Podcast Episode

This podcast episode features an interview with Deb Miller, an older adult, about the importance of family and close relationships. Deb talks about her experiences as the oldest of seven siblings and a mother of five, emphasizing the importance of compromise and support within a family. The ABCX model of family stress and coping and the exchange theory are discussed in relation to Deb's experiences. Deb also talks about the importance of doing your own thing in a marriage while also compromising, and shares examples of how she and her husband have balanced costs and rewards. Deb and her husband used authoritative parenting, being firm with rules but also responsive and nurturing with their children. Overall, Deb emphasizes the importance of picking your battles, taking time to think and discuss major conflicts, and prioritizing what is really important in family relationships. Hey everybody! Thanks for tuning in today to hear about the results of our interviews with Deb Miller for our Family Relationships class taught by Melinda Hines at the University of Northern Iowa. On our episode today, we are going to be talking about the importance of family from the perspective of our older adult, Deb Miller. From the process of getting to know Deb and learning about her life, Deb has reinforced our views on family and how close relationships within a family are extremely important. Deb is currently 70 years old and is the oldest of seven siblings. She was married at 19 years old and later had five children of her own. Today, Deb is still very active and involved in her children's and family's lives. She has expressed to us numerous times how close her family is and how this closeness drives a successful relationship in her family. In this podcast, we'll talk about a few family theories and how they connect to Deb's experiences. We'll also touch on a few other topics such as step-family, work-life, and religion as it pertains to Deb's family, and of course, we will hear a lot from Deb herself. Being the oldest of seven children, as well as being a mother of five, Deb has encountered stressors and a need for compromise, especially when navigating parenthood. While talking to Deb about her experiences, we discovered a connection between her experiences and the ABCX family theory as well as the exchange theory. The ABCX model of family theories is the model of family stress and coping, perceptions of the stressor, resources used, and the likelihood of a crisis occurring. Now, we'll hear from Deb on certain stressors in her life, specifically relating to picking your battles. You know, I just think we're more supportive of each other in our wants and needs now than we probably were when we were younger. You know, you learn to be a little less selfish, I think, and the more time goes on, the more you realize what's really important. And, like, him having his motorcycle, you know, and now it's cars. He likes to hit cars, which drives me nuts. But it's like, that's his thing, you know? Yeah, yeah. I put up less fight each time, because I know he's going to do it. Yeah, exactly. But like, he had a Corvette for a while, and now he's got a Camaro. Got rid of the Corvette as the Camaro. And I told him from the get-go I was never going to drive the Corvette. I never did. And it isn't my cup of tea, you know? He likes it. That's fine. That's just not what I like. Right. The only thing I did say to him, and it went for the Camaro, too, was if you ever drive really fast, you know, like above 75, I'm talking. Because he will tell you he takes it out on the road and goes 90, 110 miles an hour. And I'm like, if you ever do that with me in the car, I'll never put foot in it again. Yeah. And he knows I mean it. Yeah. So he doesn't do it. So I think we're that way with each other now, you know? When we know when that threshold is on anything with each other, we just don't want to do it. Yeah. You know, no matter what the situation is. We know when something really matters to the other person where we're drawing the line, and we just respect that. That is, you know, if he wants to go out and drive at 110 miles an hour, I can't stop him. Yeah. I say, is your insurance up to date? Make sure you have that. You know, but that's a small sample of what I'm trying to say. Right. You know what's important to the other one, and that's what you do. Yeah, definitely. I would say as we're older, it's gotten easier. You know, we're fortunate in so far no real major health issues. That's going to be the next tough time of our life when those things start happening. And, you know, I've watched, of course, my parents and his parents go through it and stuff, and that's a hard time. You know, when you begin to lose some of your freedoms and, you know, how do you make the adjustments and still support and stuff. We'll just see what happens. Yeah. As well as Deb using this model in her everyday life, the exchange theory is also present and is used quite often in Deb's life. Deb has encountered various instances of balancing costs and rewards. According to Deb, this theory seems to be very prevalent in her marriage, especially when both people want something different. In the next two clips, we'll hear from Deb the importance of doing your own thing in a marriage, but also compromising to do what needs to be done. If things allow me, I shouldn't use those terms. He's okay with me doing the things that I want to do. And I am the same with him. There's things that interest him that don't interest me, so it's like go and do it. We don't have to be together every minute of the day. You know, I have traveled to Europe a couple times by myself. We went once. I wasn't by myself. I was with a group, but he wasn't alone. And then Italy we did together and Alaska we did together. But he likes, well, he did like motorcycles. He knew I didn't. I did when I was young, but after I had children, it was like I didn't want anything to do with them anymore. And