Rocky

Kenneth and Bonnie discuss the Best Picture winners from 1976. They mention the movie Rocky and how Bonnie had never seen it before. They also talk about other movies like Down for Glory, All the President's Men, Network, and Taxi Driver. They provide brief descriptions and opinions on each film. Hi, welcome to Sibling Cinema. I'm Kenneth. And I'm Bonnie. And we are here counting down the best picture winners from worst to best of stage 12. Okay. We're going to talk about a movie. I'm not going to give you any context. Bonnie, what movie are we talking about today? We're talking about the movie Rocky from 1976. Are you speaking into your mic? Yes, I am. Okay. Can you not hear me? Yeah. I'm right here. I can hear you. Okay, good. Rocky from 1976. Yeah. What's your history with Rocky? Well, did I say last time what my history, last week, what my history with Rocky was? I think you just said that you haven't seen it in a long time. Yeah. I had never seen this movie. You've never seen Rocky? So weird, right? I think I've only seen the sequels. I definitely have seen... What kind of Gen Xer are you? 1976. I mean, that's not Gen X. I do kind of older Gen X. This is before my time. Right. That's what I'm saying. I was nine when this movie came out. I didn't go see it in the theater. So this is a boomer movie. This is definitely a boomer movie. Yeah. But the ones that I did see is like the one with the Russian guy. Oh, Rocky IV. Yeah. The Eye of the Tiger. Rocky III. Yeah. Rocky III, Rocky IV. Oh, yeah. Definitely. The 80s. That's my era. Those are the movies I've seen. I thought I had seen the original Rocky. Mr. T. Mr. T. Yeah. I thought I'd seen the original Rocky, but I had not seen. It wasn't even that I forgot some scenes. It's like I knew the story, but I'm watching this and it's like, I've never seen this movie. Oh, okay. How do we get like, we're 10 scenes in. I'm like, you know what? I know how it ends. I think I know how it ends because I watched the other movies. Okay. Right. Yeah. This is my first time seeing Rocky. Well, it is very different, I think, from the others in the series, but I think we'll get to that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so I think before we get into it, we are ready to get into like a gold standard list of losers. Really? This year. Are you being sarcastic or real? Not at all. Well, let's start with the one Best Picture nominee, like kind of the only one that's not frequently hailed as one of the greatest movies of all time, which is Down for Glory. Oh, Down for Glory? Yeah, this is a movie that's directed by Hal Ashby. Hal Ashby is one of the key directors of the 70s. He's very, he's almost like kind of synonymous with the 70s. I think his first movie he directed was in 1970, and his last one that was received well was being there in 1979. Okay, so that was his decade. That was his decade. Anything I would have heard of? Harold and Maude. Okay. Yeah, Shampoo, being there, Down for Glory, must be something. Oh, The Last Detail. Yeah, he's kind of a very typical 70s kind of a long hair, iconic classic kind of guy. But it's a very compelling drama. Once the, after the 70s, he kind of started to butt heads with the studio brass and, you know, projects went over budget and just everything just really kind of came off the rails. And then he died of cancer in 1988. But yeah, he's a long haired hippie guy. And this movie is a biopic about Woody Guthrie, the Depression era, folk singer, songwriter, activist. Do you recommend this movie? I do. I was going to watch it again this week. I found it very difficult to find. But hopefully it comes back on streaming at some point. But it is really gorgeously photographed of the, you know, Americana, this kind of golden Midwest and the Dust Bowl era, and then very sensitive portrayals of the citizens of the poor people of the United States during this era. It does tend to get overshadowed by the other movies that it's up against here. But I don't know, maybe I've oversold it to get through them in alphabetical order. I'll start with All the President's Men. I've seen this. Yes. So of course, this is, and I'm sure I mentioned it in our spotlight episode, because this is like the gold standard of journalism movies. Really terrific adaptation of the Woodward and Bernstein book based on... Also read that. Yeah. Robert Redford and Wilson Hoffman play Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, uncovering the Watergate story. But the movie is not so much about Watergate itself as just about getting the story and finding the truth. And Jason Robards is really terrific as Ben Bradley, the editor. You haven't got a voice, you know, just really personifying the journalistic ethics of just not publishing it until you have to verify and, you know, follow the money, as Hal Holbrook says, as Deep Throat felt something that we didn't know at the time. Yeah, this movie was really the book and the movie in the era. But I think probably the movie because it was so famous and Robert Redford, Dustin Hoffman, I think it changed who went into journalism. I think it ultimately changed journalism. I think it changed politics too. Politics became a lot more kind of doctor focused. Yeah, which is funny because it's not really the point of the movie. It's not the point of the movie. And it's so interesting. It entered this change, but now we're generations, maybe two generations since that change. And we've ended up at something kind of the opposite. Yes. You know, reporting today is just, you know, a step