The Other Darren is Dead

Jeff and the speaker discuss the concept of people groups, including atheists, agnostics, and non-believers. The speaker shares their personal journey from atheism to becoming a born-again believer. They discuss the value assigned to things and how it has shifted from drawing attention to oneself to drawing people towards faith. The speaker emphasizes the importance of believers reaching out to atheists and not assuming they are too far gone. They talk about the joy and stability that comes from having faith in God and the power of the Holy Spirit. The conversation ends with a reminder to nourish the spirit and give it away daily. DARREN: Jeff you and I ran the lobby and we were talking about and discussing a few things because I used to be an atheist and I think you looked at me and you said? JEFF: Well, we were discussing people groups and I had to go to the dictionary wanted to make sure that my understanding of people groups was In concert with the way I was using it in our discussion, and I think I can clearly with confidence say that atheists are a people group and then we talked about Agnostics are they a people group talked about non-believers, are they a people group and actually I think there are three distinct people groups because each group is is defined by a certain belief or lack thereof, and then I asked you about whether or not you were vehement I guess in vociferous your leaf is a is an atheist and And and you basically said you relished the ability to get in front of someone when you were challenged and you went after Absolutely with all the vivid vigor that you had within you and you catalog those experiences And I just remember holding my left hand and right hand up as if they were a balance Scale because I'm trying to figure Darren is an atheist. I don't know that Darren. I only know Darren is the born-again. I believe when you tell me you were an atheist. I just don't know that Darren I only know the Darren that's born again. So, as a matter of fact, the other Darren is dead. DARREN: Amen Yeah, I remember so that's true. And I don't even remember in a sense. I don't remember the old Darren either. I'd go a little bit further It's not a place I fondly go back and recollect memories from. Like I remember I used to tell stories about when I was a non-believer. I’d tell these stories with so much vigor and excitement, and it was always the best part of the night if I was at an event with a bunch of people to tell stories about all these crazy activities, and nowadays I can't go back there anymore with joy or happiness They're just dead to me now those stories. They don't make sense. They don't add value to people. That's not what gets me up in the morning anymore. JEFF: Well, you're able to do that because you were redeemed. In your case It was from atheism to being born again, for other people It might be a bad relationship, a marital relationship perhaps, and there was a lot of pain associated with that. Today those people have been redeemed in those things by the Lord. One of the things that the Lord does is He doesn't really take away those memories but those memories are in a filing cabinet as you said, and It's not that you've hidden from them or that they've been hidden from you. They just don't drive you anymore. DARREN: Right! That's true. JEFF: I think pastor Steve Robinson said it best years ago He said that emotions should be indicators and not dictators. DARREN: Wow, that's really really powerful. I think to look back as a non-believer and now as a believer I used to assign value to things and I think we still do it today. What do you think about this concept? It is just coming to mind right now about assigning value to things? So for example as a non-believer I would assign value to things that would draw people's interest really towards me, and now I assign value towards things that draw people towards the Lord and faith. Don't you think that the stories we tell, that really we're assigning value to attract people to look in one direction or another. JEFF: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, I'm glad that you've drawn that contrast because it's exactly true. What you were, what you used to be is inwardly focused, now, you're outwardly focused. You were called by the Lord Jesus Christ and He came to serve and not be served, and so what's happened to you is you're much like the caterpillar that cocoons itself and then the metamorphosis occurs and when it breaks out of it, it's a butterfly. Was the caterpillar not beautiful? No! The caterpillar is something that God created for a reason. You're not a caterpillar. Yet, you've had this metamorphosis. You have become what God always intended you to be right. In our last conversation I believe we talked about, I don't really think there's such a thing as an atheist because in Scripture God says that he created eternity in the hearts of all men. That was in you before, but had you not had enough people put themselves in front of you to talk about Jesus Christ, or God the Lord, or the Holy Spirit, who knows when you would have actually become born again. You know George Barnett the Christian demographer says that on average people are witnessed to 43 times before they receive the Lord. With you, I think you were probably a hard case. I'm sure it was more than 43 times with you! By the way, we put the laughter track in the audio now! DARREN: Yeah, exactly For