Izzo, Sara Structured Session

Ben, in this conversation, the speaker thanks Ben for signing a release for a recorded session. They discuss Ben's anxiety about his recent promotion without a college degree. Ben talks about his childhood, including the death of his parents in a car accident when he was 13. He describes his relationship with his parents, his friends, and his aunt and uncle whom he lived with after his parents' death. They also talk about Ben's school troubles, including suspensions and smoking. Good afternoon, Ben. It's great to see you again. Before we get started, I want to thank you for signing the written release to record today's restructured session. Just a reminder, this practice session is being recorded, and you can stop this recording at any time. First, I want to say that I'm glad to see you again. Just to recap to our last session, you were telling me that you were an investment banker and recently got a promotion, but this promotion has given you anxiety because you don't have a college degree like your colleagues. I remember we briefly talked about your 20s and how you felt like you squandered them. Can you tell me about your childhood? Well, yeah, I mean, I guess it was normal for the most part, but when I was 13, both my parents died in a car accident, and I ended up having to live with my aunt and uncle for a little while until I turned 18, I guess. I'm so sorry to hear that. It must have been a very difficult and traumatic experience. Yeah. Tell me what your relationship was like before they had passed. It was great, you know. I played sports. We always went to those. They always made time to make it to my games and stuff like that. I didn't have any problems at all. What did your father do? He was a teacher. Oh, what grade did he teach? He taught 10th grade at the nearby high school where we lived. Did you go to the same school that he taught? No, no. When they died, I had to go live with my aunt and uncle, and they lived in a different state. So when your father taught, what school did you go to? Say that again? So when your father taught school, what school did you go to? The elementary school that was connected to it, but I never had him in class or really saw him in the building or anything like that. Did your friends know him? What was your relationship like with your friends? Did you have a lot of them? I had a couple friends. I guess they already made kind of jokes about having my dad at the school and they would tell on me and stuff, but it wasn't anything like really serious. But I had a couple good friends that we hung out, played video games all the time, and they could come over to the house and stuff. We were good friends up until my parents died. How did you keep in contact them after your parents passed? A little bit of texting and calling, but we didn't really stay in touch after, I guess a year or so. We kind of really fell out of touch. So what was your mother like? She was nice. I guess your typical mother, she stayed at home and cooked and cleaned, but she always played with me when I was really young. She was always the one that made sure Dad kept the schedule to make it to my games and stuff like that. She kind of ran everybody's lives, but she was great. That sounds like your mom was pretty hands-on. Do you have any cultural aspects, relationships with your grandparents, cousins? Yeah, we saw each other for the holidays and stuff. It was my mom's sister that I ended up going to live with after they had passed. I knew them well enough that they'd been around. We usually saw each other three or four times a year and stuff. So it was a decently well-connected, extended family. I guess I had just your typical childhood up until they died. What holidays did you celebrate? Did you have a specific religion that you guys celebrated or practiced? It was the Christian holidays, and we were all Christian, but we weren't really practicing Christians or anything. But it was Thanksgiving and Christmas and Easter and stuff like that, usually something during the summer. Sounds like you had a pretty supportive childhood, and it seems like you have fond memories of your parents and had some friends. What was your parents' relationship like with one another from your perspective as a kid? It seemed good. I never really heard them argue or anything like that. They seemed good, and I never really thought about it, if I can be honest. Can you tell me how your parents passed? They died in a car accident. Can I ask what happened? They were on their way home from dinner, and it was raining, and somebody ran a red light as they were going through and T-boned into them. So sorry to hear that. I can't imagine what that experience would be like. How old again were you when that happened? Thirteen. What is your memory of that night or the day? Well, they were out, so they had a babysitter. I don't really remember what time it was. It was really, really late. But I remember her waking me up and telling me that I had to come downstairs and talk to my aunt on the phone. And so we went downstairs, and on the phone, I remember she was crying a lot, and