talking-pools-solo101

In this episode of the Talking Pools podcast, Shane discusses the common issue of leaking swimming pools. He explains that all pools, regardless of age, are likely to develop leaks at some point. He discusses the impact of clay in the ground and the role of groundwater in leak detection. Shane advises visually inspecting the pool for cracks, checking skimmers, tiles, and return faces for leaks. He also suggests pressure testing the lines and using dye testing to identify leaks. Shane emphasizes the importance of communication with clients and the need for thorough investigation before diving into the pool. He concludes by highlighting the significance of maintaining clean water and a good water level for effective leak detection. G'day folks and welcome to another episode of Mondays Down Under on the Talking Pools podcast. You are joined by me Shane, I am flying solo today. Peter the mad bastard's gone into the bush, hopefully not by himself, who knows what he's doing in there. I've seen the movie Crocodile Dundee and all I can wish you is good luck Peter, I hope that you're safe and well in there and fingers crossed you come out with all your limbs and in one piece for the next episode really. Good luck. Today we're going to be talking about leaking swimming pools so hopefully I can give some advice to anybody out there which is thinking about delving into this side of service work themselves. It's something that I've been doing myself since pretty much day one in the industry in my first job and I do enjoy it as long as the water temperature is good, that always helps. You will find over time that every swimming pool will more than likely leak, no matter what age it is. I've come to pools which have been in the ground maybe two years, they've got broken pipes underneath the ground, anything up to 40 years, it's inevitable, they're always going to leak at some point. As and when that is, every pool's different depending on what the swimming pool is in. In Auckland there is a huge amount of clay in the ground so as that clay dries it opens up, it cracks and then once the rain comes down and when the water table in the ground starts saturating the floor, these cracks go back together. So I'm not sure if people have tried moving clay or digging out clay, it's pretty solid so if you can imagine that opening up with a crack when it's dry it's going to be a lot of force and pressure on that pipework. Ground water itself plays a huge part in when you're testing for leaks as well so if there is a high water table in the ground, 9 times out of 10 that pool might not even be leaking. I've come to a liner many many years ago, I dived down and there was a hole inside of the wall the size of my fist, you could literally put your hand through the hole and touch the outside of the swimming pool but the pool wasn't losing any water on that specific day because the ground water was so high so when it's pretty much as equal as the swimming pool water, that pressure from the outside and the inside, you're not going to lose any or you're going to lose barely, barely any. So this is always a big thing to keep in mind when people are saying that they have a leaking swimming pool, maybe they'll call you back up and say oh it's actually been alright you know for the last couple of weeks, you know ask yourself has it been raining, would there be ground water in there surrounding the swimming pool, there's a few things to take into consideration before you actually start testing for things. Now usually when I turn up to a swimming pool, it's always handy to have a client there as well just in case you need to ask any questions, you know I'm sure they'll give you the details of what the pool water has been like, the level, how often it's been dropping, how often they need to fill it up, 9 times out of 10 as well they'll have a suspicion on where the leak could be. I've been to many clients where they've said you know we've let the water go down to this point, it's stopped at the bottom of the skimmer and they're adamant that the skimmer is leaking, you know doing all your tests, checking everything and you find out the skimmer's fine, again this relies on water pressure, the groundwater, the water table in the ground, so always take things like that with a pinch of salt but at the same time it's always good to get some information from them. So once you're on poolside, walk around the parameter of the pool, check everything, have a look, do all your visual checks, have a look around in the garden, if you can follow any pipe work, if it is visible by all means do so, have a look at the surface of the swimming pool, if it is concrete plaster, check to see if you can see any cracks, any visual cracks when you're by the skimmer, with the system turned off, the pump turned off, take the skimmer basket out, have a look inside the skimmer itself, make sure there's no leaves in there, make sure it's as clean as possible, just visually check for any cracks or anything that may look a little bit suspicious and then you can