DEEP DIVE - Episode 86: Winning Without Fighting A New National Security Strategy

In this podcast episode, the host discusses the U.S.-China relationship and the challenges it presents. The guest, John Linskowski, believes that China is engaged in a Cold War with the U.S. He points to tactics such as strategic deception and espionage as evidence. Linskowski argues that China's ultimate goal is global domination through a system of tributary states. He suggests that the U.S. should seek allies within China and adopt an integrated national security strategy that combines military, diplomatic, economic, and information warfare approaches. Linskowski emphasizes the importance of promoting American values and countering Chinese propaganda. The guest also discusses the role of artificial intelligence in government efficiency and streamlining processes. Welcome to Deep Dive, a podcast brought to you by National Defense Lab. At National Defense Lab, we are at the forefront of innovative technologies and strategies to safeguard our nation and its people. Episode 86, Winning Without Fighting, a New National Security Strategy. Welcome back, everyone. We've had some really interesting requests lately about digging deeper into this whole U.S.-China thing. Seems like a lot of you are hungry for more than just those surface-level headlines. Yeah, for sure. Those headlines rarely capture the full picture, right? There's so much nuance to unpack, and we've got some great sources lined up to help us do just that. Absolutely. We're diving into an interview with John Linskowski, who, for those who don't know, was an advisor to President Reagan during the Gold War. Oh, wow, someone who really understands those dynamics. And he also founded the Institute of World Politics, so definitely knows a thing or two about global strategy and all that. For sure, that's quite the background. What else are we looking at? We've also got an opinion piece that he wrote specifically on how to counter China, plus this really fascinating white paper from the National Defense Lab that gets into the role of AI in government and defense. Okay, so we're talking strategy, ideology, and technology all wrapped up in this U.S.-China relationship. Sounds like it's going to be a dense one. It is. We're getting right to the heart of some big questions here. Like, is China really waging this Cold War against the U.S.? What are the things we should be worried about that aren't always obvious, and how can America push back without resorting to just traditional warfare? Yeah, those are the million-dollar questions, aren't they? So let's start with Linskowski. This guy really doesn't mince words in this interview. He flat-out says China is engaged in a Cold War with the U.S. Wow, right out of the gate. Okay, so what's his evidence? What makes him say that? Well, he points to all sorts of tactics they're using, things like strategic deception, espionage, these hidden influence operations. He even says that China has, get this, over 600 front organizations operating right here in the U.S. Six hundred? Seriously, what are they doing? Trying to influence all kinds of things. He talks about how they're trying to sway opinion in our businesses, the media, universities. I mean, it's pretty widespread. Six hundred organizations. That's a lot to keep track of. It is. And he also draws these really interesting parallels to the Soviet Union during the actual Cold War. He basically says that just like the Soviets used detente to kind of mask their true intentions, China is using all this friendly talk about harmonious business and engagement as a smokescreen. Ooh, I see where he's going with this. So it's all about appearing cooperative on the surface while secretly working to undermine the U.S. Exactly. And if you buy what Linskowski's saying, China's endgame isn't really partnership. It's something way bigger, way more ambitious. Which is? Well, he says their ultimate goal is global domination. Global domination. Wow. So not just a regional power, but like taking over the whole world. How does he see that happening? Through what he calls a system of tributary states. Basically, countries that are essentially subservient to China, both economically and politically, kind of like forced to follow their lead and give up a lot of their own autonomy. That's a pretty intense picture he's painting. But if that's the case, it makes you wonder, does the Chinese Communist Party even really represent the will of the Chinese people? That's a really good point. Linskowski definitely seems to think not. He really emphasizes the difference between the Chinese government and like the everyday people. Okay, so are you saying there's hope there? Like maybe there's a way to work with the people of China while still pushing back against the government's more aggressive moves? That's what he's suggesting. He says the U.S. should actually be looking for allies within China, not just treating the whole country like one big enemy. So a more nuanced approach, not just painting everything with a broad brush. I like that. Acknowledging the complexity of the situation. Right, exactly. Because this isn't a simple black and white situation. It's definitely more complicated than that. Okay, so Linskowski definitely lays out some pretty alarming stuff about China's ambitions. But the good news is he doesn't just like leave us hanging with this sense of dread. Right, right. In his opinion piece, he actually gives us a plan, a way for America to push back. And, you know, it's not all about military might. Okay, that's interesting. So what's he suggesting? He calls for something he calls an integrated national