you on the other side. Hi, I'm Carolyn. I'm here with your wisdom when for the day, fear and anxiety can make your world feel very small. They can convince you to stay stuck, overthink every decision and expect the worst before anything has even happened. But God's wisdom gives us a different way to live. Proverbs 12 25 says anxiety in a man's heart weighs him down, but a good word makes him glad that verse is so honest. Anxiety is heavy. It drains your energy, clouds your thinking, and can make even simple things feel overwhelming. But scripture also gives us hope. A good word can lift the weight. What is our good word for today? It is the reminder that God is with you. You are not abandoned. You are not forgotten, and you do not have to carry every burden alone. Sometimes the good word comes through scripture, sometimes through prayer, sometimes through the encouragement of a trusted friend. God often sends comfort right when we need it most. If anxiety has been weighing on your heart lately, don't isolate yourself in fear. Fill your mind with truth instead of worst case scenarios. Speak life over yourself. Wake up when worry rises. And remember that God cares deeply about what concerns you. Anxiety may try to weigh you down, but let the light of God's good word in and see the difference it makes. Thanks for joining us for that wisdom win. Now, let's get back to the episode. All right, well, welcome back in case you are just joining us. We are in an incredible conversation about red flags with licensed professional counselor Nicole Turner. She is just dropping truth and helping us to gain right perspective about what it really looks like to recognize a red flag and what you do once that's the case. Let's go back to that a little bit and just clarify. We talked a little bit about emotional abuse and understanding what is abuse and how we are aggressive when it comes to physical and sexual abuse, but we look for patterns and things with emotional. And I think I was just kind of saying earlier, why does emotional abuse get a pass and we look for patterns, but we don't with physical or sexual abuse? Maybe you can clarify that for me before we move on. So like I said earlier, a lot of it has to do with the guilt and the shame that we experience whenever we get into relationships like that, specifically more on the side of how did I let myself get into this type of relationship? And then we have the flip side of the same coin, which is the, but I love this person and setting a boundary is hard or I don't want to let this person go because they've been maybe they've been so influential in your life. That they could be a emotionally abusive person. I do think it's important to distinguish the difference between emotional abuse and what is a red flag and is this red flag something that we can work through? So again, another good point you bring up. I said earlier how I struggled to move past when people choose to sit in works of the flesh, but so many times just in my own life, I can think of where the Lord has brought difficult people into my life and they are carnal. They are full of the flesh and the spirit of God will require me to walk in grace. Sometimes for a shortened specific period of time and then sometimes it's like, okay, Lord, are we done yet here? Because this person rubs me the wrong way all the wrong, all the time. Like it's just never the right thing. And so there are times I don't know if the Lord is just sharpening me and it's the thorn in my flesh that keeps me humble. And so God saying no, especially with family. I think about family. You get to choose your partner. You get to choose your friends, but you don't get to choose who your parents are. You don't get to choose who your siblings are. You don't even really get to choose who your kids are. You can train them, but who they are, like their temperament and those sort of things, you don't get as much of a choice in that as you might hope. And so I think about those environments where people are full of their flesh. One of the examples that comes to mind is this whole, so I go through this list and I think, well, my family didn't deal with that. My family didn't deal with that, but maybe this outburst of anger thing is an issue for me and it's a complete red flag, but I can't run. So what do I do? Yeah, I think that's a very important question, right? And something that is super important to remember is that it might look different with different people. So it's I'm going to try and give generalities, but sometimes these things you've already tried and they didn't work or we might need to look at something different. And sometimes I go back to scripture and remember that sometimes these things only come out with prayer and fasting. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. So we have to remember, right? Like it's not a one size fits all because God made us unique. We're all different people and we are all working through different things. Both you and I and these people that we might have identified red flags in. So my first question is always, are they humble enough to understand or be self-reflective enough that they are part of the problem? What if they're not? What if they're not? Well, that's really hard and I kind of want to run, but we can't always do that. Right. Because I think this is one of the biggest problems that I see, especially in the counseling office, is we have people come in and they're like, my family sucked. They were awful. And I've just completely cut them all off. And no contact, no contact because of all of these issues and all of these red flags. And that's really lonely and that's really isolating. And sometimes, not all the times, go back to the first part of our conversation to help distinguish between what is appropriate and what is not. But sometimes it's not appropriate to just completely cut contact with