Hiring_Audio_Audacity

The conversation revolves around the challenges of hiring and the process of interviewing candidates. The manager discusses difficulties in finding the right candidates, lack of training from the company, and the use of AI in recruitment. They also touch upon the importance of self-training, team interviews, and the role of HR in attracting suitable profiles. The manager emphasizes the need for effective interviewing techniques and the significance of involving team members in the hiring process to assess chemistry and skills. I think I'm going next time to hide microphones, even though we are recording, so whenever we have a conversation, it's recorded. Any conversation. It would be great. Yes, we can use, because we are making very great conversations, actually. That's what I was saying, it's like, we can share, we talk, and it's like a natural conversation. Definitely, definitely, and that's because I'm getting a lot of inspiration, you know, even make me think a lot, and also hope that it will change also my perception. Maybe. So good now. Yes, now, you know, I'm working. Hi, Aline. You know, I'm working for a couple of months for a hiring training, especially I want to really support hiring managers because we are in a changing landscape with AI in our lives, and many things in HR and in organizations are changing, but actually my intention is to really support hiring managers to share with some very beneficial tools, how to make efficient interviews, and how to find the right candidates. Yes, and, but I designed the training, then I wanted to a little bit change it, and I wanted to integrate some more insights for managers, what the biggest difficulties they are now living. So I will have some questions to you, because I know, let me just ask you, how many positions currently you have, open positions? Now, currently, I, it's a good question, because unfortunately in the last seven, ten days, two people are leaving my team, so I should be opening two, although I'm assessing the resources I have, and I'm not maybe opening two, I will open one of the two, and I have other two open. So I have like two, and I may have three now currently on my team, and I filled three positions this month, actually. Only this month? Only this month, yes. This year, approximately how many positions you filled? Not, this month was the month like more active, I think this year I had other, at least, at least other two people, I think, I think two people, sorry, sometimes I lose count, two for sure, I'm thinking there is a third one, I'm not thinking now, now, beyond those three. So, it would have been three, but it has been difficult to find people, especially there is one position that I may try to call internally, because I don't get the right candidates to apply. And this number shows actually the turbulence, what I also found, I did a search actually, how many open positions, how many position transactions are happening, 77, at the end of 2024, there were 7.7 million job openings only in US. And I'll try to data for Europe, but I know also from Turkey alone in the country, there are many, many open positions, and there is always this turbulent time for closing immediately, finishing the project, a big project, but lack of forces there. And so, because of that, I ask, probably, each year you have, only you have 10 open positions approximately, right? Maybe a little bit less, I would not say, I mean, I have a team, I have like around 25 directs, 10% would be a really big number, and that is two and a half engineers. So, 10 engineers would be almost half of my team, that would be not a good sign, I'm doing something really shit here, because half of my team is leaving. No, not only because of the technique, but also, yes, because of that. We are growing, but we are not growing that much, so in four years, we grew from 15 to 25, so yes, and then people have been leaving the team in those four years, I mean, I need to cover those too. So, it's not been, it's not been like a lot, so let's say 10 open positions to cover the growth, and then in those four years, I think, I don't know the number exactly, but it's 10 or a little bit less than 10 people, let's say, coming back and forth, maybe in four years, also from the new guys. I had a couple of new guys who didn't like the city, and then decided to quit the job and move to a different place. Some people are missing their family or whatever, so from the new guys, there is also some rotation. Some risk to leave. Yes. What is your biggest difficulties in finding right people, in hiring process? In the hiring, the difficulty, yeah. Yes, let us first keep it, narrow it, like don't, to not make it very big topic, like when I say hiring process, there are a lot of steps there, but first, finding the right people, what is your biggest difficulty? The first one, and I was discussing that yesterday with one of my colleagues here, is we don't receive the right candidates, and we don't know exactly why, because that is more, human resources in my company is the one who's doing all the advertising and trying to get those people, and they are struggling to attract the right candidates, so to me, I really feel a shortage of people applying. We don't understand, like there is many people with that profile in the world, many in