Sapientia S1E3 Crystal Kean - Learn as You Grow; Homeschooling, Family, Road Trips

The speaker discusses their childhood in Alberta, initially wanting to leave but later appreciating the values instilled in them. They grew up in a small town with the same friends and enjoyed the simplicity of life. They also talk about moving frequently before settling down. After high school, they ventured away from home to explore the world, particularly seeking warm destinations. They value constantly learning from new people and environments. The speaker shares stories from family road trips, both good and bad experiences. They do not have a favorite state or country, but enjoy the sense of community and family in southern destinations. They briefly mention visiting Alcatraz and their disappointment with the current state of California. Education was not initially their focus, but they eventually pursued degrees in political sciences, psychology, and anthropology. They were encouraged by a mentor to pursue an education degree, despite their initial disinterest. School had been a Hello, Crystal. Thanks for joining me today. Hello. Glad to have a chat with you. It's been a while since we've had an opportunity to catch up. I would like to start in the beginning, if that's all right. Back in the beginning. Tell me about growing up in Alberta. Mmm. You know, those were the glory days in Alberta. Really? Yeah, everything was good. Land of milk and honey and such. Right. Yeah. At the time, I really wanted to leave, right? Because every teenager wants to leave the wide-open wheat fields and head for something more amazing that they think is there. But actually, I'm really grateful. I'm really grateful for growing up there. It was a really wholesome sort of time. And a lot of the values that I carry with me still were really instilled in me then. And at the time, I didn't appreciate that. Right. We never do, right? Yeah. As a grown adult and navigating the chaos that the world is now, I'm really grateful for those opportunities that I had then. So what was childhood? Were you on a farm? Were you in rural, I mean urban? Well, I mean, I grew up in what now is urban, but at the time would have been considered rural. And, you know, expansion has sort of taken it over. But, yeah, just what was childhood like? Bushfires and big trucks? Of course. And Alberta. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, there was everything you consider. It's a small town. You grow up there. You go to church there. You have the same friends all through growing up. And, you know, like I said, at the time, I thought, oh, God, this is so mundane, and I don't want this to be my life. But now I'm like, well, that sounds kind of nice. Yeah, now you see the value in the simplicity, right? Exactly. Exactly. Now, growing up, you had a lot of the same friends. I guess you didn't move too often then. When I was young, we moved several times, so I had to make a lot of new friends all the time. Yeah, you were a move-around kind of guy. Yeah, I still am fairly nomadic, actually. I was going to say, that translated into your adult life. Yeah, it hasn't really stopped. But, yeah, it's one thing that there was a significant chunk of time from grade four, I think, through to the end of high school, I was a lot of the same friends. But before that, it was kind of, especially those earliest years, a lot of moving and bouncing until we sort of settled into one area. So you were there for pretty much all those early years? Yeah, yeah, pretty much. But, you know, and that was a great upbringing. That was a good way to grow up. But I can't say that I really kept any of those friends. Right. Yeah, like into my adulthood. I think maybe one or two. Then you kind of outgrow. I mean, people move, people travel, people leave. Of course, yeah. We were before the age of such interconnectedness, right? Right. So when you left, you left. There was some letters. And then Facebook, of course. Everybody tried to find each other on there after. Yeah, the early days when everybody was excited and reconnecting. It was quite an interesting way that Facebook reconnected so many people from across generations, really. Yeah. To sort of keep tabs on people suddenly. Late night stalking your friend of your friend's neighbor's cousin. That's right. When did you first venture away from home? Right after high school, yeah. As soon as I could leave, right? It was just like as soon as that light turned green, I was out of there. Was it for education or just to get the heck away? No, I just wanted to go. I just wanted to be in the big world, right? Where did you go? We did some traveling. First we did the Canada stuff and then we traveled some southern stuff. You do Mexico. You do all those things that are warm and toasty, especially if you grow up on the prairies. Yeah. You just want to be anywhere that's not snow and wind. Right. So we did that kind of stuff. I think it's super valuable. We did end up coming back there. You do some travel and then you think, oh, you go back to what you know. So I did go back there for a bit after. Start my family there. Right. Yeah. And then we were like, oh, that's actually really not what I want. I don't want this. But it was not a bad thing. It was not like I went back and was like, oh, this is terrible. It was just I think I've outgrown the space and these people. So the road trip thing, has that been pretty consistent? Like family road trips? Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. It does bother me to stay in one place for a really long time. It makes me feel pretty stifled, pretty suffocated. And also, I don't think that's how the world works. I don't think it's insular like that. Right. So having the opportunity to constantly be learning new things from new people in new environments, you know, incredible. Is there a particular memory that sticks out from the earlier family trips? Oh, God. When the kids were small. Oh, man. There's just so many. There's quite a few. There's so many. Oh, I can't even. We were just talking about this the other day, actually, at home here. But there's so many amazing things that happened along the way and so many terrible things, right? It goes wrong. It goes wrong in so many ways. But, yeah, like we've had so many things happen. We've had our things stolen. We've stumbled on dead bodies. Oh, me too. It's just, yeah, but so many beautiful things where people help you and you make friends. It's surprising how people are just people wherever you go. Yeah, yeah, and I think if your intentions are good, then people intend to be good to you. Is there a particular state or country that you prefer or love or can't wait to get back to? People ask me that a lot. But, actually, I don't know if I could nail down a favorite because I think they have such different attributes and such different opportunities. You know, I'm a fan of warm weather, so I do like the southern destinations myself. I also really enjoy the sense of community and family that you'll get in those spaces. Like, you know, when you're in Mexico or you're going down south a little farther in South America, there's a really strong sense of family in a lot of those places. So I really, really enjoyed that. But, I mean, we traveled through America a whole bunch, too, and there are some really fun, amazing, beautiful things there, too. Is the West Coast more of a preference? You know, I don't want to say it's a preference. I think that's just geographical, right, because we are on the West Coast in Canada here. And so that quick drive down the – proximity? Yeah, you head down that 101. It's beautiful. And you can hit up a whole bunch of, like, those little beach towns. And then if you're craving more urban stuff, you know, just go a little more into the bigger cities. Hit up L.A., San Francisco, those kinds of things. Go see Alcatraz. Okay. Well, we could unpack that a little. What was Alcatraz like? I've never been, so. Yeah, it was really neat. That was one of my kids that was on their bucket list to go, so I actually wouldn't have gone there. It wouldn't have been on something I would have chosen. I don't generally like to do those really touristy things when we're traveling. I find there's not a lot of value in them usually, and they're really expensive. Right. Right, and as a single parent traveling with kids, your budget is tight. Yeah. But he wanted to go, and so we booked that and we went. And it was actually really interesting. It was really educational. They turned it into a museum, so. Yeah. They have these interactive tours you can do, and I liked it a lot more than I thought I would like it. So you learn something new every day. And that was a while ago now, probably. Yeah, that was probably, I guess it was like eight years ago. Have you been back to California since, or? No, it's kind of. It's been kind of weird, yeah. It's gotten a little weird. Especially. Oh, man. No kidding. Yeah, I was actually really sad, really sad to see that turn of events there. I mean, it was always on that sort of leftist spectrum, right? Yeah. But it went bonkers the last few years, and I don't think it's somewhere I'd really love to hang out anymore. Yeah, it seems some weird, I don't want to say agenda, but what else could you call it? Something's going on to recreate that state. And they just have this mass exodus, right? Like everyone is just like, we've got to get out of here. Yeah, Texas. Texas, everyone going to Texas. Yeah, well, beyond strange. It's been fucked up. Yeah, for sure. Oh, God. Oh, man. When did you get into education? Was that kind of your first and primary thing you wanted to get into? It sure was not. No? Nope. It wasn't even on my radar, actually. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, so after I had traveled around a little bit, then we'd come back and settle down, and I started looking at my options for higher education, sort of because they tell you you need to plan your whole life, and I was still in that paradigm a little bit, right? Right. So I was like, yeah, I've got to bear down here. I've got to get a good career. Like you know what you want in your 20s, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay, sure. So I go and I'm a big fan of research, a big fan of sciences. So I initially went into some political sciences and did some psychology. So I got those degrees, and then I did a little anthropology, and then actually I had sort of a mentor at my university who came to me and said, hey, so you're really close to getting this education degree. Like you're just a few courses off, and maybe you should just get it. And I was like, no, thank you, sir. That is not something I want to do. And he must have saw something in me at the time, right? Like you don't see it. And he said, no, no, I think you should just – you don't have to do that as a job, but like just get it. Like you're so close. And I just had no interest in that. School had been something for me that was really boring and horribly psychologically damaging, I think, for me. This wasn't a place I felt safe or good ever. So, yeah, so anyway, I did that. I got the education one, and I said, I'll never use this. But it was interesting to learn about how it all worked and how our country saw education. What did you win into? Well, I had a bunch of babies, right? So I didn't seriously look at career or work for a long time. I was just raising babies and that kind of stuff. And it wasn't until my first child was sort of school-aged that I started looking into the options for him, right? And at the time, we lived in the town I grew up in, in this cute little two-story on a cute street that I could walk my kids to school from. And the local school was literally a block down the road. So I thought, we'll try that. That's what everyone else is doing. Clearly, that's what people do. And so I took him there for his kindergarten, his little five-year-old self. I walked him down there. And there was nothing wrong with that school. The teacher was lovely. She was sweet. She was warm. And the building, there's nothing wrong with it. But there was nothing about that that made me go, this is good. This feels good. Right. Right. And then I just thought, I don't know. Something feels weird about this. I don't really like this. He's so little. Why am I just leaving him there? And I had a really, really sensitive, shy five-year-old. So some days were okay, and some days were a lot of tears. And I thought to myself, why? Like if this is tears and this is crying, and both of us are feeling really shitty when I leave, why do it? Right. But at the time, we're talking what? I was going to turn 27 next month. So that was a long time ago. It wasn't like now where there was this big empowerment movement where you do you. And women are all supporting each other and everything's lovely. And Facebook groups could support you for your homeschool choices and stuff like that. It just wasn't a big movement at the time. And I was obviously a very young mother. So people already had planted a seed in my head that clearly I didn't know what I was doing. Right. So, yeah, I just faltered for a little while. I didn't really know what the right choice was. I knew that wasn't it, but I didn't know what was the right choice. So I started looking at alternative options. Like, well, maybe there's alternative options. And at this time, I was still finishing some school stuff at the University of Alberta. And they had a program there. It was called the Child Study Center. You could send your child there, I think, kindergarten. I don't even remember if the initial ones went kindergarten to, like, grade three and then they expanded it. But anyway, my kid was kindergarten, so he could go. So I took him. You could book an orientation, and you could go and watch the class. So I took him, and I remember at the time it was in the basement of the education building. So I was familiar with the building. I'd never gone down there, though. I'd not really had a reason at the time. So we went down there. And, like, a basement, like a basement of this, like, industrial giant building. And I thought, oh, this is really weird, you know? All these little kids in a basement, you know, take this elevator to the subfloor. It was so weird. But we go into this room, and it's absolutely lovely. Like, I would say that the physical building at the time wasn't ideal, but the program was fledgling at the time. And, you know, they had turned off all of the overhead fluorescent lights, and they had these beautiful lamp lighting in the room and this lovely way of doing it. And they had a living garden along this one wall where kids had these ongoing projects with plants. And they were milling about. And, you know, there were no desks, and there was no apparent structure, but everything was very cohesive. And I thought, oh, my God, it feels so good in here. They're on to something with this. And, yeah, so I sat through that class, and I left there thinking, I need to put my kid here. Like, here's the right place. It was expensive at the time. Now I look back and think, oh, man, like, that was not expensive if you think about it now. So I was a young, like, mom. And we were living on one income at the time. And that is a 45-minute drive both way, like, one way to get there. And what I wouldn't find on the days when I was doing classes or labs or what have you, but that was a lot of gas, and that was a lot of time. And I also had another young child at the time, a 3-year-old. And so, you know, there was a lot to think about. But I was really determined. I was like, no, I'm going to send my kid here. And so I did. And that's how I met the director of that program, who was a beautiful person and showed me a lot of things about education that I hadn't thought about because I hadn't been exposed. So when she exposed me to all of these options, I remember thinking, oh, my God, like, the potential for education is massive. We just have to get away from the current system. And here are these programs popping up that will enable that. Now there's all sorts of programs, right? I mean, my God, you could put your kid in anything from really specialized education to, you know, homeschooling, unschooling, travel schooling, whatever, right? Like, there's so many. But at the time, this was quite revolutionary and new here in Canada, not in the U.K. The U.K. had been doing stuff like that for a while. But anyway, yeah, so then I thought, oh, maybe I could get behind this. Maybe I could do something with this at that point. So I did. I did start really paying attention, and I did take a bunch of her courses that she was doing. She was retiring. Actually, she ended up retiring when my child was in second grade, I want to say. And he stayed at that program up until then. It was lovely. I really liked it. Of course, when she retired, and since she was the sort of pioneer in that, and that was her passion, right? It sort of fell apart after that, and they integrated into the school system. So they became a program of choice within the public system versus a private program on the university campus, and it wasn't what I wanted anymore at that point. It wasn't what I— They probably had to conform, right? Yeah, it was really weird. They had one principal for the entire school, but there was essentially two schools running out of there, right? They had the regular school program on the first two floors, I think, and then they had the child