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Gabrielle Siraj, the new director of Whipple Observatory, plans a renaissance for the site, focusing on both science and public outreach. They aim to open up the observatory to new institutions for research and revenue generation. Initiatives include selling telescope nights, hosting star parties, offering site tours, and partnering with local resorts for astronomy programs. The changes aim to transform the site into an astro-tourism destination while respecting the dark sky community. Hey everybody, I'm Guy Epsley. Welcome to Around the Cracker Barrel, brought to you by La Fasada at Green Valley. La Fasada at Green Valley is all about your lifestyle and your life plan. Choose your next home from a variety of apartments, spacious garden homes, or freestanding park center homes. Coming to you live from Fasada Java, our subject today, the Whipple Observatory, our guest, Amy Oliver, Head of Education and Public Outreach. Good morning, Amy. Good morning, Guy. It's so great to be back. It's great to have you here, and you've brought a guest. I did bring a guest. I have really exciting news today. We have a new director at Whipple Observatory. Her name is Gabrielle Siraj, and she's along for the show today. Very good, and welcome, Gabrielle. Great to have you here. Thank you. I'm very excited to be here. Now, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to lead the Whipple Observatory? Absolutely. I have been at many southwest observatories over my career. I have 20 observation observatory years under my belt. I began my journey into telescopes in west Texas at the Hobby Everly Telescope at McDonald Observatory. Then I was at the Apache Point Observatory in southern New Mexico in the Sacramento Mountains. Then I was at CHEC in Hawaii, and then I also was a mission director at SOFIA, which was the Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy, which is a telescope on a plane, and we launched out of California and New Zealand. Then now I'm at Whipple, so Whipple is my fifth observatory. Wow. You've been to so many places, and have you been able to learn different things at each one? They were all optical, but yes, I served different roles in each one. I was telescope operator, instrument operator, mission specialist, and on SOFIA I was a mission director, which meant I was running the missions at night while we were flying. Oh, really? Yes. Okay. Now tell us a little bit about what it's been like to move from Colorado to the Arizona desert to work for the Smithsonian. Well, I'm very happy to be a part of Whipple and the Smithsonian, but as you can imagine, the temperature shock going from Colorado to Arizona is really something. I came here on and off over the last four months, but permanently here at the end of October, and because of the temperatures that are happening right now in Arizona, I feel like it should be Halloween. I think I missed a few, like maybe a month of temperature change there, and I haven't acclimated that I can't believe it's going to be Christmas. Isn't that the thing? It's really hard to believe. You say that, but don't jinx us. Yeah, and this week has been some of the most unbelievable, beautiful weather that we've had in a while. Now, we've heard that you're planning a renaissance for Whipple Observatory. What does that mean? Well, sadly, a lot of folks, I think even in the Tucson area, don't know about Whipple. Whipple has kind of been a sleepy site over the last, you know, 50 years, honestly. A lot of folks don't know about it. It has not really had a large visibility in the community and also not a really developed visitor center and science center. Obviously, Amy has taken strides in that direction, but I'm here to kick it up a notch. So when I say renaissance, I mean this both in terms of science but in terms of public outreach. So in terms of science, we have lots of different telescopes on the mountain. We have the MMT, of course, which is a 6.5-meter diameter primary, which is 14th or 15th largest in the world, very big, very important, still considered big glass. But we also have three-meter class-size telescopes, and they are still churning out the science. But up until now, our site, in terms of science, has been limited to Smithsonian and University of Arizona scientists, and we are looking to open it up to new institutions and new instrumentation. Wow. Now what's that going to look like? So we are talking about selling nights on both the Ridge telescopes and the MMT in terms of the instrumentation that we already have present. But on the Ridge, we would also entertain new instruments, meaning new cameras, new developments that other institutions may be working on, and they don't have a place for that to be yet. We are entertaining having them be a part. A lot of telescopes are part of a consortium, and lots of different universities pay in to get some number of nights. And basically, we've kind of been locked down to only the Smithsonian, and now we're opening up to other institutions. So I heard you correctly when you said selling nights. Selling nights. So, okay, my guess is this is going to bring