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Join me in welcoming Tricia Timm back to the show. In this episode, we explore her career trajectory, a journey that was not without its challenges. Tricia shares her wisdom, expertise, and experiences, including the hurdles she overcame as she transitioned from a Senior leader role to an advisor and board member.
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Join me in welcoming Tricia Timm back to the show. In this episode, we explore her career trajectory, a journey that was not without its challenges. Tricia shares her wisdom, expertise, and experiences, including the hurdles she overcame as she transitioned from a Senior leader role to an advisor and board member.
Listen to E20 Women Ascending in Leadership: From Sr. Leader to Board Member by Laura Perez Ehrheart MP3 song. E20 Women Ascending in Leadership: From Sr. Leader to Board Member song from Laura Perez Ehrheart is available on Audio.com. The duration of song is 42:34. This high-quality MP3 track has 912.511 kbps bitrate and was uploaded on 11 Apr 2024. Stream and download E20 Women Ascending in Leadership: From Sr. Leader to Board Member by Laura Perez Ehrheart for free on Audio.com – your ultimate destination for MP3 music.
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Tricia Tim, a board member of CellSupply, a SaaS software company, discusses her career journey and the sale of Looker to Google. She explains the differences between being a senior leader and a board member, emphasizing the role of a board member as an advisor and guide. Tricia also shares her insights on organizational strategy and decision-making in a global context, highlighting the importance of understanding different regulations, cultural differences, and the need for revenue growth and expense management. Welcome to CoachNomics Presents Podcast, a part of the ECS Network. This is the Masters of Leadership Teachable Nomics Series. I'm your host, Laura Perez-Ehrhardt. I'm the CEO of Epiphany Consulting Solutions, a management consultant and executive coach. I want to welcome back my guest, Tricia Tim, who currently serves on the board of directors of CellSupply, a top SaaS software company. She sits on the audit committee and is the chair of the compensation committee. Tricia is also the first generation Latina who rose to the ranks of Silicon Valley, advising high-tech companies, big and small. Also culminating in the sale of data analytics software company, Looker, to Google for a whopping $2.6 billion. Throughout Tricia's 25-year career, she has sat in boardrooms at both public and private companies and has helped scale companies internationally. Tricia, welcome back to the show. It's great to have you back. Thank you, Laura. I'm excited to be here today. Yeah, this is going to be an outstanding conversation, specifically because of your growth trajectory, your career path, and you have a fantastic career journey. I want you to talk about that, specifically how you ascended to a senior leader role, member of the C-suite, and you were very instrumental in selling the former company, Looker, and eventually you moved on, moved into a board member role. Talk about that journey. Yes, it's been a fascinating journey, and I feel very blessed. So I started my career off in Silicon Valley as a corporate associate at a very large national law firm. I got an incredible foundation there working with companies of all sizes and worked in M&A transactions, IPOs, venture financings, and this was in the mid-'90s, and it was whopping. It was busy, so I got an incredible amount of experience, and then spent most of my career from there as an in-house lawyer and ascended, as you would, in that capacity. And for me, many corporate lawyers, securities lawyers, we want to eventually get to the general counsel spot. And so I just kept kind of going up the chain, if you will, from corporate counsel, senior corporate counsel, associate general counsel, up into general counsel. I had been in a couple of roles as general counsel prior to Looker, and I would say with every role, you learn something. And I was at a company during the dot-com bust, and I learned an incredible amount from that experience. I was also at a company that was a competitor to Salesforce, and we didn't win, obviously. And so learning from those experiences really, I think, culminated in my ability to come to Looker with a lot of experience and a lot of wisdom. And yeah, I joined the company when they were growing and scaling and looking to become a public company. And as we were on the road to an IPO, we had this opportunity to sell to Google and, yeah, we led that transaction in combination or in partnership with our CEO and CFO. And it was a very complex transaction. You know, negotiate against Google is no easy feat. So it was complex in terms of the, you know, the agreements that we had to negotiate, employment arrangements, you know, the integration. And it was very complex because we were a global company and the regulators really scrutinized anything that Google does. And so as a result, we were really looked at from a global antitrust perspective. And so we had to go through several rounds of reviews with the Department of Justice. And so had to go, I flew out to Washington, D.C. and met with the Department of Justice. We had to get approval from the Competitive Markets Authority in the U.K. and in Australia and really leading the company through all of those legal reviews, contracts, and then ultimately the integration of the two companies. Yeah, it was it was an incredible experience. Just so listeners know, who may not know about Looker, Looker is a software platform, is that correct? Yes. It's a data analytics software program. It's an enterprise company, a SaaS business. So they were bought by Google