Ep 47 Girl Scout Murders pt 2

In this episode of the podcast, the hosts talk about their upcoming ghost tours in Oklahoma City and Tulsa. They also mention a forensics seminar at the Museum of Osteology and share a personal story about a family member who attended Camp Scott. They discuss the evacuation of Camp Garland during the Girl Scouts murders and speculate on the reasons behind it. They also mention a book about the case that is difficult to find. Hi, I'm Jess and I'm Tiff and we're your curious cousins where we talk about everything kooky and spooky in the state of Oklahoma. Welcome to episode 47. Welcome, how are you? I am good, how are you? I'm good, I'm great. It's been a week, I feel like my work week has kind of gone by but it hasn't at the same time. My niece Ava who was on the show had her birthday on Tuesday so shout out to happy birthday Ava. Happy birthday Ava. And yeah, any business? We have a lot of exciting things coming up. Oh, August we're going on the Oklahoma City Ghost Tour with Jeff Provine. Super excited about that. And then in October, Tiff and I are going to do a Tulsa Arts Deco ghost walking tour. That'll be fun. Who's putting that on? Um, one second. It is the, hang on, I know what it is. Let me, just one second. I started following them on Facebook. Okay, it's the Tulsa Foundation for Architecture is who is putting it on. That's very cool. And I know that Tulsa Spirit Tours did add some Broken Arrow, which we need to get tickets for that. Yes. So we're going to do that. It'll be fun. Lots of things. Something really cool is coming up this Saturday at the Museum of Osteology. But we couldn't make it work where we could get to go but they were doing a forensics seminar. I think I posted about it on the socials, but I don't remember if I did or not. But if I didn't, then I'm going to go do that. And if anybody is in that area, the Oklahoma City area or the Norman area, they should go and tell us how it is. Yeah, for sure. Because if we didn't have other things going on, we would definitely probably be going. I know, for sure. Because you're going to the Paramore concert. I am. Ava begged me to go. And so this is kind of like her birthday, her Christmas. She's going to be a senior this year, so it's her graduation. So she's pretty excited. That's fun. I will be at a concert. Yeah, I went to the Dixie Chicks last week. It was fun. I guess the chicks now, not the Dixie Chicks, the chicks. I went and saw them. They had a really good turnout. It was packed. It was packed and it was good. It was fun. Was that at the BOK? Yeah, it was. I made a good time with some of my sorority sisters. I don't know why I say it like that. Yes, Tiff was in a sorority. Nothing wrong with that. I had fun. I liked it. My best friends were in it with me. Yeah, there you go. We have them all over. Well, I can't think of anything else. No, me neither. We are doing part two on the Girl Scouts murders. We are. Of course, if you're listening to us from the beginning, then you'll have heard my warning about the content being probably a little mature for our younger audiences. So you may want to go ahead and skip out on it. Let's get into it. Buckle up, because you are focusing on... This episode is going to be on Gene Leroy Hart, one of the suspects. Yeah, one of the suspects. Now, I guess we could say... The killer. Podcasts were unable to say this, but DNA has proven that he was the one to commit these crimes. Yes. Now, whether or not he was alone, that's another question. That's another something we'll get into, I suppose. Yeah, so let us know about this. The sources are pretty much the same. I did add Shattered Justice by J.D. Morrison, so I'm just going to include that, but any other sources are the same as you used last week, mostly. Okay, perfect. Okay, so as I said earlier, Ava's birthday was Tuesday. So Saturday, we celebrated her birthday since her birthday is on a Tuesday. And last Saturday, before her party, I say party, family gathering, really. Anyway, I was talking to my nephew, her brother. And Tater had asked me, because I was doing research for this week's episode. And so Tater had asked me what the research was on. So I had told him that it was the Camp Scott murders. And he said, oh, well, my Gigi, which is his maternal grandmother, said, well, Gigi went to Camp Scott as a Girl Scout. Oh, my goodness. And I said, sounds like I'm going to have to talk to your Gigi sometime. Right. Well, as luck would have it, Gigi and her husband were at Ava's party. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, perfect opportunity. Absolutely. So I asked her about it. And I did ask if she wouldn't mind if I talked about it on the podcast. And she said she didn't mind. So she told me that, yes, she had gone to Camp Scott. She attended it. But she wasn't there when the murders happened. So she was a teenager at that point. So she was a little older. I don't know when she stopped doing Girl Scouts. But she had just attended previously. Like maybe in the 60s or something. Yeah. And anyway, she said that she couldn't remember. Or I couldn't remember if she said she had gone for like the two weeks. But I don't know if it was just those two weeks for like one summer or if like several summers she went for the two weeks. But she did say that she hated it. Oh. Just because she wasn't really a fan of the camping. Oh, okay. Yeah. It just wasn't really her thing. If that wasn't your vibe, then you wouldn't like it. Yeah. So, like I said, she was there before the murders happened. But she did tell me that her younger brother was actually at Camp Garland when the murders took place. Oh, my gosh. And we all know that that Camp Garland was just three miles across the road. Yeah. South, I think. Yeah. Across the road. Yeah. And it was a Boy Scout camp. Yes. Sorry. She said that her mom was actually at the hair salon getting her hair done. And I think she said that she had just gotten – was like had shampoo in her hair. Oh, my gosh. When on the radio they had heard the announcement, I guess you could say, that – The newsreel, at least, yeah. At what had occurred at Camp Scott. And she said that – I mean, her mom was obviously, like, shocked and freaked out and said that her mom, like, immediately left the hair salon. And she said – I don't remember if it was just her mom or if her dad went, too. I bet – I'm assuming both parents probably went. Right. But they did go and pick her brother up. He was one of the three that got picked up. But she also said – because I asked her about that. Because she said that she thought that the entire Boy Scout camp was to be evacuated. Like, she thought that it was being evacuated so everyone's parents were going to pick them up. But she didn't remember anything about it remaining open. Right. She just – but – so she wasn't really sure about that. But she does know that her parents did go pick up her brother. Her brother did get picked up. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Interesting. It's also interesting that you say that and that the boys' parents were given the option to come and get them when the girls' parents were not. Yeah. And I want – do you think it was – maybe it was just because the girls' camp was, for sure, being closed down and they were sending everybody home, obviously, because there was an active crime scene there? Yeah. It could have been. I know. It's weird, too, because I know, like you said last week, too, that they did take more security precautions. I think they had more, like, security – I don't know if it was, like, security guards or what – Right. – that were at the boys' camp. Yeah. I don't know what it was, either. But, yeah, it just – I don't know. It's just interesting. Especially knowing what we know now in that the killers were living in the caves in the area. Right. And so with knowing that there was an active Boy Scout camp there – Well, and if you think about it, three miles is not that far. No. I mean, you could do that in an hour, you know. But also, like, a part of me – like, this is going to be really morbid and thick, but you'll get into, you know – We're going to talk about his criminal – – Gene's criminal history. And so I don't think he was interested in boys, and he wasn't interested in males, where I think all of his – And I know, and you know, and probably most of our listeners know that his aggressions were 100% towards women. Yes. So – Well, and, kookily enough, there's a book out of – what's it called? Cry for the Children? Yeah. Is that right? I think so. And it's about, I think, one of the FBI agents. Somebody wrote it. I'll look it up. I think that was in, like, law enforcement. Yeah. Anyway, it's super hard to find. If you find it on Amazon, it's, like, what was it, like, $50-plus on Amazon. It's, like, out of print. And I think the library had it, but you had to, like, go to the library. They wouldn't let you take it out of the library to look at it. Oh, that's right. That's right. You had to stay there. Yeah, here it is. Someone Cry for the Children. Someone Cry for the Children. $155 on Amazon. Yeah. Well, and crazy enough, my older brother James, we were talking about this at Ava's little get-together, and he's read that book. Oh. When he worked as a TSA officer. Right. One of his, I believe one of his coworkers had the book and had brought it and let him read it. Oh, my gosh. He was talking about it, and I was going, oh, I was just like, oh, my goodness. Wow. And I said, well, that was great. I mean, I don't know if great is the right word. I mean, that's amazing that you got to read that. I think I got the chance to read it. Yeah, because it's such a rare find nowadays. But anyway, I'm just going for $250 used on Amazon right now. The cheapest one I can find is like $66. Yeah, it's just crazy. But anyway, so. Anywho. Cookie socks, I guess. Little tidbits. Okay. Wow. So. That's insane. I mean, I have a coworker that also attended