in money for the Whipple. That's right. And how would that money be used? So we are a federal facility, so federal funds are our foundation. But we, as probably all of your listeners would know, federal funding is very constrained right now in lots of ways, and in particular in science. So we would love to expand our – it's called opening your skies, basically, opening your skies to new institutions, and then that would generate revenue that we can reinvest into our site, hire new people, have more support in terms of instrumentation, maintenance, science, in ways that some of our funding is not able to bridge the gap anymore. How many people do you have now, and what are their jobs? We have about 12 people right now, and most of those folks are all maintenance or support the motor pool or electricians, safety officers. We only have three observers that are part of Whipple right now that support our nights, and it really should be like five. So we would really like more science staff. That's what we're really lacking. I think COVID did a real number on staffing, and so that's one of my big efforts is to increase our staffing. So that's on the science side. The other part of the renaissance has to do with our outreach. So we want to start having star parties. We apparently used to have star parties long ago, and I think they got shut down. Certainly COVID would do that, but maybe even before that. And what does that look like? That means at some point we would like to have star parties at our base camp, have folks come out at the beginning of the night. We'll have small telescopes set up to look at some exciting, fun, maybe local targets and have like an astronomer talk us through some kind of presentation for the evening. So this would be a ticketed event that the community can be a part of. We also are going to be offering site tours. So we'll have tours. This would be during the day that would get to tour up in the site. And a lot of folks, if they have been out to Maple Observatory, have probably only been to base camp and maybe have been there when the visitor center is open. So there's a lot that the public hasn't seen yet, I think. Certainly there's access up the mountain is restricted. So this would be a ticketed event that would take folks up the mountain to tour all of the telescopes, the dorm, and MMT. Now, Amy, since you're Director of Outreach, would you like to add to what she said? Yeah. So a lot of members of the Green Valley community have had that opportunity to go up our mountain at some juncture in the past, maybe five, six, seven, eight years ago. But as you know, we've had a lot of construction on that site, plus the shutdown for the pandemic and then a couple of government shutdowns. Within all of that, that just restricts our ability to take the public up the mountain. We have been re-envisioning our tour program to make it much more exciting. I wish I had an exact date for you today. I always wish that I did. But we have already put the order in for the new vehicles, and so that's a really exciting thing to be able to share. So we are making a lot of forward movement. I give Gabrielle all the credit for helping us get that pushed through. What kind of vehicles? Now, you took me up the mountain. I'm just wondering what kind of vehicles you would be transporting people in. So we're switching. Anyone who's been on the tour in the far past knows there was a big, huge bus. And that is not the most comfortable ride. I don't know if you ever had the opportunity to do that, but the road and the bus did not go together like peas and carrots. So I guess I should have said like brama, lama, ding, dong. People would understand that better. Okay. So we are switching to smaller 15-passenger vans that will ride better on the road. And then that helps us to also create a smaller, more curated experience as well. So you're not with 30 people. You're just with 14 other people. When I went up, I thought the road itself, it kind of surprised me how good it was. We take very good care of our road. Even though we are in the National Forest System, we grade the road ourselves. And since our motor pool director does not like changing the shocks on vehicles every month of his life, we grade the road regularly so that he does not have to do that. It's been a few months since I've seen you, and every time you remind me so quickly of your humor, your dry humor. Now, I'm wondering, Gabrielle, about how do the changes that you're going to be implementing affect your neighbors? That's a great question. So we're basically moving, shifting the paradigm from kind of a closed science site to a real astro-tourism destination. So I have been making inroads with the local resorts, developing partnerships to develop tours and to develop different programs. In one case, they might want to even offer astronomy classes that we could be a part of, sunset tours like we're already kind of alluding to. And basically all of the local resorts, I want to develop a partnership that not only gives them more things to offer to their clients, but also we have a dark sky community that we want to ensure. I'm sure Amy can tell us