security strategy. Integrated national security strategy. What does that even mean? Basically, using all of America's strengths in a coordinated way. Like it's not just about the military, right? It's about combining that with diplomacy, economic influence, and even things like what he calls information warfare. I see. So like a multi-pronged approach, using all the tools in the toolbox, so to speak. Exactly. He even makes this great analogy to an orchestra. An orchestra? Yeah, he's saying that each instrument of national power needs to play its part, you know, harmoniously at the right time. But right now, he argues that the U.S. government is kind of like playing out of tune. Out of tune. Okay, I'm intrigued. What does he mean by that? Well, he's saying we're not using all our instruments effectively. We're not coordinated. It's like, you know, instead of a cohesive symphony, we're getting this cacophony of like disjointed efforts. Gotcha. So it's not just about what we do, but how we do it. Yeah. We need a more strategic, coordinated approach. Yeah. Across the entire government. Exactly. He calls out certain agencies, like the U.S. agency for global media. The one that oversees Voice of America. Yeah. He sees them playing a much bigger role in what he calls this ideological battle. It's about, you know, countering Chinese propaganda with like accurate and compelling information about America and its values. So fighting back with ideas, not just missiles. Right. And get this, he also has this really radical idea, creating a civilian equivalent of the Goldwater-Nichols Act. The Goldwater-Nichols Act. That's the one that like streamlined the U.S. military back in the 80s. Yeah, exactly. But why would we need that for civilians? Well, he thinks the entire U.S. government needs a serious overhaul if we're going to effectively counter China's influence. He wants to see a system where different agencies are actually working together seamlessly. You know, like sharing information, coordinating their efforts, breaking down those bureaucratic silos. Wow, that's a pretty big ask. A complete restructuring of the government. So it's not just about winning hearts and minds abroad. It's about getting our own house in order, too. Exactly. And speaking of winning hearts and minds, that's actually a huge part of his strategy. He calls it ideological warfare. Ideological warfare. Sounds intense. Basically, it means getting much better at like promoting American values and offering a compelling alternative to what China's pushing. That makes sense. If they're trying to export their authoritarian system, we need to be actively championing democracy and freedom. But how do we actually do that? Like what would that look like in practice? Well, Lenskowski talks about supporting democratic movements in other countries, countering Chinese propaganda, engaging in really robust public diplomacy. It's about showcasing the benefits of a free and open society. Not just talking about it, but like actually showing it through our actions. Yeah, I get it. Actions speak louder than words. And he actually throws out some pretty shocking statistics in this piece. He claims there are something like 25,000 Chinese intelligence collectors operating right here in the U.S. Whoa, 25,000. Seriously, how could there be that many? It does sound crazy, right? Whether or not that number is totally accurate, it does show you the sheer scale of China's intelligence operations. This isn't just some small-scale thing. It does kind of make me think, like are we being naive, underestimating what we're up against? Maybe. It highlights how this rivalry is about way more than just like trade disputes or military posturing. It's happening on so many different levels, even on the information front. Yeah, I get it. It's more like an invisible war happening right under our noses. It's a bit unnerving when you think about it. Thousands of people potentially working to gather intelligence and influence events right here on American soil. It's something out of a spy thriller, you know. But it's real. It definitely brings it home, doesn't it? This isn't just some far-off conflict we can ignore. It's happening here, and it affects all of us. And speaking of things happening here, this whole technology angle is a huge part of this too. Right. That's where the white paper from the National Defense Lab comes in, the one about AI, right? Yep, exactly. It's all about how artificial intelligence can be used, you know, not just in the military but in the government as a whole. So we're talking about more than just like killer robots and autonomous weapon systems. AI actually has a role to play in making our government work better. That's what they're saying. The white paper actually lays out how AI can help streamline government processes, like eliminate redundant programs, you know, save taxpayer dollars. So it's not just about national security but about efficiency too. Right. They even talk about using AI to identify and get rid of overlapping or outdated government programs. Imagine how much money that could save. Billions, maybe even trillions. Wow, that would be incredible. I mean, there's always so much talk about government waste and bureaucracy. Maybe AI could actually be part of the solution. Maybe. But, of course, it's not all about saving money and being efficient. There's the whole national security side of things too. Right, of course. So how do they see AI helping us counter, you know, the threats we've been talking about, the ones posed by China? Well, this is where it gets really interesting. The white paper talks about how AI can be used to enhance cybersecurity, protect