up of maybe not even a step up, but it's basically gossip. Whereas this is, you got to check your sources, you've got to have them. You're really setting me up for an excellent segue here, because there is a dark side to the news business, and that is exemplified this year by network. Okay. Sidley Mays, very deeply cynical look at network television news. That's unbelievably prescient. I think I've seen this. You had me watch this, right? Did I have you watch it? Okay. Yeah. Remind me, this is the news network. It's a news network. Faye Dunaway is brought on to the news team, and she's going to spice up the ratings. First thing is to get rid of Howard Beale, who's their kind of veteran anchor. Yeah. But then on his last broadcast, he kind of loses it, goes into this populous screed. Everyone go to their windows and scream, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore. Yes, I have seen this. Yeah, he becomes a sensation, and so they kind of switch gears and start exploiting him, and his kind of mental health deteriorates, and they use it for ratings, and it's all these great speeches, and it's really prescient. It seems kind of a cliche, but it's one of those reasons more relevant today than it was when it came out, not just in the cynical version of the news business, chasing ratings over truth, but also in the appeal to populism. Because there's a lot of danger to Howard Beale's popularity as well, kind of tapping into this angst of the common man. Yeah, it's actually a movie written by Paddy Chayefsky, a playwright, writer. He's terrific. But yeah, that's Network, a real classic, probably as popular today as it was in 1976. Yeah, okay, I've seen that. And finally we have Taxi Driver. Oh, I have... I don't think you've seen this. I have not seen this. But it looks like a young Jodie Foster. Yes, young Jodie Foster. Martin Scorsese was already on the map, but this is his first real masterpiece. Is that Al Pacino? No, Robert De Niro. Robert De Niro, that's right. I get those two confused. Yeah, it's also prescient, because he's kind of what we would call today an incel, or just kind of this white male loner figure. He drives a cab, has really no social life to speak of, and just kind of his thoughts rattle around in his brain all day, and it doesn't lead to anything good. We call that an incel. Yeah, you haven't heard the term incel? No. Well, I don't know if it would necessarily apply to that. The name is short for involuntary celibate. Oh. Just guys that don't have social relationships, not necessarily about having sex or not having sex so much as just not having social connections. Got it. The first part of the movie, he meets Sybil Shepard. That's who that is. Yeah, she's from a different class. She's kind of in the inner city working for a political campaign. Wearing a very 70s shirt or dress. Yeah, she is initially kind of drawn to this guy. He's just kind of the bad boy, but once she kind of gets to know him more, she's like, okay, this guy is no good, and dumps him, which sets him off. We kind of think the movie is going in one direction, but it kind of goes in a different direction where he meets this child prostitute, and he anoints himself her savior. Okay. Played by a 13-year-old Jodie Foster. Wow, 13. Yeah. Wow. It's just such a fascinating movie. I mean, we've talked a few times about this era of New York City being a stand-in for hell. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and this really is, I don't know if you'd like it. It's very grimy and pretty. It's so well-made, though. It's kind of like a Midnight Cowboy, but immaculately well-made. But it's very much that setting and these types of characters. So that's where, is that where the, you talking to me? Yeah. That's where it comes from? Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me? Well, I'm the only one here. Yes. Yeah, this is a really phenomenal performance by Robert De Niro, and this is often listed as one of the very best movies of the 70s and of Martin Scorsese's career. Wow. Yeah, that's Taxi Driver. Wow, 13. That's a very impressionable age to be playing a child prostitute. Yeah, I don't, her parents signed off on it. She seems to have. Yeah, she's had a great, I mean, she went to an Ivy League school. She won two Oscars. Well, I think, you know, in comparison to kind of Brooke Shields, who came up, was also exploited in that type of role, right? It was something. A baby doll. Pretty baby or something like that. Pretty baby, something like that. Yeah. Then also the Blue Lagoon kind of thing. Yeah, right. Yeah, sort of a soft porn kind of stuff. Yes. And then she also went to that Ivy League school. She did. But she seemed to suffer some mental effects from that, whereas we don't hear that as much from Jodie Foster. Yeah, she was always much more of a tomboy. Yeah. And even as a kid, she has this very cerebral kind of intellectual. Yeah, right. Even in this movie, she's absolutely terrific. I like Jodie Foster. Yeah. She's great. Yeah, so, I mean, this is a real impressive lineup for 1976. And the movie we're getting to, Rocky, is really the year's big hit. Yeah. It's the big box office tenth film this year between Jaws and Star Wars. Jaws being 75. Yeah, Star Wars 77. All three of them kind of improbable hits. Yeah. So, this was far and away the biggest hit, and obviously it's been a phenomenon. It's a franchise that's still a rock. Rat Creek 3 was released a few months ago. Wow, that's crazy. That is a long time. Yeah, that's a long time. I mean, there was one like, I think, a 16-year gap in between Rocky 5 and Rocky Balboa. Yeah. Yeah, All the President's Men was also very popular, but we also had Star is Born, I think the third version of that story, this one with Barbara Streisand and Chris Christopherson. Okay, yeah. Probably the worst version of it, but it was a big hit. Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, and the remake of King Kong with Omin Bad News Bears. So, a lot, a big year for underdog sports movies. Yeah, that's true. Bad News Bears, well, just those two, right? Just those two, yeah. Omin, that's like a horror flick, right? Yeah, Omin was about a kid who's actually the devil. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, you'd love it. We've got Gregory Peck. Really? Yeah. Okay, but that didn't get nominated. No, we've already gone through the ones that were nominated, except for our winner. That's right, why would you lie? Oh, this is amazing. So, Cosmic? Yeah. Oh, yeah, really good. I hope I see it in the thing. The music is great. Thank you. So, Bonnie, what is Rocky about? Well, Rocky, I would have told you something different last week, probably, but Rocky is essentially about this heavyweight champion, Apollo Creed, who is looking for another fight, but I guess nobody wants to fight him, so he decides to do almost a show fight. So, he's going to be in Philadelphia, so he's this African American black fighter, right? So, he wants somebody who, he told them, here's what I'm looking for, he's just looking through sort of these almost amateur boxers, and he finds one who's called the Italian Stallion, and he imagines the show of this, and this would be a good, almost like a publicity stunt. Of course, yeah. So, that's really the whole thing, and then it's about that fight. But we're, of course, following Rocky, who is the Italian Stallion, who is this struggling boxer who makes his money by being a thug for a lunch, a lunch shark, right? Yeah, who shakes down. Yeah, shakes down money, and I suppose a love story, too. Yeah, so it follows this, so it's this very American in this, it's much like quintessentially American, where you have this, got no right to be there, but rises to the occasion and overcomes all odds to, for essentially a draw. I had thought he had lost this fight, but, and I guess he did lose it. I don't know boxing rules, so it was a little confusing for me, but it's not just released during the Bicentennial, but it factors in throughout the movie, that this is the Bicentennial, the 200th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Yeah, because I didn't think about that until just 10 seconds ago. It really is kind of like, you know, made to be like America, you know, except we actually got the win in the end, or at least the independence. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so what do you think about Rocky? Well, it was my first time through, so it was pretty slow. It was fairly slowly paced. Yeah, it's a slowly paced, it's not like movies nowadays, and very 70s gritty. Like, okay, these movies are all very gritty. So some of the things that surprised me, I remember, I of course remember his relationship with Adrian, but I remember him being kind of mean to Adrian. And that's probably because what I've seen is the later movies with them fighting a lot and maybe even physical abuse or something. I don't remember, but I'm, you know, whenever I watched it, the first time I watched what I thought was Rocky was probably Rocky 3 or something. I thought he was a bully to her. But he was actually very sweet and gentle and kind with her. And also with the girl in his neighborhood, where she's kind of mixing it up with the bad boys in the neighborhood. And he's just like a kid from the neighborhood that sees himself, you know, you see they've got a lot of family problems in the neighborhood. It's very much a lower class neighborhood. Yeah, kind of sees him as a protector. Yeah, right. As he's now this man, he fills the father role for the other, which is a very sweet thing. It would be great if you had that in neighborhoods where it's, you know, that really is the sort of takes a village to raise a child. But if everybody's looking at the community, and then you play a role in the community. So those are some things that surprised me. I was expecting, I kept expecting these big get buffed scenes and all this stuff. But then I realized that's actually from later movies. That is from later movies, right. Because those are the only ones that I've seen. Yeah. Yeah, the training montage comes pretty late in this movie. That would become like a staple of the franchise. Everyone has a song, training montage. Yeah. And then, you know, and of course, they've got the, you know, running up the steps of the art museum. Yes. We used to live in Philly and I knew enough to do that. Right. That's how iconic this was. Yeah. And the other thing I noticed is that it's a very emotionally manipulative movie. Oh, how so? Just because at the end, I don't know if it's the music, if it's the crowds, if it's the, you know, I don't even like boxing. I don't either. I barely know what's going on and they're just pummeling each other. But between the movie and he's yelling for Adrian and there's, people are screaming at it. Yeah. You know, all of that just kind of brings you up into the moment. The crescendo, yeah. Yeah. It's this, yeah, it is like a symphony. You can see they're kind of doing that and that kind of brings, so the movie ends on this kind of emotional high where you feel