get your dye out, start testing, do some dye testing, if it looks like there could potentially be a crack at the bottom of the skimmer, it does happen, it's very common, just squeeze a little bit of dye in there, if it is a crack, fingers crossed, there's no high water table and that dye does get pulled through, there's a clear sign that that one is leaking. Now whether they choose to replace the entire skimmer or, to be fair, a lot of my clients I've gone to in the past, they haven't really chosen to go down that route, ideally you should but they've, you know, they've kind of asked just to put a bandage on it, use some epoxy, it's not the greatest thing to use when you are trying to adhere it to any form of plastic or PVC, it just doesn't bond very well, so if you are going down this route just make sure that the client is aware that this is a temporary fix, how long it's going to last, you know, you cannot give them a guaranteed indication on the length and time that it is going to last. I've seen epoxy last, you know, up to a year, on some swimming pools it's lasted five years, so again, those are probably down to ground movement as well, so just make sure that they are aware of this, you always want to cover yourself regardless, so yeah, just make sure this procedure, if you have followed that procedure, you know, you've got that written in writing, once you send it through on a report or on an invoice, clearly state in that advised customer, if they are going down the epoxy route, then they have been advised that this is only a temporary measure and they're happy with this. Other things to check while you're still on poolside, the tile band, check to see if any tiles have fallen off, depending on the age of the pool, if tiles fall off, it's usually, again, down to ground movement, or if the tile hasn't been adhered properly to the actual shell of the swimming pool. There is a lot of cowboys out there which probably use, I've seen it in the past, it's not ideal, but they've used some form of no nails or silicone to stick the tiles on, obviously that's not going to last very long at all, so yeah, this is one thing to check, if the tiles have fallen off, check to see if there is a crack in the bond beam behind there, if it is, if there is a large crack, eventually that is going to work its way around the entire surface area of the swimming pool, so this is something to advise the client as well, check that it isn't going down, it isn't rooting down in towards the plaster, if it is, again, do some dye testing. Dye will become one of your best friends when it comes to leak detection, it's amazing stuff, you know, if you see a potential leak, a potential crack, a potential hole, anything, as long as the groundwater isn't too high, you know, that dye will always get pulled through, so it's very handy to keep, you know, a bottle of dye and a syringe in the work van, you know, in your dive bag, in your pressure testing kit, anywhere, at all times as well. While you're still on poolside, if you can access any of the light faces, it's always good to disconnect them, if you can dye test around the face of the niche, which goes into the wall, that's always good, as long as you can reach down to it, they have a tendency of leaking as well. When it comes to return faces, if you can, pop off the eyeballs, the jets, also test as the PVC pipe comes into the swimming pool and it meets the plaster, I've had multiple leaks around there where the plaster has actually started to wear away, so this is always a good one to check. Sometimes they can be, you know, a millimetre, less than a millimetre, so you've got to have a very good eye for these types of jobs as well, but this is another thing you can also check poolside. Still, while you're on poolside, also check the mouth of the skimmer, do some dye testing and some visual checks around there as well, they are prone to leaking over time, so, you know, this is another thing that you can cross off your checklist. If you can't see any of the pipework, if it is under the ground, which tends to happen a lot in New Zealand, I'm sure it's the same everywhere in the world, unfortunately, the plans for the swimming pool, when the client gets the plants, they'll have a drawing of the swimming pool, you know, next to the house or in the garden or wherever it is. I've never, not once, seen a plan which shows where the pipework goes, so that kind of makes it a little bit challenging, but, you know, once you've been in the industry long enough, you can kind of, you can guess, I guess nine times out of ten, you'll kind of figure out which way it's going to go, as long as there's not a huge distance between the pump shed and the pool itself. So, it's always good to try and figure it out, to map it out in your head, walk along that route where you think it may be, just have a look if there's any grass, which is looking like, you know, it's growing longer than the rest of the area, if there's any damp patches in mud or in the garden, you know, this is other things to check for. The visual