more about that. I always can. All of your listeners always want to know the status of the Outdoor Lighting Code in Tucson and Pima County. That's still moving right along. So we just closed, for anyone listening who does not know, in addition to working for Whipple Observatory, I also work for this community as the chair of the Pima County and Tucson City Outdoor Lighting Code Committee. And we just closed a major public comment period. We've made it through all of those comments. We're getting ready to do another draft of that code, and then we'll go out to public comment again in probably February for 60 days. And so we'll actually be looking at an update to that code for the first time since 2012 in 2027. So it'll actually enact in 2027. And so that's happening. We're always thinking about how do we protect your dark skies so that when you step out of your house here in Green Valley, you have the opportunity to still see stars. One thing that always hits me when I drive up I-10 to Phoenix is I'm hit with those bright light billboards. I think the first one may be at the casinos that you hit. And are you going to make sure that those don't come to this area? Yeah, those are not allowed on the freeway here in the Tucson area or near Green Valley because they are against our code. They're not just a violation of the lighting code. They're also a violation of the sign code. And so they're not allowed under multiple codes. And Phoenix Santa Rita, I want to give a shout-out to them. They are heavily involved in making sure that it remains that way. And so that's less about the observatory and more about Phoenix Santa Rita and the Sierra Club and those kinds of groups are really taking care of that and doing really great work on that. Very good. Today on Around the Cracker Barrel, we're talking about the Whipple Observatory with its new director, Gabriel Sarraj, and Amy Oliver, who is the head of education and public outreach for the observatory. Our conversation will continue after this. With so many things changing, it's good to know that La Posada is here for you today and for your future. Don't wait. Now is the perfect time to plan your future with a secure and enjoyable lifestyle at La Posada at Green Valley. Our nationally accredited continuing care community features maintenance-free homes and apartments, social events, fabulous dining, and a staff dedicated to your full well-being. Over 600 employees and 750 residents of La Posada make up a wonderful 100-plus acre small town. Your La Posada resident is just steps away from walking paths, on-property parks, an indoor swimming pool in the health center, and friends galore. Experience the nonprofit difference. To learn more, visit LaPosadaCommunities.org or call us at 520-648-8131. And we are back with the new director of the Whipple Observatory, Gabrielle Serraj, and Amy Oliver, who is the head of education and public outreach for the observatory. Gabrielle, talk to us about how Whipple compares to other big observatories. Yeah, so there are several in the southwest. Southwest is really one of the best places to build observatories for our weather, and there are many different mountains in the area. So MMT is at 8,000 feet. And when you say MMT, that means? It used to be a multiple mirror telescope. It used to be the multiple mirror telescope, and they changed it in the 90s, and it actually only has one single primary, but we still call it the MMT. That's because names take. Yes, hard to change. Okay. Maybe you could call it the monumental mirror. Yes, yes, that would be good. It is one thing that a lot of folks in Green Valley and Tucson can see. It is the little marshmallow on the top of the mountain, and if you look up there on the top of Mount Hopkins, you can see a little square of white. That is MMT. And when I take pictures in this area, the landscape, I find that in so many of my shots. Exactly. It's all pervasive, and if you know it's there, it's something that you can always look at and enjoy, but there are so many people in the area that don't even know that it's there. Isn't that the truth? Right. They need to look up. Exactly, which is a big part of what we need to change. So the MMT is a 6.5-meter primary, as I was saying before. Apache Point, which is in southern New Mexico, is 3.5 meters, which is another place where I've been. So it's a little bit close to half the size. So MMT is quite large relative to some of the other telescopes in the area. Kitt Peak is one that everybody knows about and is also right around the corner. They have put a lot of effort into being known, and basically Whipple has kind of flown under the radar relative to Kitt Peak, but really we are also a substantial observatory site in the area. The MMT is our jewel in the crown, but we also on the ridge have several other meter-class telescopes that are doing science every night, and there are some arrays. The Gamma Ray Array, actually, I need a couple of words in there, that's at Base Camp. If you come to the Visitor Center, you can see these glorious big telescopes that are right in our parking lot, and that is a very unique telescope array that we have