like, wow. Right. You know, where it's not until the very end that you feel that way. Yeah. Yeah. Especially for me because not being able to really follow boxing, you know, I don't even know what a split decision is. I don't know why Apollo Creed won or how that worked. Yeah. We never saw the arm being raised. To go the distance. I don't really know what that means other than, you know, I kind of gathered that it means lasting 15 rounds. Yeah. But, like, as far as the nitty gritty of the sport, you know, if you were to say, I want to go, you know, five sets against Rafael Labelle, I know that that means, okay, well, you have to win two sets and lose two sets. And so I don't know, like, do people win in each round? Do they get points as they go along? How does it, what's the, I don't really know, like, what we're rooting for. But then I think with the music and the editing, it just comes to this crescendo where I kind of get goosebumps. Right, exactly. And I didn't even realize the fight was over until, like, it started, like, coming on the ring. Right. But, yeah, much more uplifting ending, I think, than the last boxing movie we had. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Million Dollar Baby. Million Dollar Baby, yeah. Yeah, so you had that sort of feeling of victorious in them. Yeah. So I watched it with Adam, right, and it was interesting how he knows much more about boxing. Right. So I guess I appreciate it a little more as we're going, just that going the 15 rounds, at least to the extent that I understand now, it's just, it's not common. Right. And would never have been expected, and it's this incredible feat of endurance. And I guess what they had said earlier, Creed had said, Apollo Creed had said, he expected to knock him out in the third round, and nobody had ever gone the distance. Right. So third round versus 15 rounds, you know, as Adam is explaining to me, you know, as he's going through, he's just like, it's mind-boggling to go, like, it's crazy that they let them go 15 rounds. Yeah. Because we don't see the length of all of those. And having never boxed myself, it's hard to understand how physically exhausting that must be. But that's what I got from that. So does it go 15 rounds whenever neither player gets knocked out or pre-KO'd? Is it possible to end sooner without a knockout? I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know that. Yeah. So sorry, boxing. We should have a boxer. And I don't think it's really about the boxing as much as the rest of the season. Yeah. It's about the end. Yeah. Well, I mean, I do think, so the other thing with Adam was, and he described how he went to go, so he must have gone when it came out. So he's a 13-year-old, went with his buddy, and watched the movie, and was so overcome with it that they sat through the next showing. Wow. Okay. He's never done that before. He loved this movie, and as he described it, it was, like, life-changing for him. Okay. He saw, and I was like, okay. Like, his life makes sense to me now. So can you imagine that? I can see that. A young 13-year-old, and the things that stuck out to him were just the resilience, the guts, the perseverance, the keep going. So if Adam had never seen Rocky at 13 years old, would he have become a Navy SEAL? I don't know. But it definitely, you can see, like, oh, okay, I can see the path they take you on. So anyway, those are some of my thoughts. But did you like the movie? I mean, I had a really good feeling at the end of it. Yes. Do I think it's the best movie that we've seen so far? No. I don't either. But, I mean, did I, I enjoyed it? Yeah. And then, you know, as we said before, I think the list was more a measurement of consensus. Yeah. And it's certainly a movie that's still in the public consciousness, probably more so than, you know, better, you know, I think From Here to Eternity is better. But this is another boxing movie, sort of. Yeah. Yeah. But this is definitely, I can see more consensus around this. I actually like this better this time than before. I mean, I've struggled before with just the fact that Rocky has so little agency. You know, for most underdog stories, you see a kid with a dream or a guy with a dream, and he's, but Rocky's, like, not even thinking. This isn't even on his mind. But this time I saw it almost as a romantic drama instead of as a sports movie at all, because it's really just about opportunity. Oh, yeah. You know, there's so much about America being a land of opportunity. Yeah. And you really see this collection of characters whose lives have become just kind of a compilation of squandered opportunities. Yeah. You see that with Rocky. You see that with Mickey. You see that with Polly. And every time people have reasons for not taking it seriously. Especially with Adrian. And with Adrian, right? Polly blames his failures on the fact that he had to take care of Adrian, and Adrian kind of had to take care of Polly. And so, you know, people have made compromises. I do like that it doesn't get into all the details of the backstory with Rocky and Mickey, but we kind of know that there's stuff that happened, and both have a lot of regrets. I really kind of love that scene with the two of them having that argument. And then when he runs out to them, and we don't even hear what they're saying, kind of in the distance as the train goes by. I have regrets, too. Yeah. You know who Mickey is? Yes. The Penguin. Yes, I do. Yes. From the TV show. Yeah, and so then I think the lack of agency just kind of makes sense to me more. Because