study center on the top floor. It was weird. The whole thing was weird. I think they thought they would open it up to more people that way, which is lovely. It's a great idea. But because they were suddenly under the umbrella of the public system, they then were hiring public school teachers who had no training or real background in the philosophy. Of course. Right? So— So how could that go well? How could it go well? Oh, God. It did not go well. It went— It was a— Oh, I think it's still running, to be honest. I haven't really looked into it in a long time. A hybrid style? Yeah, maybe. Like, I haven't looked at it at all. Right. But I remember in those early days when they moved from the university campus over into this public school that was just literally right off campus, I remember there were all these meetings with parents, and they were, like, on their feet yelling, and it was heated, and they were, like, it was just this disaster. And I just remember sitting there thinking, it's not worth it for me. It's not worth it for me to go through all this stress as a parent and as a person, and for my child to be in what was essentially at this point sort of a testing program now, right? So I just took him out. I just said, we're not going to go anymore. We're not going to do that. In fact, we're just not going to go at all, and we're going to do our own thing. That was how that started. Was it the birth of the homeschooling? It was the birth. That poor first kid, hey, they're just trial and error. That's how it started. And I had no idea, like, literally no idea what I was doing at all. I just knew that what I was doing then no longer worked, and I had to shift. So I pulled my kid out, and he would have been in about grade three, I guess. Yeah, that's about right. And I was like, no, I don't think so. I don't want that. But there was also a lot of backlash from my own family, you know, from strangers. Strangers love to give you an opinion, especially when you're young. Like, you know, I would have been in my very early 20s, I guess, at that point with two kids, and people were just like, you can't do that. You can't just take a kid out and decide you're going to be in control. And I think looking back now that that was just, there were a lot of women in particular who were just like, that's not how that works, right? And I think that's because they were from that generation where even if they wanted other options, they just didn't feel empowered enough to take them. And so when they saw someone coming up underneath them doing that, I think it was a little bit of like, no, if I had to, you have to. Right. Right. And I feel sorry for that. That's sad. But I also didn't really care. So I just took my kids and did that. And then I was like, wait a minute, look at all this freedom to travel. Look at this. We're not stuck by any, we're not bound by anything. None of that. Right. It was great. It was a really, really great. I felt really scared, but also really, really, really empowered in my own personhood, in my parenthood. Yeah. And never missing, like, just not being sad. I was so sad, so sad to have them gone all day like that. And I would just be like looking at my clock, you know, waiting. I got to go. Yay. And, you know, picking them up and just the joy when you grab them and thinking, geez, like I must have missed out on a lot that day, you know? And then and then when you start really looking at how the system is and how it's designed, you realize that missing out on what your kids are doing during the day is the least of the worries of having your kids there. Right. So and then, yeah, none of my other kids ever ever went. That's not true. My daughter wanted to go once or twice. So and I do want to respect autonomy, right? Like one of the biggest issues I had with public schools was the lack of autonomy. And so I didn't do that with my kids. I didn't yank them out and say, you can never go there. You know, I hope they wouldn't want to. But my daughter, she did want to go. In about grade three, she went for about I think she went to Christmas. And then she was like, no, thanks. Yeah. So I took her out of there. Yeah. She was like, oh, God, like it was fun for a bit. But like, I want to sleep in and eat pancakes and stuff. Right. So we did that. And then I and then in high school, she wanted to go in high school. So she went in high school for a bit right during covid. It was really great. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, oh, man. Yeah. Well, I mean, the schools were not the healthiest places to be psychologically already. And then you pile on everything else they were doing with the mandates and the chaos that ensued. Oh, man. But she survived it. Yeah. But you know what was really interesting? So after after she was all over and she she had graduated and which was really her primary objective, she just wanted a grad dress. Right. I kid you not. Okay. Like she didn't give a shit about the academics or whatever. But I will say she was amazingly good at them. Right. She was able to easily adapt and do all those things and whatever. So it's all over. And we were in our backyard and we were burning some stuff and she was just burning some old schoolwork, you know, getting rid of that stuff. And she said to me, that was really awful. You know, high school was really awful. And I wish that I would not have gone there. And so I didn't say anything. And she said, you know, I know you knew it was going to be like that. And it must have been really hard for you to let me go there still. So that was a moment. That was a moment for me because I was like, whoo, it was hard. Yeah. It was really, really hard because you want I wanted her to obviously have the experiences she felt like she wanted or needed. But I knew the psychological damage that was going to happen. And I knew my own child well enough to know her limits for those types of things. Yeah, things we don't realize our parents know about us in the moment. Yeah, of course. And I knew where she was at. Right. I knew what she was thinking. I was like, oh, man. Yeah. I'm that mom right now. Right. And different. Right. Because she's my only daughter. My rest of my kids are boys. She gave me a run for my money. You know, the boys. Probably what her job was. The boys just were a lot more like, that's what mom says. That seems right. Yeah. They trusted you. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Or she was more like you, I guess. Yeah. Which is infuriating. Yeah. It's like, come on. Funny how that works. One of me is enough. Yeah, that's. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I could barely take one of me. And she's now in New Zealand. Wow. Traveling the world. She's traveling. So I love it for her. Like, I love that I was able to show her travel as a single parent, as a woman, with kids when she was younger. Right. Right. So I love that she saw that. And then when she got older, she also wanted that and was able to feel confident in going halfway across the world or all the way across the world. Yeah. Yeah. And on her own. So, of course, that was a devilish sword, right? Because I was like, oh, God. When everything you hope your child will be suddenly comes to fruition, it's a terrible feeling because it's like, damn, I made them too independent and now they're just leaving. Yeah. So heartbroken does not describe how I felt for myself. But for her, I was really thrilled. That's exciting. How did she pick New Zealand? I don't know. She initially had other ideas. And I think she picked New Zealand. I would say she picked it because there's no language barrier. Right. Right. They speak English. And in a lot of ways, it's really, really similar to Vancouver Island. I've heard that. Yeah. Very, very, very similar. So I felt like she felt that wouldn't be too difficult of a transition. But I didn't really question her on it. I just thought, that's fine. She can go there. And she did the whole thing herself. She did all of the travel stuff. She arranged the hostels. She worked two jobs for a year straight to save enough money to go. Super determined kid. Super. Yeah. And she's 18? Yeah, she'll be 19 this summer. Oh, wow. Good on her. I love it. I love, yeah. Is it just New Zealand or is it part of a tour thing that she's doing? Yeah. So I think, yeah, it's part of a tour thing. So she got the visa to go there, the working visa. So she's not working yet, but she will be working when she runs out of money. And then she's coming back here. She's coming back in August. And her and her oldest brother are doing a road trip down to Tennessee. So I love this. Okay, so all my older kids now are sort of, they've sort of regrouped. And they're traveling together. And so