Exploring the Master Narrative: Tim, Alec, Ryan

Three podcast hosts discuss the Master Narrative and compare speeches by Frederick Douglass, Fannie Lou Hamer, and Malcolm X. They explore how these speakers used the cultural specificity of the black experience to comment on the flaws of the nation. Malcolm X's speech highlights the failures of American democracy and the denial of basic rights for black Americans. Fannie Lou Hamer's speech emphasizes the deeply embedded racism in America through her personal experiences. Both speeches critique the hypocrisy and violence in the nation. Hello everyone. Welcome to our podcast. My name is Tim. My name is Ryan. And I'm Alec. Today we're going to be exploring the Master Narrative. We're going to be doing this through a comparison of some significant black texts and their relation to the cultural significance within the black experience. So the question that we chose for our discussion was the overarching question or prompt that we were aiming to answer is place Douglas' 1852 speech in conversation with Fannie Lou Hamer and Malcolm X's mid-20th century speeches. How did Douglas, Hamer, and X use the cultural specificity of the black experience to make more considerable commentary about the nation's We just want to add a quick qualifier. Our definition, our working definition of cultural specificity is the property of being specific to one or more cultures, hence not existing other cultures. And yes, I'm just going to pass it off to the guys here and they're going to give a brief synopsis of each text. Yeah. So the first text we're going to be discussing today is Frederick Douglas' What in July. That's what he spoke about in 1852. The second text we're going to be reviewing is Malcolm X's speech, the Ballard Bullitt speech, a very iconic speech, as well as Fannie Lou Hamer's speech at the 1964 DNC convention. And I think it would be a good idea to start off discussing Malcolm X's speech and how it relates to the question we were discussing and just to reiterate it, specifically talking about cultural specificity of the black experience to make larger commentary of the nation's flaws. Essentially, in Malcolm X's Ballard Bullitt speech, he uses the black experience to highlight the failures of American democracy and also highlight the nation's flaws. It essentially is warning that black Americans have been denied their right to vote and pretty much like basic human rights and what it is to be a citizen of the United States. In his speech, I found a very impactful quote and I think that really kind of highlights what we're discussing in this episode. He says, we suffer political oppression, economic exploitation, social degradation, all of them from the same enemy. And I think that quote right there just focuses on the ongoing systemic injustices that were happening at the time and how the denial of basic civil rights and failure to address racial equality really reflects deeper flaws in the nation's structure. It's a really good point. I think looking at that quote is honing in on this idea of an enemy. He actually opens his speech, the Ballard or the Bullitt, by saying brothers and sisters and friends and I see some enemies. And I think this is sort of sets the tone to his speech and how almost similar to what we see in Frederick Douglass's speech where he initially starts talking about you and your nation and then sort of as his speech progresses he talks about we and our nation. I think here Malcolm X is drawing a distinction between the black community and the white community. In his speech he also talks about this idea of being quote unquote double trapped or triple trapped where he talks about sort of how the black community is spending resources and spending money and it's going into the white community and none of that is sort of being put back into their own community. He also talks about how specifically in politics the people they're voting for is not necessarily or the changes that they want to have that are not happening and sort of there's no, they're not seeing any progress in that. Yeah, I think it's a really good point and I think that something that I found kind of central throughout this whole speech is the X's use of vivid imagery and like really trying to, I mean it's almost like violent, it's almost, I'm looking for the right word but I can't really find it, but I think like his rhetoric kind of conveys like there's like this potential for some sort of upheaval if like the systemic issues that black society and American society are grappling with aren't addressed. I think in a lot of ways it like calls attention to the sort of like moral and ethical failures that we see still reflected today that are like putting in our nation and creating a divide between two culturally different groups of people. I just think, I don't know, he draws a lot of interesting parallels between like the experiences of African Americans and also people in colonized nations. There's that one quote on page five where he's talking about like colonial powers in England and I kind of take this as like him arguing that the concept of, you guys sort of mentioned this before but like second class citizenship, it's like similar to like modern day slavery. I think it really like highlights the hypocrisy of a nation that like claims to offer freedom and all these opportunities and new experiences but at the same time it's still sort of perpetuated like the systemic inequality, like a system that keeps people down. Yeah and he's building on that too and I guess we can draw a comparison to Hamer as well but I think Malcolm X is also trying to talk about the hypocrisy or the irony or the idea that we believe we are allowed