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The podcast "Keepers of the Mats" by Tried and True Jiu-Jitsu features host Ron White discussing the impact of Jiu-Jitsu on people's lives. Guests share their Jiu-Jitsu experiences, emphasizing growth and community. Friend Duncan Maitland discusses his Jiu-Jitsu journey, from facing challenges and discomfort to finding mindfulness and presence on the mats. He reflects on overcoming his quitting tendencies and the transformative power of Jiu-Jitsu in his life. The practice helps him focus, be present, and adapt to stressful situations, offering a sense of comfort amidst discomfort. Welcome to Keepers of the Mats, the official podcast of Tried and True Jiu-Jitsu. I'm your host, Ron White, and I am the head instructor and owner at Tried and True Jiu-Jitsu in Muncie, Pennsylvania. This show is all about the students and the culture that make Tried and True such a special place to train. Here, we'll connect with people on the mats, sharing their stories, their journeys, and how Jiu-Jitsu has impacted their lives, both on and off the mat. From time to time, we'll also bring in special guests who've played a meaningful role in helping us grow into the community we are today. Whether you're already a part of the tribe or just curious about what Jiu-Jitsu can do for you, you're in the right place. Let's get into it. All right, it is time for episode four. I am sitting here with a very good friend of mine. We've known each other, what, 17, I think we met, so going on eight, nine years. And this person has been an extreme, extreme light in my life. He's one of the few people that I know can, like, truly, truly read when I'm on or off, and he's always there to check on me. This is my friend Duncan Maitland, and he's the man. I call him Dunk Dizzle, Dunk Easy, Fo' Sheezy. He's just the man, and I'm really excited to have this conversation today. So I'll shut up now, and we'll let him get talking. And Duncan, when did you first start Jiu-Jitsu, and what brought you through the doors of Tried and True? I guess I've got to get into a little history here to answer this one. So you and I met 2017, as you talked about in the introduction. A friend of mine was doing CrossFit with you, and just kind of brought me through the doors to see what it was all about, and immediately knew that it was the most challenging thing I'd ever done. Back in those days, you know, you and I had a lot of fun. We don't have fun now? We do. So what are we doing here, Dunk? Yeah, yeah. So we still have fun, but we had a lot of fun back then as well, you know, and, like, before class, you would kind of, like, I'd run up behind you and grab you, you know, try to single leg or whatever. You'd do the same to me, and, like, a couple of the exchanges ended up, you know, me ending up in a triangle or something like that on the ground. And, you know, so I was interested kind of from that point, you know, always loved UFC, you know, and was fascinated by martial arts, period, and just didn't really have a place to do it. So anyway, to answer your question, what was it then, man? It was probably 2020. Yeah, I would say probably... I should have looked at pictures. Yeah. I should have found you. I'm 822, early 23. Yeah, that sounds right. Probably when you first started coming in. Yeah, yeah, and, you know, it was just after a hiatus, I think, from CrossFit. I was listening at home and saw what you were growing on Facebook. You know, you and I kind of kept in touch, not as much as we did, you know, but we were still talking, and I just kind of decided, you know what? I want to try this. Now I have a spot to do it. So tried and true gave me that. Good stuff, man. Good stuff. What were those early days like for you, first impressions of the art? Wow. I can say I don't think I'll ever forget the way that I felt coming into those first classes. You know, I was nervous, obviously, super excited to get started, and I don't think I knew what to expect at all, you know. I remember finishing one of my first, I won't say the first class, because I would say the first spar, you know, so maybe like two, three weeks in, we went from positional to actually, you know, you thought that I was safe to spar with some of the guys, and I remember every muscle in my body hurting, you know, every single, like I was like, man, I must have flexed my whole body for the last 30 minutes, and just thinking like, this is the hardest thing I've ever done. It replaced, you know, that spot that CrossFit had taken, as this is the hardest thing I've ever done. So I definitely remember that. What motivated you to keep showing up in the beginning? I wanted to get better. Another thing that I remember from the beginning was feeling almost helpless, right? Like, I might have stood a chance in the first, the first time we clinched up, but you guys were so efficient, you know, and I was just not at all. Like, I just gasped immediately. I was using every muscle in my body just to try to survive. I remember you frequently tapping out from pressure, tapping out from discomfort. Yeah, getting very panicky in those early days for you. Yep, yep, I remember a lot of that too, a lot. Man, heavy pressure while I was heavy breathing, you know, just that panic. So let's go back to that question, and then dealing with that panic, discomfort, you know, a lot of people would run away from that. Yeah. So what was it that you were like, no, no, no, no, I'm not, I'm going to, I know I tapped out, but like, give me like 10 seconds, catch my breath, and let's go again. But that was you, bro. Like, you would freak out, you would tap to like, and I remember giving you hell for it. Like, we don't tap from pressure, all right? I remember giving you hell for it, and you did it pretty frequently. And, but something was there, something was like, this sucks, but I need it. Like, what do you think that was? I