Cloud and it's integrated now into the Google Cloud offering. That would be quite the complex journey and learning lessons along the way, I'm sure. As someone who has experienced being on both sides of the fence, what are some key differences between being a senior leader reporting to a board and being a board member with senior leadership reporting to you? There are very different roles. When you are a senior leader within an organization, you are responsible for the day-to-day operations. You're responsible for creating the vision, the strategy, the operating plan and executing against that plan. As a board member, you're ultimately, your duty is owed to the shareholders. You have the responsibility of maximizing the value of the business. And so that in practice is really means hiring and firing the CEO and really helping guide the strategic vision and the operating budget for the company. And so they're very different roles. And there's a phrase that I love, which I think summarizes the difference, which is as a board member, the phrase goes, nose in, fingers out, meaning that we are there to provide advice and guidance, ask insightful questions and follow up and overall oversight as a board member. But our fingers are out. We stay out of the management of the business. So we really aren't the ones that are going to make the day-to-day decisions on who to hire, what the business decisions are going to make. That's really ultimately up to the CEO and the management team. That makes perfect sense. So what I'm hearing, I like that. I like that phrase, nose in, fingers out. So nose in, know what's going on in the business, right? Definitely. But fingers out, you as a board, you stay out of the day-to-day operations of the organization. Let those senior leaders of that C-suite make those decisions. They're in the day-to-day operations and they and their people know best, right? Yes. And that's, yeah, it's great. And it's actually hard as a first-time board member when you come straight from an operating role to transition into the nose in, fingers out, because you're so accustomed to making those business decisions and wanting to say, hey, I know the answer, it's X. But that's not really your role. Your role is to really just be there as an advisor and a guide and ask questions so that the management team can think about, you know, they have the most information about the business and can make those decisions. Your message and your mastery in this area is really going to help the listeners who are first-time board members, right? They're making that leap. And so this is a really good conversation. And for them to take this advice and feedback based on your experience, but also it's kind of a refresher for those that have been on serving a board. There's always new things to learn, right, Trish? I learn so much every day. And I think that's actually the fun part about all of this. Absolutely. We continue to evolve. Yes. Let's talk, and I like where this is going, so let's talk about your personal outlook and your professional outlook. How is your perspective on organizational strategy and decision-making, how has it evolved since transitioning to becoming a board member, or has it? Yeah, I mean, just sort of, you know, double-clicking on what we just talked about, which was really having to transition to, you know, moving out of that operator role and really into that advisor role. And so that has been a big transition. And so, for example, when I first joined my current board, they had just acquired a company in France. And my first reaction was, oh, no, let's not expand in France, because I've had so much experience with the complications of the employment laws in France. They're tough. They're hard, you know, they're hard to navigate as a global company. And but so I had to sort of resist that and just say, okay, well, here are some tips. Now that we're here, here are things to think about. But at the end of the day, the board wants to see you, you know, meet the top line, seeing revenue growth and manage the bottom line, making sure we're managing expenses. And if you're doing that, then the day-to-day decisions are not going to be scrutinized, you know, because most boards will be happy with seeing those metrics come in. Yeah, you just made a really good point that someone in a new board role needs to consider as they're diving into an organization that's looking to go more global. What else would someone looking to, for more overseas partnerships want to look for? There are different regulations around data privacy in the EU. The data privacy laws are also more stringent than they are here. Employment law, as we mentioned, you know, the way equity is handled in other countries are different in the way they're taxed. Taxation is different in different countries. Export laws and how you're exporting software in and out will require a number of different compliance measures. You know, the list goes on. I think what happens is if, you know, you've only operated in the U.S., you forget, we kind of become a little bit U.S.