Germany where we are living, and despite that, we don't receive the CVs, and that is the main thing, it's like I want to hire someone. It doesn't have to be a senior candidate, at least with two or three years of experience, or relevant experience will be good for the needs, because when I have a new project, I can have someone with less experience, but when we are in some places, I need someone who can learn fast, and I cannot just invest two years of teaching someone. Do you think that the problem is that you are looking for a very high profile? Very specific profile. Because of your industry. And there is a lack of connection with HR on how to reach those people, and they are advertising on LinkedIn, maybe in some, it's in the space sector, so they probably are advertising in space careers, but maybe space careers nowadays is not as used as in the past, or the new engineers don't know about space careers, and somehow HR is not reaching the right candidates, and I think one thing that HR should be doing with the help of AI now is contacting candidates, maybe on LinkedIn, that have these profiles. Like we have these openings, and... So you are waiting for suitable profiles and CVs as a manager. Yes, and I did in the past, and it still was difficult, because many people already changed jobs, but I was going to LinkedIn, checking people with the profile I'm interested in... That would be my question. As a manager, are you doing something like sitting and waiting for HR? I did this active resourcing in the past, but it was time-consuming, and I could not really do that a lot, and I didn't expect if human resources have someone doing that. And now with AI, I hope they find a tool, but that's why I expect the companies to use AI to leverage that. That would be one of my questions, but I a little bit want to ask more about process. I'm sure that you get training from your company, how to interview, what are the steps, what is critical in hiring process... Actually, no, I did training on myself. The company is not really, at least mine is not really teaching us that. We are teaching another aspect of leadership, not on hiring. At least not to myself. There are two types of hiring managers, what I saw also in my organization before. One of them couldn't get a training from company, as there could be at that time, they need to get the promotion, but couldn't get the hiring training at the same time. And it took sometimes two or three years, and they just start to hire in process. And in some organizations, there isn't such kind of training. And then my question would be how you train yourself. I mean, definitely myself was mostly looking material on the internet about how an interview should be. HR is explaining how they expect the interview to be, more or less, what kind of questions. So I had first, of course, before my first interview, I had like a short meeting with HR, thinking, okay, what kind of questions can I ask, what not. And what is going to be the structure of the interview like HR wanted, so we are aligned. What type of questions HR is going to ask, which one I'm going to ask. So there is always an overlap, and there is nothing bad. I mean, if HR is asking something I'm interested to know, I'm happy HR to ask, and vice versa. But there are questions like HR is not going to ask that I really want to. And then I was doing some research, and it's always a loop. The first is a research, okay, what kind of questions can I ask on an interview, and you have like generic ones. To me it's a lot about seeing how someone else is thinking. And the answer itself, it could not be that relevant, but it's important how they answer. And I want to see if they are sort of players or not. So I was researching on the Internet, if I want to know about this, how can I phrase the questions, what kind of questions can I do. Okay, you get support from AI? From AI later, when I started in leadership there was no AI openly available like it is today. Later I was using AI as well. And also I started to have guests on the interview, especially from my team. Oh, okay, you are doing this team interview. Yes, I want to have, because how I have my team, if I was in like 25 people, I have them, even if it's 25 directs for myself, I have them organizing groups. And in each of the groups I have like a leader, it's not an official leader, but it's the one who's leading that group. Very nice hint. So then I want to bring that guy, if possible, or someone on the team of the project I want a new engineer to go to work with. At least that may change, but at least what is my initial plan. So I see what is the chemistry between them. And then the funny thing that is like also the people who's invited, they like I did prepare myself, they prepare themselves. And then you go to the interview and they ask questions, they ask very good questions. And it's like, oh yeah, I forgot about this question or I should have asked that. And I learned from my team as well, because they took that interview seriously, they got prepared and they make very good questions. And also for biases, always it's very good to have two or three point of views to eliminate biases. Yeah. Or have different kind of ideas. Or if we all have the same bias, something that happens more often than less. At least we know we are in the same