Camp Scott. Oh, did she? She did, obviously did not go in 1977, but I believe she had told me she had went in 76 or 75. And I don't know if she was supposed, I couldn't, I don't remember now after the conversation if she was supposed to go in 77 or if that just happened to be the year that she did kind of opt out of going. Yeah. So. But yeah, she had been as well. She had been. And she's, I mean, I remember like I had mentioned something to her about it and she had just said how hot it was. And, but she seemed to have enjoyed it, but she was kind of outdoorsy and like that kind of thing. But yeah. Obviously our state is not massive by any means. Right. And our population isn't. So I'm sure everybody knows at least somebody who probably had, oh, there was somebody who sent us a message on Facebook about it. One moment, please. Elevator music. I can't remember. I'll cut all this out, but it's fine. Who posts all this stuff on their Facebook page? Cheers. Any other comments? Okay. So one of our really longtime listeners, big fan of our show, Samantha Tucker. Hey, Samantha. Hey, Sam. Oh, I don't know if you like to be called Sam. Sorry. But she had mentioned that her mom lived in the area at the time and her home was located up against the field where the camp was located. And she said that the night this happened, her mom said someone had walked around their house and tried to get in the back door. Thankfully it was locked, but they did find footprints coming from the field and going around the house and back to the field. And then a few hours later they had heard what had happened. Oh my goodness. Oh, how crazy. And when you find out, when we get into the reports and stuff, you'll find out that many people in the area did find that kind of stuff. And then, you know, he did, I think, finally find somewhere to get in. And, you know, we have those farmhouses that were broken into that they figured out had been broken into. So I think he was just looking for an escape. And I mean, I could say that I wouldn't want to stay in a cave either, but well. Let's talk about Gene. Let's talk about him. Let's talk about Gene. So Gene Leroy Hart. Some of the background. And all three of their names are listed. Oh yeah. I read that on another podcast. Yep. Gene Leroy Hart was born November 27th, 1943. He was born in Claremore, Oklahoma at the Indian Hospital there. He was of Cherokee descent. And his teenage mother, Ella May, had nicknamed him Sunny. Why? I don't know. But she did. So I think he went by Sunny a lot. He never knew anything of his father, Walter Hart. And Walter was actually married when Gene was born. Oh no. But not to Hart's mother, obviously. Oh no. In fact, during the time of Hart's birth, Walter's wife of six years had had their third child two months previously. No. Yes. His mother did end up getting married to PFC Jessie Buckskin, who was nine years older than she was. And they actually had three more children together. Okay. Sadly, Jessie passed away in 1950 at the age of 33. It didn't say why. I think they said it was suddenly, but never really what had happened. And, of course, this left Ella May as a single woman with four children under the age of six. So within the next seven years after Jessie's death, Ella May would have three more children. Wait. Three more? Yes. So she had a total of seven kids. Oh my goodness. Wow. So I mention this because, obviously, times were hard for Ella May. Sorry, I lost my slide. I'm going to just reread that again. I mention this because, obviously, times were hard for Ella May and her brood of kids. And she had trouble feeding and clothing her children. She did work. She worked where she could and did what she could for her children. I mean, as a single person with seven children. Right. And with Gene being the oldest, he took it the hardest. And this made him angry towards his father, Walter, because he had to be the, quote, man of the house and try and help provide where he could for his siblings. So I guess it kind of made him resentful towards his biological father. And in turn, this also made his younger siblings, especially his brothers, kind of resent him because he was, I guess, hard on them. Acting as like an authority figure when he really wasn't. Right. I'm sure, yeah. Okay. So, Tiff, you mentioned this last week that Hart had grown up in the Locust Grove area. Yes. In fact, you mentioned that his mother lived within a mile of Camp Scott. And he was very familiar with this area. Hart was an athlete. He played both basketball and football for Locust Grove. One source said that he was voted best athlete by his senior class. Oh. He graduated from Locust Grove High School in 1963. And literally right after he graduated, he married his high school sweetheart. And I forgot he'd gotten married. And it did say that she was pregnant at the time. So I don't know if that was the reason why they got married so quickly. Or it was just they were in love and they were going to get