Episode 9: Following the Beat of His Abeulo

The podcast discusses the Pots, Pans, and Gritos podcast, which focuses on the experiences of English learners. The host interviews a high school student named Denzey, who is involved in various activities and shares his experiences as a Latinx student in the US school system. They also discuss Latino music and introduce three artists: Peso Pluma, El Trono de Mexico, and Esbalon Armado. Denzey talks about his involvement in the marching band and his desire to continue playing music in college. He shares his cultural background, with family roots in Honduras, El Salvador, and Mexico. He also discusses the growing presence of Latin music in the mainstream industry. We have no weapons, we only have pots and pans. We have no power, we only have pots and pans. Beat the pots, bang the pans. This is our revolution. Welcome to the Pots, Pans, and Gritos podcast, a voice for the English learner. I'm your host, Nolan Shigley. In this week's episode, I sit down with one of Salem High School's most active students. Denzey plays percussion in the marching band, he's a leader in the multicultural club, and he participates in our after-school program, Si Se Puede, Yes You Can. It's a program led by Roanoke College students to mentor young, college-bound Latino students. Denzey is U.S. born, but has immediate family from several parts of Latin America. Today, we chat about our favorite subject, music, while diving into common themes of our program, family, education, and of course, the various elements of his cultures. Denzey shares the challenges he has experienced as a Latinx in the U.S. school system, but also the opportunities that have presented themselves thanks to his bilingualism. Along with our discussion, enjoy discovering the creative songwriting of one of my favorite bands, Chicano Batman. Well, what is a Chicano? You've no doubt heard this term often used on our program. Actually, it began as a racial term toward Mexican Americans and recent immigrants in the early 20th century, but it was then reclaimed and evolved into an endearing term for many individuals born in the United States with parents from Mexico. The band Chicano Batman is comprised of Mexican Americans, of course, but also has roots in Colombia and El Salvador. The tracks you'll hear today come from their album, Freedom is Free. As always, our mission is to create an archive of meaningful accounts while sharing artists with similar experiences and cultural backgrounds. And now, here are their stories. Give me three Latino artists on your playlist that we need to discover. Definitely like Peso Pluma. That's like one of the top one artists right now for Mexico. I'm going to go with some old classic, El Trono de Mexico, they make Correros Rancheros. And then, Esbalon Armado, the band that makes like some songs. What is Peso Pluma? He's like, he, I think he started making music a couple years ago, but definitely it's like different style from what he makes now with like the new type of Corrido, Corridos Tumbados. Explain what that is. I believe Corridos Tumbados is mostly like off guitar, like more, like more bass and more guitar heavy from what I feel like, because most of the songs that I listen to, they're like, say that's Corridos Tumbados have more like guitar and bass than any other instruments. What was the second band you listed? Trono de Mexico. Style of music? Definitely like Rancheros, like the old style of music. Like the OGs would listen to like my parents. Now, OG to which, which nation, which country? Definitely Mexico. Definitely Mexico. So Peso Pluma, where is, where are they from? He's from Mexico. Okay, so you've given me two Mexican bands. What about our third? Esbalon Armado, it's a band, but I think the members are grew up in like California or like in the United States, but the parents are from Mexico as well. Okay, so they are Chicano. Denzey, introduce yourself. Right now, I'm a junior, about to go into senior year. Definitely, I'm in the marching band for the Salem High School. I do have, I do have a job. I like to cook a lot. Definitely help my mom. She makes tamales on the side to sell. They're really good. Very cool. So you can prepare tamales. We're going to have to get into that later. Tell me about the marching band. Well, I only started this, well, yeah, this summer because my friends were telling me to join. And so I was like, well, something I've never tried, really. I always wanted to try it. And what instruments did you play? I mostly play percussion. Okay. Because that's what my grandpa used to play. He also played the guitar. So I also try to learn that. I do have the hang of it off the guitar, but definitely feel like I need more practice for it. So what instruments do you play within the marching band? Well, right now, I'm playing the auxiliary right now. But definitely, I wanted to play the bass drum. You said auxiliary instruments. What does that include? So it's not like the marimba. It's like mallet pieces or the snare drum, bass drum, tenors. It's mostly like sound effects, background. So like the rain stick, you know, like- Or the thunder we just heard. Yeah. So definitely, it's more like bings, clicks, pals, and all that. When do you use that within a score, within a song? So it'd be mostly like background effects. So like cymbals, right? Maybe there's a song with crash cymbals going really hard or going soft. So that could also work with it. Is there a specific song you can give me that we would hear your talents? Well, maybe like a lot of Hispanic songs. Definitely. If you're close to in the background, you could probably hear something like... Something like that. Maybe something you would also hear in a traditional salsa song? Yeah. So maybe like the click, clack. Stuff like that. People might... It's like there's a lot of things that could