she couldn't really get her words out fully. I remember that made me start crying. I felt really scared. And then finally, she was able to say it, but she kind of blurted it out. It was like the words all kind of just tumbled out of her mouth at once, so I didn't really understand what she said. I did, but I didn't. Then she said it again, and it still just wasn't really processing. And she said it one more time, and I just put the phone down, and I remember I went back upstairs. And I think I fell asleep. I really don't even remember after that moment until there was light in my room again. Sounds like you were in shock, and it was a normal reaction. How does it feel talking about that that night? Not good, obviously, right? It is easier to talk about now than it was then. I guess it's just not something that I really look to talk about. Were you unable to talk about it at that time? I was really not able to talk for a while. I didn't really say much to anybody. I didn't go completely mute or anything like that. I just stopped interacting with anybody. And I probably – I think maybe I talked to my aunts about it one time in the entire time that I lived with them. So when you moved in with your aunt and your uncle, what was your relationship like with them before you moved in? It was good. She was always really sweet and kind, and my uncle was always funny and playing around with all the kids. So it was a good relationship before. Your aunt and uncle have kids? You have cousins that you lived with? Yeah, they had two kids. What are their names, and what are they like? The older one is Alyssa, and she's studying to be a doctor and really prioritized and career-driven. And I don't say those are bad things, but that's kind of like the mold that she falls into. And then the younger one, Jimmy, he is kind of like a goof, I guess. He never really seemed to take anything too seriously. And he's in college, but I don't even know that he has a major or anything like that. So, yeah, kind of polar opposites of each other, I would say. How old are you in relation to them? Alyssa, I think, was like 10 when I moved in, and Jimmy was like 7. So are you guys still in touch? Did you have a strong relationship while you were living there? No, I mean, yeah, we're still in touch, but no, I wouldn't say we had really a strong relationship or anything. Because, like I said, I kind of stopped interacting with everybody after it happened for a long time. So, no, I wouldn't say I had a strong relationship unless with anybody in the house. Not that things are on bad terms or anything like that. Sounds like you had a good support system, but you still were a little disconnected. Alyssa, you mentioned, and I thought it was really funny, you said that she was pretty career-driven and made sure it wasn't like a bad thing. But what kind of student were you before your parents passed? I was a straight-A student all the way until they passed. What were your grades like when they passed? After they passed? I did just enough to not be held back. Did you get in any trouble at school? Yeah. I averaged at least one suspension a year. I would skip school a ton. Yeah, I did get in a lot of trouble at school. Name an event that you got in trouble in school. I just used to do kind of stupid things, I guess. I used to pride myself on – we used to have to run a mile in school as part of gym class. Every year, everybody had to run a mile. And I used to kind of pride myself on getting out of running that mile. And I had been able to get – from like 7th grade through 11th grade, I'd been able to get out of running that mile. But in 12th grade, it finally caught up to me. And I put up this big fight about having to do it, and they threatened me with not letting me graduate. And so I go do the mile after school, and it's like four laps around the football field. And they just got like this student teacher who is like monitoring. And I'm making up the mile with another person who missed – who was like not there that day. And when I get through the second lap and I'm passing the student teacher, I guess making a joke, trying to be funny, I say, I need a cigarette, and I pull out my pack of cigarettes out of my pocket, and I light a cigarette in front of them. No. And, you know, like I finished the run with the cigarette, and he didn't say anything. He just recorded my time. And then I came to school the next day, and like right in the beginning of – or right in the middle of first period, I got called to the office. And they were just like so confused about the situation, why I even did it, and I didn't really even have an answer other than it was just – I thought it was funny. And I got suspended for three days for that. Oh, wow. For tobacco on school property. Wow, yeah, that is a pretty significant rule. Yeah, that was one of them. A couple of others were like fights and stuff like that. Did you smoke? How old were you when you first started smoking? I was 13. That was before or after your parents passed? After. After. Where'd you get your first cigarette from? Did your uncle or aunt smoke? Yeah, my uncle smoked. And your