opinion and this guy will not fit with our bias. It will be very easy, but pity. But yeah, I mean bias is something like we always talk to eliminate, but there are some biases that are almost unavoidable. But to be aware about what can create bias. There are some tips actually that I will also share in my training. And when you look at your last positions that you closed, as a manager, hiring manager, what worked a lot to find the candidate? To find the candidate? Yes. Did you have any instance as a hiring manager? Are there any best practices on your side to share actually? I did this and it worked very well. But to find? Sorry. I'm trying to focus on which stage, like on receiving the CVs, on the interview, or what do you mean to find? Since we started with finding the candidate, do you have some kind of best practice that you can share with us? It helped me a lot. We had difficulty. Well, the thing is HR overrides my description of the job description sometimes. I ask for people with experience and I receive people with no experience. So a very good job description I think is important. So that people understand beforehand what is this job about and what is needed. And to be clear on the requirements, what is a must to have. If you need someone with experience, and I want someone with experience because I want someone with experience to deal with the customer for instance. I have one role that to me is senior or at least someone with quite relevant experience so they can have this type of conversation with the customer. But also experience in life to deal with difficult conversations, negotiations. And that is someone that from university usually they don't. I support what is my mandatory criteria. And one of the mistakes I see in my company because they don't find candidates, they remove that. Because they want to have more candidates. They don't want to have more candidates that are not suitable for the position. And so to me it's like you need to be specific on what you need. Of course you need to know if you have flexibility or not. Then what I found interesting is like when someone is new into the interview world is usually very demanding. Like yeah I want someone with experience. I want someone with 10 years experience and who's dealing with this type. Yeah, yeah, that is your ideal candidate. But it's usually never going to reach you. So to me it's like okay what is the minimum experience you would accept? And I found like when people because that happens whenever I have this new... When I started to involve because obviously I got that position, that leader position in my team. It was an existing team. And the previous leader was not inviting people to interviews. And I started to do that. And the first time that people got involved there and I was asking okay what do you need? What kind of skills do you need for this position? They always answered with the ideal candidate. And that is if we attach to the ideal candidate we are never going to hire. So you need way more flexibility when hiring people and think how to make them grow. And one of the things that I'm trying to do is like I have to... Or the company but you as a leader you need to give that feedback to the company. You need to size your team in a way you understand like there is a percentage of the time. There is not going to be productivity. It's going to be just the people to grow and catch up. Because you are not going to have this perfect engineer. So when you plan A, a perfect engineer will do this job in one year. Okay you will have a non-perfect engineer that will do it in one year and a half or two years. And you need to plan accordingly. It's difficult but knowing like okay you may need more resources for the same job because the market is difficult. You will not have the ideal candidate. Make the plans and then accept people with less experience and make a plan to make them grow as fast as possible. So I hear two things here like to look also with the perspective in the interview or in the hiring process how to grow these people. Correct. And another one but also be a little bit careful about this point because if you have too many employees like that in your team you need some time actually to grow that. Correct. Okay very good two points. It's difficult to find that balance. Yes. And it's difficult to say how much I wait until I have someone with experience and I hire this one. There is people who's hiring anyone from the industry say okay I'm not going to find the ideal candidate. I get almost the first one who's applying. I don't like to do that. At least I like to check a few things. Even if someone has no experience I really want to see if that guy could really learn fast or not and how is the communication compatibility with the rest of the team because okay the guy could be very good on his own or her own but needs to work with other people. This part I always remind managers actually when I work together when I work in HR that bad hiring is the worst decision. Could be the worst decision because later it is very difficult for the person itself or the employee because he's coming with changing a lot of things actually. It happened to me once. Yes. Luckily not much. Then you will have a very, very big issue. It's very difficult for everyone. Yes. So it's a time and effort