checks around the swimming pool, you really need to be as thorough as you can, because, again, there is a lot of areas out there where you can actually pinpoint the leak, whether it is down to damp ground, or whether you've visually seen it, you know, a pipe's coming out of the ground, you can see it blatantly while the system's running, a crack in the return line, you can see it. So, be as thorough as you can when it comes to investigating the surroundings of the swimming pool, before you actually get down to the pump shed itself. Once you get down to the pump shed, personally, I like to leave the system running and just go around all the bits of equipment, check everything visually, feel the pipework, feel if there's any dampness, you know, check around the pump, check around the filter, check around the heat pumps, check around any solar pumps that they might have, check around any of the pipework that goes, you know, if it goes up into the pump shed roof, if it goes outside of the pump shed door, go out, visually check, see exactly where it's going. If you can follow it, follow it by all means. Solar is another one, if they have solar heating, make sure you turn that pump on and it's running. I've come across quite a few where they've had a split in their solar mats actually on the roof. In a situation like this, I've noticed it just by going on roadside and there's basically, you know, a little water fountain coming off their roof. So, you know, there's something that you can check visually, which is easy enough to do. When it comes to the pumps, if it looks like there is any air being pulled through into the hair and lint pots, that could be a sign as well. Pumps, when they pull water, if there is a crack in the line, you know, it can be the smallest of cracks. The pumps will prefer to suck air rather than water, it's much easier and this is just down from what I've noticed in the past. So, this is another thing to check for if the hair and lint pot isn't fully primed up. While you're still on the pump side, check around the unions. Again, just feel if there's any dampness, any drips coming out of the unions themselves. I went to a job last week where the pump was leaking. The actual 40ml pipe which was glued into the union had actually heated up and pushed out over time. Now, it kind of looks like initially it wasn't glued in properly from the installer and as the pump possibly has been running dry for X amount of time, it's heated up the return side union and it's just managed to push the pipe out over time. So, it was only a slight drip but again, that was something that the client didn't notice. There was also a leak on the bleeder valve on the bottom of the pump. This style of pump had a little knob at the bottom that you could unscrew and basically bleed it, prime it. There was a very small drip coming from that one where the o-ring was just completely worn down. So, these are other things to check on the pump side as well. Then, make your way up to the filter. On the same job last week, the collar around the, it was a media filter with an MPV on the top. The collar had come loose. There's two screws and two nuts which hold the collar and the MPV in place. The guy was saying that the filter was about 15 years old, hadn't been changed, the media hadn't been changed. So, over time, these nuts and bolts are just, they're basically loosening up over time. It wasn't, again, it wasn't a major leak but it was enough to notice that there was a drip coming out every time the system turned on. This is another good reason to have the system turned on while you're going around and you're checking everything at the same time. We got it to the MPV and the MPV, it wasn't leaking on filter but it was leaking on recirculate. Now, in a situation like that, you know, two options. Either put a two-way valve on the waistline or let the client know that they need a new MPV. Even though it's not leaking on filter, it was leaking on recirculate. There should be no water coming out your waistline when it's on recirculate. So, it's obviously leaking intermittently. This could be another reason why it's having water loss when it's on filter. So, as a rule of thumb myself, if the client, if the client's equipment is leaking on recirculate as well, either put a two-way valve on there or replace the MPV. Whilst I was checking around the MPV as well, I did notice that there was a drip coming out the top of the heat pump. So, yeah, there was another leak there. When the system was turned off, sorted out the MPV, put a two-way valve on, took the top off the heat pump and the temperature sensor which went into the top of the flow check valve had actually come loose. The nut had come loose and the boat had actually started warping as well. Again, probably been there since day one. That was an easy fix but, yeah, in regards to the heat pumps, you know, when the system's running, it's obviously on the pressurized side, check around the bottom of it, feel any drips. If you can, ideally when the heat pump isn't running because if it is