in the area that nobody else has. That's something that we can claim fame on. And in terms of the site compared to a lot of the places around here, the accessibility, being so close to Tucson, that is almost unheard of. Apache Point is up in the Sacramento Mountains, nowhere near any big cities. El Paso, I guess, is maybe two hours away. And McDonald Observatory in West Texas is also kind of out in the middle of nowhere, as you can imagine, most of the time, to maintain those dark skies. So it's very unusual to be so close to a big city. We've got all of these observatories that you just mentioned, and then we've got the microscopes, or what's the term for it, up in space. Yeah, we still have lots of observatories, telescopes in space. Which brings up the question of how much can you do down here on the ground compared to those telescopes that are way up and getting such glorious shots? So that's a good question. Of course, location, location, location. And so if you're in space, you don't have the atmosphere to fight with. And why would that be a problem? In terms of optics, the atmosphere moves around a lot, has varying layers of humidity, and makes your pictures blurry. Yeah. So in that regard, ground-based observing you would think would be handicapped, and it is to some degree. But the advantage that our site has in particular over Hubble or James Webb is time. We have time on our side. We can sit on an object and go back to that same object for weeks, months. You can't get that kind of time on any of these space-based big glass. You just can't. The time is too valuable to sit on something and waste that time, which is not really a waste, but it's such a high-demand experience that you just can't sit on something. There is something to be said for a telescope that is just sitting in one place. Not just sitting on it, but I also mean sitting on an object, watching a single target for an extended period. So a program can get weeks, months of data. Amy, I sense you wanted to say something. Yeah. I mean, so it's about that. There's also other challenges in space too, right? Something breaks, it's hard to fix. Yeah. If it breaks, you're not fixing it. Hubble, there was that man who was the Hubble repairman, and they had to fax him or send him the information to print a screwdriver in space one time when he was up there. But now at this juncture, you're not fixing Hubble anymore. And James Webb is so far away that if something were to happen to the James Webb Space Telescope, that mission has ended because it cannot be fixed. There is no way to get to it to fix it. And they're very expensive, so we have spent an extraordinary amount of money to send them up into space. And then if they break, what do we have to show for that? And so ground-based telescopes like Whipple, we've been here for almost 60 years already, and we're still going strong. Our people have a ton of ingenuity, and we fix things all the time, and we find new ways to fix old problems consistently to keep it running and stay at the cutting edge of science. Do you know the one picture from this last year that I saw that knocked my socks off was from the rover on Mars and the panning shot of the stars at noon? I just almost gasped when I saw that. You know what's really interesting about that? Even though Mars has less atmosphere, I want you to think back really far in time to Aristotle, right? Philosopher. When he was stepping outside, that was essentially what he was seeing. There was no air pollution. There was no light pollution. So the atmosphere was completely clear, and it was mostly still. And so that's the kind of night sky they were seeing then, that we don't have any electricity. I have never thought about that. I have never thought about that. Because these stars, the shot from Mars, I mean, it's a star. The stars are just right by each other. Absolute frenzy. And that's what they would have been seeing 5,000 years ago. I think a lot of folks have not experienced a clear, dark sky and seen the Milky Way as it truly is because we're so used to living with so much light pollution at night, which is all the more reason why we really need to secure those dark skies. Folks have come to our site or to a lot of the sites that I've been to that are remote enough to have a genuinely dark sky and see the Milky Way for the first time and are blown away and feel like it's landing on top of us. You know, my daughter and I went out to the Tohono O'odham Nation to shoot some pictures in the middle of this last summer, a 107-degree day, and we are headed back and we stopped down in front of Kitt Peak and just got out of the car and looked up, and I could not believe the difference that a few miles makes in being able to see the stars. Yeah, it's a really huge difference. I think jumping off of both of these experiences you've had, one of my favorite things more recently has been teaching people how to use their iPhone to take a picture of the Milky Way. And it is possible. Anything above an iPhone X can take a Milky Way shot now. Are you serious? Yeah, they absolutely can. I can show you after the show what some of those look like, but they're