you invested on the hiring. So there is a probation period to understand okay if there is a fit or not and definitely you have to use that period but still it could be very hard for both sides and especially if you are not let's say good enough for this job. It's a tough thing to say. And how you benefit from AI nowadays for example you give one hint like generating some interview questions that is also what is the content I will put to the training but what else? It depends how much you are allowed to use AI. The problem in my sector is we are still not allowed to use much. I see more and more. For instance if you are allowed to use almost everything you can use AI live during the interview and it will give you hints during the interview as well. It can just transcribe the text. It can tell you what could be the next question. It could give you some hints there but we don't need to go that sophisticated. You can ask as we are saying questions what to ask on the interview but sorry to delete a little bit on the question here. What I found with AI is some people may focus only on those questions and the idea is you have an interview. There will be a conversation. That guy is going to answer. So if you cannot have AI to follow this conversation we can support you. You are the one doing it and not focus just AI told me to ask this. Maybe it's not that important to ask that question that AI was giving me more to follow on that path. With keywords you can create something of wholeness in the whole text. Yeah, I think the candidate can use AI even more. And that is something I would say never happened to me although I have my doubts one with precisely the candidate that didn't work. It was a candidate that during the interview the text was interpreted. I don't know if he was using AI or not but he was giving very good answers and when he started to work the level of maturity, self-awareness was not as good as it was in the interview. And interview, you made online interview? Online interview. After COVID most of the interviews are online. I saw a lot of videos in YouTube that in online interviews you have chatty people here and you are entering your even recording the question lively by the way and chatty people give you the answers. For the candidates definitely they can use AI for some things although they should not risk to just give the answer from AI because it's not always correct. Yes, this is right but it may work a lot. But then... But from the hiring point of view it could be used in earlier stages. It could be helping you on how to define the job opening position for instance. So you can use AI precisely to be more precise on the job description you want. You could use AI to somehow... But again it depends what are the restrictions you have. You also have some privacy data that you need to... Some privacy laws that you need to be compliant with or you cannot upload any CV. But there are tools, there are ways to do that. AI can help you to filter or sort out those candidates or even to find candidates on the internet. The thing is in my company we are not allowed to use AI for almost anything. So the only thing I was using AI was more about preparing those questions. And I already have a list. So at the end it's like I have a set of questions already depending what I want to research. So one question for instance I like is can you describe me your team, your current team, if someone is working or starting maybe your colleagues. And depending on the answer I can tell a lot if that person is people oriented or not. And it's not about the team itself, it's about how he is answering about the team, about his passion about the team or just telling how many they have. And you can see a lot from that answer. So this is just one example and I have this type of questions, I have a list. And then depending on how the conversation is going I ask one or the other questions. And I don't need AI for this. I had a manager now I remember in my first years. He asked if you would be an animal. What do you think? And he also tried to understand something about the characteristics of people. It's about personality. Personality, but I remember one candidate cried a lot. Like what did you want to say me? What stupid question is this? Because she is probably very stressful and this is a very unpredictable question. So she started to cry. And do you want to say me animal? Why? What are you trying to do here? She thought that she is in a stress interview. It was not like that, but I remember always this candidate. But yes, I like those questions. If you don't take the answer granted, if you don't take the answer and give your decision. If you have some idea about the answer, then continue to ask some questions to make it correct, let me say. If you have a candidate. Yes, if you ask what kind of animal you are going to be. If they say lion for example. If you think that, okay, why my manager, for example, asked why, what do you like about lion, why you want to be a lion. And if they said, for example, they are leader and then instead of giving decision earlier, like, okay, she's a leader, she can lead a team, and continue to ask some more questions to understand it very well. Because there could be a lot of reasons why they told you lion or not. They have very nice hair. Aesthetic, yes. He's