Podcast

Hello everyone, I'm Kimera. I'm Ari. I'm Natalia. And I'm Rachel. This is Wisdom in Action and today we are currently located in Haas with our special guest, Courtney Stephens. Hello, excited to be here. Courtney Stephens is the Associate Dean of Students at Middlebury College and is joining us today to explore wisdom within the workplace as someone who is very involved in faculty on our campus. We are delighted and grateful for our opportunity to experience and learn some wisdom that she has gathered and will share it with us today. We are aware that you are also responsible for the PPD curriculum and are the head director of conduct. Can you tell us more about what those jobs consist of? Absolutely. So I think with regards to the PPD curriculum, part of my job at the college is I also oversee the folks that work on orientation and first year and second year programs. And PPD is integrated into that, right? Because we want to make sure that what students are learning in the classroom is applicable to what they're going through their first year, right? So there's relevance. And so part of that is working closely with my team members that I supervise in that capacity. And then with regards to the curriculum, it's also really talking about student feedback and things that are like, hey, this would be really important. So that's a big piece of it. With student conduct, or like I like to call it changing life, is also we're an institute of higher learning. And so part of my job is when folks are allegedly violating that code to help educate on why it's a violation. But also then appropriately make sure that there is sanctioning. And that sounds really harsh. But I am very cognizant that when something takes place, harm can happen to more than one person. And part of my job is helping keep campus safe. So sometimes that looks like holding somebody accountable for their actions. But my goal, and all the folks that I work with that are also conduct hearing officers, is that if a student feels like they can't come back to your office after you have had a meeting with them, then you might not be doing your job correctly. I will say that does not mean a student is like, oh, you put me on probation, new best friend, right? Like sometimes there's not going to be that expectation or it's realistic. But the goal is for them to know that you made a mistake, but it does not define who you are as a person. Beautiful. So moving on to the authors. John Lewis and John Lederach are both authors we focus on throughout his semester. And something we've taken away from both of them is their practice of grace. More specifically, John Lederach is a facilitator of peace building among countries. And throughout his work, he develops the intricate interplay of compassion, empathy, and justice called the moral imagination. So we are aware that you're already familiar with Lederach's steps of the moral imagination, but just to recap them really quickly, these steps consist of noticing the problem, acknowledging the problem, questioning the problem, and then developing ideas on how to fix the problem, and finally taking action. In a particular work by Lederach called Conflict Transformation, he mentions that, quote, to speak well and to listen carefully is no easy task at times of high emotions and deep conflict, end quote. As someone who has interacted with you a lot, I noticed that you do have a skill for listening and you practice these steps of both the moral imagination and conflict transformation. So how would you say that in the height of emotions and in a difficult conflict, you listen carefully and make space for the creative act that leads to conflict resolution? Absolutely. Well, one, that's like one of the best compliments I've ever gotten, so thank you for saying that. I think for me, I think remembering that you are working, it's not with a student, it's not with just anybody, it's with a human that has very real feelings, that has very real impact. I think that that, I take that very, very seriously. I think, like I just said a couple minutes ago, when there is an issue, and maybe you're in my office for student conduct, often the question is not, well, you did this thing, it's talk to me about what happened. It's usually the first question I ask, what happened? Because I think at the end of the day, whether you're in here because you're in trouble, whether you're in here because you're in crisis, or whether you're in here because I have free fruit snacks for everybody and they come in, is that I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I helped one person that day. And for some people, they have no one there to listen to them. So if I can be that person for them, I consider that truly an honor. And I'm trusted with that, because I think it takes a lot to come in and be very vulnerable with someone, to say this is all the crap that I've been through, and that can be painful. And so I think for me, really making sure that I am acknowledging there is a person sitting in front of me that is someone's child, that is someone's sibling, that is someone's baby, someone's friend, and not just somebody that just happened to find my office, and to kind of have that connection. So I think it just comes from a place of also remembering that everybody deserves grace. And everyone has to work sometimes on building their own grit, and what that looks like. But I think compassion and grace will get us all a lot harder in life if we allow it. Does that answer your question? It actually does, and it's a beautiful segue into the next leader. Moreover, we previously mentioned John Lewis, a prominent American civil rights leader, politician, and advocate, who