so, you know, he would go off, you know, riding day trips by himself or with a friend, and that was fine. You know, allowing each other to do what interests them was a big thing. So that's helped, you know, for both of us. Then we can enjoy our time together. When it's something we both enjoy, we'll do that. And, you know, that worked out good for us. It's not an easy thing to do, but it was a way to make some extra cash to help. At that point, we were sending them to private schools, which price then was nothing like it is today. But it helped to pay for that. And I didn't go to work. Well, truthfully, I've never worked full time in my life. So I've been blessed. He's been employed by Dears. The only time I worked full time in the 80s, we had all four boys, and Dears went on strike for six months. So I worked at Penny's, and I worked at the Country Club during that time. And, you know, again, that's something you do in marriage. You do what needs to be done. And any of the jobs I took over the years, I took to help the family in the best way I could for whatever reasons, you know, whatever was going on. But I tried to keep the kids' schedules first and foremost and then try to work a job around that. This next example demonstrates how Deb communicated and compromised with her husband about something very important to both of them. When we had conflict, you know, most of the conflicts were really fairly minor, you know, just day-to-day arguments about things that you're always going to have. The one big one I remember is his grandmother had a farm that he always said he wanted to live on the homestead. And we're talking a farmhouse that was built in the 1890s. And she eventually, you know, I never worried about it because it wasn't going to happen. And then she ended up having to go into a nursing home, and the family wanted it to stay in the family. It was a century farm. And he wanted to buy it. And there was literally plaster falling off the walls. Couldn't plug in a microwave because the wiring was so old. The refrigerator was in the dining room because the kitchen was too small. And the only bathroom in the house was originally a closet, so you can imagine. I just had three kids. Two oldest kids were gone at this point, so I just had the three at home. So, yeah, there were many a battle over moving out there. Plus, I didn't want to move out to the country, you know, and be driving the kids into town and sports practice and everything else. So, and there were some real battles over it. And over a period of two or three months, you know, we just went back and forth and stuff. And finally, we did end up moving out there. But he also started a business on the side, which is what helped pay to fix it up because it was bad. Reservations are expensive. Yes, yes, yes. It was very – I don't think he has a clue how much he spent on it over the years. Yeah. Because every year there was something big to do. So, you know, just the give and take and taking time, you know, to really think things through for both of us, I guess is what I'd say. You know, especially if it's a conflict that's long-term, a major conflict, as opposed to the day-to-day stuff, you know. The day-to-day things, you know, we'd yell, we'd scream, whatever, the next day we'd move on. And I guess, you know, it's obviously worked. We've been together for a few years now. So – and I've always gone by, in the marriage as well as with the kids, pick your battles, what's really important. You know, bottom line, he was a good father, he was a good husband, this was a dream, you know. And it ended up working out very well. I mean, I love the place. And now my daughter lives there. So we've kind of downsized and moved to a brand-new house, a little bit different from one that's over 100 years old. But I guess that'd be my two big things. You know, the day-to-day, pick your battles. Is it really worth getting upset about or carrying on about? And the major things, you know, don't think you need to settle it in a couple of days. Give it time. Think about it. Try to discuss without getting too angry. And then move on from there. Deb and her husband subscribed to authoritative parenting, where she and her husband were firm with the rules but were responsive, supportive, and nurturing with their kids, using discussions and reasoning to explain their rules, listening to their children's viewpoints to make sure they feel heard, but not necessarily accepting that view every time. Yeah, with the kids, you know, it was more as they got older. Our fourth son, the first three were pretty good about following guidelines on time to be home. You know, curfews and stuff. And this was after he had graduated from high school, and it gets a little tougher once they're out of school and then still living under your roof because he did not go to college. And he started staying out later and later and later, and sometimes he'd call. This was before our cell phones, too, or at least before we had one. You know, sometimes all night. And I threatened him. I said, you know, I'm going to kick you out of the house. And one night he called me about 3 in the morning, and he said, you know, I'm going to stay at so-and-so's. And I said, don't come home. You know, I just had to put the foot down, and it was not easy. It ended up working out. You know, he got a job and a place to live, and he never did move back home. And, you know, I take that back. He did a couple years later. He was back for about six months. But did a much better job at that point of, you know, because my big thing was if you're going to be late, just call me and tell me, you know, after high school and stuff. Just don't let me lay awake all night wondering where you're at, especially living in the country. I didn't mind. I was worried about him being in a ditch or a car wreck or whatever, you know. A few times I hopped in my car in the middle of the night to go searching. But then I'd get home and find the car there. Call your mom before 3 a.m. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But he just needed that, I think. He needed me to just say, that's it, I'm done. And, you know, I said after that it wasn't an issue. Now that they have a 14-year-old and the girls are, what, nine and five, his day's coming. So he'll understand more pretty soon. Then you'll get a call with an apology. Huh? Then you'll get a call with an apology like, I'm sorry I stayed out so late and didn't call on you. Right, right. Or, Mom, you stayed out too late. Oh, yeah? I wonder what that's like. Yeah, it's called paybacks, my dear. You know, it was frustrating because basically all of them were pretty good. We didn't really have a lot of major issues. The oldest, when he was 15, did get picked up for drinking. And, yeah, we had a long, long relationship. And he was a good guy. The oldest, when he was 15, did get picked up for drinking. And, yeah, we had a long lecture that night and a grounding and stuff. But later on, when he was an adult, he said, you know, Mom, I never drank again in high school. And, you know, which I never was sure. But he said, I learned. Well, that's good. If you learn, you know, that's what I always tell my kids. If everybody makes mistakes, you just hope it's not life-altering and that you learn from them. And, you know, because they all know some people that they made a life-altering mistake. And that, you know, literally changed their whole lives. And so then witnessing it, and I would remind them of that sometimes, that, you know, you just got to be very careful, make good choices. You know, I think, as a whole, we were pretty lucky with our kids. They were pretty well-grounded. And family was tight. I mean, a lot of our relaxation time was with their cousins, aunts and uncles, you know, just getting together and hanging out. So whether that helped or not, I don't know. I'd like to think it did. Next, we will touch on the topic of stepfamily and divorce. While never having been separated herself, Deb has been impacted by divorce and new additions to the family. Her oldest son is recently divorced with two kids. Relationships with the children's mother have been strained, but are all doing their best for the well-being of their children. Recently, he has met a woman with two kids of her own. There is a lot to handle with navigating parental and familial roles in this new blended family. My oldest son went through a divorce about eight years ago. And in my immediate family, that's the first one. I've had a couple of cousins that have been divorced. My mom has a couple of siblings that have been divorced. And, of course, when my aunts and uncles did it, you know, I was a young child. I didn't see the ramifications. And I do believe sometimes it's necessary. But it's heartbreaking and it's gut-wrenching. And I really hope I never have to witness it again, especially with children involved. It's very, very hard. And the kids have come through it. They're good. One girl is married. One granddaughter is married. And one is working full-time, and the third one is in college, and the youngest is a junior. They've all come through it. But those first two, three, four years were really, really hard. And, you know, fortunately, it finally got to the point that the parents could be civil to each other. The early years, his wife was less than kind. And she was the one that instigated the whole divorce and everything else. But he was broke, really broke for a long time, living with friends, which made it hard for him to have the kids when it was his time to have them and stuff. But he finally healed from it, and he got married this past fall, and everything is good. But it's just really, really hard. And that's what, you know, I think a lot of people, when they're married and when they run into that first big bump in the road or whatever, sometimes they're too quick to call for a divorce. She had been having an affair, and for nine months he fought to stay that marriage and caught her himself multiple times. And I remember one phone call. He said, my friends all say I'm crazy for taking her back. But he says, I really want to try to make this work. And I told him, I said, you've got to do what you've got to do. And I said, if it ends up in a divorce, you will know in your heart that you did everything you could rather than thinking what if. And it finally got to the point he knew, you know, he had done what he could. And, you know, I think he's glad that he took that time and tried. You know, at least I hope he is. But I said, these days he's much happier. She's a wonderful woman, and the kids have all done well with it. The one thing I really liked was both of them. She had two kids that are now in eighth grade and ninth grade, so they're just younger than his youngest. And they were seeing each other for about six or eight months before they even let the kids meet, and then it was like a Dairy Queen. They just happened to be there. And a lot of the things were just going for walks and bike rides and stuff. And I think they, because they did it so slowly, you know, and kept those kids in mind at all times. And that really helped both families adjust. And the kids get along fantastic, you know. And I know her daughter, when she did first meet my son, you know, she hated him, didn't want anything to do with him. Of course, you know, she sees somebody moving in on dad. And it took some time, but she warmed to him and she adores him now. And that's what I'd recommend. So often you see families with divorce that, you know, one or the other of them may quickly, or even a year or two later, start seeing somebody, and then they bring them in and introduce them right away, and then that's over in six months. And then a year later, here's another one. And that's just not healthy for the kids. So, you know, I couldn't have been happier with the way they handled with the kids, just taking their time, and I think that's important. But I still don't