our critical infrastructure, even anticipate potential threats before they happen. They even describe this, like, amazing AI-driven system called Project Athena. Project Athena? What is that? Sounds like something out of a movie. I know, right? But they actually describe it in some detail. They're envisioning Athena as the system that can analyze massive amounts of data and detect patterns, you know, things that humans might miss. Like an early warning system. Kind of. It could identify cyberattacks in real time, pinpoint vulnerabilities in, like, our power grid, maybe even predict acts of terrorism. It's pretty mind-blowing. Whoa, that's pretty intense. So we're talking about an AI that can actually see threats coming that we might not even be aware of. That's what they're suggesting. And it's not just about playing defense either. They also talk about using AI to, like, streamline defense procurement, enhance military intelligence analysis, improve emergency response times. It could revolutionize so many different areas. It's really amazing to think about. So much potential. I know. But, of course, there's always the other side of the coin, too. With any powerful technology, you've got to think about the risks, you know, the ethical considerations. Yeah, for sure. What if it falls into the wrong hands or makes decisions that, you know, we don't understand or agree with? Exactly. And the white paper actually acknowledges those risks. They emphasize how important it is to develop and deploy AI responsibly, make sure it's aligned with our values, operates transparently, and stays under human control. That's good to hear. It's a powerful tool, that's for sure. But like any tool, it can be used for good or for bad. It all depends on who's wielding it. It's almost like we're at this tipping point, right, this huge technological shift, and it's got these massive implications for how this whole U.S.-China thing plays out. Yeah, definitely. And I think that white paper really hits the nail on the head. It's not just about, like, some abstract tech competition. This is about national security, maybe even the future of democracy itself. The stakes are, well, they're pretty high. So let's just step back for a second, right? We've got this crazy multifaceted rivalry with China happening all over the world, ideological battles, espionage, a race for, like, tech dominance. It's kind of like watching a high-stakes chess match, but with, you know, real people and real consequences on the line. Yeah, and what's so fascinating about these sources, to me at least, is how they really show you just how complicated all this is. Like, there's no easy answers, no quick fixes. You really need to understand all the different pieces of the puzzle to even begin to, you know, figure out how to deal with it. We can't just, like, throw money at the problem or build more weapons and call it a day. Exactly. We need a more strategic approach, something that takes into account all these different challenges and how they, like, connect to each other. And that brings us back to what Lenzowski was saying, right? About that integrated national security strategy. We need, like, a whole-of-government approach. Right. Where every agency is actually on the same page, working together, using all of America's strengths, not just the military ones. Right. It's about understanding that ideas matter, that technology matters, that winning over hearts and minds actually matters. And recognizing that this isn't just, like, some battle between nations. It's a much bigger struggle for, like, global influence, even a clash of values, you know? And it really makes you think, like, if China's trying so hard to, you know, shape how Americans think, how our society works, are they succeeding? That's the question, isn't it? I mean, we've seen reports about them trying to influence our universities, businesses, even our elections. Right. It's a little creepy when you think about it. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. And whether or not it's actually working, well, that's up for debate. Yeah. But I think it definitely shows how important it is to, you know, be aware of this stuff, to be vigilant. Yeah, to be informed, to be engaged, and to, like, think critically, to question the information we're being fed, and to be aware of, you know, potential biases and agendas. Exactly. This isn't just a job for, like, the government or the intelligence agencies. I mean, we all have a role to play here. Yeah, as citizens in a democracy, we have a responsibility to be informed and to participate. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's why I think these sources are so important. They push us to think critically, to question our assumptions, and to, you know, have these tough conversations. This deep dive has definitely given me a lot to think about. This whole U.S.-China relationship, it's one of the most important and complex things happening in the world right now. No doubt about it. And understanding it is, well, it's essential if we want to, you know, navigate all the challenges of the 21st century. Well, folks, that's all the time we have for today, but we hope you found this exploration helpful. And we encourage you to keep digging, to keep learning. This is an evolving situation, and the more we understand about it, the better. And the better prepared we'll be to face whatever comes next. Thanks for joining us. This has been another episode of Deep Dive, brought to you by National Defense Lab. For more information about this topic and others, please visit our Deep Dive podcast page on NationalDefenseLab.com. Thank you for listening.