The Standard Podcast - Episode 1: Richard Collier

The Wilmington Standard Podcast features Will Tampel discussing the rapid growth in New Hanover County with guest Richard Collier. They talk about city development, affordable housing, and traffic issues. Collier reflects on his city council campaign and addresses the need for diverse housing options and infrastructure improvements to manage growth effectively. The discussion emphasizes the importance of balancing quality housing with affordability and addressing transportation challenges. Collier suggests proactive measures for development projects to include necessary road improvements upfront to alleviate traffic congestion. The conversation highlights the complex issues surrounding housing affordability and urban development in Wilmington. Welcome to the Wilmington Standard Podcast, I'm Will Tampel. New Hanover County is one of the smallest counties in the state of North Carolina, but it is the one that is experiencing a tremendous amount of growth. Wilmington is a destination city for many across North Carolina. I'm here to talk about that and more is my very special guest, Mr. Richard Collier. Thank you, Will. I appreciate that. I'm not sure how I'm a special, but thank you very much. Well, you are fresh off the campaign trail with city council, and you are still relatively sane. I'm still sane. Tell us a little bit about what you were experiencing as you were going through all of that. You hear from talking to folks in the area, or within the city at least, there's a lot of angst about how the city is moving forward and how development is being handled or not handled, roadway issues, traffic issues, those kinds of things. You hear a lot of that. You hear a lot about it. Are there too many apartments? Are they good? Are they bad? What's affordable housing? What's not? A lot of questions. Yeah. A lot of questions. Yeah. What do you think you could have done differently? I think my campaign ran very well. I think your campaign was great. I think we were able to get my name out in a lot of places. I'm not sure that the wins of a nonpartisan race were in our favor on that Tuesday. What am I disappointed with? I wanted 10,000 votes. That was my goal to myself. I did not get that. That's my only disappointment. Beyond that, the three ladies that will get their seats in December, I wish them all the best. What do you think? All of us got to know each other very well. I am completely in support of those three ladies. I would watch you out there on the campaign trail, especially on election days and everything else, where there were times when you had all the candidates in one spot. I would watch all of you get together and talk about things. Oh, yes. It was not really an acrimonious campaign, at least not out in the open. Maybe there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. I don't think so. I really don't. I think what you saw us doing in public was what we did all of the time. We always were very cordial to each other. I don't think any of us did any negative ads or negative discussions about the other candidates. I think we were all very, very cordial in the way we handled it. For the first time in several years, Wilmington does not have a single Republican on council. Correct. What things do you think we need to keep an eye on? The things we need to keep an eye on, if there begins to be discussions of rent control, if there begins to be discussions on how the local government is going to be more involved in what is deemed affordable housing, those kinds of things. That's not truly the local government's responsibility. We should be there to aid it and we should be there to help with it. My hope is that they will focus on things in the code that may be modified to increase what affordable housing characteristics there are. I also hope that they are going to look into a lot of the other issues that were heard during the campaign. The campaign was not only circled around affordability. There were other issues that are out there, too, that are really important to folks. I hope that the council picks some of those up, too. What do you think the biggest issue was for the Democrats? Do you think it was affordable housing? I do. Okay. I do. And that they got a lot more Democrats to come vote. They said massively. I do believe that the affordability, it is a big issue right now. It's a huge issue nationwide. It's not just here in Wilmington. I think that is what pushed everything over the top. What is the answer to affordable housing? It's not just building cheap housing. No, it's not. Because building cheap housing will put us into a situation that we are already rectifying today. Affordable housing needs to be built in the same manner that it's built everywhere, the same quality. We should be able to have multifamily developments that have income levels or housing levels spread out. Even to me, the 10% numbers are odd because now you can't define where the 10% can be and you can't change the housing units. It just needs to be, we need to work in how is it affordable for each person. And that's not the same for everybody. We talk about an 80% of the average median income or 60% or 30%. The flip side to all that is the folks that live near any project that's coming, that they talk about that in that way. Then they have a fear of it being something that's going to create crime in their area or create something that will drive down their property values. So how do you solve affordable housing? I think there were some really good things that were brought up during the campaign itself. Maybe the North Carolina having a housing fund in Wilmington that can help and it be set up particularly for affordability. But we've got to decide what that is. We use workforce housing as a word. We use affordable housing as a word. Then it goes