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Dr. Daniel, a dentist, and the speaker discuss dental school and medical school. Dr. Daniel argues that dental school is harder because they have to specialize in the most important organ, the mouth. They also discuss the education and training required for both professions. Dr. Daniel went to NYU College of Dentistry and did his residency at Yale. He emphasizes the importance of practicing on real patients and the use of standardized patients in dental school. They also mention the cost of dental school, which can be around $100,000. The conversation ends with a discussion about the challenges and tests in dental school. You've seen me take on law school, but it's time to take on dental school. Please welcome Dr. Daniel to the channel. Thanks for having me. Are you nervous? Not at all. Well, medical school is about to beat dental school because we're the cooler school. All the medical students say the exact same line, so... Okay, well, we're about to find out because he just yelled at me for not flossing. Sorry about that, by the way. Huge thanks to SoFi for sponsoring this video. Which is harder, dental school or med school? It's so obvious. Dental school, obviously. It's so one organ versus 78 organs. So we have to learn all the organs and specialize in this massive, most important organ. Name 10 organs. Let's not talk about it right now. Let's focus on the question that was asked. Dental school. Name three organs in the abdominal cavity. We have a cavity. Speaking of cavities, let's talk about your cavity. Speaking of cavities, let's talk about your cavity. Four years of education plus at least three years of residency. Four years of dental school. If you want to specialize, you could get into another four years of residency or three years. It depends on the specialty. Not only are you reading books and memorizing facts, but you have to be really good with your hands. So the hand skills have to be not up to here, but superior. And if you're a surgeon? If you're a surgeon, then you're a surgeon. But in family medicine, we rotate through surgery because we perform minor surgery. I'm not going to go and start opening up someone's abdomen. But if in case of an emergency, and I'm your only hope, I can do it. Or a dentist could do it. No, a dentist can't do it. Where did you go to school and for how long? I went to NYU College of Dentistry. OK. And I did my residency at Yale. Oh, so we're putting residencies on here too? But I did my degree in a seven year program at NYIT, College of Osteopathic Medicine, not NYT.com. New York Institute of Technology, College of Osteopathic Medicine. So this was an accelerated program. So I had, where's your undergrad? OK, so I'll write that too. I've been a New York guy most of my life. OK, so how long in dental school? Four years. And college? And undergrad? Undergrad. Could be four years or three years. How many years did you do? I did undergrad in three years. No, you didn't. Yes, I did. Stop lying. I promise you. You also did a seven year thing? It was a make-believe seven year thing, but I pushed through. Like summers, I took classes so I didn't have to like spend the four, four and a half years. I knew what I wanted to do, so I kind of like tried to steamroll through. Doesn't Brooklyn College have a seven year track for... For medical school. For medical school, not dental. But yeah, seven years is basically you go, you do the three years, you continue on as long as you meet the criteria of the scores and yearly GPA and all that stuff. How many schools did you apply to and to how many were you accepted? You applied to only one school? One school and I got into one school. I would not recommend that. You're confident. I would not recommend that. Is that because you have a white coat on? That's exactly the reason. My parents, I'm very lucky, both my parents are dentists, and they both went to NYU Dental. And I just saw that as the school to go to. They gave my family an opportunity to become who they are today. And I was going to do whatever I needed to do to get into this program and school. So the majority of you, please apply to many, many schools. I didn't apply to medical school, so this is actually not accurate. I applied to that seven year program, which is undergrad first. And then you just happen to continue into the medical school. Anyway, this is... One for one. But my dad also went to the same school. It just used to be called New York College of Osteopathic Medicine. So we are following in our family's footsteps. And we're very lucky, right? We're both very lucky. Yeah, we are very lucky. Well, our parents did it both as immigrants, right? That's true. Our parents did it as immigrants who spoke different languages. And we were lucky enough to follow in their footsteps. What was the best part of medical or dental school? Some of these patients seemed like they were cadaver. They didn't want to move. They looked at me like, what are you going to do here? So why was that the best part? Why? Because I went into this field to help people in dental school to be able to work on patients prior to becoming a doctor. I thought it was such an amazing thing. And you start your patient skills in dental school. And who teaches you? Is there like a senior dentist that walks around and watches you and holds your hand? So you do have senior dentists, you have older classmates, and you also have doctors that have retired that are there supervising. I've actually been curious about that. Do you practice on a mold first? Yes. So we practice on mannequins that don't talk, don't respond. Really? But it's a real, like it's everything in the material is the same? No, it's like plastic teeth. But is it a realistic teaching experience? Not at all. Because human beings talk back to you. Human beings. They move. This mannequin is the perfect patient. Their mouth is open and you can open and stretch it as much as you can. So you never had standardized teachers? Sometimes people could even take the teeth out of the mouth and drill it and put it back. Oh, they did that? Some dental students, I know you guys are watching. Wow, they cheated. Little cheaters, I see. Wow, okay. So for us, it was different because we had standardized patients. What does that