On The Record: Zakk Wylde on Pantera & his Ozzy audition

The speaker discusses various topics including the use of plugins and fractals in music, their love for rotary phones, upcoming tours and festivals, the Pantera celebration, paying tribute to Dime and Vinny, working out and staying fit, and writing new music for Black Label. They express excitement for the future and the creative process of making music. My thing is because there's so much stuff going on with the, you know, with plugins and fractals and, and, you know, that kind of thing that so many people don't even want to use cat lug around heads anymore cabinets, you know what I mean? So, you know, business wise, me sinking all this money into rotary phones. I mean, I still love them. We're shaking everybody's back while they're hanging out with Father Johnson on ultimate guitar.com. Wanted to check in with you. Looks like you got a busy year, got some tours scheduled. You got a festival this, this fall. So what do you got going on in 2024? Well, I just made my bed. I just did the dishes. So, uh, life is good, man. I'm having coffee and I'm talking with you, buddy. So, uh, no, it's just lots going on, man. You know, I guess we've been, I mean, the Pantera celebration, I mean, that's over a year now. I remember when we left for New Orleans for rehearsals. I mean, I can't believe that's already over a year. So, I mean, obviously we've got the Berserkers coming up, setting that whole thing up and then writing for the next black label album, doing everything like that. There's just always something going on. So, I mean, which is awesome. I mean, it's just, it's kind of funny because during the COVID lockdown, you know, that was two years of nothing going on. Probably since I joined, started rolling with the Boss with Ozzy back in 87. And like even before that, I mean, you know, between the band I was in, Zyrus, and I mean, you know, since there's always something going on. But I mean, that two year period, I remember everybody was like, man, you must miss the road or you must miss doing gigs or whatever. And I was like, no, I'm actually kind of digging this. I get to walk the dogs every day and just, there's no deadlines. You know what I mean? But I mean, I wouldn't change it. I mean, I'm blessed that I get to do what I do. And I guess, you know, that's the reason why you have posters of Jimmy Page and Randy Rhodes and Ozzy and all my guys up on the wall. When you're a kid, it's just because that's what you want to do with your life. And I've had the pleasure of seeing you a couple times paying tribute to Dime with the guys in Pantera. Is that something that's going to keep rolling on? There was talk of possibly some new music with you guys, maybe not under the Pantera band. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I mean, obviously, it's always up to Phil and Rex. I mean, we're allied forces over here. So it's just whatever the fellas want to do, you know, if they're just like, you know, I think it's a beautiful thing. Because I mean, it's just you're paying tribute to Dime and Vinny and, you know, to Phil and Rex with this living, breathing cultural thing that they created. You know, it's just a beautiful thing. I mean, it just brings so many people together. And, you know, for all the, you know, for all the Pantera faithful, it's a chance for them to take a trip down memory lane, which is, you know, remembering when the first time they saw the fellas. And then, you know, for all, Phil asks every night, how many people is the first time ever seeing Pantera? And it just, it really, it's a beautiful thing that so many new kids are, that's just a testament to the awesome music that the fellas created. So, you know, I say it every night, like, you know, when we were at the Garden, Dime and Vinny were on the side of the stage. It's just like, fellas, look at what you created. So I know when I got to see Pantera, I had never seen him with Dime and Vinny. And it was so cool getting to hear that music live for the first time. Are there some songs that when you're up there playing, they hit you a little bit harder, knowing that you're paying tribute to Dime and Vinny? Well, obviously, you know, since we added Floods and everything like that, you know, just a tribute piece, especially at the end of the song. Yeah, like, you know, I got to stay focused on that one from breaking that, you know, just getting too emotional. But, you know, I feel them all the time. You know what I mean? So, like, even when we were getting ready to do the thing, rehearsals, and they were just figuring out how we were going to do this. There'd be signs all over the place, you know, whether on a license plate that would be like 333, or I'd run into like a Dimebag license plate in the middle of nowhere. You know what I mean? It was just like him just