Milka/Sam podcast

In this episode of Elegant Victorian Crimes, the host discusses the controversial crime involving Nora Helmer's forgery. Nora forged her father's signature on a loan document to help her husband, Thorvald, but was blackmailed by Kroxad. The relationship between Nora and Thorvald deteriorated, and Nora was eventually charged with forgery. The host interviews Mrs. Lynn, who believes Nora made a mistake in her marriage. The host also mentions similar cases of forgery in the modern era. The host and Mrs. Lynn disagree on whether Nora deserved punishment. The episode ends with a sponsor advertisement for emotional masquerade masks. Hi, I'm your favorite host, Milka. I'm Sam, the other one. As you know, on Elegant Victorian Crimes, we dive into the illegal actions committed in the Victorian age. On this episode of Elegant Victorian Crimes, we will discuss and debate the controversial crime involving Nora Helmer's forgery. In 1879, during the festive month of December, leading up to Christmas and Copenhagen, Nora Helmer, the wife of Thorvald Helmer, was making ornaments to surprise her children and her husband on Christmas Day. Or was she? Because a cat somehow destroyed the ornaments. The maid claimed she was making ornaments. But the real witness to Nora's actions around Christmas was Mrs. Lynn. According to Mrs. Lynn, Nora was working extra to pay off an illegal loan. Nora forged her dad's signature on a document involving a loan because he was on his deathbed. But why would she forge the signature? Keep in mind, at this time, women could not have a bank account or get money from the bank without permission from their husbands. What would make Nora hide this loan from Thorvald? Seriously, what would drive her to commit a terrible crime? Obviously, her love for Thorvald. If their love was real, then she would have never lied to him. Earlier in the year, Thorvald suffered from a terrible illness and the doctors recommended going on a trip. Nora, being the loving wife she is, took out a loan without telling Thorvald because she knew he hated borrowing money. Nor was it to save his ego. It was later revealed that Kroxad was the one giving the loan to Nora. Kroxad was on the verge of losing his job at the bank where Thorvald works. Once he found out that she committed forgery, he blackmailed her by threatening to tell Thorvald if she didn't convince her husband to let him keep his job. Because Kroxad was blackmailing Nora, the relationship she had with Thorvald started to weaken. Their relationship was already ruined because it's fake. Her intentions for her crimes can be debated, but either way, she was charged with forgery. The law defines forgery as the making of a fake document, the modification of an existing document, or unauthorized signing of a signature. To get more insight of the story, today we have brought Mrs. Lynn as a witness. She claims Nora told her that she forged a document in place of her dying father. Here she is now. Hi Mrs. Lynn, how are you? Hello, I am well. I have just returned from my new job at the bank. So, what is your relationship with Nora? She is an old friend of mine. I recently met her. Right, but what do you really think about Nora? How do you really feel about her actions? Oh, she is very naive and should take my advice more often. She is still young and has made a mistake in her marriage. Her intolerant love was built on deception and filled with lies. Yes, her actions were illegal, but there is more to the situation than you think. What did Nora say to you exactly? It was quite a shock when she revealed to me that she borrowed money from a man which I later found out was my now husband, Krogsad, which is unwomanly and illegal. What startled me even more was that she forged her father's name on that very same document. She has sadly made a mistake. The poor girl does not know any better and she must face the consequences. How do you feel about the fact that your new husband was blackmailing your best friend? At first, I was furious with Krogsad. I wanted to help Nora and convince Krogsad to leave her be and forget all about the forgery. However, as I assessed Torvald and Nora's relationship, further it became clear to me that they were in a toxic relationship. I decided to do nothing to stop the downfall and I applauded my husband for contributing to Nora's realization. Thank you for coming in and giving us your side of the story. Today, there are similar cases about forgery in the modern era that will help us further understand Nora's actions. There was a lady by the name of Mackenzie. In Washington between 2015 and 2017, she worked as a family supporter at Catholic Jury. Mackenzie committed fraud by forging signatures on official documents to receive approved funds so that she was able to add money to emergency housing funds. Her goal wasn't to help herself but to help others. In Nora's case, she forged her father's signature not to help herself but to help Torvald. What happened to her? She was given two years in federal prison and had to pay back more than $200,000 in stolen money. I think that's what should have happened to Nora. She should have been punished for her actions. Similarly, I also have a case example that connects to Nora. In Florida in 2019, the first wife of the defendant forged her husband's signature to which was later revealed to the defendant during the case. It's similar to Nora's case because of how she forged a signature to make a loan and how it wasn't revealed to Torvald until later in the story. Nora and the defendant's first wife both left their husbands. Did anything happen to her? I don't believe so. So just like Nora, she wasn't convicted and she ended up leaving her husband. Which I don't believe is right. Well, Nora got what she deserved. She committed a crime driving her to leave Torvald and her kids. But I don't think justice was served. What? She had to leave her kids and husband who she loved. She got out of doing something illegal. But Nora deserves to be fined at a minimum. Personally, I think she should go to jail. Today, our legal system takes forgery very seriously, especially involving money documents. Nora was only trying to help her husband. She wanted him to feel better so she did something she knew was wrong. I think justice was served. You're just wrong. Mrs. Lynn expressed that their relationship was damaged. My opinion is clearly right. Nora needs to be behind bars. Agree to disagree? I guess. And now a word from our sponsors. Have you ever needed to hide behind a mask when your husband gets mad? 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