mean, standardized patients? They're paid actors. Really? Act with certain conditions. That's cool. And you would literally walk into a room and you would not know what's going on. And you have to treat it like a real patient encounter. And you have, it's timed, you know, like 15 minutes or whatever the time was to find out what's going on with them. They're all trained to give you some scenario with practice, rehearsed answers, questions. But then also they have something unique going on. They're really mad. They're crying. They're throwing up. They would literally have stuff in their mouth and spit it out. And then you get graded on the encounter from the video of the session and your note, how well it was written. But cadaver lab was the coolest part. For me, cadaver lab was the coolest part because you get to see the parts of the body that you only see in textbooks, in drawings. And it looks completely different. You realize what a mishmash the body is inside and how everything's actually interconnected with fascia and how you need to separate it out. And you grow a respect for the body. But at the same time, when you're studying for the test and it's midnight and no one else is there and it's dark, it's kind of spooky. That is very spooky, yeah. It's my life goal. I haven't yet committed to this because I have some weird fears, but I want to donate my body to a cadaver lab. Wow. So if you're a school and you're interested in my cadaver lab, drop a comment. You know what? I'll take one step further. I'll donate my teeth. As specifically as you can recall, how much did it cost to go to medical or dental school? How many years? Four years. But I thought dental school was three years. Four years. Is it ever three years? Maybe back in the day, there used to be like some accelerated program. But I don't think so. And I was doing some research because I went to school many years ago. $300,000? It's at almost $100,000, just school. Not room and board or anything. Right now? $100,000. Isn't NYU medical school free? We award full tuition scholarships to all current students. Where was this when I went to school? Just a quick pause before we dive back into our engaging discussion. You know, as someone who's been through med school, I totally understand the weight of student debt. It can be tough to navigate all the interest rates and payment plans, but there's good news. SoFi is here to make things easier for you. SoFi is an awesome all-in-one finance app that can help you refinance your student loans, offering competitive interest rates and flexible repayment options. This means you could lower interest rates, potentially saving thousands of dollars, or even consolidate multiple loans to simplify the repayment process. And it's not just me who thinks SoFi is great. Over half a million people have refinanced more than $30 billion in student debt with their help. You could be next. Want to give it a try? Just head on over to SoFi.com slash Dr. Mike. Don't forget to spell out doctor and take a minute to fill out your info. It's super quick and checking your options won't impact your credit score. With SoFi's help, you can take control of your student debt and focus on what really matters. All right. Now that we got that covered, let's jump in with Dr. Daniel. What is the worst part of medical or dental school? How often did you get a test? Because I still remember... Honestly, I felt like the second... Welcome to NYU Dental School. You have an exam tomorrow. Hey, I just got in. I don't even know where I'm at. Prior to dental school, everything was on a piece of paper. You'd take the exams on scantrons and so forth. And I think the year that I went into dental school, they're like, we're going to do it on the computer. I'm like, sounds very technical and cool and whatever. I didn't understand it very well. I wasn't very good at computers. So the first question, I read it. I'm like, I don't want to answer this next question. I click next. I don't want to answer right now. I think I know the answer. I wanted to skim through it. You weren't allowed to go back. So I'm starting off my career in dental school with like a 50. We would have three exams per testing segment. You have the written exam. Then you have your OMT, which is a hands-on exam. And then you also have your cadaver exam. You're doing three exams within one day. And that's every two weeks. How would you describe your professors? I really wanted to get to know them because I knew that they will play a big role in my life. I did the best that I could. I spent extra hours working on my craft. And I think they saw that. They saw how hard I was working. And I saw that they were willing to devote their energy and time. And these teachers, professors don't make any money, really. So they're doing it from the bottom of their heart. And I really respected that. I was very surprised. I thought in med school, the professors and people would be mean. But they actually genuinely would be upset if someone didn't do well on an exam because they felt like they failed. First test and time during, what does it say? Trauma. You definitely have Dr. Shin right here. Trauma in Brooklyn. In Brooklyn. Oh, you were student body president? Yeah. I was very lucky enough and honored to become the student body president. That was the first time I ever got involved in any little politics. And let me tell you, it sucks. Any type of politics, that's terrible. I got to work very closely with the dean of NYU Dental. And he really mentored me on how to approach a room and how to lead and speak to people and become a better person. And be kind and generous, but also have your point across in a very specific way. And so just because I went to dental school doesn't mean that you can't learn anything else while in dental school. What about you? The first test I did really good. I got like a 97. I was like, I'm going to crush med school. What a difference. Next time, I got like 50. No, but it was a rough start off. And then I remember during even Hurricane Sandy, I was working in one of the level one trauma centers in Brooklyn. Got to see some wild scenarios. Got to learn how to throw in an 18 gauge IV, scrub into a lot of surgeries, but also at the same time learned that I didn't want to become a surgeon. Because initially