married and do this family thing. Okay. So they had a son, and they end up moving to Tulsa, where Hart would work the graveyard shift for a construction company. With that being said, let's get into the criminal side. That's his short little background that I'm just going to talk about. Okay, his little bio. You can kind of see how, not that it's excuses, but he did seem to have kind of a bit of a rough upbringing, not knowing your father, having the father figure in your life, pass away when you were young, having to be responsible for your siblings. Poverty. Poverty. You see it in other mass murderers or serial killers or free killers. Yeah, I mean, I see the same thing. But I also want to point out he had siblings who were raised the same way as him. Right. And like I said, I'm not using it as an excuse. Right, no. But it is still a choice. But his siblings, most, I don't know, I'm not going to assume they all lived. I mean, I don't know of any of his siblings that. Led the life that he did. Yes. Chose the path that he. Chose the same path. Chose, all right. So let's get into it, right? Okay. So on the Friday night of June 3rd, 1966, Hart didn't end up going into work that night at his job. He worked at Flint Steel Company in Tulsa. Instead, Hart abducted two young pregnant women, ages 18 and 19, from the parking lot of the Fond du Lait nightclub, located at 11th and Denver in downtown Tulsa. Sorry, excuse me. Does it say, because I, of course, know this background that he had, does it say how far along they were in their pregnancy? Okay. One source said that they were both in the early stages of their pregnancy. Okay. Another source said that one of them was six months into her pregnancy, and the other, I think, said it was four months for her. Okay. They both were married. However, one had actually just gotten a divorce from her husband, and the other one had just, was newly married, but had gotten into a fight with her husband, and so they were friends and decided that they were just going to kind of go out and have a little bit of a girl's night. Okay. And not, you know, not saying this or that, but they were just going out to kind of have a free night. Which they were entitled to do. Okay, well, I'll get into it in a minute. But the Fond du Lait nightclub was a place where you could, it said BYOB, and I'm sitting here going, bring your own boyfriend, bring your own boo. Oh, sure. You know what I mean? Like booze, right? Well, it's bring your own bottle. Bottle, technically, yeah. And so you would bring, I didn't know this. So you would, well, I mean, like, I knew what BYOB, but I didn't know this particular fact. Oh, okay. So during this time, remember, this is 1966. Yeah. So you would bring your own liquor, and then the bartender would open it for you and then mix you a drink with the bottle that you brought. And I think that I read that they had live music there, and it was just generally a place that you could go to meet up with people or just, you know, just hang out, have a good time. It's just a nightclub, you know. It's just a nightclub. Right. And you've got to remember, 1960s was a different time where women still smoked and had a cocktail if they wanted while they were pregnant. So it was just, that was the time. So I don't know their last names. I didn't look at their last names. But the women's names were Kathy and Marjorie. The two friends that were abducted, they were the two friends abducted by Hart. And they were actually leaving the Fond du Light nightclub in Tulsa, and it was around 2 o'clock in the morning. And when they were leaving the club, Kathy and Marjorie reached the car that Kathy had actually borrowed from her mother. And it was parked across the street. And they found or they saw another car that was parked next to them. And I'm sure they just didn't really even think anything of it. Right. So Kathy first unlocked the passenger side door for Marjorie for her to get in. And while she was doing that, Hart, who was actually in the car next to them. I've got my heart, like, beat. I know what happens. Right. My heart is just like, oh. And I'm kind of paraphrasing this. I'm not, like, going super in-depth. Like, the Shattered Justice book goes into, like, the preliminary hearing about this and everything. So if you need more information, go check out that book. But anyway, I'm trying to, like, not make it go overly long. But anyway, so Hart was in the car next to them. And he asks Marjorie, is it pretty lively in there? And, you know, Marjorie told him, oh, yeah, you know, you should go in there. And so while Marjorie is talking to Hart, Kathy is actually walking around the car to go to the driver's side to get in. And she unlocks it for herself. And as soon as the women were in the car, Kathy started it up. Well, Hart had, I guess, gotten out of his car. I don't know if he was in his car when he was talking to her and had the window down. But he had gotten out. And so when she started the