running then you're going to get condensation running through the system and it's probably going to be, you know, excreting out the bottom of it or, you know, outage tube. So, make sure that system's been off for a good 24 hours before you actually check it. Yeah, that was an easy fix luckily. So, the MPV was, we put a two-way valve on that one, that was an easy fix for the clients. I think, yeah, that was the issues found that side. Then the next step through this one was pressure testing the lines. So, the returns and the skimmer were accessible, there was no bottom drain to pressure test. So, put the bung into the skimmer and put the bungs and the plugs into the return jets, disconnect your suction side and your return side and, yeah, start pressurizing that line. Just be warned if there is any two-way, three-way valves on there, if they are looking old and tired and you're pressurizing that line and it's a little bit further down on the pipework, you may get an inaccurate reading just where the pressure isn't holding because that valve's old, the old ring inside, it's not going to hold pressure. So, depending on which tools you have, you can put plugs down inside the actual housing itself for the two-way valves, so you can at least isolate from that point back to the pool side. Pressurize that line, hold it for a good 10-15 minutes, I like to build mine up to about 10 psi, I don't want to get any higher than that just because of safety reasons. And then while these lines are holding in pressure, you know, if the dive, sorry, if the pool does need a dive, then start sorting out your dive gear and getting everything prepared. If it is a vinyl pool, what I prefer to do personally is cut maybe about 10 patches so they're ready to go. It's always a bit of a pain I've noticed when I'm diving into a vinyl pool and there's multiple holes down there, having to come back up, cut one patch, dive back down, find another hole, come back up, cut another patch, so I tend to cut about 10 patches. Obviously, you're not going to do this on a fiberglass or a concrete pool, but there's, yeah, by all means, you can do this, you know, get things ready for the vinyl liners. Now that you've set everything up on the pool side with your dive gear, everything else that you may need, if it is a concrete pool, they can crack over time. I've seen many, many plaster pools opening up and the crack where it hasn't, for whatever reason, it hasn't bonded to the shock rate of the gunite, it's opened up and they do leak. So make sure you get your dive ready going down, possibly some epoxy if need be, and yeah, by the time you've done that, go back and check your pressure rig, see if the pressure's held. Fingers crossed it has. If it has, then yep, you know, you return and your suction side have passed. If you're testing for a bottom drain, obviously, you're going to need to dive down, bung that one off, come back up to pool side if you haven't got any assistance and then re-pressurize that suction line as well. It's always a good idea if you are diving into the swimming pool, just to inform the client that the pool does need to be clean, or as clean as they can get it at least. I mean, no leaves in the pool, definitely no algae, it can be cloudy. In situations like this, you know, it makes it extremely difficult if you are having to dive a pool and dive test. It basically prolongs your dive, it's more money for you, but at the same time, it's just a waste of time. I prefer to be in there, jumping into a pool, having it ready, it's nice and clean, it's safe to swim in and you're good to go. You know, it makes the client happier at the end of the day if you say that you're going to save them money, so that is a must. So yeah, just make sure that they're aware of this, make sure that the water level is topped up to the coping stones if they're able to do that prior to coming to the dive because the more pressure in the swimming pool, the better. Now, once I'm in the swimming pool, usually my strategy is checking anything that you can up around the waterline or if there's any lights, check any fittings first, so your return faces, where the pipe goes and it joins on to the plaster, if it was a plaster pool, if it was a plaster pool, what you like to take out of the niche as the cable goes into the wall, they're prone to leaking. There is a fantastic product that they're called butyl tape and basically, it's like a flexible tape where you can actually push it into the conduit where the cable goes into the niche and you can just jam pack this butyl tape and this will seal the leak. So I strongly advise using something like this if there is a leak by the cable going into the light niche or into the wall, a very good product. So check your faces of the returns, you check your lights, go again to the skimmer face, check the bottom of it, you'll get a better clear visual of the actual skimmer face itself when you're under the water and you can see the bottom of it a lot more clearer. So do some dye testing around there, check for any cracks by all means. So