they're living the same life we lived growing up. But I don't need to be there anymore. Mm-hmm. You know? They have these beautiful bonds. And they have this amazing outlook. And they are just so there for each other. And I'm able to step back. And that's the goal, right? That's what you want. You want to be able to know that when you step back. Oh, yeah. Oh, God. It's the worst, actually. Yeah. Yeah. It's horrible. It's horrible to know that you gave them everything they needed to thrive. But they don't need you to do it anymore. Mm-hmm. Right? So it's like, yay me, but oh, God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they homeschooled for most of their young lives. Yeah. So you were a family unit pretty much through thick and thin, through everything, through education. And so I guess that would lend itself to the idea that now in their early, you know, adulthood. Yeah. I mean, I guess one of them is, what, 27. So he's well on the way. But the fact that they naturally gravitate back to the family unit is quite, well, I don't know if it's rare, but not a lot of families have these days, I don't think. I don't know. I can't speak for my own family. They don't. I know we're more independent, separated, and kind of went our own ways and never really looked back, right? We're still, you know, oh, hey, we're still related. Let's check in once a year, right? But it's not like this cohesive thing that you seem to have. Or I would imagine a lot of homeschooling or rural-type lifestyles might generate. Yeah. Well, and that's something that the system is designed to do, right? So if you look at that, the system is designed to fragment families. You take a child away at a very young age. You put them into a setting like a school or a daycare or what have you, where the primary caregiver is not the parent. You automatically fragment that. And that's sad. That's a really sad situation. And it's become a norm. Like, people don't even think about it. They just don't even imagine what that is. Well, it's astonishing the things that we normalize nowadays. It's disturbing, really. Yeah, completely normalized. And it's horrifying. And one of the things that my daughter noticed going into high school, like a public high school, is she would say things to me like, Mom, they don't like their parents. My friends don't. They'd say mean things about them. And they're always trash-talking. And they don't do anything together. And she was like, that is weird. And I'm like, it's not. That's the norm. The system has undermined their parents their entire lives. So that's just by design, right? And, yeah, she just couldn't really. She was just like, oh. Had a lot of her high school friends at my house a lot of times through high school. And they really do want an adult to talk to, right? But they've just been conditioned by the school system and whatever else is out there now, social media and all these things, that there's some sort of a division, right? Like that their parents aren't that person. And it's sad, especially seeing how they do want that. They do want someone to chat with, to talk to. I mean, I can't tell you how many of those kids crying in my kitchen over broken-up girlfriends and boyfriends. Particularly during COVID when mental health was extremely hard on that age group. There was a lot, a lot of upset kids in my kitchen. And it's not that those parents are intentionally doing anything to disrupt their family unit. It's just that is what's happening, right? That's not their intent. Of course, yeah, nobody intends to harm their child or put them in a shitty situation or traumatize them. But how many are aware enough to see that what they're doing, how they're living is contributing to exactly that? And if they entrust them to the public system where, I guess, they imagine that being around kids of the same age and going through the same stuff that they have each other to confide in and all that. But I think they sort of discount the value of parenting, the presence in parenting and just physically being there, but also emotionally being there too, right? That fragmentation you were talking about, it becomes normalized. So they, I don't know, for some reason, they believe they don't have that outlet at home. So they end up in your kitchen, which is like, what's happening here? Yeah, or worse, peer-to-peer, right? Yeah. Like, what? All those kids are going through the same messed up stuff. How on earth are they supposed to help each other through it without some sort of foundation or some sort of mentor or somebody guiding them? How can it just be like, hey, you're fucked up and I'm fucked up and like, let's help each other? Yeah. It doesn't even make any sense. So, and it's just, oh God, the whole thing's a mess. It's a mess and I cannot stress enough how important it is that if you, if your kid is there and that's the option that you've gone with, really, really be involved in that. Really take a hard look at what's going on there. You know, go into the school, spend time there, talk to your kid a lot because stuff's going on there that you have no idea as a parent. You just have no idea. And back when I was still, I did spend two years teaching in the public system after my third child. That was really, that was really what sent me over the edge. I was already not a fan just from my own other children having experiences there. But spending time inside the machine, that was it. That was it. I was just like, oh my God, not only can I not be a part of this, but I'm going to have to talk really loudly now about why other people should not be a part of this. It's not a place that anybody should be. It's not safe for kids. It's not safe for faculty. It's not emotionally, psychologically, and physically now safe. It's awful. And now as an educator working in alternative forms of education, I do get a lot of kids who've come through that system and their parents have come to the conclusion that that's not what they're wanting. They've seen the issues in their kids and in the system. They've pulled them out. I get some of those kids and the damage, just the amount of time I have to spend repairing the damage before we can even think about academics. What kind of damage? Do you mean psychological, emotional? Yeah, psychological, emotional. The damage to personhood is what I would say. Okay. And trust. Trust, oh, it's so sad. And it makes my job really hard because obviously I want to support these families. I want to support these kids. But holy man, the emotional exhaustion on me is sometimes unbearable. And the things you hear, like you get these, you know, the things parents will endure before they really snap and take their kid out always blows my mind. It's like years of bullying and trying to work with faculty and trying to mitigate situations and stuff like that, right? And it's like, oh my God, the years you dealt with that. Horrible because they're also within the system as a parent. There's no one to advocate for you. Right. Right? Like you can advocate for your kid and you will, obviously. But who advocates for the parents, right? Who supports them? Who helps them through a system that is designed to never take fault? It's really sad to watch the parents as well with a struggling child. That's a bulk of my, probably a large bulk of my job, particularly post COVID, which really fucked everyone up like 10 times as bad. So much of my job. It puts you in the pressure cooker. And I'm really blown away with how people just seem to not deal with the fallout. Right? Like it's like, oh, that's over. Let's just put that in a suitcase and pack it away. Exactly. And that's, of course, you and I have been quite active and vocal throughout this whole thing on the, you know, what, quote unquote, truther side of things. So we knew, and you obviously knew much better than I, because you have children, what was happening, what was going to happen and I guess potentially what the fallout would be and now is, right? Yeah. So from my perspective, you're trying to, you know, inform and educate and awaken people to the reality of what's going on and the falsehoods that are being spread and all the, just the nastiness, the propaganda, but then having children and seeing right in your own home and the few that stuck around and toughed it through. And those couple of years, just, you know, just trying to survive and keep a business going and all the rest, nevermind all the emotional heaviness, weights and trauma that was ongoing for a couple of years and going on three now and it's still, it's not over, right? I think it's a little more than infuriating just knowing through this whole time, it didn't need to have to happen. It didn't need to be that way. Yet that compressor