-centric, right? We think that the way we operate here is the way, you know, things operate globally. But they're very different. And the other thing I will say is cultural differences. You know, just as business leaders, when we go and visit and talk to employees and customers of different countries, we need to understand their, you know, the traditions and how we interact in our language and our behavior because it might be different. And so, I mean, I think there's just a lot of awareness of understanding what it is to be a global company. Absolutely. And I think one of the significant areas that you're talking about is when we look to go global, it's, yes, understanding the different cultures that we might be engaging with. That can make or break a deal, right, Trish? Oh, absolutely. I had done some negotiations in Germany and actually it wasn't until we flew over there, sat in a room and had a conversation face-to-face that we actually made progress. It was really tough to do it remotely. And so, some of those in-person relationships and negotiations matter. Since we're talking about collaborating and relationships, so let's talk about collaboration between the board and senior leadership, which is crucial for business success, for any business success. Can you discuss how you foster open communication and alignment between the two groups? Yeah, so when I started on my board that I sit on right now, I decided I wanted to have regular meetings with members of management. Fortunate that the CEO was very open to that. You know, not all CEOs are, you know, sometimes you want to keep that relationship pretty tight with them. But my CEO was very open to me having regular meetings. And so I meet on a monthly basis with our chief legal officer, our chief people officer, a CEO and the CFO. That has been instrumental because over time, I've just developed a personal relationship with each of them. We know about each other, our families. As a result, we've created a relationship of trust and transparency. And so when there are tough moments or tough decisions to be made, we already have, we already know each other. We already have that relationship to be able to talk about things in a very honest way. I think, you know, relationship building and meeting with senior members of management is very important. And one of the other benefits of meeting regularly is we might not have, sometimes we don't have many things on the agenda and then something comes up about an issue they might be dealing with at the moment. And so then I just can become a sounding board or someone else to bounce an idea off of or even just, you know, an ear to vent. You know, the office of the CEO and CFO tend to be lonely. There's not a lot of people that they can talk to about things. It's been great. I'm curious, what encouraged you to take that position, to make that request? Well, with my first board, I am just by nature a very curious learner, like I want to learn. And so the only way I know to learn is just to dive in. I just I dive in and I research and I read and I meet with people. And it was important for me to get to know them, learn from them, learn about the business. I think it started with me more learning about the business and then I just kept them going. It's just really I think it was one of the smartest things I did. You have become a trusted advisor to them because that takes a lot of trust and very seldom, just from my experience, it's very seldom that a board will reach out to have to develop that kind of relationship and rapport with the C-suite and you are right. I deal with and I have a client who they're evolving. They're growing very, very quickly. They're going through some pain points right now. That C-suite, it can be very lonely. As a senior consultant to them, it's easy for me and like you, Trish, I have a very curious nature, but I'm very personable and I like to get to know people. I like to develop rapport as quickly as possible, develop that trust where people can feel like they have a sounding board, they have a trusted advisor, they know that they don't have all the answers. They put their egos aside and they're willing to reach out and make themselves vulnerable. I may be in a C-suite, but I don't have the answers. To be able to lend an ear is really important for them because it really does help to have that sounding board of, am I overstepping? Am I overthinking this? Am I thinking through this correctly? Not only does it foster and build rapport and that important, meaningful relationship, but it helps these people clear the clutter out of their head to make really good, sound decisions. And no decision is perfect, right, Trish? Right. Yeah. And I would say all of what you said, 100% agree. But I would also say know who you are as a board member. And I think for me, I'm an introvert. I'm very, you know, I walk into meetings and I listen. I'm a listener. I think. I need information. I need data. And so, you know, when you're sitting on a board, and now most of these meetings are remote, my company is in Boston, so we do most of our meetings remotely, showing up once a quarter for a two or three hour meeting. There's not a lot of opportunity to really engage in long conversations because we're just listening to a lot of material. Those meetings happen so quickly. And there's a lot of people that are extroverts. And when you're an extrovert, you're a talker. You know, you're talking, you're bringing your opinions. And so it gets dominated by a lot of loud voices. And for those of us that are introverts and are thinkers, we tend to stay quieter. I imagine if I only showed up at, you know, a meeting once a quarter and said nothing, it would be hard for me to get my thoughts out there to the board as a group. I think it would be harder, you know, for me to create a relationship with each of the, you know, C-suite and the board members. So I often, in addition, also meet with the board members, other board members outside of those board meetings as well. So I can also develop relationships with them. Yeah, I think that's really important. So which leads to my next question is, you know, the kind of approaches that you specifically use to employ and to maintain balance, for example, provide oversight and helping to empower those senior leaders to make important decisions or informed decisions? Yeah, because I have those regular meetings with them, I think I serve more as a mentor. So, you know, they now come to those meetings with their list of questions. All right. We're about to do X. Have you seen this