me, it was like this, It was like I was looking at an I-beam. You ever see those guys in New York on the I-beam building those skyscrapers? And the guy is just sitting on the I-beam and he's eating his sandwiches. I was the guy that walked all the way to the end of the I-beam; I had heard about Jesus and about faith and all these things and I was stiff-arming it so much. I was right at the end of the I-beam hanging on by my pinky toe with all my might, and I think that's a reflection of a lot of people a lot of non-believers. They're hanging on, and I think as believers we can actually start to identify that in a lot of non-believers, that they're really not that far, they're really not that far for falling for Christ. They're really not that far! What do you think about believers who look at an atheist and think, well, they're so far from God's truth that it's pointless even trying to speak to them about the Lord? JEFF: That's a sad thought. I would hope those of us who call ourselves Believers would understand that scripture tells us that we're supposed to be prepared to give an account for the hope that we have inside of us. DARREN: Right. JEFF: And if you're that believer that says oh this person's lost I'm not even going to go talk to them, how do you know, other than through your own strength and your own knowledge and understanding, that that person wouldn’t turn you away? There's a chance that that person may turn you away but there's also a chance that you might be the person that's been appointed on that day, called to that person that day. You talked about joy and happiness. As a born-again believer today you have a lot of joy that you never experienced before. Your happiness is event driven but joy is relationship driven. If you've got joy and a gratitude that I talked about in our first interview, that comes from the Lord, joy comes from the Lord. The knowledge and understanding of who he is, the lordship that you have for him provides the joy which enables you to persevere in all kinds of situations. DARREN: Right. JEFF: You know, you persevered through cancer. DARREN: I did. JEFF: Can you imagine having to do that again today if you didn't know the Lord? You can't even imagine that can you? DARREN: No! I can't imagine it at all. As I look back and I look at the major stark differences between being a person now of faith and a non-believer, And I am saying this for all those people out there that might be reading this right now that are close to making a decision for Christ. The main difference is this, I no longer live in fear, I no longer live unstable, and I don't have any hatred for anybody. But there is an instability that comes with not having faith, and I think it's because the reliance becomes solely on you! A non-believer might say well, how can just believing in God give you stability? Well, the answer is because God's real, and there's this inherent thing that happens when you believe and all of a sudden you're infused with the Holy Spirit, and maybe you can share a little bit more on that, but you become alive, more capable, and actually you're connected directly to the mechanism that God created to begin with. JEFF: Amen. Absolutely. Jesus told His disciples that he was going to leave them. They were having difficulty understanding that. They walked with him every day for 3 years. They didn't really understand him They were imbued with the Holy Spirit and he told them at one point to go into Jerusalem and wait. The power that he had inside him, he was going to give to them, but they were to wait for it and when they did you can see the effects of that all through the book of Acts; How that Holy Spirit driven person, persons, took Christianity throughout the known world back then and it still happens today. I can't imagine not having that power inside of us. The world would say power, and they define power differently. They define power in a very secular sense. What we're talking about supersedes that. We are spiritual animals first We just happen to live in an earth suit. DARREN: I love how you phrase that. Spiritual animals. JEFF: We are, that's how we were created. That's why Paul says in the New Testament that when we die, we're immediately with the Lord, and it's not a physical body, it's not the body that you see in me or I see in you sitting across the table from one another, it's a spirit that lives within us, and that spirit needs to be nourished just like anything else. And so, that spirit, if we're giving out of that spirit daily, we have to recognize that we need a fresh in-filling on a daily basis. And that's the way it should work because if we're not giving it out, there's no reason to fill us up again. I think that this is a gift that's not meant to be kept It's a gift that's meant to be given away on a daily basis, and if we're giving it away on a daily basis He's gladly refilling our cup with the power of His spirit day by day. DARREN: You can't even give it away unless you have it to begin with, correct? So, there are really a lot of people walking around right now depleted. They're depleted. They don't even realize what that depletion is. JEFF: Absolutely. Absolutely When they don't realize it, that they're fraught with all kinds of issues, you know, they're fraught with financial issues Relational issues job related issues, but it's interesting because through all those issues There's a common thread and there's a spiritual issue