Abby's Journey Interview

Abby was the president-elect of the Illinois Psychological Association, representing psychologists in Illinois. The association's goals are to protect the practice of psychology and influence legislation and policy. Abby wanted to run for president because she believed in the organization and had the support of those around her. However, she faced challenges as COVID started and had to adapt to running the organization virtually. She also navigated personal challenges, including fertility treatments and two miscarriages. Despite these difficulties, Abby received support from her team and colleagues. She ultimately became pregnant through IVF and gave birth at the end of her presidency. Abby initially felt the need to hide her personal struggles but realized it was better to share them with those she trusted. So this is the interview of Abby as a leader. Take. Whatever. I don't think we're doing takes. This is just a little app. And scene. So Abby, I have known you from the jump you were in the leadership role. You were the president-elect of the Illinois Psychological Association. And for those who are listening, the Illinois Psychological Association is a 1200 roughly member organization that represents all psychologists in Illinois. So even if you're not a member, you are represented by us. And our primary goals are to protect the practice of psychology. So what we're really looking for is to influence legislation that allows us to do our job. Influence policy that allows us to get reimbursed by insurance for our job. And that also kind of puts the parameters on our profession. But also to take positions on certain policies or roles or even conflicts that might be happening throughout the nation and certainly within the state of Illinois. So tell me about why you wanted to run for the president of this association. I have been involved in the IPA since grad school. And I am an advantageous person and a competitive person. And so I think it was always something that I naturally thought would happen one day. But as I got more involved in the IPA and actually knew what we did, I believed in it. And felt like I was ready. But I had people around me who really believed in me. And I ended up becoming president-elect as COVID was starting. So it was a tricky time. And the president before me was really dealing with the brunt of adjusting and adapting how you run a major statewide organization that had been run primarily in person. And its conventions run in person. Its meetings run in person. And also a profession that functions in person. So I was doing a lot of observing of the president and recognizing, holy hell, this COVID pandemic is probably going to be longer. I saw the writing on the wall that we thought it would be. And quite nervous about doing that. But I think I was the president before me was probably the youngest president of the IPA. And after him, I was the youngest. Wow. And how old were you? I think I was in my early 30s. Yeah. Yeah. So by decades. Yeah. Yeah. The association is pretty friendly to younger people who run. But that's still pretty young in your leadership life. For sure. And I think in the leadership life of this organization. So I had some imposter syndrome that I was working through. And that's partly why I joined the leadership development program. Yeah. Because I needed a space for people to help me really grow a backbone. And learn the nuances of leadership. For sure. And for those who might not have listened before, Abby and I met in a leadership development program. Which is an offshoot of the Illinois Psychological Association. And it's basically helping young psychologists learn the ins and outs of the organization. And how to be a leader in any organization. Not just IPA. Which is the acronym for Illinois Psychological Association. But also they're leading their own practices. Or running for any kind of elected office. That they might want to do. Or just being head of households. It really does help us understand kind of what goes into leadership. And how we can be leaders. So talk to me about some of the issues that you encountered. Or that came up during your presidency. I think that there were a number of issues. One was just sort of where I was developmentally as a psychologist. As a human. And recognizing how many psychologists we were representing. And kind of finding that balance between my personal and professional views on things. And representing the kind of synthesis of everyone's opinions and beliefs and needs. That was really tricky. That was a phase. I do like being the center of attention. You don't. I don't. I do think. I don't. I do think. But in this way, it was the absolute worst. Because it feels very personal. And I think that's where the backbone kind of came in. Was learning that it's not about Abby. It's about all of us and our elected roles. And what we are all together. Reflecting and representing. But that was hard. I was also going through quite a lot personally. So in my president last year, I was trying to conceive going through some of the early stages of that process. And had no idea about the timelines of that. So as a woman in leadership, I think a lot of women navigate timing. When do you think about expanding your family? And what if? What if it happens fast? What if it doesn't happen? So I had a lot of people who knew that that was a personal goal of mine. And knew I wanted to grow in the IPA. Who said, we're going to be here for you no matter what. Give it a shot. Let's see what happens. It is fantastically supportive. It was amazing. I have friends and colleagues that said, we will help you raise your baby. Oh my gosh. I didn't know that it would take as long as it did. And I ended up being diagnosed with a condition through the process of learning about why this was taking so long. PCOS was diagnosed with. And wrapping my head around that. And we ended up doing some medication-assisted types of treatments through working with a fertility clinic. While I was, I