came in and well, here we are. And then there's, it's not letting up. Now there's these other things that they're piling onto kids' minds and that they have to decide about identity politics and the climate and all the other stuff. So it's like a endless barrage of, well, here's this now and you tell us what you want because you're the kid and you know, right? Oh my God. And it's just like, you've got these, like the psychological and emotional fallout from COVID, how that was for children, right? Not being dealt with like, just like, and, and it's like, like kids are angry. Okay. We've got little kids and bigger kids and they are pissed because they don't know how to process what has happened. Right. And no one is helping them. Yeah. The parents don't know how to process it. Right. And even if they did, the parents are so frigging burnt out. Just from trying to survive the last few years and now trying to survive this, the inflation and all the other stuff that's going on. Everybody is a broken mess and you know, it's evident if you look around, but the fact that even in schools, like if you look at schools, how they're not even dealing with it, right. And then, and then you've got these kids that are like raging and tantruming and throwing desks and throwing chairs and shooting teachers in the States and you know, all this stuff that's happening and it's like, and everyone's up in arms. Oh my God, the state of education and the state of this and that. And I'm just like, well, if we would have dealt with the root cause here a little bit, this would not be happening to the extent that it's happening. Exactly. Yeah. And formative years, we're talking, we're talking limited windows into formative years where we are just failing and failing and failing. And it's hard to watch. It's also hard to be on the side of trying to not do that, right. Trying to genuinely guide youth and help youth and develop personhood and help everybody grow into somewhat adjusted adults. Eventually it feels like constantly climbing uphill. Yeah. Right. And it's like, well, how much longer, like how much, how much more of that can you give at some point? Right. So it's, it's constantly like that. It's constantly like, Oh. Oh yeah. And especially right now, you're probably primarily in damage control mode. Like you're not even able to engage your curriculum, how you would want to. Oh yeah. Cause you have to first undo, unlearn all these things. And as little people, I mean, these things are, like you're saying, impossible to, to comprehend and understand and process and now learn stuff and do stuff and educate yourself and learn about stuff. You know, it's difficult enough for adults who have some, hopefully some capacity and tools and experience to, you know, cope, manage and regulate or up or down, regulate if they even understand those things themselves, which I would argue that they don't, they don't. So how could they possibly offer that for the children? And then the children put into classrooms with teachers who are stressed out, we're constantly pressured from political angles from, you know, I don't pretend to know what happens inside the politics of education. I don't pretend to know what happens inside the politics of education. I don't pretend to know what happens inside the politics of education, but I can't imagine it's a good and healthy environment where adults communicate in adult ways, you know, what's best for the children. Well, I'm just here for the paycheck. Then I'm gone. I mean, that's probably oversimplifying, but yeah, the devolution of the whole system hasn't helped. Right. Of course. Yeah. And they're probably put in impossible situations, right? Impossible. And, and it, it's not the teachers, right. It's the system. Yeah. So I don't care. I don't care how great you are. Eventually, if you're in a system that goes against your internal heart and values and morals and ethics, you are either going to quit and leave or you're going to get bitter and angry. So there's no, there's no good outcome there. There's no good outcome for that. And just these kids, just these kids and you're right. So much of what it is right now is damage control and, and re-regulating the nervous system, right? Kids, kids brains and bodies are flushed with cortisol and they can't think straight and they are in constant fight or flight mode. And the brain, the brain can't learn like that. No, that's, we're not, that's not how it works. Your brain cannot be in an optimal learning state when you are at your base primal fight or flight stance. So yeah, a lot of it is that, and it is frustrating as hell trying to get through that part first and to help kids realize they're in a safe place. It is a safe space. Um, I, I'm not going to manipulate them. I'm not here to power struggle. I'm here to work with them for them. And, um, there's no shaming. We're not going to do any of those things, but they are hardwired some of them are coming out of those systems, that that is what's going to happen. And undoing that damage takes years, years. I don't have these kids for that long. A lot of the time, right? Exactly. Yeah. I would imagine there's a lot of, um, people in a similar circumstance who are trying to pursue the same thing. Homeschooling, unschooling, whatever you, um, want to call it. I guess there are different things, but if they have to unschool first, then you can homeschool, right? Yeah. I mean, unschooling is a philosophy. Well, it's a way of life actually. That's, um, I think, I think you're thinking de-schooling, you know, which is where you take that year off coming out. I recommend that, you know, if people are coming out of the public system, I strongly recommend they take a year of, um, de-schooling, which not doing anything except living your life and re-regulating your kids. Uh, don't worry about curriculum. Don't worry about schoolwork. Don't worry about the academics. Just heal your kid's body and mind first and yours like parents, parents are a big part of the problem when they pull a kid out because they are coming from a generation that they all went to school. So even if you... Well, and there's the pressure to, well, you can't let my kid get behind. They're going to be left behind or whatever you want to attach to that. What do you mean take a year off? They don't get to be five again or six again or three. How can it take a year? That's forever in kid years. Yeah. But it's not. Yeah. Yeah. Just falling behind, falling behind is such a strange concept, right? Exactly. Falling behind what? Assuming everyone learns the same way at the same rate and is interested in the same things and thus taking a year off. That's impossible. But it sounds like it could be one of the most constructive things. Oh, it's so needed. I just, the sleep deprivation, like kids, kids in public school are extremely sleep deprived and, um... See, that's shocking to me. Why? Well... Why are they so... Well, I think about it like you're getting up so early to get to these things. Mom and dad are getting to work often, like you have both working parents. Right. Kids are getting up, they're rushing, they're on this tight schedule, breakfast out the door, get in this thing, do this thing all day in school. Um, and then oftentimes if parents are working, they're going into afterschool care or they've got sports or whatever they're going into, right? So then they're going into that. There's no, there's no downtime at all. There's no time during that space for them to regulate, um, to recenter, to sort of ground a little bit. And then it's, it's often from that you're into food and bed again. Food, shower, bed. Yeah. Um, so it's, it's not necessarily... Well, it is a sleep deprivation. And, um, particularly in the teenage years where you have teenagers that really are requiring a lot of sleep. Um, one of the top things that I hear from parents who have pulled out kids in that sort of 12 to 15 year old range is all my kid wants to do is sleep. And it's like, yeah, cause their body needs recovery. So sleeping is something I recommend you let your kid do as much as they want when you pull them out of public school. They need sleep. They need food, proper food. You ever, you ever been to a lunch hour in a public school? I can only imagine. There's no eating. You know, it's just, so you've got, you're not, you're not sleeping properly. You're not following your body's natural rhythms. And then you're not eating properly. So you're not getting proper nourishment to help your body and your brain. Then on top of that, you're dealing with bullying, social media influence, unregulated teachers who have got their own shit going on and projecting that onto your kids, you know, and then, and then academics, you're