became a key figure in the struggle for civil rights in the American Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s. So I think what we love most about John Lewis is his act of grace and his work. He speaks a lot about loving people who are good to you, and seeing them as a child, and unsurprising, not their innocence, but their humanity, as you just said, as they make mistakes too. As he was describing his persistence not to be bounded by the mental shackles of hate and anger on his book, he mentions that, quote, forgiveness is medicine for the mind, balm for the body, and healing for the heart, end quote. In your job, we know you have to make choices on behalf of others, and we assume that forgiveness must be a prominent part of dealing with different types of situations, correct? So, we are also aware of the concept of having to know or remember the past to learn from it. So our next question to you is, what are some instances where you have seen in action or practice the act of forgiving and forgetting while learning from the past yourself, or with your line of job, having someone learn from their past? Okay, I thought we were getting this deep on a Friday afternoon. I think for me, to be very vulnerable with the four of you, I think sometimes when it's hard, and I think where I need to remember forgiveness, if it's something like, maybe I personally was the victim of, or something like I know my family has experienced, or my friends, and I think that I need to remember the person in front of me is not the kid who bullied me in third grade. Like, that therapy helps with that, and doing it, that's not that student's job to be therapeutic towards me in that aspect. I think for me, the ones where it really comes into play is I'm trained in restorative practices, and a key piece of that is acknowledging harm has happened. But you only engage in that if we are all on the same page that that harm has happened, and doing that. And so I think that is largely built, to a certain extent, on forgiveness, and I do that a lot. And in that role, I have worked with students that have known each other very well, and come together in conflict, and just need some guidance, or honestly, just some questions to start some of those hard conversations. I have worked with students who do not know each other at all. A major conflict happened, and they need to be able to exist on the same campus moving forward. And so I think for me, generally, I see that play out a lot in those moments, because I think often people see my job and think, okay, well, it's just when I'm in trouble that I come to you, when a lot of my job is conversations about preventative work, or trying to do that. But I think for me, do you want a specific, specific example in doing that? I mean, if you could think of a specific example or not, then generally. Yeah, I'm trying to think of one where I wouldn't be revealing any personal information. Yeah, and doing that, I think for me, I think one, this I'll say is a little bit lighter, but also serious, is we, a couple years ago, had students that were living off campus, and could not get out of their own way. Both times, they were in my office, out in town, police had been involved, right? So big deal, big deal. And they came in the first time, we had a great conversation, I was like, oh, I just changed four lives, this is a great day. And then three weeks later, they were back in my office, and I was like, I thought we made clear, I didn't want to see you again. And doing that, but I think through that, in my head, I was mad. I was like, I just spent all this other time with you. I had to process all of their reports. And then I think, too, it made me doubt myself, and made me doubt how effective I was. And I said that to them. And I think it was a moment for them to be like, this is so not about you. But I was like, that's part of the problem. You need to think about how you're impacting the community when you make some of these decisions. And so I think for me, in that moment, I was like, you can't take this personally. But also that same moment, I was like, but how can that be part of the learning for them? And then I didn't see them until they walked across the stage of graduation. And they were four really good students, for the record. But I think that was something where, for me, it wasn't about me. But they almost had to think that in order for them to get, like, there was an impact beyond them, if that makes sense. Another one that we've introduced was Trubin Shorter. He was a visionary who believes in the potential of healing and equity of the world through asset framing, which is the idea of defining people by their assets and aspirations instead of their deficits. A famous quote by him is, quote, you can't lift people up by putting them down, end quote. But as humans, this is easier said than done, as we tend to define others by their mistakes. As someone who works in conduct, you have a brief description of the situation before meeting a student, correct? Do you mean, like, a report? Yes. What exactly is the process there? Can you talk about any times you utilize the form of asset framing? Yeah, absolutely. So what I love is that we actually just added this into the PPD curriculum this fall. So that podcast, that project was referenced. So I felt really special right now. And wonderful that people are replying. Clearly from other classes, I'm not just going to pretend like that's me. But I think for me, so the process, anytime something has happened, is whoever the college official is on scene will write a report. A college official could be an RA. A college official could be an HRL professional staff member. Could be a campus