that it weaves its way through all of those issues And there's only one Prescription for that only one because nothing in the secular world is going to solve for any length of time the problems of Relations problems of money problems of health. The only thing that's going to resolve those problems is the Holy Spirit, right? That power that resides in those of us who've received him who've received the baptism of the Holy Spirit Amen to an atheist or someone that's a non-believer. They're on the fence. It's really hard to believe Number one, there's a God but more than that that there's something out there that if you believe in it It will inject itself into you, right? I'm thinking of a turkey right now being basted with the finest of butter, right? But there's there's a lot of garlic a lot of South Louisiana. Yeah, exactly But there's this injection that can come into us when we believe in when we have faith in God He injects us with the Holy Spirit But how do you get that message across to someone who's a non-believer like what would be a good way to phrase that you know I'm not sure how to answer that. I can only tell you what I do. The Holy Spirit draws Does that mean I can't draw I can draw caricatures, but that's not kind of drawing I'm talking about I'm talking about having something attracted to you again back to George Barney He says that people have to be witnessed to at least 43 times before they receive the Lord This is what I do every day before I leave the house One of my prayers is that the Lord will put somebody in my path and I can be a Christian witness to now What does that mean? Well, I want to be attractive to people. I want to be liked by people. I'm human If people are attracted to me and I'm likable I've got a common bond with them But what I'm really looking for is there's something beyond that that natural attraction that you see It's the attraction of the Holy Spirit, right? And so I want them to like me because I have something to say to them and when I have something to say to them I'm naturally going to lead them into discussion about the Lord I'm asking God each day to put somebody like that in my path and I want to say to you that you should never pray That prayer if you're afraid that God's going to answer it because he's absolutely going to answer it because it's a prayer according to his will and so what will happen is Oftentimes he'll put someone in front of me It might be somebody across from me at a gas pump pumping gas into their vehicle We make eye contact and Lord will say this one Jeff and I'll look at him and I'll smile and say how you doing Oh, it's a beautiful day. Isn't it Darren? Not really. Yeah. I know I know Are you okay, Darren? I'm doing fine, I guess well Darren at that point I know they're not fine because God sent them to me. That's why they're not fine And I'll say well, no, you're not what's burdening you today? So as an atheist you often look at a believer Someone that's really evangelizing to you and you might think oh, they just want to get me in the club. Yes That was one of the yes. Yes, but that was one of the biggest flaws as an atheist that didn't land good on my ears because I think looking back there needed to be more talk about Eternity and less talk about the value of what it could do for us in this life Because I already had what I thought I needed in this life So an alternative to what I already had was really fruitless to my mind But something that I'd never considered was eternity was something that no one really ever spoke to me about It was only when I saw that person lying there without a breath in his body because he just passed away That I knew that eternity was real and that was the real carrot that pulled me in Any thoughts on that? All I can say is is that you had a call on your life and you didn't really even know she had a call But in the context of what I was just saying and you said you would like to have heard somebody speak eternity to you I get around to doing that But what I do is, you know If I start talking about the Bible to you across from the pump that's going to raise your ire if you're an atheist I'm assuming that's what school I'm gonna put in the the nozzle thing and probably high tail out Yeah, you're gonna do that But but what I know is that God has sent you to me at that point, right? And so what's happened is no matter what's going on in your life. One of the things that you don't have is peace I'm talking about the peace that transcends all understanding What I'll do is I'll do something that's said to me in the book of Revelation It says that we overcome by the blood of the Lamb. That's Jesus Christ and a word of our testimony And You're you're intelligent. So and I find most people who are atheists are intelligent. That is very true Yeah, and and so what they want to do is argue the written word in the Bible in the 66 books of the Bible Well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you a personal testimony I actually happened to me and I used the book of Philippians the fourth chapter verses 4 through 9 and I tell people I turn that into a personal prayer for me and I tell them that the physical response that happened in me and the physical response that Happened in me was that the Holy Spirit it came in like gangbusters and drove out all the fear all of the pain and Replaced it with peace. Well, these people can never argue with that because that's what happened