car, he jerked Marjorie's door open. Oh, my gosh. That's so scary. Telling them he was going with them. And Marjorie tried to actually push him away. And had tried to, like, shut the door. You know what you say, going with me. But Hart ended up pulling a gun on them and told Marjorie to move over. Oh, my gosh. So Hart had them get in the trunk of the car. And the women said that they could hear him, like, rummaging around. And they thought that he was going through their purses. Hart eventually decides that they aren't going to take that car. They're going to go in his car. Oh, my gosh. So he then proceeds to, well, he then, like, forces them in the trunk of his car. And then they proceed to drive to a remote place in Mayes County. So here's a bit of kooky information. I don't want to call it a fact. It's just some kooky information. So during this, quote, quote, trip to the location where they would end up, Hart forced one or both of the women to ride in the trunk of the car. And both the victims wore eyeglasses. And this is where it gets weird. When one of the women would be riding in the trunk, the other would obviously be riding in the car sitting next to Hart. And here's where this kooky bit comes in. He would try on their eyeglasses and wear them to see if the prescription was right for him, like he couldn't see or something. And it's just, like, the weirdest thing. And you'll figure out that eyeglasses are a thing with him. So one source said that Hart eventually drove the women to Mayes County, deep in the woods, where he then, like, here's where this trigger warning comes in. He then raped and sodomized them. Oh, my gosh. Another source said that during the drive to Mayes County, he would, like, stop. And then he would release the women from the trunk one at a time and proceed to rape them. Oh, my God, and they're pregnant. They're pregnant. I mean, at this point, they probably have no idea where they're at because he's headed towards Mayes County. And it's dark. It's dark. So after reaching his destination, Hart makes them walk up some hills and through some brush and into some trees, where he then he bounds their hands with friction tape and rope. So he used the friction tape to blindfold them as well. Oh, my gosh. He put tape on their face. And one of them actually said that he didn't really do that great of a job, that she could still kind of see, like, under the tape. So when he was hurting, I will say hurting the other victim. Helping the other victim. Right. Like, she could not see everything but enough to know what he was doing. Right. And, anyway, he also tied ropes around their necks and their hands. He put a piece of rag in their mouth and then taped their mouth to keep the gag in. He then raped both women again and tied their feet with a rope and then left them there. Like, I think he told them, like, oh, I'll come back later. Right. Well, one of the victims was then able to free her hands. I think it said that they could hear him, like, walking away. And I think in the distance, like, in the distance they could tell that there was some water nearby. They could hear cars on a highway. And I think they said that they did hear the car start up. And so they waited about 10 to 15 minutes to make sure that he had actually left. He wasn't really coming back. Mm-hmm. And then one of the victims was able to free her hands, which she was then able to untie her feet, and then she was able to untie her friend. So together the women found their way back to the highway that was nearby where a car ended up picking them up. She said that they tried to flag, there was, like, a few cars that they tried to flag down because at this point it was, like, 7 o'clock in the morning. Oh, okay. It was, like, daylight. It was daylight, yeah. But nobody would stop. Wow. And then finally someone, a good Samaritan, finally stopped. Yeah. And the car that picked them up actually took them to the city marshal of Choteau's house. And I didn't write down his name. The marshal then called the sheriff of Mays County, and the sheriff met them at the marshal's house, the city marshal's house. And there the women were able to describe Hart, his car. One of them actually remembered a partial of his license plate. He did? I mean, I'm glad he was an idiot. I mean, you had the opportunity to take someone else's car. Right. And they said that one source that I had read said that they had been brutally beaten. But I don't think that's necessarily true. I think one of them had, like, a busted lip. And, of course, they had, like, bruises and stuff from, like, the ropes and stuff like that. And don't get me wrong, what they went through was horrible already. But I don't think they were brutally beaten like it was made to be. I thought I had heard somewhere that they speculated that he was leaving them for dead, like, leaving them that they were going to die, like, if that's what he. From what I gathered, I think he had every intention of coming