The Reflective Practitioner Podcast Ep. 1: Post-Pandemic Early Literacy Strategies

Educators are recognizing the adverse impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on early childhood literacy. Some teachers have successfully supported their students in making significant growth with their literacy skills. One teacher, Ms. M, used a reading curriculum focused on decoding and understanding words to build a strong foundation for reading. This shift in instructional practices has been beneficial for students. Additionally, there have been systemic changes in the district, such as the use of a new assessment program called Dibbles, which provides specific results for each child and generates reports with suggestions for support. These changes have helped students despite the challenges they faced during the pandemic. All right, greetings everyone and welcome to the Reflective Practitioner Podcast, where we encourage educators to reflect on their practice by sharing stories and encouragement from the front lines. I am Latanya Southern, your host. Today we're going to take a look at early childhood literacy. Now when we say early childhood literacy, we're talking about grades kindergarten through second grade. Today educators across the nation have rung the bell on the adverse effect of the COVID-19 pandemic on our youngest readers. Even today, more than five years after the first wave of classroom shutdown, the impact can still be seen in the classroom. These young scholars are coming to the classroom struggling with foundational reading skills more than ever. Some would say there's no hope for them. Still, we found a group of educators who, despite the learning disruptions of the pandemic, were able to support their students in making significant growth with their literacy skills. One of those teachers is with us today. In the year following the COVID-19 shutdown in her district, our guest, Ms. M, also taught in the classroom that year. Ms. M supported her school's second grade students' eye-ready reading achievement with 50% of second grade students at her school meeting their annual stretch growth measurement and 67% of students improving their grade level placement on the assessment. That's impressive. She is a career changer who worked as a professional writer, but transitioned to teaching. Since then, she has secured her place as a well-respected teacher leader, holding various building leadership positions throughout her career. She says her commitment to excellence drives her to continually seek ways to inspire and support both students and staff. Please welcome Ms. M. Hey. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Ms. M, I'm so happy to have you here. How is the school year going for you so far? You know, we're having a really great school year. The kids are making a lot of progress, particularly with Letsia, one of our reading intervention programs for the county. And we're just getting the kids fired up for reading. We've got a couple book clubs going for the primary and for the intermediate. So, I mean, I couldn't be happier. It's going great. Excellent. Excellent. So, I definitely appreciate and thank you for spending time with us today. So, we're not going to belabor this conversation too long, but we're going to jump right into the meat of talking about how we support our youngest readers with their literacy. So, now, let's just think about this for a bit, Ms. M. It's been two years since the 2022-2023 school year when students returned for a full-year school session post-COVID. How have things changed for you or stayed the same regarding your early literacy instructional practices? Okay. Well, sure. So, just wanted to set a little foundation of what it was like prior to the pandemic for me. So, before the pandemic, myself, as well as the teachers that I coach and lead, we predominantly used the balanced literacy model, which was like the standard for most of my career in education, right? And so, for those who maybe aren't familiar, balanced literacy, it emphasizes comprehension and fluency. So, really quickly, what that looked like was we spent about five minutes doing what's called word work. So, maybe I'll be teaching the kids about digraphs, like the P-H sound, the W-H lettering colloquial sound it makes. And so, we would just quickly go through a few words, and then we would do some decodable readers together. And then, after that, the kids predominantly practiced different skills, like making connections, making predictions, making inferences. Sure, like things like comprehension things. Right. So, and that was good. It wasn't bad. They'd enjoy doing that, because I love talking to the kids about the story. But what we were finding, or what I found, and what has been found, I believe, by the county, is that kids, they can't get to that point where they're making those inferences and connections and getting into those deep discussions about the story if they're not able to read the words and understand what they read. Right. And so, I don't know if you've ever heard of word calling, but that is something where a student, a child is able to, like, read the words, and they don't really understand what they're reading. And so, I believe that, so that's why I feel after the pandemic, we were already starting to shift to those kinds of reading. But especially after the pandemic, we really just officially made that shift in our county. And so, what changed for me, as well as the teachers that I work with, is that we began using a really great reading curriculum. And so, that teaches, like, decoding, which is like looking at words, breaking them down, reading them to make sense of them, to understand what they say, and a lot of encoding, like translating spoken words into, like, written symbols. And so, anyhow, with what we're doing now, I