down into what is public housing. And everyone always goes to what is public. Affordable means three different things. Three completely different things. And everyone's trying to define them differently but they're not heard differently. They're all hearing the same thing. The big question then becomes if you look at a place like New York City, now Wilmington is not a New York City. It never will be. However, property values in New York City and housing and affordability in New York City is never going to go down. It just isn't. Is Wilmington ever going to get to that point where there's just nothing we can do about housing prices and it's just going to be expensive to live here? Are there going to be people coming in from outside counties or what are we thinking? The city itself and New Hanover but the city in particular, this is a small geographic area. Land prices probably won't go down. That's going to be the biggest basis in the cost of housing one way or the other. So if land prices stay either where they are or continue to rise as everyone wants things to do for their own personal portfolios, I'm not sure that it won't get to a situation of where you just ... It's not that you can't. We can always do something but it needs something like the Starway apartments that are on Carolina Beach Road. They are a true mix of incomes in an apartment community. I think we need to determine how we're going to get some single family housing in, whether it's townhouses or duplexes or if it's physical single family, one house or a lot. We've got to be able to get some of that in because it can't all be apartments. I think that's what everyone sees is there's a lot of apartments, too many apartments they say. There's a developer out of our way who started with single family houses and they had bought this whole big area and they put up signs that said, single family houses starting at $300,000. It turns out that $300,000 got them a cement pad. Correct. If you really wanted to actually live in something, you had to pay double that. Is that the direction things are going to continue to go? That's correct. Right now when you start looking at what is a starter home, a starter home if you can find it at $300,000 is really good. It's hard for the single family builders, the folks building those homes, to build it down at a $180,000, a $150,000. It's just the cost of the materials are now that much higher, but again the cost of the land is where the driving force is. Folks aren't going to build, if they build crappy, not very good housing, are cutting corners or trying to do things less expensive, it's just not going to have a quality house and then that's going to be equally as bad as someone needing to be able to afford a $300,000 mortgage or more. I did see where the government is now looking at discussing 50-year notes rather than 30-year notes. Yes. Dropping the interest on mortgages again, maybe getting it down to a 3% kind of a number, which starts to get more folks involved and get more folks qualified for loans. But it's still not going to change that number of $300,000. Now you're pushing it out 20 more years or you're paying less in interest, but it's the same situation. To go along with all that, the more people you put here, George Judson was literally born two years ago. If you follow Victor Judson, he was born two years ago. We are not flying around in cars, which means that we have to have a surface level infrastructure. Correct. Unless you start building multi-layer highways in downtown, what are you going to do? How are we going to handle that? Now prefacing all that is that we have to keep all this in perspective. Sometimes it takes 18 minutes to do an 11-minute trip. Sometimes we are going to keep things in mind, but what are we going to do about all that? Everything is going to cost money. To resolve things that have been building over years, there's no one thing that we're going to do to fix, particularly the roads. The things that we can do now are get in front of it. As developments start to come in play, can you have them make sure they're putting their roadway improvements in before they start building and building the homes or building the commercial or whatever the case is? Can we put that on the front end instead of letting it lag to the back end? That will start to at least offset the traffic that is ... That would mitigate the traffic from their development. It doesn't solve everything, but it starts to ... You're starting somewhere. That's going to need to be pushed. No one's going to like it. It's going to cost money on the front end that no one wants to put out. Whether everyone wants to believe it or not, when Mayfair was built, all of the roadway improvements were done at the first of it. At the time, DOT also had plans to be widening the military cutoff road. They were all working together. It was a construction disaster for folks, but the roadway infrastructure was put in place ahead of Mayfair opening because it was at the time and may still be the largest retail place in our city, short of the mall itself. That was a start of that. You get it in front of that. River Lights did the same thing when it was done, but that's not the norm. It's normally the other way. You have the approval from NCDOT and the Wilmington Metropolitan Planning Organization for the roadway improvements. They're still built. They might be built at the end of the first phase. They might be built at ... You might have one piece in the phase one, and then if there's three phases, you may not get it all until later. We've got to accelerate that path. When a developer puts in a new division, the developer is responsible for all the roads and everything else in that division up to the point where it meets the actual roads, and then that has to be worked out with DOT DOT. Then after that, they have