Georgia_Reash

The speaker is preparing for a webinar and discussing whether or not to include a poem reading. They then introduce their guest, Georgia Reese, and discuss her background growing up in Ohio. Georgia shares her values of connectivity and expressivity. She also reveals that she is a minister and discusses her healing journey. Georgia then shares her experience of sexual assault at the age of 17 and the complex relationship that followed. She describes the relationship as brutal and discusses the manipulation tactics used by her abuser. I have that one going, I just need to do one more thing, Claire, and then we can start for this webinar. But you already told Georgia the whole run of show, right? Yes. Yay! And Georgia... Can we go a minute? Yeah, go ahead. Do you have a question? Welcome to the webinar. No, I was going to look for a poem, but I don't want to interrupt your process. A poem? Oh, she invited me to read something if I wanted to. Oh. I think let's not do a poem reading because, Georgia, you can do that on global virtual. Like, I don't think the podcast might be the right venue. I think people really – we need to spend as much time as we can learning about your story and journey. No problem. And then you can always do the poem on global virtual. I mean, do you know about global virtual? I do not, but I can learn. No, so easily. I will push you right to the front of our list so you can read your poem, and then we can reference that in the podcast, that you are a poet, and then you'll read on our global virtual. Then you'll read many more thousands and thousands. Thanks. Okay, I say we go. All righty. I'm going to hide this, like, carpet of mine. And I'm going to turn off my camera, too. Yeah, so lovely to meet you, Georgia. And you can stay beautiful on camera. You look amazing. So I'm happy to stare at your lovely face. Okay, well, you know, sometimes it takes a while to get it all together. I know. You are perfect. So we'll do – when I say three, we'll roll. So one and two and three. Welcome back to the Dear Katie Podcast. This is Katie Kestner. And this is Claire Kaplan. So I want to remind our listeners that we do have discussions on the podcast that can sometimes be difficult to hear, especially for survivors of trauma. So we encourage all of you to care for your safety and well-being. Please reach out for emotional support from family or friends, a counselor if you have one, or a hotline. Additional resources can be found on our Take Back the Night Foundation website, and we'll give you that address at the end of the podcast. Thank you so much, Claire. And we are so pleased to have with us Georgia Reese. And, Georgia, my goodness, you're so accomplished. But I know our listeners will learn a ton more about all your talents and gifts. But we always start with what comes first and foremost is kind of a little bit about you, where you're from, how you grew up, so they have context. Could you share a little bit about your bio, like where did you grow up, where were you born, siblings, background, anything you want to share? Sure. I grew up in northeast Ohio and right now live in Cleveland, Ohio. My mom and dad were both, I would call them public servants, so they were very engaged in the community, and advocates for mental health as well. So I grew up in that context. I have a brother and sister as well. I would say mostly I had a wonderful kind of midwestern experience, and that's actually one of the good things that Ohio brings other than the winters. But it was a very formative experience growing up with kind of values that value community and all the things that make up a strong community experience and family experience. And what's to your mind? So, you know, values mean a lot of different things to different people, Georgia. What would you say some of the main values of your family were? Well, I would think one of the first values that I hope that I've even carried into my experience being a mother is connectivity. And, you know, it's in the experiences we have with one another that really make us whole, at least me, and they also are the experiences that move us forward. So connectivity has been a really important part of my life, my whole life, as well as being a free expresser. I'm a creative at heart. So, you know, I really kind of just, irrespective of what anybody's wanting me to do, I just... But, Georgia, Georgia, you said exactly, like, the opposite of what I think many people, when they hear values in the U.S. of A. today, they hear, like, the preface, the adjectives usually are conservative and Christian. A lot of people, you know, that's like the go-to media slogan. Right. We represent these conservative Christians, and you just, like, expressivity and open-mindedness, and I'm not saying conservatives can't be open-minded, nor can Christians. Like, I'm not pigeon-honing, but that's why I asked you that question, Georgia. I was like, I love the word values, but I think you just taught our audience there's a lot of ways to have values. I love it. I love it. And I cut you off just a bit because I just wanted to make that point really clear. Like, I love your definition of values, and everyone has so many, like, myriad, you know, background and forms, and those expressivity values, you said Midwestern, but, again, I don't know that anyone would go. Maybe Georgia O'Keefe is from Arizona, maybe New Mexico. I was thinking. Right, right. I think Georgia O'Keefe, the other Georgia. The other Georgia. The other Georgia. Like, the other, you know, not that you should over- or outrank her, but another Georgia. I think she grew up in New Mexico or at least painted. I forgot. Well, she painted there. She painted there. A lot of her paintings. I'm also, I'm an artist in lots of different ways, including painting and poetry and a dramatist as well. And a what? A what? Say that word again. A dramatist? A dramatist. A dramatist. So you're a playwright? I have written a play, and I also perform. Yay! My goodness. I wish we had both Georgias on the line, but I feel like we have a very talented one. No, no, no. So go ahead. Keep going. Keep going. Well, you know, values to me have changed over time, only because I've taken the time to define what they mean to me, not what is imposed on the outside to me. And that has been part of my own healing journey is to define the I am that I am. So my values are categorized in those kind