before? What do you think? Do you have any templates? Do you have any introductions? Do you know someone who's done it before? And so what I try to do is say yes or no, whether I've seen it before, if I have or dealt with it. You know, some of the things that went well, some of the things I would avoid. I try to make introductions or connections when I can, especially if I don't have the answer. You know, I usually know somebody who's an expert in that field and I'll make an introduction so that they can, you know, talk with them. And everybody wants the company to do well. And so how can I empower this leader to be the best self in that role? And what tools and what advice can I give them? Wow, excellent. When you were at Looker back in the day, what strategies did you employ to effectively communicate with and present to the board of directors? How did you ensure such alignment between the board's strategic vision and the day to day operations at Looker? Yeah, I worked closely with our CFO and I worked closely together with the, you know, putting the board decks together, ensuring that we got all the information out. One of the things that I learned early on in my career, I worked for this amazing CFO who ultimately became the CFO of Adobe, his name is Mark Garrett. And he had this finance reporting deck that he had put together. And it was just this deck that had so much data information around the business. And so that deck is, you know, repeated probably a million times over by a lot of people now in the Valley. And so just, you know, making sure that we were providing the operating data and information so that the board members were aware, so that there were no surprises. And that went from all the financial metrics to other parts of the organization. So the marketing, how are we doing on marketing? How are we doing the product organization? How are we doing the recruiting? And then I, as a general counsel, provided a legal update. How are we doing in terms of if there were any litigation or claims outstanding or patent issues in that portfolio and any other matters that might be, that we might be facing. So I just ensured that we were providing enough information to the board that they had a good sense of how the company was doing. Yeah, really good thing is to provide those resources and tools, as you stated earlier, to the C-suite as the company continues to expand and grow. Board dynamics can vary significantly. And from personal experience, it can be really challenging, but it can also be rewarding. So Trish, talk about how you navigate the different personalities within the boardroom to drive consensus and decision making. What was your experience? Mm hmm. Well, you know, one of the strengths I think that I bring and other lawyers bring to the boardroom is that we have developed a skill of consensus building. That is something that, you know, we've had to do in our role to be effective. And, you know, oftentimes there's a bias against having a lawyer on a board because they think, oh, we've got a general counsel, we've got outside counsel, we don't need another lawyer. But I want to debunk that myth because I do think that the background of being a lawyer allows you to really be a person in there that's going to be a consensus builder. You know, my strategy has always been, like I mentioned, I'm a listener. So I try to figure out what is everybody trying to achieve? And this is where the lawyer hat comes in. Like, what is the end goal? Because ultimately, usually there's a common end goal. And everyone's coming at it from a different perspective or a different lens. And so what, you know, what are the different lenses? What are the different perspectives? And how can we find a solution that really achieves everybody's goals in a way that makes the most sense for the company? That's where, you know, having, again, you know, discussions, understanding people, personalities and also understanding people. You know, I think being a Latina, to be honest, you know, one of the skills I've had to, you know, learn over the years is, you know, really reading a room and understanding, you know, being the one that's on the outside, like understanding different personalities and how people react and how people are motivated. And so understanding people, their communication styles, how they'll, you know, listen, how they will. They used to call them soft skills, but I think their strategic skills are very important. A hundred percent. You just mentioned something about myths, specifically around having counsel, having a seat on the board, right? Yeah. What other myths should folks out there that are listening to this podcast realize? There's a myth that a lawyer is risk averse and will be difficult to work with because they just care about minimizing risk. And I believe that to have ascended to the role of general counsel at a company, you have had to manage through that. You know, you can't be an effective general counsel if you haven't learned how to manage risk. You haven't learned how to be a member of the C-suite. And as a member of the C-suite, the other benefit is that you have sat alongside the CEO and the CFO for every single strategic decision at the company because you have a role in providing input and how that's going to trickle down through different parts of the organization. And the business landscape has changed over the last two decades. Understanding the regulatory hurdles, I mean, we just saw just in the papers this week how the EU is clamping down on the tech companies and costing them billions or maybe not being able to even market in those countries. And so as a lawyer, understanding that complexity as you're putting together your strategy is really critical and an important voice in board conversations. Yeah, 100 percent, Trish. I'm going