a highly aesthetic candidate. There could be a lot of reasons and this is the bias part actually, that if you have kind of assumption about candidate, then check with at least two questions, not only one. If you think that he's a good team player or not, based on this answer, for example, based on this question, when they answer it, ask one more question. I always recommend to myself. And you can use chart GPT, AI, whatever model you want to use in order to prepare that. Like, okay. Prepare the questions. You can ask, okay, how could be myself biased on the answer? How can I prevent this bias? How can I make questions that are going to help me to prevent this bias? Yes. And you can try to use AI for this, in order to find the way to ask things that are really useful for you. For me, I'm always using the technique open questions. Open-ended questions actually to the candidate. But yes, especially if you are aware some of your biases, like for me, for example, if the person is very social, I can affect from this. I know. So I always, I'm careful about that point. Like, ask more, ask more. So it is the best way to be aware about your own biases, what affects you in a candidate and ask some more open questions. Yeah. And maybe if our candidates or our listeners, if our listeners want more, we could do like a video how to use AI. It would be great because I had a video about ATS systems and it was very, very helpful for people. I got very good feedback. So let's do this. I didn't publish. I can't publish a video I did about how to use AI to tailor your CV. Okay. And how to make it compatible with ATS systems actually. Okay. But I'm thinking now from the higher… Higher than one perspective. How to use AI because, as I said, I use it for the questions, but there are many more things. And for the example, here I could definitely… And I was also curious about when you told that the candidate probably the questions were very in-depth in the interview, but then you hired him or her and you didn't see this maturity. As a leader, this is a leadership question. What did you do in that case as a manager when you recognized it? Well, I mean, I was still thinking how… Because I wanted him, that candidate, to have a more… A position with more interaction with the customer. And I need someone who had this maturity to discuss with customers. Customers, you may have many different types of customers and sometimes they are not answering in a proper way. And you need someone whose temper and hand can guide the conversations and negotiations despite maybe not the best behavior from the customers. And then when I saw that, definitely say, okay, I cannot use this person for this role. Can I still make use out of him for more technical things? And then I was trying to give him the chance. There were other problems at the end. That person was hiding some information and it was also then not fully understanding some things of how or what we do in our team. So, I decided not to continue after the probation period. Okay. But the first step was to me, can I still use this person? I mean, I still have a big team. I have needs in other projects, all the same projects, but other needs. Can I still make use of this guy? So, not just discarding. So, that was the first attempt. And then when I saw he was not good for those tasks here, I decided not to continue there. Okay. And the fourth thing, that's a good point and very interesting point. So, I was curious actually what you did, how you communicate, if you communicate or not. We can discuss about that, because definitely I was not communicating a few things. For two reasons. One, it could be, okay, not to affect the self-esteem sometimes, but the other one was also I didn't want to affect how he continues, because I wanted to see his authentic himself. How he really is. And to me, that was more important during the probation period than say, okay, try to correct this. Because I have other cases, you know, the teams, it was not myself, but they told what is the problem and the guy fixed the problem during the probation period. After the probation period, he saw himself. And then they had the problem for a long time. And to me, I prefer not to say something. There are some character traits that I didn't like from that person and I was not telling that. Because it was, okay, I want to see how he is evolving here. Another good point for how to really use the probation period to continue your evaluation about the candidate. Because there are still candidates actually, even you hire. Very good hint in probation period to use this time to continue this evaluation, to continue the interview actually. Somehow. Somehow, yes. Ideally, depending on the job. If you have a job that someone can learn more or less quickly, you can already test the technical skills, you can already test something. Here we struggle because we go into a job that is very specific, that is not, let's say, every project is different, so it's not like we can say, hey, you come from another company, you use your knowledge immediately in two or three weeks. So it takes a long time to learn the technical skills. So to me it's more about discovering what is the reasoning process, what is the accountability this guy has, what is the mental or the mind map that that guy has and is adapting