to me. It's very real Wow, and and so I'm telling them about that and I use those scripture verses and I'm gonna paraphrase I'm not going to use it King James Version. I'm gonna use the JW. I love the King James Version I'm sure you do but I'm gonna use the JW version, which is Jeff Whiteway. Oh It starts out by saying let your gentleness be evident to all you know, I want them to see the gentleness I don't want the hair on the back of the neck raised. I don't want them to be in a defensive posture And so that's a command I tell them but then I'm I'm teaching them scripture But I've teach it in the first person and what that really says to me when I read it is Jeff Well, let your gentleness be evident to all and then he says Jeff rejoice in the Lord and he must really want me to understand that because he repeats himself He says Jeff always rejoice in the Lord. I'll say it again rejoice in the Lord And so I say to myself in my in my feeble mindedness. Well, you don't mean rejoice now things aren't good Why should I rejoice now if things are not good? He's not saying only rejoice when things are good He's saying rejoice when things are not good and then he goes on to say in that scripture He says Jeff don't be anxious about anything So I could be saying to you if you were that across from that at that gas pump I can see say Darren don't be anxious about anything and you're gonna say well, I want to be anxious This is this is a situation you can't even imagine and I'm saying well there these aren't my words He's this words of the Lord. He's commanding you not to be anxious about anything But then he goes on to say it's another command in everything by prayer In other words such we have discussion with him and petition. That's where you ask him, but he says with Thanksgiving So in prayer Darren with petition Darren and with Thanksgiving Darren In other words, don't come to me and talk to me and petition me without saying thanks Well, he says then Darren present your request to me and here's here's the key If you do Darren the peace of God which transcends all understanding will protect your hearts in Christ Jesus Hey, man, Darren I have never had anybody push me away at a gas pump in a store at work And the reason I have it is because of that prayer that I prayed about putting somebody in my path It really what I was asking him to do you can read about I think it's in the 10th chapter of Luke It's the person of peace where the disciples have been sent out two by two and they're told, you know, don't bring tunics Don't bring sandals. Don't bring money just go into a house He says if there's peace in the house stay if there's no peace Shake the sand off of your feet right and move along Well, and that may be really difficult now to walk away from somebody because you want to evangelize everybody But in sales, there's a saying that there are suspects and there are prospects If that peace isn't there with someone they're not a prospect They're a suspect move on to the next person because time is fleeting We need to talk to as many people as we can until we take our last breath Amen as an atheist at the gas pump because that's where we meet all atheists There's after listening to you. I'd be thinking to myself. Wow. This guy has an unfair advantage Then the preventer from taking the next step as an atheist is often this I don't think I'll be accepted into the club He has this unfair advantage He's obviously been doing this for a long time. Let's pretend I'm 55 years old at the gas pump talking to you I'm like, well, I just got to kick the can for another 20 years I think I'll take a pass and get back to the things I'm doing but I could respect you for your unfair advantage What might get me to the to the next level as an atheist? I'm a questioner. So I'm gonna be asking lots of questions Hopefully I'd be asking more questions and you would be because I'm trying to understand what makes you tick I'm trying to understand where's the chink in your armor. Were you hurt by your father? Were you hurt by your mother? We heard by bullies at school We heard by your first love What is it that it's created this chasm between you and God something's created it and once I figure that out I'm gonna start building something for you because one of the things that you're missing is true Love you've had true lust in your life. Have you ever had true love Darren you do now? I do put that gas pump. You probably hadn't probably know everything was transactional It was transactional you'd love something as long as it was there when you needed it when you wanted it at the time You wanted it, but it never lasted did it? And so Darren, did you have peace when you're an atheist none none? When did you recognize you didn't have peace? When my brother-in-law asked me as I was lying in bed dying of cancer and he said to me Darren Can I pray for you your brother-in-law Donald? Yeah, and I said No, I'm good, and he said I just want you to have peace when he said that I searched in my memory bank For something that I could attach that word to from the past memory and it stuck to nothing Did that scare you did you feel empty? It worried me greatly it did did you begin to see your mortality for the first time? I've been seeing it for a long time at that point, but yes, that was definitely something I felt like I wouldn't mind tasting so there there was a year I mean it had been created and the reason that yearning