that is just, again, he's faced with an opportunity that just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to him. Like, he's not going to win this fight. What's he in it for? But it's just a matter of, okay, this time I'm not going to let him pass me by. There's a lot of reasons why I shouldn't do it, why I'm being made a fool of, but I'm just going to take advantage of it. And you see that kind of in tandem with him taking a chance with Adrian, which, again, had been filled with compromise. He's not making any moves that he's interested in her. And even at the start of their date, he's like, forget it, she doesn't want to go out with me, I'm just going to go home. And he kind of has to be pushed into it. Right. I'm talking to a door, Bollie, I don't know what I'm doing. But you know what, I just thought it was really kind of sweet. Yeah. It's certainly not my favorite so far. Yeah, but I think that's quite good. I really enjoyed it this time. The thing that I like about their love story, which again surprised me because I've only seen the later ones, and I haven't seen them since the 80s, is that them together are stronger together. It's not just the one plus one equals two, it's like one plus one equals five. Exactly. And he's good for her. Two people and then two turtles and a goldfish. That's the five. Okay. But it's not just that she's kind of socially awkward and becomes less socially awkward, which is true. She starts dressing more. Stands up to her brother. Stands up to her brother. Rocky gives her more confidence. And you would think like, okay, and then she softens Rocky, but also she gives him more confidence. Yes, she does. Which is, yeah, so it's like they kind of fit in there together. And I do love that aspect of it. I kind of want to know what happens in the rest. I guess I remember they get rich, and there's a child, there's a son. They have a son. She dies eventually. She does? I think in between Rocky V and Rocky Balboa. Oh, I didn't even know that. I remember Mickey dies. In Rocky III, I think. But didn't the actor actually die? He died eventually. In Rocky III, it's part of the plot that he dies. Okay. I think he gets kind of somehow injured by Cumberland, right? Mr. T's character, and so that kind of motivates Rocky, if I remember that right. But the actor was still 82. 82. Yeah. But, you know, they didn't kill off Burgess Meredith, just the character. But he has since died. I think it's Rocky IV is the one that I must remember. Which one was that? Oh, that was so... 80s? It's so 80s. Yes, I think that... USA versus the Soviet Union. Yes, yes, yes. That's the one. That might have been the first one. That might have been the first one that I watched. Yeah, that's the one where Apollo Creed dies. Okay. Yeah. That's what gives Rossi's motivation there, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had Rocco killed. Right, okay. Spoiler alert, sure. All the Rocky movies, I guess. Eye of the Tiger is in that one, or Rocky IV? Eye of the Tiger is from Rocky III. Oh, it is? Yes. Anyway, that's the era that I remember. I think it's mostly Rocky IV that I remember. Really remember well that whole... Well, not well, but... I remember that it was Russian. Yes. Dolph Lundgren. Yeah, I don't know who it was. Yeah, his son... He was like... Yeah, he was in Creed II. But that wasn't his name in the movie. He was... Ivan Drogba. Ivan. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Creed II was about Adonis Creed fighting Ivan's son. Yeah, okay. So Ivan comes back and... I never seen any of the Creed ones. I didn't even know that was a thing until this week. Yeah, Michael B. Jordan plays Apollo Creed's son. Okay. You know Michael B. Jordan from... Well, you would know him from Black Panther. Oh. He was the villain. Oh. Really good. The Naval Academy SEAL guy. Yeah. I was like, am I supposed to be written against him? But I guess I was. Really compelling character in that, actually. Yeah, that's neither here nor there. I mean, it's iconic. It is iconic. I think it's definitely... It's kind of strangely paced for an underdog sports movie. It's really... And I noticed it more going back to the second time watching it in chunks. But his first date with Adrian is... If you take the first scene in her house and the second scene at the ice rink and then the third scene at his apartment, that's an 18-minute chunk. And this is before... We know that Apollo Creed has picked him, but Rocky doesn't even know that yet. Yeah. So this is halfway through the movie, and that plot hasn't even started going. But I think the movie is kind of more interested in this relationship. Yeah. And just Rocky, because it's just about Rocky taking advantage of this opportunity. Yeah. And it's not really like him becoming... Looking at it on its own and not in terms of the whole franchise that it's become, you don't get a sense at the end of the movie that, okay, now he's in the big leagues or he's going to be the top boxer in the world and be on the cover of magazines. It's just like he's had this one moment in the sun, and it's probably going to... I think he got a $150,000 paycheck for it, which is the way he was living. Probably really helpful, but not like... Especially in 1970s. I mean, I guess it would be life-changing, but not like retire on it. Right, but just change that. Like, hey, let's buy a house and start a family. Yeah, but I think it's kind of humble. Yeah. It's definitely a classic, and I think it's kind of deserving of certain recognition. I mean, it really did