be auxiliary. Just like maybe even clapping your hands because that's something like a background effect. There's a lot of things that could be easily auxiliary. Just a few minutes ago, it was raining so hard. Sounded like a rain stick. So how did you get interested in the marching band? Was it solely through your friends? Well, yes. I did try to join, but because of my sister needed surgery, and so my parents really couldn't pay it off, pay marching band and then try to pay off the surgery for my sister. So I decided not to do marching band for my 10th grade year. And so then I think that really inspired me to try to do marching band again, because I didn't have a chance last year. So I'm going to try to do it this year. But definitely me getting a job really helped with me and my parents, like helping them pay off a lot of things, helping me pay off for the marching band. If you could introduce a song or two to the marching band that might represent your culture, what would sound good at halftime of a Salem High School football game? So one of the newer songs, well, not new, but it's like up to date, right? Would be Ella Baila Sola from Peso Pluma, right? That does have a lot of hard instruments in the background. Obviously, there isn't the guitar or bass in the back. But I feel like with just the instruments, like the trumpets, trombones, clarinets, flute, they could easily have that in the background, right? But then definitely the chona, something even more funnier, maybe not even halftime, but maybe when the game starts playing. Just to taunt the other team. You're relatively new to music now, correct? Or at least as a musician. As a musician, probably yes. But I've always wanted to play an instrument since I was little, because I always heard my mom tell stories about my grandpa. He was able to play the guitar, the bongos, and a lot of instruments. And so I was like, oh, man, I want to play the flute or the trumpet and all that when I was really little. Did you get an opportunity to meet your grandfather? Sadly, no. Before I was born, he passed away. Are there any recordings of him? I don't think so. Maybe there's a photo of him, but definitely no recordings, because technology for Honduras wasn't that advanced in here. Maybe if they lived here in the United States, there probably was. But because there wasn't that advanced technology in Honduras, there's probably not. How do you see your future music? Probably go to college and play for the Marching Band. Fantastic. So you want to continue with the Marching Band. You're really enjoying this. Where would you like to play? Definitely at JMU. Oh, man. And they have an incredible, incredible marching band. So kind of in that same vein, how do you see the Latin music industry becoming more mainstream in the United States? Well, right now, there is, if you go to the top 100 billboards for the United States, there is some couple Hispanic songs there. But I feel like that's just mostly from the Hispanic people than from more of American, because it's not really Americans listening to all the Hispanic songs. It's mostly the Hispanics listening to them. But I know definitely in the future, there's going to be more of collabs with Hispanics musicians, with Americans musicians. Like a couple years ago, Bad Bunny and Drake, they made that one song together. Oh, you see him everywhere now. Yeah. Bad Bunny and Drake. And then Carol G with her recent big award. So there's definitely going to be more Hispanic singers influencing American styles. So you hinted that your grandfather's from Honduras. There is, Mexico is somehow in your culture as well. Why don't you explain the cultures within your household and within your family tree? Okay. So definitely, my grandma, she's from El Salvador. But at the age of 15, she met my grandpa when she was 30, which nowadays is like, it's kind of weird. It's a big difference, isn't it? Yeah. But over there, it's something like extremely normal. People don't mind. But over here in the United States, it's like, that's kind of weird. But definitely because of the war, she had to move out. And so she decided to move in with my grandpa. And then they had a lot of kids. So your grandfather, Honduran, grandmother, El Salvador. And then where were your parents born? So both of my parents were born in Honduras. But they came here and they met each other. But when I was around two, my dad got deported. Yeah. But my mom and my dad were separated at the time. So I guess it really didn't affect my mom a lot. But over the years, there's been ups and downs with me and my mom. Not between us, but with the people that we lived with. But until she met with my stepdad, I think everything chilled out. And I've been really healthy and happy. Very cool. So glad to hear. And this is where that Mexican culture came from. Yeah. So my stepdad, or I like to call him my dad, he's Mexican. And so his culture, his Mexican, rubbed into me. Let me ask you this. What elements of each culture do you celebrate or practice? So right now, my grandma is at my house. She's coming to visit me for two months. But I think she's about to leave on the 21st. So she doesn't have like, she has like two weeks, you say. But definitely, like El Salvadorano side of her is like coming out a little bit. But because she mostly now grew up in Honduras, it kind of has faded. But there's definitely like, it's just all food, I feel like. All food from El Salvador? Yeah, because she taught my mom how to make pupusas. And so my mom makes some really good pupusas. Can you explain to our listeners what a pupusa is? So pupusa is just a tortilla with, before like it's in the dough stage, they either put like beans or queso or like anything that normally comes in. And then they probably shape it into like the shape of like a tortilla. And just put it in to cook. So my favorite