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Veena and Naila introduce their podcast, Beyond the Card, which focuses on e-commerce growth. They plan to provide e-commerce tips and trends, as well as interviews with D2C founders and experts. Naila shares her background in e-commerce and her journey to becoming an Amazon expert. They discuss the importance of diversification and recommend starting with Shopify before exploring other platforms. They emphasize the need to understand your target audience and tailor your messaging accordingly. They caution against chasing shiny objects and urge brands to focus on one platform and niche. Naila suggests that now is the right time to diversify and recommends Amazon as a valuable channel for D2C brands. She also discusses the minimum budget required for advertising on Amazon and emphasizes the need for investment and cash flow in e-commerce. Hi, I'm Veena. Hey, I'm Naila Shah. Welcome to Beyond the Card, an e-commerce growth podcast. Our goal with this podcast is to deliver every Thursday, as Naila says, chill out Thursdays with e-commerce tips, trends, and one actionable insight that you can implement in your D2C business right away. Every week, we will interview either a D2C founder, or a marketer, or an expert in the D2C space. So, over to Naila now. Hey, everyone. Very nice to meet you, and I'm so excited to be here. This is gonna be a fun and exciting journey. You'll get to know two different sides of the world, Amazon and D2C, and we have been in this space for seven plus years. So, let's just dive in. Fantastic. So, this is our first episode, and Naila is an Amazon expert, and I would want to ask Naila a few questions today, but Naila, before that, why don't you just introduce yourself to our listeners? Yeah, it's a very long journey, but something that I would love to share with you guys. E-commerce was not something in the books for me. I was supposed to be in the tech space, be a CIO, but e-commerce fell into my lap, and I started really loving that, and Amazon became that space where I could just work from my garage, and that really intrigued me, and I started becoming an expert in that field. I worked for an agency. I'm now on my own journey of creating my own agency. Yeah, very long answer to a very complicated question. Amazing, Naila. So, Naila, let's just dive into our first episode, and I have so many questions for you right now. The number one question I want to ask you today is if someone is on Amazon and they want to diversify into other platforms, because we keep getting this question, then how do they start? Where do they start from? What do they really need to do? We are in such a unique position right now where diversification is a must. It's not an option anymore. This is not 20 to Amazon, so it's a very important question that you're asking is how do we diversify and where do we diversify? The basic things that you can do is to go onto your platforms in different platforms. You could start with TikTok, you could start with Netta, you could start with YouTube, but that itself is an area of expertise that I am going to pick your brain on because I'm really excited to get to know how to navigate that journey. But it's not an option for brands anymore to say that I'm an Amazon seller. No, you're a brand with an omnipresence on different channels, and Amazon being one of them and Shopify being the other. Yeah, so if I am an Amazon seller and I need to pick up one channel, which one would you recommend about outside Amazon? Yeah, I would start with the basic one, which is the Shopify. Like start with Shopify and then start understanding what your audience are doing outside. So for example, if you're in baby niche, start thinking about where are they hanging out and start being active in Facebook groups, start understanding where they are, then start catering your messaging on that channel. The biggest mistake I see brands making is that they try to go everywhere where nobody's there. So if you're trying to go to baby niche, you want to make sure that it's in that Facebook group and not on a platform where nobody is actually hanging out. Yeah, this is so true, you know. And which is why we always recommend our audiences doing that audience personas, which is just not equal to someone in Melbourne, 24 years old. It's deeper than that. And to figure out where your audience is hanging out, it's so, so very important. So what's that one thing they can do to know where their audience is hanging out? You have to really understand who you're selling to. I mean, there are different ways of calling this. In the sales world, you call it ICP. And in the Shopify world, in the Amazon world, you call your target audience, but know who you're selling to. I know this concept sounds very simple, but this is where we have to start really focusing on the fact that we are selling to somebody and we are actually being part of their homes and their journey, not selling to ourselves. Because a lot of times we design things for ourselves and not for the brands that we are working with. Really understanding and niching down to who your customer is, what do they do? If I have a kid, he's six years old, so then you think about what a mom would do, not necessarily think about what somebody who's in their 20s and is on a travel journey, that's not your clientele. So just know who you're going after. That's such an important point, because really wearing your persona, shoes is so important. And it's very interesting, you tell me. So we have this client, and they wanted to do some coaching for teenagers, and we were targeting on Facebook. And obviously, Facebook has taken away a lot of targeting for them. And they said, oh, why is my ad not resonating? Why is my ad not working? Why are we not getting any sales and leads through this coaching, this video? And I told them, I'm not your target audience. Your audience is not there. So just don't try and run ads, because everyone else is doing. And that's another thing I wanted to touch base with you about is the next shiny object. As marketers, we are always looking for other platforms, because we read one post on LinkedIn, or one thing, we've got some very fierce competition doing it. What's your take on that? It's such an important question you ask, because I've struggled from that disease, shiny object syndrome. We all do. And it is happening so fast. I come from a tech space, so it becomes even more for me to say