recommend divorce. It was a lot of heartache. And, of course, he was a single-parent family. And because the business he was in at the time, it's a commission. And the year before the divorce, he had made his most money ever, and he had made some really good money. So the child support was based on that, even though. And they said, you know, basically when he found out about it for the first four months, he said, I was either in bed or online studying affairs. So he didn't work much, didn't make much, and then I'm just told that they lost it. You know, like my daughter today is the tester for COVID, the flu, every time I come home from work, try to get homework done, supper, ready for bed, you don't have any fun time, especially if they're young, to just relax and enjoy. And I have nothing but admiration for anybody that can do it. It is not easy. It is tough. And I remember that when my kids were little, even though I wasn't working outside the home, I couldn't wait some days for him to get home. It didn't matter if he did anything with them or not, just having another adult in the house. My son, my youngest son does have a stepson, and we adore him. He was five, I think, when they started, yeah, he's five, when they started seeing each other and stuff. You know, just kind of, I'd say he grew up into our hearts. And he's just the nicest kid. And it's a mess. She had been engaged to the guy, he hit her, she left him. Found out she was pregnant afterwards. And several years ago, we met him when he was five, and then when he was about seven, I think it was, they were at an apple orchard in Nashua, and there's a gun range not terribly far from there. And some people were being stupid, and he got hit with a bullet. And, yeah, it's quite the story. But they were sitting in a wagon, and at this point, they had a child to get, so my granddaughter was in the wagon with him. She was one, and he was, like I said, she was one or two, and he was about seven. And they were getting ready to leave. The other grandparents were with them, and an aunt and uncle. And Caden is his name. He jumped up, and he goes, ow, ow, you know. And he's grabbing himself, and they thought maybe a bee sting or something, and pulled up his shirt, and they could see a little bit of blood in the front. And then when they looked on his back, the blood was spurting, and when they lifted the shirt, the shell fell into the wagon. Oh, my God. And that's when my son yelled, you know, he'd been shot. Anyway, he called us. I don't know if they were waiting. I think the ambulance was there when he called. He is screaming so loud, I can't understand a word he's saying. You know, the only reason I knew it was him was because his name came up on my phone. We finally got him to settle down enough, and he said, Caden's been shot. You know, and anyway, we all ended up down in Iowa City, and he went into surgery, and it was like midnight, he came out. They said we could go in in twos to visit him and to keep it short. And, of course, his mom and my son went in first. His birth dad didn't come with his mother. And anyway, so those two went in first, and then her parents went in because she lived with them for the first three or four years that Caden was alive, and so, you know, he was very close to them. So they went in. When they came out, they knew we were going to come home since everything had gone good, and they said, Why don't you go in next? So my husband and I went in. And when Caden came out, his birth father and his mother were there waiting, and she made a comment about, you know, real grandparents should get to come in first. And I bit my tongue and walked away. Because what I wanted to say to her was I had already been more of a grandmother two years to that child than she'd ever been. And his dad rarely saw him. And, in fact, shortly before this happened, he had called and said Caden couldn't come stay with him very much anymore because he'd moved into a trailer with his girlfriend and her three kids. Yeah, and now all of a sudden he wants to be daddy. And that whole relationship is gone. I don't know the last time he's seen his birth dad. But he's called my son dad since he was probably six years old. And I remember when they first started dating and I first met him, I said to my son, I said, You better be careful here. Because I said, This little boy is already attaching to you, and he doesn't need to have another loss in his life. I mean, it's been incredible to watch the relationship grow. I mean, they are father-son in every sense of the word. So it can be done. And I said, My oldest son is stepfather to two kids. And he talked about that recently, about having to be careful where he is at. What does he pick? Because he says, You know, I'm not their dad in their eighth and ninth grade. So he said, I try to be careful, but I do. And his son and his stepson had been in the backyard golfing and tearing up divots in the grass. He said, That time I said something. He said it comes down to the law. So, you know, that's one thing that can be tricky, because those kids do have a relationship with their father. They see him quite often. He lives just a couple blocks away. So, you know, both families are completely different. Because the other one came to ask, like I said, I know he hasn't seen him in at least the last two years, not for Christmas or anything. And whenever I get my grandkids for Christmas is what they get. And, you know, the two that just joined the family this year were really surprised. I'm like, I'm not going to treat them any different than I treat my other ones. I mean, you're part of the family now. And I think that's important that they feel that. Because these kids, too, when they first came here, you know, they have, I don't know on their dad's side of the family. I don't think it's very big, but I don't know how many cousins for sure. On their mom's, they have two cousins. She has one brother. And then they come into our house and