to work out a plan on how to transfer all that over to the local government for maintenance. Correct. Now, as I've gotten to know you through this campaign, you're one of the people who helped design traffic patterns. You're the one to add ... You've shown me some photographs and some things. That ain't easy to do. No, it's not. I mean, it's not easy to do, no. But it's what I do for a living. That's what others like me do for a living, which is why we tend to be involved in the city and the county governments, or even in the DOTs, just because that is what our background and expertise is. It's not always ... There's not always a straight line to the answer. It sounds like there should be, and everybody can tell me when they ask me, give me their opinion, exactly how it should be done. A lot of times, the common sense way is usually the right way to go. But it does take ... There's a lot that goes into it. The other part of the campaign you asked me earlier is just that. There are folks that do not ... Folks are not uneducated. I don't mean that. But to understand what a development needs or what a new roadway ... I mean, there's a public meeting coming up for the extension of Independence Boulevard, which I fully support going from Bramble Parkway, where it technically ends, all the way to Martin Luther King, because we need that cross-town corridor. We need another way for folks to move. But it all takes time, and it takes money. You can't say everybody supports it, and it's going to be done tomorrow. It's a multi-year kind of thing. What's the biggest time suck? Is it the planning out of it all, or is it the construction? Sometimes it seems like roads take forever to get done. The planning of it is a part of it. The approvals are a huge part of it, whether you're doing it on behalf of the city, that DOT is approving or the city is approving. If you're doing it directly for the DOT, the approval processes are very extensive. Then you go to construction. When you're doing it as a public entity, the bidding laws are different, so that takes longer. The contractual things take longer. I mean, everything, just the red tape that gets in it, if we start to take away or cut down on some of the red tape, it will start to accelerate things. Construction is by far the longest portion, almost in all cases. It's always the most. The trades are having a hard time everywhere. Is that the same thing with road construction guys? Yeah. They're all, the asphalt prices continue to rise. I mean, the cost of oil goes up, so the cost of asphalt goes up. Concrete's in the same situation. Finding good craftsmen to do the work is- You don't think about craftsmen with road, but the guys that can form, put the forms up to pull the concrete for a curving gutter, for example. I mean, there are specific requirements for that, but I couldn't do it. I can tell them what it's supposed to be, but I couldn't make it look like that. That's tough work. If you're out there on a 100-degree day and you're working with asphalt that will just burn your arm out, that's tough work. Tough work, very tough work. And it's the same, vice versa, even if it's cold and you're doing it, it's still being out in the elements all day for those guys to work hard. Then you've got to work even quicker because it's going to set up quicker. Wow. What is your funniest story from the campaign? Because you probably ran into a whole bunch of situations that there's probably some good things and bad things. You know, funny stories to me, some of it were the folks that I knew personally and had known for a long time, the things that they would say to me of why they may or may not vote. And I was really taken aback because a lot of them had to do with something on the federal level that had nothing to do with, had nothing to do with, has no bearing on what happens to us day-to-day for that particular issue. Those were the funny, maybe not funniest, it was probably the most eye-opening things that I saw. In terms of funny, I mean, we all just had a good time. We all had a good time doing the campaign. I've told you before, I enjoyed it. I did like it. You were great at it. I tried. It took a while. You've got to get yourself going because it's a different thing. It's a very different thing. Carolina Journal came out last week with a relatively bad report on Republicans' chances next year. Now, just like every other poll that's done in the snapshot, and it was done at the height of the shutdown, at the height of the elections, what do you think Republicans need to do to win at all races next year? We've got several local races. We've got states. What do you think Republicans have to do to get over all this? Locally, you've got to knock on everybody's door. You've got to go see everyone. It doesn't matter who it is or what their party affiliation is, quite honestly, in my opinion. I think you need to go and meet everybody where they are and start to expand what our normal thought processes are. I think the Republican Party did an excellent job in our race this year. They supported us completely. I have no issues with that at all or how things were done. The one thing that was always said to me was knocking on the doors is probably the best you can do. I agree with that. The light finally came on in my mind at some point, and I decided that was a really good thing to do. I think that's going to have to happen. I think we as Republicans, we need to make sure that we're truly focused on the issues that everyone's asking about. It may not be the ones we all want to talk about, but it's the ones that you need to talk about. Of course, the one lady that asked me what my decision was on abortion, that may have been the oddest one I had because I'm thinking, really? There's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can do. You just smile and say, I'm