to vote but like Hamer talks about the usage of like literacy tests and here I think Malcolm X talks about how like they're encouraged to participate in voting and elections but there's no meaningful change in their specific lives or the lives of black people because of it and it's sort of all like just to support like the white community and I think Malcolm X does a really good job of sort of arguing that and emphasizing that like black people are just a pawn in like white politicians' minds and they're just being used for their own gain and sort of being manipulated and taken advantage of. That's really interesting to note that. Yeah and I think overall just X uses a different approach compared to for example Hamer's speech and as well as Douglas' speech, he definitely utilizes a more radical approach. I think he's really kind of warning in his speech that peaceful methods of resistance don't yield results and more radical action is more necessary. Right and like the example of like violent imagery. Yeah exactly. Going off of what you're talking about, about violent rhetoric and a lot of the violence that's happening at that time, Fannie Lou Hamer's speech at the 1964 Democratic National Convention offers like similar pieces to what X is saying. She, in her speech she pretty much describes her own violent experience, her personal experience of going and attempting to vote and I found the, towards the end of her speech, she kind of ended her speech by saying quote, in this America the land is free, in the home of the brave where we have to sleep with our telephones off the hook because our lives are threatened daily and kind of just going back to you know the question we're talking about, I think her, adding her personal story that's rooted in the black experience and something that many of black Americans at that time were experiencing, that really illustrates how deeply racism is embedded in America. Yeah, I definitely, I'm really glad you brought this up because this quote also strikes me as something that I hadn't done in my notes that I wanted to reference in this section of the podcast. I think the first thing about this really interesting is like first of all it's a rhetorical question, it's not like she's actually like asking for an answer, so like the way that she's presenting it is she's opening it up to be like a critical thinking question, right, like trying to understand like where is our country failing us, right, because these are some like really American ideals, like land is free, home of the brave, like you know, when you think of America, especially as somebody who's not from this country, like you're framed in the context of like you are thinking about all the opportunity that America is presenting to you. So I think the fact that this question is like rhetorical, I think it really highlights like hypocrisy of like the nation that's like professing like all these ideas of freedom and opportunity and hope, but at the same time like there's this juxtaposition with like systematic oppression of like a significant portion of its population. I think it's a really interesting way for her to appeal to an audience and powerful. Yeah, I agree. I think also like by kind of framing her personal experiences in a little bit of a larger context, she's critiquing the nation as a whole, like pointing out its failure to like live up to some sort of stated value. Yeah, almost not only like to critique the hypocrisy of the nation, but also to critique just the basic injustice and violence that's occurring in the nation at the time. It's a very, very, what happened to her was really violent and sort of aggressive and you know, just hearing her speak about her experience itself, like without her even needing to explain or explicitly critique the nation, I feel like listening to her speech, I was able to sort of just almost critique the injustice and violence myself. Right, and I'm going to cut you off. I just have one thing I wanted to say. Like I think this quote is sort of like illustrating like the violence and oppression that she was like facing and the reminder of like the lengths that authority figures are willing to go to to sort of like suppress a black voice. I don't know, it's just crazy to think about, but didn't mean to cut you off. No, no worries. I think in the context of, you know, in Fannie Lou Hamer's speech, she talks about her own experience marching down the Indianola and pretty much being denied the right to vote. I had to take literacy tests and she experienced lots of violence from the police and I think a question that I have for you guys and not just for you guys, but for the listeners out there as well, you know, the basic human right of being denied to vote, the basic human right of having the right to vote was something that black Americans at the time were struggling with and so my question was, is the exclusion of black Americans from full citizenship rights like having to vote in this context, is that considered to be a flaw in America's founding ideals or is it more of a failure in their implementation of those ideals? In other words, like are those ideals themselves flawed or is it that they have just been inconsistently applied or they just haven't been really implemented correctly? Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question. I'm glad you bring that up because it is, I don't know, I think it's almost like a two-parter. There's like two pieces to this. But I think, I don't know, like I was mentioning before, I think that there's this expectation and sort of like this theme surrounding the idea of America, it's like the land of the free, the home of the brave, this is a land of opportunity, manifest destiny, like America is like the land of like where you can pick yourself up by your bootstraps and make something of yourself and so I think that in a lot of ways like excluding a certain group of people from participating in a civic process, I think it's more a flaw in the implementation of the ideas. I think these ideas are like intrinsic to what it means to be an American. I don't know. It's really disappointing that this is something that even today we're still struggling with, like black suffrage. I don't know. Ryan, do you have any thoughts on this? Yeah, I agree. I think there's, it's important to let out one thing about this question is just sort of like that there's an intentionality in the lack of implementation unlike these sort of race and human rights. Like it's not like they're, these white politicians and white people are ignorant and they're just sort of accidentally sort of preventing and neglecting the black community. I think because of that intentionality is sort of the specific intent behind preventing them to have the right to vote. I think that it's definitely a flaw in sort of the implementation of like American ideals instead of just sort of a flaw in the nation. There you go. Yeah. I mean, do you guys think that like maybe the lack of inclusion and continued discrimination is sort of like a implicitly like written piece of how American society as a whole runs? Like, I don't know. You look at certain examples like the way that tobacco companies unfairly take advantage of people in marginalized communities or you look at certain black communities where there are like 200% more like liquor and gun stores. Like are we setting up groups of people like this up to fail? I don't know. I just think it's an interesting piece. Yeah. I don't know that I necessarily have an answer to that but I do think, again, there are almost two parts to that. I think sort of throughout history and obviously this is all connected to the master narrative and sort of like how like the perception of black people and like the stereotypes that would follow the master narrative. But I think like historically, like I think, again, there was intent behind sort of taking advantage of like these marginalized groups of people. I think as time has gone on just systemically, I don't know that there's any or as much, I don't want to say any, but as much blatant intent behind that. But I do think just because of the history of constantly like manipulating and taking advantage of these communities that it is still very, very evident in sort of our civilized society. Yeah. I think Douglass' critique on the nation's flaws pretty similarly aligned with Hamer and Malcolm X. I think the very nature of his speech is the fact that it's occurring on July 4th and sort of his whole thesis or argument or why he's even speaking is sort of to critique and sort of, yeah, critique the hypocrisy of the nation. And so, you know, they're celebrating July 4th, a holiday that sort of defines America's independence from Great Britain and to sort of celebrate the freedom of men and women and all citizens. And so Douglass really highlights and spotlights sort of the hypocrisy behind the celebration of this day because not all citizens in America at this time are equal. Not all women have the same rights. And so millions were enslaved at that time as well. And so he spends a large, pretty much the first half of his speech drawing a distinction between your nation and sort of the nation of white people who are celebrating this holiday and then like the other black people who are also in the country and supposed to be citizens and treated as such, but they're not. But, yeah, I guess a question I had for you guys was sort of how did Douglass' and Malcolm X's and Hamer's different audiences affect the rhetoric and diction that he's in his speeches? You know, my first thoughts were obviously Frederick Douglass and Hamer are talking to white people and Malcolm X is talking to black people. So, you know, I mentioned this earlier, but Malcolm X begins his speech by sort of identifying the quote unquote enemies among them. And I think he's doing that to rile up and sort of unite this community of black people to sort of push for freedom and to push for their rights. Whereas I think Douglass and Hamer are condemning and sort of critiquing and really criticizing the philosophy behind white people. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I think to add on to your question, I really want to dig into like why they're appealing to different audiences in different ways. I think it's important to remember like when these, you know, civil rights leaders and critical thinkers were speaking in some cases like they're trying to appeal to a white audience to lament, to demonstrate the pain that their community is going through and to spark some sort of like emotional appeal to try and spur change. And I think that actually has a lot of like parallels and similarities to the way that X was speaking, but it's different because his audience was so much different, right? He's speaking to a predominantly black group of people trying to inspire change. And I think you kind of see that through like the violent rhetoric versus in Hamer's speech, you're seeing a little bit more of like this melancholy, like limitation about the way that her people have been treated. And I think it's a really interesting intersection. Yeah, I think something, talking about audience is something that's, I think, very overlooked, especially in the context of these speeches. I think, you know, each respective, you know, figure, whether it's Hamer, X, or Douglass, I think by them talking about the black experience or, you