of external typical ways I move from within and express out. Interestingly, I'm also a minister. Oh, my goodness. A minister in what faith? Now you're wearing like every year the newest Renaissance woman ever. Well, and you know, that means a lot of things to a lot of people. Yeah. You know, but for me, being a minister only means allowing you or anybody else to find out who they really are. That's my job as a minister, because that was my journey as part of my healing. I want to talk a little bit about like finding out who they are and that usually minister to me means a conduit for a faith leader through God, any God, and your relationship with a God, the God, any God. It would be interesting to explore in our conversation. So I think that's like already I'm delighted and honored to talk with you, Georgia. So let's, you know, what is, you know, our journey always kind of begins with a survivorship story. And then we go into, I think you're, I think you're about 10 years older than I am, maybe 61 too? I'm 60. Oh, yay. Okay, 60. So, you know, I think it's so interesting also to think about the decades you've been through and giving our listeners some, you know, what happened when, because you're clearly so accomplished and we have so much to learn from you. And I forget, you said you had mom and dad and siblings in Ohio, right? Yes, I do. My sister lives in Arizona. My brother lives in Columbus just a couple hours from me. Perfect. So what happened to bring you to this mic? Well, the original story of my experience of sexual assault happened to me when I was 17 years old. And although there were things that happened in childhood that, you know, looking back I had an impression it was the big experience at 17 that really changed my life in many ways. What happened to me is I had gone on a date with somebody and he was an older man, he was in his 20s, kind of just, you know, typical predator type, but I was drawn to it. And more importantly, I was eager to kind of find my own way in life. I was thinking about going to college. And what happened, it's very hard to kind of pinpoint exactly what happened, except that I was indeed intimidated into experiences that were not of my choice. And the first experience I had with that person was a rape. And what confused me in that rape experience was there was a double-edged sword of being loved and nurtured by this man, and he even wanted to marry me. But our relationship was based in brutal sexual experiences. And for whatever reasons, I simply didn't have the strength to believe that. Okay, wait one second. That was a huge statement. Brutal sexual experiences. Just like I asked you to find values. If you can, I know this might be really hard and that's like Claire did at Trigger Warning, what do you mean by that? And I also at the same time want to go back to one other thing you said, which is you were 17 and this guy 20 or in his 20s, you said? Yeah, he was 24. Yeah, 24. I think sometimes some of our listeners also think about I was young and naive, but I was drawn, you used the phrase drawn to. And I think that's really interesting because maybe you were trying to either go to someone you felt like you could communicate and connect with on a different level. So maybe two things we could talk about is what does brutal mean and then why drawn? Well, let's start with brutal. Any relationship that starts with a rape is brutal to start with. So the basis of the relationship is dominance and being overpowered. And from there, it only becomes more complex and more predatory actually. So things would happen, I'll give one example. I would try to break away and then be lured back and we'll talk about what that luring experience was, but there would be strange things that would happen. For example, sometimes he would take me to hotels. And this was my first sexual experience. I really had wanted to wait till marriage to have sex. So I just didn't have any reference points, okay? So he would take me to hotels and we would end up in these play scenarios where he would pay me and ask me to pretend that I was a prostitute. So he would literally pay me and leave money for me and then leave me abandoned at the hotel. Georgia, when those happened, that was huge. Okay, we'll just sit with that for one second. So you're 17 and let's operationalize it for a second. So how did you get to these locations? And back then, hello, I know, there's phones, there's telegraphs. What method of communication were you using that he could notify you of his request? Well, we would see each other, you know, a week by then. When those experiences started to happen, I was 18 and I had started college. So I was an hour away from home. So the experiences got stranger and stranger over the year. And by the time I ended up in college, he would come to visit me out of the blue, take me, take me, I mean, intimidate me into leaving, take me to hotels, and that's where I would spend the weekend doing those kinds of activities. Sometimes he would take me to bizarre and unusual places. So the challenge to where I was was that I was so full of shame throughout that first year because I had all these values built up around what I was supposed to be doing as a, you know, somebody who should be waiting to get married. I was, you know, kind of spiritual back then. Also, my parents were very well known in the community. My mother was, in fact, worked for a mental health center. I mean, the shame, some part of me knew that I was in danger, but I had no voice. And the shame, it was just a duality of shame and fear and wondering if I was doing the wrong thing and being totally naïve as to what was happening to me. Truly, I don't think I was fully aware of what was happening until today. Right, right, right. Let's, I have another question, Georgia. You're so generous. I'm so excited and brilliant. You're brilliant. What about this question because I'm thinking about, you know, Claire and I have done all of these interviews and we're trying to help our listeners have this well-rounded experience. And I think it's also interesting because you are clearly brilliant. And I think it's important to explain what you meant. I had no idea what was happening to me. And I only imagined you to be, you know, great in English class. Like, you know, think about the hallmarks of, like, I am brilliant. I'm so smart. I know how to do all these things. And yet, you're going off to