or not to the way we work. And that takes time and maybe it was not the best. I mean, I was maybe not fully transparent, that you have this to manage to this or not. Because, again, to me it's like I don't want to influence how he works. It's like I was telling him, hey, we're still evaluating. If you stay or not, you have to do this task. And he did the task, for instance, but he was making mistakes again that we told him in the past. And to me it's like he's not learning about some of the mistakes. And another thing, it was about the attitude, it's like how whenever there is a problem, how he was facing the problem, how much responsibility he was taking. Competence and skills can be learned, but attitude needs a lot of time. So the guy was very motivated, but he didn't have the attitude I wanted. Yes, okay. And we are a little bit out of time, but I really want to ask two more questions, if you also have time. One of them, are you using internal value, especially in an urgent situation, that in hiring process, in finding this right source, managers sometimes panic a lot and they lose their creativity for source in general. I mean internal hiring. This is one of the hiring source I always remind for managers. So what we did? Did you look internally? So the company is always looking internally. As a manager, hiring manager, do you have any influence there? Not really, not in my position, but it's a very specific how we organize and we have like a matrix organization. We have the project, we have the departments, a number of departments. The projects have more influence in that aspect. But to me it was the opposite. It's like they wanted me to put engineers from other projects into a more urgent project. And to me it was not the solution. So again, there was not hiring per se, but we were borrowing, let's say, engineers from the same project, so they know what they are talking about, but from other functionalities. And that was easier to adapt that going and take people from that functionality, but from other project that is very different. So we have the capability to discuss and pool resources on the same project, but they are doing different things to adapt what they are doing. We can hire internally, but how the company is doing is like I cannot push anyone, so we have an open position and the people have to apply internally, so everyone can see the open position. Ah, okay, you have such kind of structure. Yeah, so in human resources, usually it's an email to everyone and we have these positions internally, just have a look. And the people can apply internally. And that happens. Usually, the changes I see, not always, but it happens mostly with networking. It's like you were working in a project, they know you on the project, and now I have this position, I like how you work, why did you join us? Do you attend the position? And then they make you move. So I did that as well in the past, so I have some margin. It was like we have different, let's say, companies inside the group, and there was some people who was working in another company, it was a similar job, and I tell, hey, I have this position, I think it will be more interesting for you in the future, would you like to join? And they applied and they moved. That's another question, actually, but you, as a manager, having such kind of candidates pooled in your mind, like internally also, if there are some candidates as a manager that you think he or she can be interesting for the position, then you can ask, or also from the external candidates, when you make the interview, it's not matching 100% to your position, but attitude-wise, it's fitting with company values, and to the company. How are you tracking those candidates? Do you have such kind of database, pool of candidates? Well, I mean, at least in Germany, we have to delete the CVs after six months. Yes, legally. Legally, so we cannot have that pool. What we usually do is, like if we are aware of our colleague having needs, and we think that could fit better on that team, we usually say, hey, I have a candidate I think that will fit in your team, would you like to have on the CV? And then we pass it across. Because if we keep the CV for the next position, most of the time those six months have expired, and legally it would be a problem for me to... But you recommend giving company to others. Otherwise, if you don't have that legal recommendation, it's always good to have like a list saying, this candidate was good, but it was not fitting for this reason, for this opportunity in the future, make it happen. That is something that happened to me, but legally I cannot do it. That's right. But it happened to me like, hey, this person wants to work in this type of project, now I want to have open position in this type of project, and in the future I have, so I will contact them. And how do you think this hiring process will evolve in upcoming years? Yes, I mean, you know, I'm very... I believe AI is going to take over many roles, and I think AI is going to be more and more involved in the hiring process. Like doing the first... Doing all the basically job description, preparation, the advertising, doing the first sorting of this APS system, but doing it even more automatically, and even doing interviews at the beginning. And do you think that as a hiring