pushing this thing along, willing it to happen. Yeah, so he's just always around. You know, I think when we were in New York, you know, just like signs, like when we just hit the garden, it was like my wife, Barbara, was like, check this out. And it was just like, something came up and it just reminded us of a dime. I was like, wow, that's crazy. And it was just, you know, or you would look on our phone, and it'd be 333. You know, just like, wow, it's just like, just these signs everywhere. I could see Todd just doing it, going, I hope these idiots realize it's me sending these signs. He'd be the one to do it, too. So you got Berserkist Fest. It's a smooshing of berserker and circus, maybe. What a cool lineup. Like, I've heard some people like, why is Cody Jenks co-headlining this thing, which is like a mostly metal rock band? Why not? He kicks ass. That's what we just said. You know, aside of, you know, Father Cody, it's just, I mean, pretty much everybody that's on the bill, I've known everyone for years. So, and they all kick ass. And it's just, it's just a great excuse to get together and put a party together and have your friends come down to it. So, yeah, I mean, that's the reason why we put it together. And then there's going to be a whole bunch of shenanigans going on as well. So, I mean, you know, aside of the bands playing and, you know, all my buddies just throwing down, it's just like all the comedic, you know, the Festivus, Betty Crocker, Taste Devastation, Demolition Fest events that are going to be going on. You know, so it's just going to be just an all-around good time. Yeah, I saw there's a strongman competition. I'm not joining. Are you going to be in the strongman competition? Well, you got the strongman competition. Well, I don't want to pull a fallopian tube or, you know, strain my labia before we have to do the show. So, I might have to sit the first one out and then see how it pans out for the next time we do it. But we got like the slap fighting competitions. We're going to have thumb wrestling, arm wrestling. I mean, trying to get synchronized swimming going on in there as well. I mean, you know, swap meet, food trucks, coffee, beer tasting, you know, everything like that. So, it's just going to be, you know, there's going to be a lot of shenanigans going on. But on a serious note, like I know you work out when you're on the road quite a bit. You're looking great, by the way. You know, my wife, you know, she runs a hard bargain over here. I'm one of her escort boys. So, you know, I don't – I'm known right now as Wednesday. So, you know, I'm trying – I'm moving up the ladder. So, I'm trying to get that weekend slot. But, you know, she runs a tight ship around here. And, you know, I got to stay on my toes. But, you know, I mean, I've always worked out and everything like that ever since I was a kid. I mean, obviously, before the Aussie gig and everything like that. But, you know, back in the day, I'd be going into the – I'd go to a gym with a 12-pack with me. You know what I mean? So, you know, because I'd have to carve up before we got in there. But so now it's just, you know, more of the old before us and Baja with Java. But, yeah, a lot of steak and a lot of eggs and stuff like that, bro. So, for us guitar players that do like to work out and lift, are there – is there kind of a tradeoff between finger dexterity and working out a lot? You know, you're kind of putting your hands at risk sometimes when you're working out. I mean, when you're putting your hands at risk is when you're punching walls and being – doing dopey stuff like that. But, no, I've never had any – I mean, for me, a lot of it's mental too. I think for a lot of people, you know, because I just love lifting by myself. I don't need anybody yelling at me or anything like that, you know, to get – to squeeze out another rep or two. I mean, I can do that on my own. But, no, for me, it's just – it's more of a mental thing. You know what I mean? It's just – it's really therapeutic, you know. I think for most people, I think if you ask them when they lift, it just – it's one of the best – you know, you go into a gym for an hour. It's just a – it's an hour of therapy, man, you know, for me. Anyway, because it's just you and the iron and you can just get away from everything, you know, so it's great. So you mentioned you're writing some new Black Label stuff. Where are you at with that? Do you have a release date in mind you're trying to meet or – No, no, no. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, it's just – I mean, the way I approach pretty much every record or even down with Oz, you know, like whether it was No Rest for the Wicked and then we're doing – now we're doing No More Tears. We're going to do – to me, I always looked at it like kind of like with sports. I mean, it's – whether we just won the Super Bowl, we won a World Series or we got – you know, we lost in the playoffs or in the championship round or, you know, we didn't make the playoffs, we were that close or whether you had a 500 season or it was a terrible season. I mean, it's just the next season you go in with the – you know, it's exciting because you're just going in with – and it's brand new and everything's fresh, you know, whether we won a championship or we had the worst season we ever had. So it's just always exciting. I always look at it – when you're making records, it's the same kind of thing because you don't know what you're going to get, you know, so – or what you might write tomorrow or, you know, today or whatever, you know. So it's just like – that's the excitement, I think, for every musician. It's just – you know, you might just start jamming on something. I'm like, oh, wow, what's that? And you're like, oh, I just started noodling on it this morning, you know. Let's say if it was Into the Void or something, you know, like if you were writing something like that, I would just say, wow, what's that? Got to put that on the record, you know, like, oh, I was just jamming on it this morning. I was like, I'm working that out. I said, we should record that one, you know what I mean? So that's the beauty of writing. So, you know, every day I just go and I have my little amp set up out in the Doom Crew Ink Iron Den out there. So I just sit down with a couple of old forks and I just start jamming riffs, you know what I mean, whether you get inspired. You could be listening to Sabbath or Zeppelin riff or something and just, you know, sit down and start writing. And next thing you know, you got a whole nother new song, you know what I mean? So we got a whole bunch. It's always crazy because we end up writing when we're in the Vatican, it's just like we'll track, you know, so many songs. Obviously you want to get down to the nitty gritty of at least 10 that you're solid ones that you want to put on there and then take it from there, you know, and then usually it's always the music is first and then I'll usually either sit in the truck and I'll just, you know, crank it and listen to it and sing a melody on it. You know, so, you know, once I get something I want to sing about, then I'll start putting it together. So you mentioned Zeppelin and Sabbath. Is it still that old stuff that you grew up loving that inspires you today or are there some younger artists or newer bands that you see? I think if you ask everybody, I think, you know, whether like with my father, you know, he loves Sinatra and everything like that. So I think you never, I don't think you really ever outgrow all the stuff you loved as a teenager and the music that moved you. You know, like when I hear Diary of a Madman, it just brings me back to such a magical time in my life when, you know, I first started getting serious about guitar and music and then hearing Over the Mountain and, you know, You Can't Kill Rock and Roll and everything on that album. It's just, that's the power and the beauty of music. So then all my Sabbath records have the same thing with Zeppelin and everything like that. When I hear Robin Trower, Frank Marino, you know, the live album and everything, it's just like, wow, it just transports you right back to how beautiful music is and just how magical and how powerful it is. So, no, I don't think you really ever outgrow it. But I mean, I still listen to those records and I still get just inspired today as I did when I was 15 years old. Are there any new guitar players that you're really digging? I mean, the guys that I'm friends with, I mean, you know, Jared James Nichols. Jared's awesome. I mean, Ritchie Faulkner. Ritchie's amazing as well. Tyler Bryant, you know, we had those guys out on the road. And then between Tyler and their younger cats and Tyler's wife, you know, she's an amazing musician as well. So, and her sister. So, but it's just, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, and obviously, I mean, he's not new, but I mean, like Tosin Abassi and everything like that, you know, we're all buddies with and everything like that. But Tosin's, like, ridiculously silly. And then you have, there's so many, I mean, it's really inspiring because it's just like, when you go on Instagram or whatever, and you just see all these younger guys that have, it's not that they have a grasp on technique. They're great players. You know what I mean? They're speaking. So, and that's inspiring for younger kids. I mean, you know, just guitar in general. It's an awesome thing. Yeah, there's a lot of upcoming YouTube guitar players. I feel like that's almost a new genre, like YouTube guitar players. Yeah, and I mean, that's great because I think it gives you exposure, which is what you need, you know, whether Eddie Van