supposed to somehow be able to be academically aware and ready. And getting exercise and passing, you know, fitness things, uh, physically or psychologically and the testing and the, you got to be productive and progressing, or there's something wrong and you might need to consider medication. Yeah. Yeah. It's a recipe for disaster, right? And then you get these kids in their like teenage years and early twenties and everybody's mental health is in the shitter. It's like, well, what did you think was going to happen? You know, and nobody wants to take responsibility for the fact that they just put them through a grinder for K through 12 typically. Yeah. Or more. If you've got these parents that have, are putting kids in like preschools, you know, if you've got three and four year olds going to preschool and it's just like, God, I cringe, cringe. When I see that, don't put your three and four year olds in the strange regimented thing with buzzers and whistles and boundaries and barriers to, you know, I'll conform. What, what other word could it be? And perform and perform. Yeah. It's just like, what? You know, I see these, you know, sometimes I see these message boards or whatever that I just, I just dated myself. I meant like, you know, Facebook groups or whatever. Yeah. Same deal. It's just prettier nowadays. Yeah. And so when it's like, it's like moms of these like really little kids and they're like, does anybody have ideas on, you know, what's the best way to get them out of there? And it's like, well, how old is the kid? You know? And she's like, oh, my kid's like four. And I'm just like choking on my coffee, you know, on my front of my computer screen. I'm like, Oh no, hard pass. Don't do that. But they think that's, they think they need to like, no, there's no four year old that needs to read. Um, unless they want to, if they want to. Yeah, sure. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Um, unless they want to, if they want to. Yeah, sure. Great. Exactly. But like, stop, stop with that, doing that kind of stuff, you know? And it's just like, it's like this race to adulthood or race to productivity. I don't even know what the hell the standard is or what, what the, what the hurry is when the slow organic, natural unfolding of a mind and a body and emotionality, I'm not a teacher or a parent. So to me as an outsider to that reality, doesn't that seem logical and reasonable and rational that the kid's going to have some sort of internal mechanism and internal process that's going to know, you know, you're there for guidance and to, you know, help them figure out math, reading, whatever it might be, but don't they know kind of by their natural sort of processes as, when it's time to start reading or to really start soaking in facts and facts and history and literature or whatever it is, you know? Yeah. I mean, really, all we need to do is provide the environment and provide the right environment. So, and that's different for everybody. You cannot provide another problem with the environment. Yeah. It's right. And, and yes, most, the human brain is designed to learn. So you can't, unless there's an impairment, it should be left alone to do that. There are times of course, where you can see that children there, there is something there where they're needing help. You know, it's clear that it's a delay or disability or something that is not going to organically work itself through and they are going to need some help. That's a little different, right? But if you're talking about... Nowadays, there's more kids that have, sorry to interrupt, but like, or they're probably too easily put on the spectrum as it were. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you've got a lot more kids that genuinely are on the spectrum. Yeah. You know, and it's like, no one's going to, no one's going to talk about this. Like the fact that when I, 15 years ago, 15 years ago, that's not how it was. Right. Not to say that there weren't a lot of neurodiverse children. There were, but not to the extent we're seeing now. And I know everyone's going to jump on the bandwagon of, well, now there's better diagnostic tools and now we can do this and that and whatever. And it's like, okay, no. But they've also added 300 more conditions, quote unquote. Oh yeah. The book gets thicker every year. You eat too much. You have this. If you don't eat enough, you have this. If you think too much of that, if you don't think enough, you have that. Yeah. It's a label for everything, which is good. And I'm seeing so many kids come through with genuine neuro irregularities. And I don't know, I don't know what that is. I don't know if we're talking environmental or we're talking, you know, medical or what's happening there, but it is very, very prevalent. And I'm not saying that those things all need diagnosis and they all need intervention because a lot of that stuff doesn't. But there is a genuine uptick in this kind of brain development now. And it's pretty alarming, but I'm not a doctor, so that's not my, I can only observe what I'm seeing. Right. And you see a difference between your kids and the ones that come into your classrooms? My kids like biologically or my kids that I teach. Yeah. Or are they having similar sort of hiccups, hangups, neuro? Yeah. Yeah. I'm seeing it across the board. Yeah. I'm seeing that across the board. Public school, homeschool, whatever. It's definitely, I'm seeing it. I mean, it's probably an oversimplification to say that it's the massive explosion of screens and devices and constant inputs from smart this and that and screens and not actually having physical books and pages to turn, you know, or even pencils. Right. Everyone's rushing to the technocratic angle of education. Oh man. I can't even tell you the amount of kids that can't use a pair of scissors. It's just, I can't just get started on the screens. Like the screen thing is a really big issue for me. It's destroying kids. It's destroying their brain capacity. I get these kids in and I'm talking like these little kids who's, none of their frontal cortex has developed, you know, and they're on these screens and I'm just, screaming in my head like, Oh, that's not how that works. You cannot give kids screens before they have a developed prefrontal cortex because they're just not, they're not able to simultaneously do both those things. So what happens is you rewire the brain, you rewire the way you think and you rewire the way you think and you rewire the brain. You rewire the way the brain is functioning, the way it's taking in data, the way it's able to output, in a way that's unnatural. That's not the way our brains work. So you get these kids who are just a mess. They're a mess and they can't, they can't recognize. Oh yeah. You get addicts, full blown addicts. Yeah. And it's like, and I think, I think a lot of times parents because you know, they're gone to work, right? They spend this, whatever, seven hours, eight hours more away from their kids in a day. They don't see the impact of the screens because you know, you come home, you give your kid an iPad while you cook dinner. Well, it seems fine. You know, they're just sitting there, they're just doing their little whatever. But the addiction, the addiction is real. It's real. I've, I've, I've watched kids have full, full blown mental breakdowns over something in their game that they missed or they want it to be a part of, or, or this and that. Like the way you watch an addict lose their mind, missing a fix. It is shocking. It is shocking. And also I think the most disturbing part for me is aside from the fact that we're messing with brains is that kids as young as six are living in alternate realities. So they have these games that are interactive now, right? They're full worlds, very interactive. They've got chat options, they've got their friends are in there, right? So that is like, that is, that is a reality for them. That's where they, that's where they're. And just because you remove the screen, your kid's brain is still there, right? So all day they're just thinking about that. I get these kids in my classes and they, they, they can't talk about anything rooted in reality. Every single thing relates back to something in their game. Right? So it's like, like the most, which is different from engaging and imagination. Say, Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They're not even. Because the game does it for them. It creates this thing for them. So they don't have to even exercise that neuronal pathway. Yeah, no, at all. And it's like, everything is about that. Social interactions are about that. So like if they, if they come into a group where let's say those kids don't have access to that and they're not playing