to turn the corner here and talk about more of women sitting on the board and even those that might be considering that as a future opportunity. One of the most recent studies that I found through 50-50 stated that in late December during their fourth quarter findings that women hold about 29.4 percent of the seats on a board. You also researched what you show on your website, and I also confirmed that further research indicates that approximately one percent of Latinas sit on corporate boards. Can you share a pivotal moment or experience that shaped your journey as a Latina to the boardroom? Yes, it was, you know, I was wrapping up my time at Looker and thinking about, you know, what I want to do next, and I came across some of this data of the number of women on boards and then the statistic around Latinas on boards. And it was just shocking to me to see how underrepresented we were in leadership and particularly the boardroom, particularly since we're the largest growing demographic in this country. I mean, 20 percent of the country is Latino. In California, we're 40 percent of the population, and yet we hold, you know, less than two percent of the seats on the board. I just reflected on my career and thought, well, I have the experience. You know, I just, I knew, especially having sat in boardrooms, that I had the requisite experience and knowledge to be on a board. I knew that I could provide a lot of value to a board, and so it was more just realizing that I could change that statistic as well as amplify, normalize, you know, for other women and other Latinas that we do deserve a seat at the table. Oftentimes, as women, one of the things I see over and over again is that, you know, we wait for permission. We wait to be asked. You don't see that quite as often with men. They have more confidence in their skills and abilities and don't have to be perfect before they jump into roles that are uncomfortable. And we, as women, tend to want to be perfect and want to have checked all the boxes before we do that. I think normalizing that, one, we belong there, and number two, you know, you don't have to have checked all the boxes. Probably more than likely, you know, highly qualified before you even recognize it yourself. Yeah, I talked to a client earlier today, and she's looking to make that lead from the C-suite to the board. She hesitated, and I asked her, what's your hesitation? I'm hearing it. And so she was taken aback, and she just said, you know, I'm trying to check all the boxes. And I said, what makes you think you haven't? She's just brilliant, fascinating background, very intelligent, highly intelligent woman, very capable. Like you said, we want to make sure that everything's perfect. And men do have a different viewpoint. You know, we'll stick our toe in the water, and they'll just jump in. They'll jump right in. You know, and it's, you know, the way we were raised, you know, culturally. I mean, that's how, you know, as little boys are jumping in or making mistakes or, you know, and we were, you know, culturally trained to be, follow the rules, be respectful, you know, like, so it's just ingrained in us. So I think we have to give ourselves grace of why we show up that way, but notice that we are showing up that way. Absolutely. Something came to mind that we want to see the change and we want to make a difference. We need to get involved, right? Yeah. And, you know, one of the reasons that I wrote my book was because I wanted to amplify Latinas in leadership. I wanted to just be more visible because I think that if we're not advocating, if we're not being visible, if we're not talking about some of these things, you know, I think change is slow and it's hard. And so we have to normalize a lot of these conversations. Absolutely. And don't be afraid, for those who are listening, those Latinas or just women in general, don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask the questions and have the conversation, because when we engage and we're having conversations, that's where we get those aha moments. And that's where we open the doors for more possibility. Yeah. I love our conversations, Trish. Yeah, it's, yeah, I think taking those steps and practicing. And the other thing that I've also seen throughout my career, and this has had to be a muscle that I had to develop, was not being afraid of rejection or failure. I think that, you know, we, at least I was, like, you know, I had to get straight A's, be perfect, do all the things. And so failure, rejection, really, it hit home, it hit personally. And really the biggest growth is during failure. And the biggest aha moments are when you're learning from mistakes. Just recognizing that taking risks and that you'll navigate through failure and disappointment is something we also have to practice. Yeah, but it also makes us resilient. Yeah, of course, it does. Yeah, absolutely. And it gives us character. Yeah, fascinating. Yeah, it's fascinating how these opportunities can catalyze transformational journeys. What advice would you give to women who are listening to this podcast and looking to transition from senior leader roles to the boardroom? A couple of things. One is, make sure that you, in your career trajectory, that you've got operational experience under your belt. And you have a P&L under your belt. You have something that adds, is something that will be of value to a board. Really thinking about how, getting the experience, and then how you're going to be positioning that experience when you are talking to folks about a potential board seat. And the second piece of advice is, you hear this all the time, and I'm going to say it again because I think it's true, is that your network is gold. Getting a board seat, I would say 9 out of 10 times, it's your network. That's going to get you that