shouldn't say new, but it's not really new, it's just a different, like, focus. We're focusing more on, like, using decodable text to build foundational skills, reading, breaking down, understanding words. And once we get that more strong base for reading, then it's like, okay, now we're going to work more on that comprehension and those writing skills. But you really, you have to, so now I feel like we're setting a stronger foundation than we did in the past. Right. You know, science, well, there's research that states that if students have a really strong foundational set of skills by the end of first grade, with their phonics and phonemic awareness, if they can be on grade level or above with those skills at the end of first grade, they will continue to be on or above grade level, and they'll articulate up through the other following grades. And so, that shift over to the science of reading for the district has been, not just the district, but the state, because now there's a state mandate to transition over to the science of reading. So, I definitely understand that balanced literacy piece, because that was a part of my practice as a teacher, as well when I used to teach little people to read. But there were always this small group of students that just did not get it. So, I definitely, definitely see that shift as well, and I appreciate the way that you were able to articulate that and break that down for our listeners. Sure, of course. You see that you saw this shift in how you teach reading. Now, the focus is not merely on the comprehension, or the shift has been moved back more towards phonemes and phonemic awareness in the early grades before you begin to really dig into the comprehension piece. So, now that you have articulated what has shifted from before the pandemic to after the pandemic, can you think about any other systemic changes in your district to early literacy instruction that have helped students move forward, despite some of the challenges that they may have faced when they returned from the pandemic? Yes. So, one of the biggest changes that I saw happen is that prior to the pandemic, we used what was called a DRA. And so, every quarter, the students, they would work with us throughout the quarter for reading, our level readers, the small group process like I talked about. And then we would sit one-on-one with children and have them read a text that they had never read before. And so, if they received a certain accuracy score and a certain comprehension score, then they would get a level. And they would keep going up and up and up these levels until they got to what we call the frustration point. And so, then we'd say, okay, so I might have a student that was a DRA level 16. And by the end of first grade, I believe it was 16. I believe it's the end of second grade. I think it's been a while. I think it was 20... 20.4, 20.8. Yeah, I think it was 20... Yeah. It's been so many years, I feel like, now, because we've stopped completely during the pandemic. So, we've shifted a little bit in the last, like, three or four. But anyhow, so we shifted away from that to another assessment or diagnostic program called Dibbles. Right. And it's by a company called Amplify. And initially, I was a little nervous. I've been doing DRAs for most of my career and teaching people how to do DRAs for most of my career. So, I was a little bit nervous, but I really like that we're doing Dibbles now because it gives, like, very specific results for each child. And sometimes, what we used to find with the DRAs is we had the same book. And so, sometimes, the point was for the child to have a story they hadn't heard before. But sometimes, they might remember the story because if we did a Level 8 in the fall and the student didn't pass the Level 8 DRA, we'd have that same Level 8 book again at times. And so, sometimes, the kids will remember the story or they might get lucky. But Dibbles is not like that. Dibbles is broken up into multiple areas. It tests how the students are doing with, like, nonsense words. So, words that are, like, make-believe that they wouldn't normally see if they're able to sound those out. It gives real words. How fast are they able to read these high-frequency words? And it does still have a piece where they have to read a passage. And so, I love that it puts all these pieces together. And so, it gives you a better idea of, like, where the student is struggling, what area. And then, what I like even more about this program is that it generates a report. And the report gives suggestions of things to help the students. So, I'm able to, like, not just use my own, like, brilliant teacher brains, but I also have, like, a supplemental resource that I used to not have with DRAs. So, DRAs, after I looked at the results, I had to figure everything out. Like, what am I going to do to support this child? So, it's just, like, another tool. That is one change I like. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I know you were talking, and I guess this all happens with the shift and the focus. So, the DRA, from when I used to do the DRA, the DRA primarily looked at comprehension skills, whereas DIBLS is really looking at reading fluency. Right. And using fluency as a measurement of the student's foundational skills. Is that accurate? I would say that, yes. Okay. It's also checking their foundation just to see what can they do with the words that are on the paper. Right. Getting an understanding of, like, the story and what happened. Like, it goes really deep. Okay. Excellent. And then, in your district, are they using any type of digital interventions? Oh, yes. So, our students, are you all a one-to-one district, or are students sharing devices? Like, what does that look like? Oh, no. So, that was one thing. One of the few things, great, that came out of