Halen would have had Instagram back in the day, you know, it would have been great seeing him. He's playing Eruption and Spanish Fly and all this stuff. And so you could find out about him. You could be in England and find out about this kid crushing it in California. And then, you know, and then Ed's out playing at Cazares and playing at all these clubs and building a fan base. So, you know, before they even have a record deal, you know what I mean, which is basically what Van Halen did do, you know what I mean? So it's a great platform because back in the day, if you didn't have a record deal by the time you were 30, the dream is over, man. You know, like you got to sell all your gear and get a normal crappy job that you can't stand and give up. Today, you can build your band like a mom and pop shop and be your own boss and dictate your life, which I think is awesome. It's the best, you know what I mean? Because this way you're not at the mercy of somebody else. You know, you don't have to worry about getting a label or getting a band. I mean, if you can, great. But I mean, it's just like you should be your own boss. So you got some new pedals coming out. Are these kind of an update on some of the pedals that you had already with Dunlap or have they been updated? Yeah, I mean, totally. With Jimmy, I mean, I've used those pedals forever. And I mean, they're just great. It just, they work, you know what I mean? Like my distortion pedal, it doesn't change the tone of your amp. I mean, what it'll do is just like you have a great sounding amp, it'll just give you more of what you already have. Back when I was using my Marshall JC Main 100s and now I'm using my Wild Audio, you know, my Master 100s. It's just, you have a great sounding amp, you just want more sustain, you know, for the solos, whatever, you know, for rhythms or whatever. But I mean, and if you don't want it, you want it clean, just turn the pedal off as far as the distortion pedal goes. And then the chorus pedals are just great. They give you that warm, shimmery, shiny, beautiful chorus that I love. And then, you know, and then obviously the phase is just awesome as well. So then we're getting ready to launch the Rotor Vibe again, which is a great pedal. So, you know, it gives you the Leslie type, you know, Robin Trower, Hendrix-y, you know, Leslie effect, you know. So you got that. And then also, and obviously my Wah, which, you know, it's a great sounding Wah, just the spectrum of the tone on it. So, yeah, you know, me and Jim just talked about doing it again, and now we're going to be launching strings again and everything like that. So it's all good, man. Yeah. All right. Is your amp going to be turned into a production model anytime soon? Is that going to be available to the public? My thing is because there's so much stuff going on with the, you know, with plugins and fractals and, you know, that kind of thing that so many people don't even want to use lug around heads anymore, cabinets, you know what I mean? So, you know, business wise, you know, me sinking all this money into rotary phones, you know what I mean? Are people going to, I mean, I still love them, but you know what I mean? Kind of like, as far as a business venture, that's the whole thing. And that's trying to figure out, make sure that the price is, it's affordable, you know what I mean? It's a once in a lifetime kind of purchase, you know what I mean? You know, so, I mean, you get a stack. You buy two stacks, you're pretty much set for life. You could be doing Madison Square Garden with that thing and you could be crushing people at the local pub. Have you been using plugins or fractals or anything on any of your records? No, I've never, I've never, like, needed it. You know what I mean? So, I mean, the things that I've heard, I mean, they sound great. You know what I mean? It's just because, yeah, because you're profiling and you're sampling basically out of a real train wreck or a dumbbell or a Marshall or a Salvano or a top hat or, you know, all these amazing amps I just mentioned, you know what I mean? So, or a Fender Twin Reverb or a Bassman or whatever, you know what I mean? So, I mean, because we're all guitar nerds and we love equipment and gear. So, because that's what makes it fun. It's like stamp and coin collecting, you know what I mean? Or toy collecting, you know, vintage Migos or whatever, you know, Spider-Man, stuff like that. But no, but I've never really needed to use it because I just always, I'm always using two amps, you know what I mean? I've always used my Marshalls, I-800s or the JMPs, the massive volumes or my wild audio heads, you know? So, I haven't had an interest in wanting to try, but I have friends that use them and they love them, man. And like you said, it's all down to the preference and player. I mean, I've always tell