safety officer. So really, there's kind of a range. There might be one report. Sometimes there might be two. If there's an RA report and a campus safety report, because they both were on scene together. From there, they write their perspective. They are trained very closely that reports are to be objective, not subjective. So we'll say to them, and also that kind of, that can help us with bias. Being like, no, what was said? Not what did you feel they were feeling? What did they say? What came out of their mouth? You know, I think that has kind of helped us be able to shape and tell that story. From there, that report will go to myself. And then also, depending on the nature of the report, it also will go to Ashley Sardic. And she's the Assistant Dean of Students and Director of Housing and Residence Life. And then often, her and I will look at these reports and assess a few things. One, what follow-up is needed? Is this, because it's not always bad stuff, right? A report could be that a student needed to talk to a counselor at 2 o'clock in the morning. So are we making sure that they're connected with the right people on campus the next day? A report could be that somebody tore a water fountain off the hallway in a residence hall. Not that that has ever happened. Right? Well, what facilities work needs to be done? And then, probably the most frequent is, there might be an alleged violation of the Student Code of Conduct somewhere in here. But her and I will assess to see, one, do we have enough information to base that off of? If not, we will launch an investigation, which sounds so much scarier than it actually is. We have a wonderful investigator, and a lot of her questions are, what happened? From your perspective, what went through that? Because my mom always says, and she's listening, Dottie Moore, I love you. She always says, there's three sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth. Right? And so there's always going to be different perspectives. And so from there, they'll give their thoughts and processes. But that's not all the time. So that's why I mentioned we'll look to see if there are alleged violations. We typically, if there are witnesses, we'll wait to do that to kind of get more perspective. And then from there, we'll go through, okay, do we think that there's any code violations? And then from there, if we do, we assess, okay, so does that go to a disciplinary conference, which is a one-on-one that's a staff administrator with the student? Or does this go to a hearing board, which is a faculty chair, a staff member, and three students? The biggest difference is that at a hearing board level, you could be suspended or expelled. Disciplinary conferences are more low-level offenses. So that's something where, and then from there, that they go through that meeting. And if they're found responsible, they get their sanctions. But hopefully through that, in a little part, we'll be able to get more information. I don't like thinking of conduct as transactional. It's not like, well, you did something, slap on the wrist, go, but rather transformational. Okay, so how do we work on that this is not what's defining you? Let this be the one mistake, and then we move on, and we change lives, and we have a great experience. So does that answer your question, Rachel? Is it fair to say that asset framing is built into these type of curriculums? Thank you for that prompt. Yes, in doing that, yeah. And I think it really is that last piece, right, that I will often say to the students, so the first couple minutes is just relationship building. Why'd you pick Millenburg, right? Do you have any siblings? Or like truly trying to get to know them, and then talking them through, talk to me what happened, and then taking that first part of the meeting, and saying, so you talked to me that you want to be a doctor because you want to help people, right? So this action, tell me what you can learn from it so next time, you're looking at it more from a helping standpoint. And that's so, like, powerful, because if you, I'm speaking from my perspective. If I was in a setting, and I was to come here, and that voice would just jump straight to the point, right, my guard is going to be up. So I think that is super important, the way that you care to be familiar, or not just, like, jump into the problem. And I quote, problem. And I think that's part of it too, right, in that moment, saying, like, this doesn't define you, because sometimes it is harmful. Sometimes what is taking place is completely unacceptable. That's why there are punitive sanctions, right? We do a lot of educational, but that's why there's punitive, especially if there is a victim, right? I take those to heart in doing that. And for me, that's something, but saying, what can we learn from this? Right, if we call home, depending on what the outcome is, the student is on that call with me, and usually the first couple minutes, I'm talking to them about what I've learned about their student in the first couple minutes. Because, like, you can have a conduct record a mile long and still be a great person. How do we focus on the great person part so that we cut off the record at a mile, right, in doing that? So I think, no, I think acid framing, I think maybe I do to a fault sometimes, because I'm trying to, like, lift the student up to be, like, don't let this define you. But I think that that's my moment to remind them, like, you've got this. Because I always say, I'm not, in this draft of the paperwork, I'm not going to cure cancer. I do not have that background. I had a student once that was developing a phone app to help his brother with autism communicate, which I thought