the pandemic is that after the pandemic, or during the pandemic, we were able to get devices for every child. And since the pandemic, that continues to be a thing in our county. So, every child has a Chromebook. At one point, there were iPads, but no, we all have Chromebooks now. And so, all the children have access. Let's see here. In K1 and 2, I believe that's in 3 as well, they have access to an intervention program called Lexia. Okay. And Lexia is wonderful because Lexia was initially only used by our special education students, right? And we saw that the special education students were making it. We like the program. It's very user-friendly. It's got little games. But it helps students build up their reading. And so, we started using that with our primary children. And so, that was one shift. Prior to that, we'd mostly been using iReady. And iReady is another reading intervention program. It's still very good. And we do use it to, like, as a diagnostic. Like, we do a diagnostic test three times a year to mark kids' progress. But I really, Lexia is great because, again, it's like Dibbles. It gives a lot of very, like, it tailors information to that specific child, provides a report. And so, one thing that's been really useful to us is when we, after we do these assessments of our students, we look across, we think of, we take our anecdotal notes as well as the data gathered from these three softwares or the digital resources. So, Dibbles, Lexia, and iReady. And so, we compare that to what we actually as teachers see. And then, we have conversations about how to help our students. I like it. Awesome. Awesome. Definitely some shifts back from when I used to teach in Stone Age. Me too. So, now that you've had these experiences and you have moved away from that year, I want you to go back to the beginning of that school year. That was the first year from when you turned back because you have had other experiences of attitude. What do you know now about teaching early literacy that you wish you knew that August of 2022 when that first school year opened? Looking back, I really wish that I understood the importance of explicitly teaching those foundational skills. The awareness, the systemic phonics, you know, just right from the start. I was still transitioning at that time away from balanced literacy into science of reading. So, it was a little bit of a learning curve. It was new for me. So, it was a little bit of a learning curve. But now, I just see that it's really critical, again, just to focus on like the decoding and encoding to build that really strong foundation for reading. And also, it's important to have... I mean, I've always had structured routines, but I didn't necessarily have a structured routine for phonics teaching. And so, that's what our, excuse me, really great reading, it gives us. It gives us like really structured routines. It even gives us kits that we use to help teach phonics. So, I really wish I had been doing that before 2022, like really more phonics, yeah. I'm going to throw you a curveball and see how you... Oh, boy. I don't know. One of the things that came from the research when we talked to groups of teachers were some of the soft skills or some of the not necessarily academic-related things that supported students with their instruction and their achievements. So, there were things that teachers talked about students when they came back to the classroom. They had a lot of challenges with self-regulation, a lot of challenges, some of them were very immature, students having issues with their fine motor skills, and especially our kindergarten teachers talked about students who weren't potty trained. Oh, my goodness. So, there's a number of things they felt that they had to make some shifts there in how they delivered instruction in order for students to be able to access the curriculum. So, can you think of ways in which I know you were, you know, you supported the different classes and we're talking about second grade, but just think about your building because I know you're a building leader and you supported the teachers in the building. Think about some of the ways that they may have struggled in some of these areas and how you supported teachers or how you, when you were teaching, had to make any shifts in the way that you delivered instruction based off of that. Did you see that as well when your kids came back? Yes, and I'll say I saw that not only as an educator but even as a parent. I have a daughter and one of the things that, she was maybe two or three when the pandemic started, but she wasn't in student school. She was in daycare and she had been learning a lot of things. And while we were home, I noticed that she started regressing in some of her social, some of even like her fine motor skills. She was starting to learn how to eat with like a fork and a spoon while she was in daycare, like in pre-K-3. And then at home, she started back eating with her hands, trying to pull off a micro, you know, just things like that and not wanting to read. So, I mean, I did notice that just with her while she was out of school. And when our students returned, yes, there was definitely a difference. A lot of the self-regulation, we see a lot more crying, a lot more outbursts, things like that. And, you know, what really saddens me a bit is the way some of the students relate to one another was really challenging because they've been home, just, you know, siblings. Right. You know, school's about more than just academics. You learn how to be a person, how to deal and be part of a community and deal with adversity and all these sorts of things. So, one of the things that we really focused on, of course, like all of the wonderful reading instructional things, but we did sit down with our teachers and talk about the importance of like FDL and really just like building a safe place, a safe community where students know that it's like some of the things that you think they should already know that they should know. Right. Or whatever. They don't. Just know they're not doing it to upset you or just because they don't care. They don't know. They need a little more time. So, a lot of FDL, a lot of modeling, correct behaviors, a lot of giving students breaks. And then, too, we've been working with our teachers on incorporating technology. I don't know if you are – I'm sure you're familiar with Kahoot. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So, that was something we used a lot. It's like a website and students are able to respond on their devices. Absolutely. Yes. That's right. We used Kahoot in our staff meetings. It's fun. We compete against each other. Absolutely. Answer the fastest. So, we were telling – we've been teaching our – or encouraging our teachers not to shy away from technology, like using a smart – because our kids are on tablets. They're on computers. They were literally on them for almost two years. Even when we came back from the pandemic, they still – we were hybrid. Some of our kids were still on them. Right. So, just trying to pull that technology piece in and just being open to it. And, again, letting the kids do some interacting with their devices. It's okay. Yeah. I mean, books in hands are the best, but technology, you know, tablets in hands, Chromebooks in hands, those are okay, too, used in the right way. Absolutely. Absolutely. And having that balance, that was something that teachers did report as well who were part of the research. They really appreciated being able to have some of those digital resources. So, similar to what we talked about before, but then also being able to use them in creative ways to engage the students, not just to deliver instruction, but engage the students and get them excited. These are kids who, you know, they had cell phones in their hands. Yes. They had cell phones in their hands, but they were drinking out of their sippy cups at the same time. Yes. So, when they come into the classroom, we absolutely have to make sure that we incorporate that. But old school, kindergarten, first grade teachers still said, you must have pencils and books. Right. So, helping. It's both, though. It's got to be both. It's about the world. Right. Right. I mean, I still learned personally, but I remember when I was growing up, I was told, you're not going to learn in person. Everything is going to be written in person. You're not going to be able to read when you grow up. You're not going to be able to read what people write. And now, as an adult, the majority of what we write is print or type. Yes. So, the world that, you know, we have to try to do the best we can to prepare the children for the world as it is now, not necessarily the world that we grew up in. Right. When I was four years ago, that was true. Everything was written, you know, not everything, but many things were written by hand. But now, a lot of things are on screen. Yeah. Interestingly enough, the Library of Congress has sent out a clarion call to find people who can read in cursive. Oh. But now, it's considered a special program. Oh, that's fun. Anybody in third year? In third year, come to the Library of Congress and help us transcribe some of this cursive writing that many of our people don't know how to read. Yes. That was in our lifetime. So, it's very interesting. I'm now considering a third job. But… Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! So, we have a number of teachers who are coming to the classroom who are novice teachers. Many of them, not necessarily having had an educational background, come to school. And so, they need a different level of support. And so, I love the fact that you said you had to pull teachers back and really show support them with understanding the importance of social-emotional learning, creating community, ensuring that you pull back a little bit because if they don't have the foundational learning piece, just being able to access the curriculum, whatever gives them curriculum-wise, isn't going to stick. And so, I want you to think about either those novice teachers at that point or the ones that we have now because think about the ones in your building who teach kindergarten, first and second grade. What advice would you give them? And when I say novice, I mean teachers who have years or less of experience, right? What advice would you give them if they're struggling with supporting students in these early elementary grades with teaching literacy specifically? And then on the flip side, you have veteran teachers that are still in the classroom. What advice would you give to them? Okay. So, I'll start off with the novice teachers because though I work with both, you know, I do predominantly work with a lot of new teachers. And as a former career changer, I don't think it got any more novice than a person coming in from being a writer to becoming a teacher. Like, my only experience before I started teaching was being a student myself. And it's very different when you're the teacher than when you're the student. It's a whole different experience. So, I would say for novice teachers, one of the things that I tell them to focus on is to make sure you're focusing on, like, progress over perfection. Because, you know, sometimes new teachers come in and they're, like, and they're on fire, which is great. But, okay, you know, all my kids are going to be on or above grade level. Everyone's going to just, like, soar. And then when that doesn't always happen, which, you know, most likely it's not, it's But it may not always happen. Right. Just remember that learning to read is gradual. And it takes time. And so, it's really important to track the kid's