that, okay, let me even get into this. And latest jargon is AI. Everybody wants to be an AI. But this is where the brands really fall flat, is if you start diversifying without having the cash flow and deep pockets, you are really in a big trouble. Unless you are the Coca-Colas of the world, do not attempt to go down this path. So pick one platform, pick one niche, and really go after that customer, because they are also waiting for you. They are also waiting to say, when can I get this product? It's just that they can't find you because there are too many of us. Yeah, that's so true as well. So going back to Amazon, when is the right time for someone to diversify? Now, today, or yesterday, because it's a very easy channel. And this is the recommendation that I always have, especially for D2C brands who are established and have tested their products. So you have done the hard work. You have already figured out what do people like and what you don't like. All you have to do is really take that one listing, and don't think of this like, I have to take my entire 50 catalog and put it on Amazon. No, take that one or two, see how it feels like. But if you don't do it, someone else will fill the gap. I live in Canada, and every single person on the street has an Amazon box every day, four times a day. So that means that this is not even US. It is a missed opportunity. If you don't do it, someone else will fill it up, and you don't want that to be taken away from you. The conversion is really high on Amazon, and that's why this is the place to not look back on. So this expansion actually goes both ways. D2C brands who are on Shopify can look at going onto Amazon, and Amazon resellers can go and diversify into Shopify and other channels as well. This gets me to my next question also. Is there a minimum budget they should start with? Because obviously when you're on Amazon, you have a listing there. You need to push it through ads as well. So is there a minimum budget they should start with, or number of products they need to work with? So what's that time point for them? Yeah, depending on where your journey is. If you're a brand new seller and you're making below 50K, that's like your budget is going to be very different. So I'm going to talk about people who are already established in D2C space. We're looking at around 6,000 to 8,000 in ad spend to at least get initial traction. But this can even go out of managed brand, which is like doing 100K to 20K in ad spend every month. It is money pulls money. It's very true in today's generation as well. You have to spend to get the traction, to get the eyeballs, to get in front of the eyeballs. It's just the nature of the beast. So typically if you say, I have a budget of say $2,000 on my ad spend, and does it make sense? Or do I really need to start with something as much as 8,000, 10,000 on Amazon? Yeah, 2,000 is going to get you very, very little traction unless you are in a very specific country, which is like Canada. You're niching down to like, I'm not too sure how the Australian market is, but Canada is quite fairly small. European countries, like small ones, you can try that. But in US, you will be invisible. Like when was the last time you went to second page of Google or Amazon? It's the thing, it's a black hole. Once you make it to the second page, you're invisible. So with 2,000, it's very difficult to make pure, make a brand, you know, be visible. If I'm just like wanting to be in one country, suppose I just wanted to start small with a country like Canada, you know, in Canada, or maybe in Australia. So even then, 2,000 doesn't make sense. Because, you know, we get a lot of inquiries like this. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, it's just, unfortunately, it's a cash-heavy business, right? It is something that you have to invest in the inventory. You have to invest in scaling. As you're scaling, you also have to invest, and that's where a lot of brands struggle with, to say, if I'm growing, I don't need money. No, that dream is not true. You are knee-deep into the business. Yeah, it's an investment by the end of the day. And, you know, like for Facebook ads, we have a certain, or Google ads for that matter, we have a certain testing process where we say, all right, even if you give me $2,000 back, I'll test your creative enough. So how does Amazon work, especially for new brands? Yeah, so it will be very similar. It would be that we are testing very bare minimum. They will be going after long-tail keywords. So for example, and I'm starting to throw some jargon here, but long-tail keywords gets used a lot in this industry. So it is, and I'm going to go back to the baby niche. If it is, you know, you're buying a bottle for a one-month-old is a different target than a, you know, bottle. So you have to go really, really slow. So if you have that low of a budget, be okay with giving up on the time. Be okay with the slow movement. It's one or the other. To expect a growth as if that in two months you'll be 50K in revenue is going to be very difficult. And so it's obviously the traction, and it's a very competitive space as well, especially with Amazon's own products coming in. Obviously, what are some few things someone who's starting off can do to, you know, if I'm expanding from, say, Shopify to Amazon, and what are some of those things that I can do as a business owner to get the initial traction? Fine, you know, I have to spend, but there must be some other criteria as well. Yeah, so start with one SKU. That's already, you have already tested that on the Shopify front. So you already know that this product works. People like it. You have tested everything with the refund and what have you. So you take that and understand what are the logistics that's going to go behind that. How much are you going to be able to spare on the Amazon side of things? Once you understand that, you already have an upper hand as a D2C because you have creatives. This is one key thing that a seller who is starting a business from garage doesn't have access to creative. Creatives take a lot more thinking and money and all of that stuff. So you already have an upper hand. Just use what you have with the inventory you have and list the product. So it's a fairly straightforward for someone who has been around in the business world than someone who's starting from ground up because you don't have that backing. We consume what we see. This is just the new era. And so this is