think that you said it perfect right there, and so I guess to answer this question too, I got to go back to who I am, you know, or naturally who I am, I'll say. Dude, I was a quitter. I mean, my whole life, my whole adolescence. I think I remember you telling me about this. You know, I was like, that's my natural tendency, and it got me in a lot of trouble, you know, as a teen, as an adolescent. And when I found CrossFit, I think was the first time that I ever figured out how good it felt to push past that spot in my own mind that was like, you should quit, you should stop, you know, that wasn't, it's abnormal for me to do that. And I think that Jiu-Jitsu kind of was even more of a platform for that, right? Like, the fear, the panic, the pressure, the, you know, being that gassed, and wanting something in my mind being like, you should stop, you should tap, you know, and every single day, and still, when I come in the gym, a lot of days, I'll get to that point and have that internal dialogue that's like, you should quit, and having to push through that, it's so good for a guy like me who naturally wants to quit. You mean like the other day when you were holding onto that knee bar, and I had to yell at you to tell you that you didn't have it anymore and just to let go of it? Exactly. And then what did you say to me right after that? What did I say? I didn't want to give up? What did you say? I'm tired! Oh, yeah! Exactly! Yeah, I was taking a break, I was taking a break. I got my knee past the line of your hips, and you wouldn't let go. And you know me, I'm really, one of the things I talk about the most for you guys is getting you guys early, early, early in your journey to understand that it's okay to let go of shit that's no longer working. And I want you to do that. I want you to learn to recognize those things as soon as you possibly can while doing this stuff. And when you wouldn't let go of my foot after I got it past your hip, I was like, don't you fucking let go! You're like, what? I was like, you don't have it anymore, and you're like, I was tired. I was in a safe spot, I was breathing, there was no pressure. And there really was only like 15 seconds left in our round, that was really funny. Was there a turning point for you when it became, from when it was like something to try to something that you need? Oh, dude, it was right away. Like, I don't think there was any, I don't think there was any trial period. Like, as soon as I walked in the door and experienced that, the feeling, I mean, of just like pure mindfulness, presence, you know? It's amazing how this art can do that, you know? It can just, you know, there's a video circulating of a guy walking in, the camera angle is at his feet, he's just about to take his slides off and step on the mat, and there's all this noise, and as soon as his feet come out of the slides and he steps on the mat, it gets quiet. And that's a perfect representation of what happens for me. And I think that was immediate. I mean, even with the panic, even with the fear, even with the chaos of trying to just survive in the beginning, you know, nothing, I can't hear anything else. That outside world is gone. And it's crazy. You found a sense of comfort amidst the discomfort, right? Yes. That's another thing I talk about a lot, is that sense of presence that you experience when you're training. I know what I like to say about it, but I'd like to hear what you feel. Like, what do you think it is that gives you that feeling of presence when you're on the mats, and what does it do for you when you leave the room and go to the rest of your life? What do I think it is? I know what I think it is. I hate to piggyback off of what you often say, but I kind of have to. I don't know that I can say it better. It's hard to think about the homework assignment or what happened at work when someone's trying to choke you. It's hard to think about the argument that you had with your wife when somebody's trying to break your arm. Exactly. I think you're trying to defend yourself from, I don't want to say sudden death, because I don't believe anybody in here is actually trying to kill me, but instinctually, I think that's a little bit of what happens. Our nervous system is hardwired, and it doesn't really recognize the difference until it becomes habitual. Those early days, you're going to get the same adrenaline dump that you would get from a real fight. After a while, I feel as if after a while of training, we start to adapt. I think about it. I won't say it's nothing for me, but every Friday night and every Sunday morning, I do six, seven, eight rounds. Sometimes those rounds are six or seven minutes long. If you were to do that to somebody who's a month into training, they probably would sleep for a few days. Because they just would have so much adrenaline just crash. No, it's great. I love that. The presence. Like you said, I talk about that a lot. It's hard to think about what your problems are when somebody's trying to strangle you. The other question you asked me, I think, was what does it do for me outside of this? Oh, yeah. I did, yeah. It's invaluable. I think that that's one of the things that keeps me coming back. I love what happens when I'm here. The instant gratification of the art. But the delayed gratification or the way that it affects who I am outside of here is incredible as well. To try to describe that. I'm more patient of a husband. I'm more patient of a father. I'm better at my job. I'm better at interactions with humans, period. I think it's been discussed a lot, too. I'll probably jump off of who knows. Who knows where I heard it, but I'm just going to steal it. The problem-solving aspect of this art translates to life, period. That's been my experience. I am instinctually starting to think about step A, step B, step C, D, E, F. All the way through a problem as I'm walking into it. Which I think is