I wanted to do surgery. And I scrubbed in, I think, to 60 surgeries. And I was like, this ain't for me. I think that's even more important than school itself. Yeah. Figuring out what you don't want to do or what doesn't make you happy. Well, that's why it's important the first two years of medical school, you learn like the sciences, the basics, and then you move in and actually learn what it's like to be on the wards. How would you describe your personal life while in medical or dental school? No, but see, I disagree with yours. Let me see. See, I think mine happens to be sad, but I don't think it needs to be sad. I think you can have a personal life. Once I started to understand how to study and I was very efficient, I had a little bit more time to unwind. I played a lot of sports. I went to the gym. Did have a little bit of a personal life, but the personal life should not take over your main goal, which is graduating. And a lot of students were failing exams because they would go out more than they should. So you have to be really self-aware. Priorities are important. No, but... Why was yours sad? First, I moved in and I lived on campus, like near campus, and it was fine. It was going well. But then I unfortunately, you know, I lost my mom. So I had to move back into Staten Island. And because of that, I started commuting. Then I got used to the idea of commuting. So I almost fully disconnected from my class and never created friendships, wasn't involved as a student body president in the government. Like I completely lost all the opportunities to get involved. And I would go out. I would have a personal life, but not connected to my community, which sucks. What's one thing you would change about medical or dental school? The amount of exams on a weekly basis was extraordinary. It was too many. And I think that it kind of takes away from actually experiencing dental school and understanding what dentistry is about and really engulfing within the community. Because when you're constantly just studying for these exams, I mean, you kind of miss out. And also the tuition. I think tuition is very, very high. Tuition. Very, very high. And what's happening is many people that are graduating from dental and medical school with these high loans that they took on, they have to do things maybe that they shouldn't. So they jump on like a chain dental just to see as many patients as possible. Try to make their money back. So the ethics and morals kind of like start to shift and wander away. Maybe become more about money. What were in your exams? I'm always curious about that. What's your name? Like, are they asking you questions about like white blood cell function? Exactly. Pharmacology. Any diseases. Any diseases? Or just dental diseases? Like autoimmune disease? Exactly. So in order for us to understand the head and neck, we have to understand how the body works. Because the mouth is connected to the rest of the body. So you would have like cardiovascular? Yes. Really? Yes. As we went closer to graduation, it would go from really broad to more narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow. And teeth is the last thing that we focus on. Well, I want to keep the Krebs cycle and add improv. There's a movement to remove the Krebs cycle from education and instead bring in like a more humanistic approach and less scientific approach to medicine. And I think that's a mistake. I think you need to keep the scientific knowledge in. But our communication sucks as doctors. Yes. So we need to add improv, which forces us to leave the book and stop thinking about the future, which we all do in healthcare. And think about the moment. Even we communicate really poorly on social media between each other, attacking each other. It gets quite toxic within the medical communities for no reason. A lot of us are on the same page. We're all on the same team. Yeah. What is one piece of advice you would give to someone just starting medical or dental school today? So don't let one exam or class You left me hanging there. deter you or deteriorate you or discourage you from achieving the goal of why you started medical school or dental school. Whatever grade you think is the worst grade in the world, learning how to move on past that and keep moving forward and doing the best that you can. I think that's the most important. Do not let one exam or class change that. Get back up on the horse. Get back on that horse and keep going. As you said, do it for the right reasons. Make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. I was going to write reconsider, but I don't want people to think that I'm discouraging folks from going into medicine. Medicine is in a tricky place. Yes. Where doctors are in a very tumultuous situation where things are changing rapidly. Their skills will be shifting. Their reimbursements will be shifting. Even style of work will be shifting. It's so worth it because the field is so rewarding and it's so much fun and it's really cool. But with all those challenges, you better be doing it for the right reasons because if you think you're doing it to get rich or you're doing it because Papa Bear did it. It's cool to be a doctor or whatever the case is. That's not it. That ain't it. You ain't him. You ain't him. Bring it back to the beginning. Which is harder? Med school or dental school? What did this guy write? School is more expensive. Med school is harder. What did you say? I think medical school and dental school has the same amount of problems and trauma, mental trauma, all that stuff. But if you do it for the right reasons. No, no, no. I agree. I think that both are really hard. I just think there's so much more. Maybe because I still don't grasp what's being taught in dental school. It's crazy because you think you see teeth and there's a tongue and the lips. You're like, oh, that's dental school. The amount of understanding and the amount of details that comes into understanding the head and neck is tremendous. Okay, so I'll say dental school is more expensive and med is harder, but only by a tiny, tiny bit. So dental school is pretty tough, but I also took on law school with the man himself. Legal Eagle. Click here to check that out. And as always, stay happy and healthy. Huge thanks to SoFi for sponsoring this video.