was, like, amazing. But I do firmly believe that a student that does some of those things, I'm going to interact with. And if I'm the person that's reminding them that they've got this, and that they're going to go places, I'm very okay with that being my place in the world. So that's why I love working in higher ed. That's a lovely way to continue to, like, my idea of, like, you know, when you're in college, you're, like, in, that's a stage of your life, you know. And so, you know, you go through different stages in your life. And, like, how do you apply the knowledge of that, like, you know, we are in a different stage of life than you are. And how do you apply that knowledge of, like, the different stages of life, and the different levels of wisdom in each stage to, like, your work? Absolutely. I was called old two weeks ago. And so, there's still crassness in there. And they're suspended. No, I'm kidding, I'm totally kidding, I'm totally kidding. Right, there you go, there you go. No, I think for me, I think part of it comes from, and I think what that student meant is that they said, I needed somebody to tell me that. I needed to hear it from someone old. And so then I was, like, I need you to reframe that sentence. And they were, like, I needed somebody that was wiser. And in my head, I'm, like, cool, 20 years older. And doing that to say, like, it's okay that I made this mistake. Because it's okay that this is not going to define me. Right, in doing that. I think it also goes back to the human part, that I at no point have had a year without a mistake. Right, and so I think coming in, remembering, like, I'm not perfect. And if you get preachy, then you teach poorly. Right, in doing that. And I had a very impactful moment that I think honestly has shaped how I approach age and wisdom. With a colleague at a prior institution, where a student came in, they had already been in trouble, and had met with a different conduct hearing officer, and then came and met with me for the second offense. And, you know, we wrapped up at the end, and they just said, I just want to say thank you. And I said, well, what are you thanking me for? No, seriously, like, what are you thanking me for? Did I say something I shouldn't have? Did I offer you water that I don't remember doing? And he said, no, but you listened. And I was, like, great, but that's my job. And he's, like, I don't know if I could say that to every person I've met with. And that's not, like, an ego boost. I think I'm, you know, top notch or anything like that. But it was this moment where I was, like, who is anybody to judge the other person? Especially when you don't know their perspective. Like, for me, don't assume a thing. Because a report could look like, yep, no questions asked, like, this is what happened. And you talk to the student, and you're, like, son of a bee sting, like, the whole thing. And that's critical to our work. So I think, for me, it's remembering that we're all human, right, and the steps there. I think taking what I've learned, and I will own, like, there are lessons that I wish people had told me earlier in life. And one of my favorite quotes that I said to a student about two years ago who was interviewing for a job, and she said, oh, I'm just too much, because she got really excited and said, I know what that's like. And she was, like, oh, I just know I'm too much. And I said, I wish somebody had told me when I was 18, this is not my quote, but you can pretend like I said it, is that you will be too much for some people, but those are not your people, right? So lean into who you are. And so, and if you look around my office, which I know the podcast can't see, it is motivational quotes up, down, all around. And I get, because to me, like, maybe you read something, and it hits. I have a frame over there, which, again, those in the podcast can't see. And it's a little boy on the beach saying, yes, you can do it. And the most powerful piece about that card is when somebody else with wisdom didn't know that they were influencing me. And every day when I was at grad school at the University of Michigan, I took this one path to my internship. And every day, because I was overwhelmed every day, and I saw it, and I was like, whew, I got this. The last day of my internship, I had never told anybody that story. And it was that card, and the last day, my friend handed me, and I opened the card, and it has stuck with me. And I have that up there, right there, next to where students can see it, because maybe that's going to be somebody's moment. So my wisdom comes from sitcoms. My wisdom, right, comes from movies and different quotes, and I think for me, like, that's how I show that. And I also really try hard to relate to students without trying to make it look like I'm trying too hard. I've tried saying, like, quotes from Taylor Swift. Like, it hurts, but I'm acknowledging it. But I think remembering, like, I was there, and even though I might not have taken some of the same routes the student is taking, at some point, have I ever risen above that person, if that makes sense? So it's been really cool. I love that. Well, that was it for today's episode. Cardi, thank you so much for your time and coming to speak with us today. Thank you so much for your wisdom. You really gave us some good insight on what it's like to be wise in the workplace. Thank you. Oh, I'm honored to have been asked. Thank you. And so thank you all so much for listening to this episode of Wisdom in Action, and I hope that Bean Stevens has free fruit snacks in her office. Okay. Bye. Sorry. You say bye, too. On the count of three, say bye. One, two, three. Bye. Okay. Thanks. Definitely will start playing soon.