board seat. Whether it's someone you know, someone who's going to introduce you to somebody, or even someone's going to introduce you to that board recruiter. Continuously building and nurturing your relationships over time. If you have the opportunity in your operational role to present to the board and try to start developing relationships with board members at your existing company, that's important because those board members have pipeline to other potential board seats. So, you know, just really invest in relationships with members of the C-suite, venture capital, capitalists, board members, professional firms like accounting firms or outside counsel. All of those are potential places where a board opportunity may arise. Wise words for sure. Pat, as we wrap this up, what do you envision for the future of women in boardrooms? I want more of them in there. Yeah, that would be great. You know, I think we have a long way to go still. You know, we're making progress. I think the statistics, especially for women on boards, is going up. I think women of color is not advancing as quickly. And in particular, Latinas on boards, it's not moving at all. Why do you think that is? That's such a great question. I actually spent a lot of time trying to think about it. Part of it, I mean, it's a, it starts from the beginning. You know, it starts from, you know, Latinas believing that they belong in these spaces. And so from elementary school to high school to college to, you know, degrees, you're creating the pipeline. In order to get a board seat, you need to have had years of experience. And so that takes time. And so our numbers have been low from the beginning. And you see a lot of leakage of that in that funnel as you're going up for a variety of reasons. Culturally, we tend to be more humble. We tend to be, you know, the team player. We don't want to brag. We don't maybe see ourselves in that role. So by changing some of those myths, we're also the caretakers. Culturally, we tend to be the ones that are taking care of our children and our elderly parents. So we have a hard time juggling it all and asking for help. And, you know, there's just a lot of things that at the intersectionality of gender and ethnicity that add additional roadblocks into ascending into those positions that give you the qualifications to sit on a board. So I think it's supporting women along the whole path and also providing culturally relevant leadership development, because the lived experience of a Latina, especially a first generation Latina, it's very different than others. I think normalizing that lived experience is important. As a Latina, and I wish I would have known more about the support we had when I was in school, the varying roles and where youth can get involved and sit on council in high school, even in junior high school. And I think that those are really great ages to help them grow their leadership legs when they become a part of these programs, even if they decide to go to a junior college or university. These schools also, for people that want to lead and be a president of council, I think that these are amazing ways for our younger future leaders to really develop themselves. What are your thoughts around that? Oh, 100 percent. And I also wish I had done more of that myself as I was coming up through the ranks. And, you know, being in a place that supports you and your lived experience and celebrates you and normalizes all the interesting things about your family and your culture is really important, being around people with similar lived experiences. As we mentioned, I think Latinas in leadership are less than 2 percent. And so as you keep going up the ranks, there's less and less of you that look like you and that have lived experiences like you. And so when you're in those spaces, it feels quite lonely. So it's important to then go back and be in external organizations where you can just share some of the experiences you're having so you can be validated for some of the challenges you might be facing or even just be supported and bent and just like, yeah, this was really hard. This happened to me. And I remember the first identity organization that I joined was actually a women's organization. Sitting in a room, I went to a conference and I sat in a room with, I think it was like 2,000 women. It was the first time I had just been surrounded just by women. And it was so empowering. And I realized, wow, the struggles that I deal with on a day-to-day basis are the same things thousands of other women are doing. And so it's just less lonely and you get other people's tips and strategies and you get validated. You just feel seen like, oh, OK, yeah, you get interrupted. So do I. OK, so I'm not imagining this. It is reality. Yeah, yeah. I'm not making it up in my mind. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Trish, once again, I mean, you just being a part of these podcasts adds so much value and thank you for sharing your journey, your expertise and your leadership with us. Thank you for having me. To learn more about Trisha and her endeavors, log on to her website at trishatim.com. That's Trisha, T-R-I-C-H-I-A-T-I-M-M dot com. That's it for this episode of Coach Anonymous presents podcast. If you're interested in being a guest or you're a subject matter expert, please go to my website www.epiphanyconsultingsolutions.com and submit your request on the let's chat link. You can also find me on LinkedIn under Laura Perez Earhart or my website, Epiphany Consulting Solutions. We hope the content and conversation will give sparks of inspiration. If you love and learn from the show, pay it forward and share my podcast with your colleagues and friends. I'm Laura Perez Earhart. Until next time, stay safe and live well.
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