manager you will interview with robots? If I will be interviewed with robots? Yes, with robots that you will hire to your team. Oh, that is very far in the future. I think that will take way longer. No, I don't think you interview robots, no. I don't think I will interview robots, of course, because robots will have a specification with their products. Robots will interview robots, probably. I think AI as a robot, I don't think you need like a physical robot. You just need someone who looks human on the screen and can react in real time. Nowadays the technology is not there, but we are getting there. Now you could have an almost real-time conversation with AI. You have chat GPT, you open, you talk to chat GPT, they answer. Almost the big models can do that, so they need a lot of power. Do that with video and looking human. This is still very resourceful or resource consuming, but it will happen. So if you do an interview online, you could have a person that is not a person. Nowadays, yes, they are discussing about this point a lot, about biases. Yeah. Could it be... The thing is, how much will you trust AI to select the candidates? Yeah, yeah. And AI will evolve, and it will capture all the micro gestures that other people are doing, and it will get even way more information than a human. The thing is, still, will you trust that? Because they may capture many things, but even if you think a candidate is not 100% convinced about this job, it doesn't mean you hire him and he's not doing an excellent job. Yes, that's right. And maybe AI is capturing all those symptoms, like, should I hire him or not? Yes, that's right. And sometimes, as a human, you just take a little faith and you discuss. And at the beginning, AI, I think, will not be good at that, but within years, they could be really good, maybe, at some point. Where do you think the human touch, then, can be? If AI becomes that good that you don't see the difference with a human, you are having the human touch there. The thing is, what I see is when you have to work in person. Still, if you are talking about robots, like, they really look and behave like humans, then we are talking, like, some years in the future. I'm not going to go into our scenario, because it's a little bit scary as well. A little bit scary. Very scary. So, I would say, before that, before having robots look like humans and behave like humans and you cannot make the difference, I think the difference will be when you work in person. And that means the human touch will come. I think we still have some years until AI has this human touch digitally. So, in leadership, for instance, you need a lot of human connections. You need to understand the needs of the other person and the person needs to trust you. You need to build that trust. You need to have that conversation. In order to understand what is the real problem, you need to understand what is the real problem your team is going through and really be able to help them. And I think we still have some years until AI is really getting there. I made a research about that point, because everyone in the Internet, there are some news about AI is giving the final decision about hiring. It is not that, actually. When I searched, there were a lot of legal issues there. Still, AI interview is not allowed. So, a lot of friends of mine are sending me, like, AI recruiter is making the interview. But when I checked… I don't know if in a country, China could perfectly be doing it. I have no idea. Could be, maybe. It is coming. I'm sure about that. I think it will come. But currently, I don't have any experience that AI interview and give the final decision. Still, APS is catching the keywords. For sure, there are some models there, but not as an AI interview and give the final decision. Still not there. Still not there. But it is coming. I think it will come. Now, I have my human design. I am manager of training. So, I really want to share all my knowledge within HR. I worked with hiring managers a lot. Thousands of interviews together I did. And I will definitely build insight in my training. Thank you very much. Yeah, very good. Especially the team interview. I forgot about that part, but that was great. I remember. And also how you use the candidates, actually, you recommend for other positions. Thank you very much. Welcome. Happy to help. Thanks a lot. I am really keen to see that training you are doing about hiring. And I would like to see you adding AI to there. Yes, yes. To see how we can use AI, probably what we discussed here. Yes, I like to add S3, because it is now, when I started to do this a couple of months ago, it was not so popular. No, but now, for instance, if I would be hiring here, I would have maybe, and maybe I try next time. I have my phone with AI. I need to see what to do. But what I can do now, for instance, and it is something I was thinking to do, I can record my voice, only my voice. Whenever I have a computer, I can select if I am recording the input from my voice or the output from the computer from the people who are being interviewed, the candidates. So, for privacy reasons, I am not recording the candidate's voice. Only your own voice? Only my own voice. And with that, I can already see a little bit, because I can myself. And that will help me a lot. That is one of the