a big thing that people have to pay attention to to say, if I'm going to take a picture with my phone and just throw it out there and hope that it will work, that's not how it's going to work. And I know you and I are going to, I'm curious to dive into that segment with you, but going back to your question, if you are D2C, the number one thing that you should be looking at, start small, test your logistics, understand the ad spend, understand what the market is saying on Amazon because they are ready to buy. They're not shopping. They go in and they want to purchase. Those key things and back that up with your creatives and reviews, and you're good to go. The market will tell you in a couple of months. So, you know, typically, Nada, when we are running, especially right now, you know, with mega ads, the performance across the board has been pretty poor, pretty average, I would say, for most D2C brands. How does that performance work for Amazon? So the performance is really based on how many, what the niche is. So I gave an example of the baby category, but I was also dealing with one brand that was in firearms. So you can imagine the clientele, the two different clientele, and I'm from Canada. I don't see firearms here. So this is a completely different segment for me. So really understanding what that segment wants to do and why are they buying what they are buying? You cannot sell firearms, but what are they thinking about? How do I store it? What do I do with this? Understanding the verticals and horizontals are very, very critical for the performance of that particular product. Can you do a multi-pack? Can you do, so all these data points are going to become your best friends in really succeeding. If you're not into that stuff, find somebody who can really understand this for you because marketing now is more analytical than it used to be. Yeah, I know because data plays such an important role, especially now that we are with AI coming in. So how do you think AI has impacted Amazon? Very much so. It's the latest one which is happening in the industry as of today is called something called Rufus. Rufus is an equal to, you can call it the AI of Amazon. So what they're trying to do is it's trying to become like a conversation like you and I talking and the products are going to be recommended. So the advertising is changing and shifting to say that it's no longer keyword specific. I'm going to keep it in a way that it seems like a conversation because we as humans, we love storytelling. We love conversations. We like that. And that's what the technology is evolving to interact with the human. And that's where the change is happening. The customer reviews now it comes up all the way at the top to say, these are the things the reviews are saying. I don't have to hunt it down to see who is liking the product and who is not. So that's so much true about AI and everyone and customer reviews, which again, so how important are customer reviews for Amazon, like, you know, for Facebook, for TikTok, for Google, really so much emphasis. We are like really, really persistent about putting it up there. What is the role that customer reviews play in Amazon listings or in Amazon ads? It's the whole listing depends on that. If you have a really good creative, but a really bad reviews, the likelihood of you converting is going to be very low. It's a credibility system that you are gaining for it. The way people consume information is because it's based on price. So now if you don't have a product that is different than the other, which is a topic for another day, but then that's a problem because everything looks the same. Then what happens? There are only two qualifiers. One is the pricing, second is the reviews. So if you have a product that people are not necessarily liking it, it's not one or two, it's repeated. And I shop exactly the same way to say, I don't, I lost the trust. I don't care who it is from. I don't want this. So reviews play a very, very critical role. And what brands think that me just updating a listing is going to update the review. The problem or the devil is in the details, right? So is it the product that is actually an issue that needs to be looked at and needs to be really understood because no amount of marketing, no amount of sales can fix that. So that's a production issue because we're dealing with actual products. So yeah, long-winded answer to your question, reviews are extremely critical in this whole journey for existing and new clients. And how can a new reseller get reviews quickly on Amazon? There are a couple of programs within Amazon which are actually not a black hat tactic. This is something, this is advertised by Amazon called Vine Reviews, and it's a self-serving machine. So you have to pay X number of dollars, but it is coming through that program where you can get the product out for free. It's no different than giving out to an influencer, but it is a system that's been created by Amazon. So you give away 30, 50, whatever number you're comfortable with, and then that becomes a review system for you. The other way is also, which is a strategy that I often use is to lower the price and increase the sale and then ask for reviews and see how that goes. This is going to take some time. It's not a magic type of, you know, one day it's going to be filled with reviews. So Vine is a really good way to go about doing this. Okay, so Lara, one last thing. What is that one actionable tip you would want to give our listeners who want to get started onto Amazon, whether they are diversifying from another market or from diversifying to another market or from say Shopify to Amazon? Don't wait, just go in and update the listing. It won't cost you much, it's worth it. Especially if you're a D2C brand that's doing 50K and above, just create one listing and see how that goes. Thank you so much, Laila. And it's so nice, you know, that we're getting to get to know so much about Amazon. And I mean, my knowledge is also quite basic as far as Amazon is concerned. So... It's a pleasure, thank you. Yeah. We have to also like now give our, you know, that you can contact our agencies kind of thing. Okay. So should we record that separately and then patch it? Yeah, maybe. Maybe we record that separately. Yeah, let's do the intros and the endings that you can contact us separately. Yeah. And stop your spend. So don't close your browser because... Yeah.
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