know, their personal experience or just more of a broad generalization of the black experience, I think it has a way different impact depending on the audience, whether it's white people or black people. And I think one reason why Malcolm X is so influential is because he was able to kind of have more of a radical approach. And I don't know whether you talked about that, but he was kind of able to rile up the audience. And I think if you had a different audience, different results would have happened. Yeah. And I also think it's important to think about sort of the civil rights movement as a whole. I think the backbone of the civil rights movement is sort of this idea of changing the perception of black people in America. Right. And I think that specifically the reason why I think that Douglass' speech and Hamer's speech are so effective is because it's one black person talking to a community or a live audience of white people with the singular goal of changing the perception of black people and also really trying to speak about and actually explain sort of what you're saying, like the emotion behind how they're feeling because of the way they're being treated. And I think this idea of perception and sort of how it's related to the civil rights movement goes back to something Du Bois and Orrin Locke talked about with double consciousness and the New Negro. Whereas Du Bois very famously coins this idea of double consciousness where he talks about this idea of knowing oneself while also being aware of the perception that white people have about black people and sort of the imposition of that onto them. And sort of similarly O. A. Locke talks about like the New Negro and sort of defining a new perception of black people. And so I think that's really important here because I think that Douglass, in my opinion, I don't know if you guys agree, but I think that Douglass is using that to their advantage, sort of knowing how these white people perceive them and actively trying to change that to further present this idea of the New Negro. I mean, if you're listening to or reading Douglass' speech and his speech, they are super, super well educated. And I think without even sort of listening to the content, it's clear that they're very well educated and it's clear that they're intelligent people. And so not only is the content of what they're saying super, super important and necessary to sort of pushing for equality, but I also think the nature and the rhetoric and sort of how they're speaking and how they're formulating these arguments are super, super important to sort of changing this perception of black people in America. Yeah, I think that was really beautifully said. I couldn't have said it better myself. I think it was really nice how you're like tying in course themes as well, you know, talking about how these texts relate to like broader class discussions that we brought up. I think that's a really interesting point. I don't have much to add to it, I think. Yeah, I can add just one more thing. I think talking about Du Bois' The Souls of Black Folk, I think by him introducing double consciousness, I think really ties into what we're talking about when talking about audience. I think when he introduces the concept of double consciousness, I think whether the audience is white or black, I think that still kind of provides a sort of kind of, I think just bringing it back, I think Du Bois was kind of coming up with a framework for understanding all of the dark experiences described by Becks and Hamer and, yeah, I think tying in double consciousness was a really great addition. Just really quickly here, I also think thinking about sort of, you know, back to the question, we're thinking about the cultural specificity of the black experience, I think. Du Bois sort of coined this idea of double consciousness through his own black experiences, and he specifically talks about this anecdote where, you know, he's in grade school, and like everyone is buying these cards and trading them, and he's trying to trade this card with this white girl, and she sort of rejects it and denies it because she's black. Right. And then he ends up talking about the veil and double consciousness. So it's no coincidence that sort of the speeches of Du Bois and Hamer are related to double consciousness and sort of the New Negro, because despite having different experiences, they're sort of also very similar in a lot of different ways. And so I think that's also an important connection to make. Yeah, and I think that really ties in back to like the original question that we're, you know, seeking to answer in this podcast. I think a lot of ways that these texts, despite being in such different time periods, do completely like tie into each other and speak in conversation with each other. Yeah, and so that sort of concludes our discussion on the three activists. But we all just thought that despite Dublitz, Malcolm X, and Hamer having different black experiences, we all think that their speeches together like universally critique the hypocrisy of the nation. Yeah, and just going off of that, just kind of echoing what you're saying, I think even though each speech or text is different in their approach towards talking about the black experience, they all get across the message, you know, commonality that they all, at the end of the day, they all make a lot of critiques of the nation's flaws and kind of the structural failings that were going on at the time. Yeah. Beautifully said. So again, this was Tim, Ryan, and Alex. And this was our episode on exploring the master narrative comparison of significant black texts and the relation to cultural significance within the black experience.