college and you also say, I don't know what was going on. But was that a jerk of sex education? Do you think it was I didn't recognize it as rape? Because, hello, back then there was no term to describe what was happening. Right? Hello, Time magazine cover. Like, we had to define with my case what was acquaintance and date rape. But there was this idea of consent. And back when you're experiencing what you're going through, Georgia, then there was this time of carry mace. Don't walk on the streets by yourself. There are bad, often I would say marginalized, stereotypical prototypes of what a racist was. And this guy at 24 clearly said none of those. So maybe delve in for a second because I know you could go there. What does it mean if you roll back in your mind to being the 17, 18-year-old? It was like how did this feel? Was it a little bit dangerous? Were you looking for risk? Were you not thinking about consent? The worth of your body? Like, tell us more. I'm just guessing. Right now I'm just guessing. I'm only guessing. Oh, who even used that word consent? Nobody. Nobody, Georgia. Nobody did. So I remember the exact moment of the rape. I said no. And he ignored that. So I did not give consent. So who was I and where was my brain during that time? That, of course, is always the million-dollar question. I think there were a lot of things that I was looking for. My own sense of independence. My parents had met when they were 17 and got married. But sex was rarely talked about in my home. It was kind of, you know, quiet. It was just the thing you did with that one person. Did your brother get different sex ed than you? I don't know. I'm curious. That's so interesting, though, don't you think, Georgia? Do you think there is a possibility? I have only a sister. And I always imagine my dad having a – if I had a brother, he would have said something different to my brother if I had one. But if you don't know, you don't know. I was just musing. Well, all I remember is being in Girl Scouts and my mom dropping me off at age 13. This was my sex education. Okay. Okay, and this was it. Yeah. There's sex education and then there's the expression of your sexuality. Ooh, well done. Which are two different things. Right. So sex education was 13. I went to Girl Scouts. My mom left and I got the video. Ooh, the video? I got the video. Oh, wow. Laughter with questions and, you know, then I took it on myself to go into the library and read more. And I personally loved the exploration of my own body at an early age. Not physical exploration, but reading everything that there was to read about how my body worked. So I wanted to understand it since nobody in my life wanted to talk about it. Well, and I'm a little older than you. I'm a little older than both of you. And I know that the sex ed that I got initially was about periods. Right. But that was it. It didn't say anything about why periods. Right. Or it just said don't take a hot shower or don't take a cold shower. Right? Because hot showers make you go too fast and cold showers stop it. I mean, that's, you know, that was sex ed. Laughter. So, yeah. And again, so you take this biological understanding of the body and then you have experiences, normal experiences of sexuality, which includes desire and pleasure and all of those things. So there's a bridge there that we don't provide to anybody, male or female, and how to even do that responsibly. And I miss that bridge altogether. So the hardest thing about my rape experience and that dysfunctional relationship, which went on for three years, I was raped and followed and stalked and raped in relationship. It went on for three years. The thing that was the most terrible, difficult thing for me was that I had physical pleasure while I was being abused. Yes. And my mind couldn't take that in. I just, because I had shame and fear and I knew I was not in a good place, and yet my body kept having this physical reaction. So here I was, a young woman wanting to be a nice spiritual Christian, I went right to guilt. Yes. Meanwhile, I had no cognizant idea that I was in a trauma-based experience. And it wasn't until later that I kind of understood, and even children, when they have sexual experiences, they have physical sensations. It's very confusing. It feels good. So later, how that manifested, that dichotomy of experience, it really, ultimately, I couldn't come to resolve in my own mental health mind. And I kind of checked out. In my 20s, I remember using, I started to use drugs and alcohol and I, it's a subtle coping mechanism to deal with trauma. How do you deal with trauma that is harboring in the back of your mind? And I think what happened was I finally just checked out. And I'm being very honest, because when you, at least for me, in the mental health journey, in the journey of healing, there comes a moment where you say, I'm going to heal, I'm going to do the work, or I'm not going to do the work. Because it's big. And in my 20s, I couldn't do the work. I just wasn't ready to deal with that emotional complexity, if that makes sense. It does make sense. So, what happened to me is... Wait, wait, wait, Georgia, let's stop this. I know, I know, I know. But I think it's worth exploring that, because even if it makes sense to me or Katie, maybe you could explain it for our listeners. You may get it, but we don't know. I just wanted to back up again. Go ahead, Georgia. Well, the biggest problem with shelving your pain, which we do very well as human beings, but we don't have the resources to not shelve it, really. The biggest problem with shelving your pain is that it doesn't go away. It sits on a back shelf. And by the time I got into my 30s, upon therapy, after learning more about myself in therapy, I started to disassociate. And I kind of developed these extreme aspects of myself. I was an accomplished professional. I was Mother of the Year. I got the big house in the suburbs. I was amazing. I was highly spiritual. People would come talk to me. I started a consulting company. And I was, on the outside, expressing really everything that I... the opposite of the crumbling that was happening inside. And ultimately, in all truthfulness, that caught up with me at the age of 40. And I was in an unhealthy marriage because patterns of violence typically continue unless you resolve them within yourself. And at the age of 40, I did attempt suicide. So that was the huge turning point in