with that, they don't know how to talk to them. Right. Because they can't talk about anything other than their Fortnite characters or their Minecraft world or whatever it is, you know? And it's like, Oh my God, these kids can't interact. They can't function unless it's about that. And, and I'm seeing, I'm seeing that a lot and seeing that divide of like, cause there are a lot of parents who have realized the dangers of tech, early tech and screens and they're, they're opting not to do that. Right. So you've got these kids that are not immersed in that world and then, and then you've got the kids who are, and when you put them both in a group, it's wild. It's, it's just like. Like they're strangers. Can't even. On multiple levels. On multiple levels. Yeah. And we get that like in our outdoor program, that's where I see it. That's where I see it most prevalent. Cause if you take a kid that spends a lot of time on screens and indoors and you put them into one of our outdoor programs, which by the way, is a great idea because they need that. But. Yeah, we'll get to that. But they struggle. They really struggle to be autonomous, to direct their learning, to direct their play, to direct their socialization. You know, they wander around aimless for a while and they they're easily bored. They need constant dopamine. Right. So. Autonomous is just wrong. Yeah. In our culture now. Yeah. Don't be bored. Right. Put up your phone. Yeah. You don't have to be bored for a split second. Not a split second. And, and then they can't. I watch them be unhappy. Right. Cause they're like, Oh, it's like, I'm bored. And you know, and they can't, they don't know how to self-direct to play. And, and you can really see that, like, you can really see those kids that we've got that don't have that, or that have been in our programs for a long time and have sort of been able to regulate out of that. You know, those kids are climbing trees. They're in creeks. They're catching fish. They're playing role playing games. They're, they're in a whole imaginary world. They're filthy. They're wet. They're doing all these things. Right. And, and then you get the other ones who that's not their norm. And they spend a lot of time on screens and they just kind of mope around, you know, they just mope around for a bit and poke at a couple of sticks on the ground and, you know, they're very dissociated, very, very dissociated. They come around. Yeah. The brain is amazing like that. They they'll come around, but I think if parents could see that, like if you could see your kid in that environment and see what's happening, I can't imagine that you would allow screens anymore. That's just unacceptable to me. And is that, um, Margaret, we might as well talk about your, your program, your business under the arch. Right. That's us. And that is something that, did you start that only when you moved to the West coast or was that certain you started even before? Oh no. Yeah. So I was doing that for years before. Okay. Yeah. In Alberta. Um, I've on, on a bigger scale, actually. So the bigger scale there. Okay. Right. Cause you were closer to city centers, I guess. Right. That's right. Yeah. Bigger cities, more clients, bigger scale bodies. Yeah, for sure. Um, and actually when I moved out here, so I guess coming eight years ago now, I wasn't going to do that. I've been doing it for a really long time. And anybody who works in any field that deals with human beings, uh, constantly knows that's burnout. And so I was like, nevermind parenting. Yeah. And parenting on top of that and single parent, but at that point I was single parenting. Right. So, um, when I moved out here, I was like, I, I, I'm not going to do that actually. And I took a year off to just, you know, settle, get my bearings. I was in a new place, didn't know anybody, uh, had the kids, you know, anyway, I was trying to, to recreate what they needed. And then I started looking at the time for something for my youngest child, just, just really casually, just like maybe some fun things that we could do. Maybe there were, um, drop-in groups or, or neat things like that. And there were, and so we went to a couple of those and I again was like, these are okay, but I, this is not something I'd want on a regular basis for my kid. So then I just started something really small. I was like, you know, I'll just do a couple of kids with my kid and, and we'll just have this really lovely little thing. And, uh, it was, but then it caught on. Then people were like, wait a minute. Uh, we, we want to do that too. And, um, then it, then it just grew and grew and grew into what it is now. And I'm really grateful for that. It's been a really rewarding thing. Also exhausting. And, um, you know, I'm a firm believer in ending up where you're supposed to be. So clearly that's a path I need to be on and, uh, I'm happy to do that. But yeah, it's, it's a constant fine line because there's a lot of demand. There's been a lot of demand. Homeschooling has really exploded, um, in the last 10 years and particularly since COVID. But the whole premise of my teaching philosophy and my programming is small groups. So I'm at a limit for how many kids I can take in before I compromise my program, which I'm not willing to do. So, uh, it's a fine line all the time. Cause I'm always feeling like, oh, I could probably just take that one more kid. Right. Cause I don't want any child or parent to feel unsupported when they're trying to do what's best for them outside of a system. Cause that's already a struggle. It's already hard. And if you don't have support, God, that's, that's really hard. So it's hard for me to say no to new families, but it has to be done. What options do they have? I mean, if you are, you know, people like yourself aren't available, they have to take up the reins themselves. Do they not? Yeah. Yeah. Or at least try. Yeah. And I do offer like just support services, just consultation and support services. And instead of like, if my programs are full, I can take you on as, you know, as a consultant, I can support, I can help you through the process and give you some support as you're going along. But again, I only have so much time for that. That's right. Yeah. Right. And the system is confusing, jumping into homeschooling from public schooling, or even just from like little, like you just decided school's not for you, but you're going to go into homeschooling. It's confusing. It's a lot of figuring out, first of all, just how do you do it? Do you need to register? Where do I go? How do I, you know, all that stuff. And help for that is not readily available or easy. It's convoluted. It's a lot of information and it's been made more difficult than it needs to be. Right. And there's of course the social pressures of, again, you know, you take any kid out of public school, how are they going to socialize? Are they going to know how to talk to anybody? Oh, that's my favorite. Yeah. Right. I mean, these asinine arguments that have nothing logical about them. Nothing logical. If you're bothered to take a look, bothered to research a little bit, or talk to someone like yourself who can dispel these worries with one sentence. No, that's not true. We're not broken if we don't go to public institutions. Yeah. Right. Like, and socialization, like, yeah, that's normal. It's normal to be in a room with a bunch of people, the exact same age as you, the exact same age. And not, not people you chose either. Right. Like forced, forced socialization, because that's normal. So, it's bizarre. That's bizarre to me, but yeah. So we started doing that. I love it. I love the programs. We have two divisions. We have a homeschool enrichment division and then an outdoor education component. And some of our families choose to do both of those simultaneously. And some of our families are doing just one or the other. And so I'm happy to provide options for families because not everything works for everybody. I really, I really, really enjoy them. They are very different programs. You know, one is, one is a Waldorf based, little academic and, and the other one is natural sciences and outdoor education. So they're very different, but I feel like they complement each other really beautifully. Right. Right. You get that two days sort of of academic stuff in, and then you get that one or two days of natural sciences and being out in the wilderness and developing all the skills that are required. People don't realize how they are so ingrained, right? Like, for example, teaching a kid to read, a child's brain needs to be able to do something called crossing the midline before they can read. Because when you read, you, you're going across a page, right? So if your brain has not developed the skill