think I was wrapping up my presidential last year when we began that process. And took on the president role. And started the fertility treatment process. And that is a full-time job, to be honest. Working in a group practice at that time. And running the IPA. And starting fertility treatment. And lots of AM appointments. Blood work. Ultrasounds. A lot of uncertainty. At 7 AM and then 8 AM clients. It was quite the grind. Wow. And, you know, what's really sad. And I'm okay now. But I ended up going through not one but two miscarriages through my president year. Two. Yeah. I know. We were just. I thought you knew. I knew of one. You knew of one. Yeah. And I had two. And I can't tell you how. I'm sad for that me back then. Because a few people knew in the leadership that I was going through that. But I had a lot of shame about the fact that I could not attend to the role in the way that I imagined that I would as president. And that I would maybe have to step back from time to time. And I think one of the hardest things. And, again, looking back, it seems so clear how I could have thought about things. But it was very, very difficult for me to not run a meeting that occurred a few days after I ended up having a miscarriage and needing a DNC. Oh, my gosh. What it took for me to ask for help and to send out a message to my team, my executive committee and executive director at the time. To say, I can't run this meeting. And this is what's going on. And I hope you'll understand. Yeah. What did it take for you to do that? I mean, I was physically healing and recovering. And this had happened a second time. And so it was just that much more traumatic for me. Yeah. And I just recognized that I was in no position to be doing anything of that sort. Just concentrating on anything. Yeah. Like, I need to completely. It's okay for me to detach. And so I sent an email out to our team and breathed in and out. And the influx of messages I got from everyone was so special and so lovely. And I was particularly surprised by some of the messages from some of the older men, to be honest, who shared with me that they had gone through this decades ago. Oh, wow. And just sharing their own personal experiences. And, you know, Christina, I was thinking a lot about how our friendship began. And our friendship was quite remote because it all happened online and on Zoom. But I unexpectedly got flowers from you. I had shared with you that I would be unable to do an event with talking with our legislators. It was like a virtual hill visit or something of that nature. And I remember saying to you, I can't do it and I really want to and here's what's going on. And you unexpectedly sent me flowers. And I was like, wow. I can't even tell you just the surprise of getting a card from you and those beautiful flowers and what that meant. So that was a significant thing I went through through my pregnancy. That was a significant thing I went through through my presidency. Well, also significant pregnancy-wise, I'm sure. I didn't know the extent of all of that. I'm so fucking glad that I sent you those flowers. I'm so fucking glad you did too. After those losses, we had to regroup as I was president. And my medical team ultimately recommended that we do IVF. And so that was its own journey. And if anyone who's listening has any connection or awareness of it, it is quite the journey of doing egg retrieval and we ended up doing testing. There's a lot of waiting. There's a lot of emphasis on how you're treating your body and how you're fueling your body and resting and moving and all of these many different components. It's a lot. It's a lot when you have a full-time job and also run a major organization. Yeah. Ultimately, we did successfully get pregnant. And I was pregnant through my immediate past pregnant year. And I held that pregnancy, how do I put it, lightly and fiercely. And I was afraid and excited. And oddly enough, the timing kind of worked out where I ended up with a baby at the end of my presidential trio year. And he couldn't have had it any other way. He couldn't have. Yes. So a lot of things came out of my time as president. But what strikes me is how you felt the need to not so much hide it, but maybe that is what you felt. I felt that. Okay. And the fact that you realized that you couldn't in order to like, for the good of the organization, you really couldn't hide it. It was kind of, I don't know how it can't. At some point, it fused into things. And so I could have, I think I had just a realization that I can keep hiding this or keeping it private. And it's going to show up. And then people will wonder. Or I can, at least within some smaller groups of people that I feel safe with, share this so they know what's going on. And can adjust and help support me. It's an important organization. What we do and advocating, it's beyond important. But at the end of the day, a monthly meeting can be run by someone else. But when you're in that state and when you feel the weight of that role and the responsibility of that role, it can feel like you don't have a choice. Yeah. Yeah, very much so. And I just, I hope this doesn't come off as sedentary, but I just like applaud you for how you handled all of that. And hold you in so much higher esteem now. Not that I didn't, but you just raised a level because of all of the things that you were trying to carry. Thank you. When you were trying to like build your family. Right? And that certainly doesn't have to be the only thing that we focus on as women in building our families. And in fact, there are so many other things that we have to think of all at once. It really just highlights the complexity of what you were doing at the time. But also of what many women in leadership or who want to be leaders have to think about. Yes. Timing and optics. Yes, optics and perception. There's so many different layers you're navigating. Right, right, right. How did your husband share that experience? Wow, that's a good question. That's a good question that I didn't prepare