back. You think, okay, probably, maybe to finish them off, do you think? Right. Okay. I mean, I don't know if it was whether to finish them off or keep doing what he was doing. Right. How long do you think they were going to survive out there? But I think it was just lucky that he was incompetent. Absolutely. I mean, that's what we, I think. So Gene Leroy Hart was picked up the next day in Pryor, Oklahoma, and confessed to the crimes. He didn't even go that far. No. Because isn't Pryor in Mays County? I believe so. Yeah. I think it's actually the county seat. Okay. I don't remember if that was or if Shoto was. I think Pryor is, but I could be wrong. I don't know. So he pled guilty to the charges of first-degree rape and kidnapping, and he was given 10 years jail time. And I did read once where it said that he got, for the three counts that he was charged with, each was 10 years. So while he was in prison, you know, he was now this convicted rapist. His wife divorced him, took their son away, and one source said that she even changed his name. And this was something that Hart apparently never got over, her changing his name. Oh. He spent his time at Oklahoma's Granite Reformatory and was considered a model prisoner. After 28 months, just a little over two years of incarceration, Hart was paroled in March of 1969, where he then returned to his mother's house in Locust Grove. As you can imagine, being a convicted rapist, Hart had a really hard time finding a job to support himself. And so, of course, Hart resorted to committing burglaries. So let's talk about that. Prior Creek is the county seat of Maine. Prior Creek. So June 1st, 1969, Hart breaks into the residence of Ronnie and Susan Furr. Now, I don't know if I'm saying that right. Furr. Anyway, okay. He broke in while they were sleeping. Oh. The break-in occurred in the early morning hours of June 1st. Hart removed the window screen, forced open the window, and climbed into the occupied apartment without awakening the Furrs. Oh, my gosh. Oh, I do not like that. Taken from the apartment were a purse with personal papers and a checkbook inside. The Furrs did not report the burglary to the police. I don't know why, but they didn't report it. So June 1st, 1969, later that same morning. Wow. After the Furr residence break-in, Hart tried to break into the apartment of Eugene Latham. The door to the apartment had been left unlocked. Hart entered the apartment taking a billfold. Mr. Latham didn't report the theft either, but that was because he thought that he may have simply just misplaced his wallet and didn't suspect it had been stolen. June 2nd, 1969, Jean Hart entered the apartment of Steven Stewart, also through an unlocked door. People, lock your doors. Lock your doors. Well, I met some people who responded back to me last week. I'm not going to say who they are because I don't want people to look them up who they are, leaving their keys in their cars. When you live in a big city like Tulsa or Oklahoma City, even more, so wherever you are at, lock your doors. Right. Jack wagons like this can't get in. Anyway, okay. What town does this take place in, his burglaries? Tulsa. Oh. Tulsa? I believe all of them are Tulsa. Oh my gosh. Yeah, y'all need to lock your doors in Tulsa for sure. June 2nd, 1969, Jean Hart entered the apartment of Steve Stewart, also through an unlocked door. Hart stole a white-handled paring knife as well as Stewart's billfold. Stewart's billfold was taken from a nightstand, get this, only six inches from Stewart's head while he was sleeping. Oh my gosh. I don't know what's more terrifying, the fact that he is gutsy, pardon my language, ballsy enough to break in while there are people there or if to know that he's breaking in. I don't know. I think I would be more terrified knowing that he broke in and I was present than I didn't know it. Because he could do anything. Absolutely anything. And it said he preferred to break in while it was occupied. I mean, I'm having flashbacks of like the Golden State Killer right now. Right. You know? Right. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. So this last one just like takes the cake. Okay. I can't even resist. June 7th, 1969. Hart breaks into the apartment of Tulsa police officer Heather Campbell. He's an idiot. Campbell had just finished her shift at 2 a.m. and was still half awake when she heard someone working on the lock on the apartment. She then saw a hand working, she saw a hand and an arm coming into the room past the door and it was moving towards her purse. One source said she took her pistol from the nightstand. Another said she pulled the pistol from under her pillow and ordered, regardless, she pulled the pistol. She pulled her pistol and ordered the person to stop. But they continued moving towards her purse. She's an idiot. Oh my gosh. She pulled back the hammer on the revolver and that sound caused Hart to pull back and leave the residence. Campbell called the police department