sorry. I'll tell you, the campaign was fun. It was tiring, but it was fun. What's next? What's next? I'll be leaving today to go to Charleston to get a little more work for my company. It's continuing down that path. I want to continue in the public service arena in some way. I don't know what that will be right now. Right now, because of your engineering position, you are still serving the public. You're not doing that as an elected official, but you're still engaged in everything that's going on. I am. I'm still on the planning commission for the city and will continue to be on that as long as that will happen. I love doing it. I've done it for a long, long time. Again, that's another one of those places that you need background and expertise to be able to actually make sure that the things that you're reviewing or the cases coming before you are qualified. Do they meet the criteria or do they not? Not everyone can sit down and just all of a sudden do that. You know, I find that interesting. We heard it over and over again during the campaign. We don't want another realtor on there. You're not a realtor, but you're an engineer that works with the development. I do work with them, yes. But good grief. If you're going to talk about development, you really need somebody who knows what they're doing. We just failed to make that connection. Yeah, that connection I don't think will ever be made in as many ways as I tried to discuss it over the last year. I got a little bit of a pass because I am an engineer and I don't work for a developer. I'm certainly not a realtor. But there's a perception in our area and probably all over the country that developers are bad. Anybody that's in real estate is bad because they're only out to line their own pockets. I'm not sure that the doctors aren't trying to make money on their profession or the attorneys or the school teachers. That is what you're doing it for. Profit is not a four-letter word. We all want to be able to have our livelihood. I think I agree with folks. There are good developers and bad developers. Yes, there are. There's no doubt about it. People build good things and they build bad things. What I tried to put forward in my campaign was I can recognize those things. I can help guide away from some of the ... Go for the good developments rather than the poor developments. Did you see that news article about this developer who basically clear-cut a 100-acre place for a climate conference? No, I did not see that. I did not see that. I would say that's a bad developer. That's probably a bad developer. You're also looking at ... When things are discussed like that in a snapshot, it's hard to fathom. You look at a Walmart or let's not even get a Walmart, Amazon. Everybody in this town gets an Amazon package on their door. There's a huge Amazon development going in town that's going to be ... Are we talking an Amazon distributor? Yes. Really? Not on 421. It's a large, large building. There is not a possibility that you save a tree under that building. That building is well larger than several Walmarts, but it's a needed thing. How do you mitigate those things? What are the rules and regulations that now Amazon as a company then has to do to help the community? What are the things they're going to be able to give back if they're taking some environmental items, trees in particular, away? What are they going to do to help? That's the kind of stuff we've got to focus on rather than just saying, well, they took all the trees down. They'll also be mad the next day if they're not getting their two-day shipping out of Amazon. Yeah, exactly. Everyone has an opinion. Everyone has a voice, and I think they should use it. But in certain circles, it's like I don't go into my doctor's office, and the first thing I do is tell him what he needs to do for me. I'm there. I need his opinion. I need his professionalism. That's what I think the folks on the council or on the county commission and the senate, any of those, they need the professionalism that goes along with it to be able to make the hard decisions that other folks don't want to make. I personally think they should have a Buc-ee's someplace. Talk about a developer that brings in a whole bunch of jobs and things like that. Plus, they've got really good food. I would be hard-pressed to help support you on a Buc-ee's just because I think that you're correct. They are a great company. They do bring in a lot of people. They sell a lot of things. The crowd in there, that to me is too much. It's too much. It's too much. But I do think Buc-ee's, and because our company works in multiple states, and Texas is one of them where it started, I have done some research on them, and they are a very good company that gives back. I always do research on Buc-ee's when I'm traveling. Where they are? Well, I check out their food court and all that stuff. What are your plans for Thanksgiving and Christmas? Thanksgiving is family. It is purely family. Christmas will be the same way. It will most likely stay local. My wife and I and our kids have a nice vacation. You've got a great family, and you've got some shirts that you could probably stuff into. Yes. Every one of them is going to get a shirt. Everybody is getting another shirt. Outstanding. Richard Collier, thanks for joining us. Thank you. It's been great getting to know you over these last couple of months, and I look forward to whatever you're doing. I appreciate that. Hopefully everything continues. Things happen the way they're supposed to, so we'll continue moving forward. This won't be the last time that we'll have you on. Whenever we have an engineering problem and we start putting the Buc-ee's in, we'll have you back up, and I'm looking forward to it. All right. Thank you. Appreciate you having me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.