everybody, there's no such thing as best. I mean, because that comes from Father Steve Vai. Steve goes, Zach, there is no such thing as best. It's like, what's your best, best Led Zeppelin record? We're not talking about album sales. We're like, what's your, what's your favorite? You know what I mean? I love them all. But, you know, what's your favorite Randy Rhoads solo? They're all amazing, you know what I mean? But like, all right, well, what's your current favorite? You know what I mean? So, you know, it's just like eeny, meeny, miny, moe. I can spin you around, you can pick any one of them, you know what I mean? They're all good. They're all winners. So, just what's your favorite and what's your preference for that day? So, I heard something on, there was something on YouTube. It was your audition tape for Ozzy, supposedly. And I gave it a listen and I was really impressed. There's some really cool classical stuff on there. Like, it seems like you really did your homework making that audition tape. How long did that tape take to make and how much thought did you put to what you were going to put on there? Well, I mean, as far as all the classical stuff, obviously, that's because of St. Rhodes, you know what I mean? Obviously, Randy playing classical got, you know, so it's just like, oh, well, that's the hardest thing you can do is learn classical guitar. So, it's like, oh, I got to learn how to play classical, you know? So, no, but back then, I mean, I was playing classical guitar a lot, you know? So, and I mean, all those pieces that are on that thing I wrote, you know? So, and, you know, that and then obviously me playing Mr. Crowley and some other things like that, you know, for, so obviously, that's the band I'm auditioning for, you know, is Ozzy. So, but I don't know. I think my buddy had a Fostex and we recorded it on that. So, I had my buddy record me on that thing and that was it. And then we had a cassette. So, I sent it to my buddy Dave Feld, who I still talk with, and Mark Weiss. And they ended up getting it to Oz, you know, gave it to mom, to Mrs. O. And Sharon had it. But Ozzy always told me, he said the funny story, my sister took a picture of Polaroid of me on the front porch at my parents' house. And Ozzy said he just remembered, because when he saw me, when I auditioned, he goes, have I met, have I seen you before somewhere? And he goes, and Ozzy looked back at him, he goes, I remember it now because your picture was the only one I looked at, you know, of the audition tapes. And I was just like, oh, look at this kid. He must really love Randy Rhoads, which I do. So, who doesn't? Everybody else. So, no, I don't know. However long it took me. Yeah, because I probably, I probably played all that stuff in one take. And then that was it. I got a nerdy technique question for all the kids out there. What's the key to having good vibrato? I don't know. I mean, I think with everybody, the beautiful thing about vibrato, whether you listen to Angus Young and Paul Crossoff, they have very kind of similar vibratoes. And then you listen to John Sykes is very wide. And like we're up on stage between Yngwie, I mean, his vibrato is flawless and his pitch and everything like that. Yngwie, Tosin, Nuno and Father Steve, they could do just vibrato and they don't even have to play shredding licks. Just the vibrato alone, you know who everybody is. Between King Edward, you know, St. Rhodes, you know, all the guys. It's just Jimi Hendrix, Robin Trower, Frank Marino, like all the guys I just mentioned. Their vibrato is your calling card. I don't know. I never, I mean, you can teach somebody the technique of how, you know, how to bend a string. But I think the rest of it's going to fall on kids. Kids just say, you know, like, learn how to play blues licks or, you know, play Red House or whatever, you know, because it's not so much that you have to learn how to play blues or rock or anything like that. It's just, I mean, it's just a matter of practicing, you know, and I think from looking at anyone that's a beginner to as they're playing matures, it's just a matter of repetition and doing it over and over and over. And obviously emulating your favorite players, whether it's David Gilmour or Angus Young or Tony Iommi or Jimmy Page or any of the guys you love, any of the players that move you. I think no matter what, at the end of the day, regardless, you're going to have your own sound, which is a beautiful thing, you know, because that's what, at the end of the day, that's what you want to achieve. So, you know, emulate all your favorite players. I mean, I still do it when I'm learning Dime stuff. I got to, you know, learn all Dime's licks. So we always like to ask, you know, some advice to the kid who just picked up a guitar, starting their music career. You have a unique perspective in that