we're at 26. By the time you count the marriages and the grandkids, their cousins are significant in others. So it's a big group, you know. And Christmas, they spend the night when they come. So it's a lot of together time. And they were both like, yeah, we can't wait to come back. You know, both of us. And like we play a card game, you know. And we've got this table stretched out and there's like 20 of us around and playing cards. And they were just so into it and having so much fun. And, you know, so we're lucky. It's nice to have them feel that comfortable. You know, the children are never the one that causes the problem. And, you know, it's important to me that they know that we care about them. That, you know, we love them just as much as if they had been born to us. Yeah. Unfortunately, though. In the interviews with Deb, she expressed multiple times that it's extremely important to spend time with your kids, especially when they're very young. For Deb, this often meant working part-time, jumping from job to job, or working multiple smaller jobs at once in order to prioritize time at home. The next example demonstrates how Deb was able to work multiple jobs over the years in order to prioritize staying at home with the children. I didn't work. I stayed home most of the time. There, again, it was a little easier to do that then than it is now. I did work. You know, I worked off and on. You know, I was home most of the time. When my first one was six months old, that Christmas season, you know, we didn't have a lot because I wasn't working at the time. And, you know, we were making ends meet and stuff, but I used to work at the Delft's Club here in town when I was in high school. My aunt was the head cook, so she called one day, and I was working that night. And I hadn't worked there for a while when we were married, but they had a gal that was serving drinks in the dining room. I don't remember. She broke her arm or her leg or something at Christmas time. So she called my mom first and asked if she'd babysit for me while I worked. Because my mother had a strict rule. I raised my kids, you raise yours. She wasn't going to be the babysitter. And I think my aunt knew that's what she called her first. Because my husband was working second shift, and this would have been second shift. So anyway, I served drinks that first Christmas season we were married. You know, it was probably less than six weeks' time that I worked. But it was interesting because I was never a drinker. So when they were giving me these drink orders, I had no clue what they were talking about most of the time. I was trying to make sure they got the right one back that they ordered. So I worked for a few months then, and then I did not work again. I'm trying to think. I worked at Sears over the Christmas season, probably after the birth of my second child, just to make extra money for Christmas. And then I didn't work again for a while. And then went to Penny's to work at Christmas season. Did that a couple Christmases in a row. That was after the third child. And then I ended up taking a regular job there, but I only worked nights and weekends so that we wouldn't have to have a babysitter. And, you know, that worked out good for us. It's not an easy thing to do, but it was a way to make some extra cash to help. At that point, we were sending them to private schools, which the price then was nothing like it is today. But it helped to pay for that. And I didn't go to work. Well, truthfully, I've never worked full-time in my life. So I've been blessed. He's been employed by Dears. The only time I worked full-time in the 80s, we had all four boys, and Dears went on strike for six months. So I worked at Penny's, and I worked at the Country Club during that time. And, you know, again, that's something you do in marriage. You do what needs to be done. And any of the jobs I took over the years, I took to help the family in the best way I could for whatever reasons, you know, whatever was going on. But I tried to keep the kids' schedules first and foremost and then try to work a job around that. The biggest drawback as I've gotten older is not having been there a lot for the boys, for their homework and stuff like that. But it was rare that I missed any of their events, you know, whether it was a game or whatever. They had, you know, a show at school or whatever. That was always a top priority, no matter what. Deb's faith has a large impact on her life, and she draws a lot of her ideas from her faith and from God. In the next clip, Deb expresses the importance of her faith and trust in God and how it plays a large role in her marriage and family life. That commitment and that belief is what gets you through, you know, some of those rough times that you just, you know, this was the choice you made, and you prayed and you worked hard at it, and, you know, we celebrated 51 years in January. So whatever we were doing, it must have worked. That's amazing. To wrap up our thoughts here today, Deb has taught us ways to navigate family life as you get older and as your family grows. Through family theories and parenting styles, we can see how life once was compared to how it is now and make our own decisions based on the great advice that she has given us. We were poor, but we didn't know it. You know, we were happy. We were together. We did things together. Life was just different, and I think that's kind of the way I've taken it, that I'd rather, I don't care if my house has all the pretty things, and, you know, I like them, but I don't need them. And to me, it was just more important to be with the kids, and I don't regret that part of it at all. Deb has also shown us that life is not always easy or a straight path and that many factors go into making relationships meaningful, especially within a family. The good and the struggles have made Deb's family stronger and closer together, which is why Deb expresses that family is the most important thing in life.