change movies in a lot of ways, as it does in Star Wars. But this is very much... You take this kind of deconstruction that we see in the late 60s and through the 70s, this kind of grittiness, and then giving it optimism. Oh, yeah, yeah. I hadn't thought about that. It is a big change from some of these that we saw. Yeah, Frank's connection. Because there was so much of America is just going to... Well, yeah, I do kind of like that sense of regret over lost opportunities. You have that scene where Rocky's looking into a mirror, and he has a picture of himself as a kid. And he's kind of looking at that kid, and then what he's turned into. And I like kind of looking at that in the perspective of the bicentennial. This is two years after Watergate, and there's been years of all these assassinations in the past decade. And so it's like Vietnam just ended, and you're kind of looking back to this signing of the Declaration of Independence, kind of like looking at your childhood picture and saying, what are we? So I was fourth grade in 1976, and I remember what a huge deal the bicentennial was. It was a huge deal, huge. And yeah, we just had a presidential election, and it was also an underdog story. Oh, Jimmy Carter. Yeah, a peanut farmer who became president and all this kind of stuff. But yeah, the bicentennial, now that we look back on it, it was just probably a moment to look back on the U.S. It was a national pride moment, I believe. But also a lot of promotion. I mean, you see that kind of thing, the Apollo Creed, the Valley Forge kind of entry into that. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I do like the kind of contrast. It kind of opens on this low-level fight. But the opening shot of a movie is a shot of this mural of Jesus, right? Yeah. It's like an old church that's being used. And then it kind of pans down and pans out to show the ring during the fight. And then you have a very similar shot, but instead of... The Church of the Resurrection. Yeah. Okay. Instead of focusing in on Jesus, it's this banner of Apollo Creed. And then the similar motion to the shot coming down. Yeah, it really shows this kind of contrast between this kind of visceral, low-level type of street boxing with the much more commercialized pomp and circumstances of the big money matches. I had forgotten about that, but I was obviously, when the movie... I was very startled because, first of all, I'd never seen this movie, so I'd never seen that opening shot. And it was just like, whoa, we're looking at Jesus. And then you realize you're in what had been a church, or at least you're in part of the church. But it did say Church of the Resurrection. Oh, okay. Well, that's interesting. Yeah. And so it's like, oh, this is foreshadowing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Really interesting. Yeah. Resurrection was, you know, it's the name of the church. Yeah. Sylvester Stallone ended up adopting the turtles. Really? Named Cuff and Link. And from what I heard in a fairly recent interview with him, they're still alive. I guess turtles live a long time, don't they? Seriously? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. That's so fun. Why did he adopt them? I guess he liked them. I don't know. I would see bonding with the dog, but I don't think the dog's still with us. Yeah. Barkus? Barkus? Cool dog. Really cool dog. Yeah. Very, kind of a purebred. It's kind of unusual for a shop like that. Yeah. Like a mastiff. Some kind of a mastiff. I thought it was a British Invertebrate. I was so interested in this, because I'm like, is this Sylvester Stallone's first thing? And so this is when I was talking to our son-in-law. I shall not name names, but his name is not Tom and it's not Luis. That's what I would say. Okay. Yeah. But he's a good boxer, so he had a lot of thoughts about this movie. So he was telling me that Rocky, or Sylvester Stallone, wrote the screenplay, shopped this around. Yeah. And it came to like, they wanted to cast somebody else in the role of Rocky, but he wouldn't. He, I think, took less money to go with whoever he went with to keep himself in that role. And then he ended up writing and then later producing or whatever, maybe even directing, I don't know, the other Rocky movies. Yeah. I would not have... He wrote it because he had trouble finding roles that he liked. Yeah. Yeah. Sylvester Stallone can write. I know, yeah. It's so surprising. I know. And this is based on a true story. There's an actual boxer that... Rocky Mariano? No, no, his name's not... I'll have to look it up. Well, that's controversial, right? Because that's the guy who ended up suing them. Yes, ended up suing them. And it was Muhammad Ali as the Apollo Creed character. But it was Muhammad Ali doing it with this... I don't even remember his name. Carl Weathers? No, no. I was going to say that, but that's not... Carl Weathers is the actor. But there's an actual boxer who... It's the same sort of scenario where Muhammad Ali was already the heavyweight champion, I believe, and set up this sort of for show thing. And it was this unknown guy who went the distance with him. And lost, but went the distance with him. But yeah, had you not heard that? Yeah, maybe not that much detail. So that mural in the Church of the Resurrection... Chuck Wepner. Yeah. He is a boxer who fought Muhammad Ali and lost on a TKO in the 15th round. So that was... Oh, a TKO. He wasn't expected to go past the third round. So it was loosely based on Chuck Wepner. And this is what my son-in-law, who shall not remain named, although I might have already said his name. Why are we hiding his name? I don't know. Why should I? It's just to add drama. Okay. You have a son with the same name, though. I do. Yeah. So we know it's either Mikey or CJ. All right. Or Christopher or Joseph. Yeah, so... It could be James. Interesting that... I said the contrast between the mural and the poster or the banner of Creed. Yeah. And Apollo is the sun god. Ooh. Yeah. And Creed. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, the sun's kind of resurrection, because he rides this chariot across the sky. I don't know. Yeah. Interesting stuff. Yeah, so the other thing that he told me was that that scene where they're both in bed before his fight, and she said to him... What? Oh, no, when he says to her, if I even go the distance, I'll count it a victory. Yeah. Or something. I think that's what it was. Uh-huh. When Sylvester Stallone was writing this, he had talked to this guy, Wepner, and he had told him that story. Oh. So that was part of what the lawsuit was about, was because he's like, you said exactly what I said. Oh, yeah. I just kind of took taste from it, actually. Yeah. You like Talia Shiner? Yeah, she's... Adrian? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, she's sweet. Yeah, she's very sweet. We'll see her twice more. Yeah, a beautiful woman playing a frumpy woman. Right. Yeah. Yeah. She also plays Connie Corleone in The Godfather and Godfather Part II, so we'll see her a couple more times. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we'll see Sylvester Stallone again. No, not in Rambo. No, not in Rambo. So that's another series he started. Yes. Yeah, also kind of starts with a group of very kind of gritty original with a lot of ideas and turned into an action franchise. Oh, I never saw First Blood as the first one. Yeah, it's an interesting movie, but it's also from 82, I think. I've never seen any of the Rambos, actually. Yeah. Yeah, the first one's very different. He's just a Vietnam vet who's kind of become... the society treats him as an outcast, and then he ends up becoming a vigilante. Okay. And so it's kind of a little bit more thoughtful about the experience of vets, and then he kind of becomes a superhero in the rest of the series. Yeah. But yeah, that's... That's Rocky. That's Rocky. Yeah, so... See it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I have to do my job. Not my... Really not my favorite of a real stellar lineup, but it's a really big budget thing. You know, again, all the presidents, men, network, and taxi driver have held their own over time. And Beaufort Roy is really good, too. Yeah, and he looks good. Yeah. Yeah. So, are we ready for our limnock? Yes, we are just about ready. Let's see. Bonnie's pulling off a tattoo because she's American, and she made me write one. I didn't make you. This one's pretty good. Okay. In Philly, a fighter named Rocky, with punches both powerful and stocky, he trained hard with heart, and the ring played his part, and became a champ, strong, and cocky. I think that might be their best one yet. That's really good, as far as being the form of a limnock. Yeah. The rhyme's not exact, but it's good. Yeah, they usually don't do... Yeah. Oh, this is good. Oh, you're so good at this. I had a struggle with this one. Oh, this is so good, Dennis. All right. Yeah. Poor Rocky was used to rejection, till Creed made a shocking selection. He'd fight for the prize, but his heart truly lies with a shy lady starved for affection. That's so good. Thank you. We have to do... You've got to make a book of your limericks. Oh, I should have been saving them. You haven't been saving them? Well, I mean, we have them recorded. We do have them recorded. We have to... I'm not going to go back and find them all out. Maybe one of your Mean Girls can do that. Yeah. No, I'll do that. Yeah. So, Rocky got ten nominations. Wow. That's a lot that was tied with Network. You both got ten. You got four acting nominations. Okay. Can you guess who? So, Rocky. Sylvester Stallone. Sylvester Stallone. You got two nominations. He was also nominated for Best Screenplay. Polly Shire. Yes. For Best Actress. Best Actress. Carl Weathers. No. No. Carl Weathers. Meredith. Burgess Meredith. Burgess Meredith. Yes. For Supporting Actor. And Polly? Yeah. Burr Young. Burr Young. Okay. Yeah. Both. I would really like to see the back story of Polly. I don't know if the other movies give you the back story of Polly, but he's such a... Can we talk about Lost Opportunities? You see pictures in their house and you're wondering, okay, was that him in the Navy or was that his dad as a young man? And was he a Navy chief or what's his back story? Maybe once the Creed franchise wraps up we can do a prequel series on Polly. Polly and the Navy. Yeah. I don't think Burr Young is with us anymore. I believe he died in the last few years. Okay. I don't know. But at any rate, Burr Young and Burgess Meredith both lost to Jason Robards for playing Ben Bradley in All the President's Men. And you said you were afraid? Yeah. Yeah. Talia Shire lost to Faith on the Way for Network. Okay. Sylvester Sloan lost to Peter Finch for Network. Okay. Oh, yeah. I mean, is Peter Finch the one who did the... Howard Beale. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beatrice Strait won Best Supporting Actress for Network. So it was the second of three movies to win three acting awards. Wow. The first was Streetcar Named Desire in 1951. Okay. And the other time... Have we done 1951 yet? Yes. Streetcar Named Desire lost to All the President's Men, an American in Paris. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It sounds like Streetcar Named Desire was a strong contender. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about it on the podcast. Yeah. That was a long time ago. American in Paris was a big surprise. Yeah. I said when the presenter read the envelope, he was, oh, dear. Oh, really? American in Paris. Wow. Yeah. So anyway, this won three acting awards, and most recently, Everything Everywhere All At Once won three. None of these ever swept all four. Okay. Yeah. So Rocky only ended up winning three. Uh-huh. So it won Best Picture, Director, and Film Editing. Okay. So Celestia Sloan did not win for his script. I think that went to Network. I mean, it was a fat year, so it's going to be hard to sweep. Well, yeah. Before we offend a lot of people, like, for instance, our parents, Burt Young is still alive. Oh, great. Yes, and he's younger than our dad. Oh, okay. Yeah, he's a few months younger than our dad. So he is, they're both 83. Okay. Yeah, and the famous montage song, Gotta Fly Now, did not win Best Song. That's what that's called? Yeah. It should be called... Gotta fly now. No, it should be called The Rocky Scene. Okay, The Rocky Scene, Gotta Fly Now. Okay. Yeah, it lost Best Song, and this leads into our new feature. Oh. Which is we're going to play, name that tune with the year's Best Song winner. Okay. So let's see if you know this. Oh, it's The Way We Were? A very close answer. It sounds just like that, right? Yeah. It's by Barbara Streisand? It is, Barbara Streisand. Oh, Minnie Splendor thing? No. Oh, yeah. Well, Tonya's evergreen. But it says Love is a Minnie Splendor thing? No. Love's Soft as an Easy Chair. Yeah? No, I don't know. Love is a Minnie Splendor thing. Oh, I've heard this movie before. She's got a beautiful voice. She does. Oh my gosh. Yeah. We talked about it briefly. Yeah, okay. A Star is Born. Oh, yes, I've seen that movie. You saw this version? Yeah, it's the only version I've seen. Oh, that's the worst version. Well, I mean, I don't know if that's true. Because I've only seen one of them. And I like that version. Yeah, why not? It was a Judy Garland version in 1954. Barbara Streisand and Robert... Chris Christopherson. Chris Christopherson. Oh, some blonde guy. Yeah. And then it was recently, well, in 2017. Lady Gaga? Yeah, Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper. I've heard that was good. Really good, yeah. Yeah, Lady Gaga can sing also. Oh, yeah. She can sing. Those most recent two were about singers. And the first two were about movie stars. Okay. Well, Judy Garland also can sing. Yes. She sings The Man Who Got Away and The Star is Born. Okay. And, of course, Somewhere Over the Rainbow. Okay, I would do that. Yeah, first version was 1937. Frederick March, Janet Gaynor. Oh, and then the second version is Judy Garland. Yeah. In the 40s? 1954. 54, okay. Yes. And then... James Mason. And then, okay, so, wow, there's been four? One, two, three, four. All right, here we go. All right. Are we ready to see what is coming up next? Yeah. Neither of us picked Rocky. Neither of us had predicted that it would come up this soon. No. That's true. What do you think is coming up next? Well, I have no idea. I learned today that it's unlikely to be Parasite, but... Well, we'll see. They're all going to come up eventually. Okay. It could be Amadeus. It's got to be coming up soon. Amadeus, No Country for Old Men, Parasite, Moonlight, and The Best Years of Our Lives. Okay. Yeah, they're all going to come up eventually. I have All Quiet on the Western Front, Rebecca, The Deer Hunter, Unforgiven, and what's that story? Yeah, it's going to be one of those. Yeah. A lot of good movies coming up. That's exciting, right? Okay, I'm excited. Yeah. All right. So, without further ado... Here it is. All Quiet on the Western Front. There we go. It was one of yours. Yeah. Okay, that's a war movie. I don't know if you know this. World War I. Oh, okay. And here's an interesting tidbit. I don't know if you know that. But this movie was... There was a remake in 2022 or 2012. Yeah. And it also was nominated for Best Picture and one of the top contenders, although everybody knew everyone. Yeah. Yeah. What did it lose to? Everything Everywhere All at Once. Yeah. So, you've seen All Quiet on the Western Front? No, I have not seen either of them. Okay. I know nothing about it except... Well, it's a World War I movie. Yes. Okay. Well... What year is this movie? 1930. Wow. This is from the third annual Academy Awards. Oh, my gosh. So, this is before there was... They didn't even call it World War I. Yes. They could just call it... It was just the Great War. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And we're not going to be able to continue with our new feature because the Best Song category wasn't introduced until 1934. Wow. But we will be back next week with our earliest movie that's left on the board. We can continue with it because you could just play the number one song from 1930. Okay, let's do that. So, yeah, we'll be back next week with All Quiet on the Western Front. Are you looking forward to it? You love war movies. Do I? No. No. I'm very... I want to see it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Another World War I movie we watched was Wings, which you liked. Oh, yes. I did like that. Oh, wait. Is this the final movie? No. Okay. No, only a couple years after Wings, though. Okay. All right. So, until next week. Bye. Bye. Bye.