something that you have to do on an extreme scale in jiu-jitsu. It's very fast. Then I think it's starting to, at least I think, come for me that I'm starting to think of solutions before somebody's even doing something. It's like Steve said in the last episode. It's problem-solving in real time, in real movement, in the real thought processes of individual A and individual B. There's so many variables of that that go into how we feel afterwards and what we're able to take away from the art and practically apply into our day-to-day life. Speaking of work, what do you do for work, my man? I'm a registered nurse. I work in an ICU right now, adult ICU, mixed ICU. I've been a little bit of all over the place with this job. I started out in emergency medicine, shifted gears. I went into behavioral health, drug and alcohol treatment. When you and I met, when I was doing CrossFit, that's where I was at. I was working in drug and alcohol treatment. This is an issue that's very important to me, very personal to me, a field that's very personal to me. We'll get into why that's personal to you here in a moment. It made me happy, but I wasn't challenged in a lot of ways in that field. The old me, I guess, would have been okay just coasting through that and going into a job that was, quote-unquote, easy and being okay with not being challenged. When I started CrossFit, when you and I met, I became addicted to growth. I became addicted to challenges. I was looking for ways all the time to try to get better. That's what led me to, okay, I want to try to go into this critical care portion of this field. Ever since then, man, it's been ever-changing. I've been growing. I've been challenging myself. I was on a helicopter for a little while, critical care transport medicine with this job. Now, I'm going even further to further my career through education. I just recently enrolled in a doctorate program. That's something that I never thought that I would do. I was the guy, I'm telling you, that would just coast. It's easy, cool, easy money, let's go. The gym, the CrossFit gym, and now the walls of this jiu-jitsu gym and this art have made that unacceptable to me. Have there been moments where you've practically applied what you've learned from jiu-jitsu in your job? Oh, yeah. Well, the problem-solving aspect, absolutely, all the time. It's making me way more efficient. The actual art, too. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Can you give a good example of how you applied to problem-solving? Yeah. So, when nurses kind of go into a room or a situation, we have to be efficient, right? There's a lot, the demand is high. There's a lot of charting. There's a lot of things that need to be done. And I would like, I mean, I'm hyperactive, right? No. My brain's bouncing around all over the place, all the time, you know, at baseline. You're the friend that if I text, they call back. Yep. Every time, dude. Yep. I need to take care of it right now or I'm going to forget, right? That's what happens in my head. But anyway, so that's me at baseline at work. And, you know, it would not be uncommon for me to walk into a room to do a task and realize, oh, I forgot this. And walk back out and get it and come back. And, you know what? I forgot this, too. And walk back out and come back, which is fine, right? I'll get my job done, but it's not efficient. But what happens when you're trying to do something on the mats and you need a handful of things to be in the right place or very close to the right place for what you're about to do to work? What happens if you forget one of those? You get caught. You get caught. You get caught. Or what you were trying to do doesn't work. Right. It does work, but it works very difficult. Right. Very challenging, right? So now what do you do to prevent those, oh, I forgot this. Oh, I forgot that. Yeah. And that's exactly it. Like I said before, I'm thinking about every single step of what I'm doing before I walk in. And it's making me more efficient. Hell yeah. And it translates directly. And then the other side of how I've used this art at work, you know, we have patients that sometimes are dangerous. I think anybody in healthcare can attest they've experienced it at least one time. And, you know, you preach, and the art, I believe, preaches safety of everybody involved in a physical art altercation. And that's what I've done. I've used, you know, both wrist grips and a little tiny bit of chest pressure to stop somebody from hurting themselves and hurting everybody else until we can safely manage them. Something I directly learned from jujitsu used in the workplace. I love that. I love that. I got nervous for a moment because you started talking about your work and the drug and alcohol treatment thing. I know it's a very, very important thing for you. And it's actually probably the biggest chunk of what I imagined we would talk about today. And I was like, please don't jump the gun. Please don't jump the gun. And you set us up. You're great at this. Let's go. You set us up perfectly to talk about work. And now you're setting us up perfectly to talking about your sobriety. So what happened? What did you get addicted to? As comfortable as you're going, what are potentially some of the bad decisions you made while you were addicted? And then I'll go into some more stuff after that. What happened to you that you found yourself on that path? What was it that you were using? And what kind of terrible things could possibly happen while you were? So the story starts. I was 14. Well, I'd go back a little further than that. I was hanging out with my friends, older brothers, you know, at a young age. And the kids that were in my middle school back then, the cool kids were not the kids that were playing sports. And getting good grades and, you know, doing what they were supposed to do. They were the kids that were smoking cigarettes and lighting