progress, like, systemically. Maybe keeping a simple data sheet with their baseline score up to, like, keeping it, like, where they are. So, you can see, like, over time. Because it's very rare that you have a child that makes, like, no progress whatsoever. Now, that's a different story. But almost all of our students, they make progress. It's just, you have, just like when you're, you know, making progress in your own life, losing weight or trying to, whatever. You may not, like, it's a bunch of little steps. And when you look over time, you're, like, oh, I have come a long way. But when you're reading, you don't see it. And so, I think that that's really important. I didn't do that when I first was teaching. I just looked at scores. Oh. But when I actually looked at it over time, and I, like, had it recorded, like, it literally recorded. Like, I just had a little notebook where I would just have all my kids' names. And I would just have how they were doing. That was helpful. So, tracking it. And during... So, the data helped you. Yes. Yes, baby. I love data. I love data. Now that I understand what to do with it. Because at first, it's just a bunch of numbers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Like, it actually can help me to be a better educator. Because I can use this data. And even if I don't know what to do with it, which as a novice teacher, you may not know what to do with it. Or if you have a reading leader in your building. And the thing is, even if you don't have an official reading leader, there's someone who's a reading leader, even if that's not their title. And some reading sage in the building. Oh. Like, oh, this person. Yes. And I will say, you know, all this time that I've been in the county, teachers, they want, like, they're teachers for a reason. They want to help. That's why we became teachers. We want to help people, children, but also other adults, even. Yes, absolutely. Things. But I've never had the experience where I didn't know something, I went to a teacher for help. And if they didn't know, they'd say, well, I don't know, but Miss Gordon or Mr. Jones, you know, he helped me when I didn't know about focus groups. You know, that sort of thing. Yes. And so that was something, too, I wanted to mention, is like, you know, not being afraid of what you don't know. Because sometimes we get so scared that, oh, I'm new already. I should know. I should know all this. And that's something I want the new teachers. I tell them, throw that out of your vocabulary. I should know all this. You know what you know. And you're a lifelong learner. Right. It means that you're learning. Just like our kids don't know everything. And we tell them it's OK. And that's OK. It's OK for us, too. Yes. It's also really important to keep your lesson plans, like, focused and manageable. Sometimes with novice teachers, we get really excited. Like, we take classes. We talk to people. We read articles. We listen to podcasts. We read all these, like, wonderful things. We want to do it all at one time. Right. And it's overwhelming to you. It's overwhelming to the children. So just not trying to cram every or too much things into one session. It can diminish the effectiveness of your teaching. So just, you know, try things slowly. And like I said, again, don't hesitate to reach out for support. In addition to the reading stage, as you mentioned, we have a really, really excellent reading department. Now, I like that. Right. I'm still in my 16th year. And I still – I reached out to a member of the reading department because I needed some professional development on – You mean like the district-level reading department? Yes. Yes. I reached – yep. I reached out to them. We were having a reading meeting. And they were talking about something with focus groups. And I didn't understand. So I just – I got up. And I went to the back, where one of the reading district leaders was. And I said, look, I don't understand this. Can you come by? And she said, oh, yeah. And so she came. And I didn't know there was a teacher. They're just up in the sky somewhere. Like, the reading department people, they're not real. You can't talk to them and touch them. They're real people. And they want to come and help. So – Because guess what? They were teachers, too. Yes. Absolutely. Right. Right. So, yeah. So those are just a few things that are – I think were helpful to novice teachers. Okay. Now, veteran teachers next, yeah? Mm-hmm. Okay. So, for our veteran teachers, I think that sometimes people have this idea that, oh, veteran teachers are just – they're stuck in their ways, and they don't want to change. And I don't feel that that's always the case. I think that sometimes the veteran teacher – because I'm one – that it doesn't feel good when something new comes out. And it feels like, you know, I've been doing something that's been – it's worked for a lot of my students. And now you're telling me that, like, oh, it doesn't work. You need to do this brand-new thing. And what you know doesn't matter. And it's not – and that's not what's happening. I think with the science of reading, at least, I can say a lot – like, it's still – the science of reading is more like learning how the brain learns how to read. Mm-hmm. So, it's not necessarily throwing out all those wonderful things that us veteran teachers have been doing for years. Like, I still really love working with kids on comprehension. I just know that I need to do more than five minutes of word work. I need to have, like, more explicit phonemic instructions. So, I still do a lot of my groups similar. And so, just being open to, like, new research and just adapting – not just throwing everything out, but adapting your messages – excuse me, not your messages, your methods, you know, to help the students, to better serve them, to help