you for. Oh, give me a second to think about that. Yeah. I think I imagine being the partner of someone that is, you're both going through it. For me, I spared the brunt of, spared the brunt? Sure. Is that what you say? Absolutely. Bore. Bore the brunt. I bore the brunt. Just a saying. Keep it in. I bore the brunt of it. I bore the brunt of so much of it. And I think that the partner of really goes to it too. And he was, I know he was going through his own journey and emotions. And when we had our first miscarriage, it was so devastating for the both of us. Because you start imagining and fantasizing about the family and you see this ultrasound and you think that it's going to happen and then it doesn't. And so I think him knowing the kind of personality I have and the high standards I have for myself and just that I was quick to assign blame to myself if this wasn't working, I think that was incredibly hard for him. Because it was, all of it was an anomaly. None of it made sense. None of it had anything to do with anything that I did or we did. And it happens to so many people. And then he probably felt helpless and probably dealt with his own suffering in his own way. And then also we felt that suffering for each other. I don't know if I answered your question. I think you did. I think you did. It takes a solid partnership. Like, yes. Definitely. I know a lot of women choose to do this stuff on their own. Whether it's, you know, like harvesting their eggs and saving them for a time or it's going through IVF. At least I've met a lot of women, either on my take photos or my friends, who decide to do this on their own. And that seems to me like infinitely harder than doing it as a partner. Oh my gosh. I'm the luckiest person in the world. No, really. Because, first of all, what I always say, and I work with clients going through fertility treatment, and that has actually become a specialty of mine through all of this. Yes. Congratulations on your recent credential. Thank you. Yes. Certified in perinatal mental health. A way to get back through all of that. I've absolutely learned that there are a lot of people doing this on their own. And what I'm getting at is no one should have to go through it. Period. If you want to have a family, you want to have a child, you should be able to in whatever way and how you want it and whatever form or fashion. And I'm very fortunate that I didn't have to do that by myself. So I appreciate your acknowledgement of the many things that I held then and hold now, which is that the barriers that people, especially today, encounter when it comes to reproductive mental health, excuse me, reproductive health and mental health. It's frightening and something that I hope that we will talk about more on this podcast in the future. For sure. That is inspirational. For sure. Thanks so much for sharing that part of your journey with us today. I think it's really important for people to hear this. And again, you know, in my client load, I'm a woman psychotherapist and I'm a health psychologist. So I do have that reputation of being able to help people through health things, right? Like new diagnoses. And for whatever reason, I think because I'm a woman, I've gotten a lot of women either going through IVF with their partners, going through IVF alone, or going through egg harvesting, or even going through miscarriages. And it's such a privilege, but I don't hear them also struggling. I hear them struggling with work, for sure. But I think your perspective is a special one because of the position that you held at the time. And it's a nice reminder that a lot of women do hold those leadership positions and have to try to balance all of that. I think we're in the right place. And another interesting layer is being a psychotherapist while also going through this. And whether or not you specialize in this, you're bound to work with someone at least who peripherally is going through it or is going through it themselves. And I had clients who were actively trying or pregnant, perhaps got pregnant relatively easily. Clients who were navigating a lot of these difficult things. Fortunately for me, I did have really good personal support. And so I think it's actually quite fascinating that it was harder for me to navigate that as a leader of a major organization. Maybe more so than being a practitioner at the time. I think that may be because, of course, there are those days and those topics that, for whatever reason, can be harder for us as humans to hear in a session. I think I was able to, for the most part, separate what was going on with my clients. And if I was having a hard time, I would say I was pretty good at if I needed to cancel or move things around. And I think that being in the private practice world, we have that kind of flexibility where it doesn't necessarily raise any red flags or impact clinical care. Which was a concern of mine. I didn't want that to happen. So I had to keep an eye on that. Lots of many different nuances and dynamics and roles to navigate through all of that. You're bringing up a really important thing that I think maybe we'll talk about in our mental health corner or whatever that segment is. Just about what therapists have to think about every single day in terms of their conduct and what they listen to and how we react to things. So that we can be there and we can be empathic for the client who's really the focus of that session. But that also means that sometimes we hear things that are really hard for us to hear and sit with and then help people through. And I think if everybody understands that about our profession, I think that we're going to be, everyone will be better off. I agree. Cool. Thank you so much again for sharing that. It's so important. And if no one else, I would have rather shared that story with than you. Oh my gosh, thank you. Oh my gosh, that means so much to me. I'm so glad that we're doing this together. I'm going to give you a hug when we're all done with this. And I'm going to stop right now.