once you've checked the penetration points around the swimming pool, then usually I would prefer to start on the walls and basically just making your way from the top and making your way down to the deep end of the pool. So work yourself along the walls and any of the steps, feeling around if it is a liner pool, just rub your hand around in front of you, just moving it left and right or have a rag in your hand so if it is dirty or if there's any leaves in there, you're just pushing things away. It will just give you a bit better visibility and you can actually feel if there is anything starting to protrude through the liner. Obviously with fiberglass and concrete, you know, you're searching for cracks, you're searching for holes, anything that just looks out of the ordinary that shouldn't be there. If you find anything, dye test it. Again, depending on the water table on the ground, which area you're in. If it does look suspect, then, you know, if you're able to patch it up or put a bit of epoxy on there, by all means do so. Again, yep, you know, in the past I've come to a couple of pools, they've really stuck in my head where it's been a plaster, you know, a concrete pool, it's been plastered, it's been in there for many, many years and literally they have a crack from their tile band, you know, maybe five feet long, four feet long and, you know, you dye test all the way down and there's only certain little points where the dye is going to be sucked through. For whatever reason, I'm not too sure, but in a situation like that, you would just, you know, clean out as much as you can of that crack, preferably using a wire brush. This, you know, on this particular pool there was quite a bit of algae in there. Clean out as much as you can with a wire brush, put a bead of epoxy from top to bottom and explain to the client that they do have some major defects in their swimming pool and they are going to want to get this, you know, looked at sooner rather than later. When it comes to, you know, a situation like that, ideally you want to, you know, drain the swimming pool, shred back the plaster, you know, and put staples in the shotcrete of the gunite, just so it holds it together. Re-plaster over, again, not a lot of people out here want to do that. They prefer to have the bandage, you know, for whatever reason, it usually boils down to money and, you know, I can't blame them for that. So we can just do what we can do. If they're happy with that, as long as you've informed them, you know, this is going to be a temporary fix. It covers yourself when you get that phone call in 6 months, 12 months, 24 months time, whenever it's going to be, saying that it's starting to open up and my pool's leaking again. So always cover yourself. I think Heather is a big one for mentioning this on her shows. So it's a must. You must cover yourself regardless of whatever job that you're doing. Just get everything down and right and cover, cover, cover. Once the walls have been checked, then it's a case of starting on the floor then. Again, if it's a vinyl pool, get your rag in your hand or, you know, feel on the base of the floor, feel if there's anything protruding out the bottom. If it's a concrete pool, again, just look for any defects in the plaster. I tend to use a zigzagging motion when I'm on the pool floor. This allows me to cover the entire pool floor. So on the liner pools, the vinyl pools, where they're joined together, where they're seamed together, there is a seam that you can basically follow. So you can cover one area, which is roughly, I'd probably say, just under a meter, maybe about two, two and a half foot. So you can kind of run that strip, you know, making your way down towards the deep end, covering that area, spin yourself around while you're on the deep end, work on the next strip of liner and make your way back up to the shallow end. So zigzagging motion is, it's always worked for me in the past. This is something I would stick to. Again, if the swimming pool does have a bottom drain, take off the main drain cover, plug off your bottom drain suction point. If there's a hydrostatic valve in there, by all means check that. Depending on the pool age, you know, if it's anywhere between six to seven plus years, a good standard for myself would be just to replace that hydrostatic valve. Regardless, I'm down under the pool, you know, they cost 50 bucks. So it's an easy fix to do as long as you've got the right tools for it. And it makes the customer happy, you know, something that you can fix on the spot as well. Where they may have a hydro plate, by all means dye test around there where the, you know, the plaster is meeting the actual pool shell itself. So this is, I've noticed a couple of these in the past, they've prone to leak. Again, probably just wear and tear at the age of the swimming pool. So yeah, this is something else that you can dye test while you are on the pool floor. You can also test around the actual housing of the main drain, you know, if it's a main drain hydro combo, where it's in the housing