is with loroco. Can you explain what loroco is? Loroco is like the, like the vegetable, right? Yeah, it's like an herb. Yeah, it's like the, it's like the lettuce with like vinegar. Well, not vinegar, but it has like, I think it might be vinegar. Yeah, what do you put on top of your pupusas? I really just normally put cheese. You don't put the codito? No. No? I normally, because I put like queso fresco or queso duro. That's, that's the hungry inside of me that's coming out, like queso duro, queso seco. With any salsa? Sometimes. Okay. So that's your El Salvador. So what aspect of Honduras comes out in you? So the tamales, the way how I speak, um, la pupu, not pupusa. So your accent or the, the vocabulary? Vocabulary. Okay. So the, the, the words you use. And then, um, la baleadas, like mostly food too. And then the, you have a third side to you from Mexico. The new one. Yeah. The song and, so songs, and then I'm also picking up like the language, like, um, not the accent, but vocabulary. And then, um, music and then food. So, and I don't know that a lot of people understand how vastly different the vocabulary can be. Yeah. Yes. These countries are in Latin America and yes, they speak Spanish, but the vocabulary can be so different. Can you give me an example of maybe some words that you would, you would know in Mexico, but you would have no idea what it meant if you were in El Salvador or Honduras? So definitely like the big one that everyone like complains about is straw, popote, right? Mexicans actually use popote, but I don't remember. I think it might be pejilla. Yep. I recognize that word. So definitely like over there. And so I've, I've like, when I went to, um, there's like this Honduran store, the restaurant at Williamson road. And so when they asked, when they asked me if I wanted a straw, but they said, get home pejilla. I was like, huh? I was so confused. The first time I ever went down there. So let's talk about your EL past and your EL present. And you haven't been with EL services for a while. Yeah. You're on my caseload, but you don't really need my assistance too much. In elementary school you did, correct? Yeah. Like in elementary school, I like, because I was only taught Spanish and because the first, well, like I'm like the second kid, like my mom has, but because my older sister is Honduras, she couldn't really bring her here. And then I was like the second one, but I'm like her first one in the United States. And you were, you were born in the United States. I was born in the United States. Yes. Um, so in elementary school, I didn't have like no one to really like understand me. So it was at Troutville where I went and it was just all, all white kids. It was like, there was like no Hispanics there. I think I was like, maybe like one of the first Hispanics there. So I'm guessing they had no EL program there. They did, but because they had like no other Hispanic kids there, they really don't understand how to like, um, work with me because, um, they didn't have that many Latin speakers there. So how did you become fluent in, in English? By like working hard in it. I'm still like imperfect with it. There's some words I really couldn't say, but it's definitely like listening, like rap and all that definitely like really helped. So music helped you learn English. Yeah. That's one of your stronger tools. That's like what people don't realize is like, if you listen to like music, it could really help you because that's when like people try to like say the words correctly. And so if they mess up, they cut it out. And so you start realizing this is how you really pronounce it. When did you realize you were bilingual? Well, I was like, my mom was like, Hey, translate this for me or like that. But I was like, never really thought about until like maybe in high school when I started realizing like, Oh, you can make a lot of money out of this. Like this is what people really do for a career. Very cool. And that you were finding that you could communicate with anyone you encountered. Like when I work and I see some like people that have struggles with, I'd be like, Hey, do you need like help? I'll be like, or something like that. Very sweet. Adapting to your life as a Chicano. We had this conversation the other day, and you recalled a young man's story, Rojas' story about scrubbing his skin with a toothbrush. Can you tell us what that was about? So because it was like, no, the schools I went to, we moved a lot. The schools I went to, there wasn't that many Hispanics. And so I was like, people were like weirded from me because like, they probably never seen Hispanic, like from their school and all that. And so I was trying to like fit in. And I was like, this is like, the problem is me, like my skin tone, because I'm like more darker than anyone. And so I really can't express myself with anyone because I would just either get pushed away. And so the other day, Rojas, in our after school Si Se Puede program, was telling this story about, what did he say? How old was he? Was he in elementary or middle school? He was in elementary. And he thought that if he took a toothbrush, he could scrub the color of his skin away. And that was him at an early age, having this struggle with his identity and with racism within the school system. And you say you had kind of similar feelings? Yeah. I mean, nowadays, there's not a lot, because there's mostly like, if you go to almost every single school, there's going to be at least maybe a couple Hispanics. Would you say that this, our growing population of diversity here at Salem High School has helped you with this? Maybe like my, maybe last year, yes, because my freshman year, there wasn't that many. There was like a handful, but there wasn't like compared to like the other schools, like Fleming, which they have like a booming population of Hispanics