you worked with one of the best in the biz, Sharon Osborne, one of the best business minds in the business. What did you learn from Sharon as far as business goes, as far as navigating the music business? Well, I mean, I think like, like, even right now, I mean, obviously, with Sharon, you know, I love when we referred to his mom. She's been like my mother since I've been 19 years old. So my wife, Barbara, and my girlfriend back at the time, you know, when we were kids, whenever we had any business things we had to do, obviously, we'd always reach out to mom and ask her advice on things and everything like that. But what it really comes down to, when you really think about it, you know, with Jimmy Page, when he had Peter Grant managing him, people could say, well, what does Peter Grant know about managing people? You know, he's a bodyguard and, you know, he's a driver. You know what I mean? It's just like, lookit, whether I'm managing you and your band is getting ready to go up on stage and you're going to play for $100, if I don't get that money, we're not playing. You know, I mean, and it's just like, well, what does Zach know about managing anybody? He just played with Ozzy Osbourne. I mean, what does he, you know, he's not a manager. I go, no, I'm not, I'm not a manager, but I was born at night, but I wasn't born at last night. You know what I mean? It's like, if I don't get the money, you got $80 here. Justin and the guys are going to play for $100. We agreed upon that. You're shy $20. You know, it's just like running any business. I mean, the whole thing is that we owned a bar, and each one of the beers is $1, and we sold 100 beers. How come there's only $80 in the till? Somebody's stealing money. You know what I mean? So I think it really is, it's just, it's that basic. And you know, like, people are always going to try and scam you and be shysters or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, there's a reason why David Lee Roth put, you know, the brown M&Ms on the thing. He goes, put that on there. It's like, why? You don't like the brown M&Ms? He's like, no, I love all M&Ms. But just put that on there because now I'll know if they read it or not. And they'll do, like, shyster things. Like, I mean, this happens to every band, to all of us. Like, you know, if you put down the deli tray, like, they won't put it on there. So, and the deli tray costs $20. It's like, Justin, don't get the deli tray. We'll pocket the $20. If they ask for it, we'll just say we forgot. And then we'll get it. And I mean, you were just skimming money off the top all the time. We're taking $20 from this band, the next band, every band that comes into our club. You know, if they ask for, oh, we're sorry, we forgot. We're like, yeah, okay. Yeah, you forgot, all right. Go get the deli tray or give me the $20. You can't blame them. You know, it's the hustle, man. So, that's business. And if we allow them to, that's why you could say whatever, anybody could say whatever they want about Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley. You know, Uncle Gene and this and that, oh, Gene Simmons with the band. He's like, no, I refuse to be, if I get ripped off, it's nobody's fault but my own. Because I'm an idiot. And I allowed it to happen. It falls on you. You know what I mean? And not only that, though, you should want to know what's going on. You know, aside of practicing and playing and writing and being a musician, I get it. You're like, I don't want to be bothered with the business. It's just like, yeah, but it is your business. And you should be on it. No matter how careful you are, you're still going to get scammed. There'll still be business deals. And that's all part of learning. Learn the business, for sure. Well, I appreciate you dealing with all the nonsense and bullshit and shystery that you've had to deal with over the years to bring us such great music. Yeah, without a doubt. You care about your music. You care about the production on the records and the artwork and everything like that. Then you should be up on the whole thing, man. You know, just like if you own the coffee shop, you own the mom and pop shop. Now, we want to make sure the kitchen's clean, the food's fresh, so nobody's getting sick, the coffee's hot. You know what I mean? We've got the cold brew or whatever, but everything's on the up and up. Just run it like a business. I mean, it's your band, and it is a business. You know what I mean? That's what you want to do for the rest of your life. You want to play music. And so on your journey to Madison Square Garden or Dodger Stadium, wherever it is, it's just like when you're starting out, the joy's in the journey, and you should enjoy it. All right, man. Thank you so much. All right, Father Justin. It was great talking to you, and you take care of yourself, my brother.