had Been created is because God at that point had prepared your heart You didn't know that but he had prepared your heart and Donald was the pizza delivery man at that point He was destined at that point in time to say the words to you was gonna change your destiny It did not only did he change it, but when I became a believer Literally the first thing that came upon me was peace of course he says my peace. I give you my peace. I leave you In other words. He wasn't just gonna give it to you. He was gonna leave it with you It was gonna be come part of your clothing each and every day think about that It's 19 degrees out this morning And you came here you didn't come here with a t-shirt on you came here with appropriate clothing and that Appropriate clothing kept you warm the piece that we're talking about is a warmth. It's an internal warmth Wow It's an internal comfort so to the inside of me. It gets sewn in me before even I'm born. I'm spiritual I'm a spirit absolutely so am I just reseeing it because the world has covered it over am I now? Realizing that I had peace all along. I just wasn't looking in the right place for it It was available to you at all times, but you're right You weren't looking you were looking at it for it in a billion table You were looking forward next pretty girl that you met right you were looking for the next sale You made but all those things are temporary I can see that pain that struggle the emptiness that hurt just that destruction not just to you But to your family members. I can see just a life underutilized and underlived the atheist Jeff They just don't know that's part of who they are right now And it's like that's the most important thing to me is to find a way to allow these people to see if they could close their eyes just for a fleeting second and then just imagine in five seconds the world is a believer and Then strap that notion that vision to their existing life Jeff. They their eyes would be opened immediately and So what can we say to someone who might be listening to this right now that might find themselves in that place of emptiness? Is there something they can do what if an atheist was to pray to God? What do you think might happen? Well if they're sincere about it I know it's gonna happen at that point if they're sincere about it's because they've been drawn Holy Spirit's drawn them right if they pray God's gonna answer that prayer. It's absolutely gonna answer that prayer He did it for you. You didn't know that you didn't know that was gonna happen But that's exactly what happened right you may not have spoken the word Verbally for Donald to hear but the Lord heard Donald told you what he told you in that hospital room And did you did you speak to Lord that day? I didn't when I sold the dead body about a year and a half later Did you speak it out loud it was all happening internally inside my mind? Yeah, and so as an atheist you would have thought oh nobody can hear me as a born-again believer You now know that he heard you had the Holy Spirit not prompted you at that point in time I wouldn't even know you today You wouldn't be looked up to by friends and employees and clients like you are today Because you're a different person than you were this is a phenomenal phenomenal story It's one to celebrate and it's one to Remember that God has put the power in you He's put the power in me and the question is what are we going to do with that power? Are we gonna set it on the shelf like that signal lantern? I gave you this morning right which looks great on the shelf Yes So for people to look at are we going to use it to illuminate? God told us he's a light into our path and a lamp into our feet We're to be the same thing We're to illuminate the path for the very next person and I believe that you will be a powerful tool in the hands of a mighty God because you've been called you haven't said this but you've been called to tell people about Jesus Christ Amen, you've got a desire the people group called atheists Yeah, and and so my prayer today is is I know that God's empowered you I just thank him for the next atheist He's gonna put in your path when he puts him in your path He doesn't stand a chance and you're not gonna beat them up. You're gonna fill them with God's love Amen, and when you do that and they accept that they'll find peace that they've never here to for understood Wow, let me pray that right right quick here right quick. You like that. That's my Louisiana Yeah, I was coming out with your British accent. That doesn't seem just trying to sew up the loose ends. I got you But Heavenly Father Lord, we're just so grateful for this conversation. So grateful for Jeff joining me this morning in this studio Just to talk about you Lord and to find out ways and means in which we might address people There are non-believers in that people group and Lord today. We just ask that you send people Our way, yes, even even more people Lord even Lord let it overflow that so many people come to this place and come to us even at gas stations, Lord I haven't had the gas station moment yet Lord But I pray right now that you would send someone to me Lord at the gas station as we're filling up again That that would be fine Lord as I'm refueling Lord Refuel me so I may refuel somebody else with the good news of the gospel Lord ask that you bless Jeff and bless all the people that happen to be listening to this right now in Jesus name. Amen. Amen