Prof-Immerwahr

The main ideas from this conversation are about the concept of the logo map, which refers to the idea that the United States is not actually a contiguous space but includes overseas territories. The discussion also touches on how Northwestern University treats students from US territories as domestic students and the implications of this for their experiences and identities. The conversation raises questions about the role of borders and imperialism in the relationship between the US and its territories. The speaker suggests that Northwestern's treatment of these students reflects a larger imperial policy of the country. There is also a mention of the student recruitment process and the difficulty in finding data on the number of students from specific territories. All right, so just to start off, so I read some of your book, How to Hide an Empire, and I really like the concept of the logo map, especially if it's like, yeah, like visually, like that is what people think of when they think of the United States. And so how would you, like say, like for this article, how would you summarize the idea, like the concept of the logo map? Not very differently from how you would summarize it. I think when people envision the United States, they imagine a contiguous space, bounded by the oceans on East and West, and Canada in the North, and Mexico in the South. And that shape that most people imagine is actually, or that shape corresponds to the actual borders of the United States for only three years of its history, 1854, 1857. And the reason is that for the majority of its history, the United States has not been in a contiguous shape, but has included places that we call overseas, some uninhabited, but many inhabited. And still today, it has five inhabited territories, with between three and four million people living there. Right on. And how do you think that the, like, the borders that we think of when we think of the United States, how do you think that this plays a role in how Northwestern situates its students coming from U.S. territories? I have no information about how Northwestern situates its students coming from U.S. territories. So, yeah, so just, like I said, from what I know, like, they treat them as, like, domestic students. So even though coming from, like, overseas and with different languages and different cultures, they're coming here and treated as though they are, they have the same experience just as their parents from, like, from, like, within the States. Do you have any comments on that? Just to say that that has been a perpetual question that sort of haunted U.S. territory is whether the quote-unquote overseas parts or the parts outside the mainland are fundamentally part of the United States or not. And that's both a question for people in power to answer, but it's also a question for people in the overseas territories themselves to answer. And, I mean, honestly, I can see it both ways. Like, I can see why it helps to affirm something real, which is that if you're coming from Guam, you are not immigrating. You are a part of the United States. I can also see why it might be helpful to acknowledge the other thing that's real, which is that Guam is a different kind of part of the United States than Wyoming is. Right on. And do you, how do you think that this sort of experience perpetuates, like, the history of, like, imperialism, like the United States has, or this history that they have with these U.S. territories? Like, for an example is how these students are under the jurisdiction of, like, the United States and not their own, the jurisdiction of, like, their homeland and their government there. I mean, it seems just a sort of purely bureaucratic reflection of the fact that the U.S. flag flies in all these places. I mean, Northwestern is legally correct in treating people from American Samoa, I don't know if there are students here from American Samoa, but it would be legally correct to treat them as from the United States as U.S. nationals. So, I mean, I don't think this is Northwestern making imperial policy on its own. I think it's just reflecting a larger imperial policy of the country. Right on. And yeah, so, like, American Samoans, like, when, in their, the way they do, what's it called, like, orientation, not before this, like, recruitment, like, when they have, like, people interested in, like, their, in this school, they have, like, the regional people who, like, go through, like, each different regions of the U.S. And so, if in that they have, like, for example, the Southwest, so that's going to have, like, states like New Mexico, Arizona, that also, like, I believe that region consists of, like, also applies to, like, Puerto Rico. Okay. Southwest? Yeah. So, or it's, like, it was one of the regions, like, I know Puerto Rico's, like, not in the Southwest. Yeah. But one of the regions, like, like, how the way that they divide the regions for, like, domestic students. So every part of the U.S. territory is included in one of the regions. Yes, exactly. Okay. Yeah, I probably got the next one. But yeah, let's go through the, right, like, the student recruitment process. Do you have any, like, thoughts or ideas on, like, how the current orientation process or student experience process for students in your territories? Like, do you have any, like, thoughts or ideas on how, like, the university should, like, treat these students going forward? No, I haven't talked to any students about their experience with this process. All right. Is there anything you would like to add about this? Sorry? Is there anything you wish I asked? No. You don't have any idea of anyone I could talk to about this? I presume you're talking to students? I'm trying to. It's hard to. It seems like a basis for this. Yes. And also, like, you, like, a professor in faculty, like, wrote this book that, as well, so, like, contributes to, like, a part of this experience as well. Yeah. So that's, like, why I was interested in talking to you about this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that since this is about student experience and student identity, that would be the center. Yeah. Good luck. Have you – I'm not sure that Northwestern has – well, I'm not sure how many students Northwestern has from the Pacific territories. I talked to one student a couple years ago from the CMMI, but I don't know if that's – do we have more students from there now? Is that something you know? I'm sorry? Is that something I know? Like, do we have students from the CMMI? Coming off of North Mariana Islands or Guam or somewhere? I don't know exactly because I haven't been able to find, like, data pertaining to, like, specifically where the students are from. I am going to be talking to someone from the U.S. Virgin Islands. Okay. Okay. And I've been trying to get people from Puerto Rico since that seems more attainable to find, like, students from that region. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Thank you. Just, like, last, like, contact stuff. Okay. So how would you like your title to be addressed? You mean to say I teach history at Northwestern? Like a professor of history? Sure. Okay. And just a contact for, like, fax checking? Sure. Just my email address. Okay. Which is my name at Northwestern. Okay.