of crossing the midline, which just means that you can cross over from left to right brain. So stuff like riding, pedaling a bike, climbing a tree, just being able to use both sides of your body simultaneously. If you can't do that, you generally can't read. So how many kids do you know that are still climbing trees though? I don't know. I go by an awful lot of playgrounds in it. They're peaceful far too often, especially during the day. I mean, that's the general accepted thing because they're in school or whatever they might be, right? Because folks are working. And these days, yeah, you need, usually if you have two parent households, which are exceedingly rare, I think, and they're both working, they're working. Yeah. And if it's only one, they're working two jobs or maybe three. I don't know. Yeah, exactly. That's, that's it. You've got to be able to do this stuff. Ride a bike, you know, play street hockey, any of these types of things where you're you're moving both sides of your body, you know, climbing over logs, wading through creeks, moving your body and helping it when we don't develop those skills, the brain really struggles with academics. It's funny that we even have to consider developing those skills. Like as a kid, there were no, you know, I'm just thinking of myself now. There were, there was no cell phones or ways to get in touch. Yeah. You know, kind of take off in the morning, be back for supper. Okay. Where'd the kid go? I don't know. Yeah. It was with his friends for a while. Then he was down at the beach and then, you know, he was playing hockey then he was riding the bike to whatever, you know, some 10, 15 kilometers away all by himself. Yeah. We, that's, that was normal. Like there was no paranoia and hysteria about it. Right. So it's odd. And then you'd learn, you know, the chain falls off your bike. How am I going to get home? Put the chain back on. You're going to get a little greasy. It's okay. You'll figure it out. You know, I was like, Oh, I'm screwed. Mom, come pick me up. Right. You know, nowadays you hit the panic button. It's wild. It's crazy. Yeah. But that we have to learn the skills of climbing over logs and falling into Creek and getting out and, Oh, I'm going to have to change my clothes. Right. Right. I can't tell you how many kids will fall into a Creek when we first get them in the program. Cause they are still, sometimes often just even their spatial awareness is not developed. Right. Depth perception, all of these things that you would develop in a long ago when we would play outside and do these, their kids don't have them now. Right. So I, I kid you not, we'll get a kid fall in a Creek with like super shallow water. Okay. Like they just slipped on a wet rock, they've fallen in a Creek and they will sit in that freezing wet water and scream for someone to come and get them. You know, and I'm just staring at them. Like the longer you are in that cold Creek, the worse you are going to feel. Stand up. Yeah. But yeah, it's instant gratification. It's instant. Someone else do it for me. And but what's beautiful about that situation as well is that we get to watch kids go from that, that screaming, get me out of this Creek. I meltdown tantrum to, you know, two months later, that same kid will fall in that Creek and just get back up and keep going. So it's really, it's really rewarding to see that. And to see that for the kid too. Right. Yeah. I'm sure the parents notice it, you know, in their behavior and they're not freaking about over nothing. And those skills of being able to be like, I can do this. I can persevere. I'm perfectly capable, um, are so invaluable as you go into adulthood. And we need that. We need that a lot more. Instead of where you have these kids that are in these, you know, schools all day, they're shuffled from one thing to the next. They have no say over where they're going or what they're doing. Every decision is made for them. And if they make one outside of that, it's chastised. So, um, they learn not to self-regulate. They learn not to self-direct and they learn not to challenge any sort of imposed authority. And then they get out into the world and get railroaded. Yeah. They've been conditioned to go along, to get along. And you have five minutes between class or whatever to beat the buzzer or you'll be demoted a star or something. Right. You can't go to the bathroom without, without asking. Yeah. Like you, like, can you imagine, like, I don't know how people think that's okay. You not even having the autonomy over whether you can, when you can take a dump, like what? Yeah. That's horrible. And then, then they can't do any other things. Right. And over years and years and years of that, you get what you get in, in the public sector and in, wow. In, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, 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Once you gather a bunch of information like that, then you can start looking into services like me or other ones like that that can help you over or maybe you'll feel confident enough to just go on your own and seek that stuff out. There are organizations to that help with homeschooling and I wish I could remember the name of the one that's local for here. Because unfortunately, the one thing about homeschooling is that it is very specific to your location, your geographic location. So, each province in Canada, for example, will have different rules around that and you will need to follow the rules that are in your province. Okay, that's good to know. Yeah, that's why I say, go to your local group first and then, and then I would, I would definitely, you know, Google your friends, find, find, be specific though, type in like homeschool consultant near me or how do I homeschool in my city and then the services that are available to you will come up and then I would just start messaging everybody. Better yet, if you have a friend who is already homeschooling, please utilize them because they will be so helpful in getting you through that beginning part. Our website, the outdoor program has a website, the homeschool program is in the process of getting the website built. The Facebook, we have Facebook and Instagram and all those things under the arch outdoor or under the arch homeschool. Those should come up if you look for those. And that's for, what's the area you live in called again? Oceanside. Oceanside. Yeah, we live in Oceanside on Vancouver Island. So, if you're looking at physical programs where your child, you know, or you will physically attend, that's, that's the region. But because, because of the wonders of the internet, of course, we can do province wide stuff in terms of consulting and helping and support. And of course, like all worldwide stuff, one of my favorite parts about Instagram and for me, this was a really big issue because I'm not a social media fan. It's not something I really want to be a part of, but it is the way people communicate a lot of times. And one of the most beautiful things about finally breaking down and doing the Instagram stuff is the online community I've been able to build there. And the amount of messages I get from people who just need support or want to encourage me or have questions and I'm able to help with that. That's been really amazing. Excellent. Yeah, always reachable through those things. I think, I think that's an excellent place to end. Thank you for your time today. I think there's an awful lot of great information there. And I hope it benefits your efforts, too, because I know there's a lot of, especially, well, not just single mothers, but young parents, young couples that are looking for alternatives. Now, there seems to be a big movement toward unplugging from the cities, you know, de-urbanizing, getting more, even homesteading. Like they're just completely, I mean, it's probably premature for most people who are diving right into that from city life, I'm sure. But I love it. I think it's good to see. Yeah, I love that people are doing it. So the movement seems to be going toward homeschooling, unschooling, and a more organic, I don't want to say traditional, but a simplified, you know. Yeah, integrated. Technified life. Integrated. Integrated. All life is learning and all learning is life. And they need to be integrated. They need to be integrated for you to feel whole and for you to develop into the person that you are meant to be. Put the family back together. You put the good food back together. You put the skills back in. Yeah, it's not rocket science. It's actually the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. So excited to see it. I love the movement for that. I love that homesteading movement. And the people taking more control over their health, too.