parents smoked? No. I guess really my uncle was like the only one that smoked. And I just – I can remember there was one family dinner. It was like something that we were doing during the summer. And him and my aunt were in an argument of some kind. I was like 10 or 11 at the time, and I didn't really know what they were arguing about. But I remember he went to the side of the house, and he lit a cigarette, and I saw the look on his face. And it went from this blood-filled face, just red and full of rage, down to just a totally calm person. And so I definitely started stealing cigarettes from him. And then, you know, that kind of got caught on. I had to figure out how to get cigarettes otherwise, but I started smoking when I was 13. So it sounds like you saw a sense of calm in your uncle, and you were looking for the same effect? Yeah, definitely. How do you stay calm today? I smoke cigarettes. I smoke weed. I don't drink that often. I don't really take any more serious drugs than just weed these days. But yeah, I still smoke. Do you have a prescription? Yeah. Okay. So are there any other physical activities you might have that help you relieve stress, or any type of other ways that you kind of relax on a regular basis or go every year, maybe? Well, so I mean, I guess for physical activity, I just ride my bike. You know, I don't live very far from where I work, so I do ride my bike to work and home. That's good. For... What was it? You said... I mean, I watch like... In terms of actual relaxation, I watch a ton of movies. What kind of movies do you watch? Whatever I can find, to be honest. I don't remember a particular preference. What's the last movie you've watched, and what did you think about it? The last movie that I watched was... Give me a second to think what I actually did watch. So the last movie that I watched, not necessarily a new movie, I watched The Burbs with Tom Hanks. And it's like a comedy from the 80s when Tom Hanks still made comedies. Yeah. And I watched that movie like once every couple months. Like all of Tom Hanks' movies, that's probably the one that I've seen the most. So yeah, The Burbs. And I love it. I love that movie for what I think of it, I think it's one of the funniest movies ever. Like nostalgia. I still find new jokes in it, still to this day. There is a little bit of nostalgia, but I find new jokes to it still to this day. That's great to hear. What else do you do? What else do I do? Not much else. I mean, I guess I do have... You mentioned I do have a ritual or something, like going somewhere. I still go to the family holiday dinners and stuff. So I usually only go to either Thanksgiving or Christmas. So it is the holidays. We just have Thanksgiving. What did you do? Did you go see them? No, I'm going to be going to see them on Christmas because the... something was going on with my cousin and we weren't able to go there for Thanksgiving. So for Thanksgiving I went to a friend's house and we had dinner there. Do you usually have a good time with your family around the holidays? Everyone's family dynamics are different. What are your holiday times like with them? Yeah, I mean, for the most part, they're pretty normal. There's occasionally... I guess, no, they're not really. My family likes to... not all of them, but enough people and the louder people. And the louder people will reference things that you've done in your past that might be embarrassing. And it's not just directed towards me. There are others that they'll target for it. The last time that I was there, they brought up... so my family doesn't know what's going on with my job or anything. They don't know about that type of stuff, but they do know that I dropped out of school. So they really like to bring that up in comparison to some of the other kids that have actually graduated school. I don't want to say sometimes. That happens at least once every holiday dinner, that somebody is getting picked at over some failing that they have and compared to another kid in the family that's doing well. Well, you've got a big promotion. I know you're worried about your credentials at work, but your family knows that you don't have those credentials, but yet you still earn that promotion. Are you looking forward to telling everyone this Christmas? No, I am not. Some of my family isn't actually stupid. They're going to have questions, I worry. Maybe they won't. I don't know. But I feel like they're going to have questions about it because they certainly know about everything leading up to maybe a year in my life before getting this job that I have. I'm probably not going to tell them that I got this promotion because I can't be certain that ... I don't know what would happen. I don't know that they would blackmail me or extort me or report me or anything like that, but I guess it would just be another piece of information that they would have to pick at me with or something. So, no, I'm not looking forward to that possibility at all. Then it sounds like you're really struggling with this anxiety at work and with your family dealing with this situation that you have with your job. Your past