right away. Two of her fellow officers quickly came to her apartment. And as they began discussing what had happened, all of them then hear the sound of another doorknob being jiggled up on the second floor of the complex. Hart was arrested with no resistance. Oh my gosh. To the two officers. His car was searched and later, his car was searched later and in the trunk was found Susan Furr's white straw purse. Inside her purse were Latham and Stewart's billfolds. Hart had regrets about pleading guilty during his first trial for the rapes and the kidnapping. And that, and that it said that he felt like it had ruined his life. Here's the thing. You pleading guilty did not ruin your life. Your actions is what ruined your life. You making the choice to kidnap and assault two women. Pregnant women. Yeah. Is what ruined your life. Not just women, which is awful anyway, but pregnant women. Pregnant women. Multiple assaults on them. And taking them out and leaving them. Essentially leaving them for death. Right. But leaving them out in the middle of nowhere. Or for a fate worse than death. Right. More of whatever he was doing. Yeah, more of whatever he had planned. No, that ruined your life, sir. So. Him pleading guilty for this. It made him have a deep distrust of the defense lawyers. Oh, and he, he decided that he would never plead guilty to anything ever again. Oh, no. So he would, he was, he would fight to make them prove that he was guilty. It said he was going to, whatever it was, he was going to fight to make them prove him guilty. So, and. No. So. In front full of wallets. Well, in spite of the DA offering Hart four 10 year terms that he could serve at the same time for all four robberies, which sounds like a pretty good deal. Would have been a plea deal. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Serving 40 years, you're only serving 10. He chose to go to four separate trials with four separate juries. Idiot. September 25th, 1969, convicted of Campbell burglary, October 21st, 1969, convicted of Stuart burglary, December 9th, 1969, convicted of the Latham burglary, January 20th, 1970, convicted of the first burglary. I was doing, saying burglary so well, and then it just kind of blow. Since heart had been released on parole for the prior rape and kidnapping charges, and then he committed these four burglaries while still on parole and was convicted of those. His new combined prison sentences now totaled more than 300 years in prison, 300 plus years in prison. This time, heart was sent to the big Mac, the Oklahoma state, Calister, Oklahoma. It breaks your heart though, because that's where he should have been. He should have been there all along. He should have been there. He never should have been paroled. Never should have ever gotten to step foot out of jail. He should still be there today. I don't know. He might be. No, no, he should still be there today. I know people born in the forties that are still alive. In the spring of 1973, while serving his sentence in the big Mac heart was temporarily moved to the maze County jail in connection with the post conviction relief hearing on the 1966 kidnapping and rape incident. And I think it was, um, heart was wanting to withdraw his guilty plea for the, for the 1966 crimes and have his conviction set aside. Well, that was thrown like that. Like, no, we're not even do that. Can you have, well, it didn't happen. Okay. So there is some more conflicting information. One source said that just days after arriving at the maze County jail, heart, and a fellow inmate Larry dry escape from the jail by sawing through the bars on their cell. And Larry dry collaborates that the saw blade was allegedly smuggled in by heart's mother, LMA. Allegedly. It's not proven, but it's suspected. Another source said that heart and dry just escaped, but didn't say how, but they were able to get out of the jail. Another source said that heart and dry just escaped, but didn't say how either way, both heart and dry escaped. And 11 days later were caught when a fireman noticed smoke coming out of a window of an abandoned house. The firemen assumed the house was on fire, right? But what actually was happening was an ill-fated attempt to make coffee using a trashed coffee pot, heart and dry were returned. Yeah. Heart and dry were returned to the maze County jail. One source said that a friend convinced heart to turn himself in. I don't know if that was the case or whatever, but they ended up back in, back in jail. Um, I like how one source said this, it said that heart proved allergic to jail and on September 16th, 1973, he and his good old cellmate, Larry dry escaped once again from jail. There's still a maze County jail. Right? Yes. So in the spring, there's nothing to get mad about. You can't get mad about it anymore. And the spring of 1973, they escaped one source that it was made once that it was April. So that's why I just said spring for like April 30th, May 1st, something like that. So they