my life when I couldn't shelve it anymore. It was stark in my face that an accomplished woman with two beautiful children and a big house in the suburbs would go into her garage and turn on the car. Oh my goodness, Georgia. So after that experience, and that was a profound experience because I was saved by two angels. Can I ask another? This is really important, Georgia. We've explored mental health. We've explored wanting to end it. And I don't want to say you're more able to explain it than anyone else, but going into the moment, I think many of us don't know how to go on sometimes. Obviously, though, you're describing a very deliberate, planned experience. And what I'm going to ask, these are bold questions, Georgia. You don't have to answer them. I'm old. I know. I can tell. That's why I'm being bold because I think you're that cool and amazing and insightful. And you've lived through a lot. You know, here's my rift in thinking. On the moments when there's unbearable pain, there's like, what is my life worth? There's a question that we have about our contributions and harm. Like, I'll say, you know what, I think of it this way. If you go into, like, I can't live anymore, there must be a query, and I'm asking you to think about it, a query that you ask. It might be like the balance. I've almost seen this skills of justice. The pain I am enduring is so great and so harmful, and I don't see a way out of it. That could be one side. There could also be a side that I don't see that I can cope, handle, or go forward with the current situation. I don't see a way out. And I don't see more options than what I have. And maybe I'm short-sighted, but those are the two parts of that scale, kind of looking past and currently with pain. I'm looking forward with what I'm still enduring and don't know that there's anything better or can't escape. Does that make sense a little bit? Very much so. I would think that I fall into that first category. Okay. The truth is many people who survive sexual assault, as you know, they actually struggle with suicide ideation a lot. All the time. Yes. All the time, Georgia. I would say like tons, almost every day. Claire, what do you think? Almost all of our survivors struggle. Oh, yeah. I cannot even think that there's one person on our podcast who has not either thought about it or considered it with all seriousness or attempted it with very seriousness. I would say that's true. Yeah. Georgia, so hello. Thank you for exploring this very complicated issue with us. I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful. Thank you. You know, I just don't think there was a week between the age of 18 and 40 that I didn't think about dying. Oh, gosh. I mean, that's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot of wanting to not be here. Yeah. Two different things. Wanting to kill myself and not wanting to be here is the inner voice. I don't want to be here. I don't want to be here with my pain. I don't want to sit with my pain. I don't want to recall my pain. And I think it came to a head because my relationship with my husband was very bad, and I was starting to have memories come up to the surface. So all of that putting on the back shelf was being triggered in a bad marriage. So I was having recall. Extra. Extra. Right. What was being triggered, Georgia? I think that's really interesting because, you know, I thought personally about this, Georgia. My abuse when I was 11, 12, 13, 14 by men, before even your 17-year-old one, you know, before I was on the cover of Times, as I had children who were growing up at the same time that I was actually experiencing things that I never even considered, it was very triggering. So I wanted to explore that. What was triggering in your marriage that made you reminisce, remember, re-experience those traumas? What was happening? Well, you know, he recently passed away, and I'm at peace with my ex-husband finally. Yay! Hurrah, hurrah! Well, that's good. But he had an explosive personality. So, you know, the thing that I always said, by the time I got married, at least I wasn't with a man that was abusing me physically or sexually. But I was settling for somebody with an explosive personality and with rage. And I think it was that explosiveness, and I started to have the triggering. So it was the mood of the house, of walking on eggshells. He was borderline alcoholic, you know, was always going back from drinking and not drinking. So there were circumstances. I was trying to protect my children emotionally. There was just a lot happening in that house. And, of course, nobody knew about it, because I was just in the perfect suburban life on the outside. So the more I lied to the world around me, the more the implosion within got bigger and bigger, and then the surfacing of the memories. I finally did say to my husband, I said, I need to tell you that I'm having these memories come up, and I need to work on them, and we need to work on our marriage. And when he said to me, I don't ever want to hear those stories, I first knew the marriage was over. Oh, my goodness. And I knew I was alone. Wow. So that is when the seriousness of not wanting to be here grew inside of me, which is, I was very disassociated at the time, because you can't have those thoughts and be so in love with your children. It's such a bizarre, opposite-end-of-the-spectrum kind of scenario. But one day I just calmly made the decision. Calmly made the decision. I dropped my kids off at daycare and went to the garage. And I was really... I know it's not the right word, but I did have peace, because all I wanted to do was let go. I just wanted the turmoil within to be over. If my husband wasn't going to listen to me, how was I even going to tell my family, who are these big people in the city? And how am I going to tell my friends, with whom I'm living this amazing life, that everybody thinks I have no problems? So my external lies couldn't live with my internal truth anymore. And I think that's what happened to me on that day. Oh my goodness, that's so powerful, Georgia. Thank you so much for telling us about that. And then what was the turning point? What happened next? Well, I mean, in all honesty, obviously I'm kind of a spiritual person, as I've indicated. So as crazy as it may sound, I was literally saved by two angels out of my car. They pulled me out of my car. I was kind of out of it. They took me down into my office, into