our readers. And, of course, always building those – continuing to build those strong relationships with our students. That kind of goes back into that SEL, but it's still important because a child is not going to want to take chances. They're not going to trust you with different things of reading if they – if you don't have a relationship with them. So, just remembering to continue to do that and collaborating with your colleagues and reflecting on your practice. And then I'll say for all teachers – novice, veteran, mod, or medium, whatever – teachers everywhere in between that self-care is really important and just remembering that, like, this is like – it's not a – it's not a sprint. Like, teaching kids how to read, it's a marathon. It's a long – it's a long process, and it's good to, like, just recharge, maintain your energy. And a lot of how I do that is really by just interacting and talking with my colleagues, like, talking about what's going on in class, but also just knowing when to just stop, close my laptop, and just spend time with my family or, like, doing the things that I enjoy outside of just myself as an educator, just taking that time. So, those are just some suggestions. That is amazing advice, particularly that piece on self-care because in talking about social-emotional learning for our students, finding ways to help them self-regulate, we have to do the same thing for ourselves as adults. You know, people use the – use the example of putting the mask on before you help someone else. It seems, like, trite, and it seems, like, overused, but it's definitely, definitely true. So, I appreciate and thank you for that advice. And before we finish, I wanted to find out, is there anything else you think our listeners should know about the best ways to help young students read? You talked about the science of reading. You talked about shifting your own practice and sharing your own philosophy. So, you had to be flexible, and you had to be ready to pivot. Yeah. As the pandemic forced us all to pivot, you talked about being – keeping things in routine for young people, keeping structure, and ensuring that we really focus on those foundational skills for little ones before we move to comprehension. Not that comprehension isn't important, but making sure that we focus on the foundational skills. And you talked a lot about your passion and wanting to ensure students can read. What other things would you want – like, if you have one thing you wanted someone to remember about this conversation moving forward that would be your thing, what would that be? Right. No, I'm the only one. Like, there's so many. It's risky now, but I understand what you mean. Name them all. Name them all. I'm going to keep it short. No. Just a couple of quick – a couple of quick things. Just not to make assumptions about our students. I know that when I first started teaching, I thought that if a child knows the alphabet, then they can read. They can, like, just sound out words. But what I've discovered is that many children, my own child included, we do learn the alphabet song, but it's just a song. We don't necessarily – we don't say the sounds of, you know, A, B, C. We don't say what sound it is. And some of our children are not – and I'm, again, speaking about our little ones. Though they may know the alphabet, I found that a lot of my little ones weren't able to actually identify the letter. So, then they say A, B, C, D, and then I just point to a B and say, what letter is this? And they don't know. And so, if you don't start off there – so, again, I just – Like rainbow. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. And so, that's just one thing. I would think, especially, like, early readers, just making sure that, like, what they know. And that's where those assessments come in and why we do them because it can help identify that area. And, of course, just, like, patience and just trying to be patient and letting the students know it's okay to make mistakes. And then one more thing, too. I just, you know, I leave this part out. I can't believe I left this out as a parent. But working with parents. Yes. Because parents, they are – we can't do it all at school. Like, our children spend some of their more time with us, educators, than their own parents. But their parents have the biggest influence. So, trying to get parents on board with what we're doing, it really makes a difference. And a lot of times, my students – I can see students making more progress when their parents are on the same page as me than students – than parents who aren't. So, that's really important, too, just that school-home connection. So, consider that, too. Yes. Thank you. And that was something else that came up in the research. So – Yes. Right. Yes. Well, once again, Ms. M, we really thank you. I thank you. You're welcome. For taking time out to share your Nuggets with our audience. I think it's really important for teachers to hear from teachers. Yes. Not necessarily from administrators who used to teach years ago. Right. But teachers want to hear from their peers. Teachers want to hear from the people that are doing the work. And you are absolutely, positively doing the work and simultaneously supporting the work. Yes. Right. How can you – my thing is, you can't teach – I don't teach somewhere and tell someone to do something I wouldn't do myself. Absolutely not. And so, I do feel – yes, I'm a teacher leader. But, you know, first word in that is teacher. I'm always going to be a teacher. Yes. Absolutely. Thank you. And thank you so much for your time, for your talent, and for everything that you have. And I'm sure your principal is proud of you and really, really values you. So, thank you so much for being a part of our show today. Oh, you're very welcome. Thank you for having me. You're welcome.