escaped. We're out for 11 days, returned back to prison. And then September of that same year, got out again. He, they both escape again. So one source said that this was when an unknown accomplice smuggled in a hack saw, which he then used on the bars of his cell. So I don't know if it was this point when they first escaped or second escape. Right. I don't know which one at some point they sawed some, one or the other. There was a saw that was used to solve the bars, not possibly both. Right. Um, another source said that heart and dry escaped while being left unattended out of lockup. Uh, this source also said that heart and dry split when they escaped. So one went one way, one with the other dry was caught fairly quickly, right? Heart hiding in the area was able to stay free. Again. He knew this area. Well, having grown up there, he hid part of the time in the caves, um, that were around, which he was very familiar with. Now remember, this area is heavily populated with members of the Cherokee nation. It is speculated. I want to reiterate that speculated that heart was aided, uh, by the fact that many of the Cherokees in the area didn't trust the white man's law, nor Sheriff Weber, who I think you mentioned previously, he's the lead Sheriff on the scout case. With that being said, some offered assistance to heart, enabling him to avoid capture. So from time to time, someone would in May's County would spot heart and weavers inability to catch heart became this kind of running joke among the locals. Four years later, heart is still free and it is now June, 1977 and three girl scouts were dead. Heart's record and proximity to the crime made him a prime suspect, but to many people, it started to seem that weaver had already kind of had this preconceived, um, guilty verdict and that he was out to convict heart of the, of the crimes, regardless of whatever the evidence would come to say. Patrolman Paul Smith was convinced that there was more to the story and a lot more of that anyone knew. And yet he stayed quiet about it. He was going to just wait it out and buy this time and just see what might unfold. Um, he did everything he could and the information that he had given to the OSB. I had obviously been ignored and that is where we're going to stop. And we're next week. We'll talk about the manhunt and probably the trial maybe. Yeah. So, um, this is just, this case is just so big. It's, there's just so many facets to it. Right. Um, it's so, it makes you so angry because he should never have been out. I'm not, he should never have been out of jail in the first place. Why he ever, there's a part of me that's like, I understand that they were going to try to retry him for that 1966 kidnapping and rape, but there's no reason why he couldn't have stayed in the Callister and then shipped to Tulsa. Why was he, I mean, I guess it did, they did find him in Mays County, so it was probably reported, but there's no reason why they couldn't have shipped him the day of right now or the night before the trial. He didn't need to be staying there. Well, and we talk, we talk about him because it's important to see, um, all aspects of him. If that makes sense. Like, yeah, he, you know, the small community sees him as this good old boy. Right. Right. Athlete person, you know, and then, but on the other hand, he raped two pregnant women. He sodomized them. He left them there. He left them guilty. Yeah. He left them there. Like he was going to come back and do it all over again or kill them. Like you said. And, um, it just, I don't want to be like, oh, shoulda, woulda, coulda, but if he hadn't ever been convicted, those girls would still be here. They'd be alive. They would still be alive. Right. So it's just, and you see, I mean, he has all the telltale signs of it. And, um, how he escalated. And then of course he went to jail for a little bit. And he kind of deescalated, but you could see the desperation in him because now nobody's hiring him to work. And then he's going to blame everybody else for his problems, except for him who made the choice to stop at that nightclub. And just like, I think that, I mean, obviously he was on the run for a while. Yeah. Before 1977. And it's just, I don't know. It's infuriating. There's a part. And I mean, I know, I know it only gets worse. I know it only gets worse. Well, I just find it interesting that, um, you know, where were these? Cause you know, he, when he got released the first time, he went back to his mother's house. Cause his wife divorced him. Right. So he went back to his mother's house who was still in Locust Grove. So if everyone thought he was going to jail, why didn't you hire him? Why didn't you give him a job? Yeah. Why did he have to go back to Tulsa? And. So it's just, um, really sad. Right. Because, um, what could have been prevented. But, you know, and for almost 50 years, they, you know, claimed that he didn't have a job. Right. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,