and it meets the plaster, by all means dye test around the seal, check to make sure that that's all good at the same time. Usually what I like to do is while the bottom drain is being pressure tested, just go around the swimming pool another, you know, another lap around the pool on the floor on the walls, just to give everything a double check. You've got 15 minutes waiting for the pressure test to come back with a result. So it makes sense just to go around. We're only human, we do miss things every now and then, it happens. So if you go around it two times, you know, it gives the client a bit more of a peace of mind as well that you're doing a bit more of a thorough check. Now, if you do find, for instance, any of the suction points or any of the return points are leaking and all the pipework is buried underneath the grounds, this could make it a little bit challenging for yourself if you have gone around the area and you've checked there's no dampness, there's no visible signs of any water, any, you know, overgrowing grass, that's when it can make things a little bit challenging. It's like as the old saying goes, finding a needle in the haystack, and that's exactly what it can be. So what our company invested in last year was a acoustic testing equipment from a company in America, in California, called Leetronics. So this equipment is very good. We've had a very good success rate with it. It takes quite a bit of practice listening to the exact sounds that you need to listen to, but you can usually pinpoint exactly where that leak is coming from. I know companies around Auckland which use the same equipment themselves, they've also had very good success rates, but if it is next to any form of underground pipework, sewage lines, wastewater, storm gully traps, anything like that, then it can make it a little bit difficult because it more than likely will pick up that sound, so just bear that in mind. But all in all, a very, very good piece of equipment. Now depending on what issues you find, they're all going to result in using different methods to either a bandage or, you know, a temporary fix or whatever it comes to, a permanent fix. So this is something that the customer is always going to choose. You can only advise them, you know, you'll provide the report to them, you'll explain everything to them in detail, but at the end of the day, they're the one, it's their swimming pool, they're the ones that's going to make that choice. So we can only do what we can do at the end of the day, as long as the pool stops leaking. Once you've finished doing your job, you're not getting any callbacks from them, two weeks down the line, three weeks down the line saying that the pool's still leaking. As long as you're thorough with everything that you do and give them good explanations, then you should be good. I will keep everybody posted on a swimming pool that I've got coming up. I think the guy comes back in February, middle of February from Australia. I've done a site visit there. He's had two other companies come in and do some leak detection and it sounds like they've walked away. So usually in a situation like that, alarm bells should be ringing, but no muggins here. He accepted the call and had a site visit. We went around there and we checked the pool. The pool was probably about 30 years old. There is multiple cracks in the pool which have been basically patched up, pretty much every corner of the swimming pool. There was, from memory, I think three return jets which have been bunged off. I don't know what they're for, if it's solar, they do have solar and they've got a solar pump in the pump machine. It's got solar on the roof. He said he hasn't used it. So this one could well be opening up a can of worms and I will post a lot of pictures on the Talking Pools Facebook page. So this could be a bit of a challenge for myself as well. So hopefully I can give some good feedback to people which are interested in this line of work. Fingers crossed that I can. So yeah, to be continued, we'll see. So yeah, that's me out. Hope everybody's taken away a little bit of something today from this. Dye is your best friend. Just remember that when it comes to leak testing. And yeah, happy days. Good luck with everything going forward, guys, if you are doing this line of work. And yeah, keep us posted. Post your progress as well as your fails on the Talking Pools Facebook page. If there is anything that I can help with, by all means, I will do. We're all a team. No matter where you are in the world, you know, we've all got to stick together. So that's me done for today, guys. Hopefully it wasn't too bad without Peter today. Apologies if it was. And I do owe everybody an apology for my sound. For the last few episodes that I've been on with Peter, it does sound like I'm recording in a dunny. So I do need to apologize for that, guys and girls. Hopefully this sound is better. Really is giving me a kick up the ass. And yeah, fingers crossed you can hear my stupid accent a little bit better now. So big loves to everybody. Peace out.