there. But then 10th grade happened when like all the middle schoolers came up. There's even more. So I feel like, yeah, that definitely really helped me out. What else has helped you find and accept your identity? Talking to more people that like are Hispanics, or at least understand how I felt when I was little, because as like growing up here in Salem, where it's like mostly all like Americans, and there's not like different people that speak other languages. It's like really kind of hard for someone to express themselves. And so like any Hispanic that I knew, I was like trying to talk to them and all that. So we both like understood how we felt. And then I see you re-embracing your culture when you, when you lead discussions in our Si Se Puede program after school, during our multicultural club. And then of course, in Senora Konert's Spanish for Fluent Speakers course. And so you definitely, you definitely embrace your Latino roots, no? Yeah. I feel like people should really, even though they're not like, they're half Hispanic or not even like their grandparents who might have been Hispanics. I feel like they should even express more because it's something that's unique to them. And not all, not everyone has it. Do you think the struggle is stronger for a student like you who was, who was born in the United States with Latino parents versus a student that has immigrated? I feel like they both have their ups and downs. As like I grew up here, so I know the language. I know English very well. I know how people would react, what people will react to certain things. And contracts with someone who like just immigrated here, they don't know the language or like confused. They want to go back home. So I feel like they both have their ups and downs, but I feel like the people who migrate here would have it more difficult than, yes, there's some bad things with like, you know, me growing up with like having no one to compare to. But then I could also compare to the person who probably immigrated here because probably when I was growing up, I felt the same way. I want to go home. I don't want to be here at the school. So you recently revealed to me that you believe you have a future as a teacher. Mm-hmm. What level of teaching would you like to do? Elementary. Elementary. So that is vastly different than what I do here at the high school. Why elementary school? For like the students who were like the younger ones who have like Hispanic parents who immigrated here. So I don't want to like, I don't want like kids that grew up like me don't have like the same feelings and understanding. I want people to like know, like the little kids knowing that it's okay to be different instead of like people like throwing them off or like. Do you want to focus on EL instruction? Not really. I want to like definitely teach like probably like math or like, well, not math because that's like pretty much like teach like a class of like, you know, normal kids, but like any kids that like immigrated or have parents that immigrated here that only know Spanish. I feel like I could help them out. So you would love to teach in a diverse classroom. What has motivated you to become a teacher? Definitely you because you. Thank you. Because you help around with all the Hispanic kids here, even the ones that know English. I'm definitely Mr. Staples at the middle school, even though we barely saw each other because of COVID, he definitely really helped me out with like all the work because I didn't really understand a lot. And then there's this one middle elementary teacher that I lost contact with. But when I was probably second, like my first grade or second grade, when I used to go to this one school and it was Miss Francisco. And she was like very lovely with any all of her students. Right. But she was like an ELL teacher. She was just like you pretty much. But she had no she wasn't able to have kids. And so she treated us like kids. And I remember this one time I used to was like people used to make fun of me because I couldn't really pronounce a lot of words correctly. And so one day I went up to crying to her and then she went up to the principal and told them she pretty much told the principal what was going on. What sounds exciting to you about teaching? What are you looking forward to? Mostly like helping out little like people who feel left out. We have this discussion in class a lot that if we want to see more and more teachers and police officers and people in the community and leadership positions represent our cultures, then we got to be the first, the first wave, the first ones to do it right. That was Denzi, a multi talented young man who will one day increase the diversity of the educational workforce. I've been pleasantly surprised lately by the number of Latinx students that have demonstrated interest in becoming educators. You've heard from a few of them already and you'll hear from more in the near future. And like Denzi and I were discussing at the end of the interview, if you want change, then you have to be the change. I'm always encouraging my students to entertain the idea of becoming a teacher one day. I coax them in with the summers off and the great hours and all the benefits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then I ask them, how many other jobs allow you to positively impact the future of so many young people? Thank you, Denzi, for sharing your thoughts on culture and education in America. Thank you, Chicano Batman, for gracing us with your presence. And yeah, I'm still in shock that they gave our podcast permission to use their music. I'm humbled by the number of musicians who have believed in our mission and want to be part of it. Thank you, listeners, for joining us on another episode of Pots, Pans and Gritos. And as always, thank you for being an ally of English learners everywhere.