my house, which was right by the garage, and threw me into the chair, threw me into my office chair. And I am not kidding you, ladies. There were two angels standing next to me, and the really big one was kind of mad at me. And he said, Georgia, you're missing the point. And the other angel came over and comforted me. And that was my turning point. And what were the manifestations of those angels, Georgia? What did they look like to you? They were just pure white beings. They were very big. Did they have voices? Did they have genders? The one that yelled at me had a male voice, a male-sounding voice. Deep, baritone, or like, you know, there's a lot of male things. And then God, you know, like what did it sound like? Like God arising? It's funny that you would say the word baritone, because there's a friend of mine who says, who believes that those were the spirits of my children. And my son is a baritone opera singer. And he's a big guy. So I've always wondered. I mean, I've had lots of spiritual experiences, but that was very profound. And I would say it was kind of just a loud, baritone-ish type of voice. And it was clear. What was interesting was afterwards I kept asking, well, what is the point? If I'm missing the point, what is the point? Thanks for the information, angels. But what is it? And that was my turning point of really taking my healing seriously. And really for the next 20 years, I just delved into a deep, intentional healing experience. And my whole life changed. Okay, great. That's huge. How did you do that? Like you're going through each of the course. Everyone wants to know, like, what did you do? Did you fast for 20 days? Did you go to a desert? Did you fly to the moon? Like, what was that experience? Like, how did you go deep? And your children, now you're like 40, right? So you have kids. Yeah, I have small children. Yeah, how did you go deep and have kids? And have this husband that was no good. Right. The first thing I did, and I remember it very distinctly. I remember I got a woman's medication book, and it was very affirming. That was, I would, you know, just kind of found it. And the first thing I did was I decided to get rid of everything that wasn't working for me. Everything. What does that mean? My whole life was based on a lie. I had to get to the truth of what was working. Yeah, what was not working? Claire's question is great. Oh, my, well, obviously my marriage. I was 150 pounds overweight. My health. My work lifestyle, I was working 60 hours a week. You know, I was successful, but the cost of that was brutal. So I really was not taking care of myself at all. Ultimately, my body told me to stop. Once I had that experience, when I said to myself, I'm getting rid of everything that's not working for me, I went through a lot of things, and there was a big list. Even the way that I communicated and friendships I had, I really did a self-examination process of saying, What brings me joy? What do I even like? My sense of identity of me has been based off of what everybody has been kind of wanting me to be. Who was I in that story? So I did a lot of reading. I did a lot of praying, and I mean hours a day. I just was committed to healing, even though it was painful. I went through days where I would cry for three or four hours a day. It was as if all of those years I had shelled, every feeling needed to be purged. It was a daily experience of allowing what was within me to come out. Wait, wait, wait, let's dwell on that. That was so beautiful. That was poetic. Remember, you're also a poet. I like the phrase for our listeners and us to talk about every day was a daily purge, and you are pruning out everything that was, you know, you are brave, conscientious, diligent. I must envision you right now with our listeners making a checklist of everything that does not serve me, everything that is harmful, and creating a purge list. How soon can I get that crap hell out of my life? And I almost imagine you having a shred of paper, like almost like the back of a grocery list. You know, I would go old school. I would do like, you know, today 20-year-olds like make something on your phone app, but I would do it so old school because here's why I ask on your phone, hello, 20-year-old, 30-year-old, maybe 40-year-old. It doesn't work. You need it front and center in front of your face. You don't want to touch your phone to look at your to-do list. Your purge list has to be in front of your face on a real, I hate to say, tale of three, but something that you can see and you can't close it out of your app. You can't turn your phone off. It has to be. The purge list, as Georgia said, that's what I would do. The purge list has to be in front of your whole face all the time. Otherwise, no one gets it done, and I would go so far as to say like maybe, Georgia, you put a timeline. I don't know if you did. Like a how-to and a timeline. I'm curious. Have you guys had details? Like I envision your list, get rid of husband, get rid of, like what was on the list? That's what it was. I know. Get rid of this. Yeah. I just said, what am I doing? Yeah. I mean, it was like. That's so cool. Well, mostly I was just trying to find out which point I was missing. I just wanted to, based on what the angel wanted me to find, you know, I just wanted to get to that core. And the other thing that happened was, and I'm very grateful for this. I had a wonderful neighbor, and one day he knocked on my door. I don't know why these synchronicities in life happen, but I threw my husband out of the house. I just couldn't take it anymore. I threw him out. My neighbor came over the next day, and he had in his hand canvas, paint, and paint brushes. And he said, I don't know you, but I've been watching some wild things from across the street, and I want to give you this gift. And if you'd like to talk, let me know. Wow. Another angel came into your life. I know. I'd never painted before either, and that was another huge turning point when I started to paint. It was as if my purging could be transmuted into something. And then I started painting, and that, I don't know, I just couldn't stop. I unleashed, I unleashed. And I didn't really get to a conclusion on myself, quite honestly, probably until the last five years. Because, you know, healing isn't six counseling sessions. Right. It's a becoming process. And for me, you know, I've missed many years of being myself. So I