fireworks and skateboarding. And, you know, that was the scene. And, you know, I started kind of experimenting with things at age 12. You know, 11, 12 years old. And it kind of created a perfect storm. You know, at 14 years old, I'm bouncing on a trampoline with my friends. And I broke my leg. And it was a femur fracture. Left femur fracture. Very, very hard bone to break. Turns out I had a large tumor. And, you know, by the grace of God in the universe, it was not cancer. But what did happen was I was introduced to painkillers. And, you know, with a little bit of experience with mood and mind-altering substances before that, this substance, for me, it took away all of the insecurities of being an early teenager. And, I mean, I'm sure anybody can relate to that. You know, being a young teenager and trying to figure out how to get girls to like you and, you know, how to have friends and how to be cool in school and, you know, navigate all the things that you're learning to navigate, which is just life, right? This substance... You mean the things that we're supposed to experience? We're supposed to experience discomfort while navigating that process? We're not supposed to try to, like, mask it with humor, with substance, with... We're actually just supposed to feel it? The human experience. Right? And it's perfect that you said that because that's exactly where this problem develops. And that's exactly what the disease of addiction is. You know, it's a life problem that people find substances to deal with. But anyway, so, all of the things at this pivotal learning point in my life that I'm supposed to learn how to navigate, I figured out I didn't have to navigate if I could just use these substances. If you could be high. Correct. And it made me funny. It made me likable. It made me... Because none of those insecurities... Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So you're not sober because you're definitely funny... I appreciate that. I feel like it took me a long time to get, you know, that way. So yeah, it took away all these insecurities for me and that was it. I mean, that was the rest of history. I mean, I took off and ran with it. I had all of the friends and their older brothers that were already doing the stuff that I was doing. I was kind of a late bloomer when it came to that, believe it or not, at 14 years old with my group of friends. Yeah. You know, and I just tried to destroy my life, you know, without knowing that that's what I was doing. All my friends were overdosing and going to jail and, you know... Were you close to either? For sure. Yeah? I mean, it's an absolute miracle. You know, I choose to believe that it's... You know, this is a question of what came first to the chicken or the egg, I guess, but maybe I used the motivation from the gratitude I have for not ending up in those places to fuel me to do what I'm doing with my career or maybe it was a predetermined thing that I was supposed to end up here and that's why, you know, now that stuff happened. I don't know. Yeah. But, so that's the road that I went down. There were a couple times that I had periods where I realized, like, I hate myself, I hate what I'm doing, I need to do something about this and I would try, quote, unquote, try, you know, and fail and go back and one of those times brought me to Pennsylvania. You know, I was 20 years old and my friends were not doing anything with their lives neither was I. I barely graduated high school. It's a miracle that I graduated high school. You know, I finally let my parents help me a little bit and I just said, you know what, I have no more good contacts at all in this area on Middle East and you know what I was doing, Ron? I was running away. Surprise. Again. Right? You were quitting? I was running away. From Arizona, Scottsdale, Arizona to Podunk, Pennsylvania where I thought, I'll never find these substances because it's a bunch of farmers and hicks out here and they don't know what drugs are. You were wrong. Correct. Because guess what I did? I brought me with me. You know, and without doing any real work on yourself or myself or even on me, I think it's impossible to change. You know, so surprise, I found the exact same stuff with different faces and the exact same feelings in different packages. What I did have that was different was I had a little bit more family around me and I had a look at a career. Okay. Right? Yeah. And I had finally had some real desperation and you know, desperation comes in a lot of packages. It doesn't have to be a jail cell. It doesn't have to be a hospital room. It doesn't have to be a hospital room. It doesn't have to be a hospital room. It doesn't have to be a hospital room. You know, for me, it was the torturous cell of my mind of hating myself. Yeah. You know, I was never happy. I was chasing something that doesn't exist, right? A feeling of being okay. It does exist but I think what a lot of people fail to understand especially at an early age is that it's never constant, right? And we're supposed to experience moments of joy. We're supposed to experience moments of sorrow. We're supposed to experience moments of anger. We're supposed to like, all of these things that we do feel, we're supposed to experience moments of joy. We're supposed to experience moments of anger. We're supposed to experience moments of sorrow. We're supposed to experience moments of joy. We're supposed to experience moments of anger. We're supposed to experience moments of sorrow. We're supposed to experience moments of joy. We're supposed to experience moments of sorrow. We're supposed to experience moments of joy. We're supposed to experience moments of sorrow. We're supposed to experience moments of joy. We're supposed to experience moments of sorrow. We're supposed to experience moments of joy. We're supposed to experience moments of sorrow. 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