absolutely gorgeous and it really blows people away because even a 30-second exposure like that, this new technology, we're able to bring back that kind of connection to the night sky, and so I think that's a huge part of what we're trying to do at Whipple is just find those new ways to connect people to something that's been there the entire time humanity has been here and since before. Exactly. Now, as usual, we don't have enough time. We're down to about five minutes. So I've got a number of other questions here, but I want you to be able to tell me what you want people to know. Well, if I may, the most important thing I would really like to share today is to remind everyone that we are bringing back new VISTAs this year to the Green Valley area. We are on our 57th season, and so that will launch on January 14th at the Green Valley Rec Center West, as per usual. It is the lecture series. It is that lecture series, yes, that everybody loves so much, and if you just love Gabrielle today, you're going to love her that day because she is the first lecture of the season. So please make sure that you're watching our newsletter and the Facebook page and everything to get that information, and also if you're a member of Green Valley Rec, they will publish that information in your calendar as well. Good stuff. Now, things are looking a bit different at the MMT. Do you want us to tell them about the facelift? Yeah, well, we got a nice paint job. So if you're going to sign us up. So that little marshmallow up there is going to look even more prominent. People probably noticed that. In the days that it was being painted, it actually started to disappear into clouds that were going behind the observatory because the paint had peeled off over three decades, and it looked silver to a lot of people the last time you saw it. It had the silver front, so it does not have that anymore. It's white, and that paint is really important. Do you want to talk about why it's important, or do you want me to tell people? So the paint isn't just there so that it looks pretty and new. It's actually there to reflect heat and rays from the sun to protect the telescope on the inside, so it helps us to maintain the temperature inside the chamber and keep all of the instruments in the telescope running at their cold temperature. Now we use liquid nitrogen in the MMT to cool it down and to cool down all of the instruments, but the sun's rays are really powerful, and so it can still overwhelm that, and that can create aberrations in the miniature atmosphere just inside that building. And so that's really what the paint is for. I don't think anyone in this area knows about passive heat inside your car. Yeah. We don't want that. Now do you have a new instrument that's coming in for the MMT? We do. Viaspect is the name of it, and it's going to be installed in the spring, and it's very exciting because there's a parallel instrument at the Giant Magellan Telescope in Chile. Okay. So we have a lot of ties to Chile, actually. Several different instruments have a parallel or a follow-up program with us to something that's going on in Chile. Now you have some construction going on in an area you call the bowl? Yes. So we have in the past, well, we have had two dorms. We have a ridge dorm and a bowl dorm, and the bowl dorm is being taken down, and a whole brand-new one is being put up there. So we have dorms. I think a lot of people are surprised to know that we have dorms up on the mountain. As you can imagine, if you're doing observing all night long, you definitely don't want to drive down that mountain road to try to go stay in a hotel. So we keep everybody up there, and our new bowl dorm will not really be finished until 27. Okay. And then we'll have 14 more rooms. Final word from you, Amy, just regarding people. They need to get information about public tours, private tours. How do they do that? Yeah, so the best way to keep in touch with the Whipple Observatory is always going to be a follow-up on Facebook. That's facebook.com slash Whipple Observatory. That's the best way. If you are looking for information about private tours, which is a new program we didn't get to talk about today, where you can take you and six of your best friends up the mountain for a private visit right now before we get the public tour running, you can always e-mail me. And my e-mail is so easy because it's just OliverA at SI.edu. So super short, O-L-I-V-E-R-A at S as in Sam, I as in igloo.edu, or you can call the observatory at 520-879-4407. Amy Oliver, Head of Education and Public Outreach for the Whipple Observatory and the new Director of the Whipple Observatory, Gabriel Siraj. Thank you both for being here today. Around the Cracker Barrel is brought to you by La Posada at Green Valley, Southern Arizona's best choice in senior living. La Posada at Green Valley offers low-stress living with amenities that enhance your well-being and peace of mind. And when you think about it, is it that's what retirement living is really all about? Visit La Posada at Green Valley to see whether it's right for you. And we'll see you next week for Around the Cracker Barrel.