think I spent as many years becoming as I did avoiding becoming. Maybe that's just called growing up, but for survivors, for people who experience trauma, it's a lot of catch-up work to do with yourself. And it's really part of what I've been doing, all of these, through every painting, every poem, and the play that I wrote. And Georgia, my question is, clearly you're finding healing. We've also interviewed survivors who find their healing through axe-throwing. And more, you know, like we've had some fabulous pianists. You know, I think everyone's different, and some needed to throw axes and swords. And you need to put up paint and write poems. Is that because you love being a wordsmith, or the visual kinesthetic connection? What do you think you find when you go to soulless and soul-searching? Both, right? Soul-searching, seeking soulless, if I could say it better. Yeah. I'm saying it better. Those are great words. Yeah, how do you become the architect of what that journey looks like? And I think some, and I'll say this one last thing as we kind of round out. You know, Georgia, a lot of people don't want to be in a car like you were, you know, to access that. And they're coming to our podcast not wanting to go to that level. So your words, you know, some need to hear the axe-throwing story. You might resonate with others who don't want to step into that car, but are still searching for how to access what you did and how you found what would work for you. Because you just said, a neighbor came across the street. And we don't always have two angels coming to us in a car. We don't have a neighbor across the street. What would you tell your survivors who don't have two angels and neighbors? Well, you know, I've been putting my art out there. I recently have. I know, we'll get there, we'll get there. But go back, before you did it, before you did it, the choice is choice. We're going to get there. That's part of it. The thing is, when people, when I talk to people who have not gotten to the place of, you know, wanting to hurt themselves or other people, what I notice is that everybody's thirsty. For what? Thirsty for what? Comfort. Comfort? Like, acknowledgement or comfort? Comfort, it could be like physical comfort, emotional comfort, acknowledgement. The comfort of not being alone. But alone physically or mentally or spiritually? Mostly mentally. You know, mentally is where we are typically trapped, you know, with people who experience trauma. That's where the problems usually begin, is that we can't allow that. Just wanted to define terms. Sorry, I'm going to keep interrupting because you are so great. But I'm just going back to all the listeners on what they're going to want to know. Keep going, keep going, keep going. No, I think when I talk with people, it's that comfort of, first of all, being heard, allowing to be heard, that they have a chance to tell their story, or even just being with me. It's really fascinating that when I tell my story, when people come up to me, it's not what they say. It's that they are not alone. And I know it's an unspoken sisterhood. And that, and you know, just unspoken connection, which of course is one of my values. That connection is very healing. As I said in the beginning, it's in our connection with one another and our presence to one another where great things can happen. Even art and poetry. It's not me asking you to tell the depths of your pain. It's me saying we're going to meet in this place of suffering that we've had together. And you don't have to say a thing because I understand. And there's something really beautiful and magical about that. And I think that's our responsibility, for those of us who feel, you know, inspired to help other people, to be present. Just the presence is an amazing gift. And, you know, I know you know this when you're with other people who are empowered or have achieved many things. You're just inspired. Some part of you goes back, okay, I can do this, I can do this. She did that. I can do this. I meet women and men all the time. I say, I'm inspired. I can do this. And that, to me, is what I can say to people is you're not alone. And that non-aloneness matters, especially since we isolate so deeply when we have trauma experiences. I don't know if that answers your question. It totally did, Georgia. So let's round out with two thoughts. One, I want to back up. The inspiration thing is exactly what I do to self-heal. When I feel the pressure, Georgia, to be inspirational on a stage, given my history and all I've done, I feel very pressured to be inspirational. But you know how I bolster being inspirational? It's exactly what you said. It's being inspired. And I think our listeners today can think about what inspires you. Right. You don't have to be inspiration every day, nor do you have to be Hercules holding the whole world on your shoulders, nor do you have to be the perfect anything. Mother, partner, you know, leader, business guru, fusion, all of it. But when I want inspiration, I love thinking about hero stories, heroine stories, who I watch them, you know, on documentaries. I watch, you know, the story of someone else who's not like me. And sometimes I'm most surprised by listening to stories I think I won't relate to by, you know, like, okay, I get musicians. I get Whitney Houston. I get, you know, and I don't totally get. But I can kind of think about her, she pronoun. But sometimes I'll go to the best runner of all time or the best scientist who's discovered blank. And so I've been exploring inspiration from people I thought I could not be inspired by and forcing myself to find, you know, the heroic journeys that they've taken. Because then my hardship does not feel as hard as their hardship. And I don't pity myself. I'm like, oh, my God, if they could do it in that space, place, and time, I can do it. And I'm not, I am a white-faced person. They are not. Like, they are from Ukraine. I'm like, oh, my gosh, there's no self-pity when you can find inspiration in the stories of others. I don't know what you thought. But I want to round out with that thought, Georgia. And then teach our audience about, because you're definitely coming to Global Virtual, your poetry. Tell us about your artistry and especially poetry since that will be on our Global Virtual in an episode coming to all of us. Tell us about that. What did they publish? What could they read about you? Tell us a