things I was saying. It will help me a lot to think, oh, it is only my voice recorded here. So, I should somehow repeat the answer of the candidate. And that is active reasoning. Not just repeating exactly the text, but trying to understand, rephrase, and see what we can do. So, if I use AI in this way, I will improve my active reasoning. And maybe AI could help me, even if it is in real time, to tell me what to ask next, or I am having some bias. Or if the candidate is giving, if the candidate, you can understand if this is his or her own answer or not. Yeah, but this is a part of the active reasoning. I am thinking on top of the active reasoning, AI can help me because I am currently talking to AI. Or even, and that is something I am always suggesting even more to the candidates, it is like record their voice during the interview. And doing the same, it is like you repeat the question. So, you make sure you understand the question. And then you give the answer. And you have that recorded. You pass it to AI. And AI is going to be your communication coach. And say, hey, this is an interview I need. Can you just check my communication stat? Can you check my answers? Can you tell me tips to improve? Like HR assistant is giving you feedback. Yeah. Like HR colleague is giving you... It doesn't have to be real time, but for communication, to improve your communication, your skills could be very good. And again, because you are recording only your voice, you want the question to be recorded, so you need to repeat the question. But you can use that for rephrasing and making sure you understand the question. So, I think if both parties use AI that way, it could improve the understanding during the interview. Yes. Yes. And it is not AI itself. It is just the purpose of, oh, I want to make sure there is a third party that understands the process. Let's do it in my training. Yeah, really. Yeah. Because I will add to each module, to the end of each module, how you can use AI to improve your interview techniques. Yeah. And for the first part, how to prepare with using AI the best job description. Because there are four modules, job description, making interviews, finding sources, and some additional tips and biases, something like this. For each, in the end of each module, I design something like this. And very good idea to give an example in the training itself, how to do it. Yeah. Very good idea. Okay. But I will show you when I finish all those. Good. Yeah, we can even do a video about that. And we can also use this video, but I'm not sure. I was always like... We don't have to use the video if you don't want. You can use it for short. For short, yes, I can use. Only you, like... Yes, you can use. Why not? There are very good points, actually, that for two minutes, I can use. And for this, I'm thinking... Yeah, it's just... We can do the video. It's like you have the interview. You have your... Maybe the headset. So you have the AI recording. So at least it's a tab that the people could have. You can have the phone. You can have the AI. And people are doing it. I know because I've seen videos on people trying to prevent the candidates to use AI. And to me, it's like, why to prevent the candidates to use AI? They are going to use AI. You cannot prevent it. So instead of that, it's like, hey, you can definitely ask, how are you going to use AI in this situation? Yes. Probably recording the noise, so don't play too much. It will be noisy. To you, actually, yes. You even... So I would ask... Because there is the elephant in the room. Why not? So to me, instead of avoiding AI, it's like, okay, I'm assuming you're going to use AI during the interview. How are you going to use it? Very good question. And I'm assuming you will use AI during your work. How are you going to use AI? Very good question. A very good short. And some people might say, no, I'm not using AI during the interview. Okay. It's okay. Why not? Why not? Yes, that's another question. Yeah. About showing, learning the ambition. I mean, they can say, definitely not, because I want to be myself, and know myself without AI, and then... The answer is, again, based on answers, you know, that would be... It's up to your decision on that. Yeah. But I would love to have the people saying, yes, I'm using AI. I'm recording myself. I'm going to improve my communication style. Yes. And if there is... And I use AI to summarize the interview and have points I can research later, things I didn't understand, and I want to make a research later. And, for instance, I have a nice engineer who I hired, and after the interview, he was coming back with topics. Oh, we're talking about this software. I researched about that, and then, yeah, I could do things about that. And you could use AI about this. Like, hey, I don't know about this software, but you don't have to answer during the interview, but I did use it to get a summary. I didn't understand, and it's learning about different topics. It shows definitely learning ambition. Yeah. Open for new things. Yeah. A lot of confidence is there. Yeah. Thank you very much. You're welcome. I just... My intention was, okay, let me ask some points, and now, really, I got a lot of things which I will improve in the content today, not tomorrow, because tomorrow, I will record. So, we start there? Yes.