experiences, I think, are really showing me that you're very strong and resilient. You've dealt with a very traumatic situation in your past. I mean, you still managed to graduate high school and you still maintain these relationships with your family, which is really tremendous. Myself, I have to say, I haven't dealt with anything nearly as traumatic as you, and I've been unable to hold those types of relationships consistently, but you have, and I think that's really commendable on your part. Knowing this anxiety that you have with this situation, how do you feel about going back to school and what that experience would be like for you? I mean, I wish it was that easy to just go back to school. I'm fairly certain it would be a very easy experience for me. I wouldn't really have an issue with getting a degree. It's just that I think I brought it up the last time that I need a specific college's diploma to work at where I'm working at. I am never going to be able to get into that institution. I can't see myself going back to school. I can't see myself going back to college. I can't see myself going back to college. I can't see myself going back to college. I can't see a future that I don't lose everything unless nobody finds out. I think that that's the only way, which I don't know that that's even a possibility. I'm pretty sure that somebody is going to find out eventually. What is your goal, Ben? Right now, the short term would be just to stay where I am and keep what I have. I don't know what my long-term goal would be. I never thought that it would go this far. When I worked my way into that interview, I didn't even think that that was going to work. When I started making my first trade, I didn't think that those were going to work. I didn't think any of this was actually going to work the way that it had worked. I don't know a goal. It sounds like you're not happy in the situation that you're in. Is that my understanding, Ben? I definitely have a lot of anxiety. Your anxiety is stemming from your attachment to you being at this particular firm. What is that attachment? Outside of the materialistic aspects of comfort, what do you think that route and drive is? To stay there? I went there because it was a very prestigious firm. If you talk to anybody on the street, they'll know that this is one of the top places to be. Again, I didn't think that it was going to work out the way that it did. I didn't think that it was going to work out the way that it did. I didn't think that it was going to work out the way that it did. I didn't think that it was going to work out the way that it did. I didn't think that it was going to work out the way that it did. I didn't think that it was going to work out the way that it did. It's hard to describe. Even though they didn't knowingly take it, they took a chance on me. I guess I have a sense of loyalty to that. You have a loyalty to them, but you also are in fear of them finding out who you are. Aren't you already breaking a loyalty to them by being dishonest? Yeah, that's a very fair thing to say. Knowing that the consequences are you not being able to be there, you're unhappy being there, how do you sustain this with a stressful lifestyle and a not so healthy one? I don't know. That's why I'm coming to therapy. What are you willing to change in this process for therapy? What are you looking to get out of it? I don't know what to change. If I could get rid of the anxiety, that's what I'm hoping to get out of coming to therapy is getting rid of the anxiety. What would I have to change to get rid of the anxiety? I think we're going to discover that together. I do think that there are some therapeutic lifestyle changes that you can make. Have you tried to stop smoking in the past? Yeah, I've tried stopping smoking a bunch of times. What's your success been with those, and what type of avenues have you tried to stop smoking? Have you used a patch or gum? Every avenue you can imagine, except for hypnotism. I don't think that's actually going to work. Every other avenue you can imagine, I have tried. The success rate has been pretty minimal because I'm still smoking. I went like eight months one time without a cigarette. That's really good. You should be proud of yourself for that. That's a really long time, actually. I know other things that can even help you quit smoking, like maybe yoga and learning how to take deep breaths, because that can really help with your moments of anxiety when you're at work or even when you're with your family during the holidays. I totally, totally think we can do that. Well, I see that we're getting close to the end of our time. You really have been a very strong individual, Ben. I commend you. You've had a really difficult experience as a child that you've come a long way, and you've been very successful in your career. I think that we can try and possibly, after the holidays, go over some possible lifestyle changes that we can work on that can maybe help motivate you for solutions long term with your job. How does that sound? Yeah, that sounds good. I look forward to seeing you next week. You too. Thank you.