people, especially your family, because it is really isolating. And that right there is a work of the enemy. That right there is the enemy going, hey, they did this to you. You should just leave. You'd be better off alone. If you never talk to them. If you never talk to them again. And that's not always true. It's not always true. And it's so unfortunate. And I've had family members that I've gone through really, really hard seasons with. I'm not going to go into specifics, but it's been really hard. It's been really hard. And it led to a couple of years of not speaking to one another. But I had to humble myself. They had to humble themselves and we had to work on it. And we have to. So, one, what is the perspective? What is the context of the other person's life? What are they going through? And could that be playing a part in this? Two, what is the thorn? Right? Like the scripture says, and you're going to have to help me with this. Check the plank in your eye before you point out the speck in someone else's. Right? Like, what is my plank? What are the things that I need to work on and I need to grow in as a result of this situation? And then three, and I think this is probably one of the most important steps are, where do I need to reassess my boundaries? Because a lot of the times the outburst of anger could be a result of a boundary violation or a lack thereof. There's a scripture that comes to mind where it says, don't, you know, don't associate with angry people. And I have seen people choose rejection of others because of that. That's a question that comes up a lot. Like, well, the scripture says don't associate with angry people. And, you know, here is what I have also seen. A soft answer turns away wrath. But if you're not present to offer it, then it's going to remain. I think we cherry pick and use scripture to our own satisfaction. And it's not really the context or what God meant. Absolutely. And I think we look for reasons to avoid the hard aspects of loving one another. For sure. And so we are going to continue this conversation on red flags. And I want to revisit at some point this whole no contact thing with family and understanding what does God really expect of me when people are carnal, when they are toxic? And you brought up, you know, praying and fasting and sincerely seeking the heart of God for one another. That's a big deal. Something I don't see enough of in the body of Christ. And then bearing one another's burdens, like recognizing, OK, they're obviously walking through something that has their messed up. How can I be an instrument of healing and love and grace and all the goodness that God has to offer in this situation? But it's going to look like sacrifice and you can't be selfish and remain in there. But it's also a very boundaried perspective. Boundaries help protect you while you're obedient. Exactly. But I think a lot of times weak boundaries or porous boundaries are really disobedient. You're doing stuff because you're trying to get them to change. And it's not because it's what the Holy Spirit told you. He says at the beginning of that whole scripture that started me down this road, let the Holy Spirit guide your life. Well, I'm going to do this for them because, A, I don't want to hear like you're trying to control their behavior. This will keep them from going off. Or I mean, I think we call that codependency. And it's really not rooted in love. It's rooted in selfishness and control. And so we are just about out of time on this episode, but we are definitely going to do a Red Flags Part Two and maybe get a few other people in on this conversation. Absolutely. Because I think it's really time that the Lord wants us to stop walking around always looking for a reason to reject someone and look for where God's at work in their life and in our life and what that's supposed to mean for us. And we'll have better relationships because of it. All right, Nicole, this has been great. Anything you want to say just to kind of corral our thoughts and help us kind of rest from this part of the conversation until we get to the next one? Close the box, so to speak. That's what we say in counseling. So I think it's important to remember that if you have boundaries with your family, if you needed to cut off a relationship for one reason or another, we are not saying open a door that is going to lead down a path to hurt and betrayal. But what we are saying is take a minute to evaluate where you might have done something a little bit too quick or the Holy Spirit wanted to do something greater in you that you cut off because of maybe fear. And all of that looks like is just sitting in solitude with the Lord and just asking him to reveal some of these things to you. That's all that looks like. We are not asking you to jump right back into a relationship. We're just asking you at this point to just sit, sit and listen, sit and ask and be open to receiving what the Holy Spirit has to offer. That is so good. It's the same, right? Let the Holy Spirit lead. So good. Well, this has been a really good conversation. I can't wait to have part two of it and hear more of the insight that you have. I just pray that this podcast blesses you. If you really enjoy what you're listening to, share it with someone else that's going to be blessed by the same. Make sure that you're following us, that you're subscribed to our email list so you can know each time that this podcast release. And I just want you to remember that wisdom wins every time. Talk to you next time. Thanks for joining us today on the Wisdom Workshop. Remember, as Proverbs 24 reminds us, victory comes through wise counsel and strength is found in wisdom. So whatever you're facing this week, seek God's insight, approach it with faith and walk in truth. Until next time, stay grounded, stay growing and never forget, wisdom wins every time. WisdomWorks.com