little bit more about that. Well, I have a little poetry book on Amazon. And next year I'm publishing my first book of nonfiction. Hopefully that will get out. Yay. I know. I'm excited about that. So exciting. Nonfiction, like a story about you? Or what's the story about? Well, the story, the title of the book is da-da-da-da. The title of the story, the title of the book is called, I Want Good Sex. Oh, that's awesome. That's good. Everybody wants that. Here's the whole title. Go, go, go, go. I Want Good Sex, Reclaiming Your Sensuality After Abuse, Assault, or Stupid Meanies. Stupid meanies? M-E-A-N-I-E-S? That's perfect. It is because I was married to a meanie. And it was just as traumatic as physical abuse. I love sex sinners, sex sinners. They just use you for your holes and whatever else you have. Well, and that book also has my art in it and my poetry. Yay. I do want to share my one thing that I'm really trying to put out. Yes, yes, yes. Please. During the pandemic, I was inspired to paint an art installation of 53 vaginas. It's called 53 Vaginas and Vulvas. That's amazing, Georgia. It sounds like the dinner party. I know. Oh, my gosh. Guess what? All of my vaginas are painted like food. Nice. Georgia, I'm just missing my avocados, radishes, artichokes. Peaches. Peaches. Strawberries. Do I have all the fruit? Well, how many more fruits are we missing? And veggies. You said fruits and veggies, right? Well, what's interesting is when I did my first vagina, like a peppermint stick, and then I was inspired. I can't see that one. That's a little too crooked and too narrow. A little too, and too white and red. Yeah, it just got fun after that. Oh, good. I was in the midst of really working through some issues in my mind. I was working on, you know, how do I be in relationships? So I just dove into painting, and I had this voice in my head that said, paint 53 things that you love to eat. Oh, that's so good. What do you love to eat? Is there a pizza one? Yes. Oh, my God, thank God. I'm just saying I need some buttered bread and pizza when I'm very, very, very, like I hate to eat carbs, but like when I'm very weak, Georgia, I'm doing carbs instead of veggies. But then I'm like, I watched an episode the other day, Georgia, like I forgot it was on a movie. And, oh, they said everything comes from exploitation, every food. And I was like, oh, crap, like soybeans. And then someone said they're killing off soybean plants, and they're delineating forests to plant them, and now I'm feeling guilty as a vegetarian. Nah. You're like, nah? If you picture Ms. Vagina. All right. I will try that. I will try that. It might serve us all well. You know, then we have sex and good food all at once. That's divine. It's way better than the stereotype from like 80s and 90s and 00s where there's some man pouring edible lingerie and chocolate on some fake woman's body. Right. Like, let's look how far we've come from only 20 years ago, where food met a.k.a. chocolate and edible lingerie in a fake scenario. Like, that's so good, Georgia. I'm so delighted you've brought it so far. I cannot wait. And I want our listeners to be able to see your work. Maybe we could put forth a snapshot of your two favorite ones. Could you do that for us and then speak on our global virtual? Oh, I would love to, yeah. I did send some over before the show, but I'll send some so I can send you. Let me just tell you, I'm a fan of artists' shows. Did you do one? I did not do artists' shows. I'm so sorry. Okay, what about. Oh, wait a minute. No, I did artists' show dips. Okay, I'll take a dip. Claire, you get second choice. Claire, I'll do artists' show dips. I would say I definitely like avocados, and I certainly love lots of different kinds of fruits, mango. Oh, there's plenty of fruits. I'm sorry I don't like avocados. Do you have a mango vagina? I do not, but there's a watermelon, green apples. There's a strawberry daiquiri. Claire, what's your choice? We get choices. I'll go with the pineapple. Okay, great. Oh, I love that. Well, Georgia, my goodness, we cannot wait to revisit with you on Global Virtual and hear a poem. We will put up some pineapple and some dip for me. Whatever you said you had available was artichoke. I think you said artichoke dip. No, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Anything else you want to share, Georgia, tonight, today with our listeners? If you had something else to inspire, what's your inspiration? You've led us through dark and light and brilliant and painting and poems and values. You've given us so much, Georgia. Thank you, thank you. Oh, well, I'm very appreciative of the opportunity. No, hello. We love and adore all of our survivors. But you get last word. What would you like to share? You know, for me, the journey, in a nutshell, has been about reclaiming self-love or finding it for the first time. Because, you know, self-love, people talk about it a lot, but until you get to that place where you love yourself enough to make different choices about your relationship, living the life that you want, it begins at that nugget of self-love. And for me, arriving there has taken some time, but boy, does it feel good to be a queen. It just feels good. What's the queen to you? The knowing that I'm fine just the way I am and more than that, I'm freaking amazing. I love it. Say it again, say it again. I'm freaking amazing and I have power. I have power in knowing that and believing it. And that reclaiming of my power begins with the reclaiming of loving me. We're amazing. We all are. It's what we need to remember, and that really is all I want people to remember. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, Claire, let's – oh, my gosh, Georgia. We can't wait to revisit you on Global Virtual. Put out some other items you have referenced. Claire, can you close us? Yes, I certainly can. Georgia, thank you for joining us today. That was so much fun talking with you. And thank you for sharing your story with us, as difficult as it was. I want to thank also our wonderful volunteers who make every aspect of this podcast happen. And finally, thank you to all of our listeners who are here to bear witness. Please help us help other survivors by subscribing to this podcast and sharing it. You can also follow us over online on your social media. Make sure to follow us on Facebook and our Instagram page. If you need support but don't know where to find it, visit Tayfaxtonite.org for a list of resources and how to reach our legal support hotline. And remember, self-care is essential to healing and to thriving. Thank you so much, Claire. And, again, this is Katie Kessner. Oh, my gosh, we had such a fabulous journey today. For all of our listeners, please continue. Every episode reveals more layers of how we journey from hurt to healing. And Georgia just gave us all of herself, except the things we're going to read about and look at with her poetry and her artistry. So, my goodness, thank you, Georgia, for joining us. And thank you, again, to our listeners for continuing our long journey, lifelong journey, to hurt to healing. Absolutely. There's no end. There's no end. And I will end with something I don't know what I said usually to our listeners. There's no I got over it. There is only I learned how to thrive because of it. And I hope our listeners will continue with us. So, thank you, thank you, Georgia. Have a great rest of your evening. And, Claire, thank you, again, for the co-partnering. Take care, everyone. Tune in again. Bye. Bye-bye. Awesome. Hey, Georgia. Wow, you are a rock star. I'm sorry. I'm shutting up. But you took every question with grace. I, like, pierced your soul twice over with, like, bows and arrows. And, you know, I was like, oh, my gosh, you took it all. But you are a strong, amazing human. I cannot wait to have you on Global Virtual and put your artistry up. I was thinking, what if, Georgia, Georgia, hello. I have an idea. We have a series of shirts. What if we created a series of shirts for Take Back the Night? We come up with a slogan. You take your best five veggies or fruits and vaginas. And, hello, we come up with a slogan for each. And then we sell them, and you are world famous, my little lady. Wouldn't that be fun? Oh, my dear. Wearable art. Wearable art. They will love wearing Britannia. Our listeners and Take Back the Night, they will love it. I thought of that, like, half an hour ago. And I was like, oh, my gosh. If Georgia would permit, and we could give you, I know you need to make money. But we could save, like, $2. Yeah, whatever you want. Either a dollar's a donation or you're a happy place. And then we do a documentary. Oh, and I want to formally invite you, Claire, you are coming to June 22, correct? Uh-huh, yeah. And, hello, you don't live that far away, Georgia. On June 22, the artists, activists, we are having a summit at my house. Yes! It's only seven. It's silly. It's near Villanova. I can come. No, I will invite you. You didn't get an invite. I only invite my special guests. There will be 100 world famous, amazing activists. You are invited formally. Katie, thank you so much. There will be a documentarian. Come with two changes about this. There will be people to do head shots, glamour shots, casual shots. Tell them you. It will be incredible. I didn't know about any of that stuff. Oh, sorry, Claire. I'm telling you now. So, Claire, bring two changes, two or four. I got a documentarian, Claire, plus two photographers to do all kinds. They come as early as 2.30. Please help me. I will be over my head in trying to manage the event. But, Claire, you could at least manage a hello movie star, Claire. You could at least either manage one photographer or documentarian. Sure. That would be awesome. I will give up my bed for you, Claire. Georgia, just FYI, a long, long time ago when I was 29 years old, before I was married, I built a house you would come visit as both a museum for my puzzles and a hotel for all my speakers. Wow. I wanted to have eight bathrooms, infinite bedrooms. And I do just enough puzzles to fill with my soul. Wow. But I would love to meet you in person. I would love to have you on camera. We can do all kinds of cool things. Just come by 2.30 and 2.22, and I will add you to the guest list if you want. I would absolutely love that. I'm dying to get out of Cleveland. Well, you can either drive, which is a long-ass 6.5 hours. Or direct. Or direct. I'll make a trip of it. All right, perfect. You are welcome. And then you'd like to meet Claire. Yeah, that would be lovely. Thank you so much, ladies. Oh, my God. You're a goddess. Georgia, you're a goddess. That's why I was like Georgia O'Keefe. No. You were the second Georgia. Well, I need you all to come out of my shell. And this really helps me get out of my shell. Then come to the parties. I will. You will come out of your shell. We will be rogue and renegade. There's no chance of anyone wanting to die. I promise. I know. I might get you drunk. I promise. I might have too much champagne. Which is very easy to do. But I don't have any cocaine. I only have good wine. I don't have any illicit drugs. I'm so sorry. You're so funny to laugh. Yeah. And I don't have a pool. Because I don't want anyone to drive. But I do have a steam room. Claire, Georgia, I have an awesome steam room. You can go hydrate. And it's 6.2 feet long so you can lie flat with the cushions that I hand-sewn. Oh, my goodness. It's crazy, Georgia. It's crazy. I built it when I only had Galaga, two pinball machines, and, like, a hundred-frame puzzle. And a hotel. And I made all the curtains myself. Like, I designed the whole house, Georgia. Wow. I had no idea. Oh, my gosh, Claire. You will see the creative talent. But I'm not the poet you are, Georgia. And I'm not the artist you are. But you will see artistry. Right. And I'll tell you, Claire and Georgia, two more cool things. I'm also a collector of art. And there are no men hanging in this house. Oh. I don't support paintings of men. Everything is either vaginas or — well, not as good as your vaginas. Well, here they are. All vaginas are beautiful. But you'll see, like, everything is all women-centered art, too. And it's a gallery. Like, I — Claire, you don't know me. Georgia, you're getting to know me. So, anyway, we have to go to the next interview. But, Claire, I can't wait to — All right, bye. Thank you. Yep. Next interview. I'll call Jayla and tell her we're coming. And, Georgia, you must come. And there's a family — you'll get the invite and you'll see all the events we have. We have three events all three days, pre, post, and after. You'll have a